 One minute. Hey team. How are you guys? Hey, Mark Anthony? Good to see you guys. You too. Thirty seconds. Good evening. I Want to call this meeting of the Durham City Council to order at 7 o'clock p.m. On June the 1st, 2020 And I certainly want to welcome everyone here tonight. I want to thank those people who are listening and Watching how whatever form that might be tonight from home or wherever you are and welcome you to this Meeting of the Durham City Council. I want to thank our staff and our tech staff a public affairs staff and others for making it possible for us to broadcast the meeting in this way as We have our moment of silent meditation tonight And I'll ask you to join me in that moment that silent meditation in a moment. I Ask us all to remember George Floyd his family his friends All who loved him and to keep them in our hearts Please join me in a moment of silent meditation. Thank you And now I'll ask councilmember Reese if he'll lead us in the pledge to the flag Thank you, mr. Mayor I think I've got myself in muted now and good evening colleagues and members of the public are listening at home When I'll recite the pledge of allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you very much councilmember Madam clerk. Will you please call the roll? Mayor shul here mayor pro tem Johnson here councilmember Caballero here councilmember Freeman Councilmember Middleton Councilmember Reese here. Thank you Thank you, thank you madam clerk and now we will go to Announcements by members of the council Madam mayor pro tem thank you, mr. Mayor. I just wanted to say a few words tonight about the Experience that we're having this last week in our country I want to first express my solidarity with the family's friends and communities of George Floyd Brianna Taylor I'm an Arbery and all of the victims of police and racist vigilante violence across the United States I want to send my love to everyone who's been out in the streets over the last few days to honor their lives and to My fellow elected officials here in North Carolina and around the country who've joined their constituents in the streets including Three members of our city council as we've tried to mitigate the impacts of the COVID-19 pandemic and the economic crisis that it's caused The many other social ills that we face as a country have continued unabated including The epidemic of white supremacy that began with the colonization and founding of our country and continues today As a mother of two black boys my family and I face the consequences of this epidemic every day a few months ago I sent my 13 year old son to a neighbor's home to give them a misdelivered package and I waited on my front porch the whole time anxiously Waiting to see if he was going to make it home. Okay. I regularly see posts from neighbors on listservs reporting the presence of black people in their neighborhoods as if we don't have the right to exist on the street As a child in the 1980s, my mother warned my younger brother not to play with toy guns so the police wouldn't think he had a real gun and shoot him Decades later, the only thing that's really changed is that the ubiquity of phone cameras and live streaming technology has brought the reality of this experience to a new and broader audience Over the last few days police forces across the country have recklessly and needlessly escalated conflicts with demonstrators in Minneapolis, New York, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh And other cities and even shot and killed David McAddy and unarmed black resident in Louisville, Kentucky Police have responded to nonviolent demonstrations with chemical and projectile weapons. They've attacked journalists causing serious injuries that have been documented on video and film And have ironically caused these abuses to be reported on accurately, which is extremely rare Even more disturbingly right wing paramilitaries and provocateurs have traveled to many cities, including cities right here in North Carolina In order to start conflicts with police and manipulate this outpouring of resistance to police violence to satisfy their own political goals Many have pointed out the obvious difference in the way that police forces across the country have responded to this current wave of protests In contrast to the recent wave of armed right wing defiance of stay at home orders that were almost entirely left alone by law enforcement, even when they shut down the entire state legislature in Michigan Here in Durham, we're fortunate to have both elected and police leadership that value de-escalation and non-confrontational approaches to demonstrations. I want to appreciate the work of our police chief CJ Davis and her staff in avoiding needless conflicts with demonstrators over the last few days. I also want to appreciate the work of the many community leaders and organs and organizers and organizations who spent much of the last decade Doing the hard work of pushing a police reform agenda to this point. Without their work, we wouldn't have the leadership that we have today in the city. And as many of us remember The response to the protests of Jesus worked his death just over six years ago. We know how different things used to be. We're in a much better place today with our new police chief and with different leadership at our city. But