 I'm going to call the meeting for the medical advisory subcommittee meeting to order. I'll take role. Meg Velia is present. So is Jim Romanoff. James Pepper is also present. Jim, do we have anyone else in the room with you? Just working media is recording this for the public. Okay. And then we also have some guest map buyers and Shane Lynn today as well. Did everyone, Jim and Meg, did you have a chance to review the minutes yet? I thought you had those earlier. If not, we can work to approve the next meeting. I'm sorry? I did have a chance to review those. You did it or did not? I did. Okay. Jim, did you have a chance for a review? Yeah. Any questions or discussion? Okay. Can I just get a motion to approve those and then we'll move on to our presenters. Motion to approve minutes from the last meeting. Second. Okay. So moved. And Meg, if you want to provide an introduction for us. Tom, can I pause for just one second? Sorry. Meg, are you Dr. Levine's designee? That's correct. That's right. Okay. I just want to clarify that. I'm sorry. Okay. And so we met buyers as a designee for Dr. Levine. And then Meg, I'll let you move on to our presentation to end. Shane, one of the things we were, well, I mean, there's a number of issues we're discussing in the subcommittee meeting, but one of them was in the context of protecting the medical patients as the transition moves to adult use legalization. And what Jim and Meg had discussed was creating, helping create or develop a baseline of products that would be available for medical patients. And I'm sure a number of other questions that we've discussed in the issues might come up as well. But with that, Meg, I'll go ahead and let you introduce our presenters. Sure. So this is Shane Lin. He is the president of CeresMed. Shane. Hi, everybody. Thanks for having me here today. Appreciate it. I got into cannabis here in Vermont probably about a dozen years ago, started going to the state house and sitting and committing meetings. And that all came about because I had family and friends that were using cannabis, you know, mainly it was cancer and the other was Parkinson's. And so for me, it was very personal. I've been study talking to community leaders and trying to understand, hey, what is the status of cannabis? I've learned that people could be growing at home. And I also then heard some stories of doctors who tell people to go to church street and ask people on church street if they could buy cannabis basically on the street. And that seemed really bad. And just around that time, Colorado was going through their medical opening and that really gave me the impetus to really get involved in medical cannabis and back to, you know, wanting to understand the process and so going to the state house to really understand what a program would look like. And while, you know, attending these committee meetings, I got to hear a lot of other Vermonters that were utilizing cannabis for their symptom relief and really started to gain appreciation for how dramatic the changes were for people in utilizing cannabis for their symptom relief. With that, I, you know, started talking to the community people how I go about creating a business and start really getting involved in building a business to dispense cannabis. And we literally started off with one other employee, myself and one other person and we've continued to grow over the years. Over the past eight years, we're up to 60 employees at this point and we're really dedicated to making sure that our products are the highest quality to our patients and that we have a diversity of products as well. This was an industry when we first started, we had a phone tree where we would call in case, you know, the phone tree of lawyers to call in case we got raided by the DEA. There was real potential threat that we would potentially be raided. Those were headline stories happening in California when we opened our doors and so there was that concern and, you know, yet I had staff and myself included willing to take that risk because it was something that we believed in. And part of this bigger picture of, yes, the cannabis plant and its ability to provide symptom relief was the social change around that as well. And so we've all been very active in that conversation over all these years at this point. It has been a huge investment in money, you know, over time. Like I said, we started with one employee. We started with, you know, basically a 400-square-foot dispensary. I was there myself in the first year's dispensing cannabis. So, you know, we had one office and we would see one person at a time and really got to know the stories of reminders coming in and how they were utilizing cannabis and some of the struggles they were having as well, which were always financial. The cannabis is, you know, out of pocket. There's no insurance involved. In the original bill that we operated under, there was a mandatory sliding scale. That was something that we took very serious and went through a lot of different iterations of how to manage a sliding scale and to make sure that it was fair across the board. What we ended at at this point is to utilize the three-square program in Vermont if you have a three-square card, that will get you on to our discount program so that there's a sliding scale. And we allow people to stack their discounts as well. You know, if you're a veteran on the sliding scale, we also have sales throughout the week that we highlight to our patients to make sure that it's affordable because everything is out of pocket. And we understand the expense of that for people. And so we've made all the efforts we can in the size of the program that we're operating under. It's a small program and it has, you know, stalled over the past few years, I would say. And those are difficulties for business in trying to maintain our service, our level of service because we understand when people, you know, our average age is probably about 52 to, you know, 53 on the dispensary, the folks that we serve, the splits about 50% women, 50% men. It's trending women right now. A lot of these people are novice cannabis folks when they come in the door. And so we