 Okay, we're back real live. I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech and that's Larry Jordan. Larry, I just want to I just want to say one thing. I apologize to you. Oh, dear. Why are you apologizing? Well, I said, you know, the title of the show is catching up with video editor Larry Jordan. That was, you know, that's an embarrassing mistake. Oh, no, Jay, you don't understand. Have you ever had more than one job in your life? Yes. Of course you have. Well, video editor is one of the jobs about that. I'm also a producer, a director, a writer, an author, video editor. You know, we don't have it. This is only half an hour show Larry. I know. But see, it really is, is when I get bored, I change careers. That's really the way it works out. It's good to be back. And by the way, I wanted to welcome you. I know you're living in that very difficult environment of Hawaii, but we're based in the northeast now where it's 15 degrees outside. There's snow to the north of me. There's snow to the south of me. There's no west of me, but there's no snow here. It's all ice. So I just want you to know as you're sitting there and your casual attire and there's others of us that are huddled near fires and trying to keep warm. It's good to see. Good to see you. I'm sorry about the cold and the ice, you know. What part of the northeast are we talking about? Near Boston. I moved from LA to Boston in August of this year because I've been in LA for 30 years and I decided it was time for something different. And there's only so much sand and sunshine and beautiful people you can stand in your life before it's time to move on. And it became time move on. So here we are in the northeast, a part of the world that I like, a great deal. Fabulous. Are you originally from the west coast or east coast? Neither. I'm from the Midwest. I grew up in Wisconsin. Got my first job in Montana. Got my second job in Maryland. Got my third job in San Diego. And I've been bouncing between ghosts ever since. Goodness gracious. Well, we talked before the show about change and flexibility and coping and moving and having different places, environments, jobs, if you will. That helps you because if you can cope with something on a job change, then that teaches you to cope on the next job change, doesn't it? Well, you know, I was just thinking, you're think tech Hawaii, right? And you're focused on technology. And what's the biggest challenge that technologists have to face? It's not coming up with a new idea. And it's not even necessarily getting funding, though funding is sometimes difficult. But how do you convince people that could consider buying your product that it's worth changing what they're doing now and taking a risk on something they've never done before? If you think about it, the whole technology industry is built on finding ways to overcome resistance to change. And whether we're dealing with change in our personal life by changing our personal habits and goodness knows the pandemic has required that. Or whether it's changed in a business environment where we're trying to find new customers or decide what new business to go with or even just the change of dealing with a new product. Look at when people write reviews of software, they say it's not like what I knew before. It's different than therefore most of the time it's bad. Really, the technology industry more than any other has to deal with the challenge of confronting change and making change seem palatable. And that's not an easy task. Well, it sounds like you can divide the world up in two parts. The people who welcome change, who embrace change, who want change, like change, and those who don't. I can tell you, my experience, and I have the feeling you're in the same camp, my experience with software, if they tell me it's new, if they tell me it has new features, that's it. Right there, I gotta have it. I must have it. I'm an earlier adopter. Well, you're the guy that takes the arrows in the back as the software starts to collapse. I'm just the opposite. I'm not quite a Luddite. I was going to start one of my articles in my newsletter, which I write every week, with the phrase, I'm not a Luddite, but I figured I should look up what a Luddite is. And around the turn of the century, from the 1800s to 1900s, Luddites were workers, individuals who purposely destroyed equipment because they didn't want the equipment in their lives. They wanted to continue working the way they were. So a Luddite is actually a destructive force, and I hope I'm not that. But someone who thinks like a Luddite is somebody that resists change, and I think change needs to be resisted. And I think change should not be universally accepted. I'll give you some examples. Photoshop now has started to work in what they call Adobe Sensei, which is their brand name for artificial intelligence. They're applying artificial intelligence to the manipulation of photos, which sounds really cool, except when we start to be able to put one person's head on another person's body or where we are removing something which is material to that particular photograph. Now in advertising, this is done all the time because you're pitching a product and you want the product to look good. But where's the line between being able to make it look like somebody in Premiere, we can do what's called a flow transition where it morphs from one shot to the other so seamlessly that you don't even realize that that it was made. Isn't it useful to know that that person didn't actually say what they said they said because of very skillful editing? Where's the boundary between doing something because we can and doing something because we should? And this ethical boundary