 Welcome, everyone. It is 3 o'clock. We are here to talk about belonging. I am inviting you in the first, say, 30 seconds, one minute, use your QR scanner, and do a word or phrase that best describes how you're currently feeling about diversity, equity, and inclusion at your organization. Or you can use menti.com and this code. And it is anonymous, so. And it will build a word cloud, and then we'll share with you the pulse of the room. Let's go ahead and get started here. So, welcome to Beyond Inclusion. As you can see, well, I was going to say, as you can see from all the words, we're going to show the word cloud at the end now, just due to technical things going on. And we'll go over that. But just to introduce myself, I'm Ellie Fanning. I'm the Director of Marketing and Business Development for Lullabot. And this is Nikki Flores, who is one of Lullabot's technical PMs. Let's see, we both, we're both part of the, we have an inclusion and equity working group at Lullabot that we participate in. So this obviously is a very, as a topic that's near and dear to both of our hearts. And you want to say some stuff, too? Yeah, certainly. I would like to acknowledge that both of us are speaking today from the perspective of middle-aged women, I'm going to guess, about you. We are both highly educated. We have college degrees. We both live in North America and have lived here all of our lives. I am mid-career and you are, too. And I've been at Lullabot for four years. And Ellie has been at nine years or six years. And so we both have a search and level of perspective, which may or may not overlap with your own perspective or the perspectives of other people at our employee-owned company. I'd also like to recognize for those listening in on audio, I am wearing a tie-dyed T-shirt, blue pants. Ellie is wearing a gray blazer and a pattern shirt. And we are standing on land that was taken from Native Americans stolen. And we are based in Pittsburgh at the Lawrence Convention Center. And I'd also like each of us to just, yeah, take a moment. We're here to discuss something that is not something that I would think you would hear at the Drupal Conference. So I'm really glad that there's a track interest and ideas about this. And there's a wayfinding we'll be doing about ten slides plus some introductions. And then we'll have time. We're asking if you can hold your questions. We'll have a fair amount of time at the end. Sounds good? Thumbs up? All right. So just quickly about Lullabot, we were one of the first Drupal agencies to exist. We do obviously Drupal development. We do design and strategy as well. We are a 100% remote team. We've got over 60 employees scattered across the globe. And we specialize in creating large-scale digital publishing systems, especially multi-site systems. And these are just some of our clients. So in 2021, we became an ESOP. An ESOP that stands for Employee Stock Ownership Plan. It basically means that every employee in the company has true ownership, which in a sense is true equity in the company. So we became the ESOP, which is actually, so oftentimes we hear about equity with that graphic, with the three baskets or buckets and somebody's standing on one and like that is equity. I think for Ellie and I, we recognize that and also acknowledge that your share in the company and my share of the company, I'm much more willing to call Ellie out on anything that I see that may improve or help our company because we both benefit from the bottom line. Likewise, if Ellie sees something about my work that could be improved even incrementally, even one day of worth of increment change, she's going to help me do that because we're accountable to each other and to our shared bottom line and to our children and to our livelihood. So I think the idea of an equity relationship is what we're here to talk about. And then again, for a Forbes article that we found in 2022, in terms of the diversity, equity inclusion aspect of it, 68% of business leaders recognize that a lack of diversity in the tech workforce, despite company spending about $8 billion a year on DEI training. So I want you to look back in your memory or your understanding of where your current company is investing in diversity, equity, inclusion and justice efforts, consider a bigger spend or consider some tangible outcomes that you can see in your day to day life, whatever that effort is, there has to also be outcomes deliverables. So the benefits of having an equitable work environment. It allows you to be agile, be culturally competent, be able to work with a variety of viewpoints, build a more thoughtful and end product and retain employees. This is, by the way, our current technical project management team. And it's worth mentioning we decided if we wanted to show what the technical project manager team looked like when I applied or when Ellie joined six years ago, but we thought the thing is when are you looking at the staff when you're applying to jobs? Like I looked at every single person on that staff list. And so if you don't think that representation matters, then you may not be the person who the representation mattering needs to matter to you, if that makes sense. Okay. So DEI encompasses so much. Most of you have known about the items on the left hand column, which are