 Welcome to Dare to Dream. This is Debbie Daschinger. This podcast has been nominated for two People's Choice podcast awards as well as a Webby Award. Dare to Dream is ranked in the top 100 best podcasts in USA in self-improvement on Apple podcasts. We also rank in the very top in many other countries, including most lately, Tanzania, Ibiza, the Caribbean, Portugal, Canada, and France. Thank you so much for listening, for telling your friends about this show, for subscribing and leaving us for a view. This is why we receive the ratings we do because of our awesome viewers and listeners. If you like what you're hearing on the podcast, you can also see us on youtube.com slash Debbie Daschinger. I'm a certified coach, my expertise is visibility and media. I coach people to write a page turner book. I take their book to a guaranteed international bestseller and I pull back the curtain. So my clients have the system to be interviewed on media and podcast and they get massive results. I show people how to find and use media exposure to locate their tribe, fill workshops, sell books and gain positive exposure. Connect with me at Debbie Daschinger.com and remember you can get your free tools and templates if you'd like to learn what your message is and how to say it out into the world. Go to Debbie Daschinger.com slash message, D-E-B-B-I-D-A-C-H-I-N-G-E-R.com slash message. Question, do you wanna know how to prepare for extraterrestrial contact? My guest is Lisa Royal Holt, known for her groundbreaking books, The Prism of Lyra, preparing for contact, visitors from within and the Golden Lake. Lisa has been a trans channel, contact researcher and seminar leader globally since 1985. In 2010, she developed the Galactic Heritage Cards, a card system that explores the archetypal galactic influences on a person's life as well as their wounds, unfinished lessons and spiritual gifts. Lisa was most recently seen in season one and two of Gaia TV series called Interview with E.D. Extra Dimensionals with Reuben Langdon. Lisa lives in Arizona with her husband and travels often to Japan to work with her large community of students. You can find out more about her at LisaRoyal.net and that's L-Y-S-S-A-Royal.net and now sit back and enjoy the Dare to Dream podcast. Lisa Royal Holt is here with me. I couldn't be more excited. I'm like a kid in a candy store, a kid in an E.T. candy store right now. And Lisa, one of the things I would like to do just to start, you have these amazing galactic heritage cards. I have a set, but you have yours at the ready. And I thought it would be pretty cool to just pick a card, like pulling the energy of the watchers, the listeners and find out whomever is watching live or replay. What is the message that the galactic heritage cards have for them? Okay. So I'm using the Japanese version actually. So they might look a little different to any of the viewers that know the cards. And I'm just shuffling a little bit here because that's part of my ritual. And as I'm shuffling, I'll say these cards were published 10 years ago. So this is the 10th year anniversary. They were first published in Japan. And here we go. I'm going to lay them out in front of me and I'm going to pick one. So I'm going to ask the universe to show us whatever their listeners need to see for today for the show. And I will give a little bit of an interpretation. Oh, this is interesting. Okay. I didn't know we were going to go here, but I will show the card. This is a Pleiadian card. And the number is 86. The theme is equal value philosophy. And what this has to do with is very appropriate for our times right now because right now we're seeing all of this division on the planet and all of this polarity with opinions and everything else. And basically what this card is asking us to do is to remember that inherently all things are neutral. And that it's our stories and perhaps our wounds and experiences that get layered on this inherently neutral energy. And if we react from the layer of the story or the layer of the wound, then we bring ourself into polarity. But if we learn to find the neutrality, the inherently neutral experience underneath the layers, then we can live in peace within ourselves. So that is the message for the listeners today. Okay. And we'll see also how that plays out in today's show because that may show up in other places and spaces. And that is a beautiful reminder for us right now. And it's also something that Sasha brings up and I'm gonna weave this in. So that actually was so perfect. It was something Sasha talked about, little cliffhanger that I had some questions about. And Sasha is one of the beautiful beings that you channel. I wanna go back to the inception, Lisa, of your channeling because you started trans channeling when you took a channeling class with someone else we all know who's been on the show a few times, Darryl Anka, who channels Bashar. Can you talk about what happened, why you took the class, how you ended up there and how these entities started coming through you? Well, if you go back to childhood, I was just the weird kid that always saw the ghosts. You know, probably you were the same. And so through life, I was very much that weird child. And in 1979, I had a UFO sighting when I was in college. And that was kind of what rocked my world and set me on the path of trying to understand what the connection was with human race and the stars. So now it's like almost 40 years later at this point or it is 40 years later, and I'm still on that path. I've gotten more answers, but there's more questions always. So in the early 80s, I ended up, after I graduated college from New England, I moved to Los Angeles. And so this was right at the time when Shirley McClain's book, Out on a Limb was out and trans channeling was exploding into the main, well mainstream kind of, I guess. And all these things started to happen. I was having UFO sightings in Los Angeles over the freeway, over the 101 actually. And I just kind of surrendered to the synchronicity of universe show me what it is I'm supposed to do with this, how am I supposed to navigate this? So out of nowhere, somebody asked me to go to a channeling session in the valley. And I thought it was going to be a guy channeling a doctor. I didn't know when I show up and it's Daryl Anka channeling Bashar. And these were the days when we had maybe 10 or 15 people in a living room and he was doing it like three times a week. So lots and lots and it was so many stories in here. I can't squeeze it all in. But actually it wasn't him that I took the class from. It was another woman you may know, her name's Sean Randall. She still is in Los Angeles teaching classes and she was a friend of Daryl's. In fact, the two of them