 Good evening, everyone, and welcome to 31 Dlye Street, the beautiful headquarters of the Lowy Institute. My name is Andrew Griffiths and I'm the head of media and communications here at the Institute. I'd like to start tonight by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which we meet, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and pay my respects to their elders past, present and emerging. We're delighted to welcome so many journalists from across the Pacific Islands here tonight, along with our Australian media colleagues. Of course, Australian journalists have a long and storied tradition of reporting on and from the Pacific Islands, but I think we'd all agree that historically most reporting on the region has been a bit one-way, Western voices telling Pacific stories. And while it's encouraging to see, hear and read more Pacific perspectives in our media in recent years, the need to further elevate Pacific voices on issues affecting Pacific islands, Pacific Island countries has never been more important. The great stories of our age are being played out on our and your doorsteps, a great strategic rivalry between the United States and China, the challenge of a global response to climate change, the need for free and impartial media, the future of alliances, diplomacy and democracy. There is an increasing appetite for your views and experiences on these issues. Unfortunately, we can't cover all of them here tonight. There is just too little time. This evening, our focus will be geopolitics and the Pacific media. Our panel will examine the intensifying rivalries in the region and the influence on Pacific reporting. What are the challenges Pacific Islands reporters face covering geopolitics and how do they manage the pressures of external influence and safeguard press freedom? Our panel tonight includes Dr. Meg Keane, the director of the Lowy Institute's Pacific Islands program. She's joined on stage by three Pacific news leaders, Rosie Dover-Varata, Neville Choi and Viola Ulukai. At the conclusion of their discussion, we'll open to the floor for questions in a room full of journalists. I can't imagine anybody will want to ask a question. We hope tonight will be a chance for you to connect with your Australian colleagues and other journalists from across the region, although I know many of you have been doing that throughout the days. So we hope you'll stay for some drinks and some nibbles as well. Finally, I also want to invite you to come and chat with myself and my Lowy Institute colleagues to talk about ways in which our research and our resources might be useful to your own work. So now it's time to kick off our panel discussion. So please join me in giving our panelists a very warm welcome. So before we begin, is everybody, I don't have my glasses on, but is everybody who's at the back happy to be at the back and standing and don't want to come up front, which is great. Certainly welcome to everybody. Bula, tali tali fia fia. Welcome in every other language you can think of. Bienvenue. I'm glad you're all here. And as Andrew said, it's amazing to have so many media in one room. I think it exceeds what I've seen at Pacific summits, etc. So what's going to be interesting is how does media report on media? And I'm going to be interested to see that tomorrow. Like Andrew, I'd like to acknowledge the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, their culture, their values, and the land on which we meet. But really importantly, our Indigenous people here in Australia have worked very hard to have a voice, not always successfully, to influence policy and politics. And that's very relevant to what we're talking about today, is how the Pacific media takes this very complicated geopolitical situations and puts their lens on it and conveys that to the world. We certainly know that there has been a rising geopolitical pressures, a lot of visits to the region. And while we often hear about how that manifests itself, we don't always see how it impacts on the Pacific media. And that's really what we want to look at. We know that there's been changes in ownerships of media outlets. There's been financial contributions. There's been exchanges to major power countries for training and hobnobbing and possibly a bit of influence. And we certainly know there's been an uptick in the way diplomatic missions are creating news to get into the papers. So all of this goes to how we manage this geopolitics and the influence that it tries to bring and keep that Pacific lens. And I have a fantastic panel. You got their names, but you didn't get just their depth of experience. I thought I'd just quickly say that beside me here, Rosie has been the acting publisher and CEO of the Fiji Sun. She is also the co-founder, I believe, of women in media for Fiji, but then has gone on to expand that to all the Pacific as well. So we've got some interesting issues about gender that we can explore. Neville Choi is the president of the P&G Media Council, but has also been an editor in chief for a major paper in P&G. And there's certainly no stranger to taking a strong stance about media independence in his own country. And then Viola Ulakai, who has I think over 30 years of experience in the media. I'm just saying that she's also been an international correspondent as well as the general manager of the Tonga Broadcasting Corporation and a really