 Many thanks to everyone for joining us for this webinar this evening. This is a webinar series for the bridging knowledge scholarship students at San Jose State University. And tonight's presenter is George got shock. He is the director of acquisitions at the University of Illinois. And he will be presenting information tonight for everyone who's joining. This meeting is being recorded and close captioning is available. If you have any questions, please feel free to pop them into chat. And after George's presentation, he will also offer a Q&A portion. We thank you for joining us. And I will turn it over to George. Okay, thank you everyone. And so this is, well, I tend to be a little more casual. So I hope that's okay. I did prepare some slides. They're very basic slides. And they're more for talking points, but I will send those on to Cindy so they can be added to wherever it is you're storing such things. So you can see I got, it's very fancy. Just use the template that the university library provides us. And I didn't title it anything grand just collections acquisitions and technical services in bridging knowledge. So I did make some slides that I'm going to talk through. I didn't want to make some key points. I think the richer part of this will come in the discussion. So I, I'm not going to breeze through, but I will go through relatively quickly in hopes that we can have more of a conversation rather than just me talking at you. But let me go ahead and start the part where where I am talking to you. So, okay. Oh, okay, there we go. So one of my work is I work at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. Prior to that, I worked at Rogers State University in Northeast Oklahoma, which is a much smaller university with about a 3000 FTE enrollment as opposed to like 45,000 at Urbana-Champaign. So I've worked in the very large and the very small. And so the first thing I wanted I wanted to talk about collections acquisitions and a little bit about technical services. And in terms of collections, the, the, what the thing that I think most people think about is are the purchased and leased collections, meaning those books are obvious books, print books and ebooks. They're increasingly streaming media is a big deal in lots of libraries, public academic and otherwise. There, it's a lot of content that we as libraries cannot purchase outright so streaming media is an easy example I don't mean to pick on that too much. But if you have not encountered this in your courses yet, you will learn quickly that streaming media is a very hot topic in libraries and films are kind of in an emergent area. So, if you, well, many of you may not be familiar with ebooks as they existed, even 15 years ago, but ebooks were puzzling to people. So the first thing that got adopted as electronic resources were journals and serials, because you can put a lot of space by having things online. And many of you in your classes have probably searched ebsco host databases as one example. So, finding things at the article level is very nice in terms of electronic resources instead of going through as I did when I was an undergraduate, these large, very large indices or indexes if you prefer, where there's just like shelf volumes that you threw just to look up citations, and then you go look up the citations in the print journals. And if you don't have those there then you do in our library loans. So it made sense to convert journals and serials over to electronic first ebooks was a little later to the game. So we have sort of the world has sort of figured out ebooks now. It's not a perfect landscape and we can talk about that if you would like, but it does as at least pretty routine streaming media. So streaming media is the next area of sort of maturation for libraries and markets. And streaming media is big money so it's, there are more people for example who want to watch streaming film and there are who want to read an academic ebook as an example. So it's, and for those, if for those of you who already had an opportunity to dive into intellectual property and copyright film and music are extremely complicated areas of intellectual property. Because of that, it's very hard to just outright purchase things it's possible there are some things that allow for that. But as one example, if we take Stranger Things from Netflix many of you might be fans of Stranger Things. Netflix is not going to license that for anyone to buy over the long term because it would not be consistent with their model. That's not, I want to say we'll get to this later but I want to say that's not a bad thing it's it's fair for Netflix to generate revenues. This is a hard sell for people. Some you'll encounter a lot of librarians who want everything to be free and open access. And that's a great idea in the world if we ever get there. But the reality is it's, it's fair for the actors, the producers, the directors for Netflix to expect to make money off of their works. Those of you, I suspect there are at least some of you who are musicians or performers of some kind understand this. Now, not everybody gets to be Beyonce and get tons of money, but it's fair to if you're creating an artwork or creating entertainment or some learning product to be able to recover your costs at the very least and to profit in a perfect world, understand a little more cooperative with libraries, but I just wanted to underscore that it is not bad in and of itself for publishers and content providers to make money, at least in my view and it's actually within the early effects we respect intellectual property. Oops, sorry about that. We'll get, what have I done here. Okay, and we'll get to that more in a moment. So the purchased and leased the products that you buy and or lease, such as EBSCO host databases. For the least example. Those are what people tend to think about in terms of collections. For those of you who we hope will be able to find an opportunity