 Hello good afternoon welcome to film my run my name is Stephen Cousins. Today we are in Wiltshire. Look at the beautiful hills behind me these are the running grounds of one of Britain's best-loved and most successful currently ultra runners. He holds FKT's all over the country we're gonna meet Damien Hall for a little run around his neck of the woods. So you know Damien, this is Damien. Oh if you're making me shy this is Stephen. Hi. So you might remember a few weeks ago we did this thing with John Kelly where we ran around Bristol for a bit and up some hills and I thought it'd be quite funny to do the same with this chap here. Well whatever John does I like to copy it as soon as possible afterwards. This is what we've come to realize that basically Damien, but John is the American version of Damien and vice versa. And obviously I need to run do the run faster than what you did with John. Well we already are. Okay okay. We already are. I'm already out of breath. So welcome on to our little chat with Damien Hall who if you don't know is probably at the moment Britain's best known and arguably most successful ultra runner. Are you sure? Well I think you've got me mixed up. Who else? Someone else. Let's think about this. Who else have you got? Who? Beth Pascal. Okay right now you've done this before and I've just done it. We've neglected the pretty awesome... I'm afraid this is where it's gonna get a bit singletracky. I feel right. We've neglected the pretty awesome group of female runners that we have in this country. I'll tell you some more. Gail and Reynolds although he's not British. Yeah. Kim Collison. Tom Evans. You're the Tom. Second name I always forget but he did really well in UTMB a few. Tom Owens. Yeah. Oh yeah. He did better than me. Andy Simmons based in France. Donnie Campbell. There you go. There you go. I'm rubbish. Hopeless. Where did Tom Owens finish in UTMB? He was fourth. He was fourth. Yeah. Even better. Even better. So this hill is in the slaughter for nine. We've finished coming up this hill before we do that. This is called... this is nicknamed the Sting. Oh it looks like a Sting as well. Yeah. It's good fun. And of course there's a cameraman standing at the top when you're at your absolute worst. You don't want that. No. Finally wild. I'm trying to think of some more. There you go. I'm not even top ten. Paul Tierney. Right. Now Danny's listed all the runners who are better than him. Oh there are many more. Many more. I keep thinking. Look it's fair to say that you are and have become pretty well known for a variety of things but let's just go right back because your story is one that a lot of us thought something midlife crisis guys would love to emulate and not everyone can because you started pretty late didn't you? Yeah. First half marathon was 2011 which I think puts me at 35 at the time. What half marathon was it? The bath half. Just down the road. I was living in bath at the time. Do you know what my first half marathon was? No. It was in 2011 and it was the Bristol half. I'm going to head of that one but then it does open up a bit. Oh gosh. So that's later in the year isn't it? It's September. Yeah. I think I did my first half marathon. What was it? Was it a life changing moment for you? That's an interesting question. Was it a big moment for you? Yeah it was. I'll tell you the funny thing. So given what you and I have done in the past few years I walked into the hotel after we finished and I got a round of applause from people in the hotel. Looking back now it's only 13 miles. How did you feel after your first half? Oh amazing. Welcome to Wiltshire Cotswold mode. Yeah why did you feel amazing? What happened? I loved a few things. I mean the camaraderie was nice bath does have a really good atmosphere. I guess just that sense of pushing yourself. I'd never run that far before. That was very satisfying to kind of think oh this is a bit uncomfortable but I can keep going. And I guess that sense of achievement at the end. What made you do it? Why did you start? I was just feeling a bit unfit really. It wasn't that profound. Like I did play football. I was quite active. I did a lot of. And you're a walker aren't you? Yeah. I used to enjoy trekking and hill walking at weekends. So it's not one of those stories where it's sort of a couch potato to becoming a runner. You weren't quite as bad a speedway then. Oh I love this story though. I do love it. Yeah I remember reading about him in the Guardian a few years ago. And being really inspired actually. Especially with the age thing. Thank you Steve. There you go Steve wait. You have inspired one of our best UTMB finishers ever. Yeah I just remember feeling straight away like I want to do more of this. This is satisfying and it just felt good I suppose. Just pushing yourself a bit further and it turning out okay. So my wife told me not to talk about myself. So I'm trying to avoid that. Well I'm bored of talking about me so I'm happy to talk about you. Well the thing is if we compare again yours and my kind of trajectory. You decided quite early on to go for the big long stuff. And I mean not many people, I don't know, people who followed Damien's path. You completed the spine and finished fourth years ago. Yeah 2014. Yeah I got a bit carried away a bit soon. So I