important player in Pina, which I think you're all familiar with, the Pacific Island News Association. So we've got an enormous, almost intimidating amount of expertise up here. I did say that I'm going to throw some questions, but given that these people all have more experience to me, I said feel free to ask each other questions too and we'll just roll on. So great. I wanted to start with Neville and I wanted to think about influence in the media and particularly in P&G where we've seen absolute flood of external players and leaders coming in from everywhere from France, Indonesia, China, Australia, many different countries. They bring their own media packs with them. And then we have these issues that go to geopolitics about security agreements and about recognition and about free trade agreements. And then you get media packs coming into your country looking at when there's major events, massacres, riots, motions of no confidence. So I'm interested to know how this attention in the reporting actually do you get to reflect cultural context, P&G perspectives and does all this presence start to change the way Papua New Guineans see these geopolitical issues and expect media to report on them? So what's been your experience of this influx? Thank you Meg. I think for the media in Papua New Guinea, regardless of the scale of the foreign dignitaries who attend, who visit, they may have their own motivations. Much of that is from a national perspective, from a regional perspective. But I think the media organizations are very aware of the challenges that the people in P&G face. And they are the audiences of our output and our productions. So I think the work that the P&G media does in contextualizing what these visits mean. I mean, when they come with their own media packs, as you put it, they do report on the national, regional, and global aspects of it. But I think the P&G media has been very successful in contextualizing the challenges and what it means to the people on the ground. Having these foreign powers coming in, having them talk about major issues like climate change, but breaking it down is what the P&G media does. And I think that has come through very strongly. And do you find that your media people are being asked more and more to have an input into the international reporting? Or is that still something you're breaking into and needs to change? Well, case in point would be the recent riots of January 10th. So January 10th, 11th, and the 12th was when much of it was happening. And then, but immediately after that, after control was restored and order was restored, the city basically went back to semi-normal. But it was then that the international media started getting footage of the riots and stories about the riots. So we saw a rise in the international stories depicting Papua New Guinea as being in chaos when everything had already been settling down. I think that points to either the international media not having access and not being on the ground to report truthfully. Rose, I was just wondering your reflections on this. And if we look at Fiji, it's a hub. It probably has more diplomatic representation in Suva than any other Pacific Island country. It also is host to regional agencies. Like many other countries, it has a policy of friends to all. And I wonder if that starts to push in on media of offense to few, please, and a pressure to offend few in their foreign engagements in your country, or not. How are you experiencing this foreign engagement in Fiji? Yeah, I think similar to what never was said. We're very aware of the needs of our people. Just because the Secretary of State lands in Fiji doesn't mean that they will be given prime time or on the front pages. So I think newsroom leaders are well aware of what's going on and, again, providing context. I think that's important that gives perspective to what really other bread and butter issues that our people face every day. You know, in an earlier conversation we were talking about not only is there this foreign influence or the potential for foreign influence, there is a need for a strong stance by Pacific organizations to take safeguards to protect media independence in their countries with foreign interests coming in, and possibly foreign investment in media. Could you talk a little bit about what those safeguards might look like in your opinion? Thank you, Doctor. Firstly, I would like to pose the question of whether the Pacific media has a choice when geopolitical competition influences us through making donations to what media needs in terms of, let's say, financially, technology, capacity building, and other needs such as sponsored study trips to their countries. Are we the media in the Pacific vulnerable to such geopolitical competition? You know, we are a small-scale economy, and most national governments heavily depend on foreign aid and loans. In the media, even national or government-owned media, you know, for instance, like Tonga Broadcasting Commission, as we do not get a portion of the national budget, and I'm noted that Tonga Broadcasting Commission is one. In this case, I believe that we cannot distance ourselves from geopolitical influences as they come in and assist in much-needed areas. In this way, I believe we can embrace geopolitical assistance as long as we do not compromise our content. That is, we cannot be vulnerable to major powers