 For more videos on people's struggles, please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Hello and welcome to People's Dispatch. Today, we're joined by Alexis Benos, who's with the People's Health Movement as well as the Aristotle Department of Medicine at Aristotle University of Tesserniki. And we're going to be talking about the COVID-19 situation in Europe right now. So over the past few weeks, we do know that the COVID-19 number of cases has definitely searched. In fact, the WHO report from November 10th says that there's been a substantial increase in cases. The region saw over half the cases across the world and nearly half the new deaths. And if we look at yesterday's numbers, that is Saturday, at least seven of the 10 top countries which have recorded the maximum number of cases are from Europe. So thank you so much for joining us. And it is very difficult to sort of talk about Europe as one block. Of course, there are a lot of geographical, climatic variations, variations in responses as well. But maybe could you quickly take us through any patterns you see in this new spike across the region? First of all, I want to go back on the first wave of the pandemic. It is interesting to keep that. The pandemic came, the transmission in Europe was done in a way through the root of silk. So it came from China with people, especially business people working in China and then in Northern Italy. And then it went to UK and France and so on and so on. So in the beginning, actually, it was said that perhaps it's a new pandemic which is not looking at the social differences because it was okay. So this is the first point that we have to keep in mind. Secondly, what happened in Europe actually very quickly and in Italy, about all Europe also, is that we have seen that no, it's not a pandemic for all. It is as all pandemics and all diseases actually, it has a very, very specific social class gradient which means the lower classes are the big victims, both in morbidity but in mortality also. So this is one point. The second is that, which is unfortunately is going on for all Europe, is that as you know, we had the last 30 years, the neoliberal policies all across Europe. Right. But emphasis here, Europe was the opposite, let's say, from the United States because we had a tradition of welfare states and so on after the Second World War. But after the 98s, starting from UK actually, in Thatcher, all over Europe's domination. We have the domination of neoliberalism which means that the dismantlement of the health services, so the public health service, all over Europe. So we are going again back on March, where we have the incoming of the pandemic. And all over Europe, we had problems of the public health systems because they were dismantled due to all this, the policies of restriction of the public health and so on and so on. So, and this was a crisis that we have seen very tragically, if you remember, in Italy and Spain and France where the people dying outside of the hospital because there were no space, no personnel, no organization, nothing. So this was the same goes for UK actually also, which has also UK, for us working in public health and primary care, UK was the star because of the NHS and all this tradition after 1948 and so on. But also UK, in UK the system is really hit by the so long-standing neoliberal policies which gone actually with both parties there and in other countries also it's the same thing. I mean, the social democrats went unfortunately in the same neoliberal path. So we had that. So it was a shock of course, this because all the societies were unprepared, has driven to the lockdown solutions, which is a solution if you don't have done anything before. So okay, you have to go to lockdown. So this was a big issue and we started then all over Europe, of course, speaking about, you see, we need public health services. We need to set up both public health services, which mean hospitals and for care, but also we need to set up and to enforce the services of public health, which means surveillance, epidemiology, in order to understand what is happening with this pandemic, where it is, is it there, locally, professionally, age-wise and so on and so on, which is not happening. So we said at this point and we were a bit optimistic that okay, this is a good example, the pandemic and its results in the society, it's a good example of the limits of the capitalistic way of production of organization and so on and so on. So it's a good starting point to speak about health, social rights, how can we work for health in a society, working for the health of the population and not for the profit of some. So this was the first. Now we are coming today and it is, this is the very sad, I think, that instead of pushing some more, let's call them socialist policies towards health and health services and so on, in all Europe, the governments didn't care about that. They didn't do anything about the public health services and actually they used the pandemic crisis as an opportunity to expand the private sector in all countries also. For example, which is an aberrant issue in the UK, they have outsourced the surveillance system. You mean it's outsourced in private companies, in different private companies, which every company has its own system of recording, you know. So this is, for epidemiology and public health, is a nonsense because you cannot have a homogenized system of data that you can, you know, see what is happening and evaluate and inference or that we have to do that or that or the other. So this is one thing. Here in Greece, the government said that they are going to use the intensive care unit beds because Greece is the lowest in the European Union in rates with beds per population. So they said, okay, don't worry, we are going to use the beds of the private sector and said, okay, that's not a step. But after that, they said, okay, we are going to pay the private sector. And actually they doubled the rate of hospitalization. Just within the crisis, they doubled and they said, okay, we're good, but we have to pay them more. So this is the all approach. And we are going, so we are today in the middle of the second