 if you want to root for peace, for justice, but if you cannot defend it, then that's empty. That's just a wishful thinking. But if you have the strength to back it up, the moral strength, the spiritual, the mind strength, and the physical capability of defending it, you are really a pacifist because you can be, you know, a bad person, but you decide to go for like the good way, justice and peace and keep things good. I think that has a lot of value. A lot of people that turn to martial arts specifically to Aikido, they want to follow and defend this idea of peace, but they cannot physically defend it. Do you just have that, you know, preset idea that, oh, you know, if there's conflict, like, you know, I'm going to avoid it? Well, sometimes you can't. Sometimes you got to stand your ground and defend yourself or defend some other people. So if you don't have the capability of, you know, technically and physically of doing that, then that's not much of a, you know, peaceful warrior, so to speak. Hello everyone. So today is day four in another special podcast. I guess I tend to call most of my podcast special because I honestly feel most of them are special. But today is a special one nevertheless. And the guest is someone you may know that is Francisco de los Cobos, who I consider to be my friend. And interestingly enough, a few years ago now, when I initially did the Aikido versus MMA video and got my ass whipped by an MMA practitioner when I was still a pure on Aikidoka and Aikido instructor too, there were a number of people who reached out to me and said, you know what? I went for a similar path or I know how you feel. And there are some, I believe, valuable insights that I can offer to you. And I was very happy to accept most of the offers. And one of the early ones was from Francisco de los Cobos. I actually just, I think he sent me a video where he talks about how he feels about Aikido and I liked it a lot. And probably I reached out to him and I said, you know what, maybe we can talk on record. And that video is recorded. It's in the history of YouTube on my main Marseille journey channel. And I was kind of excited that it's been a few years and it's been a while since me and Francisco connected directly online through, you know, face to face conversation and had something on record. So it almost feels like it's a full circle that happened because in the beginning and that stage Francisco's opinion and friendship was very valuable to me. I really benefited from what he had to say. And now that I, you know, went through this journey, I am very happy to connect up with him again and to talk over things from a different perspective now with all the accumulated experience and looking back at what happened then, but also looking into the future and talking about valuable questions, especially because Francisco, he's a badass. Let's start with that. He's been training martial arts since, I think he's like, since he was like five and he devoted many years to Aikido, but also a lot of other martial arts. Olympic based Taekwondo, I think, and then MMA, percentage Jutsu, and kickboxing. I don't want to say the wrong names. Basically, he's a badass. He's a fighter, but who considers himself that as you will see in this video in this talk that Aikido is a big part of his identity. And so I was thrilled to talk to him. So what is Aikido to him? So why does he still respect and love Aikido so much as a badass fighter? What does the Aikido philosophy mean for him? And we also spoke about the crisis that I consider Aikido is in and maybe how the situation can be improved. So many things relating to my desire to and my interest, renewed interest in the Aikido philosophy, which if you don't know, I've been surprised myself to discover that I started to see some value in it again. And I'm interested to come back and look at it again at the particular particular Aikido philosophy, although we spoke also about the technical aspects of it in this video. But yeah, in Francisco, to talk with Francisco about that to reflect about it, and to see to talk about Aikido from a positive perspective was a great experience. And I hope you will benefit from this podcast in addition to the Rediscovering Aikido series. So without further blabbering about, I wish you to enjoy the video right now. So I was about to head home after filming this intro, but I realized I spoke a lot about Francisco, but I didn't give enough information about why this video has happened. And I'll just for a very brief moment, sum up quickly recap on the intention behind this video, which I feel is important. So I mentioned that to my own surprise, I rediscovered an interest in the Aikido philosophy. And now I feel I am in a stage of my life where, you know, when you go, when you go through a breakthrough, break up, sorry, break up, break through too, but when you go through a break up with a partner or girlfriend, whatever, initially there's a very, usually a bitter taste to it. And it's hard to relate to that person in a positive way, especially when the breakup is, you know, has been rough. And it takes a while of time for things to settle down. And for that time, you see only the negatives. But after a while, you can look back and say, like, you know, actually, you know, not everything was positive was negative, there were positives too. And I feel it's somewhat of a stage in my life right now, where I can take a look back at Aikido and realize, you know, maybe there are some good things. And that's why, for me, this talk with Francisco is kind of so symbolical, is because, as I said, he's one of the first people that I reached out to and received guidance from in my initial stage of criticizing, well, criticizing, I guess, and also taking a critical look at Aikido. And now there's a chance to talk to him again after the journey with a more positive mindset. And to see again, like, so what can we discover right now together today? So I don't know if this added anything new, but I felt inspired to add this short bit of explaining the intention of this video, because I think the intention is a very important aspect. But that having that said that now, there are going to be no more special intros right now. You're good to go and enjoy the video. So thank you for staying tuned in and enjoy. So I always like to start by saying on record that thank you very much for finding the time. It's really a pleasure to see you again to interact with you. And it's been a while since actually we were having a face to face conversation. So I know. Yeah. And so a bunch of questions I want to ask you. But actually, some may have realized that I never had a chance to ask you properly. It's your background or kind of how you came to martial arts and both Aikido and other practices? Yeah. So I started when I was five years old. I started with Taekwondo, like Olympic style Taekwondo. My mom had a great influence in my martial arts training. Like she was always like like a fan of the philosophy of the, you know, hard training, like learning, you know, good principles to be a good person and to train your body and, you know, be just, you know, a strong person. So she always like pushed me towards the martial arts realm, if you want to say. She always was like, Oh, look at this Bruce Lee movie. Oh, look at this Vanda movie. You know, we were just like, it was like a thing that we shared, right? So one day you saw like a Taekwondo demonstration and like, Hey, mom, I want to do that. And she's like, Yeah, I know a couple of schools. Let's go check them out and let's sign you up. And then when I was around probably six or seven, we were, we were out there like, this is all in Mexico City. And we went to this little flat that it's kind of, it's kind of like a rough neighborhood. But we were there just shopping like toys for me. I still remember I was buying like ninjas, like little ninja figurines for me. So anyway, we went back and then we're getting back to our car. And I just see this guy, like kind of early guy, like approaching her from behind, like straight to her. And I just thought it was like a guy that knew her, you know, I'm like six or seven, like, I don't know what the hell it is. And just grabs my mom from her arm, trying to snatch her purse and, and starts like twisting her arm backwards, you know, almost