spend a lot of time teaching people about cannabis as well. We don't just think it's the product that we're offering, but it's also the service that we're offering. We really try to inform people. We have a permanent position of an outreach director that reaches out to the hospitals in town, out to doctors as well. There's a lot of the conversations I used to go on those tours as well around the state, drive to a hospital, drive to a doctor's office. We do a presentation, you know, for about an hour. Inform people about the program, how it worked, what it didn't do, what it could do. And trying to really teach people about the Vermont law and then about cannabis at the same time. And we continue to, you know, utilize age as services and outreach. A lot of people we talk to just don't even understand that we have a program. And some of that's because we're not allowed to advertise. And, you know, we took that very serious, we still take it seriously, but in the beginning we also kept our disability down because we were afraid of being arrested. And now that the world's kind of changed at this point, we're still not able to kind of broadcast what we do out to the larger demographics of the Vermont communities. And so a lot of people still don't know that there's a medical program here in Vermont. And so some of our mission has been back to that social change and updating people about this alternative treatment or, you know, for symptom relief. We take it really serious. You know, the pandemic was obviously been a struggle for everybody. We kept our doors open the entire time. We didn't close our doors. We were able to serve our patients day in and day out. We had to make adjustments. We had to work with the Department of Public Safety to come up with a curbside program that was safe not only for our staff, but for the patients as well. And we have, we've been very proud of doing that over the past year and a half. I'm proud to say that my staff has remained COVID free as well. And so back to not only, you know, that balance over the years has been one of the harder challenges for us is how do we balance the patient care and understanding of the economic demands, you know, for being in the program that's put on the patient. And then how do we also face the challenges with our staff and understanding that they want benefits. They want a livable wage. They want to have a career path. And so those two things are tough to struggle in a small market. And so we've really tried to focus on both of those things over time because they both contribute to the success of the program in treating Vermonters. And back to being proud that we've done this over time. And, you know, back to, I think if you, you know, I know why staff takes pride in what they do in the conversations that they have with Vermonters every day. We also do a thing called meet your medicine maker. That's where we were precovent. We've been fight them into our facility and, you know, we roughly have anywhere from 50 to 60 patients come in. We teach them how to grow cannabis, how to dry it, how to cure it. We'd also teach them how to infuse edibles, you know, so back to people's budgets and understanding the constraints. We understand sometimes that the medicine is, yes, the cannabis plant, but also growing the plant itself can be very, very therapeutic for some people. So we've tried to educate them about that. And then for their budgets, like, hey, this is how you can make edibles at home. If this is your budget, here's a product you can buy. We offer a shake at a very reasonable price. It's lab tested. And then, hey, this is how you'd go home, make butter, and then make some medicines for yourself. And that will make your dollar go the longest. And so we really try to come at this from many different angles in serving the population here in Vermont. We also do guest lecture series. You know, we invite people to talk to patients and our staff, trying to constantly educate people. Obviously, the cannabis industry is fast-changing. You know, we like to kind of joke that it's like a dog year, seven years, you know, one year is equal to seven years. It's a lot of information. Everybody's trying to stay up with, you know, and that's where the program hasn't necessarily evolved as fast as the cannabis world is. And we're looking forward to that occurring in the coming years. Because I think that will be really influential in staying committed to the patients. And that is our goal in the future market, is that commitment. You know, we're willing to prioritize them when they come to the store. We're willing to have separate entrances for them as well to remain, you know, to give them privacy. If they want that privacy when they're coming to the dispensary, certain products for sure that we want to offer them. I know there's THC limits in the future market. You know, we do custom formulations for some people. I know there are a few, you know, children that are on our patient list that we make products specifically for where we will continue to do that as well. You know, the overall part of this is that we are committed to serving for monitors. I was born and raised here. I went to school here, elementary school, high school, college. This is my town. This is my state. And I understand the demands that are put on people. And to go full circle with that, you know, my original board, you know, there were patients on my original board. And they were driving our mission in the very beginning. They unfortunately passed away from their conditions, but they are still with us in spirit. And it's important that we are committed to that over the long haul here. So back to maybe taking a break. I don't know if there's questions for me here. I feel like, you know, I can probably talk for an hour about the program. I've been doing this for eight years. I'm passionate about it. I want to see it succeed. I want to make sure that we're investing money in it in the right places. I'm happy to designate a certain amount of inventory to the medical patients. I would suggest, though, if we do inventory that we go towards dried flower and biomass. And those are kind of the raw