is really a challenge because a technologist will say, and Adobe has, because I've challenged them. When I was chatting with them like you're chatting with me, I had the VP in charge of answering stupid questions on the show that I did called Digital Production Buzz. And I said, so what does Adobe feel is our ethics here? They said, oh, that's not our job. Our job is to create the features and let the end user determine the ethics. And of course, from a corporate point of view, that's exactly the right answer. You know, it's not my fault, you know, we just make it. We just make the gun. It's your job. I forgot where it's going to get pointed. But I contend that technology needs to think about the ethics of what they're doing, as well as the whether we can code the coding or not. And we're seeing this, we're seeing this everywhere with the, what was it Facebook was just voted the worst company in the world has great technology, but there's some ethical fallout here. When should you manipulate an image and make it look like it hasn't been changed? Well, Adobe was feeling some guilt here. And in the latest version of Photoshop, they're not able to flag an image and indicate whether it's been manipulated. Oh, how interesting. This flagging is hidden. It's buried in the file. You can't see it if you're an end user looking at it, but you can look at the contents of the digital file and see if it's manipulated. But, you know, at what role does technology have in, in ethics. And this is a question that we're not spending a whole lot of time talking about we're like you. Oh, it's the latest thing it's got blinking lights and the lights are now green instead of blue I've got to buy it today. But should you buy it. And is there an ethical value behind it and, and you know, I'm convinced that a lot of the problems we're dealing with this because of technologists can say I can do this therefore I will not I can do this and therefore I should do this. They don't ask the should question just ask the can question. And there's a world of hurt right now because of that. You're referring this kind of thing and you said you were going to write an article about it. Have you read you will you follow it going going forward. The answer is yes but not to the degree that that I probably should my role the role that I said that I see I do is I help people improve their technical skills. I help people get jobs keep their jobs improve their skills keep clients happy. I'm an art teacher. So I view my role as for instance J helping you learn a new piece of software, because you've been struggling with it then you've got a deadline coming up and you need somebody to answer your question. And the people that are on tech support either aren't available or they don't understand the question or they aren't coming at it from the point of view of somewhere that was lives with deadlines and is a professional. He doesn't know how to spell technical support. Well, some do but if you think about it, technical support for any company I don't care what it is, can only support their product. You wouldn't ask Microsoft to support an Apple product Microsoft would quite rightly say that's not our product we don't know it. Three times in a day, JD you have multiple applications open at the same time and you got to take information out of Excel and move it into a database not of a database and post it to the web and come out of the web and I mean you're working in a multi vendor environment and there's nobody that provides multi vendor support because they can't afford the liability. Can you imagine Apple telling somebody how Microsoft works. Because they can't they if they were wrong they'd get sued and and so so tech support by its very nature is a silo. I can get an Apple answer from Apple I get a Microsoft answer for Microsoft but I can't get an answer from anybody about how to move between Apple and Microsoft. So this is where people like me who foolishly plunge into this this this gap. I want to provide answers to people that are working in a multi vendor multi application environment. How do you get products from point A to point B. What happens if it doesn't work. Who do you need to talk to you've got a hard disk from one company you've got a computer from another company got software from a third company you've got drivers from the fourth company. How do you fix it if it doesn't work. There's not a lot of people that do this. There's not a lot of people that are that stupid and number two there's not a lot of people that have the background to be able to understand how all these different apps work together not from a programming point of view, but from an operating point of view. And that's where I think I can be helpful is is is to help people improve their skills of the piece of software but also answer questions as you're moving between pieces of software. So I know you have a newsletter that goes out about editing everything is that fair to say in the world. But how else I mean, do you have a Q&A platform of some kind. You have videos, audios what have you. The heart of everything that I do is my website, which is Larry Jordan dot com. By the way, you can congratulate me. I will. I'm waiting. Congratulations Larry. I was hoping you had mentioned I didn't think you were going to think of I just finished writing my 2500 2500 tutorials. 