 Hey everybody, today we're debating whether or not there is a war on women and we are starting right now with our leftists on the left side of the screen as well as Brenton on the top. And those of our participants who are on the right are on the right side of your screen, including Marie on the very bottom. And with that, thanks very much. Brenton, for your opening statement, we'll let you get the ball rolling for the next two minutes. The floor is all yours. So I've been thinking about this issue a lot. Do in large part to the unilateral and unpopular overturning of Roe v. Wade. I think before we say anything, we need to define our terms because language is tricky and a single word or phrase can have multiple meanings. A fact that is absolutely exploited by busy body culture warriors for clicks, cash, and clout. Those of you who saw my debate with James Hake of the Hake Report may remember that I view gender and gender roles essentially as cultural ideals. To me, men and women are ideas. They are boxes into which complicated human beings are shoved by society, whether it's a good fit or not. But in essence, a war against women is a war against ideas and it is more or less a fool's errand because to quote Alan Moore, ideas are bulletproof. So then if I am to answer yes to this proposition, it cannot be a war in the literal sense. Instead, when I say yes, there is a war on women, I mean something very specific. I mean women as a social group are on average the victims of discrimination, both systematically by authorities and laws and socially by norms and widely held prejudices. And this discrimination is somewhat unique to their gender which is to say women are discriminated against in ways that men are not. Now, the truth of this proposition should be plainly obvious to everyone. And to be frank, I think on a certain level it is, hence the need for political reactionaries to mount hysterical, pun very much intended, response to attempts by activists and institutions to ameliorate this problem and redress these grievances. Some people just cannot handle change and that moral and intellectual failing leads them to some very dark places which I hope we will avoid tonight. But if I'm to do this, I need to prove my case. And so what needs to be brought up is the concept of structural violence which in short is a form of indirect violence that results from the social structures and institutions harming people by preventing them from meeting their basic needs or in some other way imposing on their basic human rights in a way that harms them physically and mentally. This is obviously happening. The most glaring way in which it is expressed is the most recent ruling on Roe v. Wade. The USA already has huge problems with maternal mortality, the worst in the developed world and nearly twice that of our nearest neighbors, France and Canada. And by direct use of state violence to force an unwilling woman to remain pregnant against her will, many women will lose their lives while many more will experience exponential hardships due to this foolishness. Two minutes. Thank you very much for that, Brent. Well, it can get over. And there's quite a bit more. Yeah, I got some things to say about that. Am I good to jump in here? Yeah. 100%. I mean, I'm surprised that when you said that the war on women is a war on ideas, I thought we were actually gonna talk about the kind of social treatment of women. And I'm surprised you jumped straight into laws, especially considering, you know, if we look at the legal system, women are far more likely to get shorter prison sentences for the same crime as men. When we come to hiring practices. Will you notice I said laws that we're like, to want to keep the interruptions to a minimum? Yeah, okay, okay. When it comes to hiring practices, they're more likely to be given favorable treatment due to things like affirmative action. And then to bring up Roe v. Wade as a aspect of the war against women, but Roe v. Wade, and certainly conservative's position on it, has absolutely nothing to do with women. And has everything to do with whether a fetus is a human being or not. That's the discussion. Not, are we going to oppress women or not? Do we need to prevent murder in this case or not? Which is what conservatives believe. And it's always an extremely disingenuous thing, in my opinion, when people bring up things like ectopic pregnancies, or when they bring up maternal mortality, I cannot think of a single case where Republican lawmaker, Republican commentator, anyone who is against abortion has stated that we should let a mother die if there is some sort of complication that requires an abortion. That has never been an argument from the right wing. That has never been an argument from people promoting laws against abortion. There has always been space for things like treatments against ectopic pregnancies or treatments to help the mother to survive in those cases. So I think all of the points that you've brought up in your opening statement are a bit moot for this discussion. Can I respond or does somebody else need to talk? I think we're doing an opening statement. So I'll go first, even though I'm conservative, I kind of have a different viewpoint. I think there's a war on men and women, and I think that you can just prove it why you say, how is there a war on women if you're on the conservative side? Well, you look at Leah Thomas, she swam on the men's team for three years, she's ranked 457th, and then got to take gender hormone therapies and compete against the women. So in my mind, that's against women. And also, I think abortion, letting women get into abortion is a war on women because that's actually killing half the babies would be women, so that's actually murdering women. And then on top of that, the idea of feminism is a war on women by making women work in the workforce their whole life instead of having a family. I think women are meant to be mothers. It's their job to have babies. It's their job to do traditional family roles. And so this whole feminism movement is a war on women now. Obviously, I think it's, you know, the trans movement too is a big war on women because it's 72 genders versus men and women. So I would say that equally that men and women, you know, biologic males and biological females have a war against him, against whatever you want to call it, maybe the gay mafia, I don't know, whatever you want to call it, but it's something is there is a war waging on biological sex because they want every kid to be indoctrinated and sexualized at a young age so that they have gender confusion and body dysmorphia. And so that they take, you know, hormone blockers or puberty blockers and change their, you know, gender for the rest of their lives. So I think when you look at the entire gender war, you know, they can't even define what is a woman they had to change it in a Webster's dictionary to the opposite of a man, basically. So yes, there's a war on both biological sexes. And I think it's pretty simple. I know Britton won't agree with this, but they said in kindergarten cop, boys have a penis, girls have a vagina, and I think it's that simple. So I think there is a war on both sexes, even though I'm conservative, I think there's a bigger war on men, but I still think there's a war on biological females. Yeah, if I could jump in on that, I also am inclined to say that there is a war on women. And before I knew the exact topics, how this debate would be broken down, I also interpreted it to be a discussion about like transgender rights. And I think that if you go and ask these people, these lefty types like Vash, and they will outright tell you that their goal is to abolish gender. I've had these debates with these people. And I think that that's a real mistake. I think that there are innate differences between men and women behaviorally, as well as biologically. And I really despise that the transgender identity and like whether or not dysphoria exists within some population has been like weaponized as a way to destroy the concept of gender. Like moreover, I think that when you look at the ways in which women are discriminated against in like the workplace and whatnot, I think what you find is that really, there are these innate differences and they're contributing towards lower pay, but for a very good reason. Like women, I think hold a civilizational burden to have children and to care for children when they're in infancy and that's difficult and it's hard and it should be lauded. And that's why you see these lower wages. I also think that like there's real virtue in having boundaries to the gender identities that exists. Like I think that in order for something to have meaning or value, it can't be something that anyone can just opt into. It has to have restrictions. And so I think the desire to destroy those boundaries and those restrictions is also a kind of desire to like destroy the potential virtue within the archetypes themselves. But I think that's just one side of it. And the other side of it is that you have people who have like rightly observed that there are all these difficulties with incorporating women into the workforce and into politics, but I think that like they are just taking this in the complete wrong direction and they want another kind of war on women where they wanna bring them back to like medieval times, bring them back into the home. And while that's valuable in some ways, I think that in the modern economy where human capabilities extend far beyond just your muscle strength, women have a lot to contribute politically and intellectually and whatnot. And what we need to do is learn how to manage female pathology which scales across the internet in the same way that we've learned to manage male pathology through our institutions. And we need to do that so that women can contribute without also corrupting or making the public square worse. Andrew, you're from the right? I'll say mine, I'll do it first. Hang on, we already heard from a girl on the right. You're on the right, you needed to let me go first. All right, thank you. Well, I'm sure you have a lot of great things to say. Okay, but I wanna talk first. So my position, I guess, is probably the most extreme on this side. I know I probably, I thought I was arguing against Lauren Southern actually on this. I know, aren't you disappointed? I am. We haven't talked since the Boogaloo stream, my friend. We got a chat. It's been a long, yeah, it's been a long time. Well, we talked a little bit during the Thought War as well. I don't know if you recall that, but we talked a little during that as well. But so anyway, so I'm kind of the odd ball, I guess, in the group. Good morning, by the way, and thanks everybody for being here. I think it's gonna be a fun debate. I just wanna say that I- Wait, did you just say good morning? Yeah, I just woke up like 10, 20 minutes ago. So- Classic Jameru. Disgusting. Disgusting, yeah, you wanna talk, you know, a lot of that disgusting, their whole life is disgusting. But anyway, so- Listen, I wanna say this. I wanna say this. I wanna say this. We'll get into that later. I think that there is not a war against women. I think the war is against men. And I think the problem is that we are not waging a war against women. I think that women are the author of most of the problems in the society. I think that women's liberation, starting a couple hundred years ago is the beginning of the end of Western civilization. I think that women being educated, women going into the workforce. I think that women raising young men, I think that prostitutes running our country and women being elevated through affirmative action, I think it's completely wrecking the country in basically every way. I think that women essentially have kind of two trajectories in life. They can be mothers and prostitutes. I think that's, those are really the main tracks throughout history that women become. They're really defined by their sexuality, as opposed to men. Men are sort of intermittently sexual. Women are thoroughly sexual. They're defined by that relationship with men. And so I think they can either do that within the binds of marriage and do that being a mother and having children, or they could do that selling their sexuality in some way, which is kind of what they do all the time in the modern society. And we don't think of it always that way, but if you look at it, that's kind of what they're doing. So I would say that there's not a war against women. Women are being elevated. And we talked about this in the last one, I think, Alex Stein and Duby and our girl Stardust were there for that one. I think the war is against men, and that's really the problem. The war should be against women and sort of reducing their role in society back to, I think they're a biological disposition, which is to be mothers and homemakers. So that's my position, but I recognize that's probably not the position of anybody else on our side, but that's my position. So my position is basically to say that that elevation you speak of is actually the war on women. Women are being sold this idea that you're gonna be happier, more fulfilled being an HR rather than say, just going to university just to go to university and then being a mother after because a lot of people just do that. A lot of women just go to school just to maybe meet a mate. That's a great place to meet someone if you want someone with economic standing is someone, maybe a doctor or a lawyer who is going to go to university and that's a good way of meeting them and also being socially elevated, I guess, is the way a lot of people used to think of university and a lot of women used to go to university just for social elevation rather than a career, but women are now being sold this idea that you're not gonna be fulfilled, you're gonna be depressed if you stay at home, you're gonna be depressed if you don't have a career when a lot of times we see women are actually, once they've gone up in that career, they hit their mid-30s, they haven't had a child yet and that's kind of when this depression kind of starts lingering in of the idea of I'm not married yet, I'm not in this position that say a lot of society would have said I should be and I kind of want to be, but now I can't. So the war on woman is the idea being sold to women that a career is more fulfilling than other aspects of womanhood that you would generally think of being part of womanhood. Any thoughts from Duby or Stardust? Sure, I can give my statement. So I myself would probably not use the language that there is a war on woman, but there is a long history in most places of socially and legally restricting women's rights and freedoms and while things have gotten massively better through the decades for women, there are still areas where women lack the agency and freedom that men have. As far as this idea about whether women should work or not, it has rarely been the case in history that women didn't work. In fact, the only people who actually had that privilege were wealthy women and in a lot of traditional societies, it wasn't just women who worked, but children worked too. So that whole idea of women- Homemaking is a job. Just putting that out there. They don't make it or it's definitely a job. I understand that, but if we're talking historically, beyond homemaking, women historically did work unless they were wealthy. When they were wealthy, they were able to be a homemaker primarily, but in most cases, women and their children would work from a very young age. And I also, I don't deny that men face unique problems as well. However, the problems that men face, like stifling emotions, higher suicide rates, failure to be believed as sexual assault victims are not privileges that benefit women. Yeah, if I can jump in really quickly after Stardust, like my great-grandmother, her mother gave birth to her in a field and then wrapped her in a towel, took her into the house, went back out and finished the day's harvest. So yeah, women absolutely work. Yeah, and decades ago, children were- That's a different kind of working because you're working on your property, on your- But working in the farm is very labor-intensive. It's much more labor-intensive than a lot of jobs today, so. Well, yeah, but that's the essence of labor. We're selling the idea to a woman that you wanna just write emails for the rest of your life and that's gonna be more fulfilling than, say, having kids and working in the field and actually owning- I mean, what we can say the same thing about men, maybe it would be more fulfilling for a lot of men to just work in the field and not be inside and typing emails and all that, right? Everyone has sold this. Everyone has sold the idea that just like, maximizing money so you can buy funko pops or whatever. It's like the key to success in life. And I think most people realize as they get older that that's not true. And a lot of women who are very career-oriented, they realize this and then they drop out of their career earlier than men do. I think we're all agreeing that capitalism is garbage, which I'm 1,000%- No, I'm not agreeing to that. No, no, no, no, I don't think that capitalism is garbage, but I do think there's something to the idea that there is, when you talk about, okay, women have to be mothers in the home with the children all day and men have to go out and work the wage-y nine to five, that also is in tradition. I think that's a kind of silly idea that the right have developed because they base a lot of their social constructs around the fifties. Whereas I think the whole idea of the nuclear family, it kind of defeats the community. It should be a community working together. Mothers all working and raising children together. The men should be including their children in their work. It used to be super common for kids to go out and work with dad in the field, go on the tractor, enjoy that partake in that. And the idea that women should just be in this box where they spend all day with the kid, it's good. It's fun, it's wonderful. Also takes away from a father's fullness of life where he would want to go and bring his child to enjoy whatever his work life was. But it's definitely been a restructuring of our society of making everyone work in cubicles and have this nine to five travel, got to make work my entire life instead of family and community and working with the people around me. So there are real things that you guys are pointing to. Well, what I would say is that, again, that you may not be wrong that men used to spend more time with children because children would go out and work with them and children used to work at a much earlier age, but there are benefits to children not working, right? Like workplace injuries. Yeah. I'm not saying bring your child to the factory. Yeah, but it used to be that like, bring your son to pick a car with you, you know? There would be like, it used to be that there would be like people who would work in tobacco and you'd have children as young as like six helping, you know, work with tobacco and stuff like that. So I think there are benefits to children not working anymore, but I definitely see that. Not what I'm saying, but. Yeah, no, I get, yeah, I see. I may have misinterpreted. So I'm sorry. Lauren, you mentioned before we start, Brent, if you can turn your audio down just a slight smidge and then Brent, go ahead. Yeah, Lauren. So I'm hearing you complain about people getting forced into cubicles and having their traditional ways of life destroyed and people being forced to work outside of the home. Yeah, that all of that is happening and they're being forced to work for people who aren't them, who own property, who are capitalists. I'm not seeing how you're not making. Listen, the fact that all of these things you don't like are, yeah, all these things you don't like are being done for profit. Real capitalism has never been tried. No, of course there are problems with capitalism. It's a complex, broken system, but it's the best we've got. And a lot of what we're dealing with is corporatism and also government pushes and social pushes towards certain types of work styles and certain workforces. And a lot of, you know, the big companies with the cubicles tend to be far more favored by governments and government contracts than small businesses, which families used to be able to run together. Well, of course. Because if you're powerful, you take control of the state. A lot of that has to do with government intervention. So we see all these policies come into place that are promoting corporatism and kind of hurting these smaller community jobs and small businesses. You don't sit there and blame capitalism. You can, but that's a really weak point in my opinion. Capitalism is a part of it. I would disagree with you. I think it's a very strong point. It's a lot of social issues. Oh, I just don't understand, I guess. This is the real war. No, it's a tough thing to get to your mind. I just need to figure out. Well, you know, instead, because of capitalism, instead of people working for, so sorry. I don't think we've heard from Duby at all. Duby, any thoughts? I do have thoughts, actually. Go ahead. So I think as we just, I was actually like really interested in what you guys were saying. So I think as we just heard here, I think there's room to argue that there is an attack on women from both sides of the political spectrum. I think that if you're on the right, you could argue that the concept of womanhood itself has been dismantled in academia through a gender ideology. It's been pushed on children in schools, been pushed on the rest of us through corporate policy and censorship. And if you're on the left, you could argue that the overturning of early Wade is the latest attack on women from a religious right wing attempting to reassert its ownership of women's bodies, lifestyles, et cetera. I think that those positions though are kind of missing the point. I think the truth is that women have historically been socially and politically oppressed or at least conditioned to fill subservient roles to further like a patriarchal norm in our society. Whether you're not, you think that's a good thing, right? That they're supposed to be in these roles naturally is I think just gonna blow it down to like your preferences and your upbringing or whatever the fuck. But I think that the reality is that we've seen that oppression kind of fall away. Well, I'd consider depression. We've seen that fall away. And while I'd argue that there is like overcorrection in some areas where you have women getting basically affirmative action that's pushing them into academia and leaving men behind in a lot of cases and or celebrating them and attacking the concept of masculinity while pushing women forward as a girl boss and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think there has been overcorrection in some areas, right? And there is like work to do in other areas, but I don't think it makes sense to call any of this or on women. It just seems like the culture is changing or understanding of women's role in society is changing. They're understanding of like men's role in society is changing, but there's not a war here. It's just... The question is, is it for the better? Yeah. I think that's gonna blow down to... I think that's gonna blow down to... So Nick, for example, Nick would probably say that, hey, you teaching these women that they should be out there granting away nine to five and not at home raising children, keeping the house clean, et cetera, et cetera, learning all the good things that come with motherhood, et cetera. You teaching them to go out and do that to leave their households and to go out and slave away for these capitalist comebacks or whatever. That's actually an attack on women. That's not you presenting no more possibilities. That's you giving them chains in the disguise of freedom and choices or options or whatever the fuck. All you're really doing is enslaving them to the same capitalist monster that the rest of us are enslaved. Wouldn't that not be a war on women? Just a war on those sexes? I think the women should be enslaved but just by their husbands instead of... Yeah. Well, okay, but the point that Doobie is making is that again, in response to what Lauren just said, the point that Doobie is making is that women are, in that way, they're basically in the subservient role, right? And it may be true, yes, it certainly is true that there are disadvantages to being a man in society, but those disadvantages for men often negatively affect women in addition, right? Whereas the disadvantages towards women don't really affect men in the same way. Well, but the thing is that women's role historically has been that way because women are cooperative and men are competitive. That is distilled down the essence of the male... Well, women are competitive against one another, though. Hang on, I did not. Forget about that. ...cooperative, they're side-by-side. But not to one another. Women are extremely competitive. I have a question. I have a question. Just to be sure. Nick, are you married? Everybody's talking simultaneously and then nobody can hear anybody. So just one at a time. Yeah, Nick, are you married? Yeah, I'm married to the game. Shut the fuck up. No, you're not. Now, here's the thing. First of all, what you're saying is you have a question for me. Do you have a question for me? Did Marie give you a question? No, I didn't have a question. Lauren, go ahead, Lauren. No, Nick, I assume you agree there are outliers to that rule. Like there are men who are more cooperative than competitive, although outliers vice versa. Yeah. Yeah, we have this trans individual and the debate and you'd certainly have lesbians. So, yeah, of course there are outliers, but try about the general rule. Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK, so I just, I'm wondering within, let's say society had a general rule that were in line with your ideals for what you want society to be like. Would you still allow for room for outliers? So like, let's say a woman who's like a Margaret Thatcher type really wants to partake in business or whatever. And maybe she's even infertile, can't have kids, no one wants to marry her. Would you still allow space in your society for her to kind of partake? No, no. And I think that historically that's not true. I think historically these exceptions are not allowed. And I think there's a danger in allowing the exceptions because in cases like that, it almost concedes the principle and it's unfortunate, but society is clunky. And these are the kinds of things where you can't tell the society, well, women are mostly like this, but some are not really and some can do what they want. The problem is that society creates its own ideals. Thank you, Lauren. Thank you for sticking out for me like that. Yeah, so I think that women should not be telling men what to do. And I think it sets a bad example. I think that, and this is what you'll hear all the time from women and from feminists is, well, what about the biker girl? What about the girl that is really good at math or whatever? And yeah, that's great and everything. But because of that, we've set this example where now everybody thinks that there's no principle at work here that we're all individuals and everybody's got a limitless capability and so everybody should have a limitless opportunity. And that's created a completely co-ed egalitarian society. There needs to be a society that is clearly bifurcated between the domain of the men and the women. And I agree with you. I think that you're right about the nuclear family and you're right about what we consider women's work. And I'm not saying women should be necessarily in the house, but they should be in the domain of women. They should be the nest builders with the other women in the community, like they were with the ancient days and historically, what the history of men as lawyers and doctors. Ancient days and historically, we could look to Greece where men were fucking little boys' flies, and this was totally socially acceptable. So I don't know why we'd appeal to history and how things used to be in ancient societies. We're in 2022. And I don't want to do this the current year I mean, but it is a current year. Why would we be shaping our society based on shit that happened 2,000 years ago? I'm not saying we should base it on that because it's old. I'm saying that that's the... Well, yeah, well, give me a reason. That's the model. It literally isn't. Where your family is anomalous compared to the long view of history. We should do these things because they're consistent with our nature, not necessarily because they're old, although they are old. Well, as in paternity consistent with our nature. What's that? Yeah, we could argue that. Well, as in paternity consistent with our nature, you know, in ancient Greece, older men would take young boys as like apprentices and part of that relationship was them putting olive oil in the young boys' thighs and fucking it, right? So like, I'm not sure what that has to do with... Yeah, can I bring the conversation back on track here? Look, if we're making an appeal to the way that things used to be in tradition... We have minimal time. Listen, I got 20 minutes. Go for it. Oh, I'm sorry. Nick, I think you might be setting yourself up for failure there because what you're gonna do is there's always gonna be these outliers that exist and you're gonna have women that are genuinely completely miserable in this sort of family role, right? Yes, they will be the exception. No, I love being a mother. They will be the exception and they're gonna wanna read, they're gonna wanna partake. And necessarily in their misery, they'll probably start some sort of feminist uprising so that they can partake rather than naturally just being allowed to partake where and when they can and compete with men where and when they can. Well, the natural social order still stays in place within your ideals. The thing is the women cannot compete with men. If women try to compete with men, they would physically get killed. There's no woman. It depends on how they're competing. It depends on what arena it is. I wanna make one point. I wanna just make one point though that women do have a lot of power though. They hold it in their pussy because this is why there's an old Chinese proverb that says a key that'll open every lock is a master key but a lock that will open with any key is a shitty lock. So what I'm saying is women, even a fat ugly woman can get laid a million times that a fat ugly guy can't. Women do have, when you talk about the war on women they actually have a lot of power of the pus. So that's something men don't have. Yeah. I mean, I think there's a point that Nick is making. That's really interesting here. And it goes back to like the historical reasons for why women were not involved in much of the economy. And it's because of like much of human history women could not effectively contribute to most important economic and political things. Women could not wield a sword as well as men. They could not till the fields as well as men. And so like it makes perfect sense that you wouldn't like have women leading kingdoms because the majority of the population would not have built up respect for her through like going to battle with her, right? But the fact of the matter is now is that like our modern economy has shifted such that we rely less on physical muscles and the economy relies more on intellectual developments. And so like either there's all of this research into how women exist in STEM and in various fields of higher learning and contribution to the economy. And the reality is that like women do not, they still don't take up all of those high prestigious spots. They're not the ones winning the awards. Men are still doing that, but that's not to say that women aren't contributing anything. In fact, women's like contribution to the economy now is massive. And if you wanna have a civilization that is powerful, you need to harness all of it. And so here's the thing, you could have a civilization of us women in the home and they're to be great homemakers. But when you compare that to a culture and a civilization that knows how to utilize women as homemakers and as mothers, but also allows them to contribute to the economy when they're able to, that civilization will be far superior to the one that doesn't. And it's really that simple at the end of the day. We wanna create things that last. And the way you do that is to find a way to include women. You're here. Okay, wait, wait, wait. Sorry, I'm really curious about Nick's thoughts on this because you say, yeah, allow women to compete. But the problem always has been when we allow women to compete, we do have to give them too often like a handicap to allow them to compete with men where Nick was saying women will generally lose. So what I would say my argument is, Nick, is let them lose, allow them to compete in a egalitarian society and let them lose and let people learn that social rule on their own without any of the handicaps. Sure, if you wanna go join the WW, whatever wrestling thing against men, great, go die. Go join the army, get shot on the front lines, let women lose without the handicap and people will learn the rule. And then the women who are absolutely exceptional will actually have done so of their own accord and no one will have to look at them twice and think, hey, you're only here because you're a woman and the government forced you into this position. There's a spoken assumption here that is being made by a lot of people, both by Nick and Lauren. Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name. Every fool from king to policeman, from flat-headed parson to visionless dabbler in science presumes to speak authoritatively of human nature. The greater the mental charlatan, the more definite his insistence on the wickedness and weakness of human nature. Yet how can anyone speak of it today with every soul in a prison, with every heart fettered, wounded and maimed? Emma Goldman. The fact of the matter is, is that this idea that women are homemakers and mothers, like, yes, they are literally mothers. But the fact of the matter is, is that we have been on this planet as a species for 250,000 years. For 244,000 years, we did not have the state and lived as nomadic hunter-gatherers. And if we look both at the historical fossil record and at contemporary hunter-gatherers today, you find that these are the most gender-equal societies on the planet because everyone has to be educated in every aspect of the culture. So really, we're talking, when you guys are talking about this, being somehow like women's immutable essence, it's just not true. It is objectively wrong. It is, it just feels like an immutable essence because- Who did the gathering? Wait, what is- Who did the gathering, though? They both did. Everyone in the society. No, I don't. The hunting and gathering. It depends. The hunters left for weeks on end and the gatherers had to go every single day to feed the tribe or whatever. The community at the time. But the hunters, no, yes, this is actually- Just saying this, it's not true. One second. I think this is like an old idea. Yeah, so it depends on the society, right? Because, you know, believe it or not, we live in a very diverse place and even traditionally things are pretty diverse. But again, I would reiterate that even in these more traditional societies, maybe women were more confined to certain types of work, but they still worked, right? And children worked too. And just because things like Dooby made this excellent point earlier, just because things were a certain way in traditional society doesn't mean that they're good. Children also died a whole lot more. Children also participated in dangerous work environments. So, yeah, tradition does not mean that it's going to be better for the family or for the children. But I would say that, actually nevermind. I haven't heard anyone make the argument that tradition is good because of tradition or that things are good because it's- It sounded like that's what- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He said, I'm not arguing for these things because they're old or because they're tradition. He said he's arguing for them because they are in line with human nature. So we have to actually- Yes, which he doesn't know. But also that he's facing it. You have to make an argument again. Sure, sure. Lauren, if I can respond to you, right? Just saying you guys think it's good because it's old. Okay, so just Brent, no offense, but you have a problem of interrupting people. So stop it. And then last time, before you interrupted, Lauren, I think you were speaking and then Stardust will come to you after and then last will come to Brent and after everybody else. Oh no, yeah, I was basically just saying that the point being made here isn't that tradition is good because it's tradition quite the opposite. In fact, I think I've attacked the idea that we need to emulate the fifties. The idea here is what society works best in line with human nature. So the argument has to be around what is the nature of a woman and what is the nature of a man? Are women more timid? Are women more suited in better roles? In better roles that are more towards being a mother, towards being et cetera, et cetera. Are men more suited as hunters? I'd rather hear the leftists on the panel engage with that concept rather than this appeal to you guys just think it's good because it's tradition. I haven't heard that argument made once. Okay, so I guess, and to respond to that then, I guess what I would say is that, there's no doubt that there are differences between men and women. There's no doubt that men and women gravitate to different things even in the most gender equal countries, you'll see men and women actually diverge even more than they do normally in which careers they choose. But they're still choosing careers. So I'm not denying that there are certain trends among based on your biology and based on your sex, right? But there are always going to be outliers and I think these outliers are a lot more common than we give credit to. And there are ways that also we benefit from women being in the workplace. There have been studies that show that women might be making better doctors than men. So I mean, that's what I would say in response to that. Yeah, let me just jump in here and say, where all this comes from with nature? It comes from biology. It comes from what we know about biology and what we know about physicality. And you can throw your head back like that but women are weaker than men. And so, Lauren says, well, why don't we just let the men compete with the women? That makes sense if we're talking about a controlled sort of constructed competition with rules and a referee and things like that. But the world is not like that. The state of nature is not like that. There are not rules and there's not a referee and there's not a sort of artificial surrogate goal. There is just all against all. And the kinds of societies that emerge from that throughout all of history everywhere. And I love when left to spring this up to like, well, we found a village in the Amazon jungle. Where there was a woman priestess or something like that. It's like, okay, but every other civilization, whether it's the Arabs or it's the Russians, Chinese, Japanese, Europeans, it's male kings. It's male generals. It's male dominated, male superpowers. That was the Soviet Union, that was Rome, that was America, that's all of it. And primarily that kind of situation prevails because men are physically stronger. And when it comes down to it in the world, men can make women do what they want because they're stronger. Also, and this goes back to the ancient role of men as well as, and you could say, oh, well we have the United Nations now so strength doesn't matter. Men are historically the hunters. Men are the ones that went out and fought the game. Men are, or fought to kill the game and bring that back home to eat. I don't, men are also smarter than women as well. Men can outsmart women. They can also beat women up. And that's why men are the kings, the philosophers and mathematicians, engineers. And again, the only reason why this is not the case anymore, the only reason why we have this kind of, there's this challenge from women in the societies because they're being given affirmative action. They're essentially being paid by the state. It's essentially a subsidy. There's all kinds of quotas in academia. There's quotas in the workplace. And essentially it's like the government is paying these people to be these things in any kind of normal society. There's no way they would be able to compete with men. So the question is not, we'll let women compete with men. If you subtracted all the sort of constructs of society, men would win every competition and they beat women up if they couldn't. And so they'd win those too. It's only that we have this kind of managerial state where they're enforcing, they're enforcing and trying to create an artificial equality where there is no such thing, not in fact, not in theory. And so if we took all of that away, sort of natural thing would resume. And it's always fighting back. You see that in women's preferences as children. You see that even in preferences for women as adults, women's nature and rebellion against what's being pushed on them artificially. It's irrepressible. I wanna bump it over to Duby or... Oh, I got five more minutes. So can I respond to that? Sure. Sorry. Nick, I was saying the opposite of what you just said I'm saying. I'm saying allow women to compete in that free for all and then allow people to naturally see them fail without the structure, without the rules. And then the women who are absolutely exceptional if they succeed, they'll succeed because of their own merit. I am curious though, who do you think structured the society where women are getting all of this affirmative action? Because assuming that men are so powerful, which I do believe they are stronger and on average smarter. This is just statistical truths. Would there not be some sort of concept that it was men that created and structured the society to a degree, especially because they had power for so long and perhaps the issue is less with all women causing this, but with some moral failing in men as well that allowed them to allow this civilization to persist. So I think it's kind of ridiculous that we're appealing to the fact that women were better suited to stay in the cave with kids in hunter gatherer societies or behind walls or whatever the fuck. When we're communicating with each other, we're communicating with each other across the fucking planet in real time through esoteric lightning magic and I'm a fucking frog, right? I don't understand. And again, maybe it worked back then, right? Sure, but men don't need to go out and hunt mammoths anymore, right? There are plenty of jobs that need to be done to sustain our society that don't require physical strength. Our understanding of the roles of men and women, I think they're gonna be molded by the circumstances we're in. And in the modern day, it's very beneficial to our society to have women involved in workplace and academia and in politics. So give me a good reason. Tell me, give me a way that the gender roles and social norms of the cave mandates or the medial period are useful today. Why are they more useful than what we're doing right now? Wait, I have to disagree with you that you don't think men need to be strong or even have strength in order to defend your pro... Well, you kind of did say that there's no need for men to be able to. I said men don't need to go out and hunt mammoths anymore, right? We don't need to send people out every day. You said they don't need the physical strength. They don't need that physical strength. They don't. They can get a gun. They can buy it. We're not fighting. You do need a lot less strength than you used to. You can shoot them in the fucking face, right? It's fine. But you need the strength in order to defend your property at the end of the day. No, because I would say the strength needed to defend your property is still nothing in comparison to like going out and hunting and the endurance required to go out and hunt at for a long period of time. You had a horse. Who the fuck has a horse these days? Yeah. You know, in the days when they did the hunting, they were hunting with one woman, though. So does anyone... The horses suck compared to a car. I think Alex Stein... Like hunting is not... Go ahead, Alex. Yeah, well, when we talk about the strength... When we talk about the strength of men versus women, I mean, it's obvious that men are stronger than women, but I don't know how that necessarily, you know, means there's a war on women because we're stronger. So I'm kind of confused where the argument's gone in that direction. I mean, I keep making this point. And it's like, I think it should be very apparent. And I think Duby is, or yeah, Duby is like keying into this, which is that like the economy has changed. Such that women can contribute a lot more with a lot less muscle power. And when women are competing with men in a lot of these arenas, for example, like the intellectual arena of like publishing papers, right? Like that is not the kind of competition where you're worried about the physical safety of women if they're losing the competition, which is why I'm sympathetic to what Lauren Southern is saying when she's saying that like, just let women compete with men. Because like women can compete with men in the area of like STEM papers. And let's say women mostly lose because men are better at like the right tail of the distribution of intellectual competency. Let's say most women lose. Well, you're still going to have women who are contributing to the general advancement of science and knowledge in that case, even if they're not getting the most prestigious awards and papers. So like, I think that like, what we really care about is just making sure that we are maximally utilizing every part of our culture to create the best kind of society we can. And the way to do that is to allow women to contribute in a way that doesn't necessarily take away from their child rearing and from their motherhood, which is totally possible. If I can just, I just want to say real quick, James, people are saying that you should stop streaming on Twitch because I believe Nick is banned on Twitch. Nick, are you okay with being on Twitch? I don't care, but you know, if you want to, if you don't want your channel to be banned. I'd like to, let's just say something earlier. Let's let it fly. Go ahead. Oh, by the way, so Lauren has to go. So Lauren, any closing words before, Lauren's going to be replaced by someone who decided they would jump in on Lauren's behalf, but any last words before you do have to take off Lauren. Muted myself, woman moment. Yeah, I'm sorry I have to take off so quick. It would have been fun to stay around longer. I would have enjoyed. I'll definitely be back on an evening where I have more time. Everyone, if you want to continue watching the stream, you can go to modern day debate on YouTube, check that out. I haven't quite figured out how to do a stream raid thing. So I'm sorry, my friend, but hopefully they'll find it. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Thank you for coming on. Thanks so much for your time, Lauren. All right, cheers. Have a good one, guys. See you later. In just a moment, a surprise guest will be on, jumping in place of Lauren. So that'll take just a few minutes. In the meantime, do want to remind you folks, our guests, every single one of them, Taff, AKA April, Brenton, Alex Stein, Duby, Nick, Stardust, Marie, and our upcoming guest, and Lauren are all linked in the description. So if you'd like to hear more, you certainly can. If you click on their links below, that includes at the podcast, as every debate at modern day debate is put under the podcast within 24 hours. And one last thing in terms of channel introductions, want to say welcome. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from, whether you be politically left, politically right, you name it. We're glad you are here. There are many more juicy debates coming up. In fact, this Saturday, Richard Spencer and TikTok star, Kendin Farr, will be debating abortion. So you don't want to miss that one, hit that subscribe button, and our new guest, our surprise guest, is jumping in right now. Welcome, Destiny. There he is. No way! Welcome, Destiny. Wow, let's go. Good to see you again. Let's go. Let's go. Well, let's hear Destiny's opening statement. What's your statement? Go for it, Destiny. What's the topic? What are you talking about? Anything you'd like to say. These are war on women. The war on women. Fuckin' much, we hate women. What's the last thing? Fuck that statement. Let me, this is my, first of all, James. Nice tattoo, okay? You appreciate that. Okay, here's the society that we should build, okay? All of you are wrong. Okay, now I'm just kidding. Balls. I think this should be the goal, okay? We have some sexual traits that are varied between men and women. That much is true. Men tend to be taller. Men tend to be stronger. Women might be gravitating more towards like caregiver type things, psychology, et cetera, et cetera. We can recognize that there are some realities here and accept that that is the case. But just because we have to acknowledge that there are some differences, I don't think that means that we have to build a restrictive society that prevents somebody from stepping outside of those differences. There might be a gay dude that's really fucking good at making certain types of shoes. Let him make shoes. He doesn't have to live the life of a fucking hunter-gatherer that's ready to shoot and kill criminals, breaking into his wife's home. He could live with his boyfriend in San Francisco and make awesome clothes. There might be a woman out there who she does wanna go into the military. She does the work. She lifts a lot. She's tall, fucking brand of charter, whatever. Let her fucking do it if she can. I think that we deprive not only individuals in our society of the ability to pursue the best life that they can, but we also deprive ourselves as a society of their talents by boxing them into these really rigid gender roles just because like 85 or 90% of people happen to fit. Well, because of that, that's why we have the WNBA that nobody watches in the destiny. So thanks a lot. Wait, didn't you say that you watched the WNBA in the debate with me? Yeah, I watched it because I crank it to it. I have a sexual fetish for a female basketball player, but that's just me. Oh my God. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. It's just a sexual, you know, fetish. You are one weird dude in us. I didn't need to know that about you. Well, I just like to let that be known that I'm in a WNBA checks, but everybody else is and I wish more people would be. Women want to play in the WNBA. What's, wait, what's wrong with that? What like, if you could have a world where there is a WNBA with someone really to play basketball, why not have that world? The problem isn't that there's a women's league. I think the problem that right wingers have is that the government subsidizes these things. So like the government has rules about funding for like men and women's sports. And it's to the point where like these teams in college end up like recruiting women without their even knowledge just putting them on the raster because they want to like get this funding. And like, women are like the number one recipients of affirmative action. So I think what right wingers are saying is that like women should compete with men and to have the freedom. This is what I'm saying. Should have the freedom to participate in the economy and sports and et cetera, but they should do it on like an even playing field. And they should. So like, I think, yeah, I think it's, I don't know, by the way, you're wrong. I agree with what you're saying, but that's not what conservatives feel. That's going to be the Mont and Bailey bullshit argument that they wheel out to try to pretend that's what they feel. But what they're really saying is, I think what they're saying is women are fundamentally equipped to do different things and they shouldn't even try to compete in the traditional domain of man. Now, if there was a conservative that said, listen, if women want to do these things, that's fine, but we should like trim back some of the affirmative action. Sure, that's fine. I think that in schools, we've seen that it has gone a little bit too far. Graduation rates are like three to two between women and men, it's like 60, 40. That split is unreal. But the only reason we even know that split exists is because we use affirmative action to get there. You could argue that affirmative action has gone too far today for sure, but it sure as fuck wasn't reality that men are 10 times better at school than women. That's not true. And we've seen that, that even absent some affirmative action, women are just as competitive in school, if not more so than some men are, because there are things that men might be wired to do well, like hunt and gather, that makes them more predisposed to things like say ADHD that women don't have. Women make better students, right? You might say that men are these strong hunter-gatherers and they do all these type A things quicker reflexes. That also might come with an increase of like risk-taking behavior. So when you look at a skill-based activity like driving, you might think like, wow, this is something that men are obviously better than women at, but then you look at accident rates and insurance rates and maybe being like really physically capable, it doesn't make you a good driver. Maybe it's being a little bit slower and cautious. Maybe that's what makes you a safer driver. So I'm just saying that like, yeah, if you wanna trim back on some things, that's fine. But one, we can't pretend that affirmative action was a complete mistake because we found out today that women are more capable than anybody thought ever possible. Number one, they've contributed to things like defense, space, engineering, medicine, et cetera, et cetera. And then two, if you do wanna trim back a little bit, that's fine, but we also leave the opportunity for people to compete where they can. So we don't make, deprive all of ourselves of those talents and contributions to society, in my opinion. Here's the problem, hang on. We've heard from the pro-women side in destiny. I'm very disappointed. I thought you hated women like I did, but you're coming in here and telling us they should be rocket ship designers and building missiles and things like that. He's not being menaced by their sexuality. You seem to be. Right, he's not afraid of strong women. I know, cause that's the base. Love strong women. What a great god, so great. Oh my God. I'm not afraid of them, I just simply hate them. And I thought destiny was on the same page, but that's okay. So the thing is, and I said this with Lauren when she was on earlier, I don't think the problem is necessarily that women are working or even maybe the kind of work that women are doing. It really has to do with the segregation and the promotion of women in certain fields. The problem is the co-ed nature of what women are doing right now, that women are intermixed with men throughout the society. The problem is the women are pursuing career and education at the expense of marriage. And if you have a traditional view of sexuality and sexual morality, this is almost necessarily a problem. The more the women are educated, the more the women are in the workplace, the lower the fertility rate, the longer it takes for women to get married. This is a real problem for a society that's trying to retain sexual morality. It's a problem where men are supposed to express their sexuality in a virtuous way. And then also the problem is in some instances, the domains that women are in that I think are a total construct of affirmative action. I think that, if women wanna be researching or whatever, I think you create a women's division of that like you have a women's division of sports and women's division of everything. I think the principle of objection is not that women create value in the society. Women can create value in society a lot of ways. I think that primarily that is through child rearing. In the old days, they would answer the phones and be the secretaries and school teachers. And I think that again, when that's segregated, maybe that's appropriate. The question is maybe not necessarily could that be expanded to other things? I think the question is, is that being pushed to the detriment of motherhood? Is that being pushed to the detriment of regeneration of society? Is that being pushed to forcefully, artificially or forced at all? And then the problem is when it's not segregated, does that create a problem with temptation, sexual assault, all of this ambiguity that you see, me too movement all of that is because of men and women working so closely together in the workforce. That's a source of adultery. That's a source of temptation. I'm hearing a lot of the, I'm hearing a lot of assertion. You're interrupting again. You're interrupting. Yeah, I am interrupting. I'm interrupting for like 10 minutes. And I hate interrupting both of you, but just to hear from anybody that we haven't heard from in a while on the left side. Yeah, so again, we'll say that it is, it's not the case that women were just answering phones or that historically women were just doing easy work. Women were working out on the farms, actually in fact, a large percentage of women still today in the global economy work in farms and they have historically and that's not easy work. These are 10 hour, 12 hour days. So it never was the case that women were not working or women were doing easy jobs. They were just doing different jobs than men. And when it came to things like farming, which is such a huge industry globally, that is just something that men and women both did and children participated too. But the farm is domestic. Well, that's gonna be real good. I have to give a shout out to destiny because he proved his point perfectly. He said that there was a matz and Bailey going on and that's exactly what Nick did. Because he started a conversation saying that we should enslave women. And now he's basically moved over. It's like mine and Lauren's other. Yeah, they should be. I think they should be property essentially, but should they not be able to be. That's fine. That's good, but that's good. I love that. I love that. I like that, right? We can talk, we're gonna tag them on and the Bailey. Okay, that's fine. So moving the conversation one step further, okay? This is something that we have to recognize. We're not having a conversation right now about women's roles in society. We're having a conversation about the structure of society and whether or not we want a more liberal world order where people kind of have a right to choose what they want to do or if we want to have a more Christian nationalist, I don't want to say fascist, but like, cause I'm not trying to be insulting, but if we should have a world order where people are kind of forced to inhabit these gender roles that are building good Christian societies. And the reality is that insofar as we live in a democratic society, people ought to have that ability to choose the path that they think is right for them. If you want to build a Christian community and you want to build a Christian family, you have the right to do that. And this is what makes things like capitalism and liberalism so great. A lot of different structures can exist within that structure. It's very flexible. Whereas in a Christian nationalist structure, the more liberal world order couldn't exist at all because you guys would necessarily crush it through legislation. Yeah, I totally disagree. I think currently the way we live is actually more of this sort of fascist sort of society where women are being told all the time. Like if you aren't working in the HR department, like you will have no value. You're going to be depressed in five years. I think we actually have a more society trying to ingrain women not to want to pursue womanhood and family and doing all of these sort of things. I'm so fascist. I'm saying like more of that worldview he was discussing. I'm not saying personally, I think it's fascism. I'm saying that's kind of the life he put it at. What I'm saying is that in our society, the model society that we're supposed to build, it might be the case today that we push people too far to the left. That might be the case. But the answer to that isn't that we need to shove everybody into families and say, hey, you're going to be an incubator for 15 children because that's your role because you need to breed more for the white race, which is the kind of the point of view that makes it. But the issue is like right now, like everyone's saying like, I talked to so many women and even men, the way in which they view having children is extremely toxic. They say your life is over. You have no freedom now. Because that's what it means because that's what it means. That's a new societal thing. No, that's what it means to have children. That is education. That is, yeah. So again, it doesn't have to mean your life is over and your freedom is over. Wait, who has kids on this panel? Just because it was Steven. I have kids. Okay, yeah. So trust me, as an absentee file, I'm an expert on this. I treat my men like children. Yeah, okay, hold on. So especially as a woman, but in most families, having children sets you on a different path in life. You do lose a lot of freedom and you do lose the ability to do a lot of things you would have otherwise. Ask any man ever. Yeah, but it's the framing of it is that. Let me finish my statement. If you ask any man ever, okay, hey, do you want to give up the most important career years of your life to stay at home for seven or eight years to take care of a child? No man would ever accept that. Fuck no. I'm not like from 20 to 28, you want me to sacrifice my whole life, but that's the decision that we've kind of forced upon or it's biologically forced upon women. You can't be surprised that given the opportunity to live another life, given the opportunity to pursue a life of your own and identity independent of your family, that a lot of women would choose to do that. I don't think that's surprising as a man. I totally understand that. And I think there are a lot of women that are coming to understand that as well. Women have made huge sacrifices because of the biological reality thrust upon them where they have to sacrifice their life for men to be able to work and have a family. Women don't have the option to work and have a family. So given the ability to choose, I don't think it's that crazy that they would choose to do otherwise. Yeah, I just think that. Yes, that's not my point. My point. I want to start us just because she's been so patient. Go ahead, start us. Yeah, I think also just the very fact, Marie, that you're kind of you're kind of reinforcing something that's pretty toxic that actually leads to a lot of women feeling like they don't fit in with motherhood because they feel like they should be loving every part of motherhood. They should be loving their children when really woman gets sick of their children. They, you know, they want to get out of the fucking house of being around children like, you know, 24 seven is driving them nuts. And that's totally normal as a parent. Like at a certain point, it's going to drive you up the wall. Yeah. I don't remember arguing that, like, you have to love every part of anything because life is hard in general. Like no one's going to be like, oh, yeah, I love every part of my life, like cleaning the toilets. Oh, great. I love that so much. No, I'm saying right now in society, the idea thrust upon couples, not even just women, not just men, couples, people who are choosing to be together. I will talk to couples about, hey, are you guys going to have kids? They're in their late 20s and they're like, no, I don't want my life to be over. Why does your life have to be over? Why can't you look at this as a new journey? My mom traveled the world with two kids and a dog. Let's hear from Brett. It is abstinence only education that is literally propaganda that they have been fed by the school system growing up. That's why they're saying it like that. It's not true. You know it's not true. I know it's not true, but that's why. No, I know, but it is being thrust upon a lot of people and it is like the societal model that we are being presented, you know, as a young, old, everyone. Hold on. Are you are you a Christian person? Me? No, I'm like nothing. I'm like, I don't know. OK, OK, I'm sorry. So I'm just trying to understand this. OK, so when when you have children, the life that you lived before is over. You have a new set of responsibilities. You have a new set of risks that you can and cannot take. And you have a new direction that you have to go down in your life. It's a new journey that you take. This if you believe in a structure of a family, you necessarily believe that this is the case when you have children. If you're a couple, you make a lot of money is a dink. They call it dual income, no kids. You're traveling like once every three months to go out of the country and everything. If you have children, that life ends. Now, some people make that choice and it doesn't have to. I don't. I don't agree with that. I know you're just wrong. You can disagree if you want, but you're just wrong. It is not irresponsible. It's travel with the kids. I know I'm right on this. It's obvious. Obviously, you need to make sacrifices. You don't. Yeah, you know, of course, you're not going to not make sacrifices. But when you get into a couple, of course, that single life you live is gone. That's just part of life is having new chapters of life. I think what you're saying is that it's a good sacrifice. So yeah, some people can make that choice. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, I think that we are propagandized to a certain extent to believe in this kind of like consumerist way of living that is very like consumptive and just like we make as much money as possible to like spend it on expensive travel and whatnot. I think a lot of people do like miss out on that family building. So I think you can make the argument that it's a good sacrifice because what you're sacrificing is this very like temporary sort of pleasure of consuming things for building something greater. But like it is ultimately a big change and it must be if you want to provide. And currently a lot of people think we're like living in downtown Chicago is a lot more fulfilling than say getting like a little house that has like a nice yard and having a garden and having a family. A lot of people look at that because of the way in which society we live in. So like let them be, yeah, of course. It depends on the life stage. And we live in a democratic society. You have to make that argument. You have, it's the onus is on you. If you believe that's a lifestyle that other people ought to live then the onus is on you to prove it. Like show like, hey, this is a lifestyle that's more fulfilling. You either preach this through your communities. You preach it through your churches. You do it through the media that you have people engage in whatever you want. Make the argument for that lifestyle. And there will be people that are like, you know what? I want to make the sacrifice. I want to have a kid. I want to get rid of like what I'm doing, you know in the past, but you can't just expect everybody to automatically throw away what is otherwise. It could be like really fabulous, really fun, really carefree lifestyles. And say like, because we need to keep breeding like forward our race or because there's some like weird imperative like religiously or biologically or whatever. Otherwise you can't just say that people have to do that. If you can't make the argument for it. Well, I can make the argument. And I would say, before you do that, before you do that, I'd like to just verify something. Hang on, can I just have been here? We've heard from the opposition for a while. He hasn't spoken for a while. Thank you. Yeah, fuck you. I love you. I'm sorry. So Marie, Marie. So let's say we were to grant you everything you said, right? Hey, and I think we did kind of earlier, right? We said, hey, maybe there's some overcorrection happening in some parts of society. We pointed to like academia. And so maybe people are being encouraged not to settle down until they're like too far in their adulthood or whatever the fuck. Maybe you're correct about this, right? But how does that amount to there being a war on woman? So people being encouraged to take, to pursue lifestyles that you think are detrimental. How does that amount to there being a war on woman in this country? Well, I wasn't really making that argument, but that argument can be made that if we are putting women down this path of being an HR and thinking that's going to create happiness and then they just get so far along. We're having children. But we're not really putting them down. Does it become more unsafe? Oh, yeah. But how does it, like, I really do think we are because when there's all these influencers. Which is basically what's happening. Just to be sure we hear both of you. Just to make sure you're separate. Well, I'm just saying, how does selling a lifestyle which is basically what's happening? It's just like, hey, don't settle down and have kids when you're 18 years old. Maybe explore your options. Maybe pursue a career, whatever the fuck. They're basically just selling a lifestyle and some people agree. They like the product that's been sold to them so they pursue it. So how does that, them choosing their own free will to go down this lifestyle path that you think is gonna lead to them having like a long-term negative outcomes or whatever? How is this us forcing anything onto them? They can choose, like Destiny said, to do the tradwife thing. They can choose to have 10 kids start helping out kids the moment they hit 18 years old. And we're not saying that, hey, you can't do the tradwife thing or you should be ashamed for doing the tradwife thing. We're just saying, hey, you shouldn't try to force people into boxes and we should provide the options and let people go where they wanna go. No, I'm not arguing that you shouldn't, like this is something like you should force upon people. I'm actually arguing that the opposite is actually in a way being societally forced onto people. That was my argument. I'm not saying we should force anything. I'm arguing that that sort of lifestyle of living in a city, these are the things that actually being forced upon people because they are made to believe this is the only way to live, this is the only way to get a job, this is the only way. If you're going to make the argument that this type of lifestyle is being forced onto women because it's kind of glorified or whatever, we can make the same argument before women were entering the workforce in the same way. We can make the same argument that like, oh, well, we glorified a homemaking and women are kind of being indoctrinated and now. Does that make it so that their biological clock is going out if they're going into homemaking or is there actually like an adverse effect actually being happening? Well, yeah, there are studies that show that women who are stay at home are actually like more likely to suffer from depression, things like that, right? This whole idea that women are happy or at home is completely in. Women who have like a stable home are more depressed than women who live in the same. Well, they don't have a stable home. You know, a lot of the time they have like and more economic stability because they don't have their own source of income. Yeah. People who are married and poor are religious and it's counterintuitive. But like, I think the problem here is that like, we're using this language called like forest and like we have to move away from that because it's not true that women are being forced, but it is true that women are encouraged to go into certain fields. And the reason why we know this is because we're having this panel right now. And one of the topics is the wage gap and the reason a large reason for that wage gap is the choice of fields that men and women get into. And so we look at these gaps, right? The gap in income or gap in STEM. And we say that this is necessarily bad that women are not reaching the same standards as men. And it's not necessarily bad because it's fine if women are choosing to do other things with their life. So like, I think that that's what we should focus on is that like it's not forced per se, but it is obviously encouraged. And we've got to get in mind that what happened on the other side historically, if we want to talk about history, is that a hundred years ago, women didn't have the right to work in the same way that men did, right? Or did, right? They didn't have the right to vote in the same way that men did, right? So that was something actually being enforced upon women through government policy to keep them in a certain box, right? And now the box is gone. And I think all that society is doing right now is encouraging women to pursue these other options that they now have access to, right? So I don't think anybody's being forced to do anything. And if you're saying, hey, these women are being sold like a bill of goods or whatever and it's actually bad for them. Sure, that's great, make the argument and maybe people will listen to you. I don't think there's anything being forced upon anybody. And Nick, I think you're gonna have to demonstrate for your side of the argument so I think you do wanna put women back into that box. You're gonna have to demonstrate why that box is beneficial to us today, right? And I don't think you- Yeah, I tried to do that earlier and then I got cut off by that girl and I was gonna answer Stephen, my best friend who posed the question and said, why should they not be allowed to do something that's fulfilling or something like that? Here's the thing, it's not about women's fulfillment and the other thing is it's also not an individual society. I'll just say it very plainly. It's not a question of are women happy, not happy, are they fulfilled, not fulfilled? The feminist society isn't working and we know that it's not working because of one reason alone. Family formation is not happening. The fertility rate is below the replacement level. Society is not regenerating itself. You could say that maybe the best metric, the surest metric, maybe the most relevant or one of the only relevant metrics is are men and women getting together and forming families successfully, staying together and having kids because that is what you need to perpetuate the society. That is what you need to imbue culture from one generation to the next. That's what you need to have a next generation as for men and women to get together. And ever since, and you could see this across the developed world and some people say this is because of the economy. Some people say this is because of technology but certainly those things correlate. The fact is that all of these societies where women have this role in the workplace where women are being educated, where there's co-ed workplaces and education, families are not being formed and the next generation is not proceeding. Now the same cannot be said in the Middle East. The same cannot be said in Africa. Same cannot be said, well, increasingly it is but historically in Latin America. The feminist idea is failing basically on that metric alone. And so if you have a society that's blowing up and exploding because it's shrinking every year because men and women are not getting together because women are going out and exploring work and men are not interested in that. And then they're not forming families and not having kids. You don't have a society. That is the quintessential problem. And why are you having that problem? You're having that problem because men and women need to be getting together when they're fertile. And the thing is- Do you wanna live in the Middle East? Wait, no, no, stop. Why do you think that's probably just- Honestly, yeah, I said that on my show last week. They're building the line in Saudi Arabia. It sounds awesome. There's no alcohol. Women can't drive, they're forced to wear burqas. So you aren't moving there. It's a super city. Yeah, I would be fine with that. I'll see you in a while. I'm with Nick on that actually. Yeah, okay. But Nick, wait, one second. So Nick, so Japan has a lower birth rate than the United States does, right? They also have a very patriarchal society, right? That does push women into, I think, traditional Japanese roles, right? That are pretty similar to traditional Western roles. So why do you think their birth rate, given that they have a much more patriarchal society that is being enforced, why do you think their birth rate is so much lower than ours? I don't think that's entirely true. I think that women are working in Japan and I don't really know that much about it. It's just the fact that they're working, but that's it. Well, isn't that kind of the question of this debate? It's not the question. It's not though. But yes, it absolutely is. And women are, you just talked about women being given the option to be educated and work. And you say it's not relevant if women are, to a large extent, being educated and working in Japan. That's the principle. That is one of the things that defines modernity along with technology, along with education. It is the expansion of the role of women. That's how you classify it. That's why we say Africa's Britain. I think when we talk about this, I think there's- A bigger predictor is the welfare state. So I think one of the big philosophical question here, and people from the love of run for men, I don't think we should. I think it's a thing to talk about, right? Is there is this unspoken assumption that we ought to be slaves to the continuing of society. And I think that assumption can be challenged. I don't think that you have the right to tell 50% of the population that we are necessarily going to force you to live a certain type of lifestyle. Because if you don't, then within 1,000, 5,000, 10,000 years, it might be the case that humanity goes extinct. I don't think that that's acceptable, that you're forced to carry the burden of the existence of the future of the human race through the way that you live individually in your life. It might be the case that at some point, far off into the future, that like having a smaller population becomes some sort of negative, but I don't think we're at that point right now. It would probably reduce energy expenditure around the world and make it easier for people to live in different areas. Maybe our cities wouldn't be as crowded, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think that you need a stronger argument than the birth rates are negative. I don't think that in and of itself is an argument that's strong enough to force people to commit to a certain type of lifestyle. Well, it's not about forcing them. It's just about recognizing objectively the success of the feminist project. And if you could say that a society is succeeding, and if you could say that a society is thriving and vital, you would say that all of those things are bound up in whether or not families are being formed and kids are being made. So it's not to say that we're slaves to continuing the generations, it's to say that's the metric of a successful society. But also societies that are doing that would be a reality. But that is what you were saying though, right? Because you're saying that, I'm not saying we have to be slaves to like having families. I'm just saying that we need to have like successful societies. But what you said, your words verbatim, your idea of a successful society is one that's growing in population. Your measure of that was the record. Wait, hold on, hold on. But you don't strengthen a society just by having more people. There are tons of different ways to strengthen societies. We can talk about it sociologically, we can talk about it culturally. Yeah, but that's a baseline. That's baseline. You need it if it doesn't exist. And society only exists if people have children. So that you can't have a strong society in the first place. So if you want open Wolfram Alpha or get a fucking math friend and you could plug in the functions of the math, we're not gonna lose everybody in two years or in two generations or in 200. Okay, so the idea that in 10,000 years, humanity might go extinct. Therefore, half the population right now needs to be forced to live a certain lifestyle. Otherwise we're gonna run the risk of not being able to repopulate the planet. But we're doing that with the climate, it just does. No, we're not doing that with the climate. That's exactly what your side is trying to change just the way in which people live because of something very far off. Changing how people live is not the same as telling people they can't have children. I don't know how you're even making that connection. You're telling people they can't have certain cars anymore. You're telling people that every year they have to go to the DMV and get their emissions checked. For God knows why. One of these is your body. One of these are your body and one is the consumption of goods. Speaking at the same time. Things like getting your emissions checked are fine. If you were in LA like 30 or 40 years ago, you couldn't even fucking see outside. It looked like Beijing, the smog was so bad. So some of these like climate policies- I'm here with my two-year-old car. I need to get my emissions checked. Stephen, why did we make that change? If you have a two-year-old car that passes your emissions, if you have a two-year-old car that passes your emissions, check, they're fine. You're going to get it checked and you're good, right? Oh, I was almost really sexist. I'm sorry. People can neglect their cars. Oh, they're exploring that. No, I won't. People can neglect their cars for a long time just because your car is two-years-old doesn't necessarily mean it would pass the emissions check. You might not maintain your car. You might drive around all day with a check engine light. You might have a catalytic converter or an O2 sensor that doesn't fucking work. Having your car emissions checked is not the end of the world. It's not a bad thing. And there's nothing that ends with saying we ought to have a cleaner, healthier society, atmosphere, air, oceans. That doesn't not work. And then you also say we don't have to force women to breathe to maintain society. I agree with you so much. You're so right about society and about the environment. But why are you right? Because we care about future generations. We care about the environment being good. And societies are great when people are willing to care about generations ahead of them and not have this time orientation of four to eight years. You're playing a word game. Hold on. We care about the future generations that will exist. We don't care about making a certain number of people in the future generation. Those are two incredibly different things. Hold on. We care about the people that are going to come after us on this planet. That's what we mean when we say future generations. We don't care that we're committed to create a baseline number of people to go forward in the next generation. That's not what that means. It's not about creating a specific number. It's about having people at all, right? And so like... Wait, how many people do you think we're losing? It's not like we're going to disappear. The only thing that's upsetting is that China's population is going to have over the next few decades. Let me give you a chance to finish April. Wait, you said the world population will have in the next few decades? China's. You think China's population will have in the next few decades? Yeah, because their demographics are insane. Hold on. Do you think... Are there... They're not allowed to have a lot of children. Wait, I don't know if China's in it. Is their population going to have or is their birth rate going to have? No, population. China is the most populous country on earth. Hold on. I think we need to justify using birth rates as an indicator of a thriving society in the first place. Because it seems like you listed off like countries in the Middle East and Africa, but the countries that you're lifting off tend to be countries with a very poor quality of life and low life expectancy. I can read the statistic if you want to. You said earlier that some people type or blame it on the economy or blame it on the GDP, but the reason they do that is because you can track this with all these first-world nations as a quality of life increases, as a GDP goes up, as these countries modernize, the birth rate declines across the board. If we can see that the countries where people are reporting happier lives, better quality of lives, where they have more modernized societies, are the ones with the lower birth rates. Yeah, you're restating what I said. Why are we pointing to the ones that have worse quality of lives with their higher birth rates as an indicator of success? Because the fertility rate is a direct consequence of the relationship and the relative roles between men and women. That's why. And so you're just restating what I said. Yes, it tracks with technological progress. Yes, it tracks with economic development, but the fertility rate is principally concerned with family formation of men and women getting together. And you're right. Africa is a primitive civilization. Middle East is more primitive than the West. That's absolutely true. And the thing is, they're going to be here in 1,000 years on this trajectory because they're growing, they're increasing, and we're decreasing. She's suggesting we should. Destiny, I think you severely underestimate the extent to which the population is shrinking. In the United States, the only reason that our demographic collapse is not moving very quickly is because it's being offset by a massive amount of immigration every year. And that's a separate thing about population refreshment or replacement. But if we didn't have that, if you look at the white birth rate, it's far lower than the combined birth rate of the minority non-white population being offset by immigration. Japan is in a demographic crisis. James, this is verging on hate speech. You know, I don't know how many years... I don't know how many years in the... It's just math. I don't know how many years in the future it will take for Canada and Japan and China to have no children, but the population reduction is significant. And the point is not to say, well, we need to do this so society is a certain kind of size. In terms of rate, this is a good metric of whether a society is succeeding. If you could say that men and male and female relationships are good and optimal, you'll say that families are being formed because that means that they're attracting each other and having children. If they're not doing that, then the relationships are poor. And so... And the point is simply to say, there are consequences for saying, we'll just give women these menu options and women can pick what they like. You know, that's fine and well, but we tried that and now it's having society-wide consequences. I don't think... I don't think... I don't think I'm a straight. I disagree. Okay, so if anything, if anything, we used to... Sorry. So if anything, again, people used to work much longer hours and it actually was worse for the family. There are higher children dying. You know, children used to die much more. Women and men used to work like, you know, ridiculous amounts of hours and they would still reproduce more. I believe the decreasing birth rates is more of a sign of increased wealth rather than work, right? Because we actually work eight hour days now or a lot of... Most people do. But maternal mortality also used to be super high. And so if anything, I would say that this idea, Nick, that you're saying that feminism has created this decline in birth rates, I don't think it's necessarily true. Feminism actually pushed for maternity leave. So women, when they were in the workplace, could take off time for their pregnancies and to attend to their families. So I just... I disagree with this entire sentiment that you have. It's... I think it's a much better prediction. Can I make one more point? Of the welfare state. Like the thing is that people used to have children because they wanted to have people in their life that were connected to them, that would help them as they aged. That was like a very common reason to have children and people have lots of children for this reason. But now we have the government that's able to implement pension programs and all of these systems that make us so people aren't so concerned about having children because they know that they can save. They know that they can put money away and they know they have these organizations that are going to back them up. So like I think that the data shows that a much better predictor is like the role of the government as in welfare to birth rates. I don't think people make this... No, go, Destiny. I don't think people make decisions on having children based on them, taking care of them like in future timelines, except for maybe like... Yes, they do. Don't interrupt him. That is a very common thing. Stephen is talking. That is very common. Seriously, warm explaining. He's done it too. Yeah, straight up. Let Stephen... Sorry, yeah. Okay, I'm sorry. Let me make a stronger statement. Nobody is deciding. In Western countries... Yeah, in Western countries, people aren't having kids to take care of them as they get home. Yeah, why? Because they don't need to. Yeah, because we live in civilized societies where you're not going to die on the fucking street if you don't have a kid. Right? No, not because of the welfare state, right? Infectively. Well, it's okay. That's... You can't have... Hold on. You can't have the... The U.S. has some of the worst... You can't have the conservative... You can't have the conservative argument on both sides, okay? You can't say that on one end. The welfare state is disincentivizing the birth of children, and that's why our replacement rate's so low. And then on the other hand, it's also mysteriously incentivizing the birth of like black children out of wedlock. You can't... I'm not making that argument. You might not be making that argument, but the type of argument that you're making, that argument is made on every... That argument is made on every single side, okay? We can't say that like... We can't say that we're simultaneously like pumping out children or not pumping out children because of what we're not because of what we're at the same time. So I think that when people are making the choice to have children, and I'm pretty sure that when the research shows this, or we can start digging these things we need to, but I'm pretty sure that it's when people feel like they're in a comfortable spot in their life that they're ready to have kids. I think that's like the like... Whether or not you can afford a home, I think is one of them, and whether or not you have good financial stability, I think is another big one. It's not like I need to have kids or else when I'm old, nobody's going to take care of me. Unless you're literally in a society that has like... It's so bare bones, and I don't mean the difference between like Canada and the United States and Sweden. I mean like the difference between like fucking Sweden and some country that has like six ongoing genocides, okay? That's the difference. So we're... This is exactly what I'm saying. Like... Okay, hold on. But then the prescription they're giving me is we need to go back to some fucking prehistoric fucking bullshit where we're running around in tribes trying to shit out 20 kids because 10 of them are going to die in childbirth and the other 10 are going to take care of us when we're old and the fucking voodoo witch ladies trying to remove our kidney to sacrifice for some fucking rain. Okay, I don't know. We want to go back to that society. As the only other parent on here... Let Alex go. Let Alex go. Hold on, Alex hasn't gone for a while. Go ahead, Alex. Well, yeah, I mean, I haven't been able to talk but one thing that nobody's refuted and I think we should talk about this on the conservative side too when we talk about the war on women. What about trans athletes that are biological males? Like Lee Thomas. Jesus, that's another debate. He's competing against them. No, but I mean, isn't that a war on women? Why can guys or the penis that still is into, you know, women? Oh my God. Just go watch our debate. You already... Well, I'm just saying, isn't that a... So you don't think that's a war on women, Brenton? No, I think you're wasting your time. We've got other shit to talk about here. You're letting guys compete against women in sports, taking away scholarships. You think that's okay? Oh my God. You don't think that's a war on women? Brenton? So no one's taking your stuff? So I do think... This is a totally different debate. Just go watch that other debate. It's about a war on women, Brenton. So if you're letting guys say, take a pill that says that they're having a hormone therapy and then they get to compete against women. Look at Lee Thomas. Ranked 457. Then became the number one NCAA ranked swimmer in... How are you still stuck on this? But hold on. Because that is a war on women, Brenton. All we're talking about is birth rate. When I'm trying to bring up concrete examples of how there is a war on women. And I'm conservative. And normally I probably wouldn't agree with that, but I think it's very obvious when you're letting trans people compete against biological females. Men, we already talked about the strength. Men have much more strength than women. So it's unfair. That is a disadvantage for women in sports that they're probably going to lose their scholarship. And then if they speak out against it, they can lose their scholarship. So not only is there a war physically in the sport, they're muted. They're Orwellian society. They can't even speak about it. So yeah, I think there's a war on women from competing and speaking out against the trans movement. Yeah, and Brenton... I would say... I'll go ahead and start. That's my try. Well, I was just going to say that, do you be said earlier that I think do you be put it really well that there is some level of an attack on the identity of a woman from both sides of the political sphere. And I think it's wise for us to at least acknowledge that there's at least a little bit of that. I don't think we can get anything by shutting it down. Though I win the debate. I win the debate. It is holding within the scope of the war on women, quote, unquote, right? Like the attack, if there is an attack on the concept of womanhood that comes from some people on the left. I think we need to acknowledge that. And I think dismissing it or trying to shut it down is really unproductive. No one is attacking a concept of womanhood. What's happening is that womanhood is... What are you talking about? Yes, they are. Yes, they are. They're saying biological men with a penis can be a woman. You're saying gender. You think... Yeah, because you don't believe in biology. Yes, I believe in science. I believe because you're not based in reality. That's not science. Science is a testicle in dick. It literally is. A testicle is a dick. That's science. This is such a weirdo. But I got it. The same way I give you a chance, Alex, I got to give Brenton a chance to quick respond. Yeah. Okay. So we are not destroying... In just the same way that gay marriage does not threaten straight marriage, trans women do not threaten regular women. We are expanding a concept to fit with a changing world. Now, this has affected ways that we run sports in a number of ways. It's also affected ideas like, you know, how do you handle bathrooms? These are questions that we need to answer coming forward, but it is not going to do any good to anyone for us to simply act like this is a zero-sum gain between womanhood. Just because a woman can become a man after HRT and is treated like one, that doesn't hurt me as a man. It doesn't hurt anybody here. It hurts. If you let a lesbian with a penis go into the women's locker room, that hurts him because they can sexually ogle women. And that is a real thing. Trans women that still have a dick, just like Leah Thomas, going in the women's locker room and changing, that is a war on women. That's disgusting. Dude, this is just you. You may not be allowed to go in there. This is just you, Alex. No, this is just you, Alex. This is a huge question. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I think we can say... I think we can say... I think we can say that... So I would make the statement. Like, I personally believe that trans women, yes, are women. But there are still issues that affect biological women in a unique way. Can a trans woman have a period? Can a trans woman get pregnant? Wait a minute. Can a trans woman have a period to get pregnant? Alex, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not disagreeing with you. Okay. So there are ways in which biological women still have unique issues that they face that trans women don't. And yes, there's like a biological advantage that some trans women have over a biological woman, right? So I think it's important for us to acknowledge that. I don't understand the whole discourse about trying to say it's exactly the same. We know it's not the exact same experience, right? No one's saying it's exactly the same. When people say trans women are women, what they're saying is, is that trans women should be considered women within our society. Yes, and they are. And I agree with that. I agree with that. So I think trans women should be considered women. But I think just like we do with any other group of women, we also can acknowledge that there are different realities based on your biological makeup, based on the life that you lived. And so there are different categories within women that are going to affect certain women differently. And there are ways that biological women are going to be affected by certain things. Start us. He just said there's multiple realities. That's not real. There's not multiple realities. Okay. Maybe I phrase it wrong. I could have phrased it wrong. I'm so sorry. And Iron Man and all that. It's one reality. Okay. As a man. As a professional. Is that okay? Because Brinton, I think- Start us. Brinton, I think- Everybody's saying about the way I'm saying women. I'm saying it the right way. You're saying women to women. You're saying women, but like it's plural. You want me to say women. Women. I can say women, but- Yeah, it's women. Women is the pluralist. Who gives a shit? Hold on, but Brinton, I think this mission is like Alex's obsession or something is I think like not real. So what do you say to like a leftist, for example, who comes to you and says, hey, I think that trans women in transitioning to their new gender are actually reinforcing a ton of patriarchal stereotypes about what it means to be a woman, what it means to look like a woman, what it means to speak like a woman, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But they're actually reinforcing the patriarchal social roles just through their existence. And your embrace of them is actually helping that patriarchy along the scene that they've been trying to dismantle for decades. So what do you say to a leftist I would say that to you? Because that is a very common position among feminists. Among TERFs, but yeah. Okay, so what I would say to that. TERFs are not feminists. Yes, they are. All right. So anyway, what I would say to that specifically is, first of all, patriarchy is not the only thing that is holding you down. And you should know this if you're a feminist because Kyriarchy overrules patriarchy. Kyriarchy is a more, I guess- Are you mansplaining feminism to me right now? No, I'm just- No, I'm mansplaining it to the TERF. So like what's happening there is that you have to look and keep your head in the game like and see what is going to benefit women and the rest of society more. Is it going to benefit women and the rest of society more to attack and abuse a minority within that society? Or is it going to benefit us more to, I guess, broaden our idea of gender? To broaden our idea of what a woman's role is and what a woman is. The more options you have, the better it's going to be. And people will then be able to work with others to bring out the best in themselves and others. So the idea- I can understand why someone might feel attacked by the idea of women changing just like I can see someone who might feel attacked by the idea of men changing and taking on different roles. But the fact is this is society. This is life. This is humanity. Change is the only universal constant and you can never get away from that. Okay, but that doesn't mean we need to change all the time. Anytime a proposal changes up. Certainly not. Yeah, no, I see this. So this woman who is- Oh, God, please. Yeah, go ahead. I love you, Catfish. But I think you just demonstrated how you kind of dismissed the fact that I think that a lot of trans women, when they attempt to pass as a woman, are actually reinforcing the stereotypes. That seems to be the case. And you said, hey, well, they need to realize that it's not just- What do you think they need to pass? Even though trans women are reinforcing patriarchal stereotypes, what you should actually be focused on is the Kyriarchy, and how that's also oppressing you. Right, but this is still reinforcing patriarchal stereotypes. If you're attacking Kyriarchy, we're not patriarchy. And then further, and then further, and then further, if you are saying that, hey, also, you need to be okay with what they consider to be males, men. Being in your space is being in your sports, being in women's abuse shelters, being in women's prisons. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But maybe having access to grants in education that are formed and put in place for women to try to knock through the glass ceiling, whatever the fuck, that the patriarch has put in place in the past, if you're giving these men access to all these things that were meant for women, you are actually damaging women in some way. So you need to deal with that argument. It doesn't make sense to just dismiss it as like Alex's obsession, or to tell them to focus on the Kyriarchy. That that's not, I don't think that's productive. And again, anytime we bring up the, every time we bring up biological women, it's not that somebody is saying that trans women are not women, but anytime you bring up biological women and their unique struggles that they face, people automatically assume that you're excluding trans women from the status of women when you're not. There is just a difference in what biological women have to deal with. There's a biological disadvantage to being a woman. You are, so yeah. That's true. Now that's true. That's the truth. But also, and again, I would say that I just, I don't see why us talking about how biological women have their own unique struggles is somehow excluding trans women from the label of women. We're not doing that. It's not, but the problem is, is that bigots will use the word biological women. So we just stopped talking about actual issues because bigots will take advantage of the language or whatever. No, but you just have to be careful when you're having that conversation because a lot of people just sadly aren't very smart and don't think in this in a very nuanced manner. So yeah, I mean, I was just going to shut it down. I am just sorry for that. So dismiss it and shut it down. All right, so you're dismissing and shutting down the real concerns of women in our society to support, like what? So I am dismissing the concerns of one tiny group of radicals. No, that's not true. That is true. That is not true at all. Like, elections are going to be won or lost on this. If you say so, I absolutely. Yeah, like this is not a small amount of people. You are a man. So you may not actually understand how women feel about this issue because it's not just right wing. Are you kidding? It's a lot of women. It's really frustrating for me. One second. One person at a time. I'm trans, right? And presumably you are like saying these things for my benefit. But like for the benefit of trans people. I speak the truth as I see it. I don't say it for anyone's benefit. Not trying to help trans people. But I'm very frustrated by like the left's decision to try to like weaponize trans identity towards gender abolition. And I said this earlier, but like, if you want to make a distinction between like cis women or trans women or call like trans women like galupa groups or like whatever the word is, whatever the sound orientation coming out of your mouth is, like I don't think it matters. Like what matters to me ultimately is that I can like wear the kind of clothes that I want to wear. Like that's the important thing. And I'm really frustrated by like people trying to make it so much more than it is. It's not that complicated. And like I don't think that trans women need to be like institutionally allowed into every space that cis women have ever been in. That's not the purpose of like my life or my activism or what I'm trying to get by like just transitioning. And so I think that like, it really does people a disservice. When you turn them into political pawns and try to use like a specific person's, you know. And also say that in one type of woman. Do you think trans women should have access to free abortions, Brenton? I think everyone should have access to free abortions. Even trans women. See, that shows you how unbasant reality are if you think of trans women. No, I'm an anarchist idiot. So that just, yeah. But just because you're an anarchist, you're the idiot that thinks trans people can have babies, dude. You're the idiot. You don't even understand. There's a very unique issue to cis women who also, cis women who have a lot of children actually have unique health problems that trans women are not going to have to deal with. Right? You know, cis women are again going to be just biologically a little bit weaker on average than the average, the average man. A lot, a lot. And, okay, a lot, a little, whatever you want to say. Why are there women a little bit differently? Our, our, okay, all right. Okay, little guy, calm down. Yeah, well, you're a man. Yeah, exactly. Look at my muscles. They're, I think we just, we need to acknowledge at a certain point that just like we treat a different population within women, sorry, I've been saying it wrong chat, women, we treat like specific populations within the women category, like people of color or disabled women or all of that. We can do the same with cis women and trans women. Am I saying it right now? Are you guys happy? Yeah, I'm happy. You know, it's weird. Okay, so throughout this whole thing, there's been this point that keeps coming back when people are like men are stronger, men are stronger. And what's the problem here is, I feel like strength, like physical strength, which is, you know, tends to be more a masculine thing, is being confused with power and that men are more powerful because we are stronger. This is not true. And in fact, you know, a good example of this would be the PKK slash YPG. The YPG was an all female fighting force. They are still holding their territory after being betrayed by the US government. They're the single best warriors, local warriors against ISIS. So the idea that women cannot exercise power, they won't exercise power in the same way that a man would, but they will absolutely exercise power. I don't think it's an issue though. Men are actually smarter. I mean, it's the issue. That's why I'm going to instigate. Based. Based, right. I don't know if I buy that. I'm going to disagree with that. I want to jump in here on the question of, here's why that matters is because, you know, if we were all in a room together, I think Alex is the biggest one here. It's like we could elect the leader amongst us or something, but if Alex is the biggest one in the room and the leader or whoever said, well, hey, I think it should be this way. Alex could just like get a big rock and smash it over the other person's head. And that's a definition of power. And the thing is most interactions in society are it's not a warfare scenario where there's arms. You know, most domestic scenes and most workplace scenes and physical intimidation, it works with strength and size. And yeah. And the other thing too is that men are smarter. So and from that proceeds, by the way, from that, you're just flattering yourself, relative roles, not necessarily from that proceeds the roles of men and women, but it also indicates something about men and women, which is that men and women are fundamentally different. And I think that maybe one of the big differences in our worldview is that I am not an individualist. I don't believe in this abstraction of the individual, which is sort of sexless, raceless, who should have rights and get to say what they want to do in society. Because it's really not an individual. I'm literally an anarcho-communist. I am not an individualist. Okay. Well, destiny is. And I think the trans person is an individualist as well. And this presupposes that there's not fundamental differences between men and women. And then as a consequence, they have to be treated differently. Everything about them is different. These are essential differences. And so to say that we're just going to say, oh, men and women are just going to have the same roles and men can become women and women can become men, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of the composition of science. So where are the essential differences? Well, I would just say, I disagree. I think just because men. I'll give you a really quick and pithy one, a stardust, and then just in case anybody hasn't spoken for a while, Marie and April, go ahead. Go ahead, start. All right. So just because men and a woman may have inherent differences in what they do, and what they gravitate to, doesn't mean that we don't create a society where anybody can choose to go outside of that role if they feel the need to, if they feel like their calling is outside of that role. And I also wanted to touch on one subject and do be brought it up very briefly. But the idea of passing, I thought was really interesting because I feel that there are a lot of trans women who pass better than cis women, especially just with the way that norms are and the beauty standards that we have and stuff like that. And so I thought that was an interesting, I thought that was a very interesting point. I know a lot of cis women who feel that they don't pass as well as a lot of trans women. So... Brenton, are you bisexual? Is that true that you're bisexual, Brenton? Why is it not? Why is it relevant to conversation? Which sexes you'd rather have sex with? Why is it relevant to conversation? Well, that's what it is. That's a good question. It's a good question. But who do you prefer to have sex with men or women? Alex, when you drink off... I prefer to have sex with multiple people at once. So, yeah. Ah, gross. So much information. Multiple dudes. I don't know if we're getting... He just said he... He just said he jerks off to the WNBA. Are you worried about multi-box? Alex, last time you drank off, like, which page of the Bible were you looking at? When I cranked it, I was watching the WNBA. I was watching the Liberty. Okay, that's actually the base. Yeah, I was looking at AOC, my favorite big booty Latina. All right, next topic. Before we go into the Q&A, I actually want to remind you folks, our guests are linked in the description. We're going to go into the Q&A shortly, but I do want to remind you, that includes if you're listening at the podcast, we put our guest links in there. So, check them out if you want to hear more about their views. Any last closing thoughts, any final thoughts before we go into the Q&A? Yeah, I had one really quickly. And so, people were talking about passing and trans women passing and then, you know, being overly feminine when they do this. Can you think of a reason why trans women might want to pass beyond simply like pretending to be a woman or whatever or reinforcing patriarchy? It's so they can get jobs. It's so they can get housing. It's so that they will not be harassed on the street by people like Nick. Like there is a practical reason why they would need to pass and why they would need to and sometimes probably overdo it with some kind of hyper femininity. Well, like if you want to be a woman, like I don't understand that because like if you want to be, if you want to be a trans woman, you're saying you want to be a woman. So wouldn't you therefore logically want to pass? Yeah, typically you would want to pass, but it doesn't really make sense. Typically passing is like helps like gender dysphoria, whatever, right? So like when they're when they're passing, they feel like the passing, they don't have fill is dysphoric and this is helpful to them. Like I don't know. And they also are in a far and less danger from the rest of society. You're wrong. It's purely out of anaphilia. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, so I don't think anybody's denying that there are reasons for why people want to pass. You know, it's just the best. Listen, when a pizza hut closed down and they try to put a Chinese restaurant in it, everybody knows it's still a pizza hut. So, you know, some things can only change so much. You're always going to know. God. And then when you show up, are we going to close in statements? At the Wendy's, like you look like fucking idiot, right? Okay, doobie. You're just annoyed. Are you trans or something? Why are you so mad about this? I'm not. I'm not. Why are you constantly attacking people personally? I'm not. I'm just wondering why doobie is so mad at me? I'm talking about the word. Alex is the most emotional person on this panel, okay? I wear my part of my sleeve. I wear my part of my sleeve. I'm gonna wear my part of my sleeve. Don't ever tell me that women are more emotional than men, again, because Alex is here, okay? That's true. I'm so emotional. Oh my God, the war on women. I ain't doing anything. You got a slush. You got a slush. Hey, what do you know? Hey, what do you know? Last thoughts. Can doobie talk? I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. Am I allowed to say this? No, you're a woman. You're not allowed to say shit. I get you permission. Okay, okay. So there's gonna be going around on Twitter that everybody calls me white. So I just want to say I'm the new saver of the white race. So I just want to let you guys know I have taken crown. It's my thing now. So yeah. You got it. Too great, wife. You're brown. No shit, Alex. I am the new saver. No, that was Nick. All my attention is fire to be like me, okay? Too great, wife. I'm just letting you know I have taken it. Nick, you can try and challenge for it, but it's gone. It's not yours anymore. I have the crown. I am the saver. We'll jump over. Are you trans or are you a biological woman? Are you trans? All right. I am a cis woman. I know. I get it. I look very masculine. You know, maybe this is why this topic, you know. April. Anyways, yes, middle guy. What's up? Any last thoughts before we go into Q&A? Yeah, I mean, there's some really interesting studies on like the values of men and women. Fair men et al. Sioux et al. Dyke men et al. And women are more likely to endorse communal, group-serving, people-oriented values. And, you know, I think that's why people like Nick are ultimately endorsing a feminine ideology, one that is not very individualistic or competitive or masculine, but one that just basically like, I don't know, gives handouts to the people who are not succeeding. So I'm not talking about that. That's all I got to say. And it blames the failings of men on women. Women are succeeding. And I didn't blame it on women. I blamed it on other people. I'm not married. I'm not married. I don't have kids and et cetera, et cetera. And it must be because women are pushing me down. The pay trek has been dismantled. Now the May trek is forcing me into my room to yell at the women all day on the internet. Like it seems, I don't know. It does seem pretty feminine. Yeah, except that's not what's happening. Except that's not what's happening. Blaming it on another minority is also feminine. One heck, one heck. Oh, you can say that on Twitch. You can say that on YouTube. That's all. Nick, traditionally, like someone like you would be married at like 18 years old. Like, well, why aren't you married? Yeah, but I'm an asexual incel. So that's where you don't understand my life. Sculptor, not the clay. As we like to say, like Schopenhauer said, I'm the sculptor. Any other life? I don't know. Maybe I'll start us as a new savior of the white race. I don't know. You should make very pretty things. Maybe we can repopulate the earth. Well, look, I'm just saying that all white men aspire to be what I am. So, you know, that's what it is. Now, Pahku, look in your eyes. You know, if more men had that, I think we'd have a different kind of movement. But yeah, my closing thoughts on this whole deal, I mean, look, it's just reality. We're talking about men and women. We all know what men and women are about. If you know, we all have moms. We all know women in a peer relationship, siblings, friends in school. We know men and we know women and we know what they're like and we know where they should be. And women belong as mothers in the home raising their babies. And if they want to take on some little tasks, they want to, you know, help a man with a research paper, you know, their husband or something like that or pick up the phones. I think that's fine. But we need to restore gender roles. We need to have gender segregation. We need to allow men and women to thrive in their separate domains. And we need to cease the elevation of women in these roles where they don't belong at the expense of men. It's killing society. And you could see that in the, I mean, this is just a contributing factor but the decline in the fertility rate as well as a number of problems between men and women within men and women. And on some level, we all understand that feminism is the real enemy. Feminism sort of goes hand in hand with modernity, which is poison. So I would say that with no family, no wife, no kid. That's right. You have no room to talk on any of these issues. Absolutely. I do. I'm a theorist. I'm a social theorist. I would like to disagree with his statement about feminism. You're a fat bisexual in the Ukraine. I think you would start us. And you look homeless. You don't have rights to talk about anything. Brenton, we heard so much from you. All right. Steven, any last words? You didn't know. I'm good. I don't know where we are. What was the topic of this again? Jesus Christ. I disagree with his statement on feminism. You can look at the ways in which feminism, I mean, there are obviously cringe people on Twitter screaming about everything. But feminism has pushed for things for families historically. So feminism was very much like a family-oriented movement in a lot of ways. Anybody else? Last words? None of us would be here without our mother. So we need to lift up moms. Gotcha. And I want to say, folks, our guest are linked in the description. I'm going to jump into the Q&A. If you haven't had a question, you can submit it by adding me, namely at modern day debate, at modern day debate, the YouTube channel. We're live right now. If you have a question, come on over. Freakin' John says, Duby needs to speak up. Let's see. And I don't like looking at Brenton. All right. So folks, I want to remind you, we don't want insults, not even of Brenton. This one coming in from Andrew. Come on, I'm kidding. Andrew Farrell says, from Taft, the economy has changed. Yes, but the production of GDP should not come at the expense of the family. Any thoughts, April? Yeah, no, I agree. I think that you have to strike a balance here. And that balance means making sure they're not depriving women of family and of infant bearing, which I think is important on a civilizational level. And maybe destiny doesn't care about this, but I think it's really important to look way into the future if it means thousands of years into the future and then thousands of years into the future. And so I think that having children is important. And you got to preserve that and you want to allow women to contribute to the economy where they're able. This one from Dave Gar, says, could you please use more inclusive terms such as soy person or soy human or soy entity in your polls? Thank you very much for your question. This one coming in. Bob Savvy says, let's all agree there is a war on humanity. Liberty is mocked on both sides. My liberty, not yours. Where is the state when you need them? All we can hope for is political wins to dominate our political enemies. Simple as that. Thoughts? I mean, I agree with him in that the state is involved essentially in a cold war against everyone on behalf of the elite. Yeah, I mean, he's right. I just think he's getting a little dramatic about it. Anybody else? Yeah, I agree. I agree. The pretense is gone. Now it's a race to the top. Race to use the state to crush our enemies. I think it's totally true and the right needs to drop this liberty business and talk about interest-based politics and power. Yeah, totally agree. Gotcha. And thanks very much for your question. This one coming in from Bifurcation Station says, let Jesse on. Jesse, like Jesse B. Peterson? Amazing. Next one. Freakin' John says, Duby needs to. Look, we got that one. Mr. Meme says, hey, Nick Fuentes, explain the transgender PM or PRN. Oh, yeah, yeah. Never mind that. Alan, great. It says, Alan says, great debate, guys. Nick, what are your thoughts on Lauren and how she lives? Let's see. I don't want to do anything when Lauren's not here to defend herself. Mr. Monster says, do you think women should be told what to do by men or are they more powerful independent of men? I think that one of the things that I don't think we got into enough is the fact that people are kind of socially conditioned by their society. And we talked a lot about women are inherently this way and men are inherently that way. But there are plenty of examples throughout history in our civilization, in other civilizations, where it is just not the case that people are a certain way, inherently. I think you can look to humans all over the planet and find that they do things far differently than we do, and the reason they do that is because they're socially conditioned from birth to behaving in a certain way by their goals. I feel like we need to talk about that a little more because Nick, it sounded like you said that that is just an expression of our understanding of natural tendencies among men and women, or it is just not true that they're socially conditioned, that they're just the way that they are because that's how they are. And I think that's quite clearly not the case. Yeah, I agree that society exerts influence on people, of course. Yeah, so when you were saying that women are inherently this way, or men and women behave this way and that way, how much of that do you think is socially conditioned? I think that the social conditioning derives from their biology. Yeah, so you think it's a second expression? It's derived from fact, and I think that the other social conditioning is derived from ideology. It's derived from ideas and visions. So the question is what kind of social conditioning do we want, and is the social conditioning working against reality or is it working alongside reality? And clearly you can see that in a lot of different projects by mankind and a lot of different