materials to say, all right, we'll set aside these raw materials. And from that, we can make the products that are in high demand. I'd be reluctant to potentially say, oh, here are these products. Make sure you have 10 of these and 20 of those. Well, you know, one thing we have learned in the cannabis market is there can be moments where there's high demand on certain products. And so just having some flexibility if we make those commitments would be important as a business operator. And I think that comes from, hey, make those commitments in the raw inventory. And then we can allocate that to our patients, you know, being able to judge the market and what's being demanded. So I don't know if there's some questions, you know. I certainly have a few to go ahead, Jim. Great earlier. This will just help me to understand, you know, people's expectations in terms of products that they might use now for treatment. And what their availability might be in the future. So, you know, THC limits, hopefully we'll be able to address that for the medical community if that won't be an issue. But what is the roughly the breakdown between people using flower and... A little more consistent at about 50%, 50-50. I'd say we're probably maybe into 55% flower right now. During COVID, flower demand went up, you know, and maybe crept into 58%, you know, like almost a 60-40. But we're starting to see that shift a little the other way right now. And so, you know, that's something that we monitor, you know, tried flower is tried and true. It is, you know, patients want their tried flower. We understand diversity is really important for the patient on that level as well. And the continued access of that, that has been something that we have struggled with. You know, we have a favorite strain right now. It's sourcush, you know, and it's whatever percentage of our sales. And, you know, so we try to grow more of it and then we take one strain away and then someone's like, well, where'd that strain go? You know, we're like, well, we're trying to grow more sourcush and sort of find that balance. That's been tricky. And, you know, I went to the state house three or four years ago and suggested that we start working with craft growers. We would be very open to making purchases from craft growers. I think that's where the future rep market is a boom for hopefully for the medical market. We could buy from craft growers, bring that diversity to flower into the medical market and, you know, give patients a wider selection of drug flower. Thank you. I want to follow up on my concentrate question and I want to say thank you. I read the letter they passed on today and really appreciate the thoughts in there and appreciate you being here today and then giving us all this background. So my question about concentrates is if there are THC limits and let's say a bank cartridge is popular for use with medical patients and those are at a higher percentage THC percentage. Is it realistic production wise to think that if you don't have that kind of inventory available, you know, a certain amount of cartridges that that's the kind of thing that the capacity is there to turn around and say, yeah, we can bang out a bunch of, you know, this or that kind of cartridge at the size that's the most effective cost for the patient. Yeah. Yeah. And so my interpretation of the bill right now X164 is that yes, there's there is a limit on THC concentrates, you know, that 60% but it's for solid concentrates. So I don't think that applies to vape pens, you know, and so I don't think there's going to be an issue there in manufacturing of vape pens. You know, vape pens are one of our most popular items at the dispensary. Again, that diversity of product with the vape pen. Hey, what tribe flower are we extracting and putting in there is really important. And so I don't think we're going to have any issues with meeting that demand. We've been doing vape pens now for over six years. We've licensed that technology from open, you know, and well, and we understand the kind of the efficiencies. There are certain strains though, FYI kind of that actually extract better than other strains. Like you can get a higher yield with plant A versus B potentially, you know, and sometimes, you know, we we and as we hopefully scale a little bit here. Some of our priority for plant A because it gives a higher yield when we extract it and making sure that that fits with, you know, the patient's taste and effect for symptom relief. So one last question. So that being said, I appreciate the clarification, the answer that I understand that and understand your answer. So if on the list of products that patients are using now, if you were to identify and say, boy, this is the one area where this could be this is this could be tight. You know, we've got to wait and see how much demand there is. But it definitely is something we wouldn't make for the adult use market. I'm curious. I mean, is there any area that worries you? That's a good question. And I haven't necessarily thought about it in that way, you know, in the sense, oh, we won't make that on that side. I think the bigger question that we've been looking at the THC limits and recognizing, you know, we have some products that have 80 milligrams of THC in them. You know, we recognize that patients want that. And for us, that will potentially turn into, well, we're going to be making other addables over here that are under a certain amount of THC. And they were going to be at scale. You know, we're going to be able to make hundreds of those in a day. Whereas over here, we're going to make an 80 milligram cookie, but we're going to make 50 of those. And that's that's a different kind of scale. And that's the commitment, though, that we want to make to the program to say that we will continue to make that cookie or that carmel or whatever it might be. Because we know that the medical patient wants that high dosage, especially people that are, you know, in chronic pain, going through chemotherapy, these high dosages are what they're asking for. And so we've, you know, we have over 150 SKUs at this point. We get, you know, I have a production team. They look