to serve your tribal communities. I am going to encourage you to read to realize that there are institutionally created collections as well so those are not necessarily acquired in the same kind of way. Archives are a good example in any institution archives first and foremost are the record keepers. So for example, Illinois, the university archives, their first and foremost mandate is to be the record keeper for the University of Illinois. Now they do hold other archives, and they do sometimes contract for that for cost recovery. For example, Wendell in Brooks, the poet was very big in Illinois as was Roger Ebert, who attended the University of Illinois is a film was a film critic. We hold those papers at Illinois. And so the university did bid on those as a right to hold those papers and curate them over time. But for the most part, if you start with the premise that archives are being built off of records that are being generated by your institution and within tribal libraries, for example, tribal libraries, archives and museums. They're also often the same entity, not always, but those archives are tend to be generated by the tribal government because you need a record keeper and a record holder for the tribal documents. So those are institutionally created. And then there's what I call the library created and curated. Now some of these are digital collections and the best example I could come up with is. So, so in a lot of libraries, they're digitizing things that libraries also at Illinois, there's a big newspaper project. Well, in tribal libraries, newspapers, newsletters, things that communicated with the community are an example of a collection, even though it may not already be curated and collated as such. But it is a collection. And so I suppose technically you could say it's under institutionally created. But to my mind, there are cases where libraries intentionally create and curate collections that would otherwise not be regarded as collections. And given the focus of the program that I believe the bridging knowledge scholars have, many of you are focusing on digital collections. So this should resonate with a lot of you at this point in your, in your degree program is that there's lots of things that can be digitized. Prioritization of digitization, right, that's a mouthful is also an ongoing challenge. And I'm sure that many of you could tell me more about that than I know, but just know that there are things within, for example, the library itself, or the library itself may be the prime mover to identify things that could be a collection that can be digitized. And at least it turned into a collection as it were. Okay. And so this, I hope this doesn't feel too disjointed, but I wanted to touch on the things that drive collections in general. Resource sharing is a big principle in libraries within tribal libraries, most tribal libraries and tribal college libraries that I know participate in some level of interlibrary loan. Now they're probably more borrowers than lenders, the interlibrary loan is pretty straightforward. That one, most of you have encountered if you have not, then I encourage you in your research to find an article, a book or some other product that you would like to research or your for writing your papers that is not available to you at San Jose State, so that you can utilize interlibrary loan. This is a very powerful thing. And it's something that I'm particularly love about libraries because it's, it's very pragmatic as someone who's overseeing interlibrary loan. It's, you know, you're, I collected boxes we had bubble wrap we had tape guns, but then it's also this idea of the broader collection that's nationwide or even internationally held to share resources that enable at the sort of lofty level and enables scholarly inquiry, but I don't think there's anything that's as a good librarian I don't want to diminish the fact that you know a child who wants to read a children's book from another library is no less important than someone who's a premier scholar, because they're both clearly forms of investigation. I keep. Okay, let me go back here. They're both critical constituents within your library. And, you know, a child who's five years old as a robust research agenda as it were, as much so as a worldwide scholar and in fact probably a higher stakes one. Okay, thank you, Cindy. I also wanted to talk about consortia. So consortia may not may or may not figure large in your life, depending on what library you end up in. One of my fantasies in life is that there eventually becomes a tribal libraries consortia. The tricky part is what does that consortia do so consortia or the singular is consortium. So, where you'll encounter these. They can take several different forms. And I'm, I have the benefit of being at Illinois where we have something called the, the Carly consortium which is the consortium of academic and research libraries in Illinois. So in Illinois, the academic libraries have their own consortium. And what that consortium provides is sometimes shared licensing of electronic resources. So, EBSCO host, for example, is a set of databases at a sort of base level that runs through our Carly consortium. Now, some libraries, including ours, choose to upgrade beyond what is provided at the state level. But that's one role of consortia. Another role that some consortia can provide. So for example, they're, oh, gosh, what is that? Amigos, Amigos Library Consortium. They do a lot with training. So they'll provide OCLC training for cataloging. They'll provide training on all kinds of things. They do a conference every year. When I was at Roger State University, I took a free training. It was free to us because we were part of the Amigos Consortium to learn about XML for the first time. So that is a consortium that focuses on training. Illinois is also part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance. And there are some other large consortia