of, let's say, the United States, China, even New Zealand and Australia to manipulate our independence and distort our editorial independence. So I'm sure that in that case, we can all attest to this reality and common experience that we share and experience a small-scale economy, not only in our national economies, but also in the media landscape that we operate in. So, Viola, you've raised this issue of finances and we had just this morning, the news in New Zealand that its news hub is going to be closed, possibly 300 jobs lost, but also a feed of information that goes into the Pacific. But there is always this problem with small media outlets about financial viability and where you get your resources from, and whether or not that makes you vulnerable in the geopolitical sense. But I wanted to start, as I understand it in P&G, the post-currier is one of the only newspapers in the Pacific that is financially independent. It actually turns a profit. And so what interests me about that is then, do you see investment in mentoring and training? We would expect maybe to see some more investigative journalism, possibly foreign, but also domestic issues. But I'm not sure we're seeing that uptick in investigative journalism. So it has the finances. What's the implication? And if something's holding back doing the investigative journalism, what is it? Is it the finances or is it something else? I think for a large part, it is finances. And post-currier is the only one that's recognized that does announce profits or announce annual profits. But it doesn't mean that they're doing better than all the other media organizations. We have a limited advertising market in the country. And when national unrests occur, that cuts the advertising. That gives a really hard time to businesses to be able to spend on advertising. That shrinks the advertising market for the media. So even though post-currier may be publishing the annual financial results, and it looks really good, they do face the same challenges everybody else does. With regards to investigative journalism, I think you may be aware of Insight PNG, which is a fairly new online news company. And they're made up of the team of former journalists from MTV who were sacked en masse. So they got together and started Insight PNG. They don't have any, they don't get any funding from government. They don't get any funding from anywhere. But they do have international partners who have reached out and have collaborated with them on stories. And I think one of the major stories that they came out with recently was the result of eight to nine months of investigations regarding, and I think the AFP recently made an arrest in Brisbane with regards to that story. And I know for a fact that the AFP did at some point work with Insight PNG and OCCRP who was helping them with investigative journalism. So that one story has changed the entire landscape of transparency, accountability. And you'll note that the effect of that one story even has politicians coming out and presenting and naming people and presenting statistics where previously that wasn't really available. Yeah, I'd just like to add, I mean, the case is similar in Fiji. We are after the same advertising dollar. The market is small. So in our case, for instance, for the Fiji sun, I apply for every opportunity that's out there. And I think whether it's from Google News Initiative, whether it's through PacMess, we are there, we are applying for these things. And I think, as Neville had said in regards to your question about investigative journalism, so what we did back in 2019 was when we were awarded a Google News Initiative Emergency Fund. So that's when we decided, okay, we'll start up an investigative team, which makes up one person. And we've... New definition of a team. And we've maintained that up till today. It's a challenge. And again, it comes down to resources. And it's something that I've heard throughout the past few days that we've been together the shared challenges of trying to maintain people. They come in two, three years and they out the door. So obviously, the institutional knowledge that some of those in this room have are not what we see in the paper or on news shows. So these are some of the issues that we continue to grapple with. And it will take time. And if the funding is not there, we will continue to be challenged. So what works? I mean, what's coming... And I know all of you in one way or another have been with building up networks. So it's not only only about the finances, it's about the capacity. With geopolitical issues, they transcend borders. So it doesn't matter whether you're doing trade, crime, climate change. So that collaborative approach, and you've got a lot of collaborators sitting in the audience in front of you, is obviously pretty key. And I wonder if you can reflect on what's been really effective in building teams that go beyond one. Is it associations like PINA? Or is it less formal associations, collaborations? What is it that gives you that edge that allows you to deliver on those more complex stories? I think PINA has committed for several years in terms of capacity building of media personnel in all Pacific Island countries, Tonga included. And from my experience, thanks to the organizations such as PIPA now faced out, and now we have the Pacific Media Initiative of ABC. And PINA can no longer do this alone