I also want to caution us against feeling superior to other cities or the or acting like policing issues don't exist here too. Our city still spends A significant and growing amount of money on policing. We still have a significant racial disparity in traffic stops. We have use of force policies that don't follow this practices were preempted by the state from implementing transparent body camber policies. We don't have functional civilian oversight or review board with any real authority to enforce changes and practices. Again, that's an issue where we're preempted by the state of North Carolina. We've made a lot of progress here in Durham, but we still have a long way to go to get where we need to be. So there's important work to do here in Durham as there is around the country to continue to move toward a safer and healthier community for all of us. Just before the COVID pandemic hit we passed bylaws for Community Safety and Wellness Task Force and invited Durham County and the Durham School Board to join us in implementing this new board. Understandably COVID has delayed much of our work, but I'll be following up with our colleagues on the county commission and school board to make sure that this work can begin as soon as possible. I continue to support calls from community members to invest public money in community safety outside of policing as well as education. Healthcare, housing, recreation, economic inclusion and building a stronger and more inclusive democracy. I continue to be troubled by the amount of money that we spend on policing. That I know could be spent on more effective community based interventions to promote safety and wellness in Durham, but we have to build those systems. We have to create those interventions. And I've been a strong advocate for for changing the spending priorities in the past and I'll continue to advocate for different priorities in the future. The only way out is through. We won't solve these problems until we address systemic racism in all of our institutions, but especially in our criminal legal system. Until we do, black people will continue to suffer disproportionately from a system that values property, wealth, business and the maintenance of the status quo over black lives. This is a rough time for a lot of us. And so I also just wanted to take a moment to remind everyone to take care of yourself and take care of each other. I've been doing movement work for 20 years and I'm regularly in the streets with people who've been doing this work for 50 years or more. And I believe them when they say it's a marathon, not a sprint. Take some time for yourself and have some energy left to fight tomorrow and the next day and the next day for the better world that we all deserve. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you so much, Madam Mayor Pro Tem. Who else would like to speak during announcements? Council Member Middleton. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening colleagues and good evening all who are watching. I want to thank my colleague, Madam Mayor Pro Tem Johnson for saying some critically important things. I think we need to hear in Durham and around the nation this evening. I, Mr. Mayor, you've gabbled us in to session this evening while chaos is going on in our country tonight. Much of what's going on this evening and has been going on for the past week, Mr. Mayor, I believe is actually just unsettled business that America has had on its ledger since before its birth, since before its inception. Those matters are still rearing their head even today. So I want to firstly commend you and thank you, Mr. Mayor, on the leadership you provided for a number of mayors who signed a wonderful statement that I think captured the heart of our city. It wasn't surprised to me at all that the Mayor of Durham would be at the forefront of that effort. It was extremely proud, particularly given the dearth of leadership we have coming from the highest levels of our government. Sometimes we at the local level, it feels like we're on our own as mayors and council people and others. So I want to thank you for your leadership. I also want to commend likewise Chief Davis on their department on what I thought was a great job that they did this past weekend in maintaining a profile that was very low. They actually assisted a movement rather than hindered it. Non-confrontational, non-intimidating type presence as we're seeing other departments exhibit around the country. I do want to echo Mayor Pro Tem's admonishment not to get too cocky or to get too comfortable because we had pretty much event-free demonstration this weekend. There are rumors that some folk aren't too happy with the way things went this past weekend and they plan on trying to assert themselves in our city. And I just want to issue a call tonight to folk that I've worked with over the years, over the decades and allied with on work in this city. Whether we've agreed or not, philosophically and sometimes we've had differences in philosophy, never in the end result, but I think philosophically. I want to call on those that have done the work and who are lovers of this city, if you're going to be in the streets tonight, to keep our eyes open for those who don't really love us, who don't care about the Floyd family, who don't share our tears, but are here