 Yeah, I think that oftentimes when there are people that actually have very, very authentic, genuine, mystical experiences and they sometimes wind up in psychiatric wards, I've been to some psychiatric wards and so forth and it's just been some interesting encounters where people will start describing, when somebody says how did you get here, they'll start describing what seems to be kind of a very euphoric or glorious experience and then it gets worse after that when the guys in the white straitjackets come. I think it was Stanislav Graff that was talking, I remember many, many years ago he was calling it spiritual emergence and he actually established the spiritual emergence network for those that were having these kind of mystical experiences and they felt very, very ungrounded, like the worlds were just tossed around. Oftentimes even when people have experiences with drugs, they'll be lifted up into the kind of expanded states of consciousness and awareness and it's quite glorious except they usually have to come back down to what we would call the common everyday perception of consciousness and awareness and that's a tough re-entry. It's kind of a shattering re-entry. I remember listening to one man from Australia who was reading Ram Dass' book Be Here Now and he got to a certain point of the book, a certain page and he just, it just gave his mind permission to let go and he just felt like he was just lifted up into this such a free, euphoric state of mind and he said, what occurred after that was he basically was in La La Land, he called it, for about two weeks and the people around him really did perceive that he was very dysfunctional, his parents and other people that he knew and then he describes a very hard re-entry where it was like the ego was like taunting him like a gremlin and wagging its tongue at him and it's quite a graphic description but that just kind of demonstrates that there's a big seeming gulf or gap between everyday human experience and this very heightened state of mind of being delocated and for me I have to say that I just had quite a few mystical experiences over the years and there was almost always a sense of disorientation associated with coming back from them to what I consider my everyday reception but then as I continued with the mind training of the course it just got more and more consistently expansive and there wasn't that coming down or re-entry, it was just more like almost like a helium balloon just kind of going up and up and up and up and periodically I would have different experiences where I was shifting and shifting and I was losing kind of the standard or the association with the old and opening to what was really feeling brand new and I would have experiences like one time I was sailing on a boat, a ferry over, I think I was heading over to the Soul Spring Island, I think it was up in the Pacific Northwest and I was in the front end of this ferry and they had one of these giant fog horns, I was up on the front deck at the very point of the ship like Kate and Leonardo and Titanic you know right in the very front and I was with a friend of mine Beverly and then it was kind of foggy and we were standing up there in front of the ship and then without warning the fog horn went off full blast it was probably maybe 25 feet behind us because we were right up in the top deck and I just noticed her body she seemed to jump maybe about six to eight inches off the ground and I just and I didn't I just observed like I could see this body go up and what seemed to be like a very sharp noise I mean sharp noises can't really scare you it's the interpretation it's always the interpretation in the mind that scares is where the fear is it's nothing that happens in form with the five senses so I just noticed her body go up and I looked over and saw it come down and then I was like oh look at that I mean it was again more of an observation like like that sharp loud noise I wasn't influenced I didn't flinch I didn't even move there was no reaction to it because I was just in the flow of presence and it was no different than anything else and then probably a few years after that I was working continued my work with the course and a woman who I've never met invited me to come to Cedar Point Sandusky, Ohio and go up there and she said oh come and my my children come and go on the roller coaster rise with me and do all the different things and it sounds like a lot of fun so I did I drove up there and met her and I had a great holy encounter and went on all these rides well some of the rides I would never when I was a kid I would never have gone on even I would just not gone I mean the body that day was flipped around upside down you know some of the new modern roller coasters and twirl around and this and this and this and all I was in the roller coaster just gone hmm this is really fun I wasn't queasy I wasn't dizzy I wasn't disoriented my training must be taken hold here because I am not reacting and responding to this to these roller coaster rides like I did I mean this is not at all like my experience of roller coasters so it was like ah it was a stabilization occurring in mind through the mind training and that was a progressive loosening from from what I was proceeding you know like lesson number two from the course I had given everything I see all the meaning it has for me that's simply removing the meaning that I was projecting onto the world and not getting dizzy then a couple years later after that I went to one of these IMAX theaters but it was one of these cinemas where you you walk in and they don't have seats it was not quite an IMAX it was called another thing they have bars you know you stand there and there's bars and you're supposed to like hold on to these bars because they're going to show you a film of like being on the back end of a of a like a ladder on a fire truck that's swerving around as you're going over the streets of San Francisco and over cliffs and it's all the cinematography and filming you know designed to make you very very disoriented and dizzy and that's why they have the bars there so you can grab hold as you're perceiving all this really nothing's shaking nothing's moving there's nothing at all there's no forces hitting you it's just all totally interpretation of the mind and I was in there for like 15 minutes and then when they finally stopped it I just was standing there not holding on to the bar just watching the movie and there's people falling down groping on me grabbing me all places and everybody else was like yeah it was just wild you know there was because it was like that was like the untrained mind I was kind of an example of interpretation of following those interpretations of the mind you really weren't going around any corners but yet everyone's like holding on to the pole you know to the bars and leaning and trying to stay up and leaning back and leaning against the bar and trying to hold on to the bar for stability if you had filmed that it would look really crazy it would look like a three stooges because it's like what are these people doing they are sick they are mentally sick but what was was the perceptions interpretations so progressively as you keep doing the mind training it's it's not those delocating experiences become less and less disorienting and become more and more natural progressively and I know that my work with the course started back in 1986 so with a lot of years of mind training that's like a quarter of a century ago and it's really the focus and the dedication and the devotion and and even though it can't be quite disorienting at times that's in the in the roadmap he talks about it in there like don't be shocked if it feels this way because here's what's coming but that's what I like about a roadmap that's what you want from a roadmap you know tell me whether some bumps in the road tell me whether some dips and some holes you know give me some clues because this seems like a very unnatural process but it's actually a natural process so I just have to you know give myself over to it and it's great when you have a roadmap from a good way show or somebody who's not speculating that's what I love about the course there's no speculation in it you know he's not maybe perhaps you might you know it's like all the way through you know this is not a mind that's undecided it's in mind that has been through the temptations of time and space and come through and now it's reaching back to kind of say here take my hand grab a hold of my pinky anything if it was like a rope grab a hold of the rope anywhere bottom middle just get a good grip and and rise with me you know that's really what it's what it's saying