 All right everyone, welcome to the talk public money public code held by Bonnie and with Matias And they work for the FSFV and I guess you can start now So yes, my name is Mattias Kirschner I work for free software foundation Europe and this is Bonnie Merring who will also be part of the talk and We are here to present you what we have already done in the public money public code campaign What tools are available with the goal to enable you to use them yourself and get active yourself? so in school we learn that in Demo in a democracy we elect people for different institutions and then they they have the power over this area While in a world where more and more things are decided with technology and with software the situation might look more like this and so the goal of the FSFV is that in governments in public administrations That the administrations can use the software and control that software in their area So free software always gives them certain freedoms That a government public administration can use that software for any purpose So that no third party can decide what the government or the public administration can do with the software and what not They can always use it for any purse for any purpose without getting permission first They are also allowed to study the software So to get the source code and see what they actually the software is really doing To understand what implications certain things have to see if this is right or wrong What the software is doing and check if the software is in compliance with the laws and regulations they introduced furthermore software free software always gives the governments the Freedom to share the software with others be it the citizens be it the other public administrations companies wherever and furthermore that The public administration is always able to improve the software or adapt the software to their own needs So governments should never be in a situation where they cannot do a change in law in a regulation Because a software company or a developer doesn't allow them to do this So you are always allowed to do it you can make Modifications so that you adopt the software to your needs and you don't have to change your behavior of the public administration To what someone else a developer of the software decided So that's that's the background here As I said what we want to present here is what tools are available what parts of the of the campaign we already have and our goal is that you can then afterwards also use those tools be creative and Hack your public administration that they afterwards also make sure that software, which is published Software which is financed with public money will afterwards be published under free software license Which allows the public administration, but also each one of you and all the other public administrations to use the software for any purpose to study the source code to share the software with others and to improve it So yes, let's start with that as I said the the goals we already had for very long time that Beside citizens companies governments should also receive those for freedoms of free software to use study share and improve it and We lobbied for that for a long time talked with politicians people in public administrations But in 2017 we thought what can we do to give this goal a push Can we come up with a campaign to? to speed it up and So what we decided was that we have a campaign workshop about that. We invited lots of volunteers from all over Europe and spent one weekend together that's our Pet there where we noted down several ideas for the slogan we thought about what components we need for such a campaign what tools we need and Yeah, one of the outcomes was then the the slogan here, which you see there besides some others where I Feel a little bit embarrassed almost what we came up with But yeah So that that was at the time when we then came up with what we wanted to do what components We wanted to to have and under which slogan the public money public code slogan. We want to do this From there on some of us started to develop a website So we wanted to make sure that when there are people who don't have any clue about free software yet Political decision-makers people in public Administrations, but also the public the general public when they want to learn about this that they have an easy Entrance point for it. So we created this website and Our volunteers started to translate it in many languages. So we meanwhile have 19 languages available there. You see them on the button there and if any one of you is speaking a language, which is not yet listed there We want you after the talk. Please help us that we can make 20 or 21 out of that So yes, that that was the first part so that when you talk with people about that you can point them to a website the next step was that we Started drafting an open letter which we Which we want to send to politicians on all different levels So we started talking with other organizations developed a draft there get some feedback made some small readjustments to the letter The CCC was one of the first signing it. There are us here whom you might also notice when you walk around here and several of them were then the first initial people who signed it and the the idea there is that for Different elections for whenever there is a good opportunity to contact public administrations or politicians that we can point to the open letter We can show them how many people and how many organizations are supporting this and one of the Easiest things for you to do if you want to support this campaign is to sign the open letter yourself and encourage others to do so We are also especially interested in other organizations Of course, it's very nice if these signing process works as smooth as in this case with db yarn we just receive a merge request and Say yes, but we are also very much interested in Non-technical organizations signing this open letter. So not so much out of the usual suspects, but organizations civil society which also want to support this or Or also public administrations themselves So if you can help us there to get more people signing this demand, that's very helpful for us Furthermore, we then we also said that we need a short video for people who don't want to read websites who don't want to read open letters something very short very simple and That's the video. I also want to briefly show you No, no And for a moment our government would treat our public infrastructure like our streets and public buildings the same way It treats our digital infrastructure Our members of Parliament would work in a rented space where they weren't allowed to vote in favor of stricter Environmental laws because the owner a multinational corporation didn't allow that kind of voting in its buildings Nor will it allow a long overdue upgrade to more than 500 seats this means some members of Parliament have to