wave, which is, as you know, it is, I mean, even greater than what we were thinking of. I mean, we are expecting a second wave, but this is much bigger in quantity and in the strength of incoming society. And we are literally unprepared for that in all countries of Europe, I say again, nothing had been done. So today, we are again in the same situation. And as you know, for example, here in Greece, we are now one week in lockdown, Austria today was good to learn the lockdown is coming back as the only, the only solution because we don't have a do anything. And here we are going to another issue regarding health, I mean, because it's not only to care for the people who are ill from the COVID or whatever other listen, but also to see the factors that are determining health, which is the social determination of health. And this pandemic, as we know already, is a big, big danger for the massive health of the population, because it is driving masses of the population in impoverishment, okay, in farming, actually, in Europe, we are speaking about Europe in farming. So, and all this, actually, now these days, we are discussing in Greece and other countries that they are going to be, how you say that, expulsed by their houses because they cannot pay the rent or the borrow that they have done. So all the factors or the determinants of health, which are food, house and so on and so on are hit by the pandemic. So we are expecting much more problems of health because of the pandemic. So instead of doing that, what they are doing, I say again, in all countries of Europe is that they are turning, they are trying to keep in house into the public health system, the problem of COVID patients. So they are destroying all the services for the other morbidity. Okay, so this is another issue that we have already, and this has been counted globally, I mean, we have an excess death rate of non-COVID diagnosis, because there is no way to deal with heart problems or cancer problems or whatever, diabetes and so on. So we have a lot of morbidity that cannot be expressed, cannot be dealt with because there are no services. They are closing all services and are putting them under the COVID issue. Now, all this, I repeat, it's a result of the neoliberal policies. In our view, I mean, not only the people's health model, but also I'm speaking as a public health specialist in epidemiologists and so on, the issue which is global, it's not only European, the very important issue is that we have lost globally the ability, what I said before, the ability, first of all, to record data, what is happening, who is ill, who is becoming ill, where, what are his characteristics or her characteristics, socially, work-wise and so on and so on, in order to be able to control the epidemic. And this is global, I repeat, I just want to stress, it's not European, but it is very important that one metropolis, let's say, of our public health is the CDC, the Centers of Diseases Control in the United States, which is also dismantled and they cannot deliver. We don't know, so today what is happening, and this is very important also, is that the governments are making lockdowns, closing schools, or not closing schools, or whatever decisions without any documentation, without any evidence. Actually here, and I think it is, I heard that I'm hearing that it is in Europe, in a lot of European countries, the government try to victim-blaming the people, so they are saying, they are raising the issue of, that all this issue is an issue of personal responsibility. So it's you, the citizen that is the fault of the citizen because you go out, because you are not putting your mask or whatever, and especially in Greece, they are using that against the youth, I mean, because you know, the youth are going out and they are in the platzas with a beer, something like that, so they say, okay, look what is happening, these are the people that are so they are using that against the population, they are promoting the idea of personal responsibility, and which is very recent in Greece, and on Tuesday we are going to see, we are going to have some problems, because on Tuesday we have, it is the anniversary of the raise of the youth in 1973 against the then dictatorship. So every year we are having mass manifestations for democracy and so on and so on. And now the government said, because of COVID, because of the pandemic, in order to protect public health, they are, they made a quasi, you know, dictator rule that no gathering more than three people is going to be tolerated by the police. So they are using also COVID, first of all, as I said before, to destroy public health services, to help and give more money to the private sector of health, and not only of health, and they are using also COVID for the shift to anti-democratic rules and tomorrow's oppression for the people, which is also very important and very, an issue that we have to see, globally. Absolutely. And in this context, I just wanted to go back to the key point that you mentioned, which is at the heart of this all, that is the fact that after the first wave, there really was no effort by governments to actually reverse any of the policies they have been following for decades. So I just want to maybe go a bit more into the country level aspects, or so were there at any point's proposals, say by pan-European institutions, or say especially people's movements who had a lot of demands, of course, and was there the possibility in any of these countries that this was being discussed seriously, or was it just summarily dismissed across? Regarding Europe, especially European Union, it is interesting also, historically, I think it's going to be raised, I think, I understand by political science and history and so on, that European Union, which is an organization very strict on applying the neoliberal policies in all states, and actually Greece was a victim of that, as you know, in the decade 10 to 20, 2010 to 20. So they have rules and say, okay, we are Europe, we have to have our rules and and so on. Now, during this crisis, we have, we are going back to nationalism. For example, we have the vaccine next nationalism, okay. There is no vaccine in the