 Welcome. It's documentation office hours. It's the 27th of May. A reminder that it is we abide by the Jenkins code of conduct as we're working together. So the only agenda item that I had for today was spreading the knowledge and sharing the work. Kristen, are there any topics you wanted to add or do Raj, any topics that you wanted to add? No, I don't have anything on my side. Yes, from my side, we planned that we would be reviewing the same sense of how to make some of the change log PR. So we can go over that very quickly. And after that. You can tell me any other thing that you need help. Great. Okay. Yeah, so and I think that probably fits in the sharing the work so the, the dirage I was assuming we would go through the change log process on during next Monday's office hours but we could also do it now because there certainly have been changes to the Jenkins main line so we could have you do a test change log today if you'd like to. And then we do it again try it again Monday I think that's that's very much a doable thing we did it Kristen for your background. I showed dirage mag dirage and mag how to generate the change log for Jenkins weekly releases, what the tools are etc. And, and doing that because it's a it's a documentation tasks that we do every week. It's supported by a bunch of automated tools. And what we had planned to do is have dirage then actually drive the keyboard with me coaching on the next time. And since he's available today, we may even be able to do it today. I had assumed that we might have Zina with us. Oh, it looks like we just had dirage drop off so we lost him. But my assumption was that we would spend most of the time talking with you now about which areas she's interested in and helping share the work. So I'm going to assume that dirage will will rejoin us and hope that it happens relatively quickly. So in terms of, of other other topics so Kristen I had largely assumed that you were probably not available to help with spreading the spreading the work around that you're you're already engaged as much as you can be in the in the docs. The docs work that we're doing. Is there anything that you say, Oh, hey, I would be willing to help with that and interested enough to do it. Sure, I feel really bad that I'm not more involved with this stuff because I actually really do want to kind of be able to actually review more things or be able to write more. I'm just really right now I'm trying to put my focus on Google summer code. Which is exactly the right place for it right I've, I've had to go begging for I've had to go begging for and I'm really delighted I found someone to replace me as Google summer of code mentor so that was one of my first goals. So absolutely and that should be your your first and foremost priority. I think that I might be more. So like most of my source focus, pretty much all my source focus is probably going to be on that for at least like the period of time until that's over the summer but I really do want to be more involved with them. Kind of actually like migrating some of the documentation and maybe upgrading some of our, like, like looking into, I think we even saw some of the generator work, or like, you know, fixing some of that stuff to make it run locally or even just the when we were investigating how to build. Because remember looking at the build step over, she co average, I wanted to be able to dive into that a little bit more. I started looking into it but I didn't, you know, it was only for a couple days and then it's like okay well they. They moved on to other topics and are working on other things so I don't want to change their focus so like digging into more of that type of stuff, but I probably will not be able to look at that seriously until after the summer. And that makes that makes complete and total sense I think my full support. Yeah, I really do want to do stuff with documentation like I think there's so much we could do or even like how we were. I brought up that one suggestion I still need to move into our summary document about like maize or something where you can do like getting started with, like getting started with Jenkins like that type of piece like maybe doing some type of program for like DevOps world, just trying with Jenkins like I think it'd be fun but it's like, I want to get through Google, Google summer of code first. So, which makes total sense that is absolutely the right thing to do. Right. The results we've, you think about what we've received from Google a summer of code over the years right last year alone it was let's see let's make the get plugin faster. The year before that it was let's do a get lab branch source plug in, and all sorts of things like that this year it's two different cloud projects and and promoting improvements I mean, right. Yeah, Google summer of code is so valuable and so helpful. Exactly. Right. Okay, so, so in terms of while you're here I'll bend your ear with the, the changelog process because it may be something that is is relevant to you in the sense that there's a generator for it, and the generator makes makes life much easier. So there's a style guide we use and a generator and the style guide and the generator, make it so that at least to my perception the weekly changelog is is doable by someone who is not super experienced with Jenkins. Okay, you just if you've got basic familiarity, many of the things you can decode and deconstruct and resolve. And the LTS changelog is much more complicated. Okay, and the LTS change. Well, you know you're you're combining multiple weekly releases plus back ports plus, plus all sorts of different levels of plus you're doing some human based filtering to decide which things should we describe and which