 Good afternoon everybody. I'm delighted to welcome you today to this event, Irish Women in Leadership in Peace, Security and Diplomacy. In this panel discussion which is jointly organized by the Embassy of Ireland to Belgium, the Department of Foreign Affairs and the IIA, we're delighted to be joined by a panel of three distinguished Irish women, Brigadier General Maureen O'Brien, Secretary General of the Department of Defence, Jackie McCrum and the political director of the Department of Foreign Affairs, Sonia Highland. They will highlight their experiences in senior leadership roles and offer perspectives on how the application of the Women, Peace and Security agenda can enhance foreign security and defense policy. 2020 marks the 20th anniversary of the UN Security Council resolution on Women, Peace and Security and is also the 25th anniversary of the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action in this regard. So to celebrate these milestones, the panel will discuss how the meaningful participation of women at the decision-making table can shape better policy and operational decisions. This event is part of the Irish Embassy's Visible Women 2020 initiative which aims at amplifying the women's voice and role in diplomacy, development, entrepreneurship and the arts. And the Embassy in Belgium has organized a significant agenda in this area. Following the opening remarks by Ambassador Helena Nolan, whom I hope will be able to join us from the Embassy of Ireland to Belgium, we will pass the floor to our three distinguished speakers who will each speak for approximately 10 minutes and then we will transition to question and answer with our audience. You will be able to join the discussion using the Q&A function on Zoom which you should see on your screen. So please feel free to send your questions during these sessions as they occur to you and we will come to them once the panel have finished their remarks. We would appreciate if you could indicate your name and affiliation when you put your question and I'm happy to say that today's presentation and the question and answer are both on the record. So please feel free to join the discussion on Twitter also using the handle at IIEA and hashtag Visible Women 2020. So I will now formally introduce Ambassador Helena Nolan and hand over her to give you the background to the discussion. Helena, the floor is yours. Thank you very much, Mary. We've had a few technical difficulties so can I just check if you can see and hear me? Yes, yes we can and I hope our audience can too. Fantastic, that's great. Thank you so much, Mary. It's lovely to see you and our panelists and welcome everyone to this event today. The Embassy of Ireland in Belgium and our Partnership for Peace delegation are really pleased to be partnering with the IIEA to host this event on women in leadership and we're delighted that so many participants have signed up joining us from Ireland to Belgium and all over the world, one of the benefits I suppose of taking events like these online these days. I want to thank everyone who made this possible, including your team at the IIEA and especially Claudia Quain, whom we know well from her time here in Brussels and my own colleagues Elaine Holloway, Tony Ormsby and Maruna Burras and Maruna is an active member of Women in International Security here in Brussels so a special welcome to all of the wise women who are attending this event and to all of our really good colleagues and partners here in Belgium. Work on gender inclusivity is a horizontal priority for Ireland as you know across all of our policies and operations. It's the key element in our approach to our UN Security Council tenure which will commence in January. It's a priority for our Embassy here, for our partnership at NATO, for our Defence Forces, our peacekeepers and it's a priority for me personally and one in which I've been proud to work on in my career, including in my most recent formal role as disarmament director. Ireland has really led in bringing a gender perspective to all aspects of disarmament with the focus both on the gendered impact of weapons and on the need for greater female empowerment in disarmament fora and this has been a real game changer with innovative results especially in the area of nuclear disarmament. This year we all know is a very important anniversary year marking 20 years of 1325 and the Beijing Conference which preceded it and it's really great I think that we're continuing the conversations and the learnings from so many excellent WPS events which have already happened this year. We're taking that conversation on into November and hopefully beyond and as I'm sure we'll come to in our discussions it's really important that this conversation and this focus continues beyond one day or one month. Here at the Embassy to give you some background we've taken the opportunity of this anniversary year to have a thematic approach to all of our work which we called Visible Women 2020 and we've chosen to use the whole year to focus on female role models and to amplify the voices and celebrate the contributions of women. Just last week we helped to launch an important new guide on gender inclusivity in peace and security with really useful advice and best practice examples on how to implement 1325 including on overcoming resistance because implementation is always the most challenging part and you can find more details of the guide and the link to watch the event back on our Twitter account. The harrowing experience of COVID this year has really served to further highlight the risks around persistent inequalities and the need for a gender perspective and an inclusive response so I think our dialogue here today is even more timely and necessary now. At some point and that day is coming I'm sure we no longer be talking about the first woman to do X or Y because this will no longer be an issue or notable but for as long as we have these firsts then I do believe it's important we pay attention to them and we celebrate them as achievements as role models to enhance our awareness and our learning and here in my post-country Belgium for example we currently have for the first time women recently appointed in the new government in the roles of minister for foreign affairs minister for defense and also the acting head of foreign ministry at present all very positive and impressive signals of diversity and inclusivity which is so important for the decision-making and our work. So to conclude then we could hardly do better in terms of role models from Ireland on diplomacy peace and security than the great panel of women leaders we have here today each of whom are trailblazers in their own careers and as senior leaders in their organizations and I'd include you in this Maria as our former ambassador to the political and security community as well as much earlier in your career blazing a trail as a young diplomat when you remember with the bilateral embassy here when it was actually the first ever world female embassy in the Irish diplomatic network I was very proud to follow in the footsteps of our first woman ambassador here Mary Tinney your colleague almost 40 years later and we decided to make Ambassador Tinney's achievement more visible here too by putting some photographs up around the walls and naming her a conference room in her honor and if participants would like to learn more about the history of Irish women in diplomacy I can recommend a brand new publication by Dr Emily O'Brien entitled the ideal diplomat and I'm deliberately removing the question mark that was in the original title and we'll also be bringing out a special visible women newsletter from the embassy in December reviewing all of our work on this agenda this year so I'm especially pleased today that we're going to hear from three senior leaders from the Department of Foreign Affairs the Department of Defense and from the Irish Defense Forces given the importance of these three sets of relationships and the synergies between them including here in our partnership for peace delegation where we have a very strong focus on the WPS agenda and given that we now as departments chair the same minister for both foreign affairs and for defense the first time in our history so I'm delighted to have been able to work with you and our friends in the IIA to bring together this initiative honored to be sharing the platform with these expert speakers I'm really looking forward to hearing from them and to the conversation so I'll hand back to you now Marie to introduce the panel thank you so much thank you very much indeed Helena and congratulations to you and the staff and the embassy in Brussels for the very extensive agenda that you have set up for this year so now I move to introduce our panelists and if I could move to Brigadier General O'Brien it's a pleasure to welcome Brigadier General O'Brien