guess the next year I did my first marathon and my first ultra. And especially with the ultra I just thought this is for me. I just loved everything about it. And obviously most people watching this would probably agree. You know running on trails, camaraderie, much better aid stations. I'll get this gate. When entering the spine, how did you realise that you were actually quite good at this sort of stuff? I guess I'd had one clue with my first hundred mile which was my third ultra marathon. It was on the console away, console by century. It was the first year of the race and it's not a particularly competitive race. But I did finish third. But yeah I knew it wasn't UTMB. But something about it, I don't know it seemed to suit me. The spine was you know it's not just another level, it's several levels really. But I was very surprised what happened there. But I realised that it was... Were you genuinely surprised? Yeah going into the race I was thinking I just want to complete it. But maybe I could sneak into the top ten. You know maybe, but top twenty just finishing would be great. But you see for most mid-age blokes like us, finishing at all would have been the goal, the achievement. Well so I guess you're saying how was I able to... Yeah how were you able to say to yourself I can do top twenty here? Yeah I don't know. I mean I realised that my hiking background I think was more useful there than my running background. And that was because you're out in the weather, it's looking after yourself a bit of navigation. Those things that I didn't really even think were skills turned out to be really really useful. And people were just like racing too hard I suppose around me which was quite eye-opening actually. All these more experienced runners were just crashing and burning because they were overdoing it so early. Which came back to benefit you a couple of years ago didn't it? Well yeah I'm not sure what you're referring to that. Oh yes! I mean that was a hilarious race really. I enjoyed it. So 2011 how long did it take you to become aware of UTMB? Oh good question. I guess I've probably heard of it the same way most people do which is UTMB points. You know you hear someone say that or it's attached to a race. Yeah you get points for that one. Yeah and you're like what? Yeah. But also there was a magazine a new magazine called Outdoor Fitness which is sadly no longer with us. But I'd started writing for them. Journalism was my main sort of job then. And I definitely would have heard of it mentioned in there I think. I'm pretty certain. You know I remember reading about Jez Bragg and his win. Yes. And that was pretty inspiring. And immediately you said that's for me? I think so. What happened was as soon as I did the spine the first time all I could think of was about just doing it again. And you find quite a lot of people have that same feeling. So in 2015 I did it again. And you've got one place higher. Yes one place higher. And was that a good result for you? Were you pleased with that? I suppose yeah I was. I mean I was only there. I changed my mentality from you know complete to compete. It seemed like a lot of extra hurt I suppose. Just a one more place. And there was no kind of trophy or anything. But still it was another... Was Owen in that race? Hello flippin' heck. Hello. These guys. This is Sheila who's very much part of the story actually because it was her husband Alan especially who always talking to me about UTMB and what a great race it was. How funny to me you haven't seen him for months actually. Do you remember that UTMB? You're blessed. And now you're an elite culture runner. That's my claim to fame. It is mostly down to you. Almost all. Clearly. But I can remember it. That was almost like it was planted wasn't it? Yeah. Thanks for waiting there for three hours Sheila. Nice one. Probably that tenner later. Well say hello to Alan and see you soon. Cheers Sheila. Is this your regular run route? Fairly regularly yes. There's probably two really regular bits. But yeah if I can I get down into this valley called the Bybrook Valley. I suppose if I'm doing just about six miles I'm a little bit closer to home further down the valley. But if I'm doing anything more I usually come down here. Yeah. A few weeks ago I saw you posted a photo of some massive dung heap. Oh we've just gone past that. It's not always glamorous. Yes. Do you know what? I thought I wouldn't get any comments or likes. So I might need to put more pictures of horse dung. It strikes me you're quite good at Instagramming stuff. I've no real idea. I don't know. You now are obviously a sponsored athlete. Do you feel any pressure to live up to that sponsorship? Yeah that's a great question. Yeah I suppose yes and no is the honest answer. We're going to swing left. I suppose I mean I enjoyed... I mean I enjoyed social media anyway. I mean you know it's got its bad sides and its good sides. I quite enjoyed it anyway. I mean my main sponsors there's very little pressure from them to do anything. They're really good. Yeah. But sometimes you hear about other companies who are just similarly entertaining expectations of what they think their athletes might do. Yeah. I must admit once I did do a... I sort of promoted a competition for one brand that was supporting me. And