 Hello, everyone. And thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Jackie Gifford. I am the editor-in-chief of Travel and Leisure. We are the world's leading travel media brand, reaching some 30 million people across our print, digital, and social channels. Right now, the travel and tourism industry is facing serious headwinds due to the global pandemic. I want to share some numbers with you that are incredibly sobering. A worst-case scenario for our industry in 2020 would see $5.5 trillion lost in GDP, along with almost 200 million jobs. This is a critical time, I believe, for us to be thinking about the future. Specifically, how can the travel and tourism industry take this opportunity to prioritize sustainability and what role should consumers play? So joining me today, I have several esteemed panelists and industry leaders. We have Evelina Weaver-Cruz, the prime minister of Aruba, joining us from Aruba. Ruzwana Beshear, the founder and chief executive officer of Peak.com, joining us from New York. We have Martin Yernikian, the CEO of Corporational in America, joining us from Uruguay. And then we have Greg Trinich, the executive director of Adventure Scientists. And he's joining us from out west in Montana. And both, I should add, both Greg and Ruzwana are young global leaders, which is part of a program with the World Economic Forum. So before we get started, I have a question to ask the audience, which you can answer on Slido. And I'll read the results in 30 seconds. So how do you expect your personal travel plans to change after the COVID-19 crisis? A, a lot, I plan to only stay local or change my habits significantly. B, quite a bit, I might still travel internationally, but I might slow it down. C, I can't wait to get back to my old travel habits. And then D, I'm not sure yet. So please share your responses. And then I will read that in a little bit. And then I just will remind all the attendees that you can ask questions via Slido. I will be moderating the discussion. And then at the end, I will direct the questions to your questions to our panelists. Okay. Things are changing a little bit still. We'll give it another few seconds as people answer. This is fascinating to see. Okay. I think we've got, it changed again. I love watching this in real time. All right. Things are still shifting. But I want to make sure we can get to our panelists. So it looks like as of right now, the answer that came out ahead is that people's travel plans are going to change quite a bit. They might still travel internationally, but it's going to slow down. But then that was at the 46%. But then right behind it, we also have, I can't wait to get back to my old travel habits at 40%, which I actually believe is quite encouraging. So to kick things off, I want to speak with the Prime Minister in Aruba. Thank you again so much for joining us. Can you please give the audience an overview of what's going on in Aruba right now, both from a public health standpoint, an economic standpoint, and also from a travel and tourism standpoint? Well, thank you. And first of all, greetings from Aruba, the One Happy Island. Thank you for this unique opportunity addressing matters that are very important to us. As you know, Aruba has an economy that is highly tourism driven. 80% of our GDP is directly or indirectly linked to tourism. So the COVID crisis hit us hard, not only on public health, but also socioeconomically. We closed our borders for the first time in Aruba history. We did this in March. So we could address the spreading of the virus on the island and to create a safe environment for our tourism tourists or visitors to come back. During the lockdown, we developed an actionable plan for economic recovery and innovation. We call it repositioning our sales. We are now finalizing this master plan. It is a three-year plan that seeks economic growth that is smart, that is inclusive, is sustainable, and it focuses on the structural and innovative reforms so we can become a resilient country with a resilient economy. Tourism will remain Aruba's most important economic pillar, but we need to diversify the industry in terms of job creation in Aruba. So we are thinking about labor reform, tax reforms, digitalization of services, and our ambitions are not only geared towards bouncing back, but more importantly, bouncing forward with accelerated innovation capabilities. Prior to the reopening of our borders this summer, we launched an Aruba health and happiness code. This requires businesses to adhere to mandatory hygiene and health protocols so we can protect our visitors and our residents. We also offer rapid testing at the airport and health screenings to maximize the safety. And I can tell you that since reopening of the borders this summer, we have very few cases of COVID among tourists. As a matter of fact, only 0.1%. And we believe this is partly due to the thorough approach that we have in place for preventive safeguards in Aruba. The tourists are very happy to be visiting Aruba, both the first timers as our repeat guests. We are not done yet combating the COVID crisis in Aruba. We are still fighting to stop the spreading and at the same time to create environment to address unemployment. That is a real issue in Aruba. But we feel that we have been successful up until now in fighting the spreading of the virus, while at the same time reopening Aruba for the tourists to come back. And our motto is Aruba is open for happiness and that is what we strive for. What are travelers asking for now? I mean, they're having to think about all these things in terms of healthcare, public health, safety, social distancing that they've never thought of before. So what are you seeing? What is the priority really for visitors at this moment? As you mentioned, travelers are very concerned about safety and health measures, but they're also looking for greater flexibility. Flexibility from the airlines, from the hotels, and other tourism businesses, given the uncertainty that people feel when they start making their plans. They also want more communication and information. And even though not all information is available, they want to feel like