around the country that do a lot with negotiating different resource deals and also try and create what we call shared collections. Let's see. And thank you, Cindy, for putting in the Amigos link. So consortia are another form of research sharing that goes perhaps a bit beyond in a library loan because they might share programs. They might share services. They like to share training opportunities and professional development. And sometimes they share, they engage in shared collections. So shared collections. So large research libraries. Illinois, as I mentioned, is part of the Big Ten Academic Alliance. Actually, both the University of California system and the Cal State system are systems, but they also, at some level, which all of you can tell me more about than I can tell you about, constitute a kind of shared collections. Now, I can't speak to that in great detail because I don't know a lot about both the Cal UC system and the Cal State system. But at some level, they're operating a system. So they have their own unique collections for each institution. But I know, for example, that California is very robust in terms of shared licensing. Now, exactly how that folds everybody in. I don't know. So you would have to tell me at San Jose State, and this might be a good side research project for you is to find out what different consortia San Jose State is involved in and what benefits accrue to San Jose State because of that. Sorry, I keep messing this up. Okay. One second here. But share collections can be as lofty. So for example, within the Big Ten, what we're talking about now is trying to do a shared collection around Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern materials. So the different Big Ten libraries are getting together and saying, well, if they haven't finalized this, but they're saying things like, well, if you collect primary, primarily Arabic materials from Saudi Arabia or Lebanon, that's great. And we can collect minority languages from these other countries at a different institution. So that's kind of the sort of loftiest level. Public library branches like Cindy's are a good example. They may not sit around talking a lot about shared collections, but ultimately that is what they are. I live in Champaign Urbana, where we have three branches, Champaign Urbana, and then one additional branch that sort of constitutes a shared collection because I can, I live in Champaign on the Champaign side of the dividing line, but I can request things from Urbana. And it's very nice for me because all I have to do is log in and say, here's a book I want. I want to put it on the whole shelf. They'll email me and then I go pick it up on my way home, whichever branch it's at. So that is a kind of shared collection. Then I added a third thing here. And this is a little bit sneaky of me because it's, I wanted to talk about the cousin libraries. I don't know if you've had an opportunity to talk about that yet. Aaron LaFront Boyz at Blackfeet Community College has created something and thank you. I'll get to the chat. I see things going on in chat, but I'll look at that one second here. Has created something called the cousin libraries. And I'm particularly fond of this one because Aaron is sort of a luminary within the tribal library world. But also because it's now, I don't think they're actually doing anything with collections, but I included it one to just be able to highlight Aaron and some work she's doing. And to say that it presents opportunities should Aaron wish to pursue that with her cousin libraries to do collections work and it could be as simple as just reciprocal borrowing. Like if you're in various libraries have this the, when I was at Roger State University, we had something set up with the local public library so that patrons at either library could check out materials at the other library without going through a big, you know, registering for a community card and all that kind of thing. But Aaron LaFront Boyz set up these relationships called cousin libraries. So, this is definitely true for me, but Aaron was saying she doesn't have siblings but she definitely understands cousins because in her life she has tons of cousins. Now, I'm not saying every tribal community is the same but within tribal communities there tend to be a lot of cousins, we all seem to have cousins all over the place. So, Aaron wanted to establish cousin libraries. Now, I think in her case it's more of a professional development, sort of just let's get together and be friendly and talk about libraries. I know they've done programming things together and a little bit of services. I don't know that they've touched on collections, but this is an opportunity if Aaron and the other libraries wanted to pursue it to do something with. I really need to stop touching my mouse to pursue something in that arena. Okay, I'm going to pause here and look at something. Let me see what's in here. So the boss Aaron is saying the Boston Library Consortium includes public academic and special libraries in the Boston area. They all contribute to a single job board. Yeah, that's another opportunity or another instance where consortia can do a lot of things. So Simmons is obviously in the areas. It's one of the library schools in the area, but thank you Aaron for posting that. And Boston is one of those areas of the country that's a little bit spoiled because there's so many great institutions and libraries in a small area, and then many of them have overlapping relationships. So for example, Harvard has relationships with MIT, which is across the river in Cambridge with MIT and is part of something called the IV plus consortium. Let me see. That's from Aaron. And then Susan, thanks you. Let's do the rest of us. And then Aaron also has posted something about the online archive of California. Thank you for sharing that. And then Cindy is also commenting on the cousin library concept. Yes, Boston tends to be