stay outside in the street and A couple of blocks away a brand-new gym is already being torn down just six months after it was built It's being replaced with an exact replica at great expense and the only difference The new manufacturer also provides streetball as an added feature Meanwhile every night through a hidden back door in the city hall Documents that contain sensitive information on citizens from bank data to health care records are being stolen But no one is allowed to do anything about it because Searching for back doors and locking them would infringe the signed user agreement and As absurd as this sounds when it comes to our digital infrastructure Things like the software and programs that our governments are using every day. This comparison is pretty accurate Because mostly our administrations procure proprietary software This means a lot of money goes into licenses that last for a limited amount of time and restrict our rights We aren't allowed to use our infrastructure in a reasonable way and Because the source code of proprietary software is usually a business secret Finding security holes or deliberately installed back doors is extremely difficult and even illegal But our public administrations can do better if all publicly financed software were to be free and open source We could use and share our infrastructure for anything and for as long as we wanted we could upgrade it repair it and remodel it in any way to fit our needs and Because the open source in free software means that the blueprint is openly readable for everyone This makes it much easier to find and close security holes and If something practical and reliable was created digitally not only can you reuse the blueprint all over your country? The actual thing itself can be deployed anywhere even internationally A great example of this is fix my street Originally developed in Great Britain as a free software app to report view and discuss local problems like potholes It's now being used all over the world Everyone benefits because new features and improvements are shared by everyone If all our software were developed like this we could stop struggling with restrictive licenses And could start thinking about where and how Software could help us we could concentrate on creating a better society for everyone So if you think that tomorrow's infrastructure should be in our own hands Help us now by sharing this video and visiting our website Public code. EU It's time to make our demand public money public code So yeah, this video was actually something which was quite difficult for us so we had many people involved in the campaign and When we started to think about like what to put in the video. There were lots of people. We can't say it like this. That's too Yeah, too much simplification there and in the end we had to decide that it's just a small group of three people from us Plus the person doing the video That we came up with this which I hope that is now very easy to understand for politicians political decision makers and people in public administrations What we did later in the campaign was that we Translated the video in several other languages. So it's now available in English Spanish French Italian Portuguese in Russian and thereby we should in theory be able to reach over one billion people in their native language We are still interested to also have that in other languages so Costs for that are round 900 euro if you want to do it professionally We also had some organizations in other countries who were taking care about that so one organization was handling this for French and we also found several people in other countries there who liked the campaign a lot and then helped us Yeah, I don't doing it pro bono or for a very good price So yeah, this video is there You can use it and Then one one other component which we also which also people started using was that some Some activists spent their nights playing around with gobo projectors those things where you can play around with light and bro check that on buildings They are also I've already seen some people around here who may have been part of this activities and so they Yeah, the reason for that is that it it gives you you afterwards have some pictures which you can use when you want to bring that in the in the press talk about with the media and and also in general to to have some images for something which is very abstract like talking about software So yeah, some people spent their nights in Frankfurt and in Berlin to project messages on public administration's buildings and then One one thing we did was that with the open letter and the video we started contacting politicians for For the federal elections in Germany in 2017 So I know this in German. I will briefly translate it. So the The what what we did there was that we sent an email to all candidates who candidated for becoming member of parliament in the German Bundestag and One experience we made there is that the the feedback we received from politicians there was quite good But what even worked better was that we encouraged people to contact their direct candidates themselves and This is an example of Reply my mother received so she was also contacting politicians about that and asked them if they would be in favor of Publicly finance software being published under free software licenses and this was to reply by by a conservative politician Who is also secretary of state from that party and he wrote that it's it's very He's very impressed by the work her son and this F.S. If e are doing and that after the election He would like to have contact with us and talk with us about this because it's an area where politicians are also dependent on the expertise from from external people and So that that's something which is Where you see that with some very small messages short emails you can already reach people on a more personal level and And show them this video. I mean he was also in the in the email replying. Oh, yeah, that video makes sense I also forwarded that to our experts. Let's see what they say But I mean for himself first the older politician said like yeah, that all makes sense. We should do that and the same political party just a few steps forward a few A few weeks ago took a decision. So it was the the CDU and the CDU at their last party convention they took the decision that Publicly finance software should be published under free software licenses and be available for everyone Which was for us a big big improvement there Because it's usually it came from party which years before over 10 years Was more blocking? In this direction and so that's of course something they say now And we have to make sure to monitor this and to remind them about what they want to do so that actually Things are implemented there, but I want to show this to you to show that it's it's often Yeah, it's lots of people who have to do something there