as the most senior woman starving in the Irish Defense Forces and the first Irish woman to have achieved the rank of Brigadier General she is the deputy force commander of the UN disengagement observer force in the Golan Heights and has an extensive overseas experience in Lebanon western Sahara each East Timor chat and Sarajevo and she's coming to us this afternoon from the Syrian side of the Golan Heights the most welcome Brigadier General O'Brien and thank you Barry and thank you everybody Ambassador Nolan and distinguished panelists and ladies and gentlemen and thank you for that introduction yeah I am speaking to you today from Campoir on the Golan in Syria where I'm serving as the deputy force commander of UNDOF and UNDOF as Marie explained is the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force this was established by UN Resolution 350 in 1974 following the Arab-Israeli War and is mandated to maintain a ceasefire between Israel and Syria we do this by observation from our 15 UN posts and by patrolling and reporting as well as conducting dialogue with both parties to the agreement this afternoon I want to briefly tell you a little bit about my career in the Defence Forces and I'll then discuss the impact of UN Resolution 1325 on the UNDOF mission as I see it and then after that reflect on the experiences that I have had as a senior leader I joined the Defence Forces in 1981 into an integrated class of both male and female cadets the fact that we trained alongside our male colleagues and that within a few years all cores and appointments were open to female is highly significant and a point I will return to later I've held many command and staff appointments throughout my 39 year service I'm being promoted to left and colonel I became the first officer a female officer to be appointed as a battalion commander when I was appointed to the 27th battalion in John Dock and Gormonston as a colonel I was appointed as the director of communications and information technology branch responsible for strategic and tactical communications and information systems including cyber as Mari mentioned I have extensive series overseas experience and I was in Lebanon three times with the UNIFIL mission sorry the pod just gone so it'll come back on the problem with in the camp and I was in Minerso in Western Sahara as a military observer I was in Entes in East Timor and out Timor Leste and in Minercat in Chad I was the battalion the deputy battalion commander and I was also seconded to the organization of security cooperation in Europe that's the OSE in Sarajevo in Bosnia Herzegrina for 18 months where I worked in the area of defense reform since September 2019 back out again since the September 2019 I have been deployed in the rank of Brigadier General commander of Undeath one month that thing in October 19 I took over as acting force commander and remained to that appointment until the end of July this year as we know UN resolution one three two five women peace and security is generally regarded as the most important commitment made by the global community to incorporate a gender perspective in the maintenance of peace and security because of the Security Council the UN Secretary General and UN Member States and other parties to take action in four interrelated areas of particular significance to me as a member of the defense forces is the area of participation of women in decision-making process and also increasing the number of women in field operations apart from this being a straightforward equality issue the UN recognizes that with better gender awareness and the presence of females in field missions the results will be better access to communication with local population with the international organizations the government organizations and the non-government organizations who would be improved operational effectiveness and enhanced overall security and situation awareness there will be better advice to the commander from which he can make better founded judicious and balanced decisions all leading to a safe and secure environment as a special advisor to the Secretary General said when women's inclusion and gender equality while gender while women's inclusion gender equality may not be a guarantee against conflict and order development their absence virtually ensures it simply put if you ignore the views and perspectives of over half the world's population you cannot have equality or lasting peace in undefined women make up 6.5 percent of the women of the milky component I have nine different nationalities represented in the mission and I'm very pleased to say that the Irish contingent has the largest representation of women at 10.3 percent this includes platoon commanders platoon sergeants moag APC drivers gunners and technicians this is where the integrated training I mentioned before has value Irish female personnel are not confined to support roles as females in most other armed forces have been up to quite recently indeed the main reason for the overall low number of female personnel in undefined is that the force is largely composed of combat related capabilities for some troop contributing countries these positions are only available to men and are women who have just joined their forces most of the other females in undefined as medical personnel translators and as staff officers in force headquarters when it comes to the increasing the numbers of female personnel in field missions I do have some concerns about extras being proposed by the UN when you review the literature surrounding UN resolution two one three two five it's clear that it almost entirely focuses on women as different from men both in terms of their particular vulnerabilities they face in situations of armed conflict and in terms of their potential contribution to peacekeeping efforts it espouses an essentialist approach to gender that is all the women all women have a specific set of characteristics and consequently all men have a different set of characteristics the problem with this essentialist approach is that it can be characterised by exaggerated claims of the unchanging essence of an individual but we want to bring peace out of conflict we are depending on people being able to change the reality is that people do change and are not one-dimensional women and men are far more complex and far more interesting than that I believe that the essentialist approach to gender and the and the celebration of women's difference to men can afford to be used to stereotype female peacekeepers and potentially discriminate an example will demonstrate my point a new initiative from the UN which is supposed to come into effect in 2021 is the requirement for each battalion to have an engagement platoon this engagement platoon is designed to improve the engagement of the military unit with the local population nothing wrong with that so far and the draft document suggests that the participation of female peacekeepers is an essential factor for the successful engagement with the local population the platoon must consist of at least 50 women 50 women I have two problems with this initiative there is an assumption that all female personnel even without the appropriate training are suited to this engagement role simply because they are women this is the essentialist approach approach again secondly given the low number of females in overseas operations in order to comply with this requirement female personnel may be diverted from other important roles which they have been trained for this approach however when will well suit the troop contributing countries where female personnel are still restricted to certain non-combatant roles however I personally do not believe this initiative will be successful in the Irish Defence Forces given the range of highly specialized roles being conducted by our female personnel at this time of course just increasing the numbers alone will not ensure equality the result of adding women and stirring can be mainly cosmetic UN resolution 1325 requires us to gender mainstream our policies and our plans that is to consider the implications of any planned action on men and women boys and girls it's imperative that the processes and policies are inclusive those who create policy must hear about the specific experiences of women and men because according to how we perceive women and men as different think and design policies that reflect this point of view the Defence Force female personnel network has helped in bringing a female voice to the policy makers in the Defence Forces for example the network identified a lack of family friendly appointments and overseas missions in particular ranks these family friendly appointments allow personnel to be deployed for three months rather than six months but it is when female personnel take up senior leadership roles that there is progress towards inequality of a voice