 Yo, welcome back to the breakfast on plus safety Africa. We're still sticking with a conversation about Pantami, Nigeria's minister for communications and digital economy. And it's about the debates. Should Pantami resign or stay? And we know that at the House of Reps yesterday, this was raised and raised this before the House of Representatives, you know, saying that Pantami should definitely resign. There should be probes, investigations into all the allegations that have surfaced in the past week. But the reaction we saw from the presidency yesterday was a Bajabiamila, simply six states on the word noted. Let's dig into this situation right now with our guest, Jose Anini, as well as David, today he was with us for the last segment. Good morning to you, gentlemen. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Good morning. Thanks for having me. OK, beginning with you, Mr. Anini, regarding this issue, Pantami staying, Pantami resigning. I'm sure you've been following the news for for quite a while now. Where do you stand on this matter? I think we sort of have have evolved way past the conversation about him resigning or him staying. I think he should. We are the point where, given the gravity of his statements, he should be sacked and, at the very least, arrested and prosecuted. OK. So so regarding what happened, you know, yesterday in the House of Representatives, did you did you see that coming? So, you know, unfortunately, yes, we sort of have seen a silence from the APC political class and to be fair, some of the PDP political leaders as well. I think just because of the sensitivity of this topic, people don't want to get and brought into a religious conflagration. And it's unfortunate because, again, I said this has been an evolving situation and we have seen this move very rapidly from the opinions of a man to to my point, to my mind, a national security issue. And it was very disappointing that the House of Representatives, the speaker of the House of Representatives failed to realize or recognize the gravity of Pantami's statements and actions and chose instead to place politics over national interest. All right, David, let's bring you back here in here. What what does this really represent to you? Seeing what played out yesterday. Is it, you know, possible that they the national or the House of Reps also may not see how damning these revelations are and don't see it as a big deal? And of course, is this also a representation of what you expect from the Nigerian government concerning Issa Pantami? I think we are making the calculation they usually make, which is that if you ignore a situation, the Nigerian people will eventually get tired and move on to the next trending topic that this is just gist for the Nigerian people. I think, however, in this case, that that's a gross miscalculation because I think when you're talking about having a cabinet minister who has access to an entire nation data and I mean an entire nation's data. I mean your location data, your financial data, everything about you. This person has access to it. And this person has links to actual terrorists, right? And this person now has been implicated potentially in planning a genocide and it is written in black and white. Then I don't know how you expect that this is going to blow over. This situation is only going to keep on gathering more and more dots. It's not going to blow over. So again, some of the people in question, some of the characters in the National Assembly haven't especially struck me as the brightest people in the world. But one hope that at least they will be able to read the writing on the wall that this one isn't going away. People are not going to let this one go. We're not expecting a lot. Right? The bar is already on the floor. Right? If we're saying that we don't want our minister of communication to be an al-Qaeda sympathizer or to be a genocide there, then I mean, that is the absolute bare bottom minimum requirement. And we're entitled to ask for that. So again, this this isn't going anywhere. Right? I they probably hope it will. But this is not going anywhere. This has only just begun. All right, David, let's hold on and listen to this this important clip. I think you want to hold this National Assembly responsible. What of you as an individual over one hundred and eighty million Nigerians? You were unable to. The announcement was met. The man was presented to the floor of the Senate. He was screened and no individual out of over one hundred and eighty million Nigerians was able to remember that comment made to write petition to the National Assembly for them to act or not to act. So if National Assembly should be her responsible or the DSS, the people of this country should equally be here responsible. Welcome back. Just a quick reactions to all that is currently going on. I'll say I'm going to bring you back in here. And I want, you know, you to share your views on. Do you think that this is, you know, how Nigeria has always been? And this is a, you know, a clear picture of what the, you know, the dangers of tribal and religious leanings in a National Assembly are. Does this, you know, show you in any way what we might have been dealing with in a very, very long time? I think so. I also want to quickly address the clip you just had. And it's unfortunate that a representative doesn't understand that, you know, by nature of our democracy, he is there representing us. And if he fails to represent us, he collects a salary. He cannot turn around and say, you know, we failed to do his job. And again, to David's point, you know, it sort of reflects, I think, the lack of capacity or competence in every almost every sector of political space. That's why you have a character common on national television to spout the nonsense we just heard on an issue of such grave, grave importance. And I want to separate. I don't know if this was because I missed David's contribution. I want to officially say thank you to David's for his doggedness in pursuing this story. But, you know, there are two, there are two, two streams now, I think, in this thing, there's Pantami and his on fitness for office because of the things he said. It goes beyond his opinions, which is entitled to. It's now evolved into incitement of violence. And then there's the document that was was leaked yesterday of a J&I meeting. Four chapters of the J&I, I think it was Bauchi, Niger, Plato and Kaduna sat down and met under the chairmanship of Issa Pantami, the current minister of communications and digital technology to plan how they were going to execute a genocide against northern Nigerian Christians. I say alleged deliberately because I honest to God pray that that document is forged at the very least I expect the government and the J&I to come out and deny the debunk or explain what what what those minutes mean because the J&I is not an individual. It's the umbrella organization of of Nigerian Muslims just like the Khan is for Christians. So when you see chapters sitting down and plotting genocide, it it speaks to a deep terrifying rots within the Nigerian system that transcends politics, all right, I'll say ethnicity and and even religion. All right, so David, finally from you, you know, we see people here, you know, seeing that Bajabia Mila basically blocked this motion, you know, to to sack Pantami as minister. You know, people are now accusing accusing Bajabia Mila and the House of Reps basically as, you know, prioritizing party politics over national security concerns. Well, if this wasn't so, as people say, what steps actually should the House of Reps be taking on this matter? I mean, it's clear what they should be doing at the very least. Pantami himself should be someone that the very least should be someone to appear for the House, to explain his comments, to explain himself, right? The president himself, ideally, is who should be someone. But I think you and I know that at this point it's it's expecting maybe expecting too much for them to do that and for the president to honor their invitation if they do that. Because, you know, we don't even have a president anymore. We have an emperor. So, you know, it's fine. We've accepted that. But at the very least Pantami himself should be someone to appear before the House of Representatives. Like there is this very damaging conception that, sorry, misconception that appears to be prevalent in the National Assembly where they see themselves as rulers, not as representatives. So they know they are not really familiar with the idea of Nigerians demanding something from them and telling them, giving them instructions. They're used to people rolling at their feet and pleading and begging and asking. So at the point where Nigerians are like, no, we're not asking. We are telling you to do this. They are completely unfamiliar with this. And, you know, then you get statements like what that guy said just now where he was saying it's you, the people that failed. Don't blame the DSS and don't blame the Senate. And that's it. That's his mindset that is very prevalent within the National Assembly. So, all I can really hope for is that at this point, somebody finally gets the message that this is not going the way. This something needs to be done about this. And that regardless of party politics, which Bajabiamila is punch drunk on, that something needs to be done. All right, David and also thank you both for your time this morning. Thank you for speaking with us and for being a part of the breakfast. Thanks for having us. All right, thank you very much. And that's where we wrap up the conversations this morning. It's been a pretty tense Thursday morning. Yes, it has. If you missed out on any of it, remember to join us on our social media platforms at Plus TV Africa, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and same with our YouTube channel. Indeed, and we have a new YouTube channel. It's Plus TV Africa Lifestyle. Do check it out, subscribe and follow all our exclusive content there. My name is Annette. Felix, thanks very much for joining us on the breakfast. And I am Osauge Ogboan. See you at nine o'clock.