for efficiencies. There are products that we make in a week that maybe are only 20 or 30 of them. It's not very efficient to make those products at all. But we make them. We've been making them all these years because we know there's certain people out there on the registry that want those products. And we want to serve, we want to provide that service. We see that as the service that we're providing. This isn't all the time about the bottom line. This is about serving for monitors. And if we can make that effort, as the program grows, you know, we will, we will, and we'll commit to, you know, serving patients. And that's the fact of custom formulations. There's still a lot of science to be determined here with cannabinoids, you know, and how they work best and what kind of formulas, you know, ratios are best. And I think they're probably you're going to end up being certain ratios that, you know, great that 80% of the medical population and then this ratio potentially works for 20% of the population. We're still going to make those ratios, though, that work for 20% of the population. So thanks, Shane. Thanks for the answers. Thanks, Jim. You mind if I? No, I'm fine. I probably have more than a few. Shane, thanks again. I've got, I've got a number of questions, but I just wanted to get a little bit more background if I could. So you are one of, I guess there's five, but they're really four license holders in medical. There are five total licenses in the state, and we hold two of those licenses. Okay. So you've got two of them. Can you tell me, and you don't have to get too specific, but is there a level of, and I'm in Arizona, and I've, I buy certain clients here as well. Is there a level of collaboration between and amongst you, or is it fairly competitive? Because I know what is here in Arizona, but I've advised clients. I said, listen, if you guys could just get along on some level, you could really accomplish a lot, but it never really happened. So I just don't know what the environment is like in Vermont. No, you know, yes, we're competitors, I would say that, but you know, the law basically first way originated said that we could barter with one another. We couldn't actually have a cash transfer. So you have, if I had, you know, 50 pre-rolls and you had whatever gummies, we could barter that. We lobbied to change that so we could just have transact straight old transactions between the dispensaries. I think that probably happened three or four years ago. And so right now we have a great, we have a great working relationship as businesses with one another. You know, we work with the group and Brandon, Grassroots, we actually purchased flour from them right now and purchased that flour because we want to diversify our strain selection. And so we're them on there. The group is my failure for my patients alliance. They purchased edibles from us right now. So we're selling them edibles, which is great. And then on the political front, yeah, we work together and we work through, you know, trade association. Sure. And I expect that part of it, but I guess where I was getting what I was trying to get at, so you have a pretty good idea of each other's inventory. When we call to ask, hey, what flour do you have? Like when I call Grassroots, hey, what inventory do you have for flour? They say, well, we have these strains. We have this much that that's as much as I know, you know, fire. Fair enough. And I mean, with Jim's questions, I think what would be most helpful to know. And again, if this is proprietary, you know, I understand if you want to disclose it, but you started mentioning your production team. I imagine you've got analytics or records on which products, you know, are the most popular like you're saying, you know, which are the least. That's what would probably be most helpful to the committee to determine, you know, when we're trying to define that baseline of products to protect the medical patients during the transition. Whatever analytics you have on that, or would be willing to share, then that would probably help us the most to determine that list that we're trying to create. Yeah, yeah, I don't appreciate that. And, you know, like I said, hey, flour is roughly 55% right now, maybe 50, you know, depending where we are in the trend. Vape pens are very popular. And then we have gummies, you know, we call them PDFs. They're more of a fruit base that are all natural. They're petafouille is the French name for them. And then we have micro meds. So we do a lot of actually micro dosing as well. And that's another product potentially, you know, for the patient base that that's not a wreck focus, but we have, you know, we have customers that want micro dosing. And so we have mints that are two and a half milligrams of THC, the PDFs are five milligrams. So back to giving the patient the ability to manage their dosages throughout the day. And, you know, and the overall big picture for Canvas for me, and one of the things that you talked to the State House about over the years is the different methods of consumption for Canvas are one of the greatest benefits of Canvas. You can smoke it, you can eat it, you can drink it. Those different methods are important. And transdermal patches, we do a transdermal patch. So I can get you some numbers. I'm not sure if we'll, you know, put the percentages of what sales they are, but I can definitely give you our top 10, you know, products. And, you know, but back to that raw inventory and securing that and saying, hey, we will dedicate this much of the raw inventory to products is I think the probably the best way to go. But open to that discussion to understand where everybody here is coming from. Right. And that was my follow up because I didn't know that that you mentioned. Maybe it's more efficient if we base this around the raw inventory. You would be able to extrapolate that from from your top 10. I think if we could get within a range, I don't think it'll, you know, be exact. But, you know, to start to talk about percentages, I think there's probably a, you know, safer model for us. So we were not, hey, my concern was, hey, we made all these products and