and therefore an ability to contribute and to influence in my leadership role as acting force commander I feel I have been most able to add my voice and to influence as acting force commander I was responsible for ensuring the implementation of the mandate whereas the ceasefire between Israel and Syria has generally been maintained this does not mean that both parties do not on occasion violate the ceasefire agreement violations could range from the presence of shepherds on the wrong side of the ceasefire line to missile attacks within the area of responsibility all violations are protested to the party concerned and reported to the UN headquarters but when there are more serious violations including missile attacks I meet face to face with the relevant senior military leadership to call on them to exercise restraint and avoid any further activities that might lead to an escalation between the parties or indeed regionally these can be very tense occasions but by continuing to report what we observe with consistency and with accuracy I believe that both parties accept that they can rely on undef to report within partiality of course undef has also had to response to the COVID-19 pandemic in early March I set up a COVID-19 crisis management group and took a collaborative approach to this meeting to these meetings by including every member's perspective I could ensure buying in from the different contingents in the end however I was the one who had to make the unpopular decisions to restrict people's freedoms undef is currently implementing a detailed action plan designed to maintain operational capability and limit the potential for the spread of the virus within the mission when I reflect on my experiences with the UN and most recently with undef I asked myself have I made a difference even though this mission has limited access to the civilian population there are still very positively disposed to our presence and we are greeted by waving children when we patrol through the area of responsibility I have ensured that all undef personnel are safe and secure and have appropriate force protection and there have been no cases of COVID-19 thus far while still implementing our mandate have I made a difference because I'm a woman I don't have any strong opinions on that I know that who I am is a result of my values and my work ethic instilled in me by my parents which are complemented by the values of the defense forces and those of the United Nations the opportunities and experiences provided to me by the defense forces and by the United Nations have made me the leader I am today it has not always been easy but it has been very worthwhile thank you thank you very much indeed thank you very much indeed Brigadier General O'Brien that was a fascinating outline both of your work and from your personal point of view so now may I call upon Secretary General Jackie McCrum just to introduce the Secretary General she is the first woman to lead the Department of Defense as Secretary General previously she was Deputy Secretary General in the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection Director General and Accounting Officer in the office of Wombudsman and quite a number of other offices of state where she worked and indeed led so the floor is yours Secretary General we look forward to hearing you thank you Mary good afternoon everyone and thank you Mary and Ambassador Nolan for inviting me to join in this occasion and hello also to my fellow panelists Maureen and Sanya and I'd like to deal with some policy first and then some personal reflections on my own journey to this position Ireland is a strong supporter of the Women Peace and Security Agenda this agenda recognizes both particularly adverse effect of conflict on women and girls as well as their critical role in conflict prevention peace negotiations peace building and governance in June last year Ireland launched its third national action plan for United States Nations Security Council resolution 1325 on women peace and security which among other issues identified the promotion of women in peace mediation and negotiations as a priority two years ago we marked the 20th anniversary of Good Friday Agreement the hallmark of the peace process in Northern Ireland and one in which women played a key role in bringing around about sustainable peace from Ireland's perspective with our long and well respected history of participating in peacekeeping missions we believe that the integration of a generate the gender perspective to achieve gender equality and improve gender balance are not only a matter of principle or policy but a matter of operational necessity and effectiveness it is recognized that the presence of women contributes greatly with resolving conflict and connecting with local populations it broadens the skill sets available within a peacekeeping mission and importantly provides role models for women both at home and abroad equitable durable and sustainable peace and reconciliation cannot be built without women at the table women's meaningful participation at all levels is the key to sustainable peace and Maureen very eloquently covered this point in her in her address unfortunately as the global security landscape has developed over the last number of years it has regrettably not developed for the better women and children continue to be deliberately targeted and their rights to life to physical integrity to protection in displacement continue to be grossly violated so we need to continue to develop and reinforce our actions the defense forces own women peace and security action plan has commitment to the comprehensive training of peacekeepers on the gendered impacts of conflict and increasing the participation of women in peacekeeping missions each overseas deployed unit has a gender focal unit and there is continued training of personnel selected for overseas deployments in order to incorporate a gender perspective into the planning and execution of overseas operations in terms of participation a key strategic objective of the defense organization is the examination of women's participation at senior decision-making and leadership levels since the first defense forces action plan in 2011 the percentage of females in middle management in senior ranks has increased from 1.75 to just under 5 percent the number of female personnel deployed in overseas operations has increased from 3.5 to 7 percent however the number of females employed in the defense forces has made a modest increase from 6 percent to 7 percent during that time we will continue to develop and implement targeted recruitment strategies aimed at increasing the number of women in the defense forces some of the initiatives include identifying measures to examine retention measures and identifying actual or perceived barriers to progression more in detail some of the other initiatives such as the family friendly policies in addition the gender force the defense forces is continuing to work towards the targets identified in the un gender parity strategy whereby 15 percent women will be expected to be in contingent troops by 2028 a very ambitious target for sure that presents significant challenges within the department of defense I as Mari said I'm the first female secretary general of defense in the history of the state and my colleague Claire Tiernan is the first female member of the current management board the department currently has 40 percent female representation at management board level together with 40 percent female representation at principal officer or senior management level it's a healthy situation and why it's good we cannot be complacent we need to do more to continue to provide opportunities and encourage females to apply for these higher level appointments and move seamlessly into decision making and leadership positions last month was designated women peace and security month by the united nations so today I'd like to pay a particular tribute to my colleague Brigadier General Maureen O'Brien and all of the 40 women of the Irish defense forces currently serving overseas across all overseas missions my female colleagues in both the department of defense and the defense forces continue to break down barriers and in our own areas deliver first class public service and represent our country with distinction on the international stage as Ireland prepares to take our seat as an elected member of the UN security council in January 2021 we will work to ensure that we highlight highlight the role of women peace builders minister Simon Covey reminded us in October in a speech that Ireland is firmly committed to advancing women's inclusion in all aspects of peace and security notwithstanding these commitments and plans the world we live in including our own country presents significant challenges for females and I'd like to reflect on a few thoughts it is widely acknowledged