race, color, religion, pregnancy, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, and age and disability genetic information have been added from the list of things that cannot be discriminated against. Oh, yeah, that's the EOC. Okay. But on the right hand side, there are many alternate formats of inclusion. So these could be things like, do you have veterans on your staff? What is the political affiliation of the mix of people at your organization? What is the marital status? Like are people making decisions on health care plans on a certain framework and have not thought about all the different ways that people are partnered in your country or your work? Work experience or style, we work all remote. So there's a preference to people who are able to self organize and organize their own work at home, because we all are remote. Some people may prefer to work in an office. So we may be not setting people up for success if they're looking for an office. So we invest in people using their education funds to go to a co-working space, if that's what works best for them. Educational level, like I mentioned, both of us have higher levels of education, but that may not be the case for your staff, your team, your allies, your partners, your customers. Family responsibilities. What types of support do you have hardwired into your policies to support people who have other responsibilities at home? Oh, which may not be the case with your leadership. So this is my questions to you to think about diversity, equity, inclusion, beyond what is on the left. Socio economic status, not everybody knows the same things that you do, right? Not everybody knows the same skills or the same types of information that you may take for granted. Neurodivergent status, we had a great talk. And if you look at the videos, the first talk this morning was about neurodiversity here in Drupal. And then gender expression. Anybody have anything that is not covered on this list? Please. Yeah, so we have some agencies who are organizations started with a main office, and then over COVID, like all of us have adapted, folks have either worked from home or have become remote or moved during the pandemic. And so now there may be structures in place that other the folks who are remote or they may be forgotten or they might might not have the right weight to dial in to zoom meetings or whatever. So that's something for your organization to think about who's local and who's not other ideas. Neurodivergent status covering mental health status. It's a question for your folks and particularly the folks who are coming up with policies and insurance related and medical and health related items. Do they consider mental health to be important? If they do, then they'll prioritize that as being supported. If they don't think it's important, it won't be. And why? Why is this important? So I do encourage you to take a look at mission vision and values on lullabot.com. Unfortunately, we're challenged and don't know how to show it on the screen. But take a look at lullabot.com. Want to talk about attracting high quality candidates. Those of you in the room know Drupal is a skill that is in high demand and you can choose where you want to go. And my sense is that the more discerning we are and the more outspoken we are about what we're looking for, it'll be easier for companies to adapt to that. Employee retention stats. So I learned that a replacement cost for an employee that walks out your door, let's say you hire your staff person, you've been to the interview process, you've trained them, now they have resigned, left, moved, terminated. That replacement cost can be as high as 50 to 60%. So if your employee makes, say, $60,000 a year, then it costs your organization, like Ellie and I's share price, it costs us an average of $30,000 to $45,000 just to replace that employee and then another $54,000 to $120,000 in losses to the company. So this is bottom line. If you needed to make the case to your CEO, your CFO, your HR director, this, this is important for attracting your high quality candidates and keeping them, as well as your bottom line. I do want to share a quote from one of my former colleagues who passed away from COVID in the very beginning, he wants to be at work with an organization where he can retire, I fully intend to retire Lullabod. Okay, so we're going to go into the actual 10 tips that we had and I want everybody to know in the room, Ellie and I are not speaking as experts, we're speaking to you from our experience implementing this at our organization. I've been with the company since 2019. We have a long way to go. We've had a lot of iterative processes. I encourage you to take this as a starting point and build on it at your own organization. You may be able to do certain things. You may not be able to do certain things. Take from the list, take notes, and implement at least one. Showing your people. So why is this important? It lets your job applicants, like I mentioned, I looked at every single person on this staff, your current employees, your leadership, your clients, your partners know who they are working at. So you are saying this is who you are. And showing your people helps everyone understand where you are sitting today. Now, the subtext of this, of course, is that if your