I think it was clear it wasn't an authentic post. And I remember getting a few comments back and I remember thinking those people are right. I didn't really understand that competition. I didn't kind of believe in it. I'm probably not going to do that again. So we all kind of live and learn I suppose. But mostly social media is fairly enjoyable as long as we're sort of careful with it I think or at least for me. But I still waste a lot of time on it. Like I don't have a television but I do waste time on social media which is a bit of a... But the net has its benefits doesn't it? I don't know. You have stuck your neck out quite a long way with the environmental issues and politics to an extent. Yeah. Yeah that's been fun really. I suppose I was a bit naive when I first started posting about our climate and ecological emergency. I guess I just thought everyone who follows me is a trail runner. They'll all agree. Yeah they'll all want you know. And I was like oh I've oversimplified you know I suppose my followers or... Yeah and that's alright. But also I mean some of the feedback was valid and it's made me look at my lifestyle a bit as well and think could I do better in some areas. So I don't think anything on it's ever really upset me too badly. But also I suppose I feel like I don't know this climate stuff is just too urgent not to not to use you know the very little platform I have got. It's almost too urgent not to use that to further that cause really. And I think what I'm originally I was too I guess too frightened to be called a hypocrite or too worried about not being perfect but we just can't live like that you know all our clothes they were greenhouse gas emissions in creating them all our food no one or almost no one can sort of escape that system. You can't avoid being a hypocrite I suppose. Yes so I'm happy to say kind of I'm a hypocrite or I love the words of Jonathan Pye actually he said you can either be a hypocrite or an asshole. Yeah. So I'd rather be a hypocrite. Yeah. You can only do what you can do. I think so. I think so. Yeah. But then yeah no I enjoy that side of it. Social media is mostly mostly good fun. I mean I think it has I think I know the answer but has this curtailed some of your running ambitions at all would you say? No. No I would say almost the opposite. During the pen I'm way run that I did in the summer I tried as hard as possible to get in those values that sense of purpose of I'm not for a minute saying I'm the Bob Geldolf of climate change or you know I know I didn't really do anything that changed the world at all but to feel I was doing it for a purpose other than just because I wanted to or just to set a record. Yeah. I tried to make it a sort of sustainable you know to have a sustainable message all right you could criticize it because there are more car journeys generated by it you know we could go on forever. Can I just find something? Yeah yeah but giving it more meaning I think contributed to how it turned out for me because it meant it mattered more you know so I think it had genuinely helped me actually and genuinely contributed to a good outcome I think. Awesome. So the first time I became aware of you was one of your first FKTs and that was when you did one of my loves the south-west coast path and you smashed it. Well it didn't. Tell me a little bit about that quickly. I mean it didn't feel that way because I was so tired most of the time. So that was 2016 wasn't it? Yeah I mean it was a fantastic adventure but I started off with my friend Mark Townsend and it was more kind of his trip than mine. Okay. He'd invited me along but he did develop a knee problem and there were a couple of days in the middle where well you know we were just slowing down and really he kind of had to stop but obviously he didn't want to stop. There is a video on YouTube if you want to have a look at Mark and Damien's south-west coast path FKT attempt. It's called Sultan Dirt and yeah and then he sort of yeah he stopped running and I carried on but to sort of we're behind the previous record by then and to make to get enough miles in yeah there was only time for basically three hours and sleep a night and just two on the last two nights so you end up pretty tired but it was you know incredible scenery and just a great adventure really. So I remember you saying that the south-west coast path with you at one time was your obsession and then it kind of graduated to the UTMB being your obsession and you've now done that three four times. Yeah so and each time you have improved your placing tell me a little bit about your UTMB life. I guess I'd also say probably the spine race early on was my kind of first obsession and then yeah I moved on to UTMB and I guess the first year I did it was just kind of mind-blowing like I think when people go out there see how much bigger the sport is in Europe you know and the course as well as obviously much bigger mountains than here in these Cotswold mountains and yeah it was just a mind-blowing experience really and I straight away thought right gotta come back and I knew I could train much better because I wasn't really running on that sort of terrain and it seemed obvious to me that my legs just weren't strong enough you know they really hurt. It's an yeah experience a lot of