that at times of conflict women and girls are disproportionately affected through rape and violence in Ireland and globally evidence suggests that incidents of domestic abuse have risen since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic in March this year despite better educational outcomes by women they do not continue on this trajectory as time moves on and significantly occupy less influential positions than our male counterparts who remain the principal decision makers in Irish society this lack of female voices in decision making and leadership positions means that female experiences are excluded from policies and strategies Mary Robinson our our previous Irish president and United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights said it's only when you have a critical mass of women in politics that you get women's issues attacked we need to ensure that critical mass is developed in all aspects of work a recent McKinsey report found an irrefutable correlation between gender diversity and greater profitability we need to move from a situation where gender quotas are deemed necessary or appropriate whilst huge progress has been made during my working life to change ingrained practices and attitudes in society which collectively held back women and girls from achieving their true potential more needs to be done however the landscape is changing i do believe we have an expanding cohort of leaders both male and female who recognize the value of gender equality and its necessity in terms of accessing the most talented workforce you can have we are getting to a point where it is recognized that gains for women lead to increased opportunities for greater economic prosperity for all and are not just seen as lost opportunities for men so moving on then to how did i get here i started work back in the day in 1982 having completed a secretarial course and got my first job in a leading Irish bank in 1985 where little or no opportunities in Irish banking due to the severe economic recession i asked for a transfer and moved to London bringing with me two suitcases 15 years later i returned to Ireland on a return transfer with a husband two children and a truck full of stuff i worked in branches dealing face-to-face customers daily in head office positions and generally moved to new roles are took on change responsibilities every three to five years i gained both frontline and leadership experience and filled a number of senior roles both in London and Dublin in 2013 as Ireland was returning to growth i requested a salary increase as i had evidence that other male colleagues had received saying this regrettably was refused in my anger i decided that after 31 years i needed to move and hence i went searching i applied for and was successful in being appointed to the position of deputy financial services ombudsman this was a huge huge decision for me to leave an organization that i had worked with for 31 years to leave a culture i knew to go on probation at a lower income and to become an outsider instead of a lifer the bank did then offer me a salary increase but my husband encouraged me to go with my heart so off i went then on this journey into public and civil service in 2015 i applied for an occupation of director general in the office of the ombudsman dealing with public services as i transitioned from corporate public services relationships became very important i've always placed huge emphasis on engagement with everyone involved from bottom to top internal and external this approach has stood me very well in all of the positions i have held the importance of a leader having a supportive team cannot be underestimated i got itchy feet again in 2018 when i spotted a position as deputy secretary in the department of employment affairs and social protection and once again i lurched into the rigors of the top level appointments committee process this was the position i held until august this year bought a time to work in this department this year required myself the secretary general there and all of the management team to dig the deepest we have ever done in our working lives to deliver and support excellent public service as a management team we had to use our innovative skills against the clock to develop the pandemic unemployment payment and then deliver that to an unprecedented number of customers in the history of the department this together with the challenge of keeping our offices open to serve our most vulnerable customers when the bogeyman of covid-19 was very scary and everyone else was retreating back to home was enormous but i salute the dsp team for a first-class job and wish them well as they continue to do so to get back to the story in the middle of this my current position as secretary general of defense was advertised i have to credit my boss john mccown with pushing me to consider it he swore he wasn't trying to get rid of me but seriously without this nudge i would not be here today and thank you john for that last weekend i was walking on the rocks in rush county dublin with my sister angeline brother michael reliving our youth and remembering my first job as a winkle picker in our youth it is very hard to imagine where you might end up or how you will get there i have worked since i was 18 years of age with 12 weeks and 14 weeks maternity leave for both my children cameron and freya that was all that was allowed at the time i've had post-natal depression twice and for my 50th birthday i developed late onset type one diabetes resulting in my current five injections of insulin daily am i superwoman most certainly not making changes and dealing with life's challenges is not easy it requires effort energy drive and tenacity to get there you need your support team you will cry at times you will be on your knees you will meet resistance you will think of chucking it in but the next day you dust yourself off and start again i credit myself with the tenacity and determination to be the best i could but i didn't get to hear on my own enormous credit has to go to my husband maras who has provided me with unswerving support and pushed me to achieve my ambitions in particular that first major move in 2013 and all those other moves over the last number of years i also credit all of my bosses my family and friends for their support also it is funny to think that i started my working career with the title of secretary in the bank and hopefully if i pass my probation this year i will progress towards the latter of my career with the same title but at a different level confidence is a huge challenge to making those changes and having the ability to believe in yourself you need to have your key supporters around whether that be family friends or colleagues to give you the nudge and keep you upright i am so lucky to have had that so two references that i would like to make in summary one is to the fearless girl statue in new york which is that of a bronze girl who stands with her hands on her hips and chin held high she is seen as a symbol of female empowerment and at her feet there is a plaque that reads know the power of women in leadership she makes a difference she stands as a beacon showing women young and old that no dream is too big and no ceiling is too high the other references to kamala harris the first vice president elect in the united states of america in her victory speech last week she spoke of possibilities sending a powerful message of hope and courage to women and young girls worldwide as she said while i may be the first woman in this office i will not be the last and i think more insanya and i connect with those words today in summary i am actually privileged and proud to hold this position as secretary general of the department of defense i take the responsibility and its impact in all aspects of policy operations and support of colleagues of all gender in my term in this office i'm committing to make a difference by leading and delivering on our objectives in the defense organization so i leave you now with a quote from winnie the pooh and piglet maybe not a normal one for a business event but one which has resonance with me promise me you will always remember you're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem and smarter than you think thank you for your time today thank you very much indeed jackie that was really inspirational and something we will certainly take away and remember could i hand the floor now to sonia highland and just to introduce sonia sonia is the first woman to serve as political director in the department of foreign affairs she has also served as ireland's ambassador to ethiopia credit it also to south sudan jibouti and the african union and as ireland's ambassador to mexico of course she also had responsibility for cuba el salvador nicaragua costa rica venezuela colombia and peru and sonia is at the moment leading our team