2500 tutorials right. Yeah, are are posted to my website. So if you go to Larry Jordan dot com click on the free resources button, and you'll see, I mean 2500 I've been doing it for 20 years. It's a lot of writing anyway. So I've got that's that's the core than every Monday at six o'clock I publish in the morning I publish a newsletter which has my latest tutorials for that week. My newsletter has new stories which are relevant to media creators and tutorials for people that are running Apple Adobe and I'm expanding into DaVinci Resolve software, not just final cut and premiere but media encoder and compressor and motion and applications which revolve around as well as product reviews of hardware and software that's relevant to people that are creating programs stories with media. So some of these programs you're identifying it takes a PhD to understand them. My question to you Larry is how in the world, can you keep up with that. How can you be ahead of the game on the all those really complex program programs. A good friend of mine, Debbie price has a good example of this. She says, Larry you need to think like a swan. I'm fat and white. No, she says you're sitting gracefully on the lake, and you're gliding from point to point, and you are looking stately and informed and serious. While underneath the water your feet are going like this like this like this as fast as you can keep up with what's going on. So I'm a swan. They look graceful on the surface but underneath we're doing a lot of homework and trying to stay out. Well, you know, since we spoke last which is five six years ago here on think tech. The world has so changed me right now think tech. You know, I made a list. It has like 70 software packages that we use for one thing or another and I don't know if we could operate without all all of them actually. And just to make it even more frightening it's going to get worse. Yes. And the reason I think is, is that we're seeing that the omnibus application which does everything in the kitchen set. And I think of it as Microsoft Office or Apple works back when Apple works was this thing where we had word processing and spreadsheets and database and a little bit of drawing, all wrapped up in an email communication, all wrap up into a single package. And what we're seeing is the world doesn't want omnibus packages, they want to be able to customize their environment to use the tool that they want, which is a perfectly okay thing to do but it means now that rather dealing with a single application and stuff, we're doing dealing with a lot of applications which each of which does a single thing, which adds to the complexity of our life, because now we've got to get data from point A to point B and do the interchange formats work and what part of the data transfers and what part doesn't I was experimenting with this just recently sending projects from Final Cut Da Vinci Resolve and from Premiere to Da Vinci Resolve and Premiere to Final Cut and stuff gets lost along the way that some stuff travels perfectly like media, other stuff like effects doesn't travel at all. So now we've got to think of not only how do we get the material from one application or another, but what gets lost and at what point can I afford to lose that early in the editing process for instance, and what part can't I afford to lose it so now we're looking at interchange in terms of time as well as interchange in terms of application. See this is this is why people send me questions. Nobody can figure it out. It's just getting more and more complex and the technologist would say well we're going to make your life simpler, and they are for that application, but they aren't and the overall gestalt of all the stuff we're working with. Now the other thing I've noticed in the past five years, six years since we spoke together is that a lot of the software that you want is not made in the US of a is made somewhere else. And it's very good. I mean we among those application. We have an application that does playlists, which we got from Istanbul Larry Istanbul. We have an HTML generator which we got from Kiev. So I've learned not to have, you know, barriers, mental barriers and dealing with software. Now some of them could be Trojan horses I don't know, but they all work really well. They're inexpensive they're well thought out there in English. And so, you know, I have sense that kind of global coming together about software there's no reason why some young person in Kiev can't write software that you will love. And that includes communication software includes complex software the PhD kind. You know, I feel that the world is coming together do you agree. I sure wish the world was coming together. I have a problem agreeing with that, but I do agree with the universality of software development. And if you think about it, the number one job right now is somebody that can write software. They're an extremely high demand, especially anybody that's able to deal with cloud and networking kinds of stuff, those they can write their own ticket. Somebody that can write software can do mobile apps could do desktop apps can do server apps. And what was an Apple just last week paid some of their engineers $180,000 bonus just to keep them with Apple because they're in such high demand elsewhere. Clearly, I immediately dusted off my Python for dummies book and started learning how to program again. And I can now recognize a variable if I need to, but if you think about the jobs which are extremely well paid and extremely well respected. We have software engineers and sports athletes, those are the two and both learning about the same amount of money. What about consumers you know, you talk about tutorials talk about the website you talk about teaching people I mean and you are a master teacher I remember that from the time I first listened to your, your classes if you will on Linda.com which I, you know, I was it was the mainstay for me. That's how I learned video, you know, editing production, and no kidding, you're the man. But you