ambitious political parties and things like that. Some things work with our nature and some things work against our nature, so I don't think that's in dispute. It's just saying things that are obvious. Yeah, I think that is in dispute. What? And there are plenty of examples where men and women in other civilizations act in ways that are far, far, far outside of the norm of western culture, right, or our culture. So I hear you, Doobie. Oh, I apologize. I think we can, again, we're talking about history, and we can even look to recent history, and this is something I like bringing up a lot because it's really funny, but we can look to even like popping new guinea like six years ago where people were socially conditioned to believe that it was masculine for young boys to give the adults in the tribe blowjobs every day because if they thought the only way that for them to become real men was to ingest steam and daily. Right, so from the age of like seven to like 16 or something, they're giving blowjobs to men in the tribe every day, and this was a masculine thing to do. And if they didn't do it, they wouldn't be real men. They would be feminine because, you know, they needed to suck the dick to get the feminine influence of their mothers out of them. Right, so I think, and that was a totally like a rational, reasonable way for them to behave to them, right. So given that you have like extremes like that out there, or you have cannibalism on the other side, right, I don't think it makes sense to say that, hey, women or men or anybody behaves in a way like inherently you're naturally, I think it's absolutely. That's just a false silage to say. Primarily like something's subjective that everything is subjective. That's just wrong. I didn't say everything. That is such a thing. There are things that are objective and there are things that are subjective. And so, you know, I think you need to like demonstrate that something is subjective if you're making that point. Okay, it's rooted in biology. Men are stronger than women. Women have to bear children. Women are more relational because of that. They think of people and faces and names and are cooperative because they have a biological function to produce offspring. And so, we don't need to get into the science. We're in the Q&A session. But you're saying that, well, they have this subjective tradition. So, you know, just any behavior. But what you just point into is a subjective tradition that's relative to the time and place in which these things are useful, right? I asked you earlier, okay, tell me why we should be appealing to like caveman social roles in the modern day when we're speaking to each other from across the planet on the internet. Like, why is it useful to say, hey, men are stronger, men are physically stronger. So, therefore, you know, they're dominant in our society or they're dominant in this way or that way. And that's so that, hey, women can also interact with our society in plenty of ways. I don't involve their physical strength. Don't involve any of those biological limitations, as you call them. And take on dominant roles or leadership roles in our society. Like, why should we be using yesterday's like social roles when they just don't seem to apply to... Biology hasn't changed. The biology hasn't changed. And I'm not arguing that men should still be hunting mammoths and women should still be, you know, knitting things out of leaves or whatever. The fact that you're arguing should mean... Oh, you're interrupting me. Yeah, because you're saying stupid shit. Yeah, well, that's not how this works. You want to go live in Papua New Guinea where they're eating people and drinking cum? You probably would like that. So, like, what do you look like? You like that and you're fucking... Let's jump into the next... I hate to do that. So many questions. Well, Legendary says the U.S. is a service sector economy. And most of this sector's industry is women run. BLSgov admits this. I think the Bureau of Labor Statistics. There is no war on women. There is an argument that the deficits created here is damaging the economy. Thoughts, please? Any of you? What is the sector in question that they mentioned? Service sector. I'm just going to work on that. Yep, the U.S. is a service sector economy and most of these sectors' industry is run by women. And there is no war on women. There is an argument that the deficits created here is damaging the economy. Thoughts? There is no argument. Some people think that a service economy isn't real and you're not manufacturing fucking bricks or cinder blocks. You're not actually doing real work. Yeah, it's one of those. No, Destiny, come on. I wasn't you were in real. That's true. It's like that fucking stupid meme where it's like fake jobs and it's like computer programmer, nuclear engineer, and then it's like real jobs and it's like carpenter, electrician, guy that fucking shoves his dick in a tree. Is it carpentry a service? Isn't carpentry a service job, though? A service is a job. Yeah, well, no, no, no. He's like, you're doing a service. I'm talking about what you're like, I guess electrician. Yeah, but like when you're like manufacturing, anything related to like manufacturing, whatever people think that's like when you're not like making stuff, like working on stuff, it's not like a real job or whatever. I agree with that. I think that this whole Russia debacle is proving that, you know, because in we're like, we're going to cut you off from international trade. And it's like, okay, well, we have all the oil and gas and food and you don't. That's why the British are paying 5000% premium on gas from Belgium. And I know that was. If you say so, it looked to me like Putin just fell on his face. Like he was supposed to take that country in like a day. I don't think anybody believed that. He destroyed the Ukrainian army. It's going. If he had destroyed the Ukrainian army, he would have won at the moment. You're an anarchist and you're shilling for like NATO. I find that. Justin and Claire, I'll show for Ukraine. Okay. The Russian economy is currently fucked. Yeah. Number one, and number two, Russia massively fucked up the Ukrainian invasion. It is nothing but weapons grade copium. If you think rolling around tanks on the street with no support and not taking Kiev in literally three days is anything but an abject failure of what people thought the Russian military could do, including Russia itself. So of course that was a massive fuck up. You want to make a bet destiny on who's going to win this war? Putin's already lost the war. Like maybe they can stop in the way that his goal was like in three days, he wanted he wanted the city of Kiev. He wanted a new administration. He wanted Donetsk and Luhansk's breakaway states and he wanted Crimea to stay his and he wanted to be over in like two weeks tops. That's what he wanted. Kiev or articulation. This is better than last like decades. This is going to be a decades long war. So, you know. And they like massive, they humiliated Russia. I mean it's already taking a really long time. Let's take a bet then. I mean we could all in destiny in our debate you were talking about Russia hitting nuclear power plants. That was a fake NATO story. First of all. Just like Russian chemical weapons, just like all the other stuff. So I mean we could talk about the current propaganda but let's just make a bet about what's going to be. Sure, what do you want to bet on? What do you want to bet on? Let's say that by the end of the year Luhansk and Donetsk totally liberated and independent states are annexed to Russia. Liberated. Wait, do they count as liberated right now? Well, I think one of them is Luhansk or I think one of them is completely under Russian control. Yeah. This is how I need to read a little but I would almost make this bet with you right now. Maybe I would. Okay, if you're telling me that Ukraine will recognize them as independent states, like they'll be like, okay, we've lost that. Is that like a bet you want to make? Or you just want to... Oh, no, I don't think Kiev will... I mean, they may capitulate later on but they will effectively be under Russian control and that's what matters. I mean the United States can... When you say Russia... Okay, but I'm trying to push you because I don't want you to be like, oh, are you talking like they've brokered a peace deal? That's not how I sound. They've brokered a peace deal. There's a ceasefire and Ukraine is content to say, okay, Luhansk and Donetsk, we're going to leave this alone for a little bit. No, I think the war will probably be on go Okay, so then you're not even making it real bad. Okay, just let the record show that you totally walked back from your shit. No, I did not. I said that Luhansk and Donetsk could be liberated by the end of the year. And I think... People would have said that they were liberated a year ago. Like what do you mean liberated? Like if Ukraine... If they're still fighting along the borders, if they're all fighting in the Donbass and Russia's still pouring in military support, everything, how is that liberated? That's what I'm saying. I'm saying they won't be fighting in the Donbass. I'm saying that Russia will have fully secured Luhansk and Donetsk from the control of Kiev. They'll have military control of those places. A referendum will be held. They'll either be annexed or they'll have independence. Okay, so hold on. I know it happened in the United States, they have military control of Iraq. What? Did the United States have military control of Iraq? Not complete military control. But we're talking about region versus the state. Hold on, wait, the United States... Hold on, the United States literally installed a new government in Iraq. I would say that counts as like complete military control. Yeah, and they installed a new government in Afghanistan and they never controlled the entire country. That's the point. That's what's going to happen. No, wait, hold on. I don't think Russia's going to take all of Ukraine. I don't think that was ever the objective. That was definitely the objective. No, it was not. He articulated on February 24th that he wanted to keep all the tries Ukraine, liberate Luhansk and Donetsk and secure Crimea. I think that's exactly what we're going to do. Regular man who tells the truth all the time. He also said he wasn't going to attack. I don't think he said that. I don't think he said that at all. Yes, he did. He said it was just... Totally up top. Got to jump in the middle of the track. James, how can you say you're a fair moderator when you told Brenton to shut up and have never once told Alex Stein to shut up in a debate? Well, to be fair, Alex wasn't talking about that. He has told me to shut up. Yeah, but you've told me to shut up. That's right. I don't feel like he told me to shut up. Though, I will agree. I think you've been a little loose with Alex. Yeah, because I'm a pimp on a blam, Brenton, and you're a bisexual freak. All right, let's jump in the middle of it. Oh, my God. That's the memes coming with the question for Nick. Says Nick. Let's see. Okay, that's another personal attack. Rumbly depues the state of bringing these brilliant minds together. Brenton is right. There is a war on women. He proved it when he claimed Breonna Taylor was shot while sleeping in her bed. Okay, so on the issue of Breonna Taylor being shot while sleeping in her bed, what happened there was, one, I jumped into that debate on like zero notice. You actually... And I didn't get the chance to do the research that I normally do. But on the other point of it is that the actual statement Breonna Taylor was shot in her bed caught on for two reasons. One, because it echoed the death of Fred Hampton. And two, because it... Even though it was an incorrect statement, it more accurately described the injustice of what happened to her during that raid. So, yeah, she wasn't literally shot in her in her bed, but she still got the cops busted in her door. It was spiritually true. That's really stupid. I'm sorry. I know that's spiritually true. Yeah, that's... The fact is... That's so funny. If you're trying... I'm sorry, dude. I mean, you can feel that way. But the fact is that if you're trying to get something into a single soundbite, you need to craft it in such a way that the actual idea is communicated. Listen, we all say dumb things sometimes. That's like a normal credit. I mean, the cops were doing that, but okay. No, they did not. That's not what happened. The cops have been doing that across the country. I mean, where do cops just murder people while they're asleep? While they're asleep? That's literally how they killed Fred Hampton. That was your claim. Your claim was that across the country, cops are busking into people's homes, going to the neighborhoods, shooting the most... No, that was not my claim. It was your claim. My claim was that the police were completely out of line in what they did, and it was incredibly tragic within Breonna Taylor's situation, as well as hundreds of others. Okay, what was out of line from the police society? Other than the dude that was shooting through the window like a crazy person. I mean, the fact that it was in no nine-rate... The fact that it was in no nine-rate... The fact that it was in no nine-rate... The fact that it was in no nine-rate... The fact that it was in no nine-rate... The fact that it was in no nine-rate... After her boyfriend shot of the police officer. Yeah, of course he shot of the police officer. Okay, I understand the argument about self-defense. I understand. Right? Yeah, that was fine. I'm ready to do this. Oh, we have so many questions. Legend Rives says, let women practice their second amendment rights if there is a war on them. This gets rid of sexual harassment, fear, and toughens up women. Hashtag Uwagawuga. Uwagawuga. True. Next one. Light of the Twin Lambs. This question for Nick. If you support USA becoming a Catholic theocracy, shouldn't you support illegal immigration from Catholic Latin America who are more likely to support your views than secular USA? No, because then it won't be America. If we have to fundamentally transform the identity of America on an ethnic basis, on a genetic and heritage basis, cultural basis, then it's not a Catholic America. I mean, and also these Latin Americans are not... They're not the kind of Catholics that people say they are. I mean, they vote for abortion. They vote for gay marriage and all that. So, you know, it's not like they're voting for the Guadalupe empire, whatever. So no, I think that's a lot of like soft conservative Catholics believe in that nonsense. It's like a different version of natural conservative from Paul Ryan, but it's like a Catholic bent. So no, I don't think that makes any sense. That's up. You got to think very much. This one coming in from Minecraft Player says, How can there be a war against women if women aren't real? I don't think I've seen one ever. Must be Photoshop. Also shout out to Sonic Inflation. Okay, gosh. For the first part, disregarding the... Any thoughts on the first one? This one coming in. I didn't even understand that. The legend RIV strikes again. It's Google Sonic Inflation. Yeah, okay. This is in the U.S. is officially in a recession. Is it like Rule 34 or something? This one coming in. They say the U.S. is officially in a recession with the two quarter negative GDP print. Also savings rates at 5%. Last time that happened was the 08 recession. Male jobs like production aren't around. Help us out women. Any thoughts? Don't Google Sonic Inflation. That's true. I don't think we are technically in a recession. I think the government decides when to announce it. And they've chosen a different path. I think recessions are very economically technical definitions. The numbers are revised up and down depending on... Some people would say it's two quarters, two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. There is no universally accepted definition. Yeah, accepted. What is the definition? Yeah, it's hard because there's disproportionate wage growth. In my economic textbooks, we had definitions of recessions for different countries. So there are definitions. Yeah, it's actually the two quarters of negative... No, because that's used sometimes. It's negative GDP growth. That's the problem. So yeah. No, but that's in an economic textbook. No, I guarantee you. Because I also went to school like I said. It's the business cycle. It's the business cycle as well. April, what's up? Yeah. No, I mean like... The fact is our session is just like a decrease in economic growth, right? Like fundamentally that's what it is. And like where you draw the line as far as saying like this is enough decrease to be like getting a special title is like... Yeah, but in our business cycle it is two quarters. There is a traditional way of defining it. Yes. And that is with the two quarters. So when I say like there's no official thing, like I'm kind of making fun of the fact that we've decided not to use the traditional definition for this current shrinking of the economy. Yeah. In 2020 when there were two consecutive quarters of negative growth under Trump, everybody said, okay, we're officially in a recession. And you know, and that was true. But now that it happened, they said, oh, well in the first quarter, that was because of an increased trade deficit. So it technically doesn't count. Because I think... Because there's a... Because trying to figure out if we're in a recession, it really doesn't matter what you call it. The important thing is what is the policy actually we need to take in response to that. And if we act right now, like the economy is in the shitter and everything is fucked, there might be certain forms of like stimulus that we might be expecting from the Federal Reserve. There might be certain forms of stimulus that we might expect from the Federal Government. There might be other types of actions that we take in order to alleviate the economic problems. But the problem is that whether or not we're having a severe economic problems, really hard to identify. The closure of small businesses is not happening at recession levels. Wages are growing among poor workers at like historic levels. Unemployment is unbelievably fucking low. It's hard to say like, yeah, inflation is growing for sure. But the idea that we're just in a huge shitter economy where there's like a huge recession is like, fuck, that's not true. That's not the lived experience right now of most Americans. Wait, what are you talking about? That is so wrong. All of the polls are showing that people are in really bad economic situations. You have 500,000 subscribers. You have said that you make X amount of money on YouTube. So like it's not maybe your lived experience, but for people who are dealing with this and having their mortgage rates go up. Yes, it is very much their lived experience and all the polls that you backed this up. So polls will ask you if you think you... This is backed up by surveys. So polls, I don't care what an average person surveys for if they think they're doing good or bad. That's not relevant to literally anything, okay? You can poll in America on whether or not, if they like the ACA versus Obamacare and you might get a 50 point difference in the poll. That's not how we're looking at like the economic well-being of people, right? So when you say things like... It looks at how did you feel last year compared to now when the economic situation was different? I don't care how you feel because how you feel literally might just be because the president... Yeah, but then it's also your mortgage payments. We'll tell you how your mortgage payment should... How much money you have in the mortgage... Yes, they will go. They will change. Why? Most people, a lot of people are on variable rates. Hold on. If you're... Not every mortgage is a fixed rate. Hold up. Wait, wait, wait, wait. The mortgages are going up. I didn't even finish my original point. Hold on. You can't... Yeah, all right. First of all, you should be on a fixed rate mortgage. If you're doing adjustable rate mortgages, that's on you. That's your own shit to figure. You're a dumb fucking deserving of your house. It's been good. The idea for the last 10 years to be on a variable rate mortgage... It's called a gamble. Okay. If you want to gamble on a $200,000 plus loan and a variable rate, if rates go up, you deserve to lose your house. Fuck you. You're gambling on the market 100%. So that's number one. That's number one. Lose your house and deal with it. Well, we're still at all time like lows for interest rates. So I don't think people are going to lose their houses because a 5% is still in comparison to 20 years ago, extremely good. It's not really low rate. Okay. 5% mortgage rates are very low in... Okay. Holy shit. Hold on. It's just like so much dog shit information. If your rate was... How is that dog shit? How is that dog shit? It is a better rate than it was like 10, 15, 20 years ago. The rate's not a comparison to what it was 10 or 15 years ago. The rate is going to be compared to what you actually open your fucking mortgage at. If you open your mortgage at a 2% or 3% rate, your rate bumps two points, your payment is going to go massively increasing. It doesn't matter if it was higher than 10 or 15 years ago. Destiny. Destiny. What did she say? Let me just say this point. Hold on. No, no, no, wait. Destiny. Stop. Stop. Stop. You know we've printed more money in the past year than we have in years past. So you know that we have more money out there. That has nothing to do with anything. That has nothing to do with anything. You don't think that lowers the value of money the fact that there's more out there? The USD is looking at the outperforming like every fucking currency in the world right now. What the fuck are you talking about? There's more of it. So that's why we're having inflation. All right. We just have to go to the next one. Inflation is good if you owe a bunch of money. Yeah. Thank you. This one coming in from... Rumpley Dupuis says, Can you ask Nick if he has hated my people ever since the time I filled an empty Frito's bag with salted mo-hell scraps and he ate them all? What does that mean, Nick? I don't know what that means. Whose people is that? This one coming in from Sausage Lore says, Nick and Destiny, the Hispanic tag team duo. Let's go. Wow, that's pretty neat. This one coming in from my... Yeah, we're BFFs. Huh? I said, yeah, we're BFFs. This is pretty cool. This one from Minecraft players says, Shout out to women. And... Hey, who's this black guy? Huh? What? Who's this black guy that just jumped on? Oh, do I do be your black? Oh, sorry. I didn't realize that the thing had gone off. I didn't know you were black. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I love blacks. Learn something new every day. D, thanks very much for your super sticker. I didn't see your question. How do you talk? You talk like an old man, Nick. What is going on? It's like somebody took you. It's like you came out of like a time portal from like 30 years ago. Oh, it's literally like somebody took like an old guy who was like, yeah, who was like living 30 years ago and like put him in a time machine and like and brought him here and put him in a suit and that's literally Nick Fuentes. Thank you. Thank you. Projected him into a 14-year-old. This is what I'm going to get from GJM. 30 years ago is only 1990, though. Pete, is that true? Oh my gosh, it's true. He's an old man in 1990. It's even further back. Yeah, she's just born in the 19th century. Yeah. GJM says, for prentin, what is the word woman referencing in this context specifically? How do you define a woman? Yeah, so I've said this three times now. My definition of a woman is for someone to do two things. One, identify as a woman and two, be accepted by their community as a woman. Woman as a social role. This one coming in from Light of the Twin Lambs says, let's, we'll talk about that later. The Legend Rift says, if you want info on women in ESG funding, namely environmental safety and governance, visit Ryan Dawson's sub-stack. What is everybody's thoughts on Ryan Dawson? I think, I've always said this. I think he's cringe. I mean, we agree on like 9-11 and all that, but he's like a bleeding heart liberal. He's like, oh, like, I don't like Israel because they're mean to Palestinians. And I'm like, I don't like Israel because, wow. All right, let's move on to the next one. Are you okay? Any other fans of Ryan Dawson? Okay, this one coming in from Vasili says, Destiny says democracy gives everyone a free choice to choose. But would he accept the argument that most Western countries put pressure on women to work so it can't be called free choice? I mean, in that case, if you want to go fully deterministic, there's no free choice for anything. There's always pressures to do everything. There's going to be pressures from your church. There's going to be pressure from your community like everybody's pressured to some extent. We just kind of have to choose like how to balance those pressures out in society. Some of them might be obviously too far, but others can be like a little bit more hidden, right? Like boys are pressured to play video games in a way, more than women are, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I think maybe edging just slightly on a nirvana fallacy there, Destiny. Yeah, obviously certain things are going to be, have more pressure than other things. Nothing's perfect. But I think like there's specific things that we see happening economically that push people in a particular direction. I mean, like a good example was me and my wife are right now, we are weighing whether to have another kid. And the pressures that are on that is not just do we want another kid? It's what's the political situation? Like how dangerous is it for this to happen? Do we have the money? Do we have the stability? So like the larger society puts a huge amount of pressure on people within it and incentivizes certain behaviors and disincentivizes others. Yeah, I don't disagree. I think I said that. But I'm just saying that there's always pressures. It's not such a thing. Anytime you live in any sort of society, there's necessarily pressure. Like pressure might actually even be intrinsic property of just being a human. You've got biological pressures. You've got personal family. There's always going to be pressures to do everything. I would argue actually that it's an inherent part of being alive. You don't know who you are until you meet like some sort of thing that's not you. Like the end of Evangelion, you ever see that show? It's like the one anime I haven't gotten into. I'll check it out though. I think the distinction here that you can legitimately make is that when the government engages in pressure and the government puts its thumb on the scale, that has a much bigger impact than other things, not than anything. But it has a big impact because the government ultimately has monopoly on violence. So the ability of the government to influence things through, for example, affirmative action is just really powerful. And that's why you've got to be really careful with any sort of legislation. It's because when the government pressures things, things change. So. Super disagree. I think that there are some things that the government can influence, like the types of investments we make or the ways we pay employees. But other things are really, really hard for the government to influence. So for instance, earlier, we were talking about birth rates. This is something that a lot of governments around the world have been trying to incentivize. Like how do we get people to have more kids? That's a really hard thing to do from a point of government policy. There's a confluence of family matters, economic opportunity, housing markets. There's a lot of things that have to come together for people to make those decisions. It's not usually a simple button that you can push in the government to produce more kids. Except maybe in the case of China, where you have literally restrictive child policies or something. I agree, but we have to ask the question in comparison to what. So the government has more ability than I think most institutions in society to influence these things. So that's my point, is the government has relatively a lot more powerful, a lot more power in most things. Yeah, potentially. But I think that there are other institutions that are really, really important. They can play huge factors as well. But I mean, the government is a big one. I agree, though. Like educational institutions also have huge influence. And like media institutions. Like there's so many institutions that have massive influence. So I don't want to say that the government is the end all be all, but just that it has a special power in its ability to enforce laws. You know, I will actually kind of agree with that a little bit in that. And I wanted to bring this up earlier because I know Nick is a big fan of Russia. The Russians give, I think, two years maternity leave. And the United States gives no maternity leave. Employers can use it if they want to. I remember like just when I was moving from one job to another, a person to sell the health insurance for that job. And this was pretty good health insurance. She was like, oh yeah, we had my baby last year. It only cost $6,000. And like, you talk about declining birth rates, that's what it is. It's this huge environmental and economic pressure on families within First World Nations because in my opinion, we are being bled by the elites for as much labor for as little return on that labor. Yeah, I agree with that. And I think we should have permanent maternity leave. It's called, you're a mom, leave, you're fired. That's not going to actually get what you want though. If you just kick people out of work without giving them a way to live, you're not going to get those white babies that you really, really want. Because again, people are going to have children when they are within a situation where they feel that they can have children. Yeah, I agree. I think the state should incentivize it in other ways. I think they should pay. I feel like in Hungary, for example, they say you don't have to pay taxes after you have so many kids. And I like what Andrew Yang had to say, frankly, about reconsidering raising kids as work and finding a way to reward that and restructure society to reward that. I agree with you, honestly, about the elites. You know, maybe we just misunderstand exactly the structure of the elite and what is to be done. Well, yeah, you think it's a specific minority. I think it's rich people. The difference is that Bretton thinks the elite are working 24-7, but Nick thinks they take off like Saturday evenings, basically. That's funny. That's good, Destiny. That's good, yeah. Bulletproof Tony says PS is greater than IL. This one from Zayton says, I agree with Destiny. This one from Silent Zero says, Destiny, I did it and would not do it again. There is no amount of money or job title that can compare to the value of my kids. Yeah, it's cool. That's good. If you make that decision, you should have ranked it. That's awesome. That's fine. I hope that's cool. This one from Zayton again says, Destiny is the chosen one. He will save America. This one from Bulletproof Tony says, you all see that? Ryan Dawson versus Funtes debate. Did you guys debate, Nick? We did, yeah. We debated, I think, twice or maybe just once. I'm not sure. Oh, juicy. And 3,000 Movers says, thank you, Destiny, for being the voice of reason. You got a lot of fans out there, Destiny. Jake Lezza says, let the right-winger speak. It's a 2 versus 6, James. Was it really a 2 versus 6? I thought it was relatively. But JJ Cello. I had trouble tracking who was on what side. You know who got Cameron on? A lot of the, you got some pushback from your own team. But you know what? JJ Cello says, Marie, to prove Destiny's point, your mom traveled with two kids and a dog. What did she sacrifice to do that? Her retirement? Your college savings? If nothing, then who paid for that travel? The man? Who is the cat? Is it not a cat? Oh, Alex. Here's my cat. Nope, she made a good investment before she had kids and it paid off. Gotcha, yeah. So workers paid for it? No. What do you mean? Literally, she made an investment in a company that extract surplus value. Did I say that? That's the only way you can make money off of an investment. That's how the stock market works. The only way to invest money is a stock market? If you invest money in a stock market? Is that the only investment I never said stock market? Well, what? Why do I have to? Why do I have to say? No, why do I? Because there's no other thing you can invest in. What? Maybe what you think. Maybe what you think. Because you can invest in economics, literacy, and housing. First trading stardust. This one coming in. Jamie Russell says, Trump langle 2024. Are you a Trump fan, Brenton? No, I'm the biggest man. No, false. From hell's heart, I stab it. Did somebody say my name? I said it was through my last breath at B. Out of quick curiosity, who do you guys think is going to be in the 2024 presidential election? Trump and Biden? Do you still think it's going to be Trump and Biden, Stephen? I do. I hope not. Michelle Obama. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like it's going to be. So somebody. I do think it's going to be Trump or Trump and Kamala. So I do think it's going to be Trump and Biden. But I also, somebody brought up that Pence might run, and it looks like with more and more time, that actually seems like a really good observation. I think that is actually that Pence is going to run, at least in the primary. I don't know if he'll win against Trump, but. But yeah, he's going to have a chance. That'd be a waste of time. This one from DDO Farms. Israel has a high GDP and a positive birth rate. Yeah, and that just, and that's that is one anomaly. Um, but listen, it just goes to show, it just goes to show, you know, we're trying to understand modernity. I mean, that's really the argument here. And modernity is bound up with Westernism, Westernization, liberalism, technological progress, free markets and free trade. And, you know, sometimes it's difficult to parse what is causing what exactly. But I mean, that's a good example of a country with a strong faith, a strong national identity, a high birth rate, even though they've got, to some extent, Westernization, as well as markets, as well as trade, as well as technological advancement. So, you know, when you find those, um, you know, those examples that buck the trend, it kind of shows what's, what's really causing what. And there's a few examples like that. So. You got this one from Xilinzeros. Does destiny check the most population study? Do you know what they're talking about? Nope. This one from Wesley Tart says, Hello, really enjoy the channel question. Is there anything prime time, Alex? 99 Stein disagrees with Kent Hovind about, and do they want to debate? I doubt it. This one. No, I want to, I want to debate Kent Hovind. I want to debate him. I think you'd agree on everything. Wesley. No, not everything. Wesley Tart says, Hope Springs, eternal James. Thanks for that. And Javid Benscom says, Nick, you believe the earth is flat? No, I believe it's round. I know it's cringe. Sunflower says. I'm a round earth earth. What does the F stand for? In turf, Brenton stands for feminist, but in my opinion, by throwing trans women under the bus, they are fundamentally undermining the claims to feminism. And you can see it in the fact that they are frequently like making common cause with people on the far right. Specifically like Sargon of Akkad was made when he was taking the turf position in our debate. So yeah, I mean, I, the F does stand for feminist, but I don't think they should be considered feminist. Maybe people will disagree with me, but that's my opinion. Isn't that kind of way? If I could say like, I feel like you wouldn't disagree that I'm a feminist, Brenton, but I think Alex was making, you know, in some sense is a valid point with some of this stuff. And I think it's too easily written off as somebody being a turf, when we're just trying to describe different populations within the, you know, the category woman, right? So, Well, I mean, exclusionary radical feminists. So you still need to deal with the arguments that I'm going to put forward. Yeah, they're real questions. You know, I don't need to talk to you. It's like that's kind of fine. This is from Father Reynolds, says God, man, children, women, critters. What does that mean? Mr. Krabs, is it okay to have white babies? Is it okay to be white? Jesus. Yeah. It's totally okay to be white. This one. It's okay to be white, but that's a white supremacist slogan. They're trying to slip it out. Well, I am the savior of the white race. I had no idea that was a, yeah. This one from Kyle James. Nick, do you really want to want any person to procreate? As far as I can tell, there is only one man on this panel. Let's see. They asked who you want to procreate with, Nick. Me? Justin KG says, why are liberals so focused on minority if the majority suffers? Because the majority has more power. I mean, I'm not a liberal. I'm an anarchist. But yeah, obviously you protect the minority because the minority has less power and therefore can be hurt and abused in a much larger way than a majority which has the ability to protect itself with sheer numbers. This one from Kullivar. Question for Destiny. This can't be true, Destiny. Why is Star Wars the last Jedi, his favorite movie like he told Mahler? You really, you really said that? And why is Rose his favorite Star Wars character? A team rings supreme. I mean, it's just, it's the best, it's the best of the Star Wars. What am I supposed to say? This one from Autism Forbes says, can you ask Jesse from Pot Offal to sing aerials by system of it down? Thanks, sure. Nikki says, James your beard, thank you for your kind words. Sasha's Lord says, Doobie, why do trans imitate Instagram models? I think there is some truth yet to the idea that trans people do tend to play into patriarchal stereotypes about women. Why did Doobie get asked this question? Yeah, well, I think it's because I was like defending it, I guess. But yeah, I think there was some truth to that. Just like with drag queens, I think there was some truth to them being like, basically female blackface. To be fair, also tough. I did not clock you. So until you said something, I was 100% thought you were sess. Lying bitch. Interesting. Wait, so I'm not interested about that. I clocked it with the voice. Is this true? Is this true that not all, but generally that trans people, let's say a person is trans, transing from male to female. This is the word escapes me. Morbying. That's what we call in the community. And I was morbying from male to female. Thank you, Steven. Is that true that these people, it's like these people, sorry. What I'm trying to say is, is it true that like, you know, like where it's like a sleek and fit woman, and then, you know, like the bizangas, like, you know, like huge, like, is that true? Is that what you mean by archetype, Doobie? Are you confusing trans people? I'm sorry. I was laughing at the opening. No, I think he's asking like, why did trans women try to go for a certain, like female archetype, try to look a certain way? I think I have somewhat controversial opinions on this, but I think that like, if you are someone who is raised as a man, your entire life, and like biologically, you are filled with testosterone, and there's like a high prevalence of autism within the trans community as well. And so like, if you are kind of a socially isolated person, raised as a man, and you are trying to think, you want to be a woman, and you're trying to figure out what a woman is, I think that your conception of femininity is very likely going to be based off of a few different sources that are maybe not the most true to like, so like one of these is pornography, another one is anime. And so you've seen like the trans community, a lot of people wear like thigh high socks, and like little like anime skirts and stuff, when they're early on in transition, and they emulate a kind of womanhood that is like very specific to the kind of women that they're aware of within their world. So I think that's why you see like certain trans like aesthetics, like the thigh highs and whatnot, developing is really because of that kind of dynamic. I think that as people more further into their more vision, they kind of, they just want to be like attractive and like they've got an idea of like, what is attractive by society standards? And that would be like, I don't know, I guess like the Instagram model look. And so like some people will go after that. That's not really something that is easy to achieve, but like, I think that trans people probably pursue that for the same reason as cis women do. Yeah, I think that question was for me, but yeah, I totally agree with everything, April or calf cash. I just want to say, I just want to say, Alex clocked me before he clocked Taftash. So, yeah. What is it? Well, Alex, no, I knew April. Not really clocked, but. No, I knew April. Yeah, we go way back. I just didn't know if you were a startup. Yeah, we're tight. You mean like take a jab at, was that what you mean by clocked someone? Well, I don't know. Well, I don't know that they're trans. But like, yeah, I mean, I'm not trans. I'm not trans. I'm not trans. But you are a turf though, right? Stardust? You're a transgender radical. I'm not a turf. I'm not a turf. Blame. This one. I did not clock Dubia's black. That's the one that evaded me because he doesn't sound black. I'm still, I'm still. I think that was a fake reveal. I, you know what? I didn't clock, I didn't clock Nick as literally an old guy from 30 years ago. I really, I just, I didn't, I didn't really, because I clocked that immediate thing. I think he has a measurement question to see. Well, you know what? He does have, he does have like the mannerisms of an old man, you know, sometimes. What? It's not a bad thing. It's just a thing, you know, so. I have a theory. It's kind of funny. My theory is, is that Nick is an addict and he's not necessarily of drugs, but I've worked in radio for years and years. When you say radical, very, I guess, things that you're not supposed to say, you get a shot of dopamine to the brain and a lot of people, when they get pulled into like a radical hole, it's because they are self-medicating in some way. They're chasing that next hit of dopamine. Do you think that's why you're an anarcho-communist? No. Yeah, no, I'm an anarcho-communist for a number of reasons. But I will say that I did recognize it in myself when I was working in radio, and it's one of the reasons I stepped out. I'm not a shock jock, though. I mean, I make jokes. And to be fair to Nick, I think most people wouldn't assume that I'm black. I mean, I think that's totally a fair. I would say Nick's biggest problem is he wakes up at 8 p.m. and that's morning for him. That's degenerate. The worst thing. I'll throw a nick of bone there. Curtis Fowler says, China's population will be half of what it is or 50% of currently living folks in China will die by 2050. I can't find a projection for the first one. It's between 2050 and 2100 or like 2100. So I think that's usually where the estimates range. And you have to be a little bit... Obviously, predicting the future was always difficult. But by current trends, or if you guess that trends are going to accelerate or decelerate, you'll get different predictions. Gotcha. GBO Farms says, why does Duby continually talk about man, boy, sex? You don't talk about that. I find it fascinating for a ton of reasons that I'd love to talk to you about that later. You guys are gay. It is. Let's see, Austin. It is interesting. This one from Austin Autism Forums. Please ask Jesse to sing anything by System of a Down. I have Autism. Okay. Mark Lozano says, is anyone going to mention how women are hypergamous? Also, ask O to Nick. Keep being awesome, champ. We love you. Are women a hypergamous gang? No. Yeah. Absolutely not. Like, first off, like hypergamy isn't a thing in humans. But then second of all, what you're trying to say is, women are constantly trying to date and marry up. I mean, everyone is trying to get the best partner that they can that they vibe with the best. Women are under added economic pressure to find someone who they don't just like, but can also provide for them. I mean, you mentioned Taft, the sort of the MRS degree. I mean, there's specific economic reasons why they would do that. I think what's happening is, is that some people who feel like they can't get a woman, blame it on hypergamy when in reality, women are like 51% of the world. At the moment. So, like, there's actually more women than men. I don't know what that has to do with anything. Means there's enough partners for every single man. Yeah. But that's not how this plays out. Like, we know that sex is decreasing for like millennials, but that's not true for like the most attractive, like most competent guys. They're having way more sex. And so like, the slackness is somewhere. Where are you getting that information? Oh, well, actually, data is specifically, they did like a big study. If I recall correctly, I remember seeing a study just a little while back that it was like a few years behind the male virginity study. But essentially virginity was, it showed in the study that virginity was on the rise for women too. I would have to look into it again, maybe not at the same extent that it is for men, but it was showing that virginity was rising for women as well. Yeah. Millennials are having, or like the youngest generation is having way less sex. And it is disproportionately, that figure is contributed to by men. And like a very specific group of men, which is like men who are like on the bottom half of like looks attractiveness, competence, and whatnot. But like it is in general sex. I say so many words, but you could just say gripers. Sorry. Just Nick type of men. She's ha ha ha, that's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, hi man. Nick, have you seen that meme where they put you on, your face on Flanders when he's, or not Flanders. The guy who's gay in The Simpsons and likes Mr. Burns. Smith, we must move on. Yeah, yeah, he's got like women dancing in like, like bikini tops and bottoms. And he's, he's cringing away from them. They stuck your head in that. Have you seen that one? No. Next up, Alphabet says to everyone, do you think the cost of living, living spaces and typical work arrangements in a society affect the fertility of that society? Yeah. Probably. Yeah, but I think maybe people overestimate that. This one's going to be on Rachel Wilson says, buy my book on how feminism comes out of the occult and Alex is a national treasure. It's Rachel Wilson. Hey, I appreciate that. Jesus Christ. Thank you Christ. Hey, put it into fact. I am, so deal with it. This one comes out of the occult. What do you find? Here's what it is. I'm a national treasure. This one from Leslie Flanders says, for Nick, should women be blamed for being raped or sex trafficked? What? No, no. No, I don't think so. This one from Robin says, what are the great female empires of history? If there are none due to males keeping them from greatness, isn't that proof of their, let's see, what does Toto mean? Like T-O-T-O. If their inability to do so, I don't know. So what are the great female empires of history, Brenton? The great female empires of history? Yes. I don't think there are any female empires, but again, like the only empires that we've had, again rose about 6,000 years ago, and except for like the Mongols, they were all single-gotted, like it was either Christianity or Judaism or Islam. There's something about that particular type of religion that emphasizes like male leadership and also emphasizes empire and conquest. So yeah, there probably weren't any female empires that we have record of, but again, that's just because the only cultures that do empire also tend to be heavily patriarchal. Oh, hey, hey, I want to say this thing. I'm going to outflank Nick on the right here. The real based answer actually is women are currently presiding over the largest empire in all human history. The United States has become an empire ran by women. That's why it's being driven into the ground women and feminine energy are infected men all over the United States. They're ruining the schools, they're ruining the institutions. Like that's what's going on, right? Well, I can't women get drafted. 51% of the world's population is women. It's not enough. We need to up those numbers. Yeah, but why can't women get drafted if the world's ruled by women? Because no one passed a law that says women have to get drafted. I would prefer no one be drafted. Women are running things through the scenes. They don't want to get drafted. They want men to die, so they can continue their control. Why can men get drafted and women can't? Wouldn't I say there's a war on men that we have to be forced to fight a war? No, it says that the military thought that it could do better. Do men are stronger and better? Yeah, exactly. No, it's going to expand faster by drafting men. But there hasn't been a draft since Vietnam. Yeah, but hey, World War III, Ukraine, we just gave them another 500 million. No, that's not all women are big titties. They're all in Taiwan. You never know, dude. That's not what I would also say that if America is a female empire, then that would be a credit to me because America got us ass kicked by the Taliban. So it was literally guys and rags beat the shit out of women with thermal and UAV and freaking stealth bomb. Hang on, hang on. A bunch of guys is trying to change this. It's literally the Taliban every day. If it's women with drones versus boys in the Taliban, I got Taliban all day. Money's on the Taliban. Nick, no one has ever beaten, no empire has ever beaten Afghanistan in the long run, not Alexander the Great, not the Soviets, not the Americans. You cannot control. I've never heard this before. Afghanistan is a graveyard of empires. I've never heard that before. So then why are you staying stupid shit if you assume that you did see it before? And they got their ass kicked by the Viet Cong and we got our ass kicked by Iraq and we get our ass kicked all the time by boys, by the boys, by ISIS, not that I support ISIS. The war is actually really hard and empires have difficulty against this new, more or less new tactic of permanent. Because we're not grasping the nettle. Okay. This one coming in from Robin says, what are the great female empires? Got that one. You just asked that one. Better go Robin, dumbass. Dupke says, please settle the debate. Are you natural? I'm all natural, only creatine. John Coyne says, Democrats change to the definition of what a recession is for Brandon. Is this true? Wow. Yeah, actually true. I heard that they were, I heard that one of the reasons why Biden has been so fucking slippery lately is because he's been up late every night trying to edit that Wikipedia page. Him and Kamala, I think, are in the Oval Office on their MacBooks. They keep trying to change the definition. It's not working. We caught him. This one from Ghost of Captain Titus Forrest or Frost says, Revolutionary war has fought to free this country from the very same banking cartel that runs the central bank. Oh, no. Never mind that. Oh, I see. Not a bad. Counsel Jen. Thanks for your super sticker Ed Fish died. LOL says, Can destiny do the economics rap again? Do you have a rap, Steven? No. This one from David. Yes, do it. Do you not have it? Economics rock. Economics can't suck on my cock. Economics are really gay. Economics every freaking day. Inflation. Inflation station. Joe Biden is retarded. When I go to the club, I still get carted. I'm a pimp on a blimp. Inflation can suck my dick. All right. You're like someone transplanted the brain of like a middle schooler into a semi adult body. What are you talking about? This is a fucking genius. How dare you, Brenton? Thank you, Stardust. Thank you. Yes. You know what the real topic should have been? I don't know. Did anybody chastise Alex for his disgusting treatment of AOC earlier? Shut up, dude. That's my girlfriend, Steve. So listen, you need to shut your trap. That's how we make love. And that's how I, you know, I shut your energy. Actually. And she liked it. And she liked it. On ironic degenerate fucking behavior. Super disgusting. I was surprised you guys were over it. Just because you're gay and you have an open relationship with your wife, you let her get banged by other dudes. See, that's just like AOC. Riley. Beautiful. I know, but see. Here's the thing. Steven, you let other dudes bang your girl. So you're calling me a sexual degenerate. Why a guy's jizzing on your wife? I'm calling you a sexual degenerate. No, I'm a jizzing on your wife. Actually, on her wife. Guys are jizzing on your wife. You're getting jizzing on your wife. You're getting jizzing on your wife. She is on your wife. Absolutely sexual degenerate. Alex, he is so, he is so alpha. He's so alpha that he's not intimidated by other men's jizz, okay? God damn god. Men's jizz, jizz don't faze him because he's so alpha. Are you enough? Yeah, you're so alpha. Other guys are blowing the load on your girlfriend and you're alpha. Absolutely. Listen, there might be a hundred guys. Oh, that's awesome. That's really not degenerate. There might be a hundred BBCs blowing their load right now, but I'm still on another sexually harassing women. How crazy is that? That's what's coming. Oh, really? That's better. Oh, my God. Come on, Alex. Two cocaine fallacy. Look it up. Listen, Strive says... Dude's blowing their load in his wife or his two cocaine fallacy. Look it up. They said, let Destiny finish his point on the economy way too many dumb points that cannot be left to rest. I think they were enjoying your... I think the point I was just trying to make is that it's hard to tell if we're actually in a recession. It's a really hard thing to measure. People will focus on certain figures on like the CPI or whatever, or people will look at like, like mortgage rates, or people will look at like two quarters of GDP growth. But there's also like really weird things happening right now too. Like unemployment is very low. We don't have like a huge unemployment crisis right now. Wages are growing really quickly in certain sectors that are outpacing inflation, even depending on what the Secretary was talking about. So it's a very weird economic time we're in and the idea that like everything is shit just because gas prices are high is kind of silly. And it's not tracking on to the lived experiences of a lot of Americans at the moment. Yeah, but the employment... The OPPO 5 has just got rid of 10% of its workforce. Who? It's like Shopify. No, who the fuck? Why the fuck would I care about one company? It's not one company. That's just... You're seeing it happening. It's reborn throughout the industry all the time. You just happen to have a shop through Shopify is that why you're paying attention to that? No, you just look at unemployment rates. No, it's because like I see everyone freaking out on TikTok. It's hilarious. Oh, okay. But when I just look at the news. That's because they have a Shopify. All right, that makes sense. Look at the... Just look at the unemployment rates, right? They're very, very, very, very, very low. The idea that like we're in like a traditional recession where everybody's getting fucked and like everything is something that is just not true. It's a very weird time we live in that kind of way. Not everybody's going to start just sharing girlfriends, Steven. It's because a million people are dead. Like that's why we're having this in my opinion. There's a labor shortage. They're just not our labor force. That's why wages are rising. That's why unemployment's low. Dandy says, people who subscribe to moral relativism will never agree with people who believe an objective good and evil. Thoughts? Jesus Christ is king in Revelation 2.9. There is absolutely no such thing as objective good and evil. And in fact, I wanted to get to this because what I saw actually at a nick earlier on was he was attempting to derive an ought from an is which we have known is physically impossible since David Hume. Like you can describe the world as things are but you cannot say that these are this way. Therefore it ought to be this way, especially not within the confines of morality. Well, yeah, because you don't believe in God. Well, you didn't ask. I'm a Buddhist, dude. So I do. Oh, my God. This one gets better and better. I don't see you. You want to talk to me about Buddhism? We can do it. I don't. I have not. Well, that's all right. Because I used to be a Catholic and I can know that you actually are a heretic. Oh, really? You were like the definition of a heretic. This one, come in. Samir says, all for equality in 50-50, but usually once granted, the X underdog starts chipping at your 50%. Day one, don't make me say God in the pledge of allegiance. Day two, I'm offended that you say God. Oh, nice. Is it true that the left is clamping down more and more on theists or religious folks? No. Yeah. Yes. What in what way? Why? Why do you guys think that? I thought, wait, hold on. I have a question. Didn't they just win a case in the Supreme Court about like getting to pray in public schools or some shit? Yeah, I know. But why was it illegal before that? Yeah. Why did they have to go to court? It was a separation of church and state. Yeah, hold on. You think that was... Well, I would just like to know like in what ways they're clamping down on religious people. A guy tried to pray during a football game and he got fired from his job. That's how. Well, that's not them. He took it to court and won the case. He had to go all the way to see. Yeah, I know. So that shows you there's a war on it. He had to fight in order to get that right to do it. He probably plans that specifically to do that. No, he didn't plan it. Okay, okay. He's planning. The planning is too much. Go get your tinfoil hat. Your name is literally conspiracy cast. I'm on the grid all the time. I know, but I'm just saying. Come on. You know, he didn't plan that. Okay, so to be clear. So like, is there some other thing? Because I think even if you were to try to make that argument, pointing to one dude getting fired because he prayed in like a middle of like a school event is not enough to justify like a clamping down. Well, they took out under God from the Pledge of Allegiance. So there you go. Yeah, I don't know. Did they really? Pats are very... They're a lot of very religious Democrats. So, I mean, I don't know what you guys are talking about. So wait, did they actually take out under God from the Pledge of Allegiance? Did I miss these? No, they didn't. But fun fact, the Pledge of Allegiance was created by a socialist. And then also, they also didn't they add that under God part in 1952? I mean, I hadn't heard anything about that. I don't know if it was in the Pledge, but they did add the under God to the money in 1950. Eisenhower added that in God. Yeah, in what? Yeah, okay. Occupied Democrats became a human being, walked among us. That's the worst. I just thought it was verifiable that I wasn't talking in advance. I mean, pretty close. Being liberal, Facebook page. 1954, Eisenhower added that to the Pledge. This one coming in from Flop Tina says, Stardust described Nick perfectly. Ask about his... Let's see. Also glad to see Marie and Alex are here. Next up, Nicholas Federico says, Howdy from Texas, war on humanity, in particular, men. Both men and women, though, space is 100% fake. Who will be put as in 2024? God bless. Nick means victory, but Alex wins. Hey, Alex, do you think space is fake? I don't know if it's exactly how they describe it, because I don't think you can look through a telescope with something, you know, thousands of lighters away. If there's a war on men, there's not enough of a war on men. We need more. Wait, is there... Do you think glasses are real? Alex? Eyeglasses? Yeah, does that work? Yeah, I think your wife has a wear. I mean, guys are juicing on her face. Nice. Do you think... Do you think microscopes are real? Like when your girlfriend is trying to find your dick? Does that work? Or like... If you have... If microscopes are real... Why don't you just ask your wife... If my dick... If my dick... Why did you bring it up? Are you jealous? If she needs to use a microscope to find your dick? No, I'm not! I think he's... He called me. He said that I'm a sexual harasser, yet he literally lets... You are a sexual harasser. You keep talking about common people's faces. It sounds like you want them on your face. No! When he let it happen on your girlfriend, I knew that's disgusting. Well, we were just curious. If you think that... If you think that... If you think that... You were kind of picking my gaydar when I first met you. If you think that glasses are real, I'm just curious why you can't think telescopes are real. Isn't it kind of like the same... No, I think telescopes are real. I just don't think, you know, looking at a telescope, you can tell everything about a planet or something like that. So I don't think they know everything about the planet. But anonymous one says, James, can you set up a Vosh versus Nick debate? I don't know. Destiny, what do you think? Do you think your buddy Vosh should go for it? Vosh doesn't debate right-wingers anymore. This one probably... I would be all for it, 100%. Vosh is afraid of Nick. Says Nick is handsome and smart. This one from Mr. Krabs says, if all it takes is to, quote, identify as a woman and be accepted as a woman, is Rachel Dollazal a black woman because she identifies and is accepted as a black woman. No, because race is not a social role. Race is like a technology important. Wait, isn't race what people look like? Isn't race kind of... Never mind. Did you say earlier that woman is a social role and it's an idea? And it... Okay, so what's... If you're saying that race is