world, in my view, and this is another issue if you want to discuss, that's, you know, it is really a virtual discussion that, okay, at some point, sometime we're going to have a vaccine, and every month another company, now it's Pfizer, then it was AstraZeneca and so on. They say, okay, we found there is a vaccine and all the governments, the government, including the European government, they are prepaying from public funds to the private sector for a product that is not there, okay. Okay, this is a parenthesis about the vaccine. So even for the vaccine, the European countries are not altogether. I mean, now they tried last month, they said, okay, we're going to do something like, as European Union. So it is dismantled. They don't have, we don't have any. And actually, and this is also very sad for us, for us as public health, I mean, is that the European CDC, ECDC, which is also a good organization and have a very high quality of scientists there and so on. It's also dismantled and it's not working. It's not actually all these lockdowns, and especially also the intra-frontiers traveling and so on, all the rules regarding the control, aiming the control of the pandemic, normally have to be come to come from, it's CDC from the European control disease organization. So no, nothing is happening. Every country is doing whatever the government says and so on. So there is no, unfortunately, there is not at all any European coordination. The only issue that it is positive, let's say, but anyway, is that they lifted a bit the strictness of the funding issues. So now every country can put some more money there and then in order to help the services and so on. But also stricting, I mean, they are not hiring people. They are just making contracts of two or three months or five months, very short contracts, contracts and so on. So on the other side, and this is now speaking from the side of the movement, is that unfortunately, what we are seeing all these years, of course, but now it's even more obvious, is that the capital corporations have a great internationalism. They are working very hand-by-hand and very concretely together, and we, the people we don't have, we have lost that. And this is an issue, I think, that we have today is internationally and people's health movement is working on that, of course, in order to try to say, okay, what is happening here? We have, as peoples of Europe, to stay up to raise up and say, okay, stop, okay, and see what can be done in a European level. And we are trying that. There is a movement that is actually trying to make every year, you know, the 7th of April is the day of health. So there is also an idea now, yesterday I was speaking with French colleagues and comrades to make a big movement for health on the 7th of April, which strikes, it's on all over Europe in order to push a bit this issue. Now on the other side, what we have as positive, let's say, from the movement actions is, are all over Europe and the world, but all over Europe also, local, from down to up movements of solidarity, which is solidarity from the real practical issues. For example, you have elderly people that they cannot go to the grocery, so some people of the neighborhood, of the neighborhood they are going in to solidarity from the artists and organizing festivals in internet festivals, of course. So this is a good thing that, you know, the people thinks and feels that we need solidarity, it's not only by the government, by oppression that we're going to solve this issue. Absolutely, right. And in this context, quickly to sort of, right now, we know that of course, a more extreme part of winter is coming up. Again, like you said, people, for instance, the risk of evictions is at an all-time high. And so right now, what are the kinds of demands that health activists specifically are making? Again, there's a vast variety. And last week, for instance, Greece had protests by health workers as well. So across various parts, maybe take us quickly through some of the key demands that right now health workers and activists think are a priority. So as I said before, one priority and a demand that we are making all over Europe is that we have to strengthen the services of public health, which means epidemiology and so on and so on, in order to control the epidemic. And then to strengthen the public health services, which means that we are asking, first of all, to hire personnel in a permanent way with, of course, criteria of quality and very well, in open criteria zone, which is very important. Also, we have to help to demand the raise of the technical support. Actually, here we can make another parenthesis, which is interesting in Greece, but in Europe also and globally, is that this issue, for example, we need respirators for intensive care units and so on. The governments are not doing anything. And we have a raising movement wave of philanthropo-capitalism, which is coming and saying, okay, we give you 50 respirators and so on, which is really the hypocrisy of all the system, you know, coming back to us. So the other issue that is the health person. And now, because we are in urgent situation all over Europe, what is raising as a demand all over Europe is that we have to take over the private sector. I mean, we are asking that the private sector is going to be taken over by the public system and working as part of the public system, which is, I think it is not ideological only, which is obvious, but it is practical. I mean, we have beds there that are not used. So we need these beds. We need these intensive care units. So we have to make it. So again, the government and all over Europe, but in Greece also, which I know are much better, is they say, okay, okay. And what they are doing, as I told you before, is they are paying for some beds to them. We are asking for the confiscation of them. It is time to speak about health as a social right. We have to confiscate the services in order to have a strength and quality quality services, public health system. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Alexis, for speaking to us. Thank you very much. Thank you. That's all. We are time for today. Keep watching People's Dispatch.