at headquarters as we've prepared to take up our seat on the un security council particularly your period 2021 the floor is yours sonia we look forward to hearing from you thank you very much mary and the breeder general and and the secretary general have already spoke in some detail on the women peace and security agenda particularly as it affects the defense forces on ireland and peacekeeping more broadly and have also given really fascinating insights into their own experiences as women in leadership so i'll try and keep my intervention short to maximize the time for for q and a maybe just really two reflections on the women peace and security agenda particularly as it applies to diplomacy and two reflections on the issue of women in leadership first as jackie already said there is very strong research evidence including from mckinsey but also from the world economic forum and others that businesses with more diverse boards and senior management do better in commercial terms and the research suggests that this is for two reasons and again both breeder general and the sec gen have mentioned this first because a higher proportion of women in senior positions indicates that the company is better overall at utilizing the broadest talent base possible and second because diversity in and of itself results in more rigorous decision making it's much easier to combat groupthink and outdated assumptions if the group in question is made up of individuals with diverse perspectives and experiences in the peace and security and in the diplomacy field the outcome we're looking for is not commercial success is to contribute to securing national security and global security the new york based council on foreign relations issued a paper last week about revitalizing the us state department in which the authors argued pretty persuasively in my view that diversity needs to be seen as a national security priority in the u.s the senior foreign services 90 white and 69 male in the Irish department of foreign affairs we don't track ethnicity but the percentage of women at head of mission level is 33 percent and at the most senior grades which is assistant secretary and upwards is less than 30 percent the civil service management board has just four women at secretary general level out of 23 when I joined the department in 1996 the gender ratio at third secretary level which is the entry grade for diplomats was roughly 55 male and 45 female and the fact that those percentages are not coming through 24 years later at senior management level suggests that despite significant improvements we haven't yet built a culture that recognizes and promotes talented people in a gender cognizant way second point on women peace and security is that it's not a woman's agenda it's an agenda for everyone yet every panel I've ever participated on to discuss women peace and security has either been composed solely of women or mainly of women my personal belief is that as long as the implementation of UN Security Council resolution 1325 is seen as a sort of a side issue that lives in a female thematic bubble of its own it'll never deliver on its promise like the Brigadier General I'm not a gender essentialist the reason that we need more women in the peace and security arena is not because women are innately more cooperative more empathetic more patient or less aggressive and I know there's a number of colleagues online today who've worked with me and I think they would probably say I'm the most impatient person possibly in the world but certainly in the department so maybe that's why I'm not a gender essentialist but we already do have evidence that most that more diverse organizations are more innovative and more effective and we also know that the percentages globally of women in militaries in peacekeeping in peace negotiations and in diplomacy at a senior level are absolutely tiny my own experience of always being in a minority in diplomacy in gender terms and particularly as a senior diplomat and that's also particularly when I've worked on security and defense issues suggests to me that the experience of being an outsider can be utilized to inform a more rigorous and a more interrogated foreign policy understanding and experience how unconscious bias often leads to outcomes that disadvantage women and other groups that are excluded from political and economic power is a pretty good basis I think not only for an ethical foreign policy but also for an intelligent and an effective one so unless someone can show me persuasive research evidence that white men between 50 and 65 are uniquely genetically skilled at decision making in peace and security issues I think there's a really strong case to be made that the under representation of women in the security and defense field represents a significant and an unnecessary risk to good policymaking and diplomatic practice and it's not female leaders that are responsible for changing this it's all leaders two points on women in leadership first we need to look at structures and second we need to look at culture and attitudes on structures the statistics I quoted earlier where we see similar percentages of women and men starting a diplomatic career but the pipeline narrowing in the more senior ranks speaks to the need to get the structures right the Irish civil service does have the huge advantage of what Cheryl Sandberg used to call on ramps and off ramps we offer career breaks flexible working parental leave and other family friendly or more accurately human friendly options but we also need to embed a culture where balancing family and work life isn't seen as a permanent decision to jump onto the mammy track or indeed the daddy track and stay there forever in a 45 year career a couple of years out or spending time working part time or flexibly need not brand us as less committed engaged or ambitious than those who work in a more traditional pattern and I know that in my own case availing of parental leave to work a four day week when my children were younger was instrumental in maintaining some level of balance between family and professional commitments at a particular time period and these options in the civil service and in the public service in general should give us a huge advantage in terms of attracting and recruiting talent male and female culture and attitudes matter too many women in senior positions are familiar with the experience of being the only woman at a meeting or attending events and listening to manl after manl after manl one of the more memorable examples in my own career was sitting in the audience at the annual conference of one of the main business organizations of a country that I was accredited to it was attended by many of the most senior people in government including the head of government of the country concerned the opening ceremony involved 32 senior national and regional government officials and the CEOs of companies sponsoring the events all up on the stage all were men there was one woman on the stage whose job it was to bring the scissors with which the ribbon was cut and outside there was an expo style area in which the company's attending had their stands where numerous women were advertising a large meat company by wearing extremely short red dresses with cut out panels just above their cleavage with the slogan your meat written on them now that happened to be the name of the company but it didn't take a genius to get the double entendre I'm pretty thick skin but it can be hard not to feel alienated and excluded in that type of environment although that type of experience is probably rare enough in Ireland we still need to look out for more subtle forms of discrimination one of the things that I've noticed in recent years as we get nearer to gender parity and senior leadership is the view that female officers who've just been moved into prestigious jobs for instance only got them because they were a woman or that for instance in the civil service promotion panels with equal number of both genders only come about because the interview board was told that they had to put 50% women on the panel and I think there's something very insidious about the idea that anything other than a small number of women in senior decision making positions must be a sign of tokenism rather than evidence that organizations are getting better at removing barriers to women's advancement and identifying talent and I'm sometimes reminded of the headlines in the UK in 2017 when the then Prime Minister Theresa May undertook a cabinet reshuffle the Daily Mail and the Times ran respectively with massacre of the middle aged men and white men booted out in May's push for women and ethnic minorities and this was based on a reshuffle during which the percentage of men in government went from 75% to 70 the number of white government members reduced from 113 to 111 and the average age