to be effective and sustainable. It's in the 1980s in 2000s, I think, and also caters for the human capacity and technical needs of regional media organizations. So I am grateful to say that Tonga Boatcasting Commission and Tonga and the media organizations back at home have benefited from regional networking through PINA. News reporters, technicians, and producers from Tonga have the past received capacity development opportunities. And that was through these networks. So I wonder, Rosie, I know you've been very involved with digital transformation of media and using digital formats to expand networks, access news, transmit news. Is this one way where you can expand on your information sources, you can connect with other colleagues, you can add depth to stories. So I'm interested with this digital transformation. Is it about that you can get your stories out and it influences how geopolitics is looked at? Or is it that people are putting information into your system? And how does it work to deal with geopolitical issues? I think the collaboration is important that it's both ways. And I think it's worked for us just an example. We had some funding with EJN where we worked on zoonotic diseases that were happening in Fiji, leptospiruses. I mean, that's just one example. So our reporter was working closely with those and it wasn't just us, it was about seven other newsrooms in Asia. So I think those are really useful that it's not just the voices of those from the outside coming in, but also we are the Pacific, we understand our culture and our traditions. And I think sometimes we lose sight of that. And they're very important. Those collaborations where our input is a vital part of that. And do you get insights on what's happening geopolitically in other countries, whether it's China's investment in aid programs, the way the U.S. is engaging, politicization of geopolitical issues? Or do you get, does it allow you to interact and compare what's going on in your country compared to other countries? Back in Tonga, you know, of course they have all these development programs. And most of the time I can tell that, you know, they want more publicity. So I can, you know, seeing really, really need the money. I asked the program department, asked them if they want to broadcast it live on radio, Tonga or television, Tonga, they have to pay for it. But, you know, apart from the new steam, they can cover it up to them what angle they want to take. But if they, you know, because sometimes you can tell that they want, you know, most of the program to be part of, let's say, the news or some of the programs on either radio or TV. So what actually happened at home? We asked them if you want the whole program to be on TV or radio, you pay for the airtime. As for the news, it's up to the news team to see whatever, you know, they want to take for the news. Anybody want to add to that about, you know, that whole connecting with others in the region to get a perspective on what is the geopolitical engagements and how they're being handled and how it reflects on what's going on in your own countries. Well, for Papua New Guinea, I think the acknowledgement of where these geopolitical arrangements come in is pretty clear. There are clear lines as to what's nationally and globally motivated as compared to what's motivated nationally and on the ground. It comes back to what we've been talking about is contextualizing. But the issues, I think, take the United States embassy, for example. The United States understands that the freedom of media is important. So we'll never find the U.S. embassy trying to impose anything on any newsroom unless it's a public event. If there is something else that they would like to have aired or broadcast or printed or published, then they would have to pay for it as an editorial. I think that the lines between the newsroom, news and editorial management and the management of the company has to be clear. Because we do understand that there are pressures within the country that come down from collaborations between different governments and different countries. And whether it's directly from or through our government or our national leadership or whether it's through corporate interests. So there may be companies that are operating in Papua New Guinea who are either state-owned by other foreign governments or who actually may report to them in some sort of way. So we are fully aware of that. And I think the lines between what's editorially considered as news as opposed to what's considered public information are clear. If I can just add, we just had a session before coming here regarding this topic. And something my colleague from the Solomon Islands talked about, Georgina, when we asked about the influence, how has this influenced the way that you report? She replied to say that, no, I'm the one who's doing the influencing, not the superpowers of those who are trying to come in. So I think it goes back again to newsroom leadership, as we talked about earlier today. And that's very important that the newsroom leadership are well aware of where they stand when they're covering these geopolitical issues that we face. And this attempt to shape the way the news narrative goes. I think we'll move now to questions from the audience just to pull out some of these issues on geopolitics and the media and how the media is trying to shape the news