spoiled, but so does the University of Chicago who likes to dip their toe into lots of different consortial arrangements because they are both in the Big Ten Academic Alliance as well as this thing called the IV plus, which is the IV league schools plus a few other private universities who are working on consortial projects as well. So I put this slide here about intellectual property. We talked about this because within collections, this is something that I, I myself before I went to library school did not really think anything at all about, you know, for example, you know, when blogs first became a thing, I don't have an active blog right now. But like everyone, I started 15 different blogs at one point and I was freely posting images from other people, which as we now, which I now know is copyright violation. Probably now there's depending on how you use the image may not be a violation of copyright, and we won't go into the ins and outs of copyright. But so, you know, I had not thought about copyright and like a lot of people, this is the hard part, right, because undergraduate student doesn't typically think, okay, I'm going to download this free album from, I don't know, what I keep going to Beyonce really need to get to broaden my horizons, but I'm going to stick with Beyonce, someone downloads a free Beyonce album. And to their mind, they're like, well, Beyonce has plenty of money, her record company has plenty of money, why are we worried about Beyonce losing money. Well, that's fine for Beyonce, it's different if someone is, you know, a local or regional performer, and they're, you know, they're not making this sort of money that Beyonce is that that hits a little closer to home. Now, what I would be interested to know if any of you are tuned to is, so with the world of Instagram and tick tock, all of a sudden people in their 18, you know, and late teens and early 20s now very much value content and they very much value proprietary content. Now they probably did before, but tick tock and Instagram or platforms where everybody sort of is very into their own individual content. And if they're looking to monetize that then that helps. In some ways helps them understand that, you know, if they're stealing from Beyonce, they're technically stealing from Beyonce. And if they're stealing from someone who's a lesser known artist who isn't making that kind of money. Then maybe this is the, the entree that helps that conversation begin. Now, again, I don't want to go too much into copyright because there's lots of complaints about copyright not being perfect. Many of you may have already steeped yourselves enough into that to know more than I do. I've learned about copyright multiple times and then if I don't have to use it over and over then I forget the details. It's very complex, but in short, as librarians professionally within the ALA ethics, we agree to uphold intellectual property. Now you're all in a unique position in a sense, but also not. So the discussion that I have from time to time with people. There's indigenous intellectual property and, and as many of you know, some things are held by the community as opposed to an individual, but also not everything or, for example, a storyteller as a sort of right to a story in a way that isn't recognized by US copyright. Also, there's sacred knowledge, some of which is not appropriate to share with everybody. And it can be, so this is the part where it gets tricky. And I just encourage all of you to embrace this because I've talked to so many people and, and finally at one point I got frustrated with someone I can't even remember who it was. Now, and I said, look, it's not like it's all, sometimes it is, sometimes it's mystical sacred knowledge, but it's not all that it's this super secret mystical sacred knowledge all the time shrouded in, you know, sage smoke or whatever. Sometimes it's just as simple as we've been around for a very long time and we've got protocols for handling our stuff and it's our stuff, not yours. So the best example I can give you is a tribal librarian was talking about the papers of the chief in that community, and the possibility that the tribal government had talked about giving them to a local university. And that librarian was lobbying very hard to keep them in the community precisely because it's not that there's anything super sacred or mystical in the, in the minutes of tribal governance, but it is the case that it is the, the intellectual property of the community. So it should remain with the community. So, these are things that you're going to encounter over and over. I can't say that I have a perfect answer to responding to them, but I think that as indigenous people, perhaps we're in a unique. It's like an 18 year old who just wants to download some album somewhere, because we understand the value of knowledge now I'm not trying to oversell this and say that we're the only communities in the world who had this. But it is the case that knowledge is different in our communities, then it is in the broader culture, and it doesn't always matter who's making what money or who owns what rights. It's sometimes a matter of communal respect. So I just encourage you to lean into that and be prepared to talk about that because I have never found a good way of explaining it without trying to make it sound like it's this ethereal mythical thing or mystical thing which again sometimes it is but very often it's just it's our stuff. Let me look at the chat here. Okay, so Alaska. Yeah, Alaska has a rich consortial environment as well. Thank you, Lauren. Yeah, and that's a good point. It's gender neutral connection. And then thank you for the Cindy for the elder citations lib guide. That's another the elder citations. That's an entirely. That's related but that's a completely separate issue is acknowledging sources of validity and it's been a long time since I've been library school I think there's a better phrasing