leadership, your staff, your current setup of people does not match the American demographics or the demographics of the place where you are serving, there may be a mismatch. And I highly recommend you start looking at where the census is taking us, and then determine what you need to do now to start recruiting those people in if you have a very homogenous or very kind of like standard set of people in your organization. If it's all, you know, this, if it's all that or it's all this, show your people, make sure that they're available. Put your team's photos on the website. You can look at lolabot.com. We have lots of photos. We're including bios and other info. We have lots of fun facts. I have three cats, there are Bourbon Kona and Howl on Instagram. What state they live in, we share that information. And showcase team members on your career page. This is something we haven't done yet, but also plan to do so. And we'd like to do videos and stories about cool things our team is exploring or doing hobbies. Doesn't have to be just what lolabot is. Also employee testimonials can be impactful. So circulating your job listings. This is tip two. So does anyone here have the responsibility for sharing job listings beyond your original HR? Yeah, so I encourage your your whole process. Consider where you're currently sharing those. And then think about what you can do otherwise. Okay, so yeah, why talent exists beyond your traditional challenges, channel channels, you can increase the number of candidates. I was hired to lolabot from diversifytech.co. I saw a tweet from Matt Westgate, who was our president or founder at the time. He said he was looking for a technical project manager. And I thought, huh, I might be able to do that. And then I saw it reiterated in Benny Kunche's diversity diversified tech.co newsletter. And so I thought, hmm, maybe that's a place. And when people see themselves reflected at the organization, they're more likely to apply. I'd encourage you to think beyond the traditional job boards. So we have had examples. We post we have had luck at diversifytech.co women and product, that's in tech, LGBTQ in tech. And if your job searching, the slack boards of these organizations oftentimes have the most up to date job postings. So I have found that not everything is a formal job listing with the formal, you know, page. Sometimes people are finding out about information from the internal networks from the connections we make here. So it's identify audit where you're currently speaking, and consider adding one or more of each of those others. Even if your culture is inclusive, there will be a disconnect if your brand doesn't showcase that. Many job listings are written with certain certain demographics in mind. And that can be unconscious or subconscious. On our little blog, we've talked about rock stars and ninjas, like the idea that when you put that onto a website, it can sometimes turn people who don't consider themselves to be a rock star don't consider themselves to be a ninja to work. So we understand that the employer might be looking for a certain type of candidate, but we run our job descriptions through our inclusion and equity working group. And through various, there's various tone and language tests, where you can then fine tune your job description to be more inclusive. We also published articles about our inclusion equity working group and our mental health initiatives. And we've created a belonging at Lullabot page. As a statement to make it clear that we are fully committed to do your organization have a referral policy, like if you bring somebody and they get hired, you get a bonus or a fee. So yeah, I'm very mixed on this. I think that let's say you have the first 10 people who say, Oh, this is a good culture fit because we all went to the same school, and we all feel comfortable with each other. And then you give them a referral to bring other people on and each of them bring somebody on. But now you have, you know, 40 people or whatever, who all feel like, Yeah, this is really comfortable. And I feel like this is a good culture fit. And then if somebody is outside of that, they'll never be able to penetrate in. And then your organization will also be like, Hmm, you know, this candidate, they're not quite a good fit for us, the culture fit. I just can't explain why. So you need to be able to explain what your values are. Okay, inclusion and action tip three create opt in spaces for expression connection. So our organization, we want to foster collaboration and the spirit of openness. This is some of our explicit values on our website. We have something called serendipity. So oftentimes what we found is people only socialize or connect with the people in their own level. So we have serendipity, which allows people in management, people on the design team, the development team, the PM team, and HR marketing to be able to serendipitously connect with each other. What you're trying to do is foster a way for people to break through some of their silos. Also, we want to allow smaller groups to be an anchor within your larger organization, it might be the cats channel, it might be, you know, a small group discussion. And also remember, these are all opt in. So we have slack channels. We have like a being human where we talk about