 Hello everyone. Good afternoon and welcome to the January 10th special meeting of the Art and Public Places Committee. I'd like to call this meeting to order at this time. A little bit of housekeeping before we start the meeting, a reminder to committee members to keep your audio on mute unless you are speaking. Pursuant to government code section 54953 E and the recommendation of the health officer of County of Sonoma Art and Public Places Committee will be participating in this meeting via zoom webinar. Members of the public may view and listen to the meeting as noted on the city's website and noted on the agenda. Eileen, will you please review how the public may comment and participate in today's meeting. Yes, the committee appreciates the public's participation for those members of the public who submitted written comment those comments have been attached to the agenda reviewed by the committee and are accessible to the public. Members of the public are allowed one comment per item which includes written phone and in person comments, a single email constitutes a comment on an item so additional emails phone messages or in person comments cannot be added. Members of the public who wish to speak during item three public comment or during any of the scheduled items may do so by utilizing the raised hand feature or if calling in please press star nine individuals will then be given the ability to address the committee. Thank you. Great. Eileen will you next please take roll call. Member bound gardener. Member Azirian. Yes, your eyes. I see you. Vice Chair Jones Carter. Present. Chair Keifer. Present. Please let the record reflect that member of Pointes and member Nathanson are unable to attend today's meeting. Next item, item three, we've got public comment. We have no raise hands at this time, nor were there any voicemails. Pardon me. Pardon me. I lean. It looks like David Harris wishes to make a public comment in non agenda item. Thank you. I will. I apologize. I lean. Are there any public comments waiting? We have no raise hands at this time, nor were there any voicemails. Pardon me. Pardon me. I lean. It looks like David Harris wishes to make a public comment in non agenda item. Thank you. I will. I apologize. I will. David, if you could hold on just one moment. Yes, I pushed the unmute button. So am I being heard? You are. Thank you. My name is David Harris and I'm been a long time resident of Santa Rosa. And have served on city commissions. I was actually. For a time, the representative of redevelopment on art and public places. So I do have a little history, but I want to raise my concern about the climate crisis. And it's something that you would not normally think is. Directly related to public art. But I want to raise the issue that I believe we need to. If we're going to meet our goals and protect the future of. For our future generations that we need to be taking every action we can. To communicate to the public the urgency of the climate crisis. And that leads me to think that. Even public art to it should be thinking about. What it can do to motivate the public. To change behaviors in the interest of protecting the climate. And certainly knowing that. Our large source of. Carbon footprint is transportation. I would, I'm raising this question for your long term consideration that. How might public art be used. To affect the public. In the near term in the medium term and in the long term. In their. Use of alternatives to our long standing fossil fuel industry. And. And what that. Might mean I've just started to think about it, but certainly I do have a specific interest. In communications that can be made. To the highways and. There is a. Project in process for a one on one over crossing. That I believe offers an opportunity. To communicate. To multiple generations who travel underneath that it is a high exposure. And you know, the efforts that took so many years to get public transit in the form of smart. You know, started back. Before 1990. And now with the compounding effect of COVID. I would say we have to be concerned that. Will another. I would say we have to be concerned. We have to be concerned about that. We have to be concerned about what measure pass. And we just need to do everything we can to raise the visibility. Of what alternatives we do have. Because most people. Are living unaware of a lot of the. Alternatives that do exist. And I would raise this challenge to. Art and public places. To consider that issue. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. I have given you permission to talk. Are you able to see the timer? I do. And I am. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. I am the local chair of a citizen's group called friends of smart. And I'm. Taking up or David Harris paused. Because. Public art is an informal. Of course, it has to do with the aesthetic part of our environment. But David brought up the other aspects, especially environmental, but there's also economic. And Friends of Smart's mission is to help the smart rail and trail be successful. And that means getting people out of their private vehicles and onto active or public transportation. And this is a chance to do that by promoting making visible the alternatives. So this is a perfect place to combine sense of place with sense of what's out there. And I have actually developed a cartoon form of sign showing Snoopy and Wisdog riding a tandem bicycle and signs pointing to the smart station from both directions. And what a great publicity opportunity. Not just, hey, we're the home of Snoopy, but also we have a smart train that goes through here and goes where you're going. So I will send that to all of you after this webinar is complete just for your entertainment. And the purpose, of course, is to broaden the idea from just the aesthetic part of environmental protection, but also the environmental and the economic and our global planet. Thank you. Thank you. There are no additional hands raised at this time. All right. Great. Thank you. At this time, I'll move on to item for our scheduled items. Item 4.1. Okay. So this is for the sculpture. Unum is sculpture recommended words and languages. Staff will present the recommended words and languages. For the unums for the sculpture. Unum by blessing Hancock proof for installation and courthouse. Where the presentation will include the project background and collaborative process used to collect the submissions. From the community. I'm Kristen and hello everyone, I am Tara Thompson the city's arts and culture manager. I'm here today to present this item, along with Jessica Rasmussen or art specialist. And I wanted to mention that as you know David Ward has left the city and it's no longer working on this project as a project manager. Jessica has been stepping in to assist with this project and it's here today to chime in on the presentation. So, I want to start off by next slide please. I want to start off by giving a little bit of background about this piece, the community engagement and the opportunities for the public to provide input throughout this process. What's shown here are the artist renderings of the proposed design unum by blessing Hancock proposed and approved for courthouse square the north side courthouse square. We'll talk a little bit more about the actual design and the artist intention on on the next slide. But just to start off, sorry, go back, go back. I still want to talk about this one. Yeah, thank you. This project was initiated in August 2019 with the formation of an advisory committee who developed project goals, community engagement process selection criteria and recommended a draft project plan to the art and public