were part of the program it was a dissertation program at UCLA where a professor was studying the, what happens to channels as they begin to develop their process on a spiritual level, on a psychological level. And so through a various synchronicities, Daryl's wife Erica called me and got me into the class. So I would say Sean was my official channeling teacher in like 1985, but Daryl was also a mentor as well. Amazing. Were you great at this right from the get go Lisa? Or was it a bumpy road for you to really channeling? I don't know if great is the right word. I was passionate for sure because I was hungry for those answers. I would go in the Bodhi Tree bookstore and there were like three books on the shelf about ETs in terms of channeled material. So at the beginning I actually started channeling before I took the class, but it's kind of like learning to drive yourself. You know, it's like, I didn't know what I was doing and I really didn't want to crash the car. So the universe kind of provided all of these different signposts to show me which way to go. So I was very, very lucky in that way of being guided so very clearly. Yeah. It's interesting because you also have a BA in psychology. You have some background in hypnosis. You are like master certified as a yoga teacher. So how did those elements, if they do, play into what you offer today? Have they assisted you in what you deliver? They've assisted me tremendously. You know, I can't even believe that I'm saying that I've been channeling now 35 years. It's incomprehensible to me actually. But everything that's come across my path in those 35 years has been deliberately put there. But I would say the yoga thing was a really important road that I needed to take. And the reason for that was because I needed to learn about the human energy system. Because I was, the way I was taught channeling was that if you surrender to the energy, that the energy will buoy you and that's all you need. But after many years of channeling, I found that my body got very drained and my immune system was suffering. And right at that point, this would be now the late 90s, I got introduced to some Taoist masters, Taoist yoga masters from Korea, who taught me how to rebuild my energy system. So through breath work and intense posture holding with breath work to build the key in the body. And that basically revitalized my body. And I became a instructor in that system. But with Taoist practices, the masters always tell you, do it and you'll understand, which is great, but I'm left brain. So I really like the left brain stuff. So my yoga teacher here in Arizona got put in my path around 2005 and he's heavy on the philosophy and he's left brain too. So I got the best of both worlds, left and a right brain approach to yoga and how the yoga principles, the yoga philosophy is so necessary for our awakening on earth and also to integrate our body, mind, spirit, emotion, spirituality in general. All right, well, my curiosity is really peaked now. Do you ever offer it? I know you do your workshops, but do you ever do the yoga piece as well? Because I would like that. Well, it's actually been a really long time since I've offered the yoga stuff separately. There's the channeling class that I teach for Japanese students, which is a year long class. I use the yoga in the class because I, yes, going back to your other question, I see that that was the missing piece I didn't have in the 80s. So I bring it to my students now. I'd love to go back to teaching it, but I just haven't had the opportunity with everything else. Because you are busy. I know you're very busy in gaining popularity as you should at these very interesting times. And so when we use the words, when you use the words trans channeling, what's the difference between a trans channel and a channel? Well, the way I describe it in my channeling classes is that I talk about three different states of channeling. One is, perhaps you can call it unconscious trans channeling. And the most famous example of that would be Edgar Casey because he went to sleep basically and channeled this information. When I began to channel, I really told the universe, I don't want to do that form of channeling. And part of it was also because my teacher was part of the program at UCLA studying channels and I had come to learn the importance of integrating myself as a channel, not having the channeling experience as something separate from life. So the second form of channeling then, which is what I do, I call semi-conscious channeling. Basically, it's a form of trans that I experienced that it feels like I'm asleep and dreaming. And when I'm in it, it's very, very real and my perception of everything in the realm that I'm operating when I'm channeling is very, very heightened. But my perception of what's happening in the outer world is very lessened. It's kind of like going into the backseat of the car and having somebody else driving. So that's the form of trans channeling that I do a semi-conscious form. And then of course we have just conscious channeling which I think everybody does in one form or another. It can, conscious channeling can be expressed in so many different ways, half the time I think people don't even realize they're doing it. So it's different gradient of the process but I was really more interested in something that would be an integrative process rather than a separative process. Yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you? You're receiving this tremendous wisdom, downloads constantly and instructions. So you must then have changed tremendously since your inception as a channel till now 35 years later because of all that is poured through you both here in America as well as in Japan. Yes, I don't even know if I would recognize the person I was 35 years ago because I started channeling, I think I was like 24 years old or something like that. And back then I wasn't really taken seriously because I was this little kid, 24 years old and I'm small to begin with so I look like a teenager. So what I learned though, and also this is what was taught to me especially through the UCLA study program was that we as channels have a responsibility to clear ourselves. So all of our wounds, whether they're this life or other lives, our maybe self-destructive belief systems and all that kind of stuff is hanging around there and can act as a distortion to our channeling process. So some people have misunderstood that the deeper you are in trance, the clearer you are as a channel but actually it's more that the cleaner you are as a human, the clearer you are as a channel. So I've worked so hard in these 35 years to try to make myself as clear and clean as integrous as I possibly can. There's