like a Kimura kind of stuff, like a cob grab from behind. And, you know, like, I just kind of got in shock in a, in a little bit of shock. But not from the guy from my mom. She just starting like wailing and like hitting and banging and throwing elbows at that guy. Like she went berserk. Like, I was like, what? I'd never seen her like that. Right? Turns out that she kind of grew up in a rough neighborhood herself. So she knew how to handle herself in that situation. And when you saw her like started like boom, boom, boom, like just hitting the guy, like I saw the guy just receive like, like really hard hits. Probably he was on drugs or something because she was just like taking hits and still trying to snatch the purse. Anyway, at the end he did, he was, you know, he went running off. And my mom kind of was like, kind of like running after him. But I, like she told me like that me tell, like me tell her like mom, mom, mom, mom, what's going on? Mom, mom, mom. Like that's what kind of brought her back to reality. And like, oh, damn, I have my kid here. Let's get in and let's, let's, let's leave. So, so that, that part kind of marked me like really like deeply like, okay, like I want to be strong like my mom. I want to defend my kids when I, when I have kids and now I have one. So that kind of was like one of the big inspirations, you know, to, to, like her pushing me like, you know, in a good sense to train in that example that I saw was like, wow, okay. And, you know, so, you know, my dad was, you know, he trained a little bit of martial arts too. He, he knew about it. He was a really good shot. Like he liked hand guns a lot. So it was, you know, a little bit of both, but especially that, you know, experience, that, that physical experience of seeing my mom do that was like, okay, I got a train. I got to become strong and protect the people around me. That was pretty much it. And, you know, like, again, like I had like really good luck in finding a very good teacher. To this day, I still take back and forth like, you know, not, not that, you know, often, but, you know, often enough with my first Taekwondo instructor, like he became like a really, you know, like a good figure for me. And up to this day, we still, you know, text and like, you know, I still, you know, share with him my, you know, achievements. And, you know, he's always supporting and it's really cool. So it was, it was again, I don't know if you can call it luck, but my first instructor, it's still, you know, really close to me, right? So he's, he's stalling me. He was trying to instill in me not only like, you know, usually the martial, you know, technique, but also like good discipline, responsibility and all that. So it was, it was like good, you know, like for, for my formative years, you know, like I started at five years old and I competed and trained until I was like 19, almost 20. So it was a good, you know, good time. And it was funny, you know, like a lot of times I just wanted to quit. And I was like, no, kind of done with this. And my mom was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Like just get the next belt and then we'll say thank you very much. And then we'll go, I'm like, okay, cool. And once I got the next belt, I was like, oh, this is cool. I don't want to quit. And just, you know, she kept me with that technique, like going on until I got my black belt and I was, you know, old enough to know what I wanted and just wanted to quit. It was pretty cool from her, I think that I know. So anyway, like I had a chance to go and, you know, compete locally, compete. We took a little trip to Korea where I had time to, and a chance to, to train over there in the headquarters, the cookie one. And it was just like a really, really fun trip. And then one day, like she, she comes along and she's like, hey, you should watch this above the law movie. I'm like, no, no, no, I want to see kicks and other stuff. Like, I think that guy doesn't like throw punches or kicks. I'll watch it later. And one day she's like, come, come, let's watch. I'm like, okay. And I saw it and I was like, okay, I want to train like you. How old were you? 19, 20? I was 19, 19 years old. And I was like, okay, I want to train that. And she's like, yeah, yeah, I know a couple of those just around here. Do you want to go check that? I was like, yeah. So she actually signed up and we took like our first like month of classes together, right? And, you know, then she's doing her stuff. Like she didn't keep up with it. She kept a really close relationship actually up to this date with a, with a wife of my instructor. Oh, she is also an instructor. So they're still actually together. And when she teaches like self-defense seminars, my mom helps and all that stuff. But yeah, that's how I started Akido. And, you know, I met my instructor, his name is Carlos, Carlos Cordero. And he has a like a really long like training experience, you know, like he started and he trained with all the, you know, you know, also say students that were here in America with Yamada, say with Chivas and say with Canais and say all of them. And he has a really, really good technique. So again, just by luck or whatever it is, I found him. And again, really good mentor, but specifically about technique and about strength. I was like, okay, how is this old guy so healthy, happy, healthy and so strong and just manhandles me. Like I want that, you know, and also, you know, it was a couple like teaching Akido, like his wife was also extremely strong, like flexible, strong, good base. I was like, okay, like this Akido thing must have some something to it, you know. So I just kept with it. Actually, I did like a little, not properly Uchi deshi because I was not living at the dojo, but I was, you know, like coming in and out, like kind of like a Soto deshi, like outside, you know, student. And I did that for like four years with them. And the instructor, the head instructor we were assigned to by Yamada sensei was Kawahara, Kawahara, you killed Kawahara sensei. He was a very traditional Aikido instructor, but super humble, like super nice. And again, like, I'll send you some parts like there's some video on YouTube where I'm taking Ukemi for him in a seminar in New York City, in 2004 was this. I'll send you the video so you can see it. You know, maybe put some some of it here. And like really good traditional Aikido, but strong practical, as far as I was concerned. So that was pretty much it. Like that was that was my my Akido, you know, starts in Mexico City. And then I moved to Dallas in 2006. And I found another like really good instructor. And, you know, I just kept training and, you know, kept having fun. And around that time, when I moved to Dallas, I was like, okay, like, I feel like need a little bit of that, you know, competitive. But it's not that word. I don't want to use competitive. Let's just call it the pressure testing, you know, like, like, you know, having resistance, having like resistance. And, you know, with some of my friends, we did, like we we kind of went like free, you know, resist what happens if you sorry about that. What happens if you like don't go with the technique, what happens if you try to punch. So, you know, I was like still like curious about it, you know. But once I moved to Texas, like at the beginning, I had some time, well, like, you know, got a job and got my papers in order and all that. So I started just going to this boxing gym. Right. Like just, you know, I saw a boxing gym close to the dojo. He was he was handled by this, you know, Mexican guys, and super nice guy like super nice guy was like, really happy to meet him. And the way I wanted it was just first purely defensive, like, okay, like, I don't know why I came over this idea. Like what I need is to to have a good, you know, defense against like, you know, the most basic things like strikes, right. So that's how I started like I just asked the guy, like, Hey, you know, can you can you allow me to get in the ring with your students? And I'm not going to punch back. I just need to to blog to to practice my body movement, you know, my Taisa back in my blogs and all that. And he's like, Are you sure? Like, yeah, just, you know, like little, he's like, Okay, you know, like, let's, let's, let's go, you know, little by little. So