the destinations are doing their best to keep the travelers informed and to keep them safe. And I can mention that most of our hotels in Aruba are offering flexible cancellation or postponement options in bookings. We also launched an happily ever after guarantee. This is the first postponable booking policy for any couple looking to book a wedding or honeymoon in Aruba in 2021. We have also noticed that working from home is on the rise. So we introduced our one happy work location. And this program offers the option to work in paradise for up to three months and also offer longer deals for longer stays. This is a trend that we are seeing in Aruba as more tourists are extending their trips. Statistics show Americans want to travel. Many haven't traveled all year, especially not abroad, and are feeling like stuck at home. Travel can also help with well being. So many travelers are seeking out beach destinations and secluded experiences and making the proximity of Aruba and our unique location a compelling escape. Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm going to quickly turn to Martin. So Martin Corporation on America is the largest private sector airport concession operator in the world with a huge footprint in Latin and South America, an area of the world that has sadly been hit hard by the virus. You are also one of the largest private sector airport operators in the world in terms of traffic. So can you share some statistics with us and where do airports go from here? Well, I wouldn't talk only about the airports. I would talk about the whole aviation ecosystem which has been hit really hard and we live within the tourism sector, right? Although we profit from business travelers and other reasons for travel, tourism is the number one reason for travel. And since March we've seen, I don't need to repeat this, but this is the worst disruption in the life of this industry since it became mainstream 50 years ago. And even at the high season of August we're seeing numbers down between 80 and 95, 98 percent depending on the different airports of the 52 we run between South America, Italy and Armenia. And the most worrying part of this is the fact that the industry six months into this tragedy doesn't have a clear consolidated approach on getting out of this. I think the lack of leadership that we see in other issues in the world, including sustainability and the lack of mainstream or a common view worldwide on how to approach this, it's overlapping, it's overflowing into this industry where there is still not a common approach within countries and regions of the world on what is needed for this industry to restart. But as a company and personally we work very hardly within the industry unions and trade groups. I'm a member of the board of ACI, the organization that brings the airports together worldwide and our idea is that we need to have a common approach with governments and countries that can assure the traveler enough confidence to make a decision to start traveling because we have seen airlines trying to get back on their feet and start scheduling flights, but we have not seen the response of the traveler. People are still afraid and they do not know what to expect. Each country has their own different rules. Even within unions such as the EU, different countries have different rules and it's very complicated for people to know what they need to do to travel. We need to get that confidence back by having one global standard led by hopefully IKO in this industry for aviation. And the approach of the airports as of today, I think airlines are in the same page, is we need to find ways to bring technology into the equation to get confidence into the travelers that when they get into an airplane all the people around them have been tested and they are negative. This is I think the only tool that we see really as a game changer for the industry in the meantime until we have a vaccine, which again hopefully will be soon, but no one really knows how long it might take. Yeah, can you talk? I think people want to know what airport design is going to be like, what the actual process could be like going forward. Can you speak a little bit about that and how airports could potentially use this time when traffic is limited to rebuild, to rethink how travelers approach even getting in and then eventually boarding that plane and to your point it has to be somewhat of a unified response. Yeah, well the same way in other aspects of life, the trends that we saw coming before the pandemic and we also saw accelerating during the pandemic, I think the same thing we will see at the airports and in this case Aruba is a great example. Aruba was one of the first countries in the world along with Uruguay where I'm based now that started using biometric technology to do the full passenger flow since you get into the airport until you get on the plane and thus requiring you to touch less things, to interact less with other people, being able to give you the social distancing required for this pandemic. So I think we will see that accelerating really fast the adoption of technologies in this matter but we will also see all sorts of changes. We have adapted the airports the same many airlines in terms of cleaning protocols, the availability of cleaning materials for passengers. We have run a survey and we realized that the passenger profile has changed quite a bit and we have found that around 30 percent of our passengers, they are not happy with us telling them that we are sanitizing everything and changing protocols for them to be safe. They want to be able to do that themselves. They want to have cleaning materials and wipes and things at the airport to be able to wipe their surfaces around them and get their space, the confidence that they need. So we are doing these kind of things at the airport as well beyond the distancing measures, the windows and the technology we are bringing in. But I think all of this is conciliatory to the fact that as long as you know what to expect when you travel happens, people will not have confidence. If you have to do a trip that has three legs and each leg has a different requirement, 