us have I suppose so yeah trained a bit more in the Bracken Beacons and so on and I guess went back improved and that kept happening I suppose I'd have a wonderful experience there. What was it that made you improve was it the experience you know you've done it before you know it's coming or was it training or was it a bit of both? Well the first time was the training because my legs just weren't used to that sort of running those long downhills so it's the training after that I think it was partly a bit of a mindset change of like maybe I could get in the top 10 here and having that bit more ambitious a bit more focused and I suppose another year of good training. Do you think that builds? You're on year. Yeah it does I'll let you go first. I think so yeah definitely and I haven't I haven't had many injuries and actually I'm more and more almost touch wood when I can find some I'm almost four years now without an injury so that I think yeah that consistency really adds up to something over time but yeah I also like working on technique I suppose with Shane Benzie I mean my downhilling was really bad but I've really really worked on that so it's possibly my best aspect now. Tell me about downhilling or tell me about technique how much if you can put a percentage on it learning how to run with good form and good technique you know downhills is a classic thing that we saw just back there with your ability to just go down that hill and me still timorous worried about slipping over even though I've got good lugs on my trail shoes This is slightly better actually yeah first of all you need good grip shameless sponsor plug Damian with his mud claws What were you wearing? Yeah the new ones yeah ultimately it's got to be a change in your mind I think but that comes from increased confidence and how do you get that well looking at yeah I changed my technique four downhills but also you know I just got stronger I got more used to it from going to Breckenbeekens technique I was you know I was running with the brakes on you know I was reluctant to go down long hills and that accelerates the muscle damage so you know it's totally counterproductive so I'd really encourage people to sort of try and take the brakes off and just kind of relax yeah relax and sort of let yourself go down the hill and you'll actually find you'll have less muscle damage maybe after the first couple of times in future yes sorry and yeah legs getting stronger and then that gives you confidence and enjoyment and that's probably the big thing like I started looking forward to downhills and thinking oh a downhill yeah what fun and that's a huge difference and then of course that affects your what your body's doing as well if you're looking forward to it you're relaxed and you're happy whereas instead of going like this yeah but I would say that and fearful causes tension and tension causes injury yeah but I would say that took a year if not two years to really kind of transform yeah so that was a big I'd say that was a big one so let's carry on with you Tim Beading and get to you basically have improved year on year your confidence has grown and your strength has grown and you come into UTMB 2018 with an actual I mean a lot of people don't like to say what they want to do what their plan is but yours was quite clear I want to make the top ten of UTMB this year yeah I regret being a sort of public about that if you haven't done it then you might regret it but you can't regret it surely no not really but I think I did start for the first time ever before a race I started to feel you know some pressure but it was all totally because you said I want to get top ten and I'm having a film made about me yes and I mean the film wasn't my idea it was Matt and Ellie but I was you know I was perfectly happy to be filmed like and they're good friends but they saw something oh hello hello don't know if you can see both of you oh bless you hello yeah I mean I had people in Chamonix were saying to me good luck for top ten good luck for top ten and I remember like feeling really grateful of that but at the same time like I you know I did a story for trail running about how I was trying to get the top ten and that got put online and stuff and I remember thinking I kind of wish I hadn't done that actually but I think maybe it helped me maybe it maybe it maybe focused you know when it got difficult so yeah and possibly the difference between those two years was I mean my training was a bit different but one thing was yeah the year before I'd sort of probably just not got enough calories in in the last few hours which is a really easy thing to do isn't it I'll tell you what though that race 2018 you didn't need any calories in the last 20 miles of that race because everyone was dropping your motivation must have been so strong at that point I mean from I think I left Cor Moyer which is nearly halfway I think I was about 12th 14th 12th or 14th so that's a fantastic place to be because the chance of people dropping out ahead of you are fairly high at least two or three in fact the year before when I finished 12th I sort of thought well a few people will still DNF ahead I wasn't too you know lazy about it but no one did that year you were disappointed weren't you that year because you lost your 10th