to co-opt and preempt us. This is Durham. We know the difference between a Confederate monument and a mom-and-pop store where we get milk and vegetables for our babies. We don't need to be told the difference between those two things. We understand it here in Durham. We understand the difference between a pharmacy and a symbol of oppression. And the fire has already been lit in Durham. The fire has been lit in our hearts. The fire has been lit in our spirits and our souls. The fire is already burning in Durham for equity and for justice. So I'm just imploring those of us that know Durham, those of us that love Durham, if we're out in the streets tonight, as we mourn, as we have this collective outpouring of grief and resolve to finish the unfinished business of the United States of America to make us be who we say we are. If you've got a little bit of energy, also to keep your eyes open for those who aren't down with us, who aren't down with the movement, keep an eye out for those who would seek to take advantage of our pain and take advantage of our tears this evening. This is Durham. This is the Bull City. So we know Bull, and we don't need anybody bringing any more Bull into the Bull City. So I'm calling on friends and allies tonight to keep your eyes open as we hit the streets. We continue to express solidarity with the name, all the names that the Mayor Pro Tem has called Ahmad Arbery, Breonna Taylor, and George Floyd, and to those countless names we will never know about because no cameras were present. We will finish the work of making us who we say we are as a country, and I think Durham is going to be ground zero for it. May God bless the Floyd family, God bless his memory, God bless Durham, Black Lives Matter. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you very much, Council Member. Would anyone else like to speak? Is there anyone else that would like to speak during announcements? I would, Mr. Mayor. Council Member Freeman. Thank you. I don't want to repeat what's been said, and I really appreciate all that's been said from Mayor Pro Tem and Council Member Middleton. I do want to uplift just how hard it is to kind of come face to face with this as I think someone gave me the term uninvited mental health trauma and being able to be amongst so many people in this city. I'm just so, I'm overwhelmed with the pride of how we've handled our own grief and our own hurt and our healing that's needed right now. I'm so grateful to the work that's been done over the years and I'll probably remain off the video because it's been, I'm just not fit for public consumption and I've been trying my best to not do this because I always do. And loss of life, any life is hard and loss at the hands of an officer who is supposed to protect his service is the hardest to swallow, especially, oh my gosh, and I don't want to keep going down this road. But I do want to say that it's important. It is really important, and I'm speaking specifically to black people in this city, that you do take time and you acknowledge the hurt, the harm, and the pain that you're feeling. There are no words. I can feel it in my bones. I can feel it all throughout my body. The trauma I'm carrying is, it's just in my DNA. And it is the reason I do what I do how I do it. And I want to be mindful of the fact that these issues around race and racism are with us, and we have to address them. We have to be willing to have those hard conversations, and we have to be willing to do more than that and moving towards the actions. I know that today on a call with the National Urban League and NAACP and other civil rights leaders, five years ago, a commission was pulled together federally to address this so that none of our states would have to go through this same type of angst and whether or not officers would be charged. And we're still at the same place of ground zero nationally. I'm grateful to the work that our officers are doing here in Durham. I'm grateful to Chief Davis. And I really want to just reiterate just how far we have to go. And that none of us are exempt from doing this work, but I really appreciate all that everyone is pulling, putting forward and trying to move us forward in this. And just want to thank you. Council Member, thank you so much. And I think we all understand anybody's need to be off camera some tonight under these circumstances. Council Member Reese. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm, as always, just amazed at my colleagues and the way that they can talk about these issues in the way that Marys, the deep personal connection they have to this work with the very deep policy knowledge that each of them brings. And I just want to thank the Mayor Pro Tem, Council Member Middleton and Council Member Freeman for expressing what we're all feeling tonight. Mr. Mayor, our country is in crisis tonight. Around the country, we have seen really an epidemic of police violence that has that we only know the slightest bit of because some folks happened to video recorded. That's certainly the case in the killing of George Floyd. Breonna Taylor is another victim of police violence. Ahmaud Aubrey was a victim of vigilante violence. But these these incidents have really shocked the conscience of our nation yet again. And have drawn our attention yet again to the epidemic of police