14 days quarantine, 7 days quarantine or no quarantine testing or no testing, this is very complex for passengers. This is what needs to be addressed, I think, for the industry to be able to restart. Yeah, just one last question very quickly. How many people do you employ worldwide? So how many people are within the Corporation America umbrella? So directly in the 52 airports, there are 6,000 employees, but only if you think of only one airport in Argentina, the biggest international airport in Argentina, that airport, in that airport we employ around 700 people, but the ecosystem at the airport is around 25,000 direct employees, and then you have all the indirect that are coming from the outside to bring services in. So the industry, we all know that employs a big part of the world's population in GDP. So restart this a must. Yeah, thank you. Rizwana, we've known each other for many years and actually you're one of the the last people I saw in person here in New York. You've been a dear friend. You and Peak, you've built a business around connecting travelers with local providers and many of the experiences on your platform are affordable, things like a Brooklyn Bridge running tour of New York for $40. So how will destinations and travel providers market themselves differently now? Is sustainability going to be a part of that message and what do travel providers need to be thinking about? I think COVID safety is a really important aspect. Now I think one of the things that we're seeing is when consumers are coming, they want to know that there's a contactless guest experience that I can sign a waiver digitally. I don't have to do anything physically, but there are limitations on the number of people that are coming to things. I think we're now in an era where knowing that there are extremely small groups matters to people and even being able to do something privately and so having more flexibility and optionality around that. So I think as a marketer, some of the things that you might be celebrating now about what you're doing might be around, well, this is in nature. This is something that's a small experience that you might be able to have on your own. And I think, frankly, what we're seeing is there's a big push towards local. And so even on our platform, obviously when COVID originally happened, no one was going outside, bookings were down. But actually we've seen bookings really come up and in certain areas, they have really rocketed. So things like kayaking or renting a boat or a bike, those have been up almost 400% over the summer. And a lot of what we're seeing is that local bookings have doubled so people are staying closer to home. So I think if you're a marketer, especially in the US, you're kind of looking to say, go and stay in your local market, have a staycation, find fun things to do locally. And this is a safe way to get into nature. So I think sustainability, I think as you look at it on a big picture level, I do think you'll be seeing people traveling broad less over the next year. And as they're doing that, they're going to be staying closer to home. But as they are staying closer to home, I think they're looking for things that allow them to get it outdoors and into nature. In small groups. And I think that's where there is a potential risk on sustainability, because we need to make sure that we're protecting these local regions as well. Yeah. Can you share what destinations in the United States seem to be trending the most on your site? What we're seeing is that it's around the secondary and tertiary areas that are close to big cities. So as an example, Long Beach in Los Angeles, bookings there are up 300%. So what we're seeing is that people kind of want to stay close to home. They want to drive within about 100 to 200 miles away. And they're looking for things that allow them to get on the water or outside. And so anything that might be nature orientated or allows you to get into the coast, that's working very well. And people are actually willing to drive even further. We're seeing that people's desire for flying is still lower or has been. I think that may change over the coming months. Especially since we're talking about all the rapid COVID testing that could emerge. But really, we're seeing big leaps in small areas like Long Beach or areas in Florida where people are able to go and get outside and are actually able to do something that allows them to drive. And we're seeing a huge kind of peak in demand around anything water or nature related. Hal then, I think the beauty of travel is also that human connection, right? That's why we travel is to meet new people. So how do we preserve that in this socially distanced world? Because part of the beauty of New York City, which is my hometown, is the people that live here make up New York City. And I don't, as a traveler, necessarily want to go somewhere and always be just divorced from the place. So how do some of your providers make a meaningful connection with travel? The idea of having a guide or a walking tour or something like that becomes more important, right? Because you are going to have less of those random occurrences. So how is it that you might be able to connect with locals who really have been living there for 30 or 40 years, have great experience. So we have taught walking tours of Soho in New York and we're going to be able to show you these nicks and crannies. So I do think probably as you're coming in as a visitor, it becomes more important to find ways to connect with locals, to have dining experiences that incorporate locals or off the beaten track areas. And so I think that that is, you know, I think it is a challenge. And I think it's an area where I think actually, frankly, local providers are doing a really good job. And we see that where they're beginning to have smaller tours, and they're ensuring that guides can share some of that character and that local flower. And so I think that's, I think something that we're going to see more of is the people who might normally say, Hey, I'm going to go around this city on my own. And now saying, actually, I'd love to have somebody who can help guide me through that, where