we've kept them and then they have a shelf life and then they expired and we didn't sell them in time. Versus saying, hey, we've got biomass and dried flour and potentially oil would be the other part like, hey, we'll have this much oil on hand. And that way we then can make whichever addables we know are being bought and what kind of dosage is being bought to. I'm wondering just back to, you know, we've made suggestions for changes to the program. And, you know, my fingers are crossed that the state house acknowledges that the program needs an update and with those changes, what kind of demand it will come from those. We don't know that that's the hard part to forecast down the road. So how do we create some flexibility in recognizing we're going to change the program and we need the flexibility to see what's going to come from that. So happy to continue, you know, trying to understand what those products would be or back to the inventory. I think that's the safest route for as a business to go. Matt, I see you've got your hand up. Thanks for all that information. It's interesting. I didn't know part of it. I guess I come from the more of the prevention side of things and so just hearing you say that you make products for children. Could you say more about that and if you have concerns about that at all? For sure. That's where we work with parents. We work with the pediatrician or whoever the doctor might be in doing this. And this isn't, you know, something we do on our own. It's in consultation. You know, the parents, that's where caregiver comes into the picture. Caregiver is the person that comes into the dispensary. We don't allow anybody under 18 into the dispensary. So, hey, a parent signs up. The child signs up. You know, a parent signs the child up on the program. The parent signs up as a caregiver. We interact with the parent. That's our role. And then back to the custom formulations. That's usually occurring because they're working with their doctors. Their doctor is usually a cannabinoid specialist or understands it. We say, hey, this is what we can do or we've done this before. You know, and a lot of it is back to those ratios. The CBD to THC and understanding, you know, how much they want of that ratio and how many times a day will they be dosing, you know, and a lot of times it ends up either in a transform patch or in a tincture. You know, this isn't smokable product. And so we're very mindful of working with people under 18. Do you just want to follow up? Are you aware of any research that would guide the dosage and would indicate outcomes, et cetera, for children? Hi. I would have to reach out to Ada or, you know, our outreach director and see if we can get some of that for you. You know, Ada's usually involved in these conversations that she's the bridge to the hospitals. So I'm happy to look for that and pass that along to you. That'd be great. Thank you. If I could just add in for a second there, Shane. I think some of, besides some of the HIV patients early on in Vermont's medical program in Vermont and many of the medical programs in different states, childhood seizures, I'm not sure whether it's specifically epilepsy, but it's been, it's got the most human studies done on it. The efficacy is really spectacular. To the degree that countries like the UK that really have very limited, limited, limited medical cannabis will allow treatment of childhood seizure. So that's, I think, that was, I think it was Charlotte's, was the name of the organization that was initially working to make sure the parents could treat their kids. Anyway, I just thought I'd add that in. That's the, By then that's a great point, Jim, because in our first years we would go to meetings with probably about five parents, a couple doctors in the room, and everybody was trying to understand how this was working. And that was the Charlotte's Web and back to, you know, they're a Colorado-based company. They're still out there. And, you know, back to CBD to THC. A lot of that is that ratio. So, and that UK company is the GW Pharmaceutical, as it's Santa Vex, and then, I can't remember the other product that they put out, but those are based on cannabis therapies. Thanks, Matt. Thanks, Jane. I just, you could continue to indulge me while I go. Oh, please, no, I'm here. I'm done, you know, I'm happy to answer questions. Right. So, and again, just from what I know here in Arizona, so we're medical for a while, just this past year, then we transitioned with our ballot initiative, went REC, the existing medical license holders had a pretty powerful lobby, not surprisingly, all the REC is through medical dispensaries. And then we've been consistent with the rest of the nation in that, you know, then the REC sales kind of dominate and continue to grow. But it sounds like you're willing to help us develop this list to continue to protect the medical patients and make sure they continue to have access. Yeah, without a doubt. I mean, that's always been, you know, part of our concern is, you know, the REC market will be whatever amount, 10 times larger, you know. It will be easy. It would be, you know, easy for the medical program to be surpassed, you know. And so how do we create a program that's sustainable though? And that's the big picture here. How do we continue to provide services and products to Vermonters that want to utilize it as an alternative, you know. And my concern is, and it's a genuine, is a person that is sick, they've already got a lot of stress, anxiety. They've gotten potentially bad news from the hospital. They're navigating the hospital system. They're navigating the insurance system. And then potentially they have to go to a recreational store where, you know, not to, you know, it may compare it to a liquor store, you know. And we don't, I don't want that. That's not why I got into this industry. You know, we believe in the power of the plant and we want to make sure though, behind that are people that have knowledge and respect for the customer that's coming in and their position that they may be in with their healthcare and the stresses of that. So how do we, you know, basically hold their hands so they