violence that continues to plague these United States. And this is an epidemic that of course is the natural outgrowth of America's original sense of racism and white supremacy. Really, our original and still ongoing sense that insidiously seek to value black lives less than white ones as the result of a rampaging out of control flavor of capitalism that enlists police violence as a means to protect private property, all too often punishing small acts like attempted forgery with the death of those alleged to have committed. Finally, it's the end product of decades long legal product project to provide almost absolute immunity to law enforcement officers for some of the most heinous acts they perform in the line of duty. The solutions to ending this epidemic are clear. We all know them more accountability for police officers and law enforcement officers better use of force guidelines and more resources for community solutions that keep our community safe outside of the context of law enforcement. And I'm proud to say that this city council has been on the forefront of that work and we must redouble our efforts in the weeks and months to come. The people of this city demand it, they need it and they have to have it. For Mayor, this weekend here in Durham, we saw a day long protest in downtown Durham that did not feature some of the kinds of police provocation and overreaction that we saw in other cities with here in North Carolina and around the country. That response to protest was a testament on the one hand to the leadership of Durham's fantastic police chief CJ Davis. But perhaps just as importantly to the hard work of hundreds of persistent and passionate community leaders over a course of generations that made that kind of police leadership and the leadership that we've seen on the city council possible. And tonight, Mr Mayor, as Councilman Middleton alluded to, protesters are back in the streets of Durham, asking simply that America stop killing black folks and that our government at all levels take concrete action to make that promise a reality for every resident. Black lives matter, Mr Mayor, as you know as well as I do. If we want to live up to what that promise truly represents, we must have term to that work now. I look forward to reaching out on those issues in the days and weeks to come. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Thank you so much, Council Member. Council Member Caballero. Thank you, Mr Mayor. Good evening, everyone, my colleagues, city staff and everyone in the community who's joining us tonight. Thank you to all my colleagues for their remarks. I think we're all struggling right now. When we rang in 2020, and what seems like a lifetime ago, I know we never thought that two pandemics would collide in the manner that they have this year. One of our pandemics is new. Coronavirus has taken the life of over 100,000 U.S. Americans and many thousands across the globe. Coronavirus leaves us in a place of uncertainty. What our future brings is unclear in many ways, but it's a virus, something unpredictable, biological, and its design right now is beyond our control. The second pandemic, I want to talk about is structural racism. This pandemic is not beyond our control, is not biological, and it is not unpredictable. It has been constructed and renewed for over 400 years, and black folks have suffered its traumas while white folks have benefited. One of the latest and most public examples of racism in our country was George Floyd's murder right on the heel of Breonna Taylor and Ahmed Arbery, all lynched by police or white supremacists. Many of us have taken to the streets in protest and grief, and we have seen the response in cities across this country due to the militarization of the police. In Durham, we have tried to take a different approach, and while our work is imperfect and incomplete, when my daughter and I attended the protest here in Durham on Saturday, the police response was markedly different than what we have seen on social media and in the news. And I want to applaud Chief Davis for her diligent work. She's done a remarkable job changing the culture in Durham's police department. But I would be remiss if I did not also applaud and acknowledge the years of work of so many dedicated community members who on a daily basis remind us we must be ever vigilant of our past. I especially want to champion the work of so many black women who have dedicated their lives and labor and forced us to implement changes here in Durham around police violence. So many leaders have constantly shown us the way the path the way forward and I'm grateful for their sacrifices. I want to end on this note. Our work ahead will be continued will continue to be painful and hard. I will be listening to and taking the leap and black folks. I will continue to do work on my own racism as I know how deep and rampant anti blackness is rooted within the Latinx community. I will continue to teach my children to be anti racist. And I hope all of us will say the words black lives matter over and over again, like a prayer like a mantra, until those words are no longer necessary, because of the promise of justice and equity, because the promise of justice and equity has been delivered. Thank you. Thank you so much council member. Colleagues, those were fantastic, fantastic words