 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Hello, and welcome to Think Tech Hawaii, and it never got quiet. This is a half-hour program that explores the Hawaiian connection with the Vietnam War. I'm your host, Vic Kraft. The Vietnam War began over a half-century ago when Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, giving then-president Johnson extraordinary powers in dealing with the conflict in Southeast Asia. There were over three million service members deployed to Southeast Asia. More than 58,000 were killed. Many people today either do not know about the war or have a vague recollection of it. As time goes on, more veterans of that war will pass away, and the experiences and the wisdom these people gained will be lost forever. This program is an attempt to capture those experiences so that we may benefit from them. Wars are fought by individuals. The grand strategies and political goals become meaningless to those who World War II cartoonist Bill Mullen termed the benevolent and protective brotherhood of them what has been shot at. The domino theory is irrelevant when hot lit is flying past your head. The upcoming Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War is already stirring up controversy. It is not the intention of this program to explore arguments for or against the war. It is simply a place where those from Hawaii who participated in that conflict can relate their experiences and feelings and their lives after the war. We named this program It Never Got Quiet. As most of us from the time we arrived in Vietnam to the time we left were never too far from the sounds of war. Some of us have never truly become rid of those sounds even today. Although most of the people in what was called in country were exposed to hostile fire, many filled supporting roles from clerks, cooks, mechanics, medical and logistics personnel, and other occupations that did not pull triggers. In a World War I American Infantry Division there were but a handful of people in the support function by comparison to the number of those who did the actual fighting. By the time the Vietnam conflict rolled around the complexity of war had driven the number of personnel in support functions to the point where just a little over one-third of a combat infantry division were in combat arts. Many studies continue to be done but some do not address the larger picture wherein all functions support the grunt or infantrymen. That means all these organizations be they in the same armed service or combination of services. The question then becomes is the technician responsible for maintaining a piece of electronics just as critical to the fighting ability of an organization? The answer would most certainly be yes. Joint operations include members from different branches of the armed forces. A good example of this was the war the fought in the Mekong Delta. A mobile riverine force or MRF which subsequently became known as just the riverine or a more colloquial terms the brown water navy was a joint force of U.S. Navy and U.S. Army personnel that patrolled the numerous rivers and tributaries that make up the Mekong Delta. The Delta is an area of over 15,600 square miles or almost four times the size of the Big Island. To patrol such a vast area required coordination and communications. Troops were transported throughout the region by a wide variety of naval vessels some not so conventional. These people needed to be fed extracted supplied with ammunition and when necessary evacuated evacuation of the wounded and the dead. Our guest today is Shad Kane. Shad enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1966. He was trained to be a radar repair technician and was assigned to the cruiser USS St. Paul. He later volunteered to go in country as a member of the riverine. After just charge from the neighboring Shad served for 34 years in the Honolulu police department. Shad is an author and the founder of Kalea Loa Heritage Park in Kapolei. Loa ha, Shad. Welcome. Aloha. What did you do prior to going into the military? I mean you must have had some something in mind before the Vietnam conflict grabbed you. Well actually I was born right here in November first of all and a place called Pro City Peninsula in 1945. At that time the Pro City Peninsula was actually Navy I mean was a civilian property. Then in uniform my whole life I went to a Catholic grade school and graduated from Command Mayor and then subsequent to that went to Utah State spent a couple years at Utah State and at that time I was in Air Force Hour with the UC. I didn't finish school mainly because at that time I was kind of somewhat disappointed in myself and the fact that I was really kind of hoping for a career in the military and so I was part of the Utah State's Air Force Hour with the UC and before you go into your junior year you got to declare whether you want to go into the pilots program or the navigators program but I had my heart set on being a pilot and in order to get into that program we had to go to the University of Utah in Salt Lake City and take a test in a simulated aircraft and I hate saying it but I didn't do too well in that. I became very disappointed you know so I actually left school and returned home and at that time my brother was actually in the Navy so during the time I was home I decided to join the Navy and in 1966 October of 1966 I went to Boot Camp in San Diego and subsequent to that my whole first year was I attended different Navy schools so after Boot Camp I spent some time in San Diego's basic electricity school and then I had declared to become a radar then so I went to Treasure Island which is an island in San Francisco Bay where I went to the Navy's radar A school so I spent