not that... You think that race is more tangible than... Well, no, I don't think it's more tangible. I would say gender is more... Not gender. Sex is more tangible than race. Absolutely. Yeah, significantly more tangible. I mean, the reason we have the races that we have right now is it was convenient to the Elizabethans. Like, there's... Race is used by the state as a means of policing groups under its power that it considers to be unruly. So, Renton, do you think it'd be better if people could just identify into race? Because then it wouldn't be pleased by the state, right? No. This is a tool of the state to suppress the masses. People don't identify. Like, people don't identify. Like, if a... You don't think that people identify as different races. If a judge or a cop is going to treat someone worse because of their race, if you know... Like, do be over here. Yeah, it has nothing to do with them identifying as one race or another. Wait, so for somebody to... So, go back to my original question. By the way, anything to do with a world that I'm a one. Do you think the world would be better if it was a world where people could identify into race without having it projected onto them by a cop or whatever? Do you think that'd be a better world? Without it being projected onto them? Where people just identify and that's it. I think you're just... I think you're defining race out of relevant existence. It is the projecting onto them by sovereign power that... But you think it'd be a better world, right? Where Rachel Dolezal can identify as a Black woman and be a Black woman, right? So, in the event that we had a world where Black people were not targeted by the state, but were somehow still a race, sure, whatever. I don't care. Wait, hold on. Can I... Because it seems like you're saying that if there were a Black person in the United States if there were a Black person in the United States who didn't, for some reason, had an interact with systemic oppression, had them didn't deal with the racist cops, maybe wasn't selling drugs, didn't interact with like a racist judge, right? If this person would be less Black than other Black people... They'd be a white presenting Black. I mean, in my sense that like... Is there something like inherent, like inherent about being Black that requires you to like be a criminal or like an interactive police? Like, what do you think? It's how the state perceives you. Okay, so this answers the question then. So, would they be less Black than a Black person who had gone through all those things? No. Why not? Because it would be pure luck that they didn't. If I could, if I could... I think you guys are already on this line, but I have argued this before just for fun, but I think, yeah, I think you guys are pretty much at this point already, but when somebody transitions to being a woman, the way that I've heard it explained is that when... That woman, like, because as soon as you start presenting as a woman, you inherit all of the oppression, that woman get in society, whereas you can't really do the same thing with race, you can't really like transition into a race. Now, I don't know how accurate that is, but I thought it was the same. There's also biological differences between trans women... Oh! Oh, I thought we were going somewhere different. I'm like, no, no, no. No, good God, no. Do you think there are biological differences in the race? Good catch, Steve. No, there are no biological differences whatsoever with... Not a single law. Yeah, there are. Like, pigments in the skin is not a biological difference. That doesn't have anything to do with race. Based on a brandy in a bag of hair. Wait, what the fuck are you saying, dude? You're saying pigmeny in the skin has nothing to do with race? It is how someone is perceived based upon the... But it's like putting the cart before the horse. Like, if there was a person who was... The difference is in skin pigmentation. Are you saying that that evolution stopped at the skin? It didn't go any deeper than that. Let's go! That's not evolution. So, no, you'd like... What? Why do you think... Okay, why don't black people have sickle cell anemia more than white people? Wait, no, no, no, wait, why don't white people have white skin? Oh, my God. Okay, this is like an entire debate here. It's only black people who come from every specific part of Africa that have sickle cell anemia. Why do you think there are differences in skin tone? Okay, well, why don't white people have it then? Why do you think there are differences in skin tone, like pigmentation, melanin, et cetera? Why do you think there are differences? I mean, those are inherited. It's because it's because hell burned us because we sin more. What? So... Where did this come from? Where did what come from? Oh, God. I'm sorry, you're going to... You're saying like, where did it come from? Why do you think transition races is because it's inconvenient to the progressive narrative? Okay. Yes. That's like... No. No, no, no. Okay, hold on. Jesus fucking Christ. The reason why is because you don't have it in your brain. Does it have a fucking race? You don't have an internal experience of race, right? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. But okay, you do... That's why progressives would argue that you should, theoretically, should be able to transition races. No, you can't transition race. That doesn't make sense. No, no, hold on. That'd be like transitioning ages. That doesn't make sense to transition race. It's social roles. No, it's not fucking social roles. That's what he's arguing about. That's what he's arguing about. I don't get what he's saying right now. Wait, that's who's saying? Renton. Renton is not a progressive. He's an anarcho whateverist. Okay, anarcho is whateverist. Okay, as a progressive on the panel, that is not my view. Okay, you cannot be trans-racial. And there's a fundamental difference in the internal experience of race, which doesn't exist, versus the internal experience of sex, which I think does exist. Which is what I was trying to say when I said there are biological differences. Like, they have done brain scans of trans people, and the brain is closer to the gender that they identify with as opposed to mine. Brenton, you don't believe this. You don't believe that you need to prove you have a certain brain to transition. You're not a trans-medicalist. No, exactly. This is my point, right? Because you believe that people should have the right to change whatever they want about their gender presentation, to take whatever hormones they are, and to be accepted into society as that, regardless of whatever's going on in their brain. That is the progressive position, as far as I'm aware, is that you should have the freedom to do that, right? I mean, yes, but I'm an anarchist. Literally, everyone should have the freedom to do everything, for the most part. Yes, so I think the consistent thing to say would be that it shouldn't matter what is in your brain, but you should be able to change your skin color, do whatever you want, and be accepted into society. I'm not saying that it matters. Look, I'm not saying that it matters what's in your brain, what I'm doing right there is I'm drawing a disanalogy to prove that Rachel Dolezal is not analogous to a trans person's experience. You can disagree with me on that, but that's specifically pointing to the brain as a relevant difference. Yes, so I can say that, because I'm a trans-medicalist. Okay? I think there is a relevant biological difference here, and that's that trans people have dysphoria, like a medical condition, which is why they're transitioning. And I don't think that that exists for trans-racial people. I think it's just attention-grabbing histrionics. So I think that's the difference. I mean, we're color-interf. She's a tariff color-interf. Is she a tariff? Toobie's not black. That was a fake-out. He's trawling us. You're not black. I knew it. This one's coming in. Do you really even look exactly how I thought he was? Could or is this? I'm assuming that's not black. Nick, if the America became a Catholic, theocracy would no longer be America. No, that's not true. That's not true because Catholicism is more Christian than Protestantism. So people go, oh, America's a Protestant nation. It's like, okay, well, England was a Catholic nation. Well, wait, hang on, though. Catholic Church is a mother of all the nations. Well, why not just go back to England then? What? Why not just go back to England then? Because we're in America. That's about it. Wait, hold on. I actually want to hear the theological about it. I'm curious. You say the Catholic Church is the birthplace of all of Christian religion, right? Because everybody broke off from the Catholic Church because they gave up on us. Okay, they're losers. But could you not argue that the Catholic Church is kind of like a break-off of Judaism, that Christianity came from Judaism, and that that's kind of like a betrayal of, no? No, because rabbinical Judaism happened after the death of Christ. The Jews of the Old Testament, their Messiah came. His name was Jesus. Yeah, but what about the ones that don't believe that? The ones that don't believe that he's a Messiah? He's just another prophet. Aren't you like breaking off from them like Protestants broke off from the Catholic Church? No, no, because Christianity fulfilled that. It's a continuation. You're making the question. They didn't believe that it fulfilled that, of course, right? They're just like, you don't believe that Muhammad is the prophet of fucking Allah or whatever, right? And they're objectively wrong. And then they went and they wrote down their oral tradition in the third and fifth century in Babylon and in Jerusalem. And it's called the Talmud. And they worship, well, in the Talmud, it says that the rabbis correct God. That's a different religion. So if anything, rabbinical Judaism is a deviation because the fulfillment of the Old Testament is the New Testament. And objectively, rabbinical Judaism is a deviation from that. All I'm saying is that if you like Catholicism so much, Nick, maybe you should go back to England or wherever you came from. So it would probably be Germany. You should go back to like Pakistan or whatever. India. Light of the Twin Lambs says, to Nick and Duby and anyone who wants to add their opinion, thoughts on the FBI no longer collecting race data in regards to crime. Is that true? I'm not aware of that happening. For Nick and Duby in particular, they asked. I just googled news stories. I don't see any of that. Is that I don't? I don't know if that's true. Sorry. I was draining my penis. I don't know if that's true. If it were true, it's really stupid. I don't think that they should do that. But they do that in other countries. Yeah, like in Germany, they stopped doing that with migrants and they do this all the time because reality is undeniable. Well, or they know what happens when racism gets out of control in Germany. Yeah, crime stops. Well, I think if there are specific communities that are having issues with crime, we need to be able to target those communities to fix those problems, right? That's true. That's true. That's not Germany. Germany targeted those communities, right? No, it's not going to last. This one comes. Appreciate your question. Samir says, maybe Ben Shapiro will run. He's a loyal following. Maybe. Sausage Lord says, Nick, thanks for asexual representation on the panel. Brian Cleary says, Nick and Destiny is my favorite bromance. When is the podcast? Jake says, Nick, if you had to marry Stardust, let's see. All right. That's weird. Bushy says, Dooby. Well, let's, I can't. Okay. All right. This one says, Bushy, Dooby. Oh, that's. Nicky says, Jane, appreciate it. But it was one to be an insult if it was all in here. No, it's not an insult. It's just they're asking why you're black. I don't I don't get it. I think they're trying to like trigger people or something. I don't know. Is that what they say? I do identify as a black man. We're trying to trigger people sometimes. But Nicky thinks you're kind words says, but why is it so hard to admit that men and women are different? I don't think anybody doesn't admit that men and women are different. Sure. Nobody does. Yeah, I'm certain men and women are different. Oh, okay. Prison Palace says, what does Nick think of Deborah's role in the Bible? Um, I don't know. This one from Yo says, okay, they, I think this is sincere. So they're not trying to trigger you taff. They says, was April's decision to transition influenced by porn brain poisoning from a young age? Maybe they are trying to trigger you. I don't know. Yeah, that no way. Is that a trigger thing? I was actually like somewhat late to the party when it came to like, I don't know, sexual awakening and masturbation. So probably not in my case, but who knows? This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Jessica puzzles as Marie's, let's see, Marie's mom's investment was having a lot of money. Also stardust wouldn't say it, but let's see. Tell taff I would 100% lesbian her up. Okay. Thanks. I just felt like it was inappropriate for me to say it right now. I would have called you after. Thank you. And this one from Ryan Rockwell says, as the only known virgin on the panel, shouldn't Nick have more to say on the topic sex and millennial demos? What's his take on why he gets no females? Well, as I said, I am an asexual incel. So it's a little bit different for me. I'm in sort of the category of eccentric genius, asexual incel. But I've talked about it. The problem is feminism. The problem is fertility rates declining all across the board because women are nasty these days. That's not my situation. I'm an incel. But as far as other people, women are not cool. Okay. Hold on. Can you wait? Why do you keep calling yourself an incel? Shouldn't you be a Volso? Isn't that a better term? I am an incel. So you want women, but you can't get them. I mean, I'm an internet celebrity and an involuntary celibate. Also, I am a sexual. Hold on, Nick, let's be real. There are plenty of women out there who would suck your pee before you, right? I don't think that's true. I'm dark. I'm like Ryan Gosling. I'm like, I'm like, uh, there are women on my server. There are women on my server who simp over you and talk about how hot you are. I don't think that's true. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Didn't you have like a whole thing with somebody who like sent you a super chat or something and they were hitting on you and then you did a whole, you know, rant about it? Oh, she was crazy. Nick, the last time you were on my server, you almost got it deleted. But I love you. And I want to change your life. Okay, so if you visit us, I'll 100% say you up with a neat girl. Okay, we'll get your dick sucked. We'll fly her out for you. It'll be a whole thing. That's immortal sin. Also, I am a sexual and I am an incel. And the thing is, okay, women are obese. Okay, in the room. So you have a small dick. They're not all obese. Actually, and a big pair of balls. All right, let's move on to the next one. First name, last name. And a star-nosed business. Alex did it look as big in person as it does on TV. What are they talking about, Alex? On TV, my dick. It says, I mean, it's a nice dick. I mean. All right, let's do the next one. Jake Lesbos says I noticed that. Let's see. I noticed that Marie disagrees with Nick on the ultimate role of women. Marie, will you have a dialogue or debate with Nick on this topic? I don't even know if we really even got into that conversation. I'm not sure if we totally disagree or not. Yeah, I don't know. Well, and also you're not even Christian. So I don't know what to do. I'm just like, I am, but I'm like, not practicing. So I think it's wrong to say you are something if you don't go to church and do all that. Can we take a moment to shit on all these? Nick, join me here for a moment. Can we take a minute to shit on all these non-denominational Christians, these quote unquote spiritual people that don't go to church, don't have a real relationship with God, don't have a real commitment to any particular sect. What are you? You might as well be crystal worshipers at that point. I think that's DJ. That's what I said. I don't want to like say I am anything because it's like, I think if you don't have a denomination and all this stuff, it's kind of like you're larping at that point. True. I agree. So like, I agree on this point. Marie, do you own any crystals or like frankincense? No progress says Alex one. George Natta says, Nick's thoughts about Sam C. Guzzlers. Okay. Nick's thoughts about Sam Cedar claiming to have emails to quote out Nick. Is this true? Did Destiny's buddy Sam say that he has those emails? Yeah, I've heard that. And I think he said that one other time. But you know, as always with these things, people say that and that challenge him to release the tapes. Where are they? Honestly, yeah, I said it a few times. I'd be very curious to see what that is. Here's the call out. There it is. Nick Fuente is challenging Sam Cedar. It's like Kira and a fucking L on death note right now on live TV, challenging to release the tapes. See if he doesn't. Well, yeah. And there was that thing a few weeks ago on what is a crazy days and nights where they're like, oh, someone's selling a gay sex tape of Nick for a hundred thousand dollars. Oh boy, this is America versus over. And then, you know, and then nothing ever materializes. Yeah, I'd be very curious to see what that's all about because that's been claimed for a little while. This one from Robin says purpose of women is procreation. The war is denying this. My God. So nothing has an inherent purpose. Women do like reproduce, but that's not a purpose. Nature doesn't have a mind to give something a purpose. Like it's him projecting that purpose onto the process of. Why does my cat yell at me because she's not pregnant? Is it not her purpose to get impregnated and have babies? Is it not women? Yes, it is. It is literally the purpose of living is to give life. Is the purpose of a river to flow? No, it doesn't have a purpose. It's just happening. Purpose is something that people imbue objects and pieces of reality with mentally. We are the ones that your dick have a purpose. No, no, personal question. This one from Sam Mahagna says, Brenton is what I visualize when I think of a redditor. Brenton, is this an insult? I don't know. I don't go on Reddit. So no, I have no idea. It is an insult for clarification. Okay. Thank you. At least he didn't call you a discord mod. So, you know, here we go. Sausage Lord says Stardust, why do you allow Brenton to appropriate Indian Buddhism while he also tries to allow trans women into biological women's faces? Okay. So I'm not a Buddhist. So, you know, it's not my place to be, you know, telling him, you know, gay keeping or whatever. If that's what you are, that's what you are. And yeah, just leave me away from it. Leave me. I'll be sure not to shock a booku you. So, like, yeah, this is ridiculous because Buddhism is essentially, like in a lot of ways, at least, how it started out in. Oh, are you, are you going to explain an Eastern religion to me that originated? Not to you. I'm explaining it to the guy that thinks that it should be racial cats. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. He's not a Buddhist. Hey, Stardust, where the fuck are you even from? Well, I'm of Indian origin. So. Okay, but what state were you born in? Can I pronounce it? Wait, what? Can I pronounce your proud? I thought you were an American, aren't you? I am an American. I am an American. I'm an American first. Are people in India just that imbued with the knowledge of Buddhism? Okay, calm down with the racial essentialism. I'm just joking. It was called a joke. You're trying to appeal to Nick here. Okay, you're emboldening his racist views. All right. How am I emboldening anything? Oh my God. But just so like Buddhism, especially like Theravada Buddhism, is essentially Hinduism stripped for export. The purpose of it was to go beyond India. You know how this is giving me PTSD from like college, whenever you get like all the Hindu, all the white Hindus and all the white Buddhists who come onto the college campus and then they would like, they would set up. Are you talking about Hari Krishna? Yeah. And they would set up their thing and then they would like, and then you go, you know, all the Indian kids, we'd be like, oh yeah, you know, like free food, whatever. So we go there and we get free food. But then inevitably you get like, you get, you know, somebody explains Hinduism to you while you're trying to just get free food. Yeah. Because it's a Hari Krishna's, those are occult. It's usually a white person who's explaining it to you. Yes. It's a cult that recruits white people in America. Yeah. Yeah. Based. This one coming in. Hey, that's like me. It's true. Oddly enough, yeah, I think that's the most honest you've been. Robin says, Brent, don't do philosophy. There are refutations for the you can't derive and is from an art argument from Hume. There are like attempts at refuting it. I'm not aware of any, but maybe I read the wrong books. Sam Mahogna says, Nick, when and how did the destiny best friends forever arc happen? I don't know. You know, he had this sort of great awakening. The last time we had talked before this blossoming friendship, you know, he was just brow beating me and saying, you hate everyone and you want to kill everyone. You want to kill all black people. It was on the Dick Masterson show and I'm like, no destiny. Like I'm damn. I don't know. You're chill like that. Like I'm just a chill guy. Okay. I'm a Christian. I'm reactionary and I don't know. I don't know. Maybe he'd have to say because I've always been a fan. Okay. I've always been a fan of the Starcraft gameplay. And I've always thought that he's sort of a secret gruyper crouching pet they hidden gruyper sort of actually going on. The actual story is that like I didn't realize, but me and Nick just have so much in common were Hispanic, autistic, and I'm going to be honest. I don't really believe in dinosaurs either. Okay. So, you know, when you're hitting, when you're hitting all three of those points, what am I supposed to do? You know, destiny. Isn't your son based now? Isn't he like conservative? You are obsessed with making come jokes about my family. So I'm a little bit scared to talk about it. I didn't make a come joke about your son. I'm just saying. I think he's teaching you. He's converting you converting. Hey, Alex, I was conservative. Like straight up until the end of college. Like I was like, you know, young GOP all for Iraq under Bush. In college, I was a right libertarian. Getting out into the real world is what made me an anarchist. This one coming in from do appreciate your question. Appreciate it. Fish monkey says to say there is no objective. Truth is a self-contradiction. You are making a universal claim by saying quote, unquote, there is no truth. The fact of the matter is there is no facts. You just made a claim as a universal claim as well. All universal claims, technically you can say that they're not true because like nothing is perfect. So obviously you could argue, I guess, that there's some objective morals out there, but you would have to identify them, find them and, you know, bring them to me so that I could examine them, make sure, oh, yes, indeed, this is objective morals. This one from Samir says, Alex, you are smart. Arguing degrades you. Stop incapacitating strikes as Brendan. Do you huff paint? Wait, I got to ask an important question. Does anybody think that Alex Stein could be like that better called like Saul's guy's son? Am I the only one that sees this? Probably, yeah. Didn't you work at like a car lot or something, Alex? I got a dealer's license. Yeah, I buy and sell cars. Yeah, what that was? Come on. They're a commodity. I'm a temp on a blend. I can see why I can see why you did that. You definitely are good. I could sell. I could sell. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I could sell, you know, underwear to ask. I could sell. I used to an Eskimo. I'm a temp on a blend. Yeah, I mean, I didn't just sit on a stream. I actually had to go out in a hundred and ten degree heat and, you know, sell cars in Texas. Yeah, I've actually had to grind it out unlike a lot of people on the internet. Yeah, I don't think so. David, what have you ever done? Have you ever sold anything you're like? Probably not exactly. You're at a real job. Yeah. Oh, what did you sell? What did you sell? You grew it. Oh, yeah. That's what you're doing. Are you talking to me or? I want to tell you, OK, I actually sell insurance. OK, that's my job. I'm an insurance person. I don't believe that. You could sell a car. It's real. I used to manage sales and I would hire you, Alex. You drive this freaking crazy, but I would hire you. Because I can sell. Sausage Lord says Maria is the only cis white woman on the panel. Do you feel scared? No, I think I'm fine. This one from R.H. says Marie Fuentes. This one from Lies Fern says, if I can identify as a different race, then if I identify as 100% white, will I be able to join Nick's ethno neighborhood? What? Say that again. If a black dude identifies as being white, can he join your ethno club? Oh, I don't believe in such things like that. And I'm going to be in the Mexican Italian neighborhood, anyway. Grace174 says Catholicism is heretical. Nick, why do you think it's okay to pray to Mary? I'm not getting into that. I mean, that's if you want to look that up. It's not heretical. She's a mother of God. She intercedes on our behalf as Protestant nonsense. Woman sounds kind of gay, so, you know. Well, we're not. Vetic priestess. Yeah, I feel like we have so many. That's okay. Keep going. Robin says, Nick, Rome broke from orthodoxy. Protestants followed. That's not true. Orthodoxy broke from Rome. Peter, Peter's a leader, obviously. Surfing Cowboy says, A Trun, a commie that aligns with every corporation, the six millionth comedian, a cat boy, a tech support agent, a random. Let's say, what is this? Okay. He's just insulting everybody on here. What is it? That's what he's doing. It's a transgender person, an assault. Nice job, James. That's like the N-word for trans people. Yeah, that's hilarious. They literally, yes. Wait, hold on. I'm sorry. It sounds like I'm joking, but it is. It's like a Kiwi Farms insult for trans people. I don't know if I came from Kiwi Farms, but yeah. Sorry, I did not know that for real. And then the commie, so for real, sorry about that. And then the commie, that must be Brenton, though. Yeah. Wait, which one am I? Well, the cat boy. Nice. That's Nick. Nick Township, sonny. Oh, it doesn't make sense. Clay did use- Cam, he was a cat boy. Clayton Hughes says, are Destiny and Nick best friends? Yes. We're not best friends. Yes, we are. Nick needs to work on his shit a lot, okay? Yeah, we are. He's inconsistent as fuck. He's asexual in his cell at the same time. Doesn't even make sense. Duality of man. They threw the classic pray to marry at you, which is an attack every Catholic has heard. And you let them get away with it. Okay, he was heathens. It's 11 and 30. You're not, yeah, okay. It doesn't defend his faith. Okay. Like, look at this guy over here. They did defend Steven. Okay, just unbelievable over here. He's got a lot of work to do. You're embarrassing me. I thought you were just friends. He's got a lot of work to do. You know, next time I see you and we're hanging out, you know, we're going to talk about this. Oh, yeah. And down here in Miami, we can go to Highly and hang out with my Cuban people, okay? Yeah, I'm inviting you to my birthday party. You're inviting my birthday party. Lights of the twin lamp says thoughts on Grand Theft Auto 6 having a Latina protagonist. How will they implement the prostitution mechanic? The fuck? Oh, that's funny. This one coming in from Dr. Robert says, Nick wants a girlfriend, but his ego won't allow him to admit there's something he wants but can't attain. It's not true. The asexual thing. I'm asexual and incelling. I hate women. This one from first name, last name says, Brenton is an authority on whether things do or don't have a purpose since he himself has zero purpose. I'm sorry, Brenton, we love you. No, I have zero purpose. Purpose is something that is created by humans. So I can create a purpose for myself. Someone else can look at me and think that they see a purpose. That's just how it works. It's a judgment. I don't know. This is always the conservative or reactionary argument is that progressives don't believe in teleology. They don't believe in a purpose in life. And so they're kind of directionless. And I don't know. But Christians don't believe in a teleology, but they can't follow their autellos. So they all have their own. The biggest attack against Christianity is usually pointing out the behaviors of other Christians. So at the end of the day, everybody's fucking up. And I'm not a progressive. So true. Ancaps. No, I hate Ancaps. She's depressed. Are you willing to marry Stardust or Taftage? Is it pronounced Taftage? You can pronounce it however you want. I think I say Taftage. If Taftage is your idea, you're going to use the other T word you used earlier, James. Don't worry. No, because Stardust is a one. White and Taftage is in the girl. Taftage is a guy. Not based. Excuse me. No, that is based. He's just not willing to admit it publicly. Taftage is a racist tranny. And that confirms that destiny subcommunity is a racist trans and gay people. Taftage could be a woman if a guy with a last name of Flentes can lead a white nationalist movement. I think that's fair. I never identified as white. I identify as black and Hispanic. Oh, yeah. I thought earlier that you believed in that. So then earlier, that earlier question was live. If a black dude did believe that he was white, he would be able to join your movement. There was a neighborhood. I wouldn't like doing my neighborhood. I would call the cops immediately. This one for an ambulance, for him. It's totally okay. There's maybe like there's a decent amount of questions left. So you have to go much longer. It's fucking ESC. It's 1230. Okay. It is really late. We can't all go to fucking Subway in 30 minutes. Get a free sub like you can, James. Okay. It's late for us. All right. That does nothing to do with the time. Okay. Next up. How do you get a free subway? Yeah. Wait, how do you show us, James? How do you get it? Show us. James, no. Don't tell a show. Show don't tell me because I don't. I don't know if we can get through all these questions. I'll show the tattoo. If you guys, if the chat can forgive me that we won't... You got a subway tattoo? No, show it. You don't spoil it. Show us. It's a small one. You won't even believe how small it is. Show it, show it, show it, show it. Nick, turn away. Okay. Actually, I have a subway tattoo. Whoa. Whoa. What? It's so good. This is James. I don't know. I don't know how to feel about this. What is that? I thought it was basic. I feel like free paid is free