places committee. The art and public places committee approved the project plan and the request for qualifications for this project in November of that same year 2019. And the project plan outlines the description goals, site considerations, selection process, including selection criteria, budget stakeholders and timeline. A preliminary survey was also launched at this time for the community to provide input on the development of the project. Approximately 250 survey responses were collected at that time and the results were shared with the finalist artists. The selection panel was formed for the project responsible for reviewing application materials using this established criteria, the selecting of the finalists evaluating the finalist proposal. Using the established criteria and selecting one artist for the project, then recommending their selection to the art and public places committee. The final had identified finalists for the project of second survey was launched just solicit input from the community on the finalist designs over 700 responses were collected. And this survey results were considered by the selection panel during their final selection process, along with the established selection criteria. Throughout this project information was shared via the city connections newsletter, the city and out there San Rosa social media posts print media articles, including the press democrat and public meetings. The Art and Public Places Committee approved blessing Hancock and her proposal unum at the December 2020 meeting. Next slide please. This is the proposal language that was submitted by the artist and approved by the Art and Public Places Committee describing the piece unum, meaning Latin for oneness or together, and is proposed to be a signature artwork that places on innovation diversity and engagement as leading values of Santa Rosa inspired by the unified old courthouse square the sculpture embraces themes of welcoming and inspiration while also relaying the Santa Rosa values of innovation and cultural inclusivity throughout its text collected through a community engagement process. During the day the sculpture cast shadows of the words onto the square using sunlight, whereas in the early morning and evening hours it will be illuminated by LED light fixtures mounted within the sculpture creating a soft diffused glow within the structures form. The community engagement outreach for the text on the sculpture will be collected through public engagement opportunities with a PPC to identify selected words that will represent inherent values to Santa Rosa. The dimensions will be approximately 12 feet high by 15 feet wide, and the materials will be water jet cut stainless steel and LED light. Next slide. This slide talks about the engagement process to collect the words for the piece. The beginning in late spring 2021 and throughout the summer. The artist team and the city worked together to collect the community outreach. I'm sorry to design the community outreach portion of this project. We asked key representatives to join a community advisory group for this engagement, and included individuals from the Sonoma County library, the city's office of community engagement, racist collective 100 black men of Sonoma County, the museum of Sonoma and the city's community advisory board. Two of the members also participated on the original selection panel for the project and brought familiarity and continuity with the project and those people were Jeff Nathanson and Leslie Graves. We asked this group to design how we approach the community with this opportunity, how best to facilitate the process to invite people to participate. And once responses were gathered to review and recommend the results to the art and public places committee. This group also looked at the most common languages spoken in Santa Rosa and discussed translating key responses. The engagement opportunity was presented both online via survey and in person which was collected through a flyer that the public could fill out and return to us. We also purchased partnered with the city's recon parks department to run a youth engagement activity through summer camps to collect responses. The community advisory group for this engagement also made the following recommendations to include a land acknowledgement on site to accompany the artwork on a plaque, and to include southern promo and coast me walk languages to acknowledge the land and the people the people the artwork will be on. Next slide please. Working with the community advisory group and drawing from the original project goals of providing the community with a prominent artistic symbol that reflects the Santa Rosa values of innovation and cultural inclusivity. And that is a forward thinking and expresses the innovation diversity and engagement of the community. The following prompts were used in the outreach with the community. The population survey on the left had these four questions. And the youth engagement on the right had these four questions. Approximately 400 total responses were collected over 300 responses were collected from the online survey, and over 50 from the youth flyers, and then about 50 more from artists. This team doing targeted outreach to community stakeholder groups. Next slide please. This first chart on the left shows the top responses to prompts in the survey from both the youth and general public outreach so this is a combined list of the top appearing words. Each time one of these words appeared in the responses either in the form of a phrase or a single word it was tallied and compiled onto this list. The list of languages in the green table on the right are the top 15 languages spoken in Santa Rosa as included in the city's language assistance plan, which has original data from the US Census Bureau. As I said before the community advisory group for this project also recommended including southern Pomo and coast Miwok to acknowledge and respect the southern Pomo and Miwok land and existing communities in Santa Rosa. These recommended languages were identified through a data driven process to be as equitable as possible and represent Santa Rosa's residents. There are of course other languages spoken in the community that are not represented here. However, as the data shows these are the 15 most used languages. Other languages suggestions have been made by the community for consideration. Some people here or have already read in the public comments. And I just wanted to state that as of earlier today the following languages have been suggested. And some of them appear in public comments some of them were made in other forms Hebrew or Arabic Japanese Greek and Russian. There are approximately 1000 total words will be able to fit on the sculpture. The recommendation we are presenting here today is to use the words seen here translated in each language seen here for approximately 380 words. And then to repeat them as many times that will fit on the sculpture. So we have a large sculpture and so having the words show up in multiple places in all of the languages. I think we'll provide a better experience for a viewer. Next slide please. So the recommendation we are making here today is to approve the recommended words and languages to be included in design for the Imagine Art and Old Cold Courthouse where project. There are over a few options for today, as there's been a lot of conversation about it. To approve the recommended list of words and languages as stated, or to approve the recommended words and languages with changes and additions as voted on and determined by the committee, or to table the item until the next meeting. The next steps are to provide the artist