no such thing as perfection on the human spectrum so to speak. So it's a gradual process but I would say in terms of how I've changed then it has a lot to do with that. Just the work, the self-work and the self-learning has really been a key for me. When you start channeling Lisa and I can literally feel the energetic shift to you, lock in if you will, whomever is coming through you, you have something you do with your hands and I'll just say it out loud for those who are only listening to the podcast and it seems to me it's third eye, throat chakra and heart chakra. What is that? Is this something that Sasha or Jermaine or Hamon had orchestrated or how did this come about? What does it do or mean? Even actually nobody's ever asked that but when you're asking me the question, what dropped in and they like to use metaphors it's kind of like buttoning your shirt. So it's like a way to align my energy field in such a way that I can connect with the energy. Now, something you didn't see at the retreat you attended is what Hamon has been doing the last couple of years and he didn't do it at the retreat, which was very odd, which is clapping. And he says that when he does that it's a discharge of like quote unquote static electricity or it's a way to kind of discharge the energy that's out of balance to button the shirt, so to speak, I guess. Wow, that's interesting way to describe it because I know I can feel it when it happens and it's like it's really clear you land when you land. Okay, so one of the beings that you channel is Sasha, a fourth density cladian. And Sasha talks about her species evolution to fourth density. So I wanna, I'm just gonna say it real quick. And I did go to Lisa's workshop, so that's that. And then I'm like going crazy with her books right now and her CDs, I'm just ingesting a lot because I am so meant to, there's no talk about hunger. So Sasha says in general that here on earth we are straddling the third density and the fourth density. And I just wanna be clear for people going, no, that's dimension. No, we're talking about something completely different. So let me just break it down and maybe Debbie terms. And you can correct me if I'm wrong. So third density is about pain and fear and fourth density is healing. And so the description is that people straddling these both like we're finding our way, right? So the healing we're sort of bouncing around. You can see it on the planet very distinctly. So if this is so that we are straddling both as humans and collectively, how can we facilitate I would like to say a rapid growth. We always want it rapid, don't we? Man, am I ready personally and collectively to be there existing in a fourth density, which seems so much easier and more gracious and loving. So getting rid of pain and fear and moving into this really deep, deep, deep, deep healing. And moving into this really love space, this heart healing, healed space. How do we do this ourselves? Are there rituals or practices? How can we do this with our significant others? Are there rituals or processes that you might recommend? So we can start to get there. Wow. That's a lot to unpack in that question. And what you said was clear. There's another thing I want to add to it just to give a context. Yeah. Because the process of evolution of physical beings doesn't make sense from the perspective of the physical being. It makes sense from the holographic being that we are. Okay. So if I was to answer from the human level, I don't think it would be very satisfying. When you're talking about the third and the fourth density for the listeners, think of it like a rainbow. A rainbow is a spectrum. So there's a spectrum of consciousness that moves from the most separated experience where you really don't know who you are. You don't know you are this one hologram of consciousness. And when you are in that deep level of separation, that's the third density expression. So when you're that intensely separated, that's where the pain, that's where the fear is experienced. It is experienced from the point of view of the one consciousness we are that fragmented into this rainbow of consciousness, so to speak, that one consciousness wanted to experience the separation and all that comes with it. This is something that's really hard for humans to accept because we don't, I don't want to experience that either to be honest, but evolution, consciousness evolves. So right now on earth, we are experiencing the end of the cycle of third density and the beginning of the cycle of fourth density, which is where a lot of the other ET beings who are contacting us are expressing themselves. And that too is a spectrum. It's the last expression of physicality. So that period of time when a civilization is straddling the line, as you said, between third and fourth density, sorry to say it is one of the most chaotic periods of time where we are purging a lot. We are healing a lot. And as you well know, when we purge and release, you kind, you have to go through those pain bands. You have to go through those fears and let yourself feel and forgive and embrace all those parts of you that when you are deep, deep, deep asleep in third density, you were not even aware that you could do that. So that's kind of an overview of the spectrum. Now, in terms of practices, you were asking about that. So I don't think there's a magic button. It has more to do with the way we approach whatever practice we're doing. So if you practice yoga, if you practice tai chi, if you practice any type of even therapy with a therapist, how you approach it is the key. And the key is authenticity. Which means, I got chills when I said that, whoo! Which means that are we hiding from ourselves? If we are hiding our own crap from ourselves, we are not being authentic. And that will keep us in that separated state. So there's a card in the deck actually. It's number 44 called the secrecy card. It's a serious card, which is referring to the aspects of ourselves that we keep hidden. And that is one of the keys. So no matter what the practice we're doing, and even if we're just working in relationship with another person, are we being authentic with ourselves? And that means having to see maybe the ugly parts of ourselves that we don't want to see. Yeah. So that's such a huge conversation unto itself. But I know one of the things you talk about is the shadow. And you have CDs about that. And I know having done shadow work, how incredibly important it is. So I just want to preface for people listening. Like if you want to figure out your ugly wounds, like the stuff you don't even know exists, look at what you say, right? They say one finger pointing out, three fingers pointing back at you. So if you say, you know, I