that whole first year going to going to school and subsequent to getting out of radar A school I was assigned to the St. Paul Heavy Cruiser and so two years 67-68 I spent two cruises on the St. Paul and we were involved in naval gunfire support in the area of the DMZ between South and North Vietnam so and we were actually exposed to fire during that time as a matter of fact that first year we got hit on a on a port bow where we ended up having to go back to Subic but in those waters I became extremely impressed with the river boats because oftentimes we would meet with the PCFs which are slightly larger, much larger than PVRs, river patrol boats so I became very impressed with the sailors working on those uh working on those boats so it was in 68 where I decided to leave the St. Paul and join those uh those sailors who were working at the Brownwater Navy so that's how it all started I came back to San Diego I went to survival school in San Diego Coronado Island and then my first assignment was to participate or assign to the commander river patrol for till five and we coordinated communications between the river boats and the command structure associated with the naval command structure within Ben Luc. Ben Luc is about 90 miles south of the city so my first assignment was at Ben Luc in South Vietnam. Excuse me you went further north I believe up the but what I have to explain to people is the vast area that had to be patrol okay as I mentioned four times the size of the big island it's a huge area the number of people that you had the number of assets that needed to be controlled I think you mentioned to me the accidental incursions into Cambodia and uh river patrol for till of five coordinated communications out of Ben Luc. Ben Luc is like I said about 90 miles south of Saigon but we coordinated the activities and communications with several river divisions that were all on the Van Cotay River there's actually two rivers that's actually the intersect just south of where we were located the Van Cotay and Van Codong rivers those two rivers originate in Cambodia in the area that is referred to as the Parrots Beak so much of the time I would have to say that most of our work was even for the river boats was kind of boring with respect to small periods where it became extremely exciting okay so there were several Navy bases along the the Van Cotay River where we monitored communications with the the river boats okay let me be really clear it's it's not just PBAS or river boats uh amongst the boats that that we had assigned to our command were uh what we referred to as zipples which were flamethrowing boats there were monitors which uh were a boats that had a one or five howitzer mounted on them and that we had tangle boats and these tangle boats uh would transport the draftees and Navy seals and we would set them up in ambush in different places along the river system river system along the Van Cotay River for example it was not just simply patrolling the rivers that oftentimes that involved just checking papers on sampans and making sure that these were friendly sampans and not sampans that were transporting weapons down south because this is a period in time 67-68 where the VC were pretty far south already and they had integrated into different communities and villages along the Van Cotay and Van Codong River and oftentimes they made their presence known at night so during the day they would integrate into the villages and the villagers that were very concerned about making their presence known because they didn't want to have a difficult situation with the VC so oftentimes we did not know a whole lot about which respect to where these people were so part of our job was not just communicating but to assist with insertion of draftees and Navy seals along different areas along the river system and oftentimes we would identify three fire zones and no fire zones so oftentimes the no fire zones were places where civilians had lived the big problem for our boats is that oftentimes at these VCs we would receive fire more from no fire zones than from free fire zones and this was the situation up when you go further north along the Van Cotay River so subsequent to six months at Ben Luck I was reassigned to Ben Kale so Ben Kale is along the the Van Cotay River and it's about 20 clicks 20 miles south of the Cambodian border and it was during this period 67-68 where we were experiencing a lot of firefights with respect to that that area along the Cambodian border so on one and in our boats oftentimes would would try to stay within South Vietnam but there's no signs so there was one situation and I hate saying this but it did probably happen often but on one occasion it was discovered that we actually went into Cambodia and that we were made aware that our boats were in Cambodia so anyway I think that was actually a national lose way back at that time so that in that period of time I was assigned to the NLC staff actually in Tainin province so Tainin province butts right up against the Cambodian border so that was extremely hot area not just along the Van Cotay River but also on land so I'm not sure if our listeners are familiar with the monkey mountain so monkey mountain is actually in Tainin province but it's a it's a mountain that was had a lot of VC tunnels not just residents but operations within the monkey mountain so so I spent my first half of that that year in bedlock can we come back to that in a minute because we need to take a break here for a couple of messages and we'll be right back with Shad Connie this is Think Tech Hawaii raising public awareness I'm Helen Dora Hayden the host of Voice of the Veteran seen here live every Thursday afternoon at 1 p.m on Think Tech Hawaii