 Our subject now is Daphna Krim, daughter of Matilda and Arthur Krim, who was a child during the Johnson administration. Tell us a little bit about what you remember about the president and your parents' relationship with him during the time. Anything that comes to your mind? Well, I have very fond memories. I think that as important a person as he was, he was always able to have the personal rapport with us and with other of his friends. But I think he was particularly, as I could observe, was particularly fond of my parents and really enjoyed their company and they really enjoyed his company. I remember when I started to come down here on the weekends, we used to get invited quite often on the weekends and on one occasion my parents brought me. And I just remember that being at the ranch, at the LBJ Ranch, just really felt like being at home in many ways. President Johnson and Mrs. Johnson were so sweet and very inviting and hospitable. And at the same time, I remember that there would be moments where you realized that you were basically in the White House. There was the Secret Service and the staff and it was very awesome in many ways. And it just really felt like being a part of history. So there were the two sides to it. He really was a presence. I always had that sense of his immense presence. He was also very jolly many times. He used to love to tell jokes. He used to tell some of the local types of jokes, the real southern kinds of jokes that we were not familiar with coming from New York. And so it was very colorful and it was very funny. Some of them were in the context of politics and some of them were just in the context of he would use jokes to illustrate some of his points or some of his thoughts. And he really enjoyed having a lot of his friends from this area to come over. He enjoyed having large groups at the dinner table. I remember small things such as watching his place setting. His place setting always had a huge selection of hot peppers and sauces and ketchup and the honey and just everything had to be just right. And he could tell in an instant if something was missing and he would want to know where it was. And I would watch him and frequently he didn't use any of what was there. But he wanted to have it all there and it had to be just so. And he wanted his jelly and the biscuit and the butter and he was just a riot sometimes. And sometimes it would come up that Mrs. Johnson had determined that he needed to cut back on how much he was eating because he had this heart history of heart trouble in his family. And so she was often putting him on a diet and whether it was his blood sugar or just the amount of food or whatever. And often after dinner there would be a debate as to whether or not he was going to get dessert. And it always struck me as so funny that the president of the United States would have to negotiate with his wife or the housekeeper as to whether or not he was going to get dessert. And sometimes he would get it, especially if he was especially nice and just really negotiated well. And sometimes he wouldn't. And he had that look on his face like, well, after she goes upstairs I'm going in the kitchen and I'm getting my dessert. And he would often do that. He would go in there and he would open every cabinet and look for the cookie jar. And the cookie jar usually got hidden. And so it was his job to try to find it. And he would usually find it. And sometimes the housekeeper was in on it and she would sort of give him a hint. And sometimes he didn't get one, but he eventually got his dessert. And it was very funny that way. And that was sort of one of my memories. As a child experiencing that, were you aware that there was some history being made around you at the time? Definitely. Being in high school at the time, it was a very strange situation for me. I went to a school that was a very progressive school in New York. It was one of the ethical culture schools. And a lot of sort of liberal, progressive families associated with it. A lot of the teachers were liberal, progressive. In that sense, I mean it was sort of a perfect setting academically. But it was a very strange tension for me because I knew what I thought of him. And I knew what I thought of him personally. And I admired him very much. And at the same time, everything that I was learning and experiencing in my day to day life was in conflict. Because most of the teachers and most of the kids in my school were very much against the war. Very anti-Vietnam war. And therefore there was a lot of criticism all around me of his presidency and of him. And so it was really a difficult situation that sort of split loyalties. I mean I knew that intellectually and in terms of obviously seeing what was happening and the escalation and the continuing deaths. And I agreed in a sense with the anti-war movement, especially the older I got. And I could really associate and identify with that. At the same time I knew that the personal hatred or the personal words that were being used against him, particularly against him personally, I felt very protective and very sort of, I really resented that. And so I had more than one, I wouldn't call it a confrontation but more than one occasion to really argue with friends and students and even with a couple of teachers over the issue. And so because I had a very different perspective, many times judgments are made of a person because of their policies and I knew that that wasn't the person that I knew, the person that was being described to me. And also in the news, even in the media, there was a lot of what I thought was ugliness in the media and I thought it was very unfair and unjustified. And I thought even at the time that there were so many things that he had accomplished that were being overshadowed by this Vietnam tragedy really for his presidency and of course for the country. But I felt that he had been mired in a situation that was not of his making. And even as a teenager I thought it was pretty clear to me that just from the coverage in the media that his advisors were advising him, that this was not his situation, he was being advised. He felt that the military commanders and the Secretary of Defense really knew what he should do and I felt that he had been overtaken by all that. Daphnaud, on another subject, your father was a significant figure in the history of the times, not just because of his relationship with President Johnson and his administration, but his association with a particular political party and with his relationship with other major figures and as a giant in the motion picture world. Were you aware of him, of his importance as you were growing up? Yes, I was. I certainly knew that it was very unusual and I knew that he was admired by many people, that he was considered a real leader in his business and in the political scene. I remember something that was very interesting, ever since I was very small. It would be fairly common for someone who had come to our home for an event to say, Daphnaud, with the business that your dad is in, do you want to be an actress? I remember that in the beginning in particular I almost never got to answer that question because if he was standing right there he would invariably interrupt and say, oh, she has much more important things in her future than to be an actress. Not that I would have wanted to be one because I really never thought about that, but it became very clear to me that while he enjoyed the business tremendously and while it was something that he took pride in, that he did not think that that was a life that he would wish on his children or his family members. He just felt that there was a certain superficiality to it. It was not a life that really consisted of enough of a contribution to society. I mean, to him that was very important to contribute to society and I think that one of the reasons that he felt that his career in that business really was a contribution is because the critical element to him was that he made films that were important, films that said something, films that did have a message. That was basically his strength, that was the uniqueness of the company, of his companies and acting per se or being in the business per se was not anything that he really valued in general. So if there had ever been any doubt in my mind about whether or not he wanted that career for me, it was dispelled pretty early on, but no, I always knew that he was a very important person in many, many levels, but he didn't act that way. I think one of the amazing things about him, he never acted that way. It wasn't as though he made you feel he never acted self-important, I don't think. I don't know anyone who thinks that he did. He was just a very modest and very easy person to talk to. I found him very easy to talk to. I've talked to a lot of people over the years who have said that he was very intimidating because he was so brilliant. I mean, you almost felt as though there was really nothing you could say that he couldn't say better or anything you could tell him that he didn't already know. So that's very intimidating, but I never felt intimidated by him. And he was always very, very, you know, as a family person. He was always very, very close, I think, to family. He always felt that family was really important. And I know when I used to call him in the office as a child, it didn't surprise me that he always took my calls. I mean, you know, he was my dad, so of course he's going to take my calls. And years later, when I was, I think, in college at that point, I called him. I don't know how this came up, but his secretary said to me, she said, you know, you're almost the only person whose calls, you know, whose calls he takes. I mean, he takes your calls no matter what he's doing, no matter how many people he has in his office or whatever. So in that sense, I certainly didn't get the feeling that he was unapproachable or anything of that kind. It was just the opposite. Arthur Crimm was a very important man in the life of the OBJ Library, and this reflection on him will be a significant addition to our collections. So, thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.