plummeted from 52 to 51 as the Guardian columnist wrote afterwards as massacres go this was one with a curiously high number of survivors finally I just want to go back to a point that I made earlier the women peace and security agenda is not only for women I'd really like to hear more from male champions of this agenda and I would really urge organizations to look to some of their senior men to lead on this this is certainly something that we want to try and do during our security council term female leaders don't have so responsibility for gender equality we absolutely need to look at lack of diversity at senior level from the perspective of organizational effectiveness of risk and I think as the paper from the council on foreign relations argues as a national security priority the global peace and security challenges facing us are far too urgent and far too grave to leave this on the long finger any longer thank you thank you very much indeed Sanyath for that pretty powerful speech and that was really resonates so we will move to the Q&A but before we open it to the floor we have a particular guest that I would like to give the opportunity to pose the first question and that is Nora Owen Nora is joining us today who is certainly one of the trade leaders good afternoon Nora and I know you have a question but Nora just to introduce us former minister for justice and is our present chair of the oversight group for Ireland's women peace and security action plan so you're very welcome Nora but I know you have a question to pose to the panel so the floor is yours thank you very much indeed Mary I mean I start by thanking the wonderful speeches just we've just heard from Maureen and Sonya and Jackie and thank you for at times bringing in a little bit of humor in order to get across the point because I think that's very important and I had great empathy with what a lot was said after 25 years in elected politics now some of you will have already touched on this but just given the importance of having women peacekeepers in missions particularly in conflict areas and perhaps having to deal with the serious gender violence that goes on in camps etc what policies need to be implemented to encourage and just as importantly to maintain women in the defence forces to ensure that we do get that balance that all three of you have spoken about because I understand the figures are going up but very slowly and perhaps Maureen might tell us what other policies need to be implemented as well as the other two speakers thank you very much so if I could hand the floor to you Brigadier General O'Brien to take Nora's question first Maureen could you unmute sorry so I believe there are two parts to that question Nora sorry the first part is about the gender violence gender-based violence side and the third action plan for the defence forces outlines our plans to conduct traditional training for military police and we're going to extend that to medical personnel for training in that area it's highly specialised in terms of then getting more women into the defence forces first of all I wouldn't believe that most females would join to do that work first they would join to be soldiers and I suppose in common with trying to get more people into the defence forces in general it is difficult in this climate and you'll be aware of the issues that are there regarding pay etc so I'd be surprised if females wanted to join the army more than men wanted to join the army in that case but we have ideas about targeting women in particular so like going back to the fact that there are the career guidance pictures rarely present to the defence forces as being a good job for females they just don't think about it I think we've to educate those people first but also parents and mostly it has to be said the men who think that being in the defence forces is not a super place for their daughter so I think we're doing our best in that and identifying that it is a place for females and if you want to progress either professionally but also in education as well that we have additional education progress for women and men who want to join the defence forces so all in all it is a good job and I think we have to work with women in particular maybe work with sports clubs etc because we need people who are active in particular I hope that answers your question Aura thank you Mary I don't think you Mary you're on mute now okay yeah sorry that's the most overused you're on mute I think it's the most overused phrase these days and I wonder if Secretary General McCromb Jackie do you want to add anything yes I mean I had to say that you know in researching for this now I have to admit that I'm on week 13 now in the job so and Maureen has been very helpful in giving me some details and my other colleagues but you know the percentage and the number of females employed in the defence forces has really only the diet has only turned very slowly in the last nine years and like from six percent to seven percent and that's not without the ambition there to grow that and I think we need to do some further research you know and and you know the various you know family friendly policies the barriers have been looked at and various other things have been done but we need to do more because it is a good job I am and you know in terms of the support that you're given and you know the education that you're given you know it is it is very rewarding again to hear the voice of somebody like Maureen who has been who is a leader and you know to encourage people to do that and I think you're right Maureen I was talking I talked to one of the officers who was heading off and I went up to Dundalk when the troops were heading off there a few weeks ago and one of the female members had said to me that you know her family had actively dissuaded her from joining the army for a number of years so she had gone to university she had gone into a marketing degree had worked in that industry for a number of years and then she just went back to what she wanted to do anyway which was join the army and now she was heading off on her first overseas mission so I look forward to welcoming her back and and seeing what has been her experience and hopefully it's been all good but you know the minister the chief of staff and myself are very determined to move this dial and with the help of Maureen and other colleagues that's what we intend to do so we would be putting our best foot forward and hopefully if we're here in another year or two we might have a different story yes thank you Mary you're on mute again yeah sorry this isn't working very so Sonja do you want to add anything to that I want to add to that because it's very specific I think to the defense forces so I'll come in on other issues thank you okay okay I I've had a similar question also from retired Brigadier General Pedro Hanlon and I think I hope that that has been answered a couple we have several more questions here today and I have one here from the Norwegian ambassador to Ireland who thanks you all for your leadership and presentations and Ireland and Norway will soon join the security council together having been successful in this competition and ambassador as Gareth says we need to close the gap between the UN Security Council Women Peace and Security policies and its implementation how can we ensure that the actors with specific responsibilities for implementation of women peace security priorities are being held accountable Sonja you might like to deal with that from thanks Mary yeah I mean I absolutely agree I think it's key that we don't just have women peace security over in a corner and look at it take it out and look at it every October which is women peace and security month and have them out of good debates and then put it back in the box until the following October and I think one specific way in terms of the UN Security Council is to make sure that the women peace security agenda is properly implemented and mainstreamed into for instance the mandates of peacekeeping missions and also the mandates of special UN special political missions so all of the UN peacekeeping operations are mandated by the UN Security Council and all of the special political missions so the Secretary General's special envoys for instance or special representatives of the Secretary General those mandates are also approved by the Security Council so for Ireland it's really a once in a generation opportunity for us to actually be at the council table and be part of the approval process the negotiation and the approval process of those mandates and I think this to me is one of the ways that we can really make sure that there's proper implementation and hold leaders to account by making sure that the women peace and security agenda is properly implemented into peacekeeping mandates and properly implemented into the mandates or the terms of