know what about the consumer group, you know who gets into this sort of thing, because we live in a time when video graphics and communication by video graphics and data for that matter is like all consuming. It makes our society run. It makes so many said dependent on it, and the query whether kids coming out of school are getting into these programs or whether they're leaving it to a smaller group of experts to do that. Oh, no. We. You couldn't have asked a better question. We're living right now in an age of democratization of video. What that means is everybody can have access to the tools because some of the most powerful tools are free. All you need is a computer that's powerful enough to run it and any computer shipped in the last four years is powerful enough to run mind bendingly sophisticated software that has an interface on it that virtually anybody can learn, whether it's iMovie at the low end or DaVinci Resolve at the high end, there's just a wealth of visual tools. But there isn't, however, is a wealth of information on how to use those tools, not from a training point of view, but from a storytelling point of view. And this caused me a year ago to write a book. It's my 10th. It's called the techniques of visual persuasion. Imagine I'm holding the cover up right here. It's published by new writers as part of their series techniques of visual persuasion. And I was really, really delighted with the response to this because I wrote the book, not for people who are media creators, but for people who need to use media to communicate with their audience. Think of it as an entrepreneur trying to pitch a new idea to an investor, CEO of a company trying to reach out to customers. A person doing a presentation for a business group, people that don't think of themselves as being media creators. And yet, inevitably, what we see is they first try to write a white paper and put it on a PowerPoint slide and wonder why the audience has a heart attack and falls off their chair. And the other is, is there, they're working to communicate in ways that audiences today aren't listening. We don't communicate by reading books or white papers, we communicate with memes and pictures. Well, if the world is communicating with memes and with pictures, wouldn't it be useful to know what those, how those pictures are created, what those pictures mean, what the sub context is that we emotionally identify with but we don't deconstruct the picture. We just say, hey, this makes me feel good, or hey, this makes me feel sad, or, hey, I don't like this at all, as an emotional reaction to a picture in ways that you look at the say it's a, I've got a picture of you, that should make me feel happy and cheerful. But depending upon the angle of the camera and the way that it's lit, I could have a picture of you and feel depressed, which is hard to believe. So I'm just using those general. My wife says that all the time. Yeah. So techniques of visual persuasion is unique, and that it's a survey, it looks at, it looks at interpreting the meaning of images, it looks at how to use Photoshop, how to use video, how to shoot video how to shoot still pictures, how to record and edit audio how to create motion I covered seven different applications inside a 400 page book, not because you're going to be a video professional, but because you have to understand how pictures work both still and moving in today's environment if you're going to be able to survive in business or communication or whatever industry you're in, nobody writes, nobody writes they all send pictures or emoji. In order to have your business survive, you need to know how this stuff works. So I wrote it for the general business office and I've been blown away by the response people have really loved the book. And so much so that the publishers asked me to start to think about the second one. So that's great grateful. Yeah, you know that's really part of the world in which we live. It may not be the kind of ethical, you know, dilemma that you spoke about earlier, but certainly there's psychology in their psychology for that matter. And we talked in an earlier show today about to stay with psychology. I got to be licensed there. We have a license for both but we talked in an earlier show today about an accountant to classify himself as a psychiatric accountant, meaning that he, he must appreciate, you know, his client to do the job correctly. And then we had a discussion with a guy who manages a grocery store in the time of COVID and we concluded that he was a psychiatric grocery manager, because he must, he must appreciate his clientele. And certainly in this 400 pages of book, you must be talking about psychology. Am I right. I'm talking about empathy. I'm talking about identifying with what your audience is going through. I'm not going to say psychology necessarily. But I do know that the way that our, our eyes and our minds respond to pictures is, is a known quantity, but it's not a published known quantity. And, for instance, when you are, look at the shop, just look at your shot of how you look on camera right now. And when I see you, why is your head placed where it is in the frame. Why is your head frame from left to right the way that it is. And the answer is because and why is the camera shooting you at eye level and not shooting down at you or shooting up at you. And there is, because emotions live in our face, because you want your eyes one third of the way down from the top of the picture to make it feel good. You never crop somebody in a body joint like the middle of their neck. You never put somebody off so that we're looking down at them which diminishes them and says Jay is in trouble. We never