narrative. With you have a question, please just state who you are. And then if you want a particular person to answer, initially that's fine, otherwise we'll all have a go. So is there questions from the audience? Oliver? Thank you. Thank you, Megan, our panelists for the very insightful discussions. I'm Oliver Novotan, the FDC fellow with the Lowy Institute, currently on circumvent from the PNG government, sticking a little bit closer to home. And I'm going to ask Neville a question. So you talked about the recent riots that occurred in Port Moresby. And that was a field day for media, both international and domestic. And you would also be aware that the government had tried to shut down the mediums of disseminating information by shutting down social media because they were concerned that there was misinformation being reported by the media having the freedom that they have. So sort of around the issue of having media independence. And coming up with that comes a lot of responsibility and the responsibility to uphold its integrity. So with PNG Media Council establishing the Complaints Committee, do you think that this is an institution that will help to garner more support from both the public and the government and to avoid some more government intervention? Thanks, Oliver. I think it's best to give a bit of background about that. I mean, so the riots have happened, but all of this and the minister's announcements of his concerns about how social media was being used by members of the public, it all comes under the move to come up with a policy for the media in PNG. Those discussions are still continuing. I think we're up to version four of this draft policy. And he rightly said that it wasn't an attempt to shut down social media. What he did was he stood on the only law he had to make a comment and make a public statement about the use of social media during situations of national unrest or threats to national security. The January 10th riots was one of those, it wasn't, it was one of those times. And the only law that he had to stand on was the NICTA law, which is the National Regulator for Broadcasting in the country. So I think he immediately backtracked after it blew up on social media that he was shutting down social media or threatening to shut down social media. His perspective was that he was trying to make sure that Papua New Guinea was more mature about the way they used social media. And I think one of the reasons why things escalated so quickly was that we had a lot of influences or people who consider themselves to be influences being very ill-informed about what was happening and the developments after the riots, immediately after the riots. So there's a whole dear spore of different issues in that, but that's where it is. With regards to the independent complaints tribunal, we have just ratified, reviewed our constitution, the MCPNG constitution, and that's expanded the membership of an independent complaints tribunal. It's mainly to show that we the media can regulate ourselves and can be independent in the way that we deal with complaints against the media. And is that complaints possibility? It can be those domestically raising complaints. Can externals raise complaints about how things are covered? Yes, I think it is open to anybody who's in Papua New Guinea and feels wronged by anything that's been published in the media. But it is specifically to have an avenue if say if there's a public complaint against a certain media organization, and if that complaint has been filed with that media organization, but that media organization hasn't really resolved it in a way that the complainant is satisfied, then they can come to the media council and say one of your members has wronged us, and we feel that we should be here. We should be heard about it. So another question from the audience. Can I go to this gentleman here? Hi, Hamish McDonald, former foreign editor of Sydney Morning Herald. I'm just wondering how you see the state of journalism training in the Pacific. Are your universities sufficiently involved? Are they good enough? Are they turning out the right people? And is there, are they a location for mid-career journalists to go back and focus on new areas and important areas and so on? I ask this because Mahalopa LaValle, who was a fellow here at Lowey last year, an economist, talked to me about the way the ANU Crawford School helped revamp the University of P&G Economics Department over several years. And he was wondering if one of our institutions or several institutions could do the same with journalism schools in Pacific countries. What are your thoughts? The issue about the quality of students coming out of university, especially in journalism school, that's been the focus in very recent times, mainly by national leadership and the public. And to counter that and to find out at least the start to a solution to that. We invited, the media council invited Divine with University and the University of Papua New Guinea to come to us and for us to sit down in the same room and work through the issues as to what their challenges were. And they were very honest and they said we are universities. We cannot be providing basic English and grammar skills to students that were getting from high school and secondary schools. So what they were really saying was we were just trying to do the best with what we're getting