hate gossips. I hate gossips and I especially hate, you know, Mary, because she's always gossiping about it. Like it really triggers you. Guess what? Hate to say it, but buried somewhere deep that you don't recognize is a way that you enact that very behavior or someone, if you're very, you know, people are very critical. I hate very critical people. Whatever it is, there's so many different ways that people get triggered. Triggering means you're not in the present. Yeah. You're having a reaction to something in the past and also to something within you. And I am telling you that if you will take the time to widen back and find ways it may not look exactly like how it manifests in the other person that's triggering you, but I promise if you really widen back and you start to be honest with your many relationships with self and other, it's uncomfortable what you pull up. But my God, it's such a relief when you finally admit to yourself. And usually it's a company with a lot of remorse. Once you start to see what you've done and then through that remorse, there's so much grace and healing. Like it literally can transmute or you can take responsibility and apologize. You can find ways. That's the second part of the shadow work because some people can do the shadow work, but then they get stuck in the regret and the guilt. And then they can't shift it because they're stuck there. So shadow work in that sense is like being in a fun house with all the mirrors. If you try to navigate by looking out here at all the different reflections, it's very, very difficult. So you have to continually self-reference inward. And it takes a little bit of finesse to learn how to do that. That's right. And even think about one more piece people can think about is the I can'ts. You know, the things you are so sure you can't. I can't be affectionate. I can't gush over people. I can't take risks, you know, that are big out in the world. There's something in there that literally got shattered. You know, shamans would love to get their hands on you to pull back the pieces, but there's something that got split there that caused this point of view. It's really erroneous. I promise you, you really can. But if you go into the depth of that incredible discomfort, whatever that pulls up for you, you'll find it. Trust me, the gifts are ginormous. So this is great because this is, you know, third density to fourth density work that we're talking about. And also your book preparing for contact. People. I think it's behind Lisa. L Y S S a really if you're going to get a book. This is beyond I can't even with this book cannot. My partner read it and he was freaking out the whole time. He said, Oh, if you want to listen to this passage, Oh, I have another passage. Oh, you know, and I feel the same. I'm constantly interrupting him and I'm writing stuff down and. Something's happening to me while I'm reading it. I didn't even think about this till I'm saying it out loud. Now this is interesting. Now I'm thinking about this in real time, because when I was in your workshop, Lisa, I was clear something I'm very sensitive to energy as clear something was happening. But when I came home to Los Angeles, I was like those people that Lisa and all those beautiful beings that came through her, they weren't just teaching us. They were working on us. I know they were working on us because I felt my God, the amount I had to sleep and process. And all of a sudden I haven't had dreams in so long. Of course I've had dreams, but dreams I could remember. I was having a big time, like movie stepping into a movie dream going, waking up the next morning, going back into same dream. Very profound stuff. Things have been showing up. I know stuff has shifted in me. So now I'm thinking your book does the same. Is this true? Well, actually, this is a whole other exciting topic for me. We're going back to the contact issue because some people, they hear the word contact and they think of some weird thing. Right. ETS. Oh, I'm not interested in that because they don't really understand what it's about. And that's why the, I, I preparing for contact is one of my most favorite books because. It is. Referencing the idea of using contact as a tool for evolution, self evolution. Because when we have contact, it's not about going out and meeting the ET and shaking their hand, meeting the ET as an other. But what we're finding now is that all of these different fragments or fractals of the hologram that we see as separate are really other versions of us. And they are helping us integrate ourselves. So we're well, in this type of contact research and work that I do, we're well beyond the idea of, oh, is there going to be a UFO or are we going to meet an ET? You know, Debbie, what happened when we did the work out there? There was a lot of crazy phenomena. But ultimately, as you said, they're working on us because they're helping us. They're helping us to tear down the structures in which we have maintained our separateness. And as above so below, so when you're working with an ET energy that is seemingly separate, it's a mirror reflection for our own internal parts that we have kept at arm's length as well. So whether we're doing contact, work, then you're more open to contact work. If you're doing contact work correctly, then you're also doing inner work correctly in an integrative way. It's a win-win. If you start with inner work or contact work, that's fantastic. You're going to circle back around either way. Yeah. So preparing to contact, like this is a great book people to get. It really delivers and then some. And the contention in the book is that over 90% of humanity already has had contact. But because of how we can or can't, most of us can't assimilate what has happened. We go into a bit of a fog about it. So what if we want to know? I want to know the specifics like what's happened. I'm starting to think. I just think it's all so hilarious. A year ago, I would never have been having this conversation. And I'm so deep in the Kool-Aid, it's ridiculous. I feel truth. And when this door opened for me and I rushed through and then there you were and this information you're delivering, which creates even more truth. And I've had experiences and then read them in your book. And it's just my mind's exploding in the best possible way. I mean, I feel like I am right where I'm supposed to be. It's so comfortable. It's so strangely comfortable to shift like that, to walk in a door and suddenly be like, yeah, of course. Obviously you were ready. And now you can see it's not about the weird sci-fi contact idea. It's more an idea of integrating other aspects of yourself. Yeah. And I feel absolutely like when you say this has already happened. Now