as a fellow veteran and veteran's advocate with over 23 years experience serving veterans active duty and family members I hope to educate everyone on benefits and accessibility services by inviting professionals in the field to appear on the show in addition I hope to plan on inviting guest veterans to talk about their concerns and possibly offer solutions as we navigate and work together through issues we can all benefit please join me every Thursday at 1 p.m for the Voice of the Veteran Aloha I'm good I'm good I'm good but I have a story and I don't know where to start I feel alone in the crowd I can't sleep I feel overwhelmed I don't even know who I am anymore I still have nightmares I can't live like this anymore I'm really not so good but are you ready to listen you'd be to tell me 15 minutes with bye already well we're with Shad Connie and we're talking about his experiences in the Mekong Delta during the Vietnam War you mentioned something earlier about the the troops you said the draftees there is a huge age difference even when you're 19 and 23 you had mentioned that most of the guys within the riverine were in their early 20s to late 20s yeah most of us assigned to the river divisions we're all in for the most part we're all in our 20s so we're most of us were like 22, 23, 24, even older than that so most of us have already been in the Navy for a while but we we worked often with draftees and you know what really surprised me about the draftees at that time most of them were teenagers at least to us they looked for the most popular kids so we were kind of somewhat so as sailors you got to understand we're sailors look we were just surprised that there were so many young kids drafted at that time that we were actually taking and setting up in ambush positions at night and the striking thing to us is that it was very obvious that these young guys were kind of really most of them looked like they were all underweight and the ones that we worked with because we were in a very hot area most of them had actually been in vietnam for a while so they've experienced firefights those that that were assigned to us in our particular area so they were somewhat uh familiar with getting involved in firefights so it was very obvious to me that the fighting kind of took their toll on these young men just by looking at them and having a simple conversation with them it was almost difficult to kind of get a sense that they're they look like they were somewhere else if you can understand what I'm saying when you're having a conversation with somebody which in our minds is really important stuff because we're taking these guys and setting up in ambush the next that night to set them up it seems like almost most of them that I had a personal conversation with over lunch they seem almost in a daze and like uh they were they were they don't feel anything they were just like simple machines just responding to orders and duties and what they got to do and just do them so we're kind of very that's not just me it's even the sailors that that work side by side with they all kind of had that we all kind of fell bad for you know so uh we're in boats we're on the base so we feel safe but we're taking these young guys up along the river banks and with our zippers we burn the foliage to clear when we open fire with our fifties arm to make sure there's no enemies in that area but then we have to to drop them off and oftentimes we're dropping them off not on land oftentimes it's really hard to tell how deep the water is so oftentimes we're actually dropping these young draftees in deep water and we're watching them struggle in the water and it it really uh breaks your heart to see us putting in them these young kids in that kind of situation so that's the kind of stuff I'll never forget I'll just never forget what we did our effort was to help but oftentimes uh when you look at the specific times and circumstances under which we were involved in it's almost difficult for us to feel good about what we were doing so it's a tough part of the Vietnam War you said memories I know that you have a marvelous sense of service you had to have had in order to volunteer to go to the river but you carried it on after you got out of the Navy and actually ended up at the Honolulu police department spending 34 years there do you reflect upon that time as being similar to being in combat or are your experiences in combat have any relation to your time in the HPD it does and it's more than just that I think it's our generation that we came from there's a sense of commitment and making contributions uh and that's what life is all about you know we're defined by the contributions and sacrifices we make that's who we are and as I said I spent my whole life in uniform all the way from kindergarten I was in uniform so that sense of service I think is this kind of this it's a part of you after a while and that's how I hate talking about myself but I think that's kind of how I define myself you know whenever I get to the point where I'm about to leave this world I want to be able to look back and feel good some things I did and I don't think I'm the only person I'm sure a lot of people who do volunteer service volunteer work in similar kinds of projects to the Kalei Law Heritage Park I think they all they all develop that kind of sense of sacrifice and contributions not so much sacrifice but doing things for other people the Heritage Park is that kind of place the Heritage Park is for future generations to understand what life was like in the past so I think everyone our generation kind of pretty much feel the same way if I can bring that up just to hold this up Shad wrote this book it's called uh Cultural Kapolei and basically