 Hi everybody, I'm Ed Baker and it's my pleasure today to welcome you to ARC or the Addiction Recovery Channel. ARC is a channel that is devoted to people with substance use disorder or really anybody who cares about a person with substance use disorder. We're here to help you to understand what brain addiction is, to help raise consciousness. To be a part of this ground swell of compassion that we see in our communities today for people suffering from this disease. It's my pleasure today to introduce our guest. Our guest today is Cliff Baumann. Thank you Eddie, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you Cliff, it's a pleasure to have you here. It's estimated today that there are approximately 23 million people in recovery from addiction. What's interesting is that this has been a relatively silent population up until recently. More recently people in recovery are speaking out and that's the purpose of Cliff's visit with us today. And I guess I would like to just start right there. I'd like to know Cliff what is it that's driving you, that's motivating you to come and speak in a public forum about something as personal as recovery. Absolutely Eddie, thanks for asking that question. It's a great starting point. For about a year and a half into recovery I was kind of living in the shadows of recovery, working my program, trying to stay clean and doing a lot of things for myself and not necessarily reaching out to others as much as I would have liked to. And now I'm seeing all of this news on TV, the opioid epidemic. And I'm hearing these incredibly hurtful stories of folks who pass away as a result of using opiates and who have lifetime struggles with these addictions. And it's not often that I see represented in the news around TV a positive story of recovery. People who have been able to find a way to overcome addiction and move on and be able to start their lives. So I want people to know that that's possible. Thank you, thank you. We are right with you on that. I'd like to thank you for your courage. I'd like to recognize your courage and your concern. It's not an easy task to come and speak about, again, matters that are so personal. So let's begin there. Let's take a look at your journey as a young man. And what was it like at the time when you first began to realize that substance use was a serious problem for you? That's a great question. So it took many years for me to reach what I like to call a breaking point or a rock bottom. And basically for me that looked like desperation. I was desperate to overcome what I was dealing with, the depression, anxiety, and move on with my life and be able to do something positive. And so I had struggled with addiction since I was around 13 or 14. And as a lot of people say it started with smoking pot and alcohol and those kinds of things. And then eventually progressed throughout high school and then also into college. And I had a few run-ins with the law in high school. Nothing too serious. But most of all I realized the problem was inside me. So I was in college and it was junior year. And I was getting good grades. I had a difficult course of study. And at the same time I was seriously struggling with my addictive personality, especially with regard to drugs. I started using harder drugs and led me into a period of depression, very severe depression and anxiety. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror anymore and see who I thought I was supposed to be. It's a poignant beginning to your story. Would you say that, I want to diverge for a second because you made an interesting point that you started with one drug that there's a lot of publicity now called a recreational drug. And then you went on to other more serious or more harmful types of behaviors. What was that like? Was that a gradual progression? Were you aware? Did you have consciousness of the fact that you were getting worse, that your symptoms, your addiction was gaining power in your life? Or was it something that was subtle? Very good question. Before now I haven't really thought about whether that was a subtle transition or something that just hit me abruptly. And I was like, okay, this is getting to be too much. Now that I think of it, I think it was more of a subtle transition because throughout college I started using ecstasy, cocaine, and eventually, and it was over a period of a couple of years, I think from freshman year in college to junior year, where I would have these bouts of maybe using on the weekend and then stopping for two or three weeks, maybe I had a test to study for or something, and then I'd go right back to it. And eventually I started, when I had these bouts they became longer and they were much less spaced out than they were before. And so I was really getting into some deep stuff and it's almost like there was kind of a block. I couldn't really see that what I was turning into. I think my initial signal was my friend's reactions and my reactions to other people. And I felt like I wasn't liked as much and I got really self-conscious about that. Sure, that makes a lot of sense. I think one of the tricks that addiction plays on people with addiction is we all have internal processes that defend us from feeling emotions that are uncomfortable, even if they're associated with the truth about us. So sometimes we'll avoid the truth about us. In this case, there's an addiction developing. So as we avoid it, the addiction has free reign to in fact get worse. It was concerned friends that brought to your attention that, hey, you're not the cliff that we know. What's up with you? Is that kind of what began to