position yes did you feel stronger at the same point in 2018 when you were in a round about the same place and thinking okay this is it yeah I felt I think I felt more fired up more determined more focused I thought I don't you know I don't want to repeat what happened last time where I sort of let it go partly I think you know a calorie deficit or insufficient calories yeah I had extra focus and I was more determined to sort of well to get those calories in yeah but I wanted it more was probably the overarching thing and maybe the pressure actually helped with that I think it did actually yeah I think it does and when I've done things in fact every time Matt and Elliot filmed me which has been quite a few times now it's always gone well for me so you know that is no no largely largely not they do seem to be a little bit a little bit of a lucky omen to me so yeah obviously they add some pressure but I think it helps focus you to an extent I think so yeah last 20 miles of UTMB 2018 you feeling strong you're in what are you in 12th are you a bit higher up by then oh to be honest by then no from halfway I was inside the top 10 so by La Foli I think I was about I think I was 7th and I was told that maybe Tim Tollison ahead of me would drop soon but then he didn't drop for ages which was annoying although I must say he's of all the kind of elite runners he's probably I'm probably his biggest fan or at least he's the one I look up to more than anyone probably well actually Claire Gallagher for more obvious reasons the climate stuff in case that was misunderstood yeah from from kind of La Foli which I suppose is about 60 miles in 65 you know it's about 7th so I thought this you know this is possible and I think it really made me focus actually whereas the previous year I just felt really well I suppose pretty tired and wrecked by then but it was just the mental the mental difference I think was don't let it slip this time just stay stay on it and what point did you hit fifth and thought right I'm not letting this go now let me think maybe it was a champagne lac maybe it was there there's still a little way to go yeah oh it's a long way to go yeah and I was touring and throwing with Scott Hawker who's you know he's a great guy I really like him we're touring and throwing a bit and I passed Zach Miller yeah who's just about to DNF I think he reks himself though doesn't he I mean he goes all out and if he blows up I think like Jim Warnesley in the early years just goes out all out and he dies a death he dies a death yeah and I am kind of intrigued by that because that's not how I race that doesn't suit my personality I don't think I don't have that confidence or probably talent and there's part of me thinking I'm being a bit cowardly by racing the way I tend to do it but I don't know it seems to work for me I just don't think I'm as good or as confident as them and I guess sometimes it works for them sometimes not and thankfully that year it didn't so what are you feeling oh running down the hill from Le Fleurge well if I play to go or whatever it is I must admit you get so yeah from Le Fleurge well it really looked possible but I knew there was someone quite close yeah I mean as soon as I started that descent I hit kicked a rock for the first time I went flying cut myself up and I thought you you know you idiot don't throw it away now because I had just relaxed just a little yeah I thought last checkpoint it's done I mean if you don't know if you've not done CCC or UTMB the final hill coming down from the ski lifts at Le Fleurge it goes on a bit it goes on and I mean it is very steep certainly early on it's very steep so there was a sense of well there was a sense of you've done it but then a sense of like no you haven't like don't lose it now but then I must say on the way down there were so many people on the route just wishing me well and stuff it was it was really emotional actually it was wonderful so many people said oh I'm from I'm from Bristol or you know I've come out to see you there was a guy in green running in with you at the end oh I don't know like was it just someone from Innovate maybe or I'm not sure I thought it was somebody you knew quite well because they ran in with you almost the whole way to the finish line you had Nicky Spinks there yes and one or two other guys from Innovate sometimes joined me for a little bit but yeah I was incredible and the crowds were you know just so generous and enthusiastic you know I met people who had said oh he was I drove here especially to see your finish and stuff and I didn't even know me you know it's just and there was some annoying guy that came up with a I don't know if you saw him Steve I didn't see him a lot like this actually right and he ran with me for a bit with the camera I hate those guys he kind of ruined it for me you know yeah I hate those people they just they stick a camera in your face as though they know you and they've got some right to do it what was funny is though I was in a gym before all this lockdown business and it was the first time I've been to this gym and I was just chatting to them at the till and I looked to the um going left this big screen behind them and there was your footage of it and I was like uh without even thinking I said that's me I didn't really