he started, he started letting me go with it like the beginners. So it was fun. And little by little, just like over time, like, he started letting me go with more more advanced students. And then eventually I was just like, Okay, let's, you know, I was also training. You know, he was like holding pads for me. So I was like, Okay, let's, let's just go ahead and start sparring, right? Why not? And so, you know, I started like, you know, doing boxing, like, alongside Aikido, and it's funny, like, you know, I also train, you know, I have trained other martial arts and I trained, you know, several martial arts. And to me, Aikido and boxing are the two that have the most similar principles, especially in body movement, like triangular position, like angles, always looking for angles, body movement, like, especially like feet movement, like ashi sabaki, like it's, it's very, very similar with boxing, right? At least the way I found it. And I found that connection, you know, all that good mechanical instructor from your school, that you have to align yourself to throw a correct punch, like that it can be or it should be, I think, applied to Aikido techniques when you're throwing to have that really good posture, you know, really good escalatal and muscular correct posture. So, you know, like, I was having, like, a lot of fun, like, you know, practicing like a really, like, you know, impact, high impact, you know, thing like boxing with the softness of Aikido techniques. So, you know, I kind of like that a lot. And that's, that's, that's kind of like where I was for a while. And then I signed up at this gym in Texas. And I just started doing like full, you know, blown MMA, you know, like, obviously, with my Taekwondo background, I did more, you know, I was more inclined to strike. So, you know, I did more boxing and Muay Thai. And, you know, after like four, yeah, after around 40 years training, my circle was like, hey, do you want to do a fight? Striking fight? I'm like, yeah, yeah, let's, let's, you know, why not? You know, like, I kind of missed, like, that competitive, you know, thing. I was like, yeah, let's do it. So, I started competing in amateur Muay Thai. And I did some, you know, a lot of smokers, which is, you know, not sanctioned, you know, you just go to other gyms and you just like, you know, spar. Sometimes it can be like a really good technical sparring. Sometimes it ends up in a fight. It's just what it is. Hard sparring, but it was fun. So, but again, like, the thing is that that never, that never made me think, oh, Akido doesn't work. Oh, Akido, like it's useless. Oh, Akido, like I want to quit. And I want to know, like, like, it was like a good combination, like having these two things, you know, like, I felt I was getting a lot from both. And, and, and to me, like, both were like, like, not mutually exclusive, you know? And I had things from my, you know, I was at that time, I was already, you know, had been training Akido for like 15 years. Like, a lot of the techniques from Akido and principles, I could apply in my, you know, MMA classes in my Jiu-Jitsu, in my sparring. So, I was like, yeah, it works. I mean, the other day I was listening to, I think it was, it was this podcast line, I think it was Ramsey. Ramsey, the way I follow him, you know, like, and he was telling that too, like, you know, he had this student and he was doing this, you know, Akido-like technique. And the way he put it is like, yeah, like, this works, but you just have to know how to fight. Yeah. And I agree. I think that is true to any traditional martial art, right? Like, yeah, karate, karate kicks, punches work, if you know how to fight. If you know how to, you know, deal with blocks and punches and kicks and takedowns. And you can throw your, you know, kung fu techniques. I mean, as long as you know how to fight, your technique is going to work. So, you know, to me was that, you know, like I was at the MMA gym just learning how to fight. And I was just enjoying the, you know, tradition and all that appeal of the Asian martial arts through Akido. So to me, it was a good combination. And, you know, obviously, like, there's, there's the aspect of the ground fighting. So, you know, for that, either Judo or Jiu Jitsu, it's the best. So, you know, they had a good, good instructor like, you know, like Dallas is like really big, really, really big on Jiu Jitsu. So, you know, I found a good instructor and, you know, started training. And when I moved here to California, that's, that's what I have been, you know, keeping on with like Jiu Jitsu and Akido. Very quick question. So, we can later extend into it. But so, do you train Akido actively these days? Or is it still right now? I'm not, I'm not training it at Adodo. I'm just teaching some classes every now and then. And that's pretty much it. Like, you know, I do like, you know, my bokeh work on my own. And, you know, when I'm like, you know, rolling, I try to apply those techniques, you know, on my own work on principles. But like, I'm not part of any dojo right now. You know, just time, time wise, like, you know, right now, like, I'm really, you know, dedicated to, to my family. You know, I just have a little two-year-old boy. And, you know, I really want to, you know, put all my time and effort into, you know, my family part. So, yeah, you know, at the moment, I'm not, you know, part of any dojo, but I still, you know, when, if there's, you know, an interesting seminar, you know, around here in California, I would attend. And it's just that, you know, once a month class that I'm doing with Josh Gold from Aikido Journal. Yeah. From Aikido to Chidoyo. So that's pretty much all the interaction that I have with Aikido. I was just curious. So I would have it in the back of my mind. I'll probably come back to that subject later. But one question I wanted to ask in terms of, in relation to what you spoke about up to now. The starting point of Aikido, I know that was especially back in that day, I heard many, many people starting Aikido because of, above the law and the whole Stephen Segal presentation. I know it's like, it was a big thing, but I also think a part of people started Aikido because of its philosophy. And especially these days, I think that's probably one of the major drawing points for Aikido. So how was it for you with Aikido and philosophy? Did you first go in Aikido because it was badass? And, but did you later, as you went through, discover the philosophy or how did that happen for you? So yeah, that's definitely the case with me. You know, I first started Aikido just because it looked badass on screen. And, and, you know, like, like, you know, I just wanted to learn to do those moves and learn to, you know, just be that effective, you know, fluid and strong. But later, definitely what kept me going and kept me interested in Aikido was the philosophy, more so the life of the founder, the life of O Sensei. And I think to this day, it's one of the strongest points that, you know, that I'm interested in Aikido, right? You know, we'll go back to the technical aspect of it. But yeah, definitely philosophy of it. It was like, extremely interesting for me. So I was just like, you know, devouring like Aikido books, like, you know, like by all the authors. But, you know, a lot of it, like, you know, I was, I was also trying to take it with a grain of salt because yeah, the translation, you know, a lot could be lost in translation, right? Yeah, especially in Japanese. Yeah. So, you know, what it meant at the time that it said what was the situation. It's just a lot of things, right? But overall, like just looking at his life, the accounts of his life, like to me was just a great martial artist that has some fame in a time and in a place where they were, you know, people that knew how to fight. Yes. Also, there's a part that, you know, especially in Japan, there's that respect for the elderly and respect for the instructor. So you just take all that into consideration. But overall, like, just his life and his message, you know, more than the philosophy, I think just his message. Like resounding a lot with me, just being nice, be good, be strong, take responsibility for yourself, you know, don't blame things on somebody else. And this is not new, you know, like, I mean, there's a lot of religions, a