from the education system. So the problem is way, way bigger than just a dropping standards in journalism teaching. So in response to that we've proposed at least an annual gathering of media in PNG, possibly with some regional integration to have a media symposium of sorts, an annual review of journalism standards, journalism in innovation and of course a chance for the industry to showcase itself. If I may add, we have staff going to the University of the South Pacific for their journalism degree. We could tell that a newly graduated person, you have to keep on training them. So what I have asked the branch in Tonga of the University of the South Pacific, it would be better if they can have longer time for internship. Because when they come for internship at TPC, I could tell that working experience is really needed. So we have staff, two will be graduating this semester and two, it's the second year at the University of the South Pacific. So we are encouraging them to go for their further studies. And I could tell and even the lecturers, they said, you know, I can tell the difference of our students who have been working for their experience and, you know, students who came straight from high school. I don't even need some more exchanges over this way. Are there additional questions from the audience? Yeah, lady in the front. Thanks very much. I'm Bridget Fair. I'm the CEO of Free TV Australia and we also run the Pacific Oz TV service into the region. But I'm interested to hear a bit more about the women in media side of things and maybe perhaps explore a little bit more about the gender issues that you're facing in your various territories, if you wouldn't mind speaking a little bit about those. Thanks. Rosie, do you want to begin? Yeah. So women in media Fiji, we started in 2022. So it was basically, you know, just to provide a safe space for our women content producers. So it wasn't just journalists, photographers, videographers, you know, anyone working in the newsroom was keen to join. So that from the beginning, just a safe space where you can come in, you know, have whatever grievances. And Makireta is there from Pina who's also a co-founder. Just working closely with her and ensuring that, you know, the issues raised was also elevated to the Fijian Media Association executive in a way where, you know, the anonymity of the issues were addressed. And yeah, I think it's, you know, allowed them to come out and talk about these things, which is, you know, a big step for a lot of them. Next week we'll be hosting a panel talking about technology-facilitated gender-based violence for International Women's Day. So a lot of these things we've never had before, now that we are able to do together. And I think what's also important is the support that we have from our male colleagues as well. That's key. And we also, you know, try to, you know, invite them as well when we have our Talano sessions every month. And of course, I'd like to acknowledge Kate McLeish who's here with us in the room and Wim Australia, who've also been very supportive too. Could you also say a little bit about, I know that an area you've moved into is gendered analysis and news and, you know, the way in which when we're talking about climate change or transnational crime, that it doesn't impact everybody the same. And part of the news has to be how it impacts different groups differently, including women. Is that something that's part of this media association? Yeah, so we just had a session before coming here on Monday. And, you know, those were exactly the reasons, the issues raised by our members, you know, when they're out covering stories that also impact them. Where do they go? What do they do? So, you know, we were trying to work on perhaps tip sheets, you know, getting them to see local agencies, psychologists. So, you know, I think the thing that we remind them, you know, as women, you tell the stories better of what women face in our communities. So, you know, slowly we're working through these things. And I think the bigger picture really is to keep them in the industry, that they are safe, that they feel safe. And, you know, to keep them in the industry that often, you know, when they are bullied, you know, cyber bullied, it's their time to go. Yeah, we lose important reporters. I saw another hand up earlier. Down where? Sorry. There we go. Thank you. I was actually just going to follow up a question about the riot with Neville. Can you give us a picture of the sort of coverage that was on social media versus what the mainstream media managed to do? And as looking at the mainstream media, what additional resources or skills or whatever would they have needed to have been able to do a job where they played a bigger role in terms of being the source that the population went to for accurate information? Well, I mentioned earlier, but I referred to social media influences. I think a majority of these social media influences because of their nature of who they think, who they believe they are on social media and who they speak to, I think they, a majority of them weren't following the mainstream news outlets. So, the news outlets were up to date with all the developments after the riot started. They were there on the ground. They were there when the investigation was announced afterwards. None of these social media influences were aware of this, which was