for that and you can tell me what it is but no authoritative source can be an elder in a way that it is not always recognized in other communities. Okay, I'm going to move on from that. Okay, let's see. I want to I have not done a good job of keeping track of the time here. Okay, so I wanted to talk a little bit about acquisitions because that's my day to day work. So my role in my day to day work is really managing a lot of funds, but one of the roles of acquisitions is to identify the source of money. This can be as simple as someone sends you they want to order a book and then you're deciding do you want to order it from Amazon or Libras or a books or somewhere else. That's going to vary considerably by institution, what relationships you have established and whether or not you have contractual obligations to a primary vendor. Relationships is very important. So obviously I'm not building relationships with the Amazon Amazon does not care who I am, but with a lot of our vendors. I spend a lot of time. I spent a lot of time talking to them and understanding how things work on their side so I know what they're, they can provide us as a service and what they cannot. And part of that goes to honoring their proprietary work as I mentioned earlier with intellectual property vendors create proprietary work. So for example, if you go to one vendor and they do a lot of analysis for you to figure out things that you don't hold but may wish to purchase in a perfect scenario you don't necessarily want to go to another vendor and buy those things because why you're kind of abusing their proprietary work if you take a list and say, OK, now we're going to go buy it somewhere else as one example But building relationships is key because after you've built strong relationships, then you can have conversations with vendors that go beyond just we want to buy stuff from you because many of the vendors either they do have a library background or they have worked with libraries and they have insights of their own that they're willing and able to share with you. And then because my work focuses on those purchases, sorry, purchased and leased collections we talked about. I did just want to mention something called generally accepted accounting principles. Now you do not need to go out and become expert accountants if you choose to that's going to make you a better acquisitions librarian, but probably in a lot of your roles you'll have enough to think about without worrying about that. I only mentioned it here just so that you know in any institution, whether it's a tribal government, a large university a small university. It's going to be a little more complicated and a little more process or individual card and we're happy in life. There are a lot of steps and processes with paying for collections and those tend to be rooted in someone in your institution. Hopefully not usually you hopefully there's usually someone within a government to be responsible for expenditures and oftentimes they're looking at something called generally accepted accounting principles. If you know that exists that's probably more than a lot of people do, but just know that when they have these processes in place. It can be hard as a as a new librarian sometimes you can get frustrated with the bureaucracy. Just know that the bureaucracy in some cases is a necessary thing and actually provide some benefits like making sure that nobody can come back. For example and accuse you of siphoning off funds or whatever the case maybe it can protect you as much as it can frustrate you as my only point there. Okay, yeah, there's the recruit move. I can never say that right my her to database for access protection of sensitive materials. Okay, thank you. And, oh, thank you for putting in the gap for libraries. Yes, and you may be going by the additional things like if you're like the universities, my university, technically, technically also looks to government accounting standards. There's also separately nonprofit accounting standards. Just know that they are counting standards and so often that will inform the processes you use. Let me see. Oh, there's a clock. Sorry. Okay. Did I just come. Yes, and then because I work in technical services well I so in my case I work in a large technical services unit, which covers acquisitions cataloging electronic resources. Other metadata for things like our digital collections and our institutional repository, and then it's not our unit but preservation and conservation are often lumped in with technical services. And in some cases that's just repairing a book that got damaged by a patron in other cases where you're dealing with rare or unique materials, then it can be a much higher level of intervention. And I'm happy to talk about any of these in more detail if you wish. Now, depending on this, so even at Roger State University, which was a small regional university library. Essentially, there were like one or two of the, or I guess, technically three of us who covered all these areas. There are multiple people who cover all these areas of my current institution and a lot of tribal libraries. It's good and bad because a lot of these are covered by one good part of it is it's a lot of fun and intellectually rewarding to be able to do all those different things now. The, the bad or I shouldn't say bad but the, the challenging part is that you don't often get to go to someone with extensive expertise in one of these areas. But I know one of the things I regret about no longer being in the smaller library is that I don't get to sort of delve into things that were kind of fun to learn about that I don't necessarily have to worry about now but I also don't get to worry about them. Yeah, and there's lots of I'm sure you've talked about this with Cindy besides accounting project management process improvement there's no end of things as a librarian that you can learn. Now, I, this is not something that's