I'm like, yeah, I completely believe this to be so. So one of the questions you ask on the form that we fill out that was rather interesting to me when we do your workshop, you ask us questions. And one of the many questions was have you, I may be bastardizing this, but basically have you ever had blackout periods? Have you ever had times in your life you simply don't remember? And my, I was like, Oh, that's a very interesting question. Nobody's ever asked me that. And I've never said anything out loud, but I don't recall a lot of my childhood. Now I have trauma from childhood. I grew up in a very interesting home. So I always assumed, I just zeroed it out. But when you ask that question, I thought, Oh, I wonder a lot now. If there's something else. So that's the forgetting periods of time. I know the book talks about electrical experiences. So how can we ascertain? Have we actually had and assuming if it's over 90% of humanity that we have had, how do we know for sure? And then how, how do we discover what actually has happened? But how do we know for sure? I'm from the East Coast too originally is, is one of those questions that I don't know if the ego can ever accept because, you know, I've been doing this. Pursuing this now from since 79, these, these answers. And when I have an experience that absolutely positively, you can't deny, I integrate it. And then the ego says, yeah, but I want something bigger. I want something bigger. I want something bigger. So, you know, that's the nature of us as humans. However, going back to this idea about the missing time. I, I know that a lot of kids have these types of experiences. And especially people who are now in interested in spirituality. And even more interestingly, a lot of people who had trauma as children. And this is kind of a well-known fact by psychologists who have done contact research. It seems that trauma somehow opens people up in different ways. It's not my area of expertise. So I'm not even going to go down that road. But anyway, when you're talking about the 90%, you know, a lot of that contact is probably only in the dream state. Or is like one of those blips that happens like when you're driving or you're zoning out. I know because I don't know if you know this, somebody that was at the retreat. They were listening to a two hour podcast and they had a six hour drive. And the podcast was ending when they got home. So something happened. Yeah. So that's another example of. This weird type of anomaly that happens when you get involved with this. Now, right away, people will say, well, the ETs are doing it. You know, the ETs are wiping my memory. And I would say that that's kind of a first level or more immature understanding of, I don't mean that as a judgment, it's just the first level understanding of contact. As you do research that has to do with contact and consciousness, you start to see that the contact experience occurs outside of time. Very, very, very often. So when you return, when your consciousness returns to the time stream, there can be a gap. So it just gets weirder as you go further along this path. Yeah, but this is so cool because I can't wait to see people. Here's why I also know I'm in the right place doing the right thing. Because since I've been exploring this and having this level of conversation, I am getting more people just on YouTube alone. Forget about the podcast, which is a whole other big world for me and Radio World where these shows go out to. I've had so many people saying, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. And how much they needed to hear this or learn this. So I know this is important. And gosh, I would be so embarrassed at another time in my life. But to say, you know, when you talk about this at the end of the day, I think that is quote unquote, other is actually self, you know, and I had that experience right before your workshop where I was receiving a massage. And I've had a lot of chronic pain on my left side in this. This guy is unbelievable. He's an energy worker and a really profound masseuse. And it was painful. Oh, I was like Lamas breathing just to get through it. I had to coach myself to transcend, to go to another place because it was so intense, like let go, just surrender, let go, to go sort of this field. And it's all of a sudden I popped out of my body. Best I can say, because I wasn't aware of it in the time it was just so natural, looked at myself on the table. I recognized myself on the table, but I don't look like this on the table. I looked lavender gray is the best color. And I could say I had a very big head and I had brown eyes without eyelids that went like this. I had a long body that was, it was gender neutral. The teeth for me, I want to say that was sort of razor like or nashi. I have nothing to go by. I've never seen anything like this. And it was clearly very sentient looking at me connecting with me. It was in distress sort of experiencing what I was experiencing, but probably handling it much better than I, and it was this profound like connection. I, we wouldn't call this being attracted in this life because of what we look like, but to me it, she, it was so beautiful. And I became aware like what the heck is going on. And the moment I became aware of what was happening, think I went right back in my body. And then I thought, do not tell them as Zeus, what just happened. So of course I waited to your workshop because I was like, what? And then once again, I read in your book about this, seeing our future selves as beings from other planets. And I'm going, I know this is what happened. That was so real. I mean, the idea of it being other selves is, is, is a, an idea that some people have difficulty in the UFO community understanding because things either are other or not. But metaphor is one of the ways that can really help to understand this idea. So if you look at, and this is what's dropping in right now, if you have like a sheet of ice, like on a, on a lake, and you puncture it and it fractures. So at the end of those fractures, there might be many, many, many, many different points. And those would be our individual selves, our human selves. And we are at the end of the fracture. So we think we are alone. But if you travel backwards through the fractures, they come back like a root system into nodal points that are more group consciousness or more metaphorical consciousness or consciousness that isn't as separate in the same way. And if you, if you trace it all the way back to the initial impact, which would be the initial fragmentation, you can see that there really is only one consciousness that fractured. So one of the things that we're experiencing as we're moving into this fourth density reality is we're traveling backwards now away from those end points of the fractures. We're traveling backwards into seeing our, the other aspects of ourselves, just like the Mayans would always say, I am another you. It's the same idea. And we're traveling backwards now. So when we're doing contact work, this is actually what we're doing. Is other versions of us, not our ego us, but other versions of the one consciousness that originally fractured. And we're going back along those lines now to the one. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah, that whole idea is so crazy. I listened on one of your CDs about you speaking to your, well, Sasha was speaking to your husband, Ron, and saying, Ron had sushi tonight. But what if Ron had decided to have eggs and, you know, all these fractals of different choices and different paths that could be taken place. It's so wild, you know, and I assume that they all feed into somewhere. They all funnel back to the one. Exactly. Nothing is ever missed in creation. We as humans, our brains don't have the capacity of experiencing all of those realities simultaneously. That would be schizophrenia. Yeah. So that's why we have to experience it more in an individual way. But as we move backwards along those, those lines of the fragment, then we start having more experiences that are more collective in nature. Less individualized and connected to the ego. Wow. I'm listening to you and I'm thinking as co-creators, wouldn't that be amazing if we made like really fantastic choices instead of suffer struggle choices, right? Totally. I'll have that million dollars. I'll have that career on the stage. I will have world travel. I will have the best partner in the world. I will have a tribe of beautiful best friends. I will, you know, connect with the ETS and have magnet. I mean, you could fractalize that way and just have the most glorious million lives, concurrent lives all at once. That would be, that would be the way to go. Some part of you out there is doing that. I know you're thinking about which is my part. I will totally have some of that. That's beautiful. I have a quote from Sasha, which is, the key to all transformation is relationship. How do we use relationship to transform? What's the salient point here? Salient point is that relationship provides us with a mirror in which we can see ourselves. I think that's probably what she meant by that. And that's why relationships are so painful. Sometimes, but it's also why they can bring such joy at the same time, because we learn in a sense to see our God self or whatever you want to call it, we can learn to experience our own Godhood through relationship if we allow ourselves to do so. And for people who are in relationship, you mentioned it can be very painful as well as joyful. So when it gets painful and people are reacting to one another, how can they come out of reaction and instead, I guess like claim their power instead to find the transformation fee. We go, we go full circle actually back to something you asked earlier, which is about, and I, the answer I gave was authenticity, that if one person in the relationship allows themselves to be authentic and vulnerable, it changes the entire dynamic of the relationship. But we as humans are so terrified of being vulnerable, even if our minds are saying, no, I know I need to be vulnerable. There's that knee jerk relationship. This is something again, the move from third to fourth density that we're working through now. We're starting to, to, to see that unless you are willing to commit to vulnerability and authenticity, the road is a dead end. Yeah. So somebody's got to step out of that spiral when the reaction happens. That's what I hear you saying. And the moment when it can be contentious, say, Oh my God, I love you so much and I'm lost or I'm feeling whatever, but just go into the heart. Yeah. And be willing to show that. And of course it's the most beautiful when your partner can receive that. And be in that place with you. Exactly. Exactly. If you allowed that vulnerability and, you know, if there's any emotion like tears as an example, tears are a very centering things. So you, when, when you become vulnerable and open, it's an invitation to the friend or the partner. To, in a sense, implode with you into the heart. Now they may take it. They may not. Maybe they're really into the self preservation. There's nothing you can do about that, but you've grown yourself by allowing yourself to be authentic and vulnerable in that moment. One of your upcoming workshops, Lisa, is called the Pleiadian light body activation. Oh my God. That sounds so cool. What do people who participant receive? What are the experience in a light body? Actually, that particular workshop is mostly for Japanese clientele. But I am going to, at some point, do one for English speakers, but it's utilizing tools that assist us with stepping into the fourth dimension. So I'm going to talk about that. So it's utilizing tools that assist us with stepping into the fourth density versions of ourselves, which has to do with integration. So you've got a taste of this a little bit at the, the retreat where we use that sacred geometry form of the octahedron, which is a kind of a standard fourth density tool. So it's utilizing tools such as that to help integrate ourselves and give us a little, maybe a little bit of a kickstart to help us move into that more integrated frequency. Okay. And with, with everything you do and offer, you contend that ET contact is actually a tool, which I love. It's a tool for personal transformation, for planetary transformation. And you've addressed some of why that is because we have to do a lot of work in order to receive contact with them, to actually have contact with them. And so the contact is a metaphor really for welcoming home, the parts of ourselves that we've not been willing to welcome. So it's going back, you know, to, when we talk about shadow work, the things within us that we've pushed away because we're afraid of it. And the contact in that sense is kind of like a metaphor for that idea of, can we welcome into our reality the things that are in the unknown that we maybe are afraid of, but that also compel us to let go of the past, to let go of our, our polarized selves and move into a more integrated expression in this reality. So that's why it's a tool because obviously at some point, we have to enter a galactic community. How we're going to do that, when we're going to do it, especially right now in the world with all the division, the ET's have said, we're making the contacts with you individually now to help you heal so that when the open contact comes, you truly are ready. And can you talk a little bit about time