shouldn't we, and all those things are prone to error and for somebody who knows knows what it means to work on Jenkins core. Gotcha. Oh, oh, do your eyes you're back. Excellent. Yes. Oh no, great to have you back back that's wonderful. So, are you at a spot do your eyes where you would be able to share your screen and we could have you go through the changelog generation process, so that we have a test drive and and let's do some Well, I can definitely do that. And, but when you explained last week that how to do this on the next day itself I tried to do this by myself and I was able to do it so it's on my local get repository. So, that is a great thing to say you tried it and it worked. I think I should have done it twice a video more than three times and then I got to understand how it works. Well, so I think I think that motivates me even more to have you do the steps, because there are recent changes, since the time that you did that that should be should bring some new new and different variance into your experience. I would, I would love to have you go through the exercise, but I'm also fine if you say hey you're you're confident and we'll just do it next month next Tuesday for your time. I think that would be better because today my next spear is not at its optimal. So it will cause problem for all of us. Okay, great. So, so I'm going to note it here so performed the same steps. Last week last after our last session steps worked. Okay that that that actually is quite impressive because the, I think the first and second times I did it I had to go back to original video. Oh, this is what I'm supposed to do oh this is what I'm supposed to do so you are you're impressive well done. Thanks. So the next one we will do will be the 2.296 change log next Tuesday morning. I think you did 2.295 by yourself right. I right so well and 2.295 and 2.294 mark did 2.294 in the last office hours. We then had an out of out of order or out of out of band release 2.295 due to a an infrastructure issue. And mark created the empty change log as a result. Because it's truly an empty change log. So if we look at it here. Download to 2.295 change log says no notable changes in this release. It's exactly the same as 2.294 one commit later where that commit is set the version number to 2.295. Great. All right well so that dears that's excellent so I think that's really great. We'll plan for that you want to talk about the next topic then. So here the idea was what what I'm trying to do is spread spread the work around while I'm gone with my kidney donation. And, and that spread the work around is one of the things that we need is people to review documentation pull requests. Now this is as simple as going to the Jenkins.io github page and listing the pull requests, checking them out and providing a comment. If the thing looks good so I'm going to go ahead and review this one while we're here so this one says the getter channel is Jenkins. Okay now I've got to do some research to be sure that project side thing is correct. draft so let's open that doc just to see. So all I'm doing is doing a code review. Yep, that's right. Okay, chat. Here's the code. No dispute from me. So I just, there's my approval. And you see it here as a reviewer and the check mark. That that's a great way to help. And now some of the pull requests are ancient and could really benefit by having another person take their work and continue it to get it to ready to merge like this one for instance, where this is a change that was proposed to do. And now there are conflicts that need to be resolved and there are comments that need to be resolved so that this is a good thing to help with where somebody else could pick it up and start the work on it. Any questions there. Then the next idea was have someone lead the documentation track for the contributor summit. And our fall back here is, it's also okay. If we choose not to discuss docs at the summit, because we've had good discussions in February we understand many topics. And this June contributor summit will, will have a lot of different topics happening in it. Now, dirage was that was that an area of interest to you say you would say oh yes I'd be passionate about doing that or something that you'd be okay if others wanted to do that. I'm actually, yes, I'm passionate about it. It's interesting. Okay, well so then, what's what you'd need to do there then is start an email discussion in the Jenkins docs mailing list, and what what you'd be doing is proposing topics for the doc segment of the summit. You could refer to the February 2021 contributor summit docs topics. And let's see if I can find those really quickly. See, February 2021 Jenkins contributors summit. Here we go. Okay, so this was the initial intro. And then. Okay, so it looks like that's the so there's one this introduces it. And I'm going to have to put, and then there were video segments for there's an entire playlist of the February summit. And let's grab that link. Jenkins playlists. And now contributor summit here we go full playlist. Okay, so this has and you can see here what we talked about in document track docs track one docs track two. So in this playlist, it includes docs track one and docs track two now for the, the June 25 summit, we will have no more than one track we tried an experiment in February where we tried we did. We tried two tracks, widely separated from one another by time so that we could get Asia and Australia on one track and Europe on the other track. This this January June one will not be that way it's going to be done in East Coast US time zone. Any questions there to Raj. I hope it's Jenkins docs meeting was announced to be a hyperlink. Maybe can you briefly tell me again the