happen? Yeah, essentially that's what happened. It's not to say that the friends that I had were overly concerned or it was very obvious to them that I was changing. I feel like it was a little more obvious to myself in that hanging out with these friends, I didn't get the same reactions as I used to. I didn't feel like I was included as much in parties or events. So I would just end up going home and using substances by myself. And that's where I began to find pleasure and I think that's where the isolation began. Sure, one of the hallmarks of addiction is isolation. And it's interesting because I think what you're saying is, what I'm hearing you say is that the reason their responses resonated with you was largely because you were asking yourself the same questions. Why don't I look like me in the mirror? What is going on here? What is up? How did you eventually, that's the question you have to answer before you get motivated to move into recovery. How did you answer that question? Did you need help to answer that? How did you answer that question? It was maybe the biggest question of my life and I definitely needed help. I could not see that I needed help. I was absolutely desperate. I think the most desperate I felt in my life. I had plenty of support from family. They know what I've gone through for a long time. But they also knew that I wasn't actively seeking any help for a long time. And so they kind of let me do my own thing. So I had to figure this out by myself over years that something was up. And eventually, junior year of college, I had a breakdown over winter break. It was a very dark period of my life and I got very desperate. I ended up going to see a therapist and I told her what was going on. And I just kind of let it all out. I just told the truth, admitted that I was really having a hard time trying to balance school and then my addicted life, which was a huge part of my life at that time too. So I was told that I was essentially leading a double life. And something about that phrase double life that clicked with me. And I saw that I'm expending more energy than I need to. I have these motivations with academics but at the same time I'm sort of counteracting them with my substance use and I didn't feel like I was going anywhere. So it was a therapist. First of all, it was what you called desperation. Or we could call it motivation. It got you to break through. A lot of people like to say it's denial. But it doesn't really sound like denial. It sounds like reluctance or shame or the inability or not knowing how to reach out for help. I don't think it's people really denying that there's something going on with them. They just don't know what to do. So you broke through that and you actually became motivated enough to reach out to a therapist. She helped you? Yes. She helped me by introducing me to... I was a junior at the University of Vermont. And she opened up the avenue for me to speak with the director of the campus recovery program at UVM. And I had no idea that existed. I didn't know that it could help me. That was the last thing I thought that getting into this program would be the start of a new beginning. But I reached out to my therapist and she connected me with someone in recovery who was in this campus recovery program. He was a post-bachelorette student. And after meeting and having coffee with him, I began to feel less alone. I instantly felt, well, this person has been through what I've been through. And now they're getting help too. So maybe I can do that. And they're going on to do great things. They're going to graduate school. Maybe I can do that. And that's what this is about. That's sending that word out there to the general public. Maybe there's some young people out there or any people out there. They could be college students or just other people with addiction who will hear you and say, hey, maybe I can do that. You know, one thing, one thought that you've kind of provoked in me is that we hear a lot about and research will show and validate that availability drives use. If there's a lot of a drug available, people will tend to use it more. Availability drives use. We've seen this many, many times. Isn't the same thing true with help? Doesn't availability drive seeking help? Like in your case, that happened to be available in the school setting, a campus recovery network. Counselor is available to you where you could go and you could reach out. Absolutely. Absolutely. So after I took that step, like I said, I had no idea that this existed. And, you know, it's still being developed. And these programs are popping up all over the country, which is really nice. I'd really like to see that. But it didn't seem like it was tremendously openly available to students. I didn't see posters or signs or advertisements. But, you know, it turned out to be very accessible. It was right in the Davis Center at UVM, this big building with a ton of events and programs meet there. And so I walk in there and it's this nice studio, comfortable places to sit down and we meet in a circle and we meet for about an hour a week and we talk about our experience in recovery and we go through different articles related to recovery. And it's really a promotion of just bringing students together to talk about their shared experiences and the struggles of being a college student, being around so much partying. Yeah. Availability. The things that are available to us sometimes can drive our behaviors. So it must not be, I mean, for you, for your story, Cliff, you must continuously be faced with the opportunity to use substances. What is it like to be a person in