reference for all of the UN Secretary General's special envoys and special representatives who are managing political missions across the world. There's also an expert working group under the UN Security Council which deals with women peace and security issues and one of the things that we would like to see and contribute to is make sure that that working group again is calling is holding to account is calling the heads of peacekeeping missions the heads of special political missions into that group to talk about how they are implementing and the extent to which they're implementing the women peace and security part of their mandate and to make sure that that's done for six eight weeks out before the mandate is renewed so that we get proper in time information and intelligence and are able to hold to account the people who are leading the missions and judge the extent to which they are adequately implementing it but also the extent to which their mandate gives them the mandate to do so and whether the language in the mandate and the tasking in the mandate is correct in terms of what women peace security agenda elements have to be implemented so that when we go to negotiate the mandate or to be part of the negotiations for the mandate we've heard directly from the leaders in the field as to whether those mandates are sufficient and also whether they're implementing those mandates so I think that's one of the core ideas that we want to take to the Council on this. Thank you very much indeed Sonja. I have another question here from I think former colleague of Brigadier General Bryan Starriford Sturl and that he would like to congratulate Brigadier General Moreno for her achievements on the Golan Heights and he says has gender engagement been challenging when you face different nationalities in different cultures within the UN force the local population and the military forces involved what would you like to see improved most of all? Thank you and thank you to the question and I have found actually that engagement where I came over here first you know I was thinking I'm going to have to engage with the senior Brigadier General in the Syrian armed forces and also a senior Brigadier General in the Israeli forces and I wondered about how that would work especially in the Syrian force but I have to say I've been accepted because of the appointment I hold and the rank I hold and also when they figure out that you're not just a token woman that you actually are the person who's doing the job I think they're very conscious that they have to work together they also have to work because I they have to work with me because ultimately I write reports to UN headquarters that are then part of the Secretary-General's reports so it is important that we have a connection between each other so in terms of different cultures I haven't had a problem date I'm very conscious of course in this mission because we have nine different nationalities and all with different cultures I have found that and particularly only a few weeks ago I said something that I thought was funny but one person did not appreciate it so I obviously first thing apologize that the art of apology apologize fully for what what I had said not understanding what he had what he had taken from it so I think those are important but what interestingly we do do cultural awareness courses in the UN school in in the Kora which is also quite helpful you know what the gender norms are and you don't necessarily have to fight against it you have to understand it interestingly I did have to visit the the ambassador of Iran to ask him to stop essentially stop fighting and stop bringing his personnel over in Syria and but the gender norm there was there was that I had to wear a scarf over my head and I did that because I was making the journey to his to his office and it was actually a representative of Iran and it was a piece of Iran I was visiting so I think you have to be culture aware but I haven't had any difficulties and I think that's down to the rank and being taken seriously in my appointment thank you indeed I have another question here from Catherine Wright of Newcastle University and she said how do we better challenge the essentializing idea which as Brigadier General points or Brian points out underpins much women peace and security discourse while also calling for women's better inclusion in the WPS agenda so Jackie perhaps you might you might deal with this how do you actually bring the women peace and security discourse into a more open area which wouldn't allow for women to be more involved in that area sorry apologies and I think that Sonia has covered off quite a lot of what our ambitions are we're very privileged and delighted to accept this seat on the UN Security Council and I think that would be our area where we can hide the work of women peace builders and certainly you know commit to advancing that inclusion in all aspects of peace and security so you know from our perspective as a department we are working significantly with the department that of foreign affairs which is the one that Sonia is in we have we actually share a minister which is unusual in that for the first time ever we share a minister in both of the departments but I think that will serve actually to you know to develop a cohesive approach and a strategy towards you know improving the discourse on this very important subject thank you very much indeed Jackie I have a question also now from the ambassador Adrian Pham the ambassador of the Netherlands and he makes an interesting point which I think either Sonia or Brigadier General O'Brien particularly he said that the situation of women in peace and security is improving in the EU but elsewhere in the world we hard to see any progress and not only as far as books on the ground are concerned but also for example in peace negotiations so we asked what can we do to improve that and are there best practices we can put forward towards countries involved in conflict perhaps Brigadier General O'Brien and then maybe Jackie or maybe Sonia you have a good answer that Brigadier O'Brien Mary unfortunately I wouldn't have much experience in peace negotiations in that regard sorry I don't know enough about that to to have an opinion I'm afraid right okay well Sonia do you have any any point of view to put forward on on why women elsewhere are not doing so well thanks yeah I mean I think in terms of the ambassador's question which as I understand it is sort of how can we support or how can we how can we facilitate women elsewhere in the world to engage on the women peace security agenda I mean I think the first thing is I'm not 100% sure that I agree that you know in the EU we're doing well and outside we're not I mean I think there are really good examples of for instance in Colombia the Colombian peace process there was very strong participation of women throughout the negotiations both on the Colombian government side and on the FARC side and actually it was the first peace process in the world and the first peace negotiation in the world and the first peace agreement in the world that had what was called a gender table or subgroup on gender from the very very beginning and actually if you read the Colombian peace agreement it's incredibly well suffused through with a gender lens as well also as a lens on issues like ethnicity as well which is a huge issue in the in the Colombian conflict also in terms of things like decision making if you look at a country for instance like Rwanda it has extremely high numbers of percentages of women in decision making particularly in diplomacy and particularly in some of the tougher and the more peace and security aspects of diplomacy so I think it's I think it's more nuanced than than just saying Europe's doing well everyone else is not doing well I mean I think having said that one of the things that we have done a lot in Ireland and I've been involved directly myself in Colombia and in Ethiopia is bringing our experience of women in peace building and women in peace negotiations in particular from Northern Ireland or from the island of Ireland and share those experiences so for instance we brought a variety of women who were involved in the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement but also various stages of the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement particularly around security sector reform and policing to Colombia and had a fantastic a couple of days then meeting across civil society government police defense forces in Colombia to share the experience and what we learned and what worked and what didn't work we did the same Monica McWilliams came to Ethiopia we did the same in Ethiopia and with both specifically in the Somali region and where we had a situation where two groups which had formally been terrorist groups the ONLF and another smaller group had just