shoot up at them. Well, we do, but not in this case. We don't shoot up at them because that makes them heroic. What is in your camera is at eye level is that you want to be perceived to be the peer of everybody that's looking at you, ultra superior to not diminished from, but we are the same. Now, what people don't realize is you've got a $564 million trust fund behind you that you are giving to friends and relatives, but by being at eye level, all of that just disappears. And it says that I am just like you. We're together. And that is not unintentional. It's not unintentional in newscasts with the newscasters of eye level. It's not unintentional with politicians who are at eye level. Any CEO that wants to communicate communicates at eye level, even though they may have a stock buyout package which beggars imagination. We're together at eye level because of the way our brain perceives. If you and I are speaking eye to eye, then we're equals. And that's the feeling that you want your audience to have. Wouldn't it be cool to know these secrets as you're starting to put together a campaign to promote a product or to promote an idea or to ask for funding. And that's the idea behind this book is to help people communicate better with pictures when their real full time job doesn't involve communicating with pictures at all. It's like a shortcut to learning faster. Well, I must have the book. Where do I get the book. The book is available from Amazon and from Pearson and Peach bit. It's called techniques of visual persuasion. Again, this is a book right there. It's a beautiful cover. I see a woman on the cover and you can get it at Amazon and just look for my name and it'll find it. Well, you know, you're talking about stuff we think about all the time we don't have the level of sophistication you were just describing but those are the issues that we wrestle with exactly that. At the end of the day we want to present a certain image. We want people to listen to us and watch us and understand and learn from us. It's all there what you're talking about. And I think, you know, anybody who's getting into the business of, you know, transmitting broadcasting video or for that matter, photography and so many ways you can do it these days. We can make a list of all the programs by which you could generate content like this. We'd be here for hours. And not only that, but you use like I do. I use the word broadcast meaning television stations because that's my background. So I grew up, but you're not on a television station right now. And yet you have an audience. You have a recognized brand. You have professional quality engineers and professional quality pictures. You're dealing with exactly the same issues that a broadcaster is. But you're not going out over the airwaves. And in fact, it could be argued that the audience that you are trying to reach is far greater and far broader than any television station. And 10 years ago, could we have imagined that this is possible now is punch in a computer and watch a television show, no more than we could imagine doing a phone call and look at somebody's face while we're talking to them. And it was, it was the world of the professions of $100,000 budgets just to be able to deliver a single picture to an audience. And now you or I can punch a button, and we can speak to people around the world and they can dial in for free. And it doesn't cost anything, relatively speaking. Now, so where is it going. I mean, I hope to speak to you within long before the expiration of another five years. Okay. Where is it going Larry? I mean, give me a handle on the trajectory here. We know we've made extraordinary changes and improvements. But where is it going now? William, William Goldman, who is a very famous screenwriter, has I think the most accurate quote in answer to that question. When asked to describe what it takes to make a hit movie, Goldman said nobody knows anything. And the more you think you're an expert, the less you know. Experts know a subject in depth, but none of us have a clue what's happening in the future. And if you look at our track records, we're always wrong. Where's it going? I think it's going into greater communication, where we're going to be working together, regardless of where we are, whether we're buying software from companies around the world or working with people around the world. Communication is clearly improving. I think it's continuing to grow more and more tribal. I think we have to worry about different groups. I think that's that's a big issue, because if you're not in my group, therefore you're against my group. It's going to take a while to break that one down. We got to be part of a bigger whole than we are right now. I think the technology is going to become easier to use and yet under the hood, it's going to become more and more complex and probably likely more and more invasive. So questions of privacy become important. Communication, video is at the core of how all of this stuff works. One person said, the way the user interface works is how people think the software works. People define the software based upon user interface. Now point of fact, the user interface is just the face of software. It has nothing to do with all the back end processes and all the stuff that's going on under the hood, but nobody understands that stuff under the hood. We view a piece of software based upon our interaction with it. I think user interfaces are going to become increasingly important. So I think greater diversification, greater communication, greater isolation and greater ethical dilemmas. That's where I think it's going. Okay, let me ask you, let me spring out of what you said and ask you