can go through this process and understand how to utilize cannabis without being overwhelmed with all the knowledge that it takes to actually utilize cannabis the right way because it does take knowledge to do that efficiently. And, you know, that. So one of my questions for you and one of the initiatives I think we voted on and this is my suggestion was just more data collection for BMR access. Are there things that you've asked the state or do you have any ideas, anything that would assist you as far as more data collection to help the medical program? Yeah, I think, you know, back to, hey, publishing certain data, you know, throughout the year, understanding the ups and downs of the program. You know, I looked at the Cindy Cedarwood model that was given to the control board, you know, and you can really see the downturn in patients coming onto the program in 2018. That's a reflection of home grow. That's something we supported actually, you know, back to people being to grow at home. But it was really detrimental to the program because the program didn't change at that time. For us, that would have been an opportune time to allow the program to remove some hurdles from signing up, you know. And there is, you know, an economy of scales here to running businesses and providing, you know, jobs. Like I said, that challenge of providing jobs and a future career path for people that want to come into the cannabis industry and then providing cannabis at a price that is affordable to everybody here in Vermont. And so those two things compete with each other. And it is a reflection of the size of the program and the hurdles to get into it. And so how do we remove some of those hurdles and allow the program to grow? Considering, you know, everybody that wants to grow cannabis in Vermont right now can grow cannabis. They're, you know, they're allowed to do that. Yeah, I was curious. When you were saying you were giving training sessions or seminars about home grows, what are you telling them about just pesticides or the fact that they're not going through testing and you are, what are the types of things that you're highlighting to them for the home growers? Oh, well, you know, that comes to pruning the plant, you know, making sure the plant doesn't get too, you know, especially if it's been a wet year, this has been a wet year in Vermont. And so back to making sure, first to start with making sure that you're pruning the plant so that it's got some air moving through it to avoid having to potentially apply anything to the plant. And then at that point, you know, there's nothing that's specific to cannabis at this point because it's still federally illegal. And so we work with the Ag Department. And so we have a Director of Cultivation that works directly with Kerry Chugare. And Kerry provides the information and that information basically centered around, hey, what's allowed to be on the hemp plant? And so the staff works directly with the Ag Department. For us personally, all of our staff that are in the cultivation team have licenses to apply pesticides. And so we try to provide the information that we've learned, you know, from the Ag Department, we try to pass that on to the patient that's growing at home. And, you know, but growing at home is a challenge for some, you know, some people don't have a green thumb. And so, you know, it's a difficult thing for some people. And, you know, back to, I think it's being talked about that a patient can grow at home and potentially go to the dispensary as well. You know, that way they don't have the stresses of potentially their crop failing, you know. And that's a real concern if you're growing outdoors versus indoors and that would go back to pesticides to hold a different matter if you're growing indoors versus outdoors where you're going to be applying on the plant. And that's, again, looking to the Ag Department and passing that information on to the patients. And are your facilities indoor or outdoor or both? We do both, actually. So we got indoor cultivation and we do an outdoor cultivation as well. You know, it's harvest season here, so we're busy doing that as well. And just, sorry, out of curiosity, what percentage is indoor? 90 probably percent, you know. A lot of our outdoor crop is really used for biomass. You know, the top colas, you know, select cuts from the plant would potentially go to dried flower. But back to cost savings, growing outdoors, using that biomass to produce less expensive oil to go into the product. Those are the innovations that we've been trying to do over the years to lower the costs for the patient. And so for us recognizing, you know, using indoor flower to make a product that you're extracting into oil doesn't make sense. So using your outdoor, it's a cheaper... Actually, you've worked with doctors and healthcare providers. I mean, what we've recommended is allowing the healthcare providers to determine the diseases and conditions that don't help qualify the patient. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, I'm really supportive of that. You know, back to we allow healthcare providers to make all the other decisions out there and, you know, on a person's personal care. I think that should be a conversation between the doctor and the patient. And having the state potentially make a list. You know, it served a purpose in the beginning. I think that purpose has been served. And now, you know, we're in a different age of cannabis consumption and usages and let the healthcare provider determine that. Increasing the possession limit to three plants in three ounces or whatever they don't use? Yeah, so how do we remove any of this and that? It's like now it's clear it's both. It's similar. There's no confusion. Everybody's abiding by the law and not confused by the law. Reciprocity with medical cards? You're in favor? Very much so. We think that will, you know, that's about the sustainability of the program. We are, you know, at Browderboro and we get people stopping all the time and say, hey, you know, they're at the door. They show their, you know, I'm a medical patient. Can I come in? You're like, no, you can't, you know. And