responsibilities that I'd be having. Let's let's talk about what that would mean yeah good good idea so. Thank you. So what the documentation track person does is they. They will propose topics. And the proposal of topics would be things like. Let's see you might be wiki migration. Actually wiki replacement has been one topic that's wiki replacement, so that we stop maintaining a read only wiki. And then wiki migration, moving docs to Jenkins that I'll then plug in docs migration docs conversion to docs as code is another possible topic. What is it LFX, what is it LFX. I forget the name of their it used to be called Community Bridge LFX. Yeah, that is Linux Foundation yes exactly but they've got a very specific thing. Let me look it up it's the LFX. There's a donations, they accept donations and we, we have some funds and we use those donations. Let's see where is it. Not been my merge yet. Okay, let's see if we can get it this way. Donate. Okay. There we go Community Bridge that's what it's called excuse my. Okay so LFX Community Bridge. Project ideas. And one of those was Jenkins on Kubernetes continued. And one of the other project ideas that might be detailed on configuration as code. deep dive, or something like that. This, these are, these are just topics that might be considered, and it's best to discuss those and have mailing this discussions before they ever come to the meeting so that the meeting is very, very, very effective at choosing which things we should do and which things we should delay. Does, does that help so far diraj. Yes, yes. Okay. Let's take one of the topic as you have written there that is wiki migration, moving the ox to the Jenkins website. So, on this topic, we'll be talking about it and telling the audience on how to do this so that they can contribute us. Good, good question we've got. We've actually got online we've got video tutorials already exist that show how to do that. So I would not expect that the, that the, the contributor summit would show that because because this one we already have examples of how to do it, and we could link people to it. Same same for the plugin docs conversion. This one wiki replacement. This is more of technical alternatives evaluating technical alternatives to the read only wiki, because we could do a static site. Right, we could do redirect all pages, you know, we could do several different things that would let us turn off the machine that's running the wiki currently but not lose the knowledge and the links that are inside the wiki. Does that does that help. Does that answer your question. Yes, for that part. Yes. So, I'm also wondering, can you please help me in this one that since for wiki migration, we don't need to tell or talk about how you do it, because it already exists. So, what will we be doing with this topic. That would be a question right so it would be questions like should we have an event to, to resume to reinvigorate the, the migration that that would be the kind of thing I would expect. So for instance, we might say, ooh, should we do Jenkins migration month. Give rewards for a certain number of contributions. That kind of thing. So we've used this technique in the past with a similar to Hacktoberfest and the UI UX Hackfest that we had. And there may be other ideas about hey what could we do to increase the pace at which we're doing this migration of documentation from the wiki to Jenkins that IO. The complication is that this thing. We've reached the point where many of the pages are so old, but they, they need an expert to decide if they still, they still are relevant. It's no longer a trivial. Oh, just convert it from wiki format to ASCII dog. Hello. Okay. Any, any other questions related to wiki migration. Oh, yes, you are audible I can hear you. So just out of curiosity I was wondering what was the response received by Jenkins during the Hacktoberfest. We had, we had, I think 50 or more distinct contributors, and it may have been as much as 100. We usually get very good engagement with Hacktoberfest, the people who engage there typically do not stay long term to become permanent contributors. It's more, hey, I'll go do it I'll do five or six and one out of 50 or one out of 100 will continue contributing even after the after the event is done. Okay, okay. Okay, great. Yeah so so and we've seen some we've seen some really cool or some really positive things happen when, when we did recognition of results. And then there was this UI UX Hackfest where we actually used a GitHub repository to track who was contributing and in the end we had 30 or 40 people with their pictures on this, this page showing here are the contributors for this event. But but it's, it's work to plan one of these kind of events and it needs promotion it needs mailing it needs all sorts of things to assure that it, it happens. Right. Any, any other question on wiki migration. If I may. I wanted to know what exactly I would be doing. So, so as the, as the leader of this, this documentation track, you would probably be the one proposing, hey, I'd like to run this event. And this event would be a month long thing that would give us the goal is to invite a bunch of people to help. And you'd say, I would like to propose we send stickers. Send five stickers to each person that contributes five poll requests, or that converts five pages. And the challenge there is I'm not sure that that's the right, right idea but but this already says okay there's some thought about how do we encourage people come, come help us with this. That's very interesting. That's a good challenge. Right. Now it makes sense to me what I'm supposed to do. Okay. So that that's one, one, one idea and there, there are certainly other ideas like