with an approved list of words and all the translations, so that she can finalize the artwork design and engineering that is the next deliverable that is due to the city. After the final design and engineering are approved the artwork would be fabricated and the installation is expected this next spring. So that's all that I have today for my presentation I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Thank you Tara. To any members have any questions for Tara or Jessica seeing none I. And you have a question. Great go ahead you're on me up. Can I ask a question about the suggestions for the extra five languages is this the time I could ask that question. I was curious to those just come in randomly from people that saw this and responded or is it coming through some sort of vetting that this would be the next five or something like that, you know that in the order of most found in our community or just like I just wondered how that list came together, besides the one we saw. Other suggestions have come forward from community members who have seen the list of recommended languages and felt that these needed to be added in addition to those. They are not from any US Census Bureau data or other language assistance plan document their suggestions from the community. I was on mute. So would you be able to pull up the chart, the slide that you had with the chart of the words, and the languages. You should be able to do that go stand by. Great thank you. A question I had was, is the intent for all of these words to be translated in all 15 languages. You said that was about 350 words. I'm not doing the math in my head right now but wondering if that is where that number came from. Yes, that is correct. If we were to suggest the addition of a couple other languages, would there be the opportunity to select maybe one or two words to be translated instead of the entire list. Yes, that's that the committee's discretion. I would recommend though that there's there's room on the sculpture so what what that would effectively do is if additional languages are added and all of the words are translated into those additional languages that that adds, you know, 100 perhaps or up to 200 more words. There's still room for that there would just be less repetition throughout the whole sculpture so that that's one way to look at it. I think the other thing that we are concerned about as well from an equity standpoint I guess I'm not sure but you know, we were looking at data in terms of what are the most common languages spoken in Santa Rosa as a second language or as a primary right. So we're looking at this. And I have to say you know we've had some discussion about some discomfort on adding languages based on personal preference or a desire from a personal perspective, because not everybody has that opportunity. So, I would caution that because it would open it up I think to anybody, but either I want my language I want this language, and then it could potentially open up to but how come I didn't know that we could add languages. So we're looking for something to land on one and two I have to say I think, you know, there is a thing of this being from 2019 that we could review the language list. But there is a second thing of adding. I don't want to say willy nilly but sort of willy nilly adding languages to the list based on does that personal desire. Oh Melanie or I'm you. This is sort of a discussion point because I'm my concern also is that, you know, every project that we that we have we set up a advisory committee. It's a broad group of people. They have specific criteria that they're working on their empowered to make the decisions and then you know if someone's not happy with the end result. I would people want to continue to do this if their work is disregarded. So I'm, that's a concern for me that you know people who are on this committee made the decisions we empowered them, and they came to a consensus and you're never going to get 100% of the people to agree on anything that was even even controversy about the selection of this particular sculpture so you know where do we draw the line between. When we get some pushback of making sure that the people who we are who are appointed are doing a good job and that we stand behind their decisions. I think that we stick as much as we can to questions right now and then, and then there'll be public comment after that so any any other questions I am happy to answer or right so or Jessica can. Thank you Tara yeah I just wanted to remind. First we're doing questions, then we'll have public comment and then we'll need a motion before we can have a more thorough discussion. Does any committee members have any questions about what our potential actions are today. I'm sorry what was your question. Does anyone have a question about what our action could be today, Tara outlined three options that we could go with, if we want to hear those again. That might be good for us to think about while we're here in public comment. Right now it's really yeah technical questions or follow up questions on the presentation so anything that anyone needs any clarity on before you, you as a group move into hearing public comments and then having your own discussion. And go ahead, you're on mute. I just want to ask a question again about the signage and the explanation at the site for people working is this going to potentially if we were to go with the plan that the committee has outlined and languages they chose based on research that we explained in the comments or the plaque or whatever we're doing that any process behind it, or will it just strictly stand on itself. That's a great question. We have talked about adding additional information to this plaque for this piece because it will have a lot of thought and intention behind it. However, a lot of times a plaque isn't the best space in terms of amount of space for adding so much information so we would be working on some kind of design for a plaque that would include some information and then either a QR code or a link that someone can get to our website and get more information about the project. I want to follow up I wasn't only strictly speaking about plaque, I did say that, but I meant just the mess the general messages around it, the way we presented the public relation that goes out and explaining. And then I assume a project like this is going to get some press is with all of this process continue to follow the presentation piece. When this piece is kind of unveiled to the community in a variety of ways that we we are planning on there would be some context provided in terms of what the goals of the project. We're from the beginning and how the process identified this artist and these words in these languages I think that's an important part to understand about this piece. Another question I have. Will the selected words when they are repeated is there an opportunity for them to be different sizes or will they all kind of be uniform throughout the piece. Maybe they are all the same font size so to speak, because of what is required for keeping the structural integrity of the stainless steel material by cutting out all of the negative space essentially which will be the words. The artist has indicated that that is why she needs this approved list of words with all the translations ahead of time to make those final design and engineering decisions, and then that will be the next piece that comes back to us for approval. Melanie. Yeah, so how long, how much longer. So what's the timeline here. So, if she gets the war, if the words are given to the artist tomorrow. What's the timeline for getting this project implemented, and are we on