 Here's Jean-Carlo on the science dealings again. Well, this was this morning in Tampa. I think They did a very poor I guess bringing it bringing their side to it. I mean they They didn't have a problem being in front of the cameras and enjoying all the light when they were doing it in 17 and now they have to explain themselves and point fingers and Talking for this guy's guys talking for this guy. And you know, you gotta you gotta own up when It goes on with his issues with the scandal the way they've handled it I don't think the penalties were harsh enough players why player wise I think that At the end of the day gives you It gives more incentive To to do that if you're not gonna punish the players Part of it. All right So this is jumping off point because toward the end of yesterday's show Rob Manfred the commissioner baseball was giving his second address in The last three days. This one was in Arizona at the spring training homes of the Arizona teams And he essentially what he did was he put the ball in the court of the players Association So all the players are angry and they're angry at Manfred for not disciplining the Astros and We laid this out yesterday and Manfred more Forcedfully laid it out. He said the rules of engagement in being able to talk to the Astros the rules of engagement drawn up by the players Association was that they must be granted immunity or he would not or they would not allow them to speak to investigators so 3% of the union 3% out of a hundred 3% of the union played for the Astros in 2017. So that means 97% Seemed like they're very very angry with the Astros did but I think their anger is misplaced Yeah, you can be angry at Manfred for his heavy-handed dumb comment about Piece of metal when he's talking about the commissioner's trophy be angry at him about that You can be angry at him about the baseball whatever you want But don't be angry at him when it comes to not disciplining players He didn't have it on his own role in our right and our our responsibility. What is that Peter? I did that wasn't me It was an accident. Well, it wasn't my accident though. Okay, so the bottom line is You can't force a guy to do what he legally cannot do now the players Association Rather Then as Andrew would say just take the L They come back and said they said they didn't want to prosecute the players that they didn't want to punish the players That was never even on the table. Yeah, they said that but obviously if they had found something They didn't like they would have wanted to punish the players But then the union came back, which is their right and said we're not letting you talk to them unless that's in writing That they're granted immunity so blame whomever you want but At the point of the discipline There is no way whatsoever that man Fred could actually discipline the players which leads me to one thought This is what the players want and this is what's doable everybody Take the title away Somebody on Twitter today said I thought it was a really really smart thing if you went up to an owner Any owner of a major league team and said listen if you give me five million dollars and you promise to fire your manager and GM and Give us your first and second round picks for two years and you win a world series We take that deal every single owner would take that deal every single one So the Astros are not even staggered by this punishment But if the players expect Altuve and Bregman and Gouriel and Springer to be suspended then talk to your union leadership. Don't scream about Rob Manfred. I Hate to say he's the innocent one here because I think he's been fat-handed about this, but he does not have it in his power to discipline Those were the rules of engagement in talking to the players So how can he go back on that he can't the one thing he does have in his power? Would be to take the title away and Don I'll ask you do you believe if he takes the title away? That that would satisfy the players that the players of the Astros that would have suffered some negativity It would be much better than it is now. I don't think it would completely heal things, but would it be a SAV? Because at the end of every comment, it's they got away with it that I'm unhappy with the discipline I'm unhappy that they weren't punished by it. I think the majority of the players would be more than happy now Tony Clark spoke today Did he say anything of note? I mean I'm kind of going on perusing right now Here it is we have we have a cut of him not our job to discipline players our role in our right and our Responsibility in the conversation is protecting those rights of every player not just the Houston players Not just any other of the other 29 teams We are going to do that our role is not to Discipline players now having said that what you likely saw in the statement that you saw last night is Trying to appreciate what next step looks like as a result of what it's we've seen manifest itself Over the course of the last year or so or last couple of years or so and in doing so in our engagement with the league It's included a conversation in talking about player discipline as it relates to science dealing Tony's talking gobbledygook And I feel for him too because thank you because I was trying to understand it and I can't understand the bottom line is Even if they're the work in any union the worst people did the worst things they are Legally obligated to defend those people they are legally obligated to defend the 3% of their Constituency that actually did