lot of philosophies from other parts that have the same concepts. And, you know, this is, I think this is true, like, not only philosophically, but also in technique, like, if something has a good principle, you will find it across many disciplines, right? Yeah. There's nothing, how do they say there's nothing new under the sun, right? Like, like, if you think something, you'll find something, it's not new, it probably has been done. And probably has been done before and better. Right? You just gotta find that. You just gotta find that. So, but in the case of that, you know, nice philosophy of trying to grow, you know, trying to be a good human being strong, capable. I just liked it a lot. And the philosophy of wasn't saying just, you know, re-send it to me like really well. So, yeah, I agreed. Like, first it was the sex appeal, like the coolness of it, and then just finding the philosophy, right? And, you know, like, I also saw that kind of, like, fanaticism when people, like, go bananas over the philosophy and, like, all the energy and, like, all the spiritual stuff. Cool. Like, yeah, that's all good. Like, if you, through a physical activity, find, like, some spiritual connection, that's pretty cool, right? Just like yoga. Like, why not? Just make sure that you know what you're doing. And don't dilute yourself or your students in thinking that just praying and doing that, you will be effective in a violent situation. That's the thing that I really was just, like, always, like, kind of frowning upon, like, okay, I mean, you're spiritual cool. But that does mean you're effective in combat. Yeah. Right? So, I'll just chip in quickly because that very naturally leads me to one of the points I wanted to bring up. And I don't know if you know that I've quoted you for, like, dozens of times. Like, I can't recount how many times a particular thought I kind of stole from you, but I always, you know, I always tell it's coming from you. That's, I think you said it in an interview that I've seen done with you, but I don't know if you even told me that directly, it might have been. But anyway, it's that phrase that if you want to be a peaceful warrior or a pacifist, you have to be capable of violence. And the whole concept that, right, if you are not capable of violence, you're just kind of an escapist. And I can relate to that. Years and years ago, I was like that. You know, I was always a pacifistic, but part of me was, sometimes in some occasions, was more pacifistic because I didn't know how to. Right, exactly. So I really love that quote. I used it so many times. So I just wanted to ask you, so how did you came to discover that idea? And if you can comment more about it. So again, like I think it was like a phrase and an idea that I saw like in many places, and I heard it in, you know, with instructors too. And, you know, that was like probably not in that specific, you know, those specific words, but that was the concept. And that's why I understood, you know, like, okay, like if you want to, you know, root for peace, for justice, but if you cannot defend it, then that's empty. Right? That's just a wish for thinking. But if you have the strength to back it up, the moral strength, the spiritual, the mind strength, and the physical capability of defending it, then that's something really commendable, you know, like, like you are really a pacifist, because you can be, you know, a, you know, a bad person, but, but you decide to go for like the good way, justice and peace and keep things, like, you know, good. So I think that has a lot of value. So I think, yeah, a lot of, a lot of people that, that turn to martial arts, specifically to Aikido, they want to, you know, follow and defend this, this idea of peace, but they cannot physically defend it. Right? And yeah, like, there's, there's that, I think it's just an idea. How do you call it when, when you just have like preset idea, I just forget the word. Anyway, yeah, do you just, do you just have that, that, you know, preset idea that, oh, you know, if there's conflict, like, you know, I'm going to avoid it. Well, sometimes you can't, sometimes you got to stand your ground and defend yourself or defend some other people. So if you don't have the capability of, you know, technically and physically of doing that, then that's not much of a, you know, peaceful warrior, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really love it. That phrase just stuck with me and I used it many times to describe one of the challenges I feel Aikido is facing. And I, by no means I want it, and I, I don't want to make this video solely about that. I really try to more look at the positive side of it. But I think, yeah, Aikido, in my opinion, struggles sometimes a little bit with that balance of, you know, peace and violence. And it sometimes avoids and pushes violence to the side, expecting, like you said, that if we're going to be spiritual, it's all going to work out on its own. But it's, you know, it's a tricky type of thinking. But see, again, like, I think people just, just follow the end result of Osensei's philosophy and just focus on the law and peace. But that's why I like to try to research as much as possible about the life, like how he got there, not the end result, because you're missing all the journey. Right? So go back and see how, how his life was, you know, in, in what era was he developing his martial arts and his philosophy? And it was an era of war. It was, you know, World War II. So it was not a peaceful time. So I sometimes like, you know, feel and believe that Osensei's philosophy was very close related to, let's just say, Gandhi's philosophy. You know, he was also like, you know, nonviolent, resistant, but, but, but he was strong, like, to be able to do that, you must be really, really strong, like spiritually. Mine, you know, your mind should be really strong. You know, in case of Gandhi, yeah, he was probably not a warrior per se, not a martial arts master, but he had that, that conviction and that, you know, strength within him to say, like, okay, like, we got to fight for something. And I think that's what people are forgetting, you know, like, yeah, Osensei's philosophy was that of peace, but why? Because he saw what violence can do, I believe. So then you're like, okay, I got, I got to be, like, strong enough to keep the peace around here, you know, in my circle, in my environment, within myself. So yeah, I do believe that, and then there's this, you know, like, doing, doing all this training, obviously, you, you find yourself, you know, training, you know, combatives and, you know, looking at, you know, military, you know, mindset and military, the quads and all that. And I do believe, like, also, like, I like this quote a lot, where it says that the only response or the only solution for bad people are good people that are good at violence, right? Oh yeah. That's a good one. I love it. So I think it's true. And I think we should just, you know, train ourselves so we can stop that violence. And then we're really peaceful because we're promoting peace in the real way, not just philosophically, but basically, we can, if we have the means to do it, you know, enforce, let's just say, like, you know, peace and harmony and all that stuff that, you know, we like from Aikido, but you have to be able to do it. Otherwise, it's kind of, right? Yet again, that naturally leads me to another question. And I've pushed that whole exploration a little bit to the side for the past half a year or a year or so. So there's a chance that things change, but from as far as I can see, I don't think the situation changed dramatically yet. And by which situation, I mean the whole Aikido, global situation of Aikido, I personally have the image that it is a bit in a crisis like identity crisis or a challenge to find its place in the world as a practice or as a martial art. You know, Brazilian jiu-jitsu is blowing up all over the place and I think the Aikido is struggling to find its message. So that whole subject, so do you feel that that is true, that there's a bit of an identity crisis or challenge for Aikido to establish itself in the world? And if yes, then what do you think about that situation and what do you think might could be a good solution for it? Like what could it do about it? I know it's