recovery? How long are you in recovery now, if I might ask? Yeah, of course. So my sobriety date is May 12th, 2016. Okay. So I've been in recovery for a little over 17 months. Okay. And it gets easier as time goes on. I will say that. But, you know, when I was just starting out in recovery, I didn't think that I would have relief from my depression. I didn't think I'd have relief from my anxiety. I no longer had these avenues to help fix these problems that I used before. Substances. So I needed to redevelop or focus on different habits that would keep me sober and keep me away from a drug. And so I, you know, luckily I was still in school, so there was a plan laid out for me there. You know, these syllabi I had to follow in these classes and these exams. So getting in a routine is often very helpful for me. And being in recovery, it's not easy, but life is so much better for me than what it was before. Just like the amount of joy and happiness I experience on a daily basis. Like just waking up. But I decided to wake up in the morning with a coffee and do a crossword. And like, you know, I'm actually living and I don't have to constantly worry about, you know, the next way to suppress this feeling, you know, the next way to procure this drug or something, to feel a different way. I find different things to help with that. That's so beautiful. And, you know, we know now today from decades of research that addiction is a brain disease, that the brain is fully compromised, fully impaired, hijacked, some people call it. And the general public really doesn't understand the extent of that. How deep that rungs. You know, it's not, you know, from Friday afternoon till Monday morning. When you get to that certain point where you reach what we call addiction, it's from Friday afternoon to Friday afternoon. Right. 24-7. Right. And the interests that you would normally be drawn to, the healthy interests in life, relationships, hobbies. You know, endeavors, there are different types of things that excite us. All that is inaccessible to you because your brain is so focused on drugs. It takes, like, it's been, would you say, 17 months now? Maybe 18 months of recovery? Your brain is beginning to heal. The old cliff. When you look in the mirror, I'll bet you know who you're looking at. I do. Tell us a little bit about that guy that you see in the mirror today. It's a good question. What's going on with you? A lot of good things. You know, I can now look in the mirror and feel comfortable with who I am as a person rather than who I want to be or who I perceive myself to be or what I think I should be. You know, when I was in active addiction or when I was using substances and alcohol, when I was addicted, I couldn't really see. Like you said, my brain was essentially hijacked. The chemistry in my brain was thrown off in such a way that the things that used to interest me, for instance, playing drums. I was very interested in herpetology, studying snakes and reptiles. I'd always go out in the woods, go on hiking trips and stuff. I lost these. I enjoyed them so much when I was a kid and that was not an instant gratification. That was a long-term happiness that I had. I could spend hours at a time and then nights looking forward to doing it the next day. And with substances, not only did I lose that, but they precipitated the depression, the anxiety, the negative feelings, the loss of relationships. So I may have just gone off a little. No, no, no. You're describing it perfectly. It becomes global. Right. It becomes your world and you can't get out of it. But with recovery, you recover your old interests. You recover the potential for health in your brain. And you were just describing some things that are important to you today, like playing the drums, herpetology, which I think is wonderful how different individuals will find something that's unique to them. Because that's the way their brain operates. When you're in touch with who you are, you find things that bring you pleasure, that bring you joy. What is it that... Tell us a little bit about what you're studying in school. Well, what is that like? Your academic pursuits. Right now I am pursuing a master's degree in medical science at the University of Vermont. When I was an undergrad, I majored in dietetics and nutrition. I've always been interested in health and wellness. I exercise a lot. I do yoga. I cook. I'm very interested in how the body functions as an individual who is affected by these outside circumstances, environment and how we eat and how we socialize. All of this affects our health. So I'm very interested in becoming a physician. I'd love to eventually be able to treat patients holistically, rather than just focusing on a one-time fix it, take a medication, get better for a short period, then you get these side effects. And you're not really looking at the root cause of the problem. I think what our society needs is more of a preventative approach in looking at, okay, what are these behaviors and habits that are developing early on that lead to diseases and conditions? And can we, you know, later in life, when these diseases occur, can we look back and say, oh, how can we treat these? Can we change, alter someone's diet? Can we help with their exercise patterns? Do you think prescribing medications in certain circumstances is extremely important? Of course, of course. So do you think that your journey into and out of addiction will help you to understand your clients and your patients as you move forward? Absolutely. I think, you know, I think I'd look at a patient in a completely different way. I think that I, you