something that's really, that's really important now. And that is, we know a lot of people live in silos and live in, you know, bubbles. They live in their own community. They don't want to talk to any other community and so forth. At the same time, we have this ubiquitous possibility of talking to the world on video without putting that $100,000 camera, you know, and system, you know, into play and then any, any, any person can actually have a say. Now, in some ways, it's not good for humanity to have everyone have a say all the time. It's so confusing. It's too much noise. But my question to you is, given these directions and given the problems of having silos all around and bubbles all around, do you think that I can reach out from my bubble to the next guy's bubble, the adversary bubble with this technology with, you know, this graphics video communication and actually break the bubbles down. This is a really big question because right now, there doesn't seem to be a way to do that. I think we have to. I don't think it's a question of whether we can or not. I think we have to, we have to be able to talk across bubbles. And I don't think all bubbles are necessarily negative bubbles are any group of people that have a common interest whether it's a love of model railroads or love of surfing. I mean that's that each of those is a bubble. It's when the bubbles become destructive that it's a bigger issue. And so the key is thrust figure out a way to reach across bubbles to improve communication. And if you think about it, video is the best way to do that. Getting using pictures and using images and using video, which is why I'm so optimistic about the group of people that I talked to because I talked to full time and part time video editors people that tell stories with pictures. And it's people that tell stories with pictures are going to be able to reach across all these different bubbles and hopefully start to bring each other together. And the other thing about that, we're running out of time, but I'm loaded with questions for you Larry as before. You know, so so we now have the ability to make a movie. Okay, a short movie, a long movie, a movie that's, you know, sympatico with the audience or maybe not. And to send a message or sort of tell a story. And using that we can. We can, we can make movies we can put movies on this remarkable video platform forget the theaters for now. We can, we can make art. And that art is, is, is got to change the world. I can tell my story I can make a political statement or a statistic statement, a philosophical statement, a technological statement. Okay, is this is this going to happen too. It's like, we live in a world of film festival. That's what we live in. Now, I can express myself, any person can express himself and be heroically celebrity overnight. How is that going to change things. A little bit of slightly differently. Every good story touches you emotionally. It makes you feel good and makes you feel sad and makes you want to learn more. But when we're doing our job right. We're not just sharing information, we're sharing emotions with you. We're sharing how we feel or how we want you to feel, or we're sharing a sense of overcoming adversity, but the core of every story that really resonates with an audience is it's emotional core, not the characters not the block with the way these people make you feel. So the stories that we want to tell need to be emotional stories, which means that we need to have empathy, we need to be able to understand who our audience is we need to understand what what they're going through we need to figure out the best way that we can share an emotion with them to help them feel better stronger, braver, whatever the emotion is that we want to reach. If you put that on news, if you put that on news, you take these skills of being able to make people feel a certain way, good, bad or otherwise, and you put it on news. Is that a good thing. You know, you can take this very same skills, the very same techniques, and put it as an overlay on trying to tell people what's going on in the world and affecting their thinking, you know, public opinion. Isn't that dangerous. We're doing it for 50 years. How many times have you how many times have you watched the newscaster and say I really like him, or her. I don't like that newscaster, you're making a decision on whether you're watching a particular channel, not based upon their development not presentation to news per se, but on the perceived character of the person presenting the news. So you're deciding this person's my friend, think of Walter Cronkite just as a name that you're familiar with, given how old both of us are. And the fact that he was considered the most trusted name in most trusted man in America. Now, yes, he had a team of people that was writing and gathering the news, but the face of this was the news presenter. Every television station knows that is that people are watching the show based upon their perception of the quality of the character the news person. Look at a reporter, why do reporters go on location. Most of the times they don't need to their own location long after the news has occurred, but they want to be seen to be present. They also want to be hands on look at how often they're doing something stupid like, yes, I will eat this disgusting thing or I'm going to stand out in the middle of a hurricane and show what it looks like to get blown around and all well. Do they have to do that. No, but they're trying to show that they are just like all the rest of us. The news has been wrapping emotion around the news story since the beginning of time. Look at lost kid found celebration occurs. This is a five