that where Oh what if we did this or what if we did. What if we were to, to make it. What if what if we just did a preparation for October fest. So another alternative might be and here's a, here's an interesting one, prepare for October fest. And, and, or maybe I should say differently, use October fest to improve documentation. And the idea there is what we need to do is we need to prepare sets of small towns, many smaller tasks that a new contributor could complete. So examples, good first issues are examples. And let me open up good first issues so you can see what that means, or have you already seen the good first issues query in in Jenkins issues, maybe not. First issue here. Okay, so this shows 13 currently open issues and of those 13 issues, most of them the roughly half of them have already had somebody working on them. So there are many more issues that could be submitted that would be good first issues for someone to do. But we need someone to go through and do the work of identifying those issues. And having identified those issues, then create them in GitHub so that people could then come take them as part of the as part of October fest. So on that, how do we identify an issue. So do I need to go to the key exporter. Sorry, the key website and see which of these websites has not been present in Jenkins IO and then create issue on the GitHub. That's that's one good way to do it. There's also so review the wiki exporter status. Actually, I think, as I think about it, I'm not sure that the, the, I think the wiki exporter talks about plug in so, so what you may want to do is review the status sheet. And now I need to go find my status sheet. Google Drive. All right, so here is status sheet. Where would I find it. Okay, let me look separately now because it's in office hours notes, maybe let me look for. Okay, it's not in this document so I probably have to go to an old archive. Just a minute. There's a key not the feedback sheet wiki migration plan. Just a minute. I, I still think I can find. Oh yes here it is the wiki progress sheet. There's a link to this. So what this is. This is a spreadsheet that I created a very long time ago that shows 245 wiki pages that need to be migrated. And what I did was I identified the most heavily most frequently accessed wiki pages and put them in this last in access order. So you see access count here. So let's do take the status and filter show all. That's a lot of work, I think. What's that. That's a lot of work for you. Yeah, well, and that's, this was part of the tram planning exercise right was trying to identify which things don't have a GitHub issue. Yeah, so let's let's go back to our notes. So we've got it. Okay, so review the status sheet and identify the best pages to migrate create GitHub issues. For those pages. Mark the issues as good first issue. The first issue is that what happens with the hacktoberfest is we get 50 or 100 contributors who very early would like something relatively easy that they could help us with. And if these things are relatively straightforward transformations. It's a good thing. Does this that makes sense. Yes. Yes, that makes sense. Okay, and I should not use the word mark let's use the word label. Okay. So the, the idea here is this, this sheet shows us of pages that need to be transformed. And if we take if we ignore all the pages that are done. We can see that there are still many, many pages that have have truly no progress. My software builds on my computer but not on Jenkins. And there's no issue reporting it. There's no triage for it. So nobody's reviewed the page. Likewise, commercial support. Is the page just exist, but it's not represented anywhere on the Jenkins site. Here's a hot one known Java 11 compatibility issues. So all sorts of things like that. Yes, this is very helpful to track the issues to be exported. Right. And, and I'm happy to grant anyone right permission to this sheet that they would. They would like, I think right now, anyone can view it. And I'm happy to grant anyone who specifically asks permission to edit it. As of now, I think I would need just the options. Sorry, you would need and I missed that last word. Just a view, view permission. Yes. Yeah, and that you already have. Yes, that's great. Okay. I'm sorry I have a question. Oh, oh, is he not are you here. Yes, I am. I'm sorry I came in late. Thanks. Great great that you're here. Go ahead. Yes, what was your question. Um, so, um, is there like, are there possibilities that you have Github issues that have been closed but not indicated in the sheets or is there like a requirement that once anybody marges a pull request that closes a Github issue, you have to come and update this sheet. Or you have to do that all by yourself. So it is possible for first, it's possible for a GitHub issue to be linked to a pull request and when the pull request is merged the GitHub issue is automatically closed. But that doesn't always happen. And therefore, the condition you're describing I think is very much possible, not terribly frequent, but very much possible that there could be a GitHub issue. For instance, let's go take a look. One of these 118 issues could be already resolved and someone just needs to double check. I don't know what you're asking Zenab or maybe I just understood your question. Yes, yes, yes, that's exactly what I'm asking. So there definitely is a place for people to triage and check. Hey, is this working now or not. Okay. All right, this is my question. Thanks. So, Zenab, I had actually assumed we would probably spend most of the time today with any topics you had. I'm going to pause here I was just going through the list of things that people could help with. Are there specific areas that are