mean to go hey look that's me but it was a strange strange moment but yeah you were there sharing it as well and it just felt incredible um yeah probably one of the best moments of my life really well I mean I was going to say you know well I'll ask you is that your greatest running moment thus far I think it feels like the Pennine way was very close and maybe he called it but then that might be how musicians always say their new album is their best um but also if I'm honest the two previous UTMB's my kids were there and I got to run the last hundred meters with them that was such a shame that they couldn't make it over yeah I mean in some ways it did help me keep me more kind of focused on yeah you know just being a runner but it was yeah it was I was going to pop in pop in here unless you prefer the road um alright um but yeah those were very special moments so that bit of tarmac uh I'm sure it'll be the same for a lot of people but that little bit of tarmac in Chamonix so many kind of emotions and memories on that little bit and I guess largely, largely positive ones um whereas for some people maybe not always but and is that it done now no I was going to go back this year um no I must I must if I could just add like I know I only finished fifth I didn't I didn't win it although you know I felt a bit like I was sort of behaving like I won it I guess at the time it was the best British male result for for eight to nine years but is that gutting? is that gutting? a year later Tom no no no no no I was really thrilled for it that was his first hundred as well was it really? oh amazing because his girlfriend Holly Page that was her first um Chamonix experience as well she did CTC and smashed that because she's a short distance runner mainly no I like Tom a lot he's been really generous to me with his sort of time and time and knowledge at times and actually there's a story because before I was when I before I'd done a marathon I was sent by a magazine to cover a sort of elite fell running training camp and Tom was there along with sort of Ricky Lightfoot and people like that and I didn't know any of these guys but I was like oh wow they're they're these kind of they're the best runners best fell runners in Britain and then four years later I was in the same GB team as Tom which is quite you know I depinched myself and he remembered it really sweetly like I don't think any of the others remembered me but he was like yeah I remember when you came along um but yeah Tom's an awesome talent and he can do it you know any distance whereas I can only really do the longer stuff yeah two great Tom's running for the UK at the moment there certainly are so you're all right so you haven't done what you said but you would like to go back there and try again yes I mean my obsession I think my obsession with it is over like I think and also I think I've I've probably had my best race there but it's just really exciting anything you do now is a bonus basically well I feel a lot more relaxed about it you know I don't feel a desperation obviously I want to do my best etc but I think I feel more relaxed um and you know it's just it's still the most exciting race um that I know of on you know on the planet kind of thing so I think I will try and do it next year if it's on how does your political and ethical point of view fit with the monopoly that is UTMB I must admit I fit yes I do feel differently about UTMB now than I than I used to um there have been one or two behind the scenes things there that I probably can't really say publicly regarding kind of filmmakers and some some disagreements there um which I thought was really out of order of them um and yes I don't really love I don't really love what they sort of seem to be trying to do which is kind of monopolise um trail running yeah so I do feel a bit differently about it at the same time I suppose it's hard to it's hard to sort of not be attracted to the just such an exciting race I mean I don't I think I feel the same way really there are things you kind of think that doesn't sit very comfortably with me but then it's just awesome isn't it you have to yeah and it's not like yeah there are people doing worse things in the world certainly it's not like it's a sort of um what's what's the word you know certain countries get yeah yeah and people can spend their money whenever and if people don't spend the money doing these things you know it's down to the consumers with this one really um right stop one second if you are watching this and you're saying God Stephen looks out of breath go back and watch the John Kelly video look how much faster are we running today than we did with John well it's because you mentioned John Kelly so I have to try and do it faster that's that's the thing oh dear I am fit, I'm fitter than I've ever been I am, I was going to do the South Downsway 100 in under 20 hours I promise you and it was cancelled what can I do I think you can claim you did I think in fact you won that one you won it by a lot you won it by a lot Stephen South Downsway oh dear, right I just catch my breath and climb this hill yeah I do feel different about you Tim B yeah but it's like you say it's not like you know it's not like they're doing sort of child labour camps although I have hurt no but yeah but