personal lives, or just event. We have one called have fun where we answer fun random questions. We have cats, as I mentioned, health, just music, sports balls and reality shows. People are very interested in very different things, allow them the opportunity to do that. We have our Friday serendipity call, randomized breakout rooms to chat in a more intimate space. You won't feel like you embolden to really call somebody out or work with them in a deep level if you don't know anything about them. We also encourage employee directed working groups. These have popped up over the years at Lullaby. They've included our mental health working group, inclusion, equity, government work, security issues. So these are created by our employee owners and open to anyone who's interested to join. Okay, being explicit in communications. We 100% want to make any implicit assumptions explicit. So for example, are there social gatherings at your organization that where the real business gets done, but you are not aware of it or not everybody is aware of that because it wasn't explicitly shared. We want to make sure that it's easier for everyone to opt in to the desired behavior by explicitly saying what is that behavior. For example, we have a whole Google document about what it's okay to do at the organization. So examine your current onboarding. And this will surface any gaps or missing information. Like are you assuming that they're supposed to submit themselves to any of the Slack groups? If not, add a step to allow people to do that solicit feedback from your team to we do have, as mentioned, document of cultural norms. What are the norms that your organization? Is it okay to take a walk during lunch? It's okay to do your appointments in the middle of the day and come back. It's okay for you to do any number of items make that explicit so that anybody who's coming on board knows. Ellie did this for us at Drupalcon. What are you supposed to do? Where do you, where can you stay? What are you encouraged to wear? I didn't even know what the dress code was when I came to Drupalcon for the first time last year. I had to ask. So coming to a new culture can be overwhelming. So you have to have those cultural norms explicitly documented and that gives new hires a peace of mind about how things operate in their culture. Okay, also, put your mission vision and values explicit on your website. There if you if you don't do it, somebody else has already done it or will do it. So I would encourage you if you don't explicitly have it to put those statements up. And if you're not aware or if somebody needs prompting, have them look at the glass door, like reviews of your organization because people are willing to say stuff after they've left or the Korra or the Reddit results for your company. I've Googled the truth about working at and then the name of the company and you can see what people are saying if you're not saying it. We have our belonging at low about our core values and our engineering values listed. Okay, so cultivating the leaders from within. So we have consistent and growing support for the DEI leaders within our organization. And we believe that that's essential to our continued effectiveness. And why is this important? It's because compassion and understanding from our leaders sets the tone for the entire work culture. There are many voices determined who is currently being heard and who is not in the room when policies, procedures or decisions are being made. Also consider who will lead the next generation at your organization. We offer annual DEI training to all of our employees. We do this every year. There's a checklist. And when you go through, we have unconscious bias training among other things. And this leads to more awareness. We also invest in DEI workshops. We at one of our annual team retreats, we actually had a facilitator come and put us through exercises about diversity, which was very eye opening and insightful for a lot of us. And then I know there's been some some training with a brown training that some of our employees have been taking. But all of these things that we're investing in to help grow our knowledge of DEI and hopefully, you know, obviously cultivate DEI leaders within our team. And also this last point is let employers or sorry, let employees take the lead. You can't cultivate leaders unless you give them the space to lead. So when there are issues that anyone in the team is passionate about, or there are gaps that they see in our DEI efforts, proposing ideas or starting working groups is encouraged. Like Nikki has already mentioned, we do have an inclusion and equity working group. We also have a mental health working group. Both of these groups are employee driven. They've been started by employees and they're run by employees and they do they do make change within the company. Right. So where are we on number? Yep. Okay, so another another thing to do is invest in personal and professional development. This is very important. There are a lot of companies that do this. But in my experience, it hasn't always been done in an equitable fashion. Every single employee should have the same access to personal and professional growth. So this is important because it helps to cultivate your team's unique talents, which ultimately benefits