 Question is from Finlay Ched. How many hours of cardio can you do each week and still see muscle gain? This is it, I like this question because there's definitely a lot, there's a lot of depends going on here, right? People here on the show a lot, lots of poopy divers. Let's talk about, let's talk about cardio. And it sounds like we're just, none of us are fans. It's all, it's just not the best. And I think a lot of that message is because in the 70s and 80s, it was what everyone did for exercise. Like nobody was really strength training or lifting weights except for the small knees group. And so we're trying to counter that message as it's definitely not the best form of exercise to be healthy, to be strong for longevity. There's a much better approach than doing cardio. That doesn't mean that cardio doesn't have incredible benefits. But the other reason why we also talk that way is it's also one of the, it's challenging when you're doing a lot of cardio and you also have a goal of wanting to build muscle because cardio in itself is catabolic and trying to build muscle would be anabolic. So it's really tough to ask your body to do two things at the same time. You can, if you're eating a sufficient amount of calories, this is possible. But at the end of the day, if you're doing tons of hours and hours of cardio, you're telling your body that to be efficient and to be efficient at running a cardio, it's not wanting to add a bunch of muscle. So there's a sweet spot for every single person and that's going to depend on each individual. Cardio can actually help you build muscle too. If the cardio that you're doing is optimizing your health, then it can actually help you build muscle. I remember experiencing this as a young lifter where I was allergic to cardio. I did zero because I at that point understood the basics, which was I need more calories than I burn. I want to build muscle. And so my idea was I'm going to lift weights and then burn no calories for the rest of the day. And God forbid I did any additional movement and definitely was not going to do cardio because I'm not going to burn those precious calories that my muscles need. That's what I believed. And I remember working with a trainer who was just incredible muscle development and strong. And I saw him doing occasional cardio, low intensity, but he'd get on the treadmill and walk uphill or he'd do an elliptical. I remember thinking, and I asked him, I said, man, you build a ton of muscle and you still do cardio. I can't imagine how much muscle you build if you didn't do cardio. And he's like, I build less. And I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, well, I goes, when I didn't do any cardio, it was unhealthy. I had zero cardiovascular endurance and it actually took away from my ability to work out. I couldn't do as many squats and I just didn't feel as healthy. So now I do it just to maintain and keep my health and it actually helps me build muscle. So I did the same thing and I noticed the same thing. So how many hours of cardio can you do each week and still see muscle gain? You can actually maximize muscle gain if the cardio you're doing is optimizing your health. If you're not training to maximize endurance, if you're not trained to maximize stamina, in other words, cardio isn't the focus of your workout. You're not trying to just get awesome at cardio, but you're doing it as a way to maintain your health. Same, same, by the way, this is the same thing for like, you know, stretching, like or yoga or that type of stuff. Can that take away from muscle gain? It can. Can it also contribute? Definitely, absolutely. So if you use cardio as a way to help you lift weights more effectively and to optimize your health, it will actually build more muscle. Well, I saw some significant muscle growth going through sprints with definite, like elongated rest periods in between, which, you know, a lot of people wouldn't really look at that as very cardiovascular, very anaerobic, but I mean, in terms of like me getting the benefits of that and using, you know, sprints to build muscle in my legs, definitely like was pretty apparent. Oh dude, you know, here's a funny thing. You ever hear of strength athletes who train with bodybuilders and then they finish the session like I can barely breathe. Super sats, high rep sats, you know, that's cardio. Exactly. That's a form of resistance training cardio. That's right. So if I was, if I were to program this where I want to do cardio and I also want to build muscle, it would look more like the 12th to 25 to 30 minute bouts. And it would be like what Justin said, it would be a more hit type of style where it would be, I would push really hard, then I would let my heart rate recover completely. I would push really hard, let my heart rate recover. You're gonna get the benefits of the cardio as far as strengthening your heart by exercising that way, which would then carry over into your lifting routine and you're not doing so high endurance for long bouts, which then is gonna tell your body to pare down muscle, it doesn't need. So if I were to program cardio and my main goal was still to be weight loss, I would do it, and I do this. This is how I would get ready for shows. I would eventually do cardio. I just wouldn't want to do a lot of it when I'm trying to build, right? I would do it more towards cuts. And then when I introduce it, it's the same way that I would introduce it to somebody who's got this question is 12 minute bouts have hit post workout first. That's how I started off for three days a week. And then it goes a four days a week. Then it goes a five days a week. Then 12 minutes turns into 15 minutes. 15 minutes turns into 20, then eventually 30. Man, you'll be in great cardiovascular shape. You'll mostly burn body fat by doing that. And as long as you're eating adequate calories, you still should be able to build muscle. But even with that, it depends. Like if you have the person who hit cardio is too much of a stress, walking on the treadmill for 20 minutes might be enough of a stress relief depending on how they do it that will actually contribute to muscle gain. The question, the answer was open. Adam opened it with it depends. It's totally true. This is an impossible question to answer definitively because it depends who I'm talking to. And for someone, the right answer may be the exact wrong answer for somebody else. But I think at the end of the day, this is kind of a general answer that I think can apply to most people. If your cardio is optimizing your health and the goal isn't to just become, gain tons of stamina and endurance, it's probably gonna benefit you and not take away, I would say, from muscle gain.