planned as part of my talk but one thing I will tell you that annoys me about my current institution are the librarians who want to reinvent the wheel. The project management is its own profession, feel free to draw from that profession without having to figure it all out on your own, and you don't have to become a project management expert you may have people in your institution who can help you with that. I only mentioned this because it's great like as librarians we love to learn we love new ideas we love new processes new things to look at the problem I have is where I'm in a large library and everybody wants to build everything from within. And, and for me that's both a waste of time and also not necessarily honoring the expertise that exists by other professionals so I'm just going to plug that in there as a sudden last minute thing that occurs to me. Okay, and then very briefly I think given the nature of your program the fact that you're far enough into it most of you that I don't need to be labored this, but I did want to talk a little bit about indigenous values. So, we've already talked about intellectual property. So, the nice thing I think the beneficial thing and the thing that you can sell as it were about yourselves, is that all of you likely have respect for multiple paradigms of intellectual that go beyond just the US code for copyright and which which can inform a richer understanding of working with materials in a respectful way, because the same principles that apply to working with the tribal community also apply for example, if you're working in a large university archives and you want to go out and work with student groups, the same things apply. They might be scared or confused or doubtful if someone from the university archive shows up and says we want to take your stuff that for any community that is either not familiar with these kinds of institutions or feels marginalized at all, being able to have conversations that talk about respecting the work they produced and why you want them in your collections is valuable. In terms of relationships, so I mentioned your constituents constituencies funders vendors and publishers and your colleagues. So, the other thing too is that, and again I'm not trying to not trying to turn us all into like, we're all perfect because we're indigenous, but I do think that we have protocols for relationships that perhaps make us more alert or a tune to interacting with others. And I did want to briefly touch on this word, sorry about this, this word constituencies. So a big, if you can counter this a popular thing that occurs in library schools is to talk about customers versus patrons versus users. You know, well and good and there's a place for that and you should think about what makes sense for your library and your professional values. But I tend to think in terms of constituencies because whether you're in a tribal library dealing with elders versus small children, or in a public library also dealing with elders, whether they're called such or acknowledged as such or small children, or in an academic library where you're dealing with PhD researchers versus incoming freshmen versus community users of the library. It's rare that we, I mean there are times when we'll think broadly about patrons or users or whatever term you want. But the reality is is often you're going to be thinking about a set of constituencies that have shared characteristics, and then hopefully the individual in front of you you're just treating with dignity and respect so it doesn't really matter if you call them a patron or customer in my mind because you should be dealing with them as an individual, rather than whatever term your library uses. So that's just a carry over from obviously in library school I got tired of that discussion myself so that's my little bit there and we can talk about that more if you feel passionately about that. Community scope so this is important because I work in a large university library and one of my other pet peeves is that people there take themselves very seriously, and that's not bad but they're always talking about the shared national collection the shared national collection and collecting unique materials. That's all well and good and I'm not diminishing that obviously I work there and I enjoy talking about those things, but scope is everything. And what makes sense for one community or one institution is not going to make sense for others. So, you know, if we begin to pick on Cindy and the Kansas City Public Library, the way that they're creating policies for public libraries is going to be very different than that low library in Claremore, Oklahoma that I visited. It has I mean it has everything to do with funding and staffing but also meeting the community needs. So, I guess the reason that I get frustrated with my institution is they think like oh we're this large research library so we know everything and I'm like, well, you know everything about this institution, but even another large research institution may have a different approach to their community. And those people cannot tell me anything about how to run a tribal library or a small library so in the context you're in that you obviously you scope it to your community. A lot of time and that you'd be aware of the sort of governing institution, your parent institution, it varies for public libraries. All of you can tell me more including Cindy, sometimes it's a county, sometimes it's a city entity. But, you know, obviously tribal libraries are often reporting up to a tribal government. And again, not to pick on Aaron, but a lot of the tribal college library so technically Aaron's in the tribal college library but a lot of the tribal college libraries are also the tribal community library. In some tribes that's not the case and so for the Muskogee we actually have a tribal college library and a tribal library that serve different purposes. But that's, you