your organization as well as the employee. It also boosts their confidence and helps empower them. And it gives each person the same opportunity to grow. So how can you do this? Some of the things that we do is that we provide each employee with an annual we call it our E&E budget, which is events and education. Every employee gets and I can tell you the amount that's on our website. I think it's $2,750 annually that they can spend to go to conferences or sign up for classes, buy books, whatever they want to do. It's also important to note that this budget should not be just restricted to learning more about your particular role within a company. There are a lot of things that people want to learn more about in their growth and on their path. So for example, I know we've had a developer take classes on meditation and some other things. And I've even thought about for myself, like do I want to learn more about UX design? Do I want to learn more about Drupal? I will not be a developer. I am not that smart. But I have thought about taking some courses outside of just marketing. So it should not be restricted. Another thing to do is if you give your employees a budget, give them the time to actually use it. We all have you know, PTO, but at Lullabout we have something called ETO which is education time off. So if you have your budget and you want to go to a conference, you can actually have days that do not take away from your vacation time to go to that conference. And the other thing is also encourage employees to use those budgets. Not everybody uses them. Sometimes people just get stuck and they don't really think about, you know, maybe they don't have an idea of what they want to pursue or what they're interested in for a particular year. So just having check-ins, maybe it's at the annual review or regular check-ins, but help employees kind of find their way and take advantage of that benefit. Support mental health. Mental health sadly has been long neglected in the workplace. We all know that, you know, burnout, stress, depression, anxiety and other mental health disorders, they impact all of us. Whether we're the ones going through it ourselves or people on our team are going through it, we are all impacted. And personally, I think employers, the exact folks who should be helping to helping employees with their mental health. Think about how much time we spend in the workplace. My God, I mean, it should be definitely a priority. It's interesting because in a Forbes article, there was a stat that said 40% of workers report that their job is very or extremely stressful. So that's a large percentage. Most people are stressed at work. And there's also another stat from the World Health Organization that says lost productivity resulting from depression and anxiety is estimated to cost the global economy $1 trillion each year. So that is significant. So how can you support mental health in your organization? For starters, you can respect autonomy. We all work differently. Some of us, we are more productive in the morning, some late at night. Some of us are juggling child care or elder care or other things like within our lives. So giving people the space and the flexibility to be able to take care of the things they need to take care of and also do their jobs is really important and helps reduce a lot of the stress. Also investing in programs for employees to improve their mental health. There are a lot of programs out there. We actually did a 30-day mental health challenge at Lullabot, which was great. The people who participated in that, some of them are actually probably here. But I think that was actually a pretty successful program. We got really good feedback on that. So that's one example. The other thing is to make sure that every member of your team has access to resources on mental health. Whether you get them through your benefits provider or whoever, but make sure they have resources to find the information they need. Not everybody is just going to come up and ask, like, hey, I have depression. I need to know some information. So just make that stuff available to people. And like we mentioned to you, we have a mental health working group. They also, they have been sending out newsletters with a lot of valuable articles, links to podcasts and other resources that they share with the team, which is really helpful. All right, practice transparency. I think it goes without saying that transparency is essential to an inclusive and equitable organization. But what does that actually mean and how do you apply it? You make pay ranges public. This should be done for all positions, including in job descriptions. So when I say for all positions, it should be done for every position within your organization and made public to the people within your organization. So everybody has an idea of what those pay ranges are. Indeed actually showed that 50, a study by Indeed showed that 56% of applicants were more likely to apply to a company that they were not familiar with if the pay range was actually included in the job description. So you are expanding also the number of candidates that you might not actually reach if you did not, if you did not divulge that information. Also share your financial information, sharing financial information with your