travel and wormholes and how that shows up, how they use that? There's a lot to say. I don't know what direction you want me to go in. I think that wormholes are really created to consciousness. So we have a, maybe an idea that you have to have some big machine or something like that in the sci-fi movies that creates the wormhole, but when you have, for example, when we were in the desert, all of us, there were about 25 of us, and we were doing that work together, our consciousness became harmonized as a group. And harmonized consciousness that is supported by universal energy, which is like what happens during contact, it creates, I guess you could call it wormhole, that's very, very kind of dramatic, but it creates a portal, if you will, through which other like-minded consciousness can interface, which is what we saw because that guy standing in front of you during the contact work, right? Oh yeah, that actually has an afterlife too. So that was crazy. I don't remember so much. I mean, I remember starting to sometimes meditate with whomever was coming through you. And I talk about losing time. I lost so much. There's so much I don't remember. But I have things, of course, on my camera and my film that were pretty shocking for me. Perfect. Go dramatic. That's like great for a person like me. So it looks like I have craft. I certainly have not only globes that showed up, but I have light forms that I've never seen before. That was really new or beyond orbs that I saw. But the thing that happened with your phone. Yes. Oh, yeah, exactly. And so I didn't know what was happening for Lisa, the channel at the time. I don't think any of us knew till later when you shared that when we were in the desert meditating together, we were in the desert meditating together. And I think that was a great opportunity for me to share that. A whole new being came through. In fact, a whole new grouping that had never come through before. And she was saying, please turn and look at me because this fellow. Who looked very American Indian slash agent, long black hair wearing a tunic was facing in the direction where I was sitting with two other, you know, everybody else, of course, but two other gals specifically. And she was definitely looking in that direction. And she was saying, please look at me. And he was annoyed. And then he, he sort of finally looked over his shoulder at Lisa. But with the idea, Hey, I'm working on somebody over here. And it's what, here's what happened because these were all disparate parts that when we, in the aftermath when we had the conversation, we were realizing the perfection of what had happened. And so here I am a first timer at this. I feel so grateful to be. And to be able to put into this family, these group of people, wonderful people have been working together and with Lisa for many, many years. And I'm brand new. I'm sitting in this lawn ish chair. My waters in one cup, my phone, my cell phone, which is completely turned off and silenced in the other. And out of nowhere, an alarm goes off. And I'm thinking it's the Southern fellow, Al. And he's diggin in his bag, When I realize it's my phone that's lit up, it's a medical alert that has gone off on its own and gone from medical alert to then dialing 911. I've never seen a medical alert. I don't know what to do. I'm desperately trying to shut it off. And later what I shared was I was in distress. I talked about this left side chronic problem and I was in a lot of distress sitting in the lawn chair for such a long period of time and I literally was in prayer like help me because I feel like I can't sit here anymore. Why I kept sitting? I don't know. I could have gotten up but that's where my head was at. And I will tell you another piece I didn't mention that at one point this grouping had said to Lisa, tell them us, the people attending, participating, they can ask for anything they want. And I said, great. Take it. Like here's all the stuff going on with my body. And in fact, I've had this little weird thing in my belly forever that is benign. It's a sebaceous cyst. They say we can't take it out because it's going to grow again. I'm like, please take that too because I just want to wear a two-piece bathing suit and feel good about it. Like I'm just through a couple of things in there. So what you don't know, I mean besides the fact that this huge shift in things going on now with my body since I came back that are positive. This cyst actually interrupted. And it may sound horrible, but actually I'm so grateful. I know they did something. I know they did this because this has been over two decades I've had it and nothing. And so it got erupted. So finally this dermatologist said, we have to take it out. And they did this little surgery and have little stitches that are healing. And I feel so good that it's out. I feel so right. And I was like, oh, it took me a few days to realize they facilitated that too without a doubt, I feel so blessed by that. Well, they were working on you and annoyed with me for interrupting. So that must have been what they were doing. So thank you. I know that was a huge tangent, but I think this is all like very cool for people to understand. I just want to read this for anyone who's wondering what's a wormhole. So Einstein, I don't know if he was the very first to bring this up, but he basically talked about field equations like gravity that acts as tunnels so that there is space and time and a trip that would normally take X amount of time. If we go through a wormhole, the trip is like that. And you can visualize it like it's a tunnel with two ends at separate points in space time. So as opposed to D, D, D, D, D, D, you're like, think in there. So forgive me. Let let me allow you to take back over the conversation for wormholes and time travel. I where should I go with it? That was enormous. So you were saying when we were out in the desert that it even we could actually employ that or they could to facilitate some things. Yes, I really think that's what happened because one of the other things that happened, as you know, was that the opposite side of the circle from where you were sitting, there were three people sitting together who were experiencing Arctic temperatures. Yes. And we're talking the guy, one of the guys was from the East Coast. So he's used to cold. He likes cold, but he was so frozen that he felt it was below 32. It was below freezing. And that's another example of kind of perhaps what happens with the energy in a circle when we kind of open one of those doorways or portals or wormholes through the contact work. There's lots of weird stuff. I could tell you a million things that's happened with that. But we certainly had our share of it that night. Yeah, so