know, it's going to vary dependent on the community. And it's going to vary dependent on the community with another example are community college libraries are actually I've never worked in one I've always wanted to because they sort of straddle the role of public libraries and everybody I've ever known he's worked in the community college library has loved it because it because they get to sort of touch on all those different areas. So community college libraries actually are another venerable set of libraries that have different perspectives. Oops, advocacy. I apologize. It's this mouse is super sensitive by touching it. Okay, advocacy and expertise. This is definitely true in any environment. Now, with public libraries despite without getting political despite what's going on the country. Obviously, there are some challenges for public libraries. I also feel like as a country, regardless of some issues, most people tend to value public libraries or strong public libraries. And their, their statistics that bear that out, even across the political spectrum or whatever people's opinions are public libraries, usually in a lot of communities have a very strong rooted role and respect. And basically how they should go about that sometimes is a question, but they tend to have, I think, in our country pretty robust support, maybe not as robust as we would like but still pretty robust. I'd like to think universities sort of have the built in, you know, like they need it for accreditation at the very least, but also to provide support for researchers and students and a variety of other functions. And expertise are critical. And in tribal communities. It's very important, I think, for those of you who are going to work in tribal community, and it's easy for me to say this because I'm sort of being an armchair quarterback here because I've never had to work in a tribal community, but being able to advocate for your library is predicated on the roles of expertise. And within all of our communities, regardless of how different we might be culturally, we all, and in other communities that are non indigenous, we have specified roles for levels of expertise for health and wellness for leadership and for artisans, for artisans, there's always expertise and specific community roles in whatever community we're in, and being able to stay that will help furthering out what your library does for that tribal community. I apologize so you might hear a train in the background is going to be critical to you. And as much as you can tie that within your specific culture to traditional roles is also going to help you, but don't. I guess I'm encouraging you not to feel like you have to beg and plead to make your case. It's. It's also a thing that I see happen in libraries across the board is sometimes libraries try so very hard to say, Oh, we want to serve the community we just want to be here for you. The best and most successful libraries and librarians I see are very good at sort of standing on their own expertise and letting that be its own form of advocacy. It's not to be preachy and I hope this doesn't come across as sending or authentic, but I am saying that like knowing your value and standing firmly within your value goes a long way. Beyond sort of like begging for attention. We can talk about that in a moment and you can tell me what your reactions are to that statement. So here is my you can also email me Illinois but this one's a stable address. In the event that I ever leave Illinois, George Edward G at outlook.com Cindy has that as well. I also should say I'm just going to Greek. I forgot to say, you know, it's Jay. Hello, and but I will say my do thank you. And at the very end here and I'll look at chat in a moment. So again, these are not the fanciest slide. These are resources so if you're interested specifically in collections. And those are those are probably where. Well, I'll leave it there like that for resources. There are two books. There's a Peggy Johnson book fundamentals of collection development and management. And the latest addition unless they put one out that I've missed is 2018. It's a much slimmer version, but it hits the highlights and probably will work for most people. A lot of library schools like to use the, this sepanaro and Evans texts which has had a few different authors G Edward Evans has been there for a while. And I think that Margaret Cernosky sepanaro came in a few editions ago, but this one's a little bit more. It used to be this one is sort of paired down a little bit for what it used to be used to be very dense and a very sort of standard library school textbook. I actually like it better, but it is a denser read. You know, libraries unlimited so if you've probably by now encounter their kind of textbook so you know the sort of format. I like it it's a good textbook, but unless you're going to really do a deep dive into collections. Most of you will be pretty happy with Peggy Johnson texts but I wanted you to know about both of these. There are others but these are sort of the two primary ones. There are definitely all kinds of books on electronic resources acquisitions and cataloging cataloging this whole own thing. As those of you who have dealt into it know, but these two, unless you're going to very specific, very specifically focus on electronic resources and acquisitions, these two are probably probably your best bet and probably Peggy Johnson is the easiest to digest as a handy reference source in your professional bookshelf as it were. And then again there's a million lists serves as you've already found out I'm sure, but act net is it's okay. It's the primary one for acquisitions. Occasionally, someone will throw out a question and they get an answer. Okay is one if you're not cataloging approach with caution because it's a very active list, but if you're into cataloging it's very useful little license L is also very specific to licensing. And this is another