team. We practice open book management, which allows all of our employees, each one of us, to understand the current revenue expenditures and KPIs of the company. And this has become especially important as an ESOP because we are all now employee owners. Also be transparent about how company decisions are made. Whenever their decisions made or processes put in place, it's always important to explain how those decisions were made, why they were made, or why those processes were put into place so that everybody is aligned on the reasons and there's just no reason or no room for speculation. This also helps to really build trust within your organization. All right, number nine is promote psychological safety. How do you make people feel safe? Or how do you make them know that they're in a safe space? So there are four pillars of psychological safety, feeling included, safe to learn, safe to contribute, and safe to challenge the status quo. So in doing all those without fear of being embarrassed, marginalized, or punished in some way. So this is important because as we all work through large, complex, tough challenges every day in our jobs, these things all benefit from the participation of all contributors. And if people don't feel safe to contribute or speak up, you're going to lose out on a lot of great contributions. It also surfaces issues and that means gaining a better understanding and better outcomes for all. So it's important to be okay with mistakes. You know, we're all human. We make mistakes. Nobody should be punished for making a mistake. Being empathetic when people do make mistakes. Also being able to say I don't know. You know, I know we've all been in situations where we think that, you know, we're expected to know something that we really don't, or people just think or we think we should know something that we don't. And we kind of can play it off sometimes. But really it's important to say you don't know and it's okay not to know. And I think that the more people within an organization that are comfortable with doing that, it's showing everybody that, hey, this is a safe space and it's okay not to know everything and let's help each other. Also providing plenty of channels for feedback and communication, whether that's feedback forms, having regular check-ins, office hours. We also do town halls every month where anyone can ask a question. Nothing is off limits. People ask questions. You can also, you can ask them anonymously if you'd like. So that makes people feel safe to ask the questions that maybe they aren't comfortable doing with their name attached. And then I added a fourth one on this one saying this is really important is collaborating openly. It's one of our core values and it's something that really encourages open participation. And we practice this in practically everything that we do. And I think this is also very important in terms of making people feel safe because anyone can jump in and collaborate when you're doing it openly. And it invites that participation, which is very important. And number 10, know what you don't know. You know, speaking as Americans, we have viewpoints that differ from other countries and cultures. And so it's we're not going to have it all figured out. And we certainly don't at Lullabot and that's okay. But it's important that you do these things. Be open to a growth mindset. If you're not open to growing and learning, you really have nowhere to go. Secondly, expand your knowledge. There are a lot of great resources out there. Read books and blogs, listen to podcasts and recordings, really educate yourself because the more you know and understand, you will uncover what I wrote, you're uncover your biases. So you will uncover biases, the more that you learn, also understanding your own history. You may not even realize the biases that you have. We have I'll have like a lot of unconscious biases. And even some of those, the exercises that I talked about or we have the facilitator, the EDI facilitator come to one of our annual retreats. I think uncovered some of those, I did for me. I didn't realize some of the things that I didn't, some of the biases I had that I didn't know I had. So in a nutshell, like, you know, if we all take measurable steps daily, we have the power to change our communities and our own lives. And so there you go. I'm going to turn back over to Nikki. Okay, so who here knows or interacts with it maybe at your work or at home? Anybody under the age of 20? Okay. Okay, so back to the US Census in 2020, which was three years ago, the 17 year olds and below of that era, there was no multiracial majority. So what does this mean? This means that the people that are entering into your workforce now, the people who are joining and looking at your job descriptions and deciding to join your company, there is no none of them have an experience of there being a majority demographic. That's something that I'd like you to reflect on. I'd like you to ask yourself what, if anything, is your organization currently doing to make your work environment inclusive for all peoples? And it might be like Ellie said, we don't even know what we're doing. We need to start a plan or we're doing some of what you've mentioned. We want to do more. If you are actively fostering a sense of belonging, and