know, I would be able to see through the outside, you know, appearance and what they seem to be going through and just sort of open my heart and be able to share in a common struggle of an experience. You know, I struggled physically. I struggled mentally. And I know that I knew that through, you know, different, getting help in different kinds of ways. Eventually, I was able to not be cured in a sense, but to be treated in a healthy way throughout my life. And I want to bring that to other people. I think that's a beautiful and concise description, Cliff. Now, what you just mentioned is really interesting. When you said not be cured, to me that triggers a whole line of thought. So the idea of not being cured, what exactly does that mean? So I like to think of it as if I were to go back to using, say one day I just decide, oh, I want to take a drink, or I want to go back to the pipe. I know, because it's happened to be before, that if I do that, this is a progressive illness. If I do that, it'll be worse than the time it was before. Meaning that the high is going to be shorter, the come down is going to be longer. And I've seen this happen to myself. I told you May 12 was my sobriety date. Well, my original sobriety date was sometime in March. And so I relapsed once. And when I relapsed, it started out with one pill. That's it. And it eventually led to my drug of choice, methamphetamine. And I saw that progression more clearly that instance than I ever had before. I just think that is such an essential point for people to understand about addiction, that if you pass the line and you develop what we call brain addiction, that clearly, clearly all the research in the world shows that the safest course of life for you is to abstain from psychoactive chemicals. It's not the kind of thing where you have a 10-year addiction, you become sober for 10 years, and all of a sudden you can start drinking bourbon because you haven't drank bourbon for 10 years. The research shows that there's certain brain pathways that are dormant and they can be reignited with the introduction of a psychoactive chemical. So this is really important for people in recovery to understand, and I think it's really important for the general public to understand. So if you're having a party at your house, you can probably bet that there'll be a few people coming that are in recovery from alcoholism or some addiction. You may not know it because people don't broadcast it, but let's have some drinks that are non-alcoholic. Let's not make people feel uncomfortable if they're not drinking. Let's have some consideration. People do it with people who just eat vegan foods or have to have a special diet. You'll see more and more menus accustomed to that. Let's do that with substances too. Let's welcome people who choose to abstain. And most people, I do believe that most people in recovery learn that lesson the difficult way. Every person's fondest desire is that some day they'll be able to use something casually or socially. They attempt to do it, and lo and behold, is very often a relapse. And sometimes if a person relapses and is reluctant to seek help again, the outcome can be death. Right, absolutely. So if you wanted to speak a little bit now specifically to your peer group out there, what would you say to them? You know, I would say, before I entered into recovery, I couldn't see. I had no idea that I could change. I could change the way I was acting, the way I had been acting for years. I was always that curious kid trying to hang out with the older kids and trying to be cool. And I couldn't see that there was another way of life. And that's because the way my brain is wired is to... I have an addictive personality. You know, I like to use things in excess. And I like to use drugs and substances to mask my feelings. I like to. So I would say, you know, once you do get help, once you break that barrier, there is another life out there waiting for you. You can turn around, you can change. It's absolutely possible. And don't be afraid to ask for help because although it may seem that no one cares or that no one, you know, wants to help, helping other people is a part of my recovery. Like, I need to help other people because it brings me back to the time that I was in their situation. I desperately needed help. And talking with young folks in recovery helps me stay sober myself because I get to relive those experiences, see where I went wrong, and what I've done since then. Thank you. Thank you, Cliff. I think that's one of the main messages for the audience today, that out there, there are many, many people who understand this disease. There are many people waiting and willing to open their door to help you. We'll put up a couple of slides now for college students in Vermont and also for college students nationwide. And we'll put up some slides for public information as far as getting help for people with addiction. But what I'd like you to know, what I'd like you to take away from the program, is that there are many people out here who care about you, like Cliff, like myself, like Channel 17, for giving us the time to have this forum to try to reach you. We understand also that it's not easy. I don't want to give the impression that I think it's easy to break through shame or break through reluctance or break through fear and expose that vulnerable part of yourself that needs help. We know it's not easy, but we would just ask you to listen, to feel the message that we're trying to communicate to you. We do care. And we want you to reach out when you're ready and we'll be here for you. Thank you. Thank you.