so we're turning people away. It also happens with our Middlebury location. We get people driving over from New York thinking, you know, oh, I can just stop in. And, you know, we have to say no. So we see an opportunity there to serve more people and support the program. Removing or reducing the application fee? Our application fee? Well, it's the application fee to the registry, right, Meg? Yeah, that's correct. So the patient fee for our car? Patients, yeah. Yeah, we were supportive of, yes, I mean, and I think even with, hey, if a person has MS, they have Parkinson's, you know, like why are they having to renew each year, potentially? You know, this is the condition that is not going away. They're going to have this the rest of their lives. And so, yeah, we would be supportive of that. Okay. Those are the softballs. Here's the one that has become just a little bit of a lightning rod, but the definition of caregiver in the statute, you want to expand that as far as medical or physical caregivers so that it's not restricted to one to one. But because there's ambiguity about whether or not the caregiver is also typically a grower and then expanding the grower to allow... Well, we keep the... redefine the caregivers as a medical caregiver. But the question is, has come up, well, can a patient have more than one reward-providing product to them? Do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, I have a couple. I mean, I can see potentially two caregivers, a caregiver that's going to help the person make purchases at the dispensary. They're really a person that's assisting somebody that has potentially got a traumatic or terminal illness. They have a caregiver. My neighbor is going through that right now. I know the caregiver I see arrive every day, I'd say hello to her. She's there to assist this person in their day-to-day lives. And then I can see, hey, another caregiver to help grow cannabis for the patient. That makes sense. So I can see two caregivers, one being someone that's assisting the person with their day-to-day living and then another caregiver that is assigned to grow cannabis for that person. If we're getting into multiple growers for a patient, I would think potentially the craft license is where that person wants to go. You know, apply for a craft license. You get the license and you want to be a caregiver for somebody? Well, there it is. I don't think that craft license is going to be expensive. I think it's going to be reasonably priced. They can come into the market that way. And then they also could potentially expand their operations if they find something they want to pursue full-time and they're already in the system that way. They've already applied, they've got that. They can proceed forward. Thank you. Any other follow-up questions? Yeah, Sheen, could you touch a little bit on the delivery services that you offer? For sure, you know, and it's all the dispensary. So I wouldn't say it's just us, but we do, you know, we do delivery throughout the state of Vermont. And, you know, it's something we pride ourselves on that we will go to every corner of the state, you know. And sometimes that's not economically feasible to make a trip maybe up to, you know, Northeast Kingdom or up to the border here. And same down in Brattleboro, you know, we make trips into Bennington. And so we're committed to that, though. And that's what we signed up for, you know. And so it's our job then to manage those routes and make them efficient. And it's a service, though, that we provide happily and want to actually develop it more, you know. And some of that, for us, is back to product, you know. So, you know, ideally we would have an ability maybe to have a location that is a warehouse, you know. And great, that's the warehouse. That's where we can do deliveries at it to be more economical and serving for monitors. But it could potentially go up on other subjects. So, but we do provide delivery service. It's free over, I think, $150. You make $150 purchase. It's a free delivery. And if it's under $150, I believe it's $5 for the delivery, which I, you know, I think that is reasonable. And I know that doesn't cover our costs. So. Shane, I meant, Saad, kind of an uptick in, did you see an uptick in delivery since the pandemic? Yes. And then, but Curbside really was the formula that worked best in the end. That ability to come in, place the order online, you know. And we're fortunate in Brattleboro. We have a drive-through. And so it's a former bank, you know. So we have a bank drive-through and just that ability to process, you know, the transactions quickly and move through that keeps our patients safe and our staff safe. It worked well. And then up here in Burlington, the Curbside worked well. I don't know what to say other than the true convenience of just being able to pull up in your car, not have to get out of your car. That was a win for us and the patients. Yeah. I know we're running out of time and it was helpful. Sorry, Jim, did you have another question? You know, it really doesn't pertain to this committee. I'm going to pass. Okay. Feel free. Otherwise, I mean, it's helpful to know, I didn't realize it was by appointment only. Are there any other, any other kind of nuances or things like that that you've asked the state that we should know about just from adjusting the medical program? Yeah, you know, they might have been mentioned already in there, but IDs, you know, potentially right now if we want to hire someone, their ID gets designated to a series meds so they get designated to us, you know, versus the program, you know, and it gives that, you know, provides flexibility, potentially allows someone to get an ID, get into the program, you know, be able to work within the program. Maybe not even, don't have to designate a dispenser. You go through the process, have a card. So what we run into and what I'm getting to in a long belt way is like we have fall harvest right now. That's a real stress and demand on my staff to bring down certain number of plants, dry out, cure them. We would love to bring in temp workers. We can't do it because it doesn't make any sense to hire someone for just