and I'm so grateful to each of you for those powerful expressions. I will. I don't have anything to add except I do want to read the statement. The council member Middleton alluded to on Saturday midday I realized that one of the ways to try to fill the vacuum in leadership. In this country about the murder of George Floyd was to have local leadership. Talk about the murder of George Floyd, what it meant, and how was she respond. After this, said it to a couple of other mayors thought I might get a few mayors to sign on. And it took on a life of its own. We now have more than 80 mayors in North Carolina. Cities and towns who have signed on and more coming all the time. So I want to read the statement is very brief. North Carolina Mayor statement on the murder of George Floyd. As mayors of cities in North Carolina, we have come together to express our abhorrence of the horrific murder of George Floyd, an act of unspeakable violence, cold in humanity and racism. The photographic evidence of this act speaks for itself. Mr Floyd was suffocated to death by a Minneapolis police officer. He was waiting for his life as three other officers Nelter stood by and did nothing to help him, even as he called out, I can't breathe. As a society we cannot tolerate this kind of police violence rooted in systemic racism. As mayors we work closely with the police leadership on our cities and we know that they also will not tolerate this kind of police violence and racism within their forces. Not only harm innocent people, but they also deeply wrote trust in our police forces, despite the good work of so many officers every day. Officers who themselves support the racism and violence so evident the death of George Floyd. Our hearts go out to Mr Floyd and his family. We support Mayor Jacob Fry of Minneapolis and his call for justice and accountability. We expect a full and fair trial of police officers involved. We also support the rights of those who are peacefully protesting and honoring the memory of George Floyd and countless others that have been victims of systemic racism and police violence. Let's work together to ensure that protests remain peaceful and stay focused on building equitable in just cities for all in North Carolina. And we pledge to make every effort within our power to fight systemic racism within our police forces cities and this nation. And signed by mayors from Murphy to Manio. And we will. This has just been released on social media with more of these signatures and as more come in will continue to do that. So, again, thank you all so much for your words. They were very, very powerful, and we need to continue to do this work. The words are important and we know that we need to do the work goes along with it. So thank you so much, colleagues. We'll now move on to priority items. And we'll begin with the city manager. Thank you, Mr Mayor members of city council. Good evening. Mr Mayor, I want to reiterate so many of the words that you all have so eloquently said I think at this time. Political leadership local political leadership is what is going to get us through this terribly tragic place we find ourselves in today. And I want to thank you and all of the members of council for your willingness to speak out, but also trust. CJ Davis, the chief of police chief Davis and I were continuing to work very closely together as we've addressed the challenge but I don't want to take an ounce of the credit. She deserves the credit that has been put her way that she has over the last several years truly transformed many aspects of the Durham police department. Are we perfect? No, we have a ways to go. But we are along along the way of a path that I think is going to lead to a much better relationship and much better outcomes, particularly at times of crisis like this. So I think this is a time for local political leadership political statements, not administrative statements. So I don't I don't want to spend too much time on that. Also want to mention this evening, as some of you know I had a procedure today that actually limiting me to get a suit coat on this evening. So instead I looked for a short sleeve black shirt that I thought would be appropriate to to wear an acknowledgement of the, the, the darkness that is facing us right now, but also one that I'm hopeful that we will particularly in Durham find our way out of so thank you. Just have some very minor items this evening where on four of the agenda items we've added additional information that council had requested at the work session that those are my only priority items and thank you again for your support. And in particular your support achieve Davis. Thank you very much Mr manager. Madam attorney. Good evening Mr Mayor, Madam Mayor pretend members of city council. Before I tell you I don't have any priority items I want to say thank you so much for your words. It is incredibly edifying and encouraging to work for a governing council that has such political courage and such strong conviction about justice and equality in this country. I can tell you that my staff and I spend a lot of time kind of expressing our appreciation amongst one another and our pride in in our city. Both in the courageous leaders that are in the community, but also the courageous leaders that are on this council. So thank you so much for allowing