a hard question, but... So in general, it seems like that in the mainstream, right? It seems there's kind of like an identity crisis in the mainstream and there's a lot of bickering and fighting and defending and back and forth in online forums. You know, less like social media, man. It's just that social media has brought more wrongs than good, but anyway. So in that, like in the surface, in the mainstream, it is, you know, there's a lot of like all defending Aikido. Oh, it works. Oh, no, it sucks. But I think all the people that are trying to defend it and that are like trying to discredit it, I think all those, like probably there's hundreds, thousands of people that are between that. I think most of them don't even train or don't even train seriously or don't have enough experience to talk about it. Some of them do and, you know, they just get caught in all this like, oh, back and forth and it works and it doesn't. So, yeah, like in the surface, I think it has that kind of, you know, struggle to find a place. But if you see the global numbers of Aikido practitioners, I think it's fine. I think like the court don't give them about what's going on in social media. If you go to the main source to Japan, like people there practice Aikido not to be fighters, not to be badasses. They just like it. It's part of the tradition, just along with, you know, any other art that you can, you know, mention like people choose Aikido and they like it. They find either the philosophy or the movement of it interesting and it's a healthy thing for them. So it doesn't matter how, you know, many combat arts come along. Like people that like Aikido, they're still going to sign up for the Aikido. Like in France that it's another place that it's like, you know, like a big place, big numbers for Aikido. They're still training and, you know, they might adapt some techniques from other arts and what their practice is still strong and their numbers, they're good. Yeah, here in America, in North America, I think, and, you know, all over America, I think it's kind of like, like the whole America is like, yeah, a little more geared towards like the cool stuff, you know, MMA, you know, it has like a lot of following and, you know, like it's just cool to do it, you know. So people follow it more and yeah, like Aikido might struggle a little bit here to get, you know, you know, I think it's going to struggle to get more, to get new students, like young percent new students, because students are going to be like, okay, what am I going to gain out of training at Aikido dojo that I will not gain from training? And this is a question I posted in the forum, the Aikido martial side. And I didn't get a good answer. I was like, okay, for all you guys that love Aikido, and I love it and I see trying it, you know, like as much as I can, like, what do you gain out of an Aikido training that you cannot gain somewhere else? Right, yeah. And name one thing, nobody could do it, because everything that they say, I had an answer and you can find it somewhere. The philosophy, you know, do, you know, Buddhism, you can find the philosophy there. All the techniques, I mean, technically, you have like a lot of art, like you have Yudo that has throws in pins, Aikijutsu that it's, you know, a little, you know, different, but you know, like, there's nothing particular, you know, to Aikido, like you just like it because you like it, you know, that's it, like you feel happy with it, you feel good with it. And if you're getting what you need out of it, then you don't need an explanation, you know, because anything that you can mention out of Aikido that you're getting, you can get in some other art or some other discipline, you know. So in that way, the people that like it are gonna stay with it, right? And the only struggle that I see is, yeah, like getting new, new and younger students, you know, I think like, especially in America, Aikido population is like getting older and if they're not getting many new younger students, because what are they offering? You know, what do we have to offer to younger generations? So yeah, I think there's a little bit of struggle, but I don't think it's something that the Aikido world headquarters is gonna be concerned about, you know? Yeah. I did think about that question a lot as well, that particular question of what is it, what's the USP, you know, the unique selling product or the unique thing that Aikido offers to the table. And I very much like your approach of what you said, if you like it, you just like it. I appreciate that approach and I think it's a good one. Some people just forget that that's an important aspect as well, that you don't always need to win a fight, you know, a competitive fight between two, especially products or practices, you can always, you know, choose and there's even a saying in my native tongue, which is, goes more or less like, there's no arguing for taste. You know, you either like it or don't argue about it. Yeah. Another thing is, are you still with me? Oh, yes. Okay, there you go. I lost. Yes, down here. So another thing I just wanted to quickly reflect about and what we said too is, and I just actually was kind of discussing about that with Matt Fortin, my BJJ, I'd say mentor. Yeah, and he's, he brought that idea, which I liked a lot is that we too often we form an opinion these days based on what we see on social media, kind of like, if you, you know, if there's a lot of videos of, I don't want to make this political, so I have to think about what to use, you know, what to use an option for, but let's say, you know, martial arts, one, you see a bunch of videos of, let's say Aikido Dojo is being half empty. It's, it may lead to some observation, but it doesn't mean it's a fact. We relate too much on it. So I appreciate you saying that as well, like that, whatever we see online does not yet state what that is. But so those are a couple of my reflections. A question I wanted to ask in relationship to this, and again, it's a difficult one. And there's, I keep questioning that myself as well, but I don't know if we are in position to create that answer, but I'm just curious about your opinion, the appeal to the younger generation of Aikido. So would you say, would your kind of intuitive feeling would be that it would be a good thing for Aikido to just focus on whoever comes and continue to be as it is? Or do you feel like there should be some adaptation and yes, then what? So what, what do you think about that kind of challenge? So I think obviously like it has to keep its own appeal, you know, its own appeal of being a Japanese martial art of having that philosophical, you know, goal of, you know, peace, you know, harmony. Like it has to keep its own uniqueness, definitely. So in the, in the philosophical sense, I think it's, it's good. And I think it has a lot to offer, right? Like if you like that approach through Japanese culture and philosophy, that's, that's great. And that's really good. Now, if, if what people are looking for, it's just a martial flavored movement, then again, that's, that's cool, you know, but I think if, if you're going to go something martial, martial art, it should teach effective way of dealing with violence. It should teach form of combat. So, and again, like I would like to go back and think about the words of Austin say, like, if it was translated correctly, that is, but he was saying like that, that Aikido evolves, you know, his art evolves. And I think anything evolves. And I agree, you know, this is a phrase that Tristan uses a lot and I agree with it. If, if something is not evolving, it's dying. So if you see that, you know, there's all these combative sports and it has, and it's not about the techniques, you know, it's not about the physical techniques, like the techniques are not the problem. The problem is the methodology of training, you know, the lack of pressure testing, the lack of sparring. I wrote a little article for a, for a Mexican martial arts magazine where they were asking like, is, is competition good for Aikido? So what I tried to say was that pressure testing is good for Aikido, you know, like you're sparring like resistance, but it was kind of interpreting like, oh, like Francisco thinks that Aikido should have competition. No, it's not competition. It's just