time, are we meeting our timeline. We've been delayed a few times for various reasons of the pandemic, first and foremost, but we've also had fires, and the artist has also had delays on her end due to fabrication issues with fabricators and materials and so there's there I think that our original timeline has been completely thrown out the window. But for a variety of other reasons, I think any delays at this point will delay but you know getting a sense of the timing of that is a little bit difficult. I think at this point, we are on track to install this spring. Probably late spring, and if there's delays with approving today then that would just push that out. Yeah, I mean it's kind of unfair to use our original timeline for the project which had which had installation happening now, like January, February so that's, that's not happening. Thank you. You're on you. Thank you. Seeing that there are no more questions or questions to clarify with staff, I would like to move on to public comment for this item. I mean, can you lead us through that. Yes, we do have two individuals to raise their hand for public comments. The first individual is David Harris. David, if you have been allowed to speak if you confirm your ability to see the screen that would be wonderful. Yes, I have the unmute. I've spoken the open comments and, you know, since you can't see me I'm going to tell you that I'm in my 70s and spent a lot of time in school and and worked around the world so I unfortunately had the opportunity to learn multiple languages that fluency in three and exposure to many others. And this is very complex. When you start talking about all those languages. It's a pretty daunting task be when you need to do it either a negative or positive punch out in. But that's what hasn't been touched on is their different writing systems and I felt he, how did I get to all this education and not have exposure to the different writing systems. And I largely think that everything's written in a Roman based alphabet and that is not true and certainly for this list of languages, the Mandarin Arabic tie and air and the South Asian and man. It's a plan been to put in a Romanized equivalent to those words in those languages or actually use the writing systems that they are originally written in. You know they're going to be translated so they're going to appear in the other languages but I think that's it's a very complex task to illustrate these other languages Korean and Chinese in particular. When you have this constraint of it being either positive or negative. But you know I generally I like challenges like that the complexity wouldn't bother me but there's the other thing of unintended. It's very difficult to model this well enough to know whether there might be when it's lighted projections onto the ground that you have a different type of maybe of graffiti by people blocking out things to have it project something other than what is originally there. This is a complex piece of art that that that people can walk up to and do things I really, you know, you can't imagine what all the possibilities are until it's actually there. I mean, the first example I heard of things like that though was that somebody studying on the East Coast and there was a big neon shell sign. And of course one day the S went out. Well, you now had a different word projected across a whole city and this isn't going to project that far but they're just a lot of possibilities for things that we cannot foresee being illustrated out of this lovely piece of art. Thank you, Mr. Harris. I just want to take a moment to remind everyone members of the public are allowed one comment for item which includes written phone and in person comments. A single email constitutes a comment on an item so additional emails phone messages or in person comments cannot be added. With that said, the next individual that will be speaking is Thomas. You are allowed state if you could confirm your ability to see the screen that would be wonderful. Hi, I'm having a problem with my equipment here. It doesn't seem to be. I can't really hear you very well but I hope you can hear me. We can hear you. Start the timer. I was hoping to be on the call earlier for the items not on the agenda I was also hoping to comment on this one. I didn't quite I'm not sure I heard all of the other additional languages, but I was thinking that Hindu, there's a lot of Indian people in the community, as I'm aware, and it's a very big country with a lot of people that speak that language, and it would be beneficial to be an outreach, you know, a kind of an opportunity. And then of course I did hear the other language which is Russian, and there's a great history of Russian people here in some of the county and the speaking of Russian and of course, Fort Ross and and all of that so I would hope you'd be open to that. And the issue that I was hoping to address on the public comment not on the agenda I hope that there's an opportunity for me to take the rest of my time for that which was about the over crossing of Edwards and Elliott and the art on that. And I hope that there's an opportunity to speak to that. And particularly, I believe that. There has been some proposals to put a bit of illustrated art not exactly something indicating the train of smart in order to support smart I believe that having been involved for a very long time since the middle 90s involved in smart that we are what people call a death spiral. The problem is that they paid too much for some things. And, and in the process, they may have to cut back service they've already cut back service because the pandemic they may get some funding which is great to improve the service. It may not come back to the service that we've had. And that's what they call a death spiral when the service starts being cut back in order to preserve capital and so on. And then people ride less. And, and we really have to turn that around. It's, it's a maker break. And that's why we need this on that over crossing and I hope you can consider that it can be made art. It's really important, and it's a life or death issue for smart really we don't seem to have some years, but we have a lot of resistance overcome. I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak. Thank you, Thomas. The next individual will be Paula Simon and Paula you should be able to speak please let me know if you're able to see the screen. I can see the screen. Wonderful. Please proceed. My name is Paula Simon. I am somebody who did participate in the outreach process and voting. I, I want to just ask a question about the languages I my professional background is in community relations just so you know. The, the list that you used the learning for the learning assistance, the language assistance plan that you noted on the screen, looks at limited English proficiency. And that's a big part of those. And I'm not sure the limited English proficiency is really on the marker of diversity. And I just want to think about how that understand a little bit more about how that list and those languages were decided. I see the list. I'm looking at the list. And I see that they correlate, but I'm not sure that that's really as broad as this community or as reflective of the community because just if you are a limited language or you request something or ask for another language doesn't necessarily mean that you speak another language or another language has meaning or identity. And I think this is all about language as part of identity. So I just want to make sure that when you consider the list. I noticed that, for example, Japanese is not on the list, but there's a large community of Japanese speakers in