been brought back from Eritrea into this into the Somali region and there were real difficulties around the DDR process and around reintegration in particular of of combatants and but also more broadly in Ethiopia and she spent a number of days again speaking with the Ethiopian government speaking with NGOs speaking with Somali regional government meeting with the ONLF which was the movement in question to talk about her experiences and the experiences of women in Northern Ireland and I think that's one of the things that we really want to try and do on the Security Council also is to take into the council our own learned our own lived experience in Ireland and particularly the fact that it's not it's not simple it's not a linear process it's not a straightforward process it has ups and downs and it's very context specific but at the same time there are universal lessons that can be learned from it and so I would say that that's probably one of the ways that we can most usefully engage but again I think there's cross learning here I don't think it's only Europe out to the rest of the world. Thank you very much indeed Sam. I have a question here from Ruth Beanie who is the Civil Political Affairs Officer in the UN mission in South Sudan coming coming to us a long way and she puts a difficult question how do good relationships and generation atmosphere of accountability when violations take place and that is the top one I don't know. Do you have a view on that because you are out in the field and you will no doubt have observed difficulties in this regard? Yeah and my experience has been that when there are serious violations in particular ones that put my troops at risk in terms of security I do a one-on-one I meet the particular general and I explain to them what they are doing and they give me another explanation why they are doing what they are doing and I point out to both sides when they're making excuses you did that so we did this that they both have obligations according to the agreement whether which the other side applies or not and it I think it does this discussion certainly helps in the decisions that they make subsequently whether or not to make similar attacks or do similar have similar kinetic activity I think they think twice but not always because in certain in one of the parties that are involved the decision to do to attack or to do or something like that is met at a very low level not at a high level that's just the ways that the troops in this particular case are organized but generally I find continuing to talk about the effect and their responsibilities and they understand that I bring this forward again unfortunately undefined doesn't have a political pillar so it's my responsibility to bring these to the attention of the of UN headquarters and also I on a twice a year we we talk to all the ambassadors involved so they're aware they're aware of what's going on it can bring this to the attention and work with the parties in UN headquarters as well thank you very much indeed thank you I have another question here on the question of training and I want to put this to to Jackie, Secretary General and Jackie we have a training training school in in the Cara Jack do you feel that there's an opening that we could have a cadre of women from other countries which we do have in in that school that we could train women peacekeepers is there is there a an opening for that kind of training and I thank you Mari I think there are we do have significant ambitions for that school and I'm sorry to say that I haven't I got down to the Cara wants to talk to staff and command course just once in the last 12 or 13 weeks but I haven't explored all of it but certainly there is a wonderful wonderful resource there and it's only hampered by our ability to just get to get to that point and and to deliver it but I do think that there is a huge option for us to utilize that resource in a more effective way and perhaps you know certainly during this time when we can't be be sharing and and meeting as as often as we should do that it's probably a time that we will we will look to to plan and operationalize that but no I do agree it's a resource and you know the Defence Forces are always very keen to share their experiences their learning and you know showcase to to people that would like to use it thank you very much and I think it really has a is a potential resource for the future and I come in there just very briefly Mari just because it's something that in recent just in the last two or three years and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Department of Defense and the Defence Force have worked together actually on this a little bit and we've provided some funding for for troops from various different countries all around the world a lot of particularly from African partners to come to do the training at UNC some around women peace security some around a whole range of other issues protection of civilians and a whole range of other issues that that are absolutely key for peacekeeping but don't necessarily get integrated into training modules in other parts of the world but which we're I think particularly good at so hopefully hopefully we can as Jackie said continue to work on that because I think it's something for both departments actually to to focus on and it's an incredibly valuable tool and an incredibly valuable tool to share with militaries from across the world. Yes I think so and that has been the case that you had quite a number of military so I'm afraid time is moving on we still have a lot of questions but I had just time for one more and it's it's it's quite a provocative one it's from Iphone Arul and it's it's to saying there's a growing tend towards a feminist foreign policy including in a number of arms exporting states in Europe I presume if as is referring to and should Ireland adopt a feminist foreign policy I'll give you that Sonya as well to wrap up. Thank you and good question I mean I think certainly we we do have already but we can certainly improve on and we should be we aren't proving on but we should be improving on quick more quickly a foreign policy I think that takes a gender lens and mainly in the development sphere but as Helena mentioned for instance in the disarmament sphere Helena herself as Disarmament Director did really extraordinary work on that and in the peace and security sphere we've got a got a strong focus on women peace and security and so I think across most of our foreign policy priorities we have integrated gender and gender issues pretty well I suppose what I don't know is what's the difference between that and a feminist foreign policy and that's you know that's not trying to avoid the question it's actually a genuine a genuine issue one thing I would say is that we had just recently we have done what we call the foreign policy startup and basically anybody from the department at any level locally employed staff or or core staff of the department employed by HQ were allowed to put in ideas for a new innovative ideas around foreign policy and the one that was chosen had nothing to do with gender but the one that came runner up was should Ireland adopt a feminist foreign policy and we decided that although it didn't actually win the competition we were going to try and work with the colleague who put that in to try and work through what might that mean and what might that look like and she's currently ironically in a posting which is in the middle of a particularly egregious awful peace and security issue at the moment mid conflict so she's probably focusing on that at the moment rather than the feminist foreign policy part but hopefully in the next in the next couple of months we'll be able to work with her to work through what that might look like that's very interesting that there's a coalescence of ideas there I think it probably arose at the speaker we had a few months ago the Swedish foreign minister I think they have specifically adopted a Swedish feminist foreign policy so that may be the generation of the idea I'm afraid I must run out I must apologize for all those people who didn't lose questions I didn't get around to there were some interesting ones but could I take the chance to thank you the panellists in particular most sincerely brother general Mario Brian and Secretary-General Jackie McCorm and Sonja Highland and also particularly thanks to Halina Nolan who generated the idea but we wish you all well and more in the golden heights and Jackie in starting off on this new adventure you've had plenty so far so I'm sure this would be as exciting as ever and of course Sonja as you take on on the first of January the security council challenge we wish you all well and we thank you most sincerely for joining us today I think it's been a very rich discussion and we all really gained thank you all sincerely and very best wishes