to to make a change and it could be one of the small emails Which it convenes is one of the politicians to say yes when this is coming into the party convention and they have to take a decision there Furthermore what we also did before this decision already is that on the 14th of February We always encourage people to Thank free software developers for their work. So we call it the I love free software day because we think they're not just a flower industry should have some benefits there and Last year what we did on this day was that we prepared letters and roses and Each member of the German parliament received such a letter and arose from us and in those letters We explained them about free software about public money public code and asked them to also Be more aware about what free software is doing for our society That was something again some opportunity to remind them about this topic and explain them what we are working on One other component we had was that beside the website and the video and the open letter We wanted to have something that when politicians or political decision-makers in general say That all makes sense. What can I do next? How can I learn more? That we have something to hand over to them first So we decided that we wanted to create a brochure with more inside text some more details about the topic So together with other organizations who contributed text for this we created a brochure for public money public code for the modernization of the public infrastructure of of our public administrations and this brochure is That's now available also at our booth. You can hand it over whenever you talk with politicians about this topic and say here something more for you or for your assistance to read and Yeah, at the moment, it's it's only available in English, but we are working on a German translation Together with a fit which is a public admin public body to help Public administration to modernize their IT so soon there will also be a German translation Which then hopefully will help people in Germany Austria and parts of Switzerland to convince more people about this again So and by that I'm handing over to Bonnie our current intern who Worked on this as one of her internship projects. Hello Thank you for your applause Yeah, all right And just click doing my internship as Mattias already mentioned I worked on the public money public code campaign and I mainly did this by sending out letters to politicians I wanted to get in contact with loads of Administrations all over Europe to get them to sign the open letter because so far we have only three of them And we want there to be more Yes, so those three are Junta de Generale de Asturias. I hope I pronounced it correctly Some commander up March and the city of Barcelona Oh, well, how did I do this? I sent out some mails to the politicians all over Europe I looked up their addresses and I found out if they have any connections with pop Software or free software in the town. I also did this with my hometown who I'm still in contact with Basically sent them some basic information about free software as material is already introduced to you And I also told them about the benefits from free software and the public administration like collaboration with other communities giving back something to the people saving costs for example through collaboration and Reducing dependencies also to force to support the local economy could be a good benefit from it and Innovation because you don't need to reinvent the wheel every time if you use free software in the public administration Then I ended those emails with a question like how is your digital strategy? And what are you planning for the next legislation for this? I also created a wiki page and our wiki so that you find there an example email and Also loads of information on how to do this and how to get in contact with politicians, but then I also asked myself Well Is part of the tendency only say administrations we have no we have more we have the universities for examples who are the entities Oh now I need to click and also schools Those all use public money to fund their team Infrastructure and also libraries libraries don't only have books. They actually also use software and Hospitals for example as well. Those are all Public administrations who use public funds for their IT infrastructure. I Also have some examples Currently as I already saw this picture in the video by the way There's a motion in the city parliament of castle. I know it's in Germany and don't worry later We'll have some examples from other countries and that motion in the city parliament of castle as the mega strat To follow the guiding principle of PMPC by the purchase and development of new free software of new software Sorry, so that they buy news of free software Well, there will be a vote on this in the mid of January in the responsible committee and in the end of Generate in the city parliament. This was already postponed a few times So there's still time for all of you who live in the area of castle to get active and write them some emails We already did this and we will be happy to help if you have any questions there I also have another success story From a hack lab called pica pica in Asturias as I already said Asturias signed the parliament of Asturias signed Later and they asked their parliament to do this They got in contact with their politicians as well and told them about the benefits some parties were more interested in Saving costs or for support the local economy and others very more interested in Collaboration with others and they used all those arguments with the parties and got in contact with them and Convince them eventually to be the first parliament to sign the open letter For this we have an interview on our web page and you can look up the whole story there Then I also have another example. That's currently happening in the parliament of Luxembourg There's a motion that says we invite the government to actively promote and support free and open source software and public Administrations and to publish every new developed software which was financed from public funds as open source software Currently, there are three at least three opposition parties the pirates who have two seats They see as V EPP who have 21 seats and dilink I hope I pronounce it correctly you you E who have two seats as well that are supporting this motion and Also Vivian writing a former EU commissioner from the CSV is spreading speaking in favor for the motion So they're all examples where you can still get active and write some emails and If you're now motivated to do this to get in contact with your local administration as I already said there could be any administration it could be a university a school or Your hospital or your library in your local hometown where you're from You can come to our booth and you find information material there You can