that, you know, aliveness, right? Right. And, and I do think that the methodology would benefit, you know, Aikido alone. Just, just putting, just pressure testing to your, to your way of training. I think that would, you know, one make the, the technique and the strategies more applicable and more effective. And, and that would attract people or, you know, like besides the philosophy and besides the, you know, Japanese culture and the samurai appeal, like I can actually learn how to defend myself with Aikido. So I think that would benefit a lot too. You know, if you're a martial arts instructor, you should be able to do some kind of, you know, physical thing, you know, like in teaching too. So one of the ideas sometimes that floats around Aikido is, and something I considered too, is ditching the martial arts aspect. You know, it's just like, well, like Tai Chi, for example. And I, I sometimes play the devil's advocate myself. Like I take on a certain position and I argue more for that position to kind of better understand where it's coming from. It doesn't necessarily always mean that I really believe it 100%. But one of those moments I had, I was considering, okay, so Kendo is not criticized as, you know, like on a big level for not being an effective martial art. Tai Chi is, unless it claims again to be effective, then it's troublesome. But usually it doesn't claim that so often. And then it's popular. It's appreciated. Even capoeira. Well, I don't have a clear opinion whether capoeira, how effective it is. Some people told me they have a strong opinion. It's effective. I'm not sure. But, but still it doesn't get criticized that much. Some people just see it as this playful thing. So there's some examples. So one idea, I guess, like, you know, could technically go to that path and ditch the martial arts aspect and say, okay, we are philosophical practice, you know, with some martial flavor, but we're not really a martial art. Technically, it would help bring up its reputation, clear up the reputation, which sometimes is questionable at least online. But then is that really a way to go? So what's your opinion about that? Is that a valid way to go? Or would you argue that actually that shouldn't be done and the martial pressure testing side should be more, you know, cherished? So what would you think? So in, you know, in this case, I'm biased to say that the martial technicality of the art should be pursued, right? Why? Again, because my main focus or my main inspiration or my main point to Aikido is its founder, its Ocean State. And he was a martial artist. He was a person capable of physical violence and of dealing with that violence and establishing harm. Right? So if I want to practice what he ended up, you know, the result of all his life was Aikido. That's how he expressed it, right? And his life was full of, you know, dealing with violence and establishing peace. So I think the physical side should be pursued. Definitely. And like, like I said, you know, when, when things evolve, things grow, not necessarily change, but just adapt and evolve, you know, a little bit to the modern times. And and that's a little bit of what I did is like, okay, what is the best deal to deal? What is the best way to deal with a punch? Boxers know that, you know, I don't have to go and rediscover the wheel. So let's go study boxing. You know, what's the best deal to be? What's the best way to deal with, you know, ground fighting? Okay, jujitsu, you know, wrestling, catch wrestling, whatever. So just go and study that like study principles and just learn how to fight, you know, adapt that. And then you can still, you know, pursue and teach your your peaceful philosophy. But now you have a strong physical base and ground where where you can actually defend that philosophy, right? So, you know, again, like the technical aspect of Aikido, like, yeah, just, you know, couple of dozen, you know, pins couple of dozen throws that it has and the way it shows, it's good. And that can still be kept. And that's like, you know, part of like the Aikido thing. But, but if you want to teach somebody how to fight, just learn how to fight and just teach them that, you know, teaching how to, you know, take somebody down like, you know, in an effective way. Now, the other thing is that Aikido also claims to teach in a self-defense aspect and not in a sports combat aspect. Well, that's worse, like, like self-defense is like worse violence, you know, more unexpected, you know, worse results than sports match, right? So, I think like a sports approach to combat is the safest way in the closest way that the closest thing that you can get to actual violence. So, if your technique is not going to work in a sports aspect, again, I'm not saying competition. I'm saying, you know, alive, sparring, alive training, like, you know, resistance. If it doesn't work there, then of course it's not going to work in a real situation, right? And, you know, there's also the kind of like myth, you know, in Aikido that all the technique is so good that, you know, it cannot be used in here in competition, whatever, we're going to break somebody. No, it's not like, you know, like, you know, Judo, Jujitsu, wrestling have techniques that break bones also and they train, they are trained every single day, you know, and you just need to tap and you just need to, you know, train with a good methodology. That's it. So, I do think that, you know, if people want to, and, you know, this is the thing, like, I think Aikido philosophy has a lot of good things to offer, right? So, I think it's kind of like a, like a disservice to a lot of students that would benefit from that philosophy, that, you know, you're kind of pushing them away from your dojo because you cannot teach them how to fight. So, yeah, they will learn how to fight, but they will not learn this philosophy. I mean, maybe they will, maybe they will like study Buddhism or study another kind of, you know, and they will learn it, but, but if you can offer that all in one place, I think that would be cool. Like, just thinking about my case, like, you know, I had the means and I had the chance to, like, practice Aikido and practice boxing and practice Muay Thai and practice Jujitsu and, you know, have, you know, family time and, you know, work full time, but not everybody can do that or not everybody is willing to. So, if you can offer a class where you can give your students that, you know, Aikido philosophy, but you teach them how to fight, I think, like, they'll just be full. I agree. I was kind of playing with a different, with a similar idea on my own and kind of reflecting back at Aikido without all the negative tastes that I had for a while. And I was imagining if there would be a practice, which is a very difficult thing to make happen, but not to see impossible. But let's say there's a practice which definitively makes you a bad, into a badass and of almost like Steven Segal level in, you know, above the law, but then it would also bring together the philosophy of Aikido. So, you would know because that's what attracted me. I wanted to defend myself. I wanted to defend my friends. I grew up being exposed to violence and that's what I expected from Aikido and that drew me in because it promised me that I will become a badass and I will be that pacifist that ideally, you know, you described. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and that brought me to my whole journey, which most people are aware of. But when I imagined that practice, if that would be there, even like, not to say that I'd say that's a solution, but even if present, there would be a present due to school, which would be focusing on the Aikido philosophy or even like a boxing or whatever. I'd be like, oh, crap, this is interesting. I'd be interested to try it out myself. So, I really agree with you when you say that that's a disservice that there's no kind of bridge between for the people who are interested in both the philosophy and actual physical power prove us. Yes. And I think the people that are interested in both should benefit from both. Why take that away from them? Again, they can go to a jujitsu dojo and learn all the effective techniques and if they're lucky and they have a good teacher, the teacher will give them some philosophy. I mean, again, you don't need this philosophy to be a good person. That's just like a basic thing. You just got to think a little bit about it. Just don't be a jerk. If you help, if you can't help, don't get into other people's businesses and just be nice. Overall, just be nice. And I think a lot of people that are good at violence are really nice. Yeah. Same here. That's my experience as well. But, you know, I saw this thing in Aikido where people that were not capable of dealing with violence were kind of like all, you know, arrogant, I guess. It's like arrogant. Yeah, I think that would be the word. Like arrogant. So I think it goes hand to hand. Like you're good in violence. Like you're nice because you know what that result ends. Not only for yourself, but for some other people, right? And again, that has a lot to do with self-defense, you know? Like it's just like I always or not always, but I started thinking about that that you mentioned in your last video about how Aikido claims a peaceful resolution. But the techniques, if you actually do them, they're pretty brutal. They're bad. And I agree completely with you. Like, you know, wrestling or jujitsu techniques can actually enable you to do a peaceful resolution. You know, like without getting hurt and without hurting too much. So anyway, but again, I don't know, like it was it was kind of strange and people always like from both sides, like my Aikido friends and my MMA friends always were like, oh, and you're still training that and why you haven't put Aikido? And I don't know. Like I just I just find like there's there's something that I'm getting from both, you know? But I definitely would like to have all that under one dojo, under one roof. And so people don't have to, you know, be going back and forth. And I think that would be cool. And I think if if future Aikido instructors can offer that, I think I think dojos will be, you know, getting their numbers. I agree. It's a great thing you're saying. And I'm close to wrapping up, but one of the last questions I had is if we would play this game, mental game of simplifying things and you looking at yourself and breaking yourself down into, you know, this martial art, that martial art, with this philosophy, that philosophy, how would you I know it's not as that simple. That's that's why I'm saying the game. But having those conditions, how many percentage would you give yourself as an Aikido? You know, like how much percentage of you you'd say is Aikido if we play that game? Let's say 100% Jedi. I don't need technique. I just use the force and oh yeah, like like all high level Aikido guys. Yeah, but for real. Anyway, let's see. Man, that's that's a very good question. So are you speaking like, physically, like physical technique? I'm honestly more interested in the philosophy aspect myself at the moment. But but both would be interesting to hear. Like, would you would you distinct and say like physically that's how much and philosophically that's how much or would you put them together? Okay, the philosophical part is easy. Like I would say like 90% Aikido. Got it. You know, and again, not not not the mainstream, not the like, you know, key projecting harmony, you know, free. No, like, like just just a live of us and say it's inspired me is what keeps inspiring me to to to seek that peaceful, that harmonious resolution. Right. But with what means the physical means, then yeah, like, then I would say like Aikido would be like, I don't know, I'm just gonna throw a number out the 25%. Yeah, I was kind of expecting the, you know, wrist locks, throws, deflective defenses, movement, you know, it's there, it's applicable and it can be used. Obviously, like what I started doing was kicking with Taekwondo and in my amateur fights, that's what I use the most. So I don't know, I would say like, probably 50% of my technical arsenal relies on kicking. And with my type, when I learned like, you know, different types and, you know, low kicks and, you know, different hard, you know, ways of kicking, you know, that just like augmented that capability. And that's, that's, you know, the thing that I use most on my fights. And the, I don't know, let's see. So that's what 75% of my right now. And I would say the rest would be like, at this moment, probably, you know, the, the, the thing that I'm training now and that I'm trying to focus a little more on is jujitsu. So, you know, I would say like, like jujitsu, it's a big part of that rest. And, you know, like also I did like, you know, boxing and I like the philosophy and the training of it. But, you know, I think that the grappling aspect would be a little more in the last part would be the, you know, the boxing, you know, movement that is kind of integrated with the aikido movement too. So yeah, there you go. That's that was a hard question. I love your answer. It's a good answer. And I was kind of expecting similar numbers. Maybe it was even happily surprised, not really surprised, but happily hearing 90% aikido philosophy. But that naturally makes me ask, so what is aikido philosophy for you then? What, what is that 90%? What, what is that mindset or how would you describe it? Just in general, what, what I or the perspective or the idea that I have gotten with all these years of, you know, training and reading, it's trying to keep like that harmony first, you know, on yourself, within yourself, right? Which means just trying to lead a good life, you know, like trying not to get just, just, I mean, it's, it's a basic philosophy. And I think like, again, most disciplines and most, you know, religions have the same base, you know, just, just be nice, just, you know, help out if you can, and don't be a jerk to the neighbor. That's it. So, but, you know, I'm just again inspired by the way Austin say did it, you know, like he, he was an example of that. And he was a badass. So that's, that's just the inspiration that I get. So, you know, that harmonious resolution starts with you, you know, being strong. So again, like, if you're in a discussion in a, in a, and, and, you know, this is something that now this is called also verbal judo, you know, like how to de-escalate. Yeah. Right. And, and I think that, okay, if you, you want to talk about the philosophy of Aikido, like that should be practiced more. And if you want to teach self-defense, that should be practiced more in the dodges, like, you know, how to de-escalate a violent situation. Because, yeah, they talk about like, oh, you know, just avoid it. Do you train how to avoid it? Do you have the, you know, technical, mental tools on how to de-escalate a violent situation? If you're not, then, then again, it's just wishful thinking. It's the same as the technique, you know? So yeah, like in real, you know, world self-defense, like, you know, avoidance, de-escalation, all that is extremely important. So if Aikido is claiming to teach that, then it should be practiced, you know, in that sense. So anyway, you know, just, just have that, that strength first within yourself to, you know, just not get like your ego hurt, you know, so you don't have to get into a physical altercation, right? So if you're strong, if you know what you're worth, if you know what you, if you know your way in life, then whatever somebody else thinks of you or gives an opinion, it's just that, it's just an opinion. And I don't know, like, I just felt that, you know, I got through that way of thinking through the philosophy of, you know, osensei, right? So, you know, it starts with, you know, mental, spiritual aspect, if you want to call it, just like personal interactions all the way through the, you know, physical, physical violence realm. I mean, violence is violence. You just have to know how to deal with it, even if it's an attack, like verbal attack. And from who, you know, like some, some, some attacks, you can just walk away physically and verbally too. But let's just say you have a discussion, you have a disagreement with your wife. You cannot walk away from that. You have to, you know, have the spiritual and mental strength to stay there and to find a peaceful resolution, to find a harmonious resolution, right? So it, and same thing, you know, physically, like, yeah, most problems you can just like not be at the right, at the wrong place. Just, you know, not be out there like drinking and