paid. I think that is, that's $50,000. That's $50,000 a subway. Okay. That's free subway for life, baby. There it is. That's fake, James. It's not fake. I think initially I lost respect. Why? I gained it. It was like five hours and it's so painful. I flew to Las Vegas because Subway had a promotion where they said, if you get this 12 by 12 inch tattoo, then we will give you $50,000 worth of subway, subway for life. And they did it. What? You're trolling. You're trolling. Wait, wait, shut up. Everybody chill out. You're trolling, James. Yeah, he's trolling. He got the tattoo for fun. Actually, it is a troll. You're right, Alex. No, that's not a real tattoo. It's a real tattoo. Google it. We all started the meeting. We watched the stories. Why would James get like a fake tattoo, stick it on his back, wait for three freaking hours for some random person to ask him about it? You know, it is funny. So like, I wouldn't put a pass in, but yeah, it seems real. It's a good investment. That sounds like the plot of it. That sounds like the plot of it. You've been selling it not even good. I mean, it's not even a gig. You're going to get, I know, it's not even very good. It's the worst shame. Yeah, I mean. It's not going to get cogent. It's sandwiches, combos. It's like Happy Gilmore. This is like Happy Gilmore. That's on you. That's on you. It's not Happy Gilmore. It's a community. That's when they had the guy name himself Subway. But James, are you allowed to like make that into something else? Can you like add to it or are you? Why would I want to do that, Brenton? How many sandwiches do you get a day? You get one foot long and you get unlimited meats? Or is there a limit of meats and toppings on the sandwich? It's $50,000. It's $50,000. Yeah, yeah. So. But there's a limit of $50,000. The gift card is $50,000 is a number and that is the limit. Yes. Yeah. Are they still doing this? Fortunately, they're not still doing it as a one day promotion. But basically the math I did is the sub that I get. I could get it like every other day a foot long for like 40 years. I can just see James. So there's like, you said they let A table in. I can see James like smiling outside as the eighth guy the night through to some fucking poor homeless guy that's trying to feed his family. When James is just like smiling. Can you get it removed? Can you get it removed, James? Do you need to show them the tattoo every time you go? Subway bread, bread. Do you need to like? A yoga mat. It's made of yoga mats. So that's why there are breads like that. Okay. Let's pick it up. 12.30. ESC, James. What do we got? So I do want to say folks, couple of things. One is if you happen to send a question, but it didn't get read on air, shoot me an email at modernaidwgmail.com and want to remind you our guest or link to the description want to say we highly encourage you. You can check out their links. We appreciate your guys' questions and want to say thanks so much for hanging out with us tonight. If you have not yet, hit that subscribe button. Oh, this is good. Just let me get this last one in. Winston Fujimori says, if Stardust misses it, Ghost Politics was right about Nick Fuentes and Graipers. Ghost won. Ralph lost. Baked Alaska is a federal government. What was he right about? Power Chat is a honeypot. Shout outs to the farms. Josh Lee, Ghost. The anime right. Jayden McNeil, Mr. Medeker. That guy's fat and ugly, so. This one. There you go. This will wrap up with want to say folks, highly encourage you. Check out our guest links in the description and thanks so much for being with us. Hit that subscribe button for future debates as Richard Spencer and TikTok star, Ken and far debate abortion this Saturday. You don't want to miss it. Thanks so much to our guests. You're welcome. Having me. It's great. Thank you for having me. Everyone. Yeah. Are we on or are we off now? I'm about to go on. I mean, we're on and still but thank you so much. And let us do it. Are you going to be the next Jared Fogle James? Are you going to take him to Jared Fogle? On the count of three, we're all going to say the worst slur that we know. Okay, let's do it. One, two, three, three. All right. Thank you guys. I'm going to want to say thanks so much for all of your support. Want to read some of these super chats that you had sent in in particular. The ones that I'm always embarrassed to read on stream. Light of the twin lamps says James, show your subway tattoo to the camera, please. Just did that. Thank you very much for asking. Malivia says $5 super chat for James to flex once for the camera. Gosh, I don't want to do that. Come on, Malivia. Seriously, you already saw me with my shirt off. Is that enough? Kyle James says, James, you are the real gig of Chad. Thanks for that. Says no need to pretend slam down the gravel on these mofos that get out of hand. Thanks for that. Appreciate your support. And Defki 19 says James, please settle the debate. Are you Natty? Yes. As mentioned, only Creighton. Definitely use a protein though. Mostly because it's convenient. It's just a great meal replacement. For the future says James, what subway sandwich did you get today? I haven't gone since Saturday morning. Once things, you know, things get kind of busy and then I'm usually kind of, it's hard to get to subway even though I am pumped to be able to go there more often. So that's cool. But want to say thanks very much as well for the questions I'm going to check in Venmo. I know there were a couple of sent. Let's see. Alejandro says, let's see, Grey's 174. Let's see if we've got your questions here. Let's see. This is a little bit awkward. That one, I don't even, I'm just like, why would you even put that? This one says Catholicism is heretical, go pretty married, Nick. I did read that one. Grey's 174, seriously. And but, you know, maybe on the other one, but I do want to say, like you guys, it puts me in an awkward spot when you guys put stuff that's insulting or just awkward questions for me to ask. Like, don't do those superchats. It's annoying because then it's like freaking A. Of course, I'm not going to freaking read that, even if we had enough time. But let's see. Sometimes when people are like, oh, they just make fun of Brenton's appearance. And I'm like, I sympathize. I understand the desire to make fun of Brenton. But still, I can't read that on here. I'm just kidding. Brenton, we love you if you're listening. Want to say though, thanks for your guys' support. If you haven't yet, we are only 17 likes away from a thousand for this live stream. So you guys, what are you waiting for? 17 more likes and we will have 1,000 likes for this live stream. Seriously, be one of the 17s. Seriously, it really does help the stream. We do appreciate that support. And let's see. AF Clips said, all of this talk on the war on women went throughout history. Queens were more likely to wage war than kings, showing that women are more quick to make rash decisions on important events. Any thoughts? Anybody? Interesting. That's pretty juicy. And I'm curious. What's your, I'm curious just your, you know, out of curiosity, what's your source for that? Are you able to tell me? Because I'm like, huh, I'm like, that's, I didn't, I've never heard that, but I'm intrigued by it. That's for sure. This one coming in from PayPal, Patrick Evans, question for Brenton, Marie or Taftaj? See, that's the kind of awkward question where it's like, okay, that we don't really want those. This one from Zonia Stargazer says, for the panelists, what are your thoughts on how straight men commonly fetishize trans women? Is that true? Straight men do that? Feminine looking men, fem boys and cat boys. You think this explains sort of an envy of femininity? That's interesting. I didn't even know it was true. And GT performer says, we're all side characters in Ethan Rals world. Thank you for that. That's pretty interesting. And let's see, got that one. And then let's see. Let me just see if I get caught up. Zonia says, do you check the Venmo during the question section? It just got your email, Zonia. Yes, we do. It's just that we ran out of time. So I didn't want to keep the speakers. And so that is something that I would have if we had more time. This is from, let's see. Mendelich M says, Alex, can you convert destiny to veganism? And then Dr. Robert says, sorry, I've been bashing Nick, but I will say this as a raised realist, Nick is the only one here truly capable of loving black people for who they are. I don't understand that. GBO Farm says, start us going to have my half white babies. Gosh. Okay. See, these are the ones that I don't want. Cozy says, nice, Evangeline on reference, Nick, love you bro. Golden says, Nick, let's see. Nick won. Let's go. Crisis King, real incel by the way. America first, total griper victory. And then let's see. Robin says, okay, it's just an insult to Brent. And again, we don't want those. Yeah, that's one thing I'm annoyed by is when people are like, you didn't read my insult on stream. Give me a suit. Give me my super check back. And it's like, okay, I've got, I've got a lot of freaking stuff on my schedule. I've got a lot of stuff that I have to do. And then, you know, some idiot tries to insult a guest, which will like, why would our guests want to come back if they keep getting insulted, especially some insults are just nasty. And then they're like, give me a refund. And it's like, you are an idiot for even putting that super chat in the chat. Now I'm just saying that only the ones that are insulting like that. Sausage Lord says, I can smell, let's say, lots of atheists. Samir says, lots of youth atheists is religion on a countdown. Dr. Robert, let's see. Other insult. Mr. Crab says, there are no denominations in the Bible if you confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10 9. Thank you for that. And Curtis Fowler says, purpose in biological systems is function slash role. What's wrong with using language that way? Biologists do. Ryan Rockwell says, Nick, being a sexual is in direct conflict with God's command to be fruitful and multiply. Do you tell other fundamentalists about your LGBT? Let's see. Jake, let's see. You got that one. And then Grace. Yeah, Grace, like yours is like weird about, I mean, just why would you say that? It's just like, these ones where they're like, can you give me a refund? And it's like, that honestly, even if we had enough time, actually Grace, I remember that one. I purposely saw that one when we still had enough time. I didn't read it. So yeah, like, I would suggest to you folks, 99.9% of you do a fantastic job where you submit genuine questions, or it's at least not insulting the guests. And that goes a long way because it really does help when we have actual legitimate questions that have meaning. And they're like, good questions. Because yeah, I'm just a, like I'm a busy guy. So it's like, sometimes when people do that, we're like, I insulted the guest. I called the guest like a lying hypocrite asshole. And James, you didn't read it. Give me my money back. And it's like, you were an idiot. Why would we as a channel that's dependent on speakers read your insults? It's like, yeah, great. We're going to do that so that we can cut off the branch that we are sitting on as a channel. That's just like idiots. So, but I want to say, thank you guys for being with us. Again, that's only like, less than 1% of people out there. So 99% of you, fantastic. I love your questions. I love that you ask them. I love that you're reasonable people. And so I do appreciate that. And then let's see here. But yeah, so if for future reference, please remember, we don't want insults of a guest. And then, oh, you guys remember this game? Simpsons hit and run. But yeah, pumped. Thank you guys for your support. If you haven't already hit that subscribe button and pump that we, we actually, so yeah, I'm willing to give a refund for a super chat. If it's something that's like, oh, that's actually like a good question. It wasn't insulting the guest. But if it's something like, oh, the person's a hypocrite and they're, they're also secretly gay and just all that stuff. And it's, and then they're like, James, why didn't you read it? Give me my money back. It's like, no, you're an idiot. If you would like come to this channel, again, this is the 1%. And the 1% who like come to this channel and they're like, oh, this is a smart idea. I'll insult the guest. That makes, that way it's harder for James to get them to come back on because the guests will feel like they were treated like, shit, when they see all these nasty insults in the live chat, through super chats. Great. Yeah, that really helps me. Do you get how I'm being sarcastic because it doesn't help me because people who are, treat the guests like trash. It's like, so anyway, but yeah, if you have an honest question, it was a legitimate question. Just send me an email at moderndatabate at gmail.com and then, you know, let me know and then, you know, we can, we can do that. So let me know what it was that you sent if you do happen to email me. But yeah, again, like, if there's an insult, it's like, don't, like, don't waste my time, just don't do those insult super chats. It's just like, seriously, don't do them at all because honestly, I would erase them and I did erase one, but oftentimes, the chat's moving so fast that I don't get to erase all of them. So want to say, thanks for being with us, though. I see you there in the old live chat, just for grins. Thanks for coming by. We did, we hit a thousand likes, you guys. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that amazing? Thank you guys for your support, seriously. Amazing. Maury Flats, good to see you in there in the old live chat. Saisho Navga, good to see you. It's a great job tonight, mods. Y'all rock. And indeed, great job. Thank you guys. Appreciate that. And then, Manuel, thanks for coming by. Milkshake, glad to have you here. Maury Flats, happy to have you here. Tyler, glad you're with us. Manic Pandas, thanks for coming by. And says, I can see you having to take your shirt off your entire life just to explain your tattoo. Maybe your second tattoo could be a paragraph below explaining the story behind it. That's so true. And Bloodstained Hands, says James has a massive skull. It's probably true. High Patch, says deja vu. Good to see you. High Patch. Lee Jennifer Corlew Ayers, says nope. Catholic churches are filling up. And then, let's see. Duby says, thanks for the invite. Thanks for being with us, Duby. Seriously, it was a blast. Love having you, Duby. Seriously, it's super fun. I like that you're easygoing, you're reasonable. It's just, it's fun. Thanks for your super chat support. Appreciate that. Says, Duby said in the super chat, thanks for the invite. I had a great time. Can you add in my Discord server with the links when you get a chance? That's where people are most likely to find me. It's just politics.gg. I could have sworn. Did I not? Oh, you're right. Let me put that in there right now. So no problem. I'm all happy to do it now. And sorry that I didn't think of that. You know, the funny thing is I originally put it in there, but then for some reason re-streamed, like changed it on me. And so I'm going to do it right now though. But yeah, that was one of the bigger streams we've had in a while. Like that was gigantic. We don't usually break 2000. That's like super rare. We haven't done that. Like, man, I don't know. It's been a long time. So that's cool. And yes, I'm going to put that in there right now. So Doobies Twitter. And then before that, I'm going to put Doobies Discord server. The biggest political discord server there is. That's cool. Good for you, Doobies. Seriously, that's based and red-pilled as the young people would say. But yeah, you guys, it has been a wild one. I can't stay much longer. And so I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. If you enjoy these debates, which you probably do, I mean, you're here still, I would highly recommend share these debates as that helps us a ton. Seriously, is just good old fashioned word of mouth really goes a long way. If you click the share button below, maybe you have a Twitter group thread, in your DMs, or a Facebook group thread, or Discord, or wherever the young people are hanging out nowadays for social media. You can share this link. You just click share down below, like I'm doing right now, and then you click copy. And then you can share that link. You can send it via text message. Maybe you have a friend who likes controversial, juicy topics like this. And in that case, you can send them this link and just like that, they can check out this debate. So that's pretty cool. And Rob Banks, good to see you. Thanks for coming by. I appreciate your support. And then Sudha Nim, thanks for coming by, as well as Bloodstained Hands, says James, is a robust brute. I appreciate your kind words. And then Eric W, good to see you again. Lee Jennifer Coraloo, Ayers, thanks for coming by. We are glad you are here. Luxe Christus, glad to have you here. And Robin, thanks for dropping in, as well as Randolph Richardson. And True, thanks for coming by. Bismarck, we are glad you were here. And then Duck Duck, happy to have you, as well as Theological Introspection, says, love the channel, James. Thanks so much. That means more than you know. Fire Rises says, great show tonight, James. Thank you for that. Seriously, Fire Rises, that means a ton. And then Manuel, good to see you. Tammy Davis, thanks for coming by. Says, I enjoy the debates. Thanks for it. Ah, that means a ton. Thank you. Vosh Fan, good to see you, as well as Debosk. Good to have you here. Says, I wish I could get that tattoo. Man, I don't know if you want the tattoo. It is so itchy right now. I've got to put lotion on it two to three times a day. And it is honestly insane how itchy it is. So hopefully it heals as soon as possible, because I'm like constantly, that's why during the debate, I'm like constantly like this. And then I'm like this is that it's itchy. Pineapple lot, Palatimus, thanks for your support. Says, I love this channel. Thanks for your kind stores, bloodstained hands. James Zahank, appreciate that. And then Zach, that's good to see you again. Zach and DJ Dissolve, happy to have you as well as, let's see, theological introspection and, but yeah, Manuel, good to see you. You guys, that was such a fun one. Tonight seriously was a blast. Samir, thanks for your kind words. Says, thank you for your keeping the debate civil. Some of us watch with our spouses and kids. Yeah, I know tonight wasn't super civil. I'm sorry about that. It's a, it's kind of tough. We know EDKH, thanks for being with us, as well as OES3, happy to have you. Time Lord, good to see you again. And want to say, yeah, if you haven't yet, hit that share button. Have you thought of a friend? Maybe you have a friend who likes controversial stuff. And you're like, yeah, my friend likes controversial stuff. They, you know, they would enjoy seeing Nick Fuentes and Destiny and Lauren Southern. Isn't that crazy? You remember back when like Lauren was on the panel, that's already been like, whoa, four hours ago, three hours ago since she left, which is crazy that I'm like holy smokes. That, that was a long, long time. So it's crazy that we're at three minutes or three hours and 42 minutes for this stream, which is just huge. But that's awesome. And I hope you guys enjoyed it. I love doing this. So we do appreciate you guys supporting the channel. And as I mentioned, oh, if you didn't know, we do have a podcast for real, like every one of our debates goes up on the podcast, usually within 24 hours of the debate. So if you wanted to listen to debates that way and save on your data, you can just click on that link in the description box. It's there right now. Or hey, just even easier, pull out your favorite podcast app. And just like that, you can be listening to modern day debates through your podcast. So that's a pretty cool thing to know about as well if you didn't know that. And then, hey, we do have a Patreon. If you didn't know that, it is in the description box as well under, it says, if this channel resonates with you, consider joining us and carrying out this vision. Namely, I'll tell you, I'll read it to you right now. My name is James, and I'm a PhD student in psychology in Colorado. Currently the mainstream quote unquote news networks are slanted, overproduced, in other words, lack spontaneity and authenticity and overly controlling in terms of what views are people they will allow. We're working on growing a truly nonpartisan platform that allows raw and edited takes on the big questions of our time. And yes, it's going to be controversial. We're going to host controversial people. It's just the way it is. And for every person that complains about who we platform, every time I see them do that, I will make the make sure the panel goes 10 minutes longer because we don't go for that whole like de-platforming stuff. We don't go for that here. Is that we believe that the best arguments will prevail and if we set up competent debaters, then it's going to go well. So Randolph Richardson says, thanks, James. I appreciate it, Randolph. Thank you. And Zumer Gropers, Zumer Gropers, happy to have you. Inception, happy to have you here. As well as that little guy, glad you're with us. Sig Sauer, happy to have you here. Thanks for hanging out. And Dunkin Donuts or Donuts, glad to have you here. Let's see here. Christine Stewart, glad to have you back. Thanks for dropping by. Joe Smith, happy to have you. And Pineapple Platymas says amazing. But yeah, I want to say thanks, guys, for your support. We want to, is there, think of, let me know if you think of ways, like if you want to email me, to let me know of ways that we can support the channel more, or I'm sorry, support the speakers more. Let me know. Because I actually do want to, like, find ways that we can treat them well and make them say, hey, like that really, that means a lot to me. So, now what I'm going to do is Zonia, let's see. Thanks for reaching out, Zonia. And let's see here. Let's see. Inception says, James, what's your personal ideology? Christian, and in the description box, it mentions a little bit about that. Like, if anybody's ever having a hard day, whether they be Christian, or atheist, or whoever they are, if anybody ever wants prayer, or even just a listening ear, I'm dead serious about that, shoot me an email at modern-day-to-beta-gmail.com, and I would be happy to be there for you, for real. I know that just life is hard, sometimes. I'm totally serious about that. I've had some like serious, like, I just know that life is hard sometimes. So, I just want to be here for you. And so, yeah. But let me see here. I'm just like, did I just see? Let's go. Thanks for coming by. I see you there in the old live chat. Sarah from Goose, thanks for being with us as well, as well as JD. Thanks for coming by, as well as my stomach feels so full. So, I'm going to go. But I want to say, appreciate you guys. I love you guys seriously. Thanks for making this fun. It is always a blast. Thanks guys for all of your support through the likes and sharing this channel with friends who also love controversial, juicy debates or groups online that love juicy, controversial topics. We appreciate it. When you do share this channel, it really makes a big difference. Jake Lesbos, as you should have Nick, Nick Fontezan more, need right-wing voice that pushes back against the left. I'm happy to have Nick on more. And I've enjoyed having Nick in these last two times that we've had, the only two times we've had him. I do remember Jake Lesbos. You were like, you were like crying so much before this stream. And you were like, it's going to be everyone against Nick. Oh, there's too many people. Oh, would someone please think of the children? It was like, bro, like seriously. But I appreciate that you finally come around and stop being a baby. And but no, for real, it was like, dude, it's like we try to give everybody a fair shot. So like, don't why do you slander us and be like, oh, it's all set up to like screw over Nick. If anybody got teamed up on tonight, it was Brenton, who's like the farthest left panelist by far. But some of yours is James, you can open a red bubble account for the channel. I can help you create some designs to sell merch to fans. We already have Teespring, though I totally appreciate that. So appreciate it. And Lewis, good to have you with us. I see you there in the old live chats. Stu Redmond, glad to have you with us. Thanks for dropping by, Stu. We hope you're doing well. And let's see here. And I'm pretty tired. I should go soon. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pumped, you guys. I'm pumped about the future. And so please, please don't take that personally, jaked, jaked lesbup. It's, but it's true. Jake and I are like, some some people in the chat, like before this debate, we're like, oh, everybody's going to team up on Nick. And it was like, no, it's not like just chill out. Because like I said, we're not perfect. I'll concede that. Like we, what's the word I'm looking for? We are not perfect. And so sometimes there maybe is like a little bit of bias. Like we're working on it. We're getting better all the time. We're, you know, improving. And so we appreciate you saying that. But let's see here. Andrew, good to see you in the live chat. We appreciate you. And thanks Randolph, who says, I uploaded this video. Did you? If not, why not? Thanks for that support. And King Reichenberger says, if James wanted to harm Nick, he just wouldn't have him on. I don't know. Nick actually has a way bigger, like audience than we do. So, but so in other words, like modern day debate, like we get probably more exposure than Nick does. So I'm pretty, like in a way, you know, I don't know. Like Nick is, you could say Nick has held the channel a ton. But, but yeah, no, I agree. I get your point though. You're saying like, come on, like James isn't biased against Nick. And that's the point is that like we, I always want to be as fair as possible. So like that's important to me. Like I just don't want to, I get no pleasure out of like treating anybody unfairly, even Brenton. So, but yeah, want to say thank you guys for your support seriously. And then DeBosk says, James, what's your heritage? You have a unique facial features that are in its sexy. Appreciate that, even though you're probably a guy. But I'm actually just like German and French. So like I don't actually like have any weird, I get, sometimes I get asked like, are you like a, what's the word? Oh, like are you Pacific Islander or something like that? I'm like, no, I'm like as white as they come. Voschfan says, James, you do good making sure everyone on both sides gets a chance to talk. I appreciate that. Seriously, that really does mean a lot. And the egg corn, good to see you. The morning star, glad to have you here. So the panels need to be smaller. I can see that we're going to go smaller. I think in the future, we're just going to do like three and three. So Colossus says, modern day debate royal rumble. That could be cool. In substance as James, I meant to ask what political ideology you are, like liberal conservative, that kind of stuff. Just curious. I'm a fan either way. I actually like, I'm fairly moderate, but I have to be honest that my, my inner disposition is conservative. Like I, that's like my natural, like, but I try to keep as open a mind as possible. So in other words, like there is a genetic propensity, like toward political views. And I think mine is probably conservative. But like I said, I try to be like, I try to read both sides. I want to be familiar with both sides. I really want to be, you know, and friends of both sides. Cause it's like, I don't want to miss out on hearing like the best arguments from each side. You might as well hear the best arguments from both sides. Like that's good. You can't argue with that as being a good thing. Matt says, you're the best James. Keep up the good work. Seriously. Thanks, Matt. That means a lot. Poppity says, glad to have you here in the old live chat. Poppity. And Hannah Anderson, thanks for your support seriously. And then light of the twin lamps says, I don't understand why people hate Nick. A guy like Brenton only gets his ideal anarchist society after millions of soldiers die protesting in government. Controversial, juicy to say the least. But for real, Brenton is also a friend of the channel. And I actually felt bad for telling Brenton to shut up. Like technically, I told both Brenton and Stardust to shut up at the same time. But yeah, they're both friends of the channel. We really do appreciate all of our guests. So seriously, they make the channel possible. So like I owe them, I'm thankful for them coming on cause it's fun. Like I enjoy this so much. And then Sarah from Goose says, I could see you being mistaken for Armenian or something, but I figured you were just European. That's cool. I could dig that. And then Jake says there were just too many people for this debate. When we have big streamers like that, we should make the panel smaller. Yeah, we can probably do six. We can probably do three on three next time. Like I'm open to that. Like we, I was even thinking I was like, yeah, that probably would be better. Second horizon, thanks for coming by. H-H, is it Hoffent? I don't know. Says, Lovey James, you're the man. Thanks for that. Seriously, that means a lot. J-Hunt, glad to have you. And thanks Colossus for being here. Mr. Hectic says, amazing. Glad to have you here. Thanks guys. Seriously, appreciate your guys' support. It always makes it fun. And let's see here. J-Hunt says, has James got a cervix? I don't even know what that means. I can tell you I'm all man in case you've heard otherwise. I'm, I'm a, what's the word? I was born male and I prefer the company. I like, I'm, I'm a heterosexual. Put it that way. Leslie Flemons, thanks for being a channel member supporter. Seriously, that means a lot. And Leslie says, thanks for this topic James. Well, thank you Leslie for suggesting the topic. Seriously. It was a great topic. It was a lot of fun and it mirrored the other one really well. So, seriously, we appreciate that. I love you guys. You guys make this fun. Seriously. And, we're excited though for real. We are passionate. This channel has a vision. And we are absolutely devoted to our values. And in particular, you could say that our values are instantiated in this phrase, namely that we want to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field. And that's what modern day debate is doing. So, we want to say thank you guys for your support of that. We appreciate it. We are looking forward to seeing you in the next one, which again is this Saturday, Richard Spencer is going to be debating tiktok star, Ken Den Farr, on abortion. You don't want to miss that one. My dear friends, it's going to be huge. So, I'm excited for that. Thanks guys for your support. I love you guys seriously. Have a great rest of your night. And we'll see you in the next one. Take care.