us to serve. If there's anything the city attorney's office can do to help facilitate the work that you all are doing on this front. Please don't hesitate to ask us we are we're ready to go. And we have no priority items. Thank you. Thank you so much madam attorney. Madam clerk. Mr Mayor, City Council. I just wanted to thank you also for your words of courage and, and equity and to trust everyone in Durham to do the right thing. And I do have a priority item. It is for public comments to be heard and accepted. Public hearings tonight. There is an email box that's been created. And the email is public hearing dot comment at Durham NC dot gov. The P and the H and public hearing are capitalized and then there's a dot and then comment is capitalized with the C. If anyone would like to make comments after the meeting tonight for the next 72 hours, we will be accepting your comments. So that's all I have Mr Mayor. Madam clerk would you repeat the email again. Certainly it's public hearing dot comment at Durham NC dot gov. The P and the H and public hearing are capitalized. Then there's the dot and then the capital C and comment. So we will be accepting comments after the meeting tonight for 72 hours. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam clerk will now move to the consent agenda. The consent agenda is made up of items that the council has been working on previously. The consent agenda can be approved by a single vote of the council unless an item is pulled by a council member a member of the public in which case the item will be heard at the end of the meeting. Consent agenda item one approval of city council minutes item to participatory budgeting PB grant agreement with El Futuro incorporated item three interlocal agreement with Durham County for the sharing of sales tax revenue. Item four amend the FY 1920 budget internal service fund spending plan and other grant and capital project ordinances and amendments. I don't five loan commitment to development ventures ink for Commerce Street seniors apartments. Item six loan commitment to Durham Housing Authority Durham development ventures ink for Elizabeth Street apartments item seven contract amendment number one for the installation of federally funded U.S. Housing and Urban Development HUD signalized pedestrian improvements. Item eight Austin Avenue sidewalk project item nine interlocal agreement for mobile ticketing item 10 mobile ticketing system item 11 transit fare capping policy item 13 insurance plan FY 21 item 14 bid report April 2020. Item 15 cooperative group purchase contract seven set fan heavy duty fully customized pumpers for the Durham Fire Department. Item 16 contract will linear tree services LLC for the removal of trees and want to thank the administration and the linear tree services for the additional information on their hiring that was. Excellent to receive item 17 U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development HUD 2020 partnership initiative grant. General and those are the consent agenda items and I'll take a motion now for the approval of the consent agenda approval. And move about move by the mayor pro tem and seconded by Councilmember Middleton that we approve the consent agenda. Where you both I just wanted to make a comment. There were a couple of items on the agenda that I know committee community members mentioned not being able to get comments and on. And I just want to highlight it's the I think it's it's item two. Or I'm sorry. Was items to 27 and I know there was a storm water fee in the water fees and the participatory budgeting. I just want to note that the fact that we only had about four or five comments is definitely out of the ordinary. And so just noting that this process needs to be a little bit more fleshed out so we're figuring out how to reach more people or making sure that people who aren't online. Have access. And that that's just pretty much it I just want to make sure we're we're figuring out what it is that that's missing because four or five comments definitely seems really low. Thank you council member. And I do want to remind all council members that we have received those comments and were made available to us by the clerk and I appreciate it. Thank you council member. Thank you. Can I have a. So we have we have a motion in a second. Madam clerk. Will you please call the vote. Sure. Hi. Your program Johnson. Hi. Council Member Caballero. Hi. Council Member Freeman. Hi. Council Member Middleton. I vote yay. And council member Reese. Hi. Thank you. Thank you madam clerk. The eyes have it and the motion passes unanimously. Well now move to our general business agenda public hearings. Although we've had one public hearing tonight's public hearings are going to be more difficult. Technically. And I want to really thank the clerk and our technical staff for working so hard on this and. I think I've been remiss in previous meetings also and not thanking the clerk and the clerk staff they have been such a huge part of. Making the technology go here and. So madam clerk please. Please accept our appreciation. Our first item. Is. General business agenda public hearing FY 20 21 budget FY 20 to 21 to 26. Capital improvement program CIP. And we'll now hear from. I believe. Well I see I see Bertha Johnson miss Johnson. Good evening mayor members of council