talk to me and I'm always happy to help you with this and you thought you will also find information on our wiki page that I created for this and We are always happy to hear about stories like that Yes, our booth is in the meds backflash the drivers fear in the cluster about freedom in the CCL So I mean we showed you some examples what we already have there as I said before We would be interested for you to see what you can make out of that You should be aware that Changing things in the public administration. It's a steep stony rocky long way because for many many years they were driving in a one-way road and It's very difficult for them to make changes come out of those vendor lock-ins they they drove into and So be aware that when you reach out to politicians to political decision-makers to people in public administrations Some of them will not understand what you want to talk about some of them will Don't want to talk with you about that Some might say yes, but how should I do that? There are so many reasons why we can't do that So it can be quite you have to be aware that it's something which takes a lot of time and It will not be like when you can try to convince public administrations when you contact some there might be 20 of them Who say no or who are not interested in what you want to talk with them about but there might be then one or two? where you are successful and where you can make a change and In the end it's I mean the FSFE we are working on this many people in Europe are working on this campaign We hope that we can encourage you to also be part of that for some time to support us to walk this way with us to Make sure that all the others are proceeding with that that we can make changes there and that we can make sure that Public administrations will publish software under free software licenses so that everybody of us will benefit from that that other public administrations will benefit from that and I mean, that's one of the quotes which My first teacher wrote down for me at that time an African saying Many small people in many small places to many small things that will alter the face of the world so Please don't wait for some heroes some other people to do some changes to fix some things Which you think are important But rather Do something today something small start now to to do something there and in the end It's the sum of all those activities from all of us that will make a change not some Big activity by some person or one big organization. It will be rather The combined sum of all the activities the small things which all of us will do together So I hope that you will start today with this and now we have some time to talk with you about your questions Yes, looking forward to this. Thank you very much And also thanks a lot to all the supporters of the FSFE who made it possible for us to come till here. Thank you Okay, so we have sometimes left for questions you can see a microphone over there and over there you can go there To ask questions. Yeah With the microphone to the left. Hey Thanks first for your engagement for free software and to you and to the FSFE My question would be when talking to officials. I often hear okay, but we need this software now And if we do not buy this software from this commercial Industry then we will have the problem that no one else will develop it and they will just stop developing it for us or so I thought to us to very high prices because we want to have it open source. What do you answer to this? complain I mean there are definitely cases where something like that is the case so that they say well We we want to procure software for this area There are just two providers for this at the moment and they say well We know that there are just two providers and we will not offer it as free software So it's very difficult for the public administration to do something about that I think for it it depends a lot on the area there There are areas where the software has a lot of influence on our society Where we should also push Political decision-makers more to make this mandatory that the software needs to be under free software license There are other areas where maybe We don't have to focus our resources on this case at the moment because there are others where it makes more sense to focus on them to also find some examples where it's easier to To do it as free software so you can already show people what benefits they have from this show the public Administrations how how much they can benefit from that so that over the time they build up competency how to deal with that and can then also Easier tackle those difficult problems But as I said, I think there are Areas in which the software has a huge impact on society and on the people's lives Where we should not just accept they are well the companies say no but where we should think hard about if We should not invest more resources more money In this that we develop Solutions like that as free software that we also reach out to other Administrations all over Europe and think about if maybe resources could be combined to tackle such a problem Thank you Okay, no for the microphone on the right Thanks guys for your For your work on this topic The question I have is do you have some resource on positive examples of software that is already open source and used in a lot of Administrations that you can refer to when trying to convince people There was already mentioned to fix my street in the video for example and For us I will have to think with you, you know, I mean in in the brochure we mentioned some examples of Software which is widely used. So there are some some standards. There is There is on the European level the sharing and reuse award and it's it's something Where the European Commission they give out awards to public administrations who develop software Which is then also reused by other public administrations in Europe and lots of them are published under free software licenses So I would encourage you to have a look at those examples there I'm a bit I'm a bit hesitant to to mention concrete examples because one of the one of the experience we made was that Sometimes people they just look at what some of those projects and For example with Munich before there are lots of people always Munich. It's the lightning lighthouse project of free software and and then Everybody is looking at that and they don't look around what else is happening and then then through political changes Things are not going that well for one of those projects then Then people are so disappointed and think that this this one thing that's that's the big part there And I mean I'm convinced that we don't need those those big light houses But that we have many stars in the in the sky where people are doing something good in public administration So look at those those winner those winners of those awards look in our brochure What examples there are and then