interesting to you that we should review. Actually, you know, even from the last meeting we had, we agreed that this meeting was going to be focused majorly on things that you're going to be handing over things that we could help with. So since I came in late, probably just watch the recording afterwards to catch up on the part I missed, but you can go ahead. Okay, great. All right, well then let's continue. So we were talking about what we were discussing was what it would mean to prepare the documentation track for the contributor summit. And we were discussing different ideas of things that might be discussed in that contributor summit. Things like wiki replacement, what would it mean what would it mean for us to technically replace the current read only wiki wiki dot Jenkins.io with something else, a static website or redirects to www dot Jenkins.io or something else. So those were those were the kinds of taught that was one topic that might be on. And before that topic reaches contributor summit it should be discussed in the Jenkins docs mailing list. And, and ideas should be checked, possibly prototypes should be done so that people can be thinking about it before they ever come to a meeting about it for the contributor summit. Okay, that makes sense. So that that was one. Another was wiki migration in moving documentation that exists now in the wiki to Jenkins.io. And, and one of the problems is we've taught people how to do it, but it's almost completely stopped. And so one question was should we plan an event to reinvigorate it, or should we prepare for an existing event like Hacktoberfest that will be in October to make sure that we are very well prepared for Hacktoberfest contributors to come in and spend a little bit of time and give us good pull requests that are improvements in migrating documentation from wiki to to to Jenkins.io. So those were two ideas of, of things that might be good preparer work where be great to have someone help and that's why we were just reviewing the status sheet that talks about which pages haven't been migrated, etc. Okay. I think it would be good to go with both. Because I remember the UI UX Hackfest last year went a long way. I think we had contributors during that event. So if you have an event to reinvigorate the migration and also have to profess it to get help getting more contributors. Yeah, the, and I agree wholeheartedly if we have the capacity. I would love to see it. I know I don't have the capacity. And so we would need volunteers to do that. And for me the use Hacktoberfest seemed like okay that's probably more likely to be successful. Rather than doing a separate event, but it still requires a lot of time and effort to be sure that we have. Well, one let's see for instance, we've got to be ready to show an online meetup ready for a Jenkins online meetup to start Hacktoberfest. And that means demonstrations. How to examples, etc. And then how do they find the tasks so so there's a lot of work just to do a Hacktoberfest that we already know what it means. A separate event is even bigger. Yeah. I'm also wondering how do we promote Hacktoberfest from Jenkins site. Right good question so and that's things like usually what we do is rewrite promote it with promote with log posts, Twitter posts, LinkedIn posts. So as we get close and then a Jenkins online meetup to start and a Jenkins online meetup to end. So those have been common things that we've done in the past and each of those needs someone who's willing to do the work to create that thing. Right. Okay. With this, are we able to reach to, let's say college students because I think those are the ones if correct me if I'm wrong, those are the ones who contribute more. Right, right good point so other promotional locations. For instance, Oleg did a presentation to code for cause India. And that was very well received and if you're aware of other organizations like that. That would be very interesting. We're happy to go talk to other places about, Hey, this is this is where we can. And that makes it even more important that we have lots of things ready to receive it if we get 100 students who all want to contribute. Each of them is going to take a good first issue and we therefore had to have at least 100 issues ready. I think the event I mentioned was in last week or so. I think where I mentioned you're looking for people to present hold workshop open and open source day. I think that will also be a good opportunity to talk about this and get more contributed. Yes, yes. I have a meeting with them on Friday. That's tomorrow. So I have more updates on that at the next meeting. Great. Okay. And, and certainly Oleg and I and others. I suspect we could even per se Chris Kristen to be one of the voices for things like that to talk about how you do, how you do this or how you do that. Yeah, that would be great. And then I'm just checking is Kristen still here so she heard me say her name. Yeah, I'm here. I'm just threatening you with something. It's all good. Yeah, no, I can help. Okay. So, so those are those are good examples of places where. Yes, we want to get to more than just people who already know about Jenkins. Absolutely. Okay. Yes, I agree. Yes, so go ahead. Okay, so I think about how we can reach out to college students because they will be very willing to contribute to these good first issues. Yes, so I'll let you know if I can find any kind of ways other ways where we can reach out to them. Excellent would look well and and that that may be a different space that's there is, it would be feasible to say hey we would like to do an advocacy segment. An outreach segment in the contributor summit as well there is an advocacy and outreach special interest group that