pretty amazing for us in the mainstream because if you're a social media influencer, you don't just disseminate stuff or say stuff on social media, you make sure it's vetted. So, we've been reminding these influences that, influences that the mainstream still does its job and it's still necessary. And it's the source of credible information. It's a source of information during unrests. So, I think a large part of what we were doing was probably putting out fires from people on social media who were getting posts and seeing things not improving when they actually were, when they actually were. Resource-wise, yes, I think all the media houses need a lot of capacity building. Rosie mentioned the exodus of a lot of industry knowledge going on and that's based on either journalists not being recognized for their efforts, etc., or just moving to greener pastures. I think the government is aware of the need for official credible information, not just for the public but for the media to access. We've had situations where either government secretaries, department secretaries, refuse to speak to the media and it's really difficult to try and get a comment. So, when newsrooms decide to find the news and go after the news, they're accused by national leadership of not following process. So, it's a catch-22 situation but the media does make it work and I think partly the reason for the media policy and the idea of that is, one, PNG doesn't have a policy that governs the media or says anything about the media and two, the minister feels that this consolidation of state government information I want to stop Avenue to get that information and to disperse that information to the media. It doesn't stop the media from finding information themselves. Is there any positive interaction between social media which is just growing and growing and the more mainstream media? Is there a benefit to having them there that you can leverage off of and that improves or benefits mainstream reporting? Oh yes, there are benefits and I think if you look at the when the parliament sessions are live and the people and social media actually following developments in the house and actually commenting on it and then looking and waiting for the evening bulletin to see how that's being interpreted by the media. So, there are lots of benefits to it. It's just maybe educating and something about media literacy that needs to be achieved. I think there was Anne-Marie here. Anne-Marie, okay. I'm a non-resident fellow here at the Lowy Institute and also I reviewed the last PACMAS with Georgina who's with us today as well. I guess I wanted to ask a regional specific question. You've all been talking to a degree about your national challenges but what do you see as the common challenges which bring you all together in terms of what you're trying to achieve with the media? We know in Australia that there are huge financial issues. There's big challenges of disinformation, misinformation. You're facing big turnover in young staff for a whole host of reasons but if you had to name one or two of the big challenges facing you as a region, what would the three of you say? I would say resources and technology. Rosie, sustainability trying to survive. Never? I think the media in the Pacific is the last frontier of true traditional journalism and I think or in every country every country in the Pacific our news managers know that and I think they protect that very well. I wanted to, I think Alex said a question that I might get to and then we'll come. Alex Rini at the front here I think. Thank you Meg. My name is Alexander Rini. I've just joined PACMAS with ABC International Development as the team leader for the Pacific Islands. Just to give some context to the question that was raised on the state of the universities providing journalism programs in the Pacific Islands. The honest is on the respective Pacific Island governments to actually invest in journalism programs in their own states. When I was the editor of the post-Corea I made a call to the last PNG Prime Minister, Peter O'Neill, to invest in journalism at the UPNG campus because UPNG is the oldest public high education institution in PNG. Divinely it's a better one of the two universities in terms of the output quality. When I was the editor of The Sound Observer until December I made a call out to the former Prime Minister who is now no longer in office, to invest in journalism as well as the National University of Samoa. Unfortunately that hasn't been the case and it's good to put out a flag, you know, talking about democratization and its impact on human rights and freedoms in your various states but if you don't claim ownership and put the money in a program that will actually empower your own people to have the freedom to express themselves through the media then it's a lost cause and but I'm not going to give up and I reckon that the PECMAS program offers this opportunity for us to work in partnership with, you know, media in the Pacific Islands and we have three champions here seated in the front who are also speaking the same language so I'm actually quite positive going forward. Yeah this is just a commentary sorry. Yeah that's all right we're going to go with a vision but I wanted to get one last question just through the back corner there I've been waiting patiently. My name is Trotty Ruffalo, I'm Professor and Chair of