I am able to perhaps go to some restaurants that are still open, that are, you know, areas that feel safe. So I think that guidance is becoming more important. Yeah, personal expertise still matters. Expertise still matters for travelers. They want, they need it now more than ever before. I'm going to move over to Greg. Adventure Scientist is a very amazing nonprofit. So individuals can actually volunteer to collect data at your various locations to protect species and ecosystems. So for example, just for the audience, your Montana project looks at the impact motor vehicles have on wildlife. And so Adventure Scientist volunteers will actually cycle 11,000, over 11,000 miles of Montana's roads recording all the wildlife and roadkill tragically that they encounter as well as detailed environmental observations. They then feed that back to you. I think this is an amazing project. So before COVID, I would say that sustainable tourism and overtourism really focused a lot of the times on cities on places like Venice, Barcelona. But we actually right now need to be thinking about our natural spaces too. As we've all heard, there's a rush to get to some of these natural spaces right now. So what are you seeing, Greg? And can you share your thoughts on that? Yeah, well, so the tourism in these natural places has been climbing for years this year. In Yellowstone National Park, there was this August, we had a seven and a half percent increase from last year. And it's the second highest level of visitation in Yellowstone ever. It's 2017 was the previous record, which was for the eclipse. And so these places definitely are being flocked to. And it's been happening for quite a long time. I used to, before I started Adventure Scientist, I used to guide trips out all over the country to our national parks and place called Desolation National Monument, or I guess Desolation Wilderness, rather, outside of Lake Tahoe. And the overcrowding there and visitation that we saw in places like that over a decade ago was problematic. You couldn't get campsites. The campsites were becoming littered with toilet paper and trash in those places. And it's a huge, huge issue. It is pushing people who have traditionally gone to these places more remote into the wilderness, getting people to go out even further. The challenge that we're facing, at least here in the U.S., and I know this is true across South America and in Central Africa as well, as fires are adding to this challenge too. And so you've got this combined challenge of climate change and the fact that conditions on the ground are dangerous for a number of reasons in addition to COVID. The biggest challenges with COVID are looking at traveling through the small towns as you get to these places. I think people need to be super mindful of coming from cities and moving across small towns in Montana where I live or elsewhere and bringing the potential of bringing COVID with them to these towns that maybe haven't seen outbreak levels just yet. Yeah. Is this the moment that you see volunteerism actually take off? We've talked about volunteerism for a long time in the travel industry and I'm not entirely convinced that it's as popular as people wanted it to be. But I actually believe maybe this is the moment. It does become something that people believe in. Yeah. I mean, I started this organization almost a decade ago now when after a career of exploration and traveling around the world, I actually walked the length of South America and had these adventures where the purpose of them was the adventure. The purpose of them was simply going to these places and I just started to feel extremely selfish. I started to feel like going to these places for my own benefit without thinking about the local people that were there, without thinking about the environment that I was traveling through and how to do something positive for those areas was really problematic for me. And so I started the organization believing that like myself, there were tens of thousands of people who go outside every single day whether they're climbing or biking or kayaking and that they have given simple tools and ways to make a difference will choose to do that. We've had tens of thousands of volunteers work through adventure scientists to do that and we see that in other volunteerism groups as well. There are so many people who hope that there is a way for them to actually make a positive difference. And that's one of the biggest challenges is distinguishing between, you know, if you're paying a fee to go and do this or if you are in these areas, how can you be sure that it really matters? How can you be sure that the work that you're doing isn't just benefiting some corporation or NGO or that that money actually gets back to the purpose that it was intended for. And I think that it's a responsibility of people who travel and look at the issues facing the areas that they're visiting to get a more holistic picture than maybe just sitting on the beach or maybe just looking at these very isolated tourist destinations or tourist areas that you go to in these places and to think about how you could really make a difference while you're out there. You know, our organization has a limited number of offerings where it takes us years to develop these projects and build these projects so that we can be sure impact is at the center. And so if somebody's going to go and volunteer for, say, our timber projects where they're traveling from anywhere from Mexico to Alaska and they can go and take samples from very specific species or trees, those samples are then being fed to prosecutors who are using it to combat illegal timber harvest. So a hiker, a boater, somebody who can just get into a remote area can go and take a tree core and then that tree core gets fed law enforcement where they have it in the database and can compare it to what's suspected to be illegal timber harvest. And so that's a great example of a project we built that has lasting impact and will absolutely benefit these places that people are traveling to. And there's so many other great groups that are doing things that truly benefit the people and truly benefit