many questions, too, about that. But I was grateful. I had a profound experience, was perfect. And so all of this is so interesting to me. And what do you do, Lisa? What do you do for yourself on a daily basis? Like, do you have rituals or practice that you use? You could show up as your best healed self or your most integrated self? Well, in the interest of being authentic and vulnerable, I will say that this is one of the challenges for me because I tend to get so excited about my work and helping other people that I don't balance it with working with myself. So when I was involved with a lot of the yoga, that was the way to give back to myself. But things just kind of got crazy out of control. And I'm in a place right now of unbalance. But one of the things that I do is my husband has work. He calls quantum navigation, which is a type of meditation processing that helps you really see what's going on within yourself that is getting ready to come out and be healed. So I do that practice not every day, but often enough, and some yoga and things like that. It's just been very interesting with the pandemic that a lot of us have been home. And of course, home in Phoenix for the last six months has been you can't even go outside because it's too hot. So I've been missing nature. And once I can do that, going back to nature will be something that will be very healing for me as well. That's so beautiful. Yeah, interesting. Interesting, this out of balance piece. And thank you for being so honest with us. Hopefully we encourage you to take good care of yourselves because we need you right now. I'm on the hook now that I exposed myself. When we have you back on, we'll check back in with you. Yeah, better get busy. But we can all relate, right? I mean, it's very easy in today's time. I want to just, you know, I think this is so relevant. We started out with the galactic card and a lot of the things you shared. And there's this quote from Sasha in your Preparing for Contact book that I feel like really ties in here. And I like to read it so people see again about this emotional piece. And I also feel like it's a very COVID piece. Like if we're being locked inside and having to look at ourselves, perhaps this is very relevant. And the quote is this, therefore the contact experience will always be defined by the belief patterns in your subconscious. It is here that your belief systems will affect all the contact experiences you have. It is in the subconscious that you store your childhood and past life pain. This old pain is what forms your belief systems. When these beliefs are changed, the entire context experience changes with it. This is why emotional processing work is vital for humans. That work changes the subconscious belief systems which in turn changes the quality of your contact experiences. The processing work includes but is not limited to inner child work and healing your relationship with the parental archetype. We cannot express to you enough how profound this is. Ooh, thanks for that. That book's like 1994, so I didn't remember that. That's awesome. It's very, very true. This is how we can use the contact experience to work with ourselves. So if we are polarized inside, we're gonna see bad guys and good guys and we're gonna keep ourselves small instead of expanding into the galactic community which is not as polarized as our experience here on Earth. What are you next year to dream, Lisa? What are your future dreams and goals? That's interesting. I'm debating whether I want to say the first thing that came to my mind but because it might sound silly on the surface but this whole idea of contact, I feel like I want to live long enough in a healthy way to be able to enjoy the fruits of our connection with other civilizations. And hopefully the work that I'm doing is helping to plant those seeds so that our civilization can make that leap and move into that next step of our species that our species really needs to take if we are to survive and become a galactic species. So that's my ultimate dream is to be here and hopefully somehow participating in some of the first really big shifts on a planet level in terms of the contact experience. And you and Darryl Anka are still friends. This is true? Yes, we don't see each other that often but when we get a chance to, we do see each other. We actually own land in Arizona. A bunch of us own a bunch of land together. So, that's so cool. That's so great. We don't do anything with the land unfortunately. And the place for people to go to find out more about you is lisaroyal.net. Yes, L-Y-S-S-A-R-O-Y-A-L.net. Beautiful. Lisa, I hope this is the first of at least many. One more, several more times you're on the show. There's so much more to talk about. I thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thank you so much. It's been a lot of fun and thank you for your inquisitive mind which is one of my favorite things about you. Thank you. I end today's show with this quote. And this one's interesting. This is called communication with extraterrestrial. I grabbed this from a paper released by the National Academy of Sciences. It was written by Lambrose D. Calamajos. And here is that quote from the National Academy of Sciences paper. And it is, we are not alone in the universe. A few years ago, this notion seemed far-fetched. Today, the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence is taken for granted by most scientists. Sir Bernard Lovell, one of the world's leading radio astronomers has calculated that even allowing for a margin of error of five million and three, there must be in our own galaxy about 100 million stars which have planets of the right chemistry, dimensions and temperature to support organic evolution. If we consider that our own galaxy, the Milky Way is but one of at least a billion other galaxies similar to ours in the observable universe, the number of stars that could support some form of life is to reach for a word astronomical. Subscribe to the Dare to Dream podcast and hear this weekly number one transformation conversation. The next upcoming guest is Amanda Jane Clarkson. She's the co-founder and editor of Millionaris Magazine. And she's the author of From Frustrated to Fabulous. She's also a business mentor. Amanda featured me in her recent Millionaris Magazine. I'm bringing her on the show from Australia as she encourages the elevation of self-worth, net worth and life worth. If you enjoy this show, be sure to subscribe, let your friends know and leave us a kind review. And if you love what you're hearing on podcasts, just remember you can see myself and my guests at youtube.com slash debbie dashinger. Don't just dare to dream. Dare to create all your dreams into your reality.