cheat they can't just walk away from them and go oh they're cheaters So Tony Clarkson a tough position. He has to defend them. He has to protect the players That's why I asked for immunity. He gave they gave immunity to talk to them. They gave it up They said they cheated in 2017 and now Manfred's asked well go back on you Or can you imagine how the players in the players Association would react if Manfred went back on the immunity that he granted them That wouldn't be right either. That's why we're going around and around the circles By the way, the guy who tweeted out about if you gave that offer to any owner is Eric Boland of Newsday I thought it was a really really smart thing that he said That's nothing. It's a small price to pay for a championship championships are hard to come by they really are but I don't know I Don't know what the end game is here. I don't understand the players being angry at Manfred. I don't get that I understand Justin Turner being angry about the metal comment. That was ridiculous It is not befitting a Cornell and a Harvard Law School graduate It's it's a brain cramp that Manfred had and to give him credit yesterday. He said I'm sorry It was a dumb thing to say and I'm sorry. I apologize. Okay, so that's it There's nothing more you could do with them, but they keep saying they should have been punished more when their union is Protecting them from being punished more and what Tony Clark is falling down on is don't go out of to me These are our rules and Hannah Kaiser who covers Baseball for Yahoo does a great job has this quote from Tony Clark neither MLB Nor the league wrote immunity on a slip of paper and slid it across the table The existing rules made it difficult if not impossible discipline players Those rules might change going forward. Oh, that's so it but it's just The idea that Tony Clark demanded something. I guess Tony Clark's trying to absolve himself saying I'm just playing by our union rules Right and and that's and that hopefully that will change moving forward And I think that's that's a step in the right direction as well. What I wanted to see was dialogue between The two parties now Jeff Passon made it made a very good point and something that I had not considered is that There's a legal obligation Tony Clark has to support yeah the players Yeah, the even the few players even if 99% of his union is against it Legally he has to defend the 1% or even less than 1% Representing the Houston Astros. That's what Tony Clark is saying here is I didn't ask for immunity. It's built in You know so but now we can open it up and maybe change those rules I think that's what baseball has to do right now going forward is learn their lessons Make sure something like this doesn't happen again if you were to do that and then take the title away I think that might be enough for closure and for us to be able to move forward knowing that something like this could never happen again We need to start with the point though Michaels that now every day worst you're saying in particular Why are you mad at Manifred? Why aren't you mad at the players union? We need to have that asked to players directly. Are they may be missing it? Like I know that sounds silly and ridiculous, but let's be clear not fair Some of these players may not be paying that much attention to it and they're just blaming Manfred and they I'm a member of SAG after I'm not paying attention to what's happening. So maybe they're not realizing hold on this might be on us Well, this is exactly what happens with the players association in the NFL. They all hate Roger Goodell They all hate the power that he has but nobody ever discusses. We gave them the power We gave him the power a lot of that comes from apathy about voting and paying attention to the union when the CBA expires They need to take note of this and make sure that the changes happen Don't just go to Cabo and just let your union representatives worry about it Get more involved in the example of two of the biggest sports in this country where the players are just completely ignorant to the process I remember in the NHL when they were going through the lockout Peter where their lives were being affected There were players that had no idea what was going on with the negotiations had no idea. Well, they're even fighting for Because players they just disconnect. They don't know Rick DPHO who was a member of the NHL union just texted me said Most players have no idea what's going on with their own union none He said you can barely get guys to meetings. Thank you, Rick. You know what fault that is the player rep I mean the player rep is the one that's supposed to know and make sure he communicates it to everybody else It's a player's fault. No, I understand that Michael But you're it's it's like saying that it's their fault for being stupid Do you know the players rep is the most? Unforgiving job you don't get paid anything you have all you're the bad guy to ownership because you have to break the grievances Nobody wants to be a player rep, but no one but you're obviously a liaison so you can educate your teammates They don't want to do it, but they're the first to complain about it when it affects them now Here's another aspect of this as well Michael Conforto and Port St. Lucy today talked about how They cannot let this where there's Internation fighting within the union affect the upcoming CBA negotiations. Here's the Mets outfielder Michael Conforto There's a fight coming in in 2021, you know a new CBA