this community. So I just want to be mindful that the list is really reflective of the total community and not just a segment of the community that perhaps speaks another language as a first language. Thank you. Thank you so much for your comments. While the name is listed as Asher shepherd, the next people will be and shepherd. And if you could confirm your ability to see the screen please. Yes, I can. Can you hear me. Yes, we can thank you. I agree with what Paula just said. And I would like to encourage you to please postpone final decision. Until the next meeting you have so that the other languages can be considered seriously. Thank you so much for your comment. There are no additional hands raised at this time. Okay. Thank you, Eileen. All right at this time I will close public comment. I'll bring it back to our committee. At this time we would need to get a motion on the table. Before we can proceed with the discussion. I just, if I could chime in really quickly, I just wanted to suggest that given the public comment regarding the languages that one other option for today for the committee to consider would be to move forward with approving the list of words. And then we can get table the approval of languages until there can be more research or information gathering, and we can come back to you at the next meeting with that. Yeah, and on that just as you consider that, you know, there are a number of things that are true in our community anti-Semitism is true in our community, right. Issues that we're dealing with are true in our community. And, and, you know, as staff, you know, there's tremendous value in the feedback that were that we were given today in writing daily as we walk the, you know, the streets of our city. And what unity looks like for the community and language is really important so that separation of words versus language is good and this will give us a moment to go back because we can review the data. And there's one thing about data and the logistics of how to be inclusive knowing there are some barriers within the structure itself, right. And then we can come back to the committee with with a sort of more defined way of what the, what the languages are, whether it be most commonly spoken, or whatever it might be, but it gives us a moment to look at that in a different way. If I have a question. So I'm a bit confused. It gives the art and public places committee time it gives the community advisory committee it gives a staff who it would give staff a moment to that it's not just based on these are the most commonly spoken second languages or first languages or, you know, languages spoken within Santa Rosa. You know it is from 2019 and we can review what that what the criteria of the languages are is should it just be the list. Based on the, I forget what that list is called, but it's the language requirements for the city right should it be that or, or should it there be other considerations. Yeah, I think that that's what it does is it gives staff time to prepare alternate ways of looking at language opportunities for this project. So what what was our initial approach, which was to identify the most commonly spoken languages as self identified through us Census Bureau data in Santa Rosa would be to say okay that is from a plan the city drafted in 2019, we can look at that, see if there's updated data, or see if there's any information that we can categorize how people identify through use of language in our community that would be providing an additional lens of viewing this information. And to be clear that is your option. If you would like staff to do that we can do that so we're just giving you options on either going together with languages and words separate with words and asking us to review it that's up to the committee. So if our committee could view that slide again with the recommended words and then the languages of Santa Rosa. And then, because I think you do need to do the, or tricky for sorry the, the motion so that you can have the general discussion. Great. Thanks for the reminder. I make a motion. I would like to make a motion to approve the words and language as stated. The advisory committee took on the task of following the criteria that was set up and established. I believe they did a thorough job with that. And so I'm making that motion. Can I get a second. So we can have a discussion. Sorry, did we get a second from Nathan. Can you just repeat that one more time. Sorry. I made a motion to approve it as did as stated, so that we can have a discussion so that the words in the language that were presented are proved, and we can have a discussion if it is second. I'll second that motion. Thank you. We can move to a discussion now at this point. Would anyone like to kick off the discussion. I'll reserve my comments for the last. And I confess I can't see everyone on the same screen so if you're raising your hand. And please go ahead. I am feeling unsure about proceeding ahead and just pushing by all of this information without another look at the list and how it came about and if there's another list or I would like another, another pass by the staff so I wouldn't be approving both things today. That's my gut right now. So I'm just going to lay that out. I'm not sure what I was coming in. And I don't feel ready to vote it through. Is that the kind of discussion I can have right now that. Okay, so make sure I'm not saying too long thing it's a long time. Thanks for kicking that off. I can weigh in a little bit myself. I agree with and this item is a bit more complex than I had originally thought it to be when I received the information. And I. I'm not sure about approving the list of languages as currently written. I do like the idea of going forward with a unified consensus on on our words. I do acknowledge that at this point the information that we have in front of us did accomplish the tasks that Tara had stated of what they had set out to do. It gathered recommended words from a community outreach opportunity both online and in person. And I'm not the city for that effort. And as in terms of the list of languages from Santa Rosa that really was a point in time. Survey or capturing of the languages as reported by the US census and I, I am cognizant of how a focal point this piece will be sitting in the heart of courthouse square and I want to be very mindful of that that courthouse square was designed to be the living room of our community and as such it should be a welcoming and liberatory space for all of our community members and would be amiss if our piece, the piece that we're speaking about today had a hand in creating any further factions or disfranchising from from a feeling of a strong community. The piece is so focused on creating a sense of unity and community within our space. I do really like the words. Community, community, people, diversity, kindness, neighborhood, city, safety, respect. Love, peace, care, resilience, family, equality, equity, belonging and friendship. I think that's a great list of words and I currently don't have any additions to those or any suggestions I think that the public outreach was very complete in that. So I applaud staff. Thank you for putting this together. Melanie. Yeah, I just reiterate my point that I just, I have a concern about disregarding what the community has said that they want. And because that's our charge and we sent this out we got support from not support we got input from various groups and I, I do have an issue with six people or eight people coming in and at the end of the process and drilling this project, not drilling it delaying it so it's, you know, my two cents. I'm muted. My feeling is that