four weeks because it takes sometimes six weeks to get an ID, you know, and so how do we streamline that process so that this is even for future businesses that are coming in so that everybody can staff up and have flexibility in that staffing because it's one of the most important things, your staff, so. I imagine you've had some conversations with Carrie about this. I'm sure that they do have other agricultural industries. Yeah, yeah, some conversations with Carrie's, you know, we've had conversations with temp agencies as well, you know, and then we're starting to get into the federal part, though, and their comfort level coming into a federally legal thing, and, you know, and that's really, that's the pressure point, then, too. It's like, we can't go outside the system, you know, and so how does the system create something for the industry here in Vermont that works knowing that there are these pressures put on it? And those are the stresses that future entrepreneurs are going to feel, and they're real. And, you know, we're getting a regulated industry, you've got to go by the rules, and there's no way around it. And I'm sure you know, out in Arizona, it's trying to build in some flexibility into a regulated industry is difficult, so. Sure. Shayna? I'm sorry. Sorry. I think the chairman needs to know first. No, please, may I? Shayna, I was just going to ask if you could speak a little bit to the regulations of the medical, and then whether or not, you know, they're aligning with adult use, and just in terms of those pressures on your staff? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, thanks for the question, Meg. You know, how do we make sure that medical rules and rags are no more constrictive than the future recreational market rules for staff? And how do we create as much continuity between the two programs to eliminate confusion about those regulations? So everybody's playing by the same rule book. Here it is. We're all biting by the same rules. It's not, oh, it's different over here, and you do this over here. That's too confusing. It's too stressful, you know. And how do we remove some of the onerous things that are placed on staff right now? Because I have staff that, you know, make mistakes and, you know, they're just human mistakes, and they're afraid they're going to lose their job, and that's really stressful. And then we potentially, we do lose people that say, I just can't deal with this stress, you know. I want to be in the canvas industry, but some of these rules are just illogical, and they don't make sense, and I can't, you know, participate in that. And so how do we make the two programs congruent with one another? And one of those places for sure is an inventory. Let's not count medical plants and recreational plants. Let's have one system for counting the plants, and then when we harvest and cure and produce oil, let's designate, that's for medical, that's for recreational. And so when the kind of it's a whip, it's a work in progress, that's the place to start saying that should go here, that should go there. Because if you do it down at the plant level, it just adds a bunch of burdensome regulations that really don't achieve anything. Jim, go ahead. Shane, thanks for being here. So, you know, my primary concern is that the patients are not adversely impacted by the onset of adult use. And, you know, I appreciate the commitment to maintaining the kind of conduit of services and minimum products to ensure that the Vermont patients have access to their medicine during this transition and beyond. But when you think about things like reciprocity and changing the designated dispensary rule, that adds a degree of uncertainty to your clients, how your customers. And I'm wondering how you can kind of square those two where you're going to maintain minimum products or minimum supplies of products but then allow an unknown number of new customers into the dispensaries. Yeah, that's a great question. I think we'd start off back to percentages and saying, all right, this is the percentage we're going to expect an increase in demand. And so, if we're expecting that, how do we prepare for that and get that level of product and inventory ready for that? There'll be adjustments along the way. You know, some of this for us on the scaling part of this is coming into this future market. We want to have a new facility. We want to be able to utilize, yeah, a new HVAC system, new processes that we haven't been able to do in our own facility so that we can have larger yields. And so how do we become more efficient? How do we produce more with less so that we can project that, hey, we're going to see a 10% bump here and we need to be ready for that. And if that needs to be done and designated and saying, hey, Vermont patients potentially are served first. I don't know if that's allowed. I don't know if that's legal. But I'm ball for serving Vermonters first here. But I also think the rest of the city is really important. We have 13 million visitors to the state of Vermont that potentially are carrying medical cards. And we'd like the ability to service them because that helps sustain the program. The program right now is decreasing and has been for three years. We saw a little bump during COVID, but the program has been shrinking. And the Vicente Cedarburg model shows the program decreasing by 3% over the next three to four years. And so I would hope the reciprocity would actually continue to support the program and allow us to build on it. Thanks again, Shane. Very informative and helpful. And I think the committee probably needs a little time to digest some of this, including the inventory comment you just had at the end. But thank you again for your time. Very helpful. I appreciate it. Thanks for inviting me here. And if there's any follow-up, I'm happy to do that. And I do have some documents I'll probably forward in just a bullet point so you guys can read it and see it in print. And again, thank you for the time and thinking about our program. So thank you. All right. Thank you. Since we're out of time, can I just get a motion to adjourn? No. Three to week. Second. Okay. We are adjourned.