the environment in those places and people have to see it. Thank you, Greg. I'm going to ask you one quick question. So just to remind the audience, you can ask us questions on Slido. I'm going to turn to the Q&A portion and the first question I think is great for you, Greg. For those that want to get out to nature but aren't that experienced, what sort of things should they think about to ensure that they don't have a negative impact? Yeah, great question. I think working with a group like pete.com and finding a local guide that is going to make sure that their participants almost always those guides care deeply about the places that they're guiding in. And so going with a local guide is certainly an option. There's a great group called Leave No Trace. So anybody who doesn't know that can visit Leave No Trace and look at the ethics of wilderness travel. I mean a lot of it is common sense to if you are leaving anything but footprints, then you're probably doing more than you should. Making sure that you are following those Leave No Trace ethics and also just being a good citizen. It's the same thing you would do when you visit a city. If it's, you know, Kofiapo or wherever it is in South America, you want to make sure that you represent wherever country you're from well. You want to make sure that you're leaving good memories for people. And so you try to just be a good citizen. And the same thing is true in wellness. Yeah, and I'll direct another question from the audience to the prime minister. Thank you, Greg. What is the Rubiz policy on quarantine for arriving visitors? Currently we have the policy in place is that there is no quarantine for tourists traveling to Aruba with the exception of the quarantine needed in order to wait for the test results. We have defined some states and countries that need to do the testing before coming to Aruba and can only board if they have a negative test, that those are the areas that are most affected. Areas that are not that affected can come to the island and then they will do the test here in Aruba and then have to keep in quarantine until they receive the result of the test. The results are in within 24 hours. At this moment, we are in the average of eight hours. So when a tourist arrives within eight hours, maximum 24 hours, he or she will receive its test results. We have an app, we have developed an Aruba health app that they are able to upload once they arrive. And then they will receive the test results on that app mostly around eight hours. And then they're free free to explore the island. Thank you. Martin, I'm going to direct this question to you because I think it's very interesting when we think about the ecosystem of an airport. How can people be more informed as to where their tourism dollars go? It's a tough question. I think that for that, what Pik and Greg do a lot. But if you have to think of sustainability, that there are issues in mass tourism that can only be addressed with worldwide agreed policies. There is no way to offset or to lower the carbon footprint of the industry, for example, without a real worldwide policy. And if this pandemic has taught us a lesson, is that things that happen in one part of the world affect the whole world because we are all very much interconnected. And this is as valid for health as for the health of the planet. Beyond what you spend on, if you spend on an airline that has a bigger carbon footprint, that the next airline, which those things happen and I think travelers should be very much aware on, for example, if they go to a destination, how green is that destination? And at airports, we are working towards getting consensus for neutral emission targets. And as an organization for airports, we're working our way to getting that consensus. It's not easy because members of countries as industries, but the industries are working their way into that. Same thing with many airlines. And you can do your research and find out how these airports look like. We are installing solar panels at our airports. We are taking care of our waste and our water waste. We have one of the airports in our network is in the Galapagos Islands. This is the first carbon neutral airport in the world. And it's one that has all the protocols in place to leave the smallest footprints, not only in terms of carbon, which is probably the one that everybody concerns the most. But everything else that we do at the airport, we do it with a conscience, not to leave a mark on the environment because this is a place that needs to be safeguarded. But this is a very small place and a very special place. This idea has to spill over to the rest of the world and the travel industry, I think. Yeah. Thank you so much. I'm going to just ask some final questions for our panel. I'm going to move over to the Prime Minister again. So as we look to rebuild, how are you in Aruba going to prioritize job creation, attracting tourist back, but also sustainability? We want to make sure that sustainability is not divorced from the economic priorities. I'm already seeing plastic consumption go up a tremendous amount here in New York and in the United States. So what are some of the green policies you have in Aruba and what do you want to do going forward? Well, during the past few years, we've already worked hard to put in place a wide array of sustainability initiatives. And we're fortunate that we can more easily maintain some of these initiatives because of that password that we've done. But still, it's very important not to lose sight of these priorities. Currently, we continue to look at how to adapt to the conditions in the wake of COVID while also advancing our sustainability efforts. On combating the effects on the environment and climate change, the top priority remains that we should do everything we can in order to support these priorities. Our energy is already 10% sustainable with production of wind and solar energy. We have already banned all single-use plastic banks in 2017. And as of this year, this ban expanded also to the use of, sorry, including the plastics and including styrofoam. So in protection of the marine environment, but we also passed legislation