my role here is to ratify a process and my, you know, personal sort of whatever sort of aesthetic paradigms I tend to operate on independently really have no bearing on this question of the process and we're at the end of that process and it's a yes or no vote. So Chair Keifer, I think what you can do is, you know, there's a there's a motion on the floor, put forward by Vice Chair Jones Carter. And so if nobody is going to put for and seconded by member, as Darren I believe, if no one will be putting forward a second motion or asking for a friendly amendment that I believe the motion on the floor stands. Hi Anne yes. I just, I see both sides of this. I totally agree with you. Melanie and Nathan, I'm, I'm a much more kind of as a personality I agree I'm going with my own get an emotion by pausing, because I have seen us pause before this is not, I don't feel like we always are operating on a. Well, this is the way it is and we're here just to kind of stamp like we actually do talk about things and we give yourselves a moment to breathe sometimes when we need it. And so I'm not asking for a long break. But I even sense from what and maybe I'm intuiting and it's not true but I'm sensing the staff wouldn't mind a day or two to kind of take another look at this and get us more info. I'm sorry I know it talks, it prolongs things and I don't like, I've been on committees and had in question I didn't like it either. So I hear you on that. So our next meeting is February 7. Right. So I know that's that's and that means unless we were to meet closer for some reason. Yeah, I agree. It's like the next standing meeting yes, and I'm not asking to add meetings this is not my motivation to prolong, although I'm just seeing that there's kind of a dead end either would go and we. We just close it down and we say there's sorry it was closed and it never was open, or we say. I just felt there was some question about it so that's what I was responding. Jessica, did you want to chime in. Yeah, thanks. I thought maybe it would be helpful if Tara you could remind us of what the different options were because I thought at the beginning you said there was one to one option to go ahead and approve everything with possible changes. Was that true. Yes, I said that the options conclude, but there could be more. Approving the recommended list of words and languages. The third option would be approving the recommended list of words and languages with additions that are made through a friendly amendment. And then I said at that time the third option would be to table this item till the next meeting. And then later I added a fourth option which would be to separate the approval of words and languages. So a second motion could be made today, or a friendly amendment could be made to approve words today and table the approval of languages to a future meeting, once additional information is brought to the committee. Quick clarifying question. When we're looking at the languages of Santa Rosa. There are a number in green and then the two languages in blue at the bottom we've got southern Palmo and coast Miwok would, if approving as read, would that include the addition of those two languages or what does that mean? Yes. The recommendation is to approve all of the languages that are listed there on that slide. Okay. If you approve if we approve the words just the words does that help the artists in the process. I mean, does that gain anything for them or did I don't think it does. I mean, she still can't do her final design layout with all of the essentially have to think of all of the words and all the translations as design elements and she has to place them all on a rendering of the piece covering all the surface area, calculating the size calculating all the different translations will be in the writing systems of those languages and so the different fonts required and all of that have to be designed, have to be designed. So that it doesn't really get us gain us anything. No, and in the scope of things I mean I understand the desire to keep this moving as quickly as possible right and not delay further in the scope of all of the delays we have this one is probably going to cause less delay than like COVID overall for instance or fires or other kinds of crises that we've dealt with so I just want to give the committee the time if there's hesitation and a desire to take more time to do this that you know there is not some looming deadline by which we have to complete this or we lose our chance to do it we have we have some flexibility there it's just a matter of I would I would say communicating with the community on what the expectations are so that people know that it is still coming. I don't I don't I'm sorry Nathan go ahead. The only thing I'm thinking about is, how do you open this up again. I mean, you know, if you go down that road of yes we're going to add in Hebrew, Russian, Japanese. But I think there were five others had, you know, how are you going to do that, and who's going to say that we're not going to be in the same boat in a month. When we vote again because some other group is feeling that they were left out I just, I don't see an end to this. I totally understand that that kind of thought or fear that that may happen. What I, what I would say is that as the initial kind of reasoning behind the selection of these languages were to equitably represent the most fundamentally spoken language in San Rosa, it did leave out other important languages to San Rosa's history or our cultural traditions so that that's what I would say is that it does give us I don't anticipate opening up any other public widespread public outreach languages to this list. What I would suggest is that at a staff level, and through targeted outreach we can come up with another filter of looking at important languages that should be included on this piece, and bring that information to the committee so that then you can, you can decide what to include. And I think that if, because Vice Chair Jones Carter I 100% here and this is why the list is what it is it does not take you to consider religion, or it doesn't take you to consider into consideration other things, you know, such as that. If, if we do open it up, it would be incredibly helpful for the, for the committee then to say, Okay, these are the kinds of things that we're thinking about I mean, because otherwise it's like to your point we're back to the same place at a staff, deciding an arbitrary thing like. And then hesitant to use language because I know that some people it might be, you know, more personal or concern is some people but say, you know it's this religion but not this religion, or this culture and not this culture. With to your point, you know, the staff certainly doesn't want to be back in that same same place. And so the list that we provided is safe, but if we do go back and consider it, what are we considering. Yeah, what are your recommendations for us to consider as a group. Nathan go ahead. I'm just wondering if we have a methodology established for proofreading in the various languages that are going to be in the sculpture, or is that on the artist. No, we have used a translation service that the city has a contract with to make sure that native speakers are doing all the translations we're not relying on any kind of automated Google translation service or anything. Cool, thanks. One question I had. If we were to consider the addition of another language, would all 15 words be necessary for reproduction, or do you think that there's an opportunity to select maybe five words that could be reproduced in multiple languages. Just thinking of the space that there is on the piece and how