you did an awful lot of research on the history of the first Polynesians that came into that area down by the old barber's point and if you haven't already folks take advantage of it these are great docent you'll take you around the park it's fascinating history it's fascinating heritage for all of us you left uniform but you still have a sense of duty to provide the community with a link to the past but as you said a direction to the future and I think that's what we wanted to do when we were in service was we felt that we were doing our duty and helping the country helping the community and whereas you took it to the next step and you actually put a uniform on to serve and to protect I want to thank you for that by the way but uh yeah I admire people who at least recognize that in themselves and I want to thank you again for that tell us a little about the park though I mean what caused you to get involved with that I'll try to make this roof as I actually grew up to assimilate into the western world it wasn't until later on I was through my grandfather my grandfather was a blacksmith on the big island Portuguese ancestry so there was always cowboy stuff around so I as I grew up I actually got more involved in cowboy stuff I had horses, rode horses, I did some roping and all those kinds of things I read a lot about the Indian culture then there are plains Indians the northern plains the the Shia and the Santisuit one day my wife and I went on a western tour and we uh we flew to uh Spokane I mean we flew to Seattle rented a car drove to Spokane drove across the Coraline Pass stopping ground to the next first Indians into Montana Boseman to Big Horn Memorial we were all the way Wyoming all the way to Pahosapa to get the black hills part of that was because of its sacred nature to the northern plains Indians at that time I wanted to find a place where they were actually making Indian crafts because I was already involved in making Indian feather work and we found this place called Prairie's Edge and that very interesting my wife and I enjoyed looking at all the Indian stuff that was purchased from Native American Indians but I accidentally bumped into an old guy and I took a look at him I suddenly realized I was looking at my first real Indian because most of the Indians I know are half Hawaiian, part Cherokee, half of Hawaii, part Caucasian, part Cherokee or part Indian so I never really saw a real Indian on that day uh I was stunned by standing next to this guy had to be in his 80s long white hair cowboy clothes big cowboy buckle cowboy hat his face had so many wrinkles I don't think I ever saw another man with that many wrinkles in his face a conversation went like this and that's how it all started we started talking about Indian culture we started talking about all the battles between the uh the northern plains with the seven cavalry and it came down to this defining moment he asked me what tribe I belong to I hesitated and I said I was Hawaiian where I must have said that hundreds of times before that day on that particular day I actually heard me say it I don't know if it makes sense to you or any of you listeners but I actually heard me say it the next thing he said is you know you come from so far away and you know my culture more than my children and my grandchildren you know what I heard him say he was talking about me so when I came back home I gave up all the Indian stuff I had I quit doing cowboy things I moved I rented ten acres of the Campbell estate and I started doing trail riding and it started with that it started with all the many discoveries I made and that ancient Hawaiian past and it ended with us working at the Kalei Little Heritage Park and restoring a cultural landscape and it's a marvelous work that's in progress uh you've had uh university people come down there botanists biologists and archaeologists and actually showing how large the community was and what it did and how it survived but there's there are lessons there for us it's really a partnership I don't want to make you seem like it's just us who's involved in the heritage park it's a 501c 3 private nonprofit the Kalei Little Heritage and Legacy Foundation and that uh we we got a right of entry back in 2010 the land was actually conveyed from the Navy to the state in 2010 and then we got a right of entry uh back at that time and then in 2010 we got the lease I mean I'm sorry of 2015 we got the lease we have a 501c tree and we have an eight member board so it it kind of uh all started with that but however I don't want your list is getting the impression it's just us the success of the heritage park has been the result of the many partnerships that we've established it's a heritage park so the idea is not to it's it's not meant to change so it's meant to restore what once was so we work in partnership for example with the University of Hawaii, Manoa, West O'ahu, Leroy with respect to their the botany department so they help identify the native plants and once thrived in that area so we it's an effort to restore not not preservation of the cultural landscape to restore that biological resources that once did this one example of many that's great like to thank you Shad for being on the program we would love to have some feedback we were also looking for people to interview if you have some comments or would like to appear on the program please send us an email at 808 vietnamvet at gmail.com I would like to thank the staff here at Think Tech Hawaii for all their support and assistance and truly without them there would never be and never got quiet if you'd like to know more about the information on Kalea Loa Heritage Park please go to their website at H-T-T-P-W-W-K-H-L-Foundation.org Mahalo