would love to have your insights on ways to reach university students ways to reach college students. Because, because we're confident there are many that would be interested in and glad to learn about Jenkins and glad to contribute. That's awesome. So how can I contact them. Is there a video channel. There is so the here let's let's just put it right here, advocacy and outreach SIG. Let's put it out here so as get her. And I'll paste in the get her link. Just a moment. Okay, so advocacy and outreach is here. And then. Yeah, it's not going to fit on one line no matter what. And then there is the mailing list. I think if we look at my Google groups list. We should be able to find that. And that's where those discussions happen so Jenkins advocacy and outreach is right here. And either of those places there are people who are, are working diligently to so if you'd like to be involved in how to reach university students, how to reach college students. That's, that's a great way to do it. Alyssa, and I can even give you a name. Alyssa Tong is very interested in reaching college students. Awesome. Great. And tell her Mark wait sent you. Sure. Okay. Yes. So, any, anything else there on Hacktoberfest or on events for wiki migration. So the main aim behind all these events is that we get contributors and they stay with us on for a long run. Right. So, so they're there I think there are two parts we want contributors because it's great that they get the experience. And if one in 50 of them or one in 100 of them stay with us that's also great. The Hacktoberfest experience has repeatedly shown us that we get some interesting contributions. And even with the interesting contributions, they, they still are not likely to stay with us and that's okay they've still contributed. Right. So it's a two way process. Correct. Okay. All right. So, any, any questions or topics any questions or further things there on on the wiki migration idea. Yes, I saw the video that you in which you demonstrated how to do this how to do the migration. So, maybe I was not that technically sound that time but I was not able to follow those instructions. Okay. All right, good. Well, and, and if, if the instructions are inadequate. That's a great excuse for us to create better instructions, or to highlight better techniques to perform those tasks. So, if, if the video are not clear. Let's fix them. Let's create new or write documents with stepwise with step by step instructions. Yes, I just, I just shared it because maybe if someone who has like minimum knowledge as of me, even he or she would also be able to do the migration. Yes, that's it for this topic. So the, the other topic then was and again this is all part of this potential contributor summit. We could talk about LFX community bridge project ideas. We've been talking about should we continue Jenkins on Kubernetes as a funded project. Right now, our why Sudakar is working on the, the topic without even being funded and the PR has been submitted. And the first PR was for plug in installation manager. Oops, oops, I got this backwards. I said it wrong. I said it correctly typed it wrong. There. Okay. We are almost out of time. Are there any other topics that we that are there. This was, these are ideas that I had are there any of these that you'd like to discuss before we before we end for today. Okay. Yeah, so that's that's a and that's certainly a hot topic. Jenkins uses often uses master, I think, insensitive and inappropriate terminology. So, so we had previously called the central the central process, the master process, and it's now called the controller. But the documentation the plugins the core even are not all updated for that we used to call the agents that were connected slaves, and now we call them agents. There's a lot of things like that let's see we used to have things called white lists, which is now an allow list, and we had black lists, which is now a deny list, and there's a long set of terminology like that. And those terminology updates require changes to, let's see they require require plugin changes. They require core changes. Sometimes they require compatibility work to retain compatibility while still replacing the poor terminology. And this, this, this kind of work allows you to do work in many different locations. It could be compiling Java code it may be working on online documentation it could be working on online help inside Java code all sorts of things. Right. And can you also, maybe if you have time can you also go through the second last point. The documentation is code. Yes, you bet so that one, there is see the migration, the docs migration page. And it goes like this Jenkins. Docs wiki exporter. So this page will like take a little bit of time to act to open that there we go. What this shows is the progress we've made migrating plugin documentation from the wiki into the source code repository of the of the plugin. And you can see that we've successfully completed 684, but we still have over 1000 yet to do. So there's there's still a lot of work to do on this project. Now, now how do you do that. There are we have video tutorials on how that process is done. You can link to them separately after a session here today. Sure. Okay. Yes, definitely. We've hit the end of the time that I've got available, anything else before we close. Nothing from my side. Nothing. All right, I'll post the recording probably later today or tomorrow. Thanks everybody. Thank you very, very much now. I will be available again next week on this at this same time, but two weeks from now I will not that will be post surgery for me. Thanks very much for all you're doing. I'll look forward to talking to you at future office hours. Bye. Bye everyone.