and something that we need to be focused on something We need to be unified for You know when that time comes As far as our guys, you know, I think Like I said, we're pretty unified and our answers and our things that we wanted The goal is to stay unified. I mean, I have no doubt that the league will come together right now, it's tough with all the things that have been going on, but I think You know the players the players union is going to be very very strong and unified You know when that time comes it's gonna be interesting to see how Even in an all-star game setting the astral players are going to be Embraced or will they be embraced? I don't think they will be and they're gonna be part of union negotiations as well Now there was a really interesting It's almost a must-read story by Evan drylick in the athletic and by the way the athletic has been far in a way Above this in front of the story more than any other outlet. They've been great. They broke the story They're the ones who started it Ken Rosenthal and Evan drylick and drylick wrote yesterday that Even if there was no immunity granted The people that run major league baseball are really smart. They have really smart lawyers There is no way that man Fred could have disciplined a player and There's no way that that discipline would have held up in an arbitration case or an appeal Because none of the players were ever notified of the threat of suspension It would have been it would have been shot down within hours There's just and major league baseball would have looked bad, which is probably the reason why Manfred quickly agreed To the immunity. Let's get the story out So at least we could stain them with the fact that they cheated But if they had not granted immunity and they had in fact try to discipline the players Every single discipline case by case would have been thrown out and major league baseball would have been laughed at I don't I Would never condone this publicly But looking at everything that went down The way that is this happened wouldn't have been just better if he just said we didn't find anything No, but then that could get out to but because then you make my fires look bad But we're just but you've got a lot of guys looking bad that are assuming that something happened in 2019 They said we didn't find any buzzers that ticked a lot of people off Mm-hmm, but and I understand how uncomfortable that is and it's condoning lying But really what did you get out of this Michael? He got one of the biggest controversies in the history of the sport people are complaining. There was really no discipline, right? But you can't ask him to do a cover up what but what you ended up getting out of it is nothing Two guys got three guys got suspended and one guy got fined a billionaire got fined five million dollars and three guys lost their job three in the grand scheme of things Outside of Carlos Beltran Everybody they got fired or nameless faceless people as far as the masses are concerned and meanwhile You've got one of the biggest controversies of all time, but I think they were thinking right along with you There were 10 to 12 teams that were complaining to Major League Baseball about the Astros were doing and they couldn't find anything Did they really want to but when Mike fires became public with it in the athletic it forced their hand This was a member of the team Who said that they were cheating so they could not sweep it under the rug? He made it public and that's why there are a lot of people that don't like Mike fires in this either But they could have very easily done the same thing in 2019 Right 2019 you've got all these allegations all this video that there were buzzers They were working with stuff to the fact where people just assumed that they cheated in 2019 Well, they've essentially said they haven't so maybe they were sweeping on the rug and they and they and they so they Might be doing it right now and if we do find out Michael that they have swept it under the rug Then why not sweep the whole thing under the rug? We'd be none the wiser and you still have but people that go out where the fires made that impossible He made that impossible the 10 to 12 teams that were complaining They wanted something that a Major League Baseball did nothing they sat on their hands They didn't want this out because you're right. I good. I couldn't do it I'm just saying when you look at how it's how it's happened You'd have the allegations fires would look look bad. You'd have some owners complaining about it But at the end of the day, we'd be moving on to baseball. It'd be over. Yeah, Mike fires looks bad But now you got a whole you've got a whole like 700 players complaining every single day They would an awful job that you did Manfred's getting ripped all over the place It might have just been easier to say we did an investigation We didn't find anything because that's what I'm thinking they did in 2019 anyway Well, it's interesting because what we've told you about the handcuffs that he has on in Disciplining players, but the one thing that he has in his toolbox That he can use is taking away the title and the argument that that there's no precedent of that then set a new one Baby, and I think the thing that he fears the most is that if he takes away the 17 championship He's gonna have to take away the Red Sox one two because the Red Sox one since it's dragging out two weeks longer than anybody thought They probably found something and he's got a lot of pressure on him now to really