we have been told that it would be impactful for there to be more opportunities for repeated words. Just thinking of the opportunity to represent additional languages but also to keep the piece or to kind of think about how the end product will look. I feel like that gets into a lot of arbitrary decision making. However, I do think that that's a consideration that could be discussed by the committee if we come back to you at the next meeting with additional layers of information about language representation. And perhaps, through whatever additional data we can find it will make sense to have certain languages represented by certain percentages on the piece based on the population that speaks it or I don't. There's a variety of ways you can carve carve all of this up obviously. And I think that if there was additional time I think that that's something that we could provide some options for you to consider. Not necessarily recommending one language be less represented than others but at least providing you with some statistical data data that would that could help steer that discussion. My interest as staff is to retain the integrity of the process. So that it is not scuttle that the, you know, at the end was sort of new ideas is so if you do make those recommendations how do we ensure that we're retaining the integrity of the process. Okay, so consideration we still have the original motion on the table, which was to approve as written. So if there are any entertaining of an alternative methods that they would like to pursue with this, or, or we. If there's no other motion or friendly amendment being proposed, then I think the action would be to call a vote on that original motion. There's a motion out while the other motion sitting there. I don't really know the correct. Yes, you can. You can either do a totally new motion or you can ask for a friendly amendment, which the vice chair who made the emotion, the motion could either accept or reject. And then we would vote on the friendly amendment if she rejects it then you'd have to go through the vote of the vice as, as it's on the, on the floor. We can make a motion for friendly amendment that we approve the word list. And as the staff to reexamine the process of finding those languages and we can look at that in light of some other ones that have been proposed if we want to accept it we can just delay this vote. I'm not saying that I wouldn't still go. The motion is to is to approve the words only and to review the list of languages at the, at an upcoming meeting, but then we would also need the criterion which to. Yeah, that's right. Just point of clarification. Have the have is the meeting the guests at the meeting today. Is that the, the requests that have been made to alter the language is that the only instance of requests being made to alter the language. There, there were I believe six emailed comments that were attached to the agenda, along with the public comments that we heard today. Okay. Just further clarification how many, how many people participated in the original survey process. To gather words about 400. The languages I should say, we're not, we didn't receive widespread public input on the selection of languages, it was the advisory group that met regarding how to do this engagement how to collect words how to identify representation of the community. There was a group that saw the list of frequently used languages here in Santa Rosa, and, and approved that and then added the southern promo and me walk to the list. So there wasn't I mean, there, if you're trying to consider public input level. There was not a huge public input request for the languages. It was a staff and community advisory group discussion on how to best represent the diversity of Santa Rosa. I just want to make another statement just to just a comment. I still don't feel that adding these six or whatever if we took a moment to really decided to six, even if we didn't add them 50 times or whatever time everything else was is taking away from the other words. I feel like the addition could only be an expansive of the arms around the community. I don't think that's the question. Okay, is what is it taking away from other people who have not had, okay, yeah, no, I would just adding another comment so I'm not allowed to talk about that right now. I get it. Okay. No, you can I just want to make clear that the concern from staff is not, is not that it's it our concern is who has access. It's not that you add things so it's not that adding it where does it stop. I think that that is actually the question that came up earlier. Okay, yeah, and I respect that too. So I'm not trying to come over at the top of just, that's kind of my gut of it it was like can we just include everyone and maybe that's really not in light of I understand things can get way out of control and not be equitable and to set a bad precedent and all those kind of things. And I kind of feel like there's room and how could we make this more equitable and expand a bit, but it, I'm trying to do a lot at one time I'm realizing I'm not making it black and white. So, it's not very but it's difficult. So I guess I would just bring us back to it does sound like and you provided a suggestion for friendly amendment to the motion to approve the words today, and save the languages to another meeting. Right on the approval of languages to another meeting. So criteria which I didn't have I don't have a criteria like I could really put out right now because I don't feel like I totally understand how it. It was selected. And I mean I do, I just don't know if this would be Nathan please take it away. I just want to be clear, all of the submissions were were made in English, were there any requests for you know non English languages to be represented. Like, like, is that something that anyone attached to their submission, or is that a purely editorial decision on the part of the staff and the artist. All of the outreach that we did was intended to gather work for the piece in English in any language. We were very clear that submissions could be put to us in any language, I think we only received a handful of Spanish entries. The rest were submitted in English. The suggestion, or I should say, the desire of the artist of the advisory group of all of the different planning bodies that have been a part of this project to uphold the original goals of the project to represent that center of diversity and innovation, and to be a symbol for all community members. That was has been a major part of all of the planning and, and has been a big kind of justification for the types of outreach and recommendations, we have made with this project and so in conversation with the advisory group. It was determined that wouldn't it be a great way to showcase another diversity to honor all the different community members that live here by representing the languages that they speak and so that's where that came from that wasn't driven by the artist but obviously she wanted it to be a main part of her project. And her other artworks that are very similar to what will will end up looking like have she's done this before she gathers she works with the community she gathers words and languages trans does the translations and puts them on the piece so this was obviously what she had in mind for the for the piece. But I think the selection panel and the community responded to when she was selected as the, the artist for this piece. I think that when approaching how to decide what languages to use. It was, it was really just well how do we determine what languages are spoken here, and so we went to the data, and the data pointed us in the direction that