if you don't know, ask your team. If they say yes, continue what you are doing. If they say no, determine what is your next tangible step. It might be as easy as posting your job description salaries. That might be the easiest first step, you know, as you make the case. If people say they don't know, break things down into your next steps. And these are all at lb.cm slash beyond inclusion. And then in terms of action steps, we did want folks to brainstorm for your own organization. What it is that you want to do. I want you to continue to involve your team. This might be an ad hoc group. We started our inclusion equity working group as a slack channel, which then turned into a set of regular meetings. Our first step was for the meetings was to just set a date on the calendar, even set the date with folks that you know are interested in this and have an ad hoc discussion. Start with one thing. Don't overwhelm yourself with the laundry list of to-dos. Just do the first Mondays where you can sit chat, have a beverage and discuss what is currently working, what could be improved. Use your growth mindset. We do have some tips on our blog. I encourage you to just calendar yourself a monthly check-in to figure out, review and identify what you would like to fine tune at your organization. And yeah, let me find the word cloud. So if you recall, we had asked what was the one word or phrase. Go ask questions. Questions. Discussion. Do you have any questions? Yes. Multiracial. So you know, in the United States we've been predominantly white the demographics of folks who were a boomer agent of that generation have always primarily had a white male kind of like interface with the workplace. That's what a boss looks like. Today's youth like my son who's 20 who graduated has friends of all different backgrounds. And so they don't know what a boss looks like. Does that make sense? I mean, I'm a Gen X or so I'm definitely in a different mindset than say somebody young today, but their experience has been definitely experiencing different types of people or different types of background culture. And so they don't think that there's a norm. Other questions. Discussion. I mean, is it going to be hard at your organization? Like, are you hopeful? Do you feel scared? Is this something that? Yeah, absolutely. We're going to do this question. Absolutely. Yes. And I would highly one of my clients that I worked with. Priorly they put in their executive leadership and putting the executive leadership actually had a kind of reckoning for their leadership team because they said, oh, this leadership, we need to expand the types of people who are coming. Oh, this is so the discussion was that the organization is paying folks for their participation in the diversity, equity, inclusion and working group, which is an amazing thing. I would highly recommend if your group is meeting informally, consider if there is budget that you can give to them again, Lullaba is putting budget into the trainings. But that's definitely something I think as a woman and as a mom, like I'm very used to the idea of unpaid labor. And I hate to see a perpetuate at the workplace. So if there is any way that you can put those resources in, again, make the business case that anybody who leaves because they don't feel like they belong at your organization is taking their entire salary plus out the door. So you want to retain those folks, give them a place where they can grow, where they can consider themselves retiring. And if you are in a situation where that doesn't feel like your organization, ask yourself, what are the one, two or three things that you can do in the next quarter calendar yourself? Let's start working on that. Other people at your organization feel the same way. I also just to piggyback on that, I also think like with our company, especially we're in ESOP. So everything about the company, what we do to build it, the value, the equity that we build, all impacts our stocks and our, you know, what we get for retirement. So I think paying, I don't know, I think it would be a little, I don't know, I don't know if I'm on board with like actually paying people to do that inclusion and equity, like the working group thing, because I think that we're doing it because we're just, we're so invested in like making the company a better place. But I don't know, I think it maybe depends on like your situation. I certainly wouldn't turn down the money if they decided to do it. But I think I think maybe it's probably better if for our situation, I don't know, Jared is here. He's on our leadership team. Jared, you're gonna make that happen. Success time. Well, but that also doesn't apply to everybody. That's success time. So Matthew Tift is talking about our, our client services team, the billable team, they work 30 hours a week, they're on billable work. Then they have 10 hours a week for success time. That means learning, spending time in other, you know, doing other things like the inclusion equity working group. But that's not, that doesn't apply to everybody in the company because like for myself, I'm not billable. So I, I don't have success time. All my 40 hours a week are my job. So, um, so yes, some people are, but not everybody. So we're nearing the end of our time. Any questions, anything that you