spank the Red Sox hard Really because I mean if he does another really flaccid kind of punishment. What does that help? He's gonna look worse, and I really think he's been reading the tea leaves We were supposed to find this out last Monday. Yep. It was supposed to be early last week We were supposed to find out the Red Sox discipline is he's sitting there just kind of getting a feel of What everybody's gonna say and then determining the punishment for the Red Sox Because why is it taking so long? I don't know. Well, he said that something came up They had a re-interview people that doesn't sound great because we spoke to Dan Shaughnessy a couple weeks ago said they're gonna get a slap on the wrist It's a nothing that they did was terribly wrong This is I'll never get a Yankee fan to agree with this because they all hate the Red Sox, but wouldn't it be unfair? If the Red Sox essentially did the same thing and they get punished harder Then the Astros just because of what what's happening in the court of public opinion That wouldn't be fair what that would be like it actually be the ultimate disrespect, right? You know, how could anyone stand for that? You're just okay because someone got punished even if it's not the worst offenders The only way that you have to possibly satisfy a frothing at the at the at the at the bit players Association from 97% is to take the title away. It's an it's a no-must no It's really no brand Astros should not have the title neither should the Dodgers and neither should the Yankees That should be a vacant title and don't tell me this precedent because there was no World Series played in 1994 And when it was for the good of collective bargaining then that was great There was no precedent canceling a World Series They played in two World Wars and played World Series, but they cancel it 94 So you you made precedent then and now you could take this title away and clean up this mess a little bit Wonder if he'd be more apt to do it if it was just 2017 because if he if he bangs the Astros Michael Then he's probably gonna have to take the title away from the 18 Red Sox. You're right, but I From what I've heard of the Red Sox I Don't think that they did anything as bad as the up because I've said this before the Red Sox Looked at cameras and got the the progression of signs All right, this succession of signs means this they didn't bang any drums right there The only way that they could take advantage of getting those signs is to get a runner at second base to me That's more games than shit. The Astros are straight out cheating And I think the red they the Red Sox to the leather of the law because they use the electronics That's cheating as well But it does show you how important electronics are because the bottom line is they're looking to take electronics out of the game Where a player cannot go into The video room during a game which I think is a good idea JD Martinez doesn't want that Players want to see every swing that they took in the previous the back. Sorry. Something's got to give so if you want people to stop Cheating you've got to take electronics out of the game So much cross-purposes here. It's amazing 1-800 919 3776 a lot of stuff to talk about this is the story that Literally will not die and Joe Madden the manager the angels came out said you got to let it go Well, you weren't affected your cubs didn't get rooked out of a championship the Dodgers did The Yankees have got rooked out of a possibility of playing in the world series Other teams had to face them 19 times a year sometimes 10 times admit it made field So Joe piped out let people get it out of their system I agree with Don said earlier though You don't want to go on all year, but this is the time when players are speaking for the first time to the media Of course, they're gonna give their take judge gave us take stand today gave us take Conforto gave us take before that trout gave us take Bellinger that's people have to if they're not getting satisfaction They've got at least tell people why they're mad what what legend hasn't spoken yet That could somehow be any bigger than we've already gotten considering Everyone from Cody Bellinger to LeBron James has spoken Like baseball legend yeah, is there any is there any like active player no Or former that's just such a massive voice. Well, I said they should be suspended for life Right, you should have Hank Aaron Why mays hasn't said anything Sandy Kofax Well, that's I mean, I never want to diminish what they mean that doesn't mean anything right now So players have to play against the Astros, right? I'm just trying to think of what if you have the biggest players in the game all Saying these things that show their clear passion for the subject and nothing has been done It we're just gonna keep talking and nothing's gonna change it. It looks like Manfred is dug in it doesn't seem like he wants to vacate this title But if these players keep talking and putting the heat on maybe that's the only thing to do because the Union doesn't want the Astros penalized as a player and They won't allow it and you signed a non Abinding immunity agreement so you can't do any the thing you can do that can throw a little bit of chum to the sharks Take the title away So at least it's not ill-gotten gains because again as Eric Boland of Newsday tweeted out every team would take that deal Five million two draft picks of two years. I get rid of my GM and manager as long as we're world champions take the title away It's not that hard