find those which which you like personally? Because they are from an area which which you care about and then use them to explain this Exactly was looking for like a list with all these projects to hand over like a list to To show that this is a big thing and not only individual projects exactly like you said So you don't have a list on your website Do you because it's in the in the brochure there are examples and there are also references to other resources like for example The European Commission has joined up which published case studies about free software usage in the European Union So those are very good resources to find good examples for yourself Thanks All right, are there any questions from the internet? No, okay, then let's go with the microphone on the left. Thanks for the talk I'm interested in working in this area But I do not know about any funding like is there a European and German funding that like will allow to Fund the company or just work and get money from the European Union When you have a project idea or to work on a project to finance yourself You mean that you want with your company to develop free software for the public administration Yeah, for example like that you you can live of it not do it in your free time after 40 hours to 40 hours for that so When you want to make money with free software in this area You have to follow the same procedures as other companies have to so there is a procurement process You have to make your bid there in the procurement processes and some public I mean our goal is that public administrations will say more often that they want to have Free software for this and that they don't allow proprietary software for those solutions so that when you are Making an offer that you have disadvantage there that you don't have to compete with other With other companies who don't want to provide those those rights to the public administrations, but there are We don't at the moment do anything there that that free software that companies themselves that there is any any program to To just make money with providing free software to public administrations because that would be something which is against the Procurement laws there mean there are some smaller things where you can get funding for example, there is There are project funding opportunities for free software project about new internet technologies Which might also be something for public administrations with the next generation internet you can apply it there for funds that's one thing where we are also involved to help with license issues and There is for like smaller things when it's very very new You can there's also funding from the the prototype fund to develop some software Which can afterwards be used for the public administration, but beside that I mean you have to go the normal way our goal is to increase the demand for free software in the public administration and to have also Regulation that it's very difficult to To procure proprietary software Thank you All right, then let's go with the microphone on the right again Hello, so you probably know that in Italy since June of this year We have a law that's required in most of the case to use reuse and implement Free software from the public administration. So somehow There's a law So we are entering into a new phase where there is the need to monitor the implementation of the law and to act When the law is not respected because almost no single authority Have the duty to control this kind of very complicated the software and public procurement law related things We want that we are going to implement a project that would make a Monitoring community around that but I wanted to ask if there are other Existing initiative that already entered into this phase of monitoring public procurement of software acting on it legally and I mean not just advocating for it, but Enforcing it from a civil society perspective You're from Hermes Center or yeah, yeah So yes, we are in contact with don't know with whom exactly from you But we're in contact with with Hermes Center probably okay with you perfect. Thank you very much for your work there I mean that that's something which is very important now that whenever we Will reach the state that a law is introduced or Party is making a commitment that we monitored this remind them about that and and see how this is actually going so I mean for Italy this law that Before there's a procurement that government did public administration should check if other public Administrations already have a software which fulfills this need Else they should check if there's free software available to to make To solve this problem and just if that is not the case then they are able to procure proprietary software Well, the thing is always in in political processes You you have a law so someone formulated something you have a decision about something and then comes apart about policy implementation and That's the part which is most complicated and where most policy fail So it's not so much that people don't cannot vote yes or no We want to have this or not. It's the problem is in the implementation phase And that will be that the hardest part and there we need the help of many people many Organizations to monitor what is actually going on there to then again remind them about that to read just laws to think about What other things can be done to to make the right incentives? So I mean some some laws are there they say it's forbidden to do this Others are there like if you do it that way then you have a lots of benefits so We have to see how how to make such changes in a way that it's sustainable that the public Administration is not so much forced to do something by law But that they that they see that they have Advantage has been doing that and that they want to do that and it's it will be very easier so Yeah, in that case saying thanks a lot already to the the Hermes Center Who is which is working on this for for Italy? We hope that we are able to monitor that for other countries as well to gather with other organizations, so yeah Support organizations like Hermes Center and and others who are doing this So if there are still no questions from the Internet No, then we'll go with the one on the left again. Yeah, thank you Bonnie and Matias and There are initiatives even big ones So if you don't focus your business one public money then Actually, I believe there's more money in open source consulting than in proprietary consulting we made this experience and No, can you come a bit closer? I Yeah, and There is and the moment Germany together with France is starting the guy X initiative Which was a little bit ridiculed because Nobody expected this from the German government and I Think they had to learn a lot of details about this initiative and There is a lot of money waiting to be pumped into the open source communities On the other side, we make the experience