also yeah I feel differently about the big international races now because yeah I used to fly you know 3, 4, 5 times even a year and I'm really embarrassed about that now and I'm not telling anyone else what to do but I can't go on doing that so I think 100 miles is my distance and I want to do the big 100 milers but yeah the big ones in America you can't get into and then some of the others you know Daniel Defoe or Grand Raid Reunion it's just so far away there'll be so much flight, so many emissions I you know there's only one option though you know then what's that? he could walk there I'm semi interested I think I will do that one we haven't got a load of time we're running so quick we're coming to the end of our run almost we haven't even listed the endless FKTs you've done tell me right I mean the rounds you hold the record for the Paddy Buckley winter round and what's the other one is it a summer round? I don't hold that anymore so lockdown has been quite you know I've set 3 FKTs this year but I've lost 2 as well so a guy called Matthew Roberts a local guy in Clamberis he beat my Paddy Buckley time this summer so big credit to him thanks for bringing that up and what else did I lose I lost my south west coast path Christian Morgan was that very recently? yes I did hear about that so I've lost a couple as well so that's alright it keeps you on your toes South Wales traverse? that's still yours right let's just double check all these I think it is actually the second lockdown came in very nicely for that one should keep it in my pocket for a few more weeks but yeah I think I've got I think I've set 7 overall but I only hold 4 but the biggest one that you now hold 4 I think that photo was here wasn't it that's the big pile of cow dung or horse dung the biggest one that you hold is the Pennine Way essentially the spine course so how bad do you feel about a week after John Kelly breaks a 31 year old record is it 31 something like that 30 year old record he beats it and then you kind of come in whilst all over it I do feel bad but we both kind of knew it's not like I snuck up behind and we both knew we were both going for it and we discussed it quite a lot and we shared information you've run together don't you let's do this bit not as often as we'd like because we've both got young families so it's not easy to arrange but in fact in March we had the Americans together and it was actually the same day that the soon to be leaving American President had announced a travel ban from Europe and I think we were starting to think we were starting to realise how severe the coronavirus crisis might be and he was already going to do the Pennine Way he had told me that either that day or before and I've been thinking about it for a few years but always put it off because it was just so intimidating and it was you know when I realised UTMB probably wouldn't be on was when I thought well I'll do the Pennine Way instead but he was very supportive of it he came to the end he was there and it's like Scott Jurek and Carl Meltzer Carl Meltzer on the the Appalachian Way similar kind of thing really and that's what we do in ultra running is we support each other and whilst there is competition there we celebrate other people's achievements and John and you such decent guys there's never going to be any bad feeling about stuff like that is there? I hope not and John's been incredibly supportive and I mean what's amazing is when he's come over here he's really I think understood the community the running community and they've really embraced him quickly as well it's been one giant loving really I think it's been really nice I'll give you a choice here Stephen we can go back up the sting or we can sort of follow this path that's usually this is slightly longer just give it a little bit more time it's a little bit of a light isn't it let's do this let's do this one and you can take it easy on me well I was going to see if you want to try and run up it or not look if there's a segment up here you've got it there's no doubt about that I think my friend Carl always claims he's got it there must be a segment up here if there isn't I'll create one we'll get one I think there is it might happen during the race because well maybe not because everyone's knackered where were we we were talking about your relationship with John Kelly and how he's come over here and really fitted into the running community over here but I think also he's shaken things up a bit or at least for people like me because he thinks so ambitiously and goes hey I'm going to do not one round but all three all together have you been improving your cycling skills can't comment eight days after him that's the thing I love what he did but I'm just not passionate about cycling yeah you know all those cars on the roads yeah I don't really like it I'm just going to go this side because my arm's aching that's alright I'll hike nothing to do about the legs yeah they really this is steep guys and even if I was in a race I'd be walking up this yeah it's not I won't pretend I'm finding this easy but I try and make myself I try to make myself run it well I'm going to walk well if I wasn't being videoed I'd walk too but well look I'm not going to alright I'll walk I'm not going any faster yeah no it's been great