minute package on television and it's a two paragraph story in a newspaper because TV can make milk it for emotion in a way that newspaper can't for that story they'll use something else. Newspapers deal with different stories that trigger emotional response motion. All of us respond to emotion. It's just that's why we're built. This is a question of how we leverage that. What's an ethical use of emotional manipulation and what isn't. That's a conversation you and I can have another time. Yes, I agree and it strikes me from your your thought that you know there's an intersection between what you have been doing and studying and teaching and making tutorials on and public opinion. The way you know 330 million Americans think it's a sort of functioned on how well the media, including the people you are teaching in and helping, you know, handle it. And so it's bigger than that it's worldwide every country is looking to manipulate its message and manipulation can be good or bad. I look at every corporation wants to manipulate its message in terms of having your products perceived positively. That's the way you manipulate your image. You want people to see you as warm and avuncular and informed and concerned and caring and I'm sure all of those are true. It's also an activity that you participate in because you want to reinforce that message in terms of the kind of person that you are on the way that you're perceived each of us does that we all want to be like we all want to have friends. Nobody wants to be cast to the curb and ignored that's the worst that could happen. So what do we have to do to get the approval of the crowd starts at the individual and just keeps moving up. We have really ranged far and wide. Well, it's my fault. I was I was putting my pontificating hat on. I'm sorry about that. Okay, I have one last question just to return to earth for a minute. And that is, what's your what's your favorite video editing and production software right now. Oh, this is the world's worst question. I know I asked it intentionally. I asked you the same question before to and you had a lot of trouble with it. Every piece of video editing software that's out there does professional great results. If I were working with avid or DaVinci or Apple or Adobe and I was cutting media together you'd be unable to tell the difference between which application cut which piece of media is impossible. So what you're really doing is you're not picking something based upon the quality output you're picking something based upon its interface, which piece of editing software do you feel most comfortable with which piece of editing software works with the tools that you want to work with. And this is very much like asking what's your favorite cologne or what's your favorite car. My favorite car is a school bus if I'm carrying 30 kids from point A to point B. It's a sports car if I want to get there in a hurry and it's a dump truck if I want to carry stuff to the trash my favorite car changes based upon the task I'm doing. Same thing with software. I know all these different tools because I can pick the tool that helps me get the job done on time on budget with the quality that I need, because software does different things. I would not use Microsoft Word to total up a spreadsheet, but I would use Excel to total a spreadsheet but not to write a novel. There's the same is true for video editing software. There's different interfaces to do different tasks. So the worst thing you can do is to say what's the best of something. The best of something is unanswerable. What's the best car? What's the best food? What's the best place to live? It all depends upon what you want to do. Once you tell me what you want to do, I can help you find tools that will enable you to do it. But to say there's one thing that's the best, it's always contextual based upon who you are, what you want to do and what you want to accomplish. Yeah, and what's coming down the pike, because the landscape changes. Yes, but you can't make buying decisions based upon what you think might happen. What is Apple going to release later this year? Well, there's lots of rumors, but until Apple releases that I can't buy it, until Apple releases that I don't know what it's doing, all I'm doing is listening to rumors and I can start a rumor. Do you realize the next Apple computer is going to be free? Can you imagine? Start that rumor going until Apple ships it, nobody knows that I'm wrong, so therefore the next Apple computer is going to be free. I think kind of cool when you think about it. You heard it here on Think Tech. I'm still, I'm still not sorry I asked you that question by the way. No, and everybody does. I get that probably two or three times a day. What's the best fill in the blank? And the answer is there is no best. Best can only be answered in the context of what you know, what you want to do, how fast you want to work. It's always contextual. You told me those questions. Do you answer those questions? I can give you the tools that you need to need, but to say Premiere's the best or Final Cut's the best or Avid's the best or DaVinci Resolve is the best or iMovie is the best is unanswerable because the best of what to do what? You drive yourself nuts, you develop an ulcer because you're spending all your time searching for perfection when what you should be doing is getting the job done. Larry, so nice to talk to you. Larry Jordan, LarryJordan.com. I will go and I will get that book that is right in our channel and I will, I'll find you. You can run Larry, but you can't hide. Thank you so much for coming on our show. My pleasure. Thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon. Take care.