designating a marine park. And in further protection of the marine life, we have also banned oxybenzone. Since last year, this is a chemical found in many sunscreens that can harm the corals. In 2018, the X Expedition announced that they would host the 300 guest crew of women from different backgrounds and skill sets to sail around the world. Aruba participated and by gaining the expert skill and knowledge on the sampling, the collecting, the analyzing of the plastics in the ocean and on land, we have the opportunity to become a world leader in understanding the effects of plastic on our environment and our economy. We also launched an Aruba Promise in 2019. This is a voluntary digital pledge where visitors can sign that they acknowledge their responsibility and commitment to help preserve this island for generations to come. So those are some of the initiatives, but the most important part is not to lose sight of the commitment towards sustainability, even though we are combating this COVID crisis. Thank you. Thank you so much. Rizwana, I want to move back to you. You work with so many small businesses on peak and right now the challenges for many small businesses are dire. They're having to adapt. They're facing ever-changing state and local guidelines as to what they can do. How can they sustain themselves? How are they looking for opportunities elsewhere and then also how can they use technology to maybe look to the future? Yes, I think technology has been a really important aspect of what the businesses are doing. The type of businesses that we work with are pretty small. They provide ziplining or a walking tour and technology wasn't a big part of what they did. And so a lot of what we've been providing them with is online bookings and payments for their own website through our peak pro technology and a lot of things on site that allow you to do everything in advance. And I think what we're seeing is that advanced booking and inventory management and people management is a really big piece now. As we're getting into a new world, I think that those limitations on groups and being able to manage it really well and ensure that people can book in advance or when they arrive, they're not having to line up, be close to lots of people. So there's some really basic things around technology where we can solve those problems. We can help people do everything electronically. But I think with that, I think it's giving these businesses new opportunities that didn't exist before as well, which is thinking about their local opportunities. I think in a ruber it might be a little bit more challenging, but I think in a lot of the U.S., in other markets, what you can see is that these businesses can think about how they can serve locals better. And that might be a very different tour. It might not be as much focused on spots that are big attractions. It might actually be about local neighborhood points. We're also seeing that with a lot of the things that are happening with virtual schooling, there's a demand for kids to have something to do after school. And so we're seeing businesses that are leaning into that and saying, okay, well, you can go kayaking in the evening to see bioluminescent kind of areas in your own town or area. You might be able to do bike tours and things like that. And so I do think there's growing need from consumers that's changing alongside a whole wave of virtual experiences that are beginning. And I think those virtual experiences will eventually become a mix of in-person and virtual. But there's a whole emergence of, you know, you can do a cooking class with somebody who's in Morocco from your home here and learn about Moroccan cooking. So I think there is going to be a lot of opportunity that comes out of this. And the lean into local and lean into using technology has been the two biggest things that we've seen for the businesses that have actually been able to thrive during this period. And I hope that that can continue. I think the winter is going to be challenging. Yeah, thank you. Greg, quickly talk to me about greenwashing. How can consumers go beyond a company's message to really verify that the work is being done? I think you're on mute. Greg, sorry. Yeah, it's a great question. It happens all the time, especially in the tourism industry. I think, you know, that's what I spoke to you before. You've got to understand what the company is selling you. And if it's some big lofty goal of we're going to save the world through this, you know, one tour to Aruba, that's probably not going to be something that is worth following through with. It's something that's probably going to be greenwashed. I think so looking for the realistic component of what's in there, making sure you understand the theory of change. And so working backwards from if our goal is to have a positive effect on climate to reduce carbon emissions, even when you're buying your carbon offsets, asking questions about where those go, who you're actually paying for that money. That is so with that money that is so important and thinking about actually just going one step further. In most cases, you can just Google a little bit more about these issues and learn much more than you ever thought was possible. And so I just think it is on travelers, it is on people to make sure that the companies that they're working with have been certified that they're following metrics and being recognized by places like travel and leisure as sustainable tourism companies. Generally, if you don't have time or energy to do that homework, then these companies like National Geographic and Travel and Leisure and others certainly are doing that homework. Well, I just want to say thank you to everybody for coming. Thank you to the audience for tuning in today. Our panelists joining us from all over the world. It's been an absolute pleasure to speak with you. If you'd like to learn more about the work being done on sustainable tourism at the World Economic Forum, go to the forum's website. You can see the link. It's posted in the chat. I'm Jackie Gifford, the Editor-in-Chief of Travel and Leisure. Again, thank you and I hope to see you in person soon.