partying and then, you know, just being at a bar where there's going to be a fight or, you know, just hanging out with the wrong people, like you just avoid that. But what if like a bad person comes to you once you, wants to do harm to you or your loved ones, you have to have the capability skills, physical skills to deal with that, right? So to me, I got that a little bit from my kid. And there's this, this passage that I, that I really like that it's sold about one of, one of us and say students, I think he was Nishio Sensei, which it was another inspiration, because yeah, he was a high level karate guy, high level judo guy, high level weapons guy, but he chose to put all that integrated. So I was like, yeah, like that's kind of what I'm trying to go for, you know? And anyway, who was saying that, you know, he was still training judo at that time. And there was a burglar like breaking into one of like the high level instructors. I think it was Kyuso Mifune, which was like one of the highest level Kodokan judo guys. And he said like, oh man, like, if I catch this guy, like, even if I get killed, I'm going to teach him a lesson, you know, I'm going to, you know, stop him. And, and then at the Aikido dojo, somebody stole some, I think Koichi Tohei's jacket, like expensive American leather jacket. And Otsunsei was like, oh, that was whoever brought the jacket here and tempted the guy that didn't have it. It's your fault. It's not the thief's fault. It's your fault for bringing somebody, something that somebody else wants. And so you created a thief. So it's your fault as an Aikido practitioner. I love that. I don't think we should be out there blaming it on the government, on my partner, on the work, on the pandemic, on the, no, just take responsibility for yourself. And when you do that, it's very liberating. The way I have done it, like, you're not blaming anybody. You're just like, oh, I failed here. So let's do something and work. So, you know, I don't fall into the same, you know, mistake again. And I think it's just really, it keeps like a lot of harmony inside your mind, at least, because you're not having a conflict, even if it's imaginary real, like a conflict, like, oh, that person did this to me. You know, it's not like it's more like, oh, I put myself in this situation. So I'm going to avoid it next time. Right. And that I learned from Aikido. And that has helped me a lot. And, you know, I consider that I have a really happy, peaceful life, thanks to that way of thinking, you know. So yeah. Nice. I love it. That was awesome. I want to say and ask, I want to ask a very, very last question. And I presume this will be a quick one, but I know this could be, this answer could be extended into forever. And even in the back of my mind, thinking that maybe in the future, we could connect about this particular subject. But let's say this is a short one for this one. So what inspires you about Batman since you're wearing a Batman t-shirt? Ha! Yes. It's a very nice one. I should look it up online. I'm going to send it to you actually. Oh, I love it. I'm going to send you one, because I know you appreciate it. So anyway, like, I get a lot of inspiration from, you know, like comic book figures and video games and so and it's just like that, that like, like that mythology, if you want to, you know, see it like that. I think that's always been the case, you know, like, you know, ancient Greeks were inspired by, but that mythology of like Hercules and Zeus and like these gods and demigods and then that inspired them to just, you know, do great things in life, right? Yeah. I either do war or to studies or through, you know, whatever. So I get a lot of inspiration about, you know, from, you know, anything that I think, oh, that's cool. Like, that just makes me like gives me the motivation to train, right? I think, like, a lot of times people ask me like, oh, what's the most important thing about, you know, martial training? I would say motivation. If you don't have the motivation, it doesn't matter that you have the best coach, the best teacher, the best equipment, the best technique that you can learn. If you're not motivated, you're not going to go train. So motivation is important. Self-motivation is really important. So in my case, like, you know, it's super easy for me to just like, watch a video game, like, oh, that looks cool. Let me try to see if I can do it inspiring, you know, and go and train, read a comic with all this movement looks good. Obviously, you're not going to be like climbing walls and like, you know, you know, jumping rooftops, but just like something that inspires you like, okay, that's pretty cool. Like, I'm just going to train and get better and get stronger and get more agile. So in the case of Batman is really cool because he's like this badass, respected, you know, character hanging around with super human beings. And he's just a dude, right? He's just the guy that, yeah, has the, it's like a dark motivation, but it is a motivation in that motivation, you know, helping him like reach like, you know, high ideals, physically, mentally, in all aspects, you know. So, you know, and then obviously there's that for this character, it's always the martial arts background, you know, within all his, you know, fighting abilities and his, you know, mental capabilities. So yeah, I think that's what attracts me the most about, you know, that character. Great. Good answer. Well, this wraps up my questions for today. I won't be surprised if, you know, some time later, I will reach out to you again. But I just... We should, man. Yeah. We should definitely. This is always a good interaction and, you know, it's good to see you again, talk to you like, it's been a while. So definitely let's do this soon again. Yeah, absolutely. I'll be very happy then. And I also wanted to use the moment and use the chance and to say that I think it's, I presume it's obvious, but I don't think I ever said it to you directly that I really appreciate you, you know, being there for me, through all of my journey. But there was also that specific moment of, you know, me just discovering that whole confusion with my martial arts training. And you're one of the first persons that I connected up with. And you really helped me kind of clarify and get the hang of so what's real, what's not, what I could do, what I shouldn't do, what I should do. So that helped really that your influence at that stage was a very important one. So I wanted to use the chance and say thank you for, you know, being there for me at that period. And it's always, it's also great now to, after some time passed to catch up again and reflect about those things. So it's really cool. Thank you. I'm happy that, you know, I was able to, to be of some help and some little inspiration there. So that's good, man. That's, that's good. And see this, this is one of the few good things that social media and technology is bringing about, like, you know, we're thousands of miles apart. And I think we, we struck a good friendship, like, and hopefully, you know, you can, I know, like with this pandemic, like travel is hard, but, you know, I hope that once things are resumed to a, you know, normal level, you visit the States again, we can meet. Yeah. And now you're in California and California is one of my destinations. So I think it's 100% we'll meet as soon as life gets back to you. Let's, let's, let's punch each other in the face, man. Yes, that'd be awesome. That'd be great. Cool. And, and, and, and still ending a harmonious level. Yes. And I'm sure we would, yeah, we would be the right people to do that. Exactly. And I think that's Marcellus, you know, what's that about, like, like, just, just let's go through, through, you know, harsh physical interaction and still, you know, find a harmonious resolution through that. So, but yeah, that's good, man. I'm glad that, you know, I was, I was able to, to put a little bit of, of a good positive, you know, note on your journey on that. So thank you. Thank you. Well, good. I'll let you go to your family. I'm sure, you know, I know myself how important it is to be with family, especially over weekends, but thank you very much for finding time. And yeah, I'm sure we'll connect again. We'll keep connecting. So it'll be cool. We will. Have a good one, Rokas.