that the open source community is not prepared For example to maintain projects in a stable state for 50 years. We are talking About projects which are critical infrastructure, which means you have 20 years of Maintenance to guarantee. Let's say Python for 20 years and then normally this Think I extended to up to 50 years. So Would you believe that Python 3 is supported for 50 years, we have to change a maintenance problem on the other side the proprietary Software vendors have the same problem, but you find Windows 95 systems in critical infrastructure Which have not been updated for 25 years if I compute, right? So There is a big pressure and the politic has recognized it so but we have to organize business Into the communities which are not prepared to do business. So my opinion is you cannot do Anything without doing business even in open source and we have to prepare the open source community for playing well with the money which is available in A way that they can take it and maintain it in a fair way Yeah, I I think that's yeah, that's important Okay, so we'll just take the next question from the mic on the right Hello just a quick example of a project and Open street map. I think is a very good example. So it's a completely open map and I Think there's a lot of cases where that could be used in public administration I know all the tram information maps and Dublin have it and I want to ask is there a plan to bring public money public code to the EU level Because I think it's next year the seven-year budget the multi annual financial framework is going to be renegotiated So it might be worthwhile just putting a requirement for public code in there and also Could we look at developing pan-European tendering processes for open source and could we develop that so say? Five or six administrations from different parts of Europe would work together to put together a joint tender To say improve an open source project if their needs were similar I don't know had someone thought about that or could we maybe develop the policy of it to include that so, I mean We already are in contact with the European level. We are talking with politicians there and Also contacted them with those demands and are thinking about how to move forward there I mean you have already the sharing and reuse award by European Commission where they say The sharing and reuse should be the default for public administrations So that's something where we are encouraging them to go forward there and help them how to do this and We also next year we want to to reach more members of the parliament and think about how to how to establish this then after now most of the politicians got a bit yeah Understood a bit how the institutions work and now you can also start with them working on the content So we plan if we if we are able to to get funding for our next year We want to make sure that every member of parliament gets this for sure that every member of parliament will be When they are in the right working groups that they will be contacted So that's something where we want to do this and we also I mean we hope that by spreading the news Encouraging people to contact their members of the European Parliament as well that we will make a bigger impact there the Second question was about Let me Tendering at the tendering. Yeah, so different countries working together on an open source tender so sometimes in Something like that works that you bring a few people a few public administrations together and then think about that they share the costs and a broker your software, but in a lot of cases this also slows down the process and makes it very difficult and The failure rate is very higher So you have when you have seven people and they say what they want to have for a project And then they start with something and then you see okay. We have to make some compromises. It's way more difficult to find to take a decision with seven administrations Then if you have one or two so That's something which I'm a bit hesitant to do this as a first step I would at the moment rather encourage public administrations for their smaller projects to do this with free software and Gather some experience there and then think about enlarging it doing it pooling it doing it together with others because else I see that The failure rate will be way higher if you if you combine this because I mean from the experience public administrations This process they are often a bit slow and the process are complicated and as for software companies public administrations are not always the The best customers on this regard and when you then don't have like one public administration As a customer, but you have seven that's that's for us something where we are very yeah Yeah, it's difficult one last thing to the first question That's what I was talking about We also need you to step in and get in contact with Your representatives in the European Parliament because we can do this. Yes, and we are on this We are going to do this, but we need more and we need you because many people in many places Can bring big things can do big things. Sorry Yeah, so we have about two minutes left which fits quite nicely since we have one more question on the left microphone Yeah, thank you very much For the presentation and for the campaign. I think it's not only sensible, but definitely necessary and Coming back to your point about what we can do. I would like to Talk to some of the decision-makers or local politicians and I think the brochure would be very helpful at that moment You said that the German translation is in progress How would I go about receiving an actual sort of printed copy to take with me once that has happened You can go to our website and there you find the Contribute and spread the verb page and then you can order some you can also go to the public code website Public code. EU and there you find also spread the word and there you can order all the promo material And we will send it to you for free. Thank you very much. You're welcome and you can also come by at our booth We have some copies at our booth together with some other Advertisement materials for public money public code lots of stickers t-shirts bags and so on and Yeah, in in general when you sign the open letter. We also try to keep you up to date of what is happening When you do this then you will also get information when for example the German website is then at a German translation of the brochure is available Yeah, so those are ways to do there. So I think just one last word use those tools get creative hack your public administration there and Let us know what experience you make give us some feedback so we can read just our our tools so we can think about what else is needed for this and Don't wait. Just think about now whom could I contact my member of parliament local politician public administration and Start doing it. Thank you very much