having John here and I hope he's I hope he can get together for the future that sounds almost romantic no I don't think so I mean the chances are we'll both be doing similar races yeah because we I guess we're kind of similar athletes and that neither of us is going to do well at I don't know western states for example we both like the longer tougher ones so we'll probably be crossing over again as well and I guess I've heard a little bit about what he might be up to next and there might be more well I'll let Tim tell people what he's up to next oh yeah oh yeah it's a nice view that is a good view isn't it look at that yeah I feel very lucky it's a nice little valley so what's next Damien I mean in terms of your ambitions well I just want to whatever John does you want to just do it a week after him yeah yeah good question I mean I think this year has been probably really what's the word eye-opening probably for a lot of people in lots of ways and even on the very kind of trivial trivial level I think I found that I love the FKT record stuff possibly more than races so I could see myself I do have some ideas for next year and it'll probably be a if the races are on it'll probably be an even balance maybe like two races two FKT attempts so it has changed a bit the way I think about running I would say thought about it because you're in my head you're a very British runner have you thought about going to the States or going doing terroir in New Zealand or or even you know going and doing the Barclay some of those things appeal I must admit I did go over to try and do a Western States qualifier and that didn't go so well for very you know could be various reasons you know the travel over didn't go well and stuff like that but I think with Western States I mean I do like most people I enter every year but even if I got in I don't think it would oh sorry right I don't think it would actually suit me all that well I'm not like Tom Evans I'm not like a genuinely talented athlete I like I like of course that's the big lumps that I can hike up but you do have a 235 marathon PB which is nice to be sniffed at totally different well that's not bad but like people like Tom Evans are down in the 220s so that's quite a significant difference yeah so I don't see myself in that category so I would love to do Western States but I don't think I'd ever do that well there if I'm honest the heat as well I don't you know love so I think for me it is the lumpy so what about the lumpy races one of the three big trails in America any thoughts about doing those? yeah they do appeal did you note that there was a slight pause if you've ever studied psychology I have thought about those and of course they combine nicely with I suppose with my background as a tracker it becomes pretty much almost a hybrid movement you know it's half running half walking really yeah they do interest me but probably not for not for two or three years probably but they do interest me yes how does family life work? well the kids are a bit older now so it's fairly you know they're at school so that's a lot easier than it used to be or you know any new parent knows it's pretty tough to get your running in but I guess I found it enough you will find a way to get it in yeah but it's a lot easier nowadays you know yeah they're at school and they're sleeping through the night so it's it's alright yeah final question proper running underwear or just your normal underpants? no underwear this man is wrong on so many levels and no shorts it was a game changer for me when I found proper running underwear with no seams do they sponsor this show or something? she did give me a free pair of underwear once at the London Marathon Expo she said have a pair of underwear and it's changed your life well I did have a pair of ex-bionic underwear before that and yeah it really did have you thought about starting an underwear channel on YouTube? film my underwear that's an entirely different thing look I don't need to come on that one but I might watch we're done here we're out of here how far have we run? we have run oh god I don't even know I'm not even on the right page of my watch oh no we've done 9.7km he told me this was 10km I've been short changed by 300 metres what can we do? we've come down there well I'm going to run home it's been an absolute pleasure thank you so much once again you've basically just copied John Kelly but did you ask that question to John Kelly? actually no John if you're watching can you comment down below proper running underwear or just your normal pants or commando like Damien here that's it from film my run thank you very much for watching so much thanks to Damien for taking the time out and showing me that round his local running course and the rain has held off so I'm pleased about that any final thoughts? final words? well thank you for having me on I've enjoyed almost all of it till right at the end here I made him feel very uncomfortable it's my job take care see you again for another film my run bye bye you should make that the question at the end of all your that would be quite funny you started something you started Stephen you made me sweat mate I'll wear this jumper because I'm going to be a bit cold because we're not going to be running that fast sorry about that