Social Work and Policy Studies at the University of Sydney and Adjunct Professor at the University of the South Pacific. What's the role of the media in privileging Pacific perspectives, the way in which we make sense of the world traditionally, culturally, in counteracting dominant Western perspectives that also helps us to reclaim our sovereignty as Pacific Island states and territories across the region. Great question. Who wants to lead out on that one? No I think we play a big role in doing that and I think we haven't really done a lot of that lately. I think it's also finding the people who are willing to stand up and who want to tell their stories but yeah I think there's a lot of work to be done in that area. Because you were talking a little bit earlier Neville about the importance of talking to your audience and context do you want to elaborate on that in respect to that question? I think the the PNG media, sorry I'm talking about PNG again, but I think within in PNG I think the media is like I said very well aware of the challenges that that the country faces and that's even though it's a particularly skewed perspective it's what it's what the media was meant to do highlight challenges in the country so that there are solutions found by by the leadership of the country whether that be in a national context or a regional context I think that is being done. Neville I remember reading something that you wrote that was about speaking truth to power and I wonder if this goes to that concept. I think we have to stick to strong ethics and honesty in our work. And how do you speak that truth to power? I'm just interested in that you know the powerful forces globally is there a way you seek to influence them and project a Tongan or a Pacific view or perspective? In terms of independence we really have to you know to be more transparent with our ethics and also our daily assignments and work in the newsroom. I think this will go to it I have a question which is sort of the flip side of Anne Marie's question is when you look to the future five or ten years to the future what is it you would like to see that might have changed with Pacific media or progressed in Pacific media? What are the one or two things that you have a vision for that you would like to see achieved in the future? Viola do you want to begin? Any thoughts? Looking ahead I think Tonga and the rest of the Pacific they have to team up with Pina, ABC and also back mass to make media better in terms of you know a more independent free place and like you know development of facilities not only you know back at home but around the region. Neville do you have thoughts on what you'd like to see how you'd like to see Pacific media or PNG media evolving over the next five to ten years to get to a more positive space? No boundaries no borders just in pursuit of the truth collaboration. Can you elaborate on a little bit on that? What does no boundaries and no borders mean? I mean what would that look like? So say if okay I'll to contextualize that so with regards to the inside PNG story that came out it was a very good investigative story. Now what that did was when that story came out we had other journalists who read the article and who made contact with inside PNG saying listen I work for this media organization but I like what you guys are doing I want to be part of that because that's the kind of reporting I want to do. Interesting but an honor I think for everybody in the audience do you want to share your thoughts? Yeah I think for me it's you know to see a sustainable media organization across the Pacific and to be able to keep journalists in their role working freely independently and objectively and I think more collaborations such as this where we come together and share you know our shared challenges and opportunities and also you know to make sure that it's not just another talk fest and that you know that we go back home and we put whatever we learn into action. Yeah so I think that's been you know I think a really positive end with the collaboration but I think it's also been inspiring tonight hearing I think how positive you are about the strength of the Pacific media and the capacity to withstand foreign influence to shape those narratives and to understand doesn't matter whether it's finances or training overseas etc to understand what your your job is what you're trying to do and how you're trying to shape the media to fit your own context I think that's quite important we do see a lot more Pacific faces on the news and I think that must reflect some capacity building that is occurring across the media because that certainly has been more typical so I'd like to thank our panelists for for coming out I know some of them were on a panel just before this panel they've really done their panel work today which it's kind of them to get back up and do it all again so I appreciate that we do have wine cheese and and some nibblies at the back and I think this is a wonderful opportunity for people to actually engage with people from the Pacific media but also for the Pacific media to engage with people from Australian media or those that we've heard from who are just enthusiastic supporters and have been over a number of years of strong media in the Pacific and strong shaping of the narratives on geopolitics but also on domestic politics so thank you very much for your time