one like the act net one. If you're doing a lot of electronic resources and you're steeped in licensing. Sometimes it can be useful for all. Almost all of you have probably already encountered this a lot of these blisters. They're very good resources, and especially the archives, just know that if you're not someone who likes to engage a day discussions about all kinds of the new shea, then they can be a little tedious and that's just something you'll learn to live with as a national. It's either bad or bad. In my beginning years I appreciated it these days. I sometimes wish there was less discussion about things that I don't think matters much as they do to other people but that's, that's the value of diversity within the profession. The last thing I want to talk about is LA. There's a division within the American Library Association called core American Library Association. I'm sure you have encountered plenty. How much you care about LA is going to depend on where you end up in the profession. So if you end up in a tribal library, it's not uncommon for tribal librarians to just not care about LA. And I can't blame them because it can be expensive. And if you can't attend conferences. Then value can be limited. If you're going to end up in a university or public library, within your communities and that's great. But I'm also a realist and understand that some of you may not end up in that core is the division that focuses on management technology and technical services broadly stated. And for example, that slide we talked about. Well, it was all good information George. We appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us. Thank you. I have a quick question for you. Did you intern with a collection in acquisitions department when you were in graduate school. I did not I actually stumbled into acquisition so this is another poorly kept secret kind of a dirty secret is that nobody really goes into acquisitions. Some of them do collections, some people cataloging. In acquisitions people often stumble into it so my first position was that Roger first professional position was at Roger State, and I did collections acquisitions in a library loan, and then the position opened up at Illinois and I applied. Not a lot of people are eager to go into acquisitions, because it's kind of and it's not that they people hate it but it's just kind of one of those things that nobody sets out to be an acquisitions librarian but someone has to make sure that they just get ordered and things get paid for. So that's how I kind of landed there by accident. And then Catherine you're asking duo. Do you have a working governance model for cataloging. I can talk a bit about this but let me, if you're comfortable on muting can you, if not you can do it in chat, but can you clarify for me what you're asking specifically about a working governance model. Okay, Catherine. Are you still Catherine, I will tell you a little bit while you maybe you're formulating your response. I can't tell maybe Catherine's already left, but if that's the case then the recording will be posted. So to answer questions question where I work we so there I have reporting to me copy catalogers, and those are people who typically pull Again I can slow down for any of you who have not taken a cataloging class or encountered this, but a lot of the people who I work for pulling a record from OCLC that's pretty much a good record. And for a lot of English language stuff that that's particularly just like general monographs from an established publisher. A lot of times by the time we get it there's already available copy records. We also have people who specifically focus on original cataloging. And that could be an English language publication that isn't widely held, where people are essentially going into OCLC and creating a mark record from scratch, where most of our original catalogers are focused are in, in our case because we're a large university on foreign language materials, for which there often is not a lot of. There's not a lot of copy cataloging records, or they're not in the cataloging language of English. So there might be a record for an Arabic book, but it's for an Arabic library as opposed to a US library. That's very brief and I'm if Catherine, wherever you are in the world if you want to reach out I can tell you more about it if I did not answer your question. But it's going to vary a lot of time and in a lot of places that's how it's going to work there's going to be people who slam in the records for which there's easy copy, or they're buying vendor records, and then a group of specialists who create records for things that are very unique or don't have an existing record in OCLC. And I also realize I owe Cindy a favor so I mentioned having good relationships with vendors there's what I'm going to reach out to in hopes that that person will respond to Cindy and possibly do a webinar, who can talk about life on the vendor side, because the other thing is, again, I'm hoping all of you will go back and be amazing tribal librarians but wherever life takes you just be aware that and I hope all of you prove me wrong and you become experts in your tribal communities. If you do not, then, or if they don't have an opening at the time you're going back, then just be aware that you don't have to stay within library specifically you could work for a vendor and they need people with an MLIS and expertise and so I'll try and get that person connected with Cindy. Well, wonderful George we're almost at time we thank you so much for joining us this evening and sharing your knowledge and your career with us. Okay, thank you all. And again apologies that we didn't have more discussion but I hope that you found this useful so thank you all for taking your evening to be here. Yes, we appreciate you very much. Since it looks like people are leaving I will go ahead and log off as well and thank you all so have a have a good night. Thank you.