can kind of in your mind commit to or ask your leadership team about within the next week, if there's something you'd like to change. If you feel unhopeful about change, that's also its own indication at your organization. I encourage you to see some of the words of what folks are currently feeling, need some work, disjointed, complicated. We see very early stages, a goal, getting there, improved. Some people say this is surface level. I think that's actually quite challenging. It's like, hey, we're diverse. Thank you, everybody, for your efforts. But then people don't feel like they can take the time to go to their therapist's appointment. We see struggling, ongoing, invisible, accepting, disjointed. It's kind of all over the map for the folks in this room. So again, from Ellie and I's perspective, this is a starting point. And we encourage you to take your thoughts and start working with people in your company. Question, discussion. So before the questions before Lullaby came in ESOP, how were our values like open collaboration and transparency and own it, how were they built in? I guess that's something questions. Exactly the same. Nothing changed with that. That's been like that since the beginning. Pretty much being David Burns. By the way, just as he's walking up here, just to let you know the next session, our leadership team at Lullaby is actually doing one on the ESOP. So if you want to learn more about an ESOP, feel free to do that. Yeah, so David Burns, director of support maintenance with Lullaby for 13 years. We started as a shop that works with Drupal, right? So the concept is like we do open source. And that's kind of where the origination of collaborate openly is. And then when we got into more client services, building websites, we didn't just build the thing on our own and deliver it to a client. It became a very collaborative open conversation, get their feedback, apply it to the site. And we kind of took what we've learned from that system. And when we became ESOP, or even before ESOP, it was like, how do we apply this to how we run our own organization internally? Yep, I would definitely say we didn't have a change. And if anything, I would say people are more. It's easier to call somebody out because if they're not behaving in a way that's going to bring our shop price up or make our lives better, it's going to get called out last question. Totally. Yep, I'll definitely speak from the perspective of the mental health working group folks are like, Matthew Tiff, who was in the room like, we need to talk about mental health at Lullabot. Let's talk internally. Here's a open meetings calendar, a legitimate like, here's the appointment where anybody is invited that open meetings calendar goes to our general announcements slack. Anybody can come in. And they started building the agenda, building the decision making. And then that led to concrete change in terms of how what type of programs the company invests in because, you know, nobody in leadership is the expert on mental health, but they're bubbling up from the staff that we need these types of challenges. We had the challenge. We have an app to support mental health with ongoing messaging. We started meditation. Like there's so many things. And I think one of the ideas is that you want to unlock all of what your staff bring to the table because they have ideas. And if they're not if there's not a venue for that to be heard or evaluated or even floated, then it just it withers. And we work with each other sometimes we're spending more time with our colleagues and with our own families. We want to make our work a place where we want to be and grow and thrive. And I wish that for for each and every one of you. So you have two minutes left. You had a question. I saw your question. Oh, sorry. I was. Yeah. She's had her hand up for awhile. Sorry. Yeah, I hear you. I actually don't know. I don't have an answer for that. I want to continue the conversation. Please tweet us at Lullaby. And the main thing is are you in North America? North America, he's huge taboo to talk even to say, Oh, you are like a black woman. Like people like, Oh, we need to start recognizing identifying that each of us has our own background. And we have a story and to celebrate each other's stories. We all benefit. We all like I am an Asian. I'm an immigrant. I'm Filipino. I grew up speaking like I'm from North America. I became a citizen. Like these are all stories that I've shared with my team. And that's been enriching and wonderful for my team. And I encourage you to help build that conversation first of knowing people because only if you know somebody can you get down into the weeds of, well, why do you feel a certain way? What do you think we can do to improve? We are being asked to rap. Okay, one last question. World. The game. Okay, so everybody here. My email is Monica dear, D. R. at gmail.com. I am on the board. I just got elected. I will bring this to the leadership team. We definitely want to continue these conversations and make triple the place where everybody belongs. And I'm so grateful and thankful to work with each of every one of you to make triple the place where we want to be. Yeah, so you can find us on the website and reach out tweet us at Lullabot or just find our email. You can contact us.