ended up making this recommendation. That doesn't mean that that's the only way to look at the question or this information and so I think that that is where we are right now that if there's a desire to look at it differently. It would be helpful to know through what lenses you would like us to bring back information from right so is it is it cultural groups is it religions practice in San Rosa is it. Is it not you know what or what are the next. If you'd rather just go back to the data what are the next five languages that are on that list rather than. Yeah, what are the next five most common and see what those are like, there's, that's the type of stuff that we could really use your input on if there's a desire to to wait on the languages and have us bring back more information. That was very helpful. Thank you. My inclination is to move forward with the process I, you know, I think this is, I think if. Yeah, thank you nations to move forward. I do. I'm moving that way. I don't see taking this over and and throwing a new plow through another field that we're going to upturn languages and some other way I just don't think that's our work. So I'm, I can I ask the staff do you feel comfortable with the vetting process for the languages just in hearing comments and coming around, do you have a sense of this could stand and be solid for you. It's a hard question to answer I think that I stand behind the original data that we gathered and that a line is drawn where we said what are the top 15 languages spoken that that data is true and they don't feel like there's anything wrong with that data. However, I don't think that it is always a complete picture of our community and so my, if you want my personal two cents here I would say that I, I would take the time to look at it from a few from other perspectives and gather more information and bring it back. I that that's my personal. Thanks feeling. I had another clarifying question. When we see our list of languages, there are a couple languages that have a couple dialects or sub sub dialects within them, for example Chinese includes Mandarin and Cantonese. I am curious, would each of those languages be represented represented equally, or would it kind of be an aggregate of I might be getting too pedantic with this but I'm just curious on how the artist intended to represent multiple dialects within one language. We are still working with the translation service to make sure that they can provide all of the dialects listed, they've already confirmed Cantonese and Mandarin. Those would be equally represented as two separate languages on the piece. And then similarly for every other one as long as there's a native speaker translation that can be done. Yeah, does staff. Do you have the sense that you could engage in the kind of audit that you're talking about the process without a formal friendly amendment to Joan Carter's motion. To Vice Chair Jones Carter's motion, am I making sense. You can do what you're talking about without a formal structure through the process that we're engaged in now. Well, if her motion is not amended, and it's approved as is, then I think that that's, that's where it ends, right. Because there wouldn't necessarily be a desire to add more languages if it's approved. Right, so my, I believe what the process is is vice chair, you would have to either accept or reject member bomb gardeners friendly amendment if you reject it, then it goes to vote on your standing motion. And if that fails, then a new motion is brought up. And, and then that motion comes to vote. Do we have to, does the friendly amendment have to be second. And I, I think so. Yeah, you're saying yes Tara. Yeah, I believe that that Nathan because he seconded the original motion has to also agree to the friendly amendment. I would agree to that. I would agree to the friendly amendment. And then so the question is vice chair, do you accept that friendly amendment and if not then we vote on your on the amendment as it is, I mean on the motion as it is. And that does not pass, then we go to the second. Okay. No, we should vote. Okay, so then we're at this point then we're voting on vice chair Jones Carter's motion. And only if that, if that passes, then that's that if it does not pass, then a new motion is is put forward is that forward. Correct by somebody. Okay, at this time. I think member as Darren had another question. If push comes to shove and we are not given entire this is a little bit on, you know, winging it a little bit. You know, I think what we would do is talk with our equity officer and talk with our, our public health planner who's looking at data on between those two. I would probably rely on data that they have and then bring forward something on terms of languages to see if they're right, if we're in the right path or not. But I don't think staff would short of the way in of those expertise, the expertise of those two people. I have to say I don't. I have a conversation on it but we would have to have some kind of formal thing in which, in which we understand what we're proposing to you, if the vote doesn't happen that way, if that makes sense. So sorry to keep her. I'll let you call the vote now. That is. All right, thanks for clarifying at this time I will call a vote for the original amendment or site for the original motion. I have recommended words and languages to be included in Unum's design for the image for the imagine art and courthouse where public art project. Eileen will you take a roll call. Yes, chair paper. Hi. Vice chair Jones Carter. Hi. Member boundary. They. Member Adrian. I. I would like to take a vote. I would like to take a vote and carry with a vote of three to one. Okay, you guys good job. If we could just take a moment. It's difficult. And I just want to say. From my perspective of watching you guys grow. This is the conversation that we should carry forward in our next programs in advance. And I think this is an idea of the value of this group. And the value of your perspectives. And I think I know I, and I don't want to speak for Tara and Jessica too much but I definitely learned from this and from the concerns that you brought up and I think, I think, I hope that you all feel that you're able for future discussions on when we bring these things forward and as we're considering this in a new way, these project public projects in a new way. Yeah, thanks to everyone for being open about your thoughts on things. I think that's kind of challenging to do in this format and yeah, I think it's really valuable. And I appreciate the space to process in the discussions and thanks for listening and letting me not be able to finish thoughts, but it's helpful. I echo sentiments from Raisa and Nathan and and thank you guys for, again, being open to an honest and vulnerable conversation. We don't always know how to proceed and getting assistance from staff helps us kind of formulate how to think holistically about what we're having a conversation about. This made me think about projects moving forward and our involvement in the in the process when things are being set up but not necessarily just on the final end of it so moving forward we might have some more questions so to kind of eliminate some of the unknown parts of the process so so that's our charge. And on that note, I would like to close this item 4.1. Checking in with staff, I don't see any other items on our agenda today, other than announcement for our next regularly scheduled meeting, which is February 2, sorry, February 7. And I greatly appreciate everyone's ability to speak up and to offer space for listening. Thank you everyone. And with that I adjourn today's meeting. Thank you. Bye.