Bertha Johnson director of budget and management services this is a event. For us to have an opportunity to receive comments from the public on the fiscal year 2021 budget and capital improvement plan. I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you so much. Are there any questions by council members at this time. Thank you so much. And we'll now move to public comment. Madam clerk. Do we have public comment for this item. Mayor shul. We have. As far as I'm aware Nathaniel. Gertner and water management employee. Are signed up for the budget item. All right thank you so much. And so I'll. Is Mr Gertner available to speak to us madam clerk. Yes sir. I just muted him. Mr Gertner welcome. We're glad to have you and. You have is your camera working do you know or are you just calling in by phone. Just audio. Okay great. We're glad to have you and you have three minutes. Okay. Thank you very much. My name is Nathaniel Gertner. I live in Durham. Three of 70s Hammond street and I'm here to talk about. Police department budget. As part of this. The proposed budget. Believe we need to divest as a community and as a government from the institution of policing. This budget. Proposes 681 full-time positions for the police. Which is over 200 more than any other department. With a budget of 68 million, which is a third of our general fund. And I have to ask. What we're getting for this cost. I can't tell you a single incident in my neighborhood that required the response of armed people trained in lethal force. I can tell you that every day in my neighborhood I can see people who need housing and food and medical care and for someone in official capacity to reach out with these services. Each Wednesday I see cars lined up around the block for a local for church food pantry. And we fund the police at such a level rather than expanding public services as a poverty of our imagination of what government can be. If we cannot conceive of a city without substantial policing is because policing has become our default response to community issues. Police force feels stretched thin. It is because we ask the police to do too much reaching far into realms where someone with different training could do it better and more efficiently. And I'm sensitive to the fact that 681 jobs is a lot of jobs. But these are not the jobs we need people doing right now. There are better ways to put people to work to build our community rather than simply exerting control. Beyond the issue of this opportunity cost, there's a question of utility. When it is commonly accepted that the threatened to call the police on a black person is a threatened to death sentence, how can any of us in good conscience consider this a service that we can use? How can the service provide its purported goal of safety to the over 100,000 black citizens of this city? And how can I support a service that works for me but endangers my neighbor? In the past week we've seen dramatic demonstrations of how the police prioritize their own power over the interests of the populations they ostensibly serve. And of course we can pet ourselves in the back for relatively peaceful protests here in Durham. One doesn't have to go that far back in history to find incidents of abuse and undue violence committed by our police force. Individual and cultural changes are admirable but fragile and cannot be depended on when structural issues remain. We know that the police as an institution is built on violence. We know it promises safety for some and condemnation to an impoverished and abused criminal justice. And we hear about police reform but we have evidence that training programs have not worked lower incidents of police violence or racial bias. We have evidence that body cameras are ineffective at creating accountability and we can take away weapons but no weapon was needed to murder George Floyd. I encourage this council and the mayor to look at this time of mass unemployment economic crisis and see that maintaining the police budget is a disservice to our community. It must take the opportunity to refocus our resources and providing services to actually make all our people safer. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Gertner. We now have someone who's identified only as water management employee. Is that person available to the phone? How are you? Thank you. You have three minutes. I understand. I believe the city has misled its employees and their families by insinuating it'll need to tighten its belt for the hard times ahead by eradicating the merit pay increases for its city workers this year all while holding a $35.4 million surplus in the general fund. And when mayor raises would only cost the city $6.9 million from that fund still leaving the city with a $28 million surplus. Tom Bonfield sent out a letter to city employees and their family saying he appreciates our frontline workers and the hard work that they do but apparently not enough to give us a hard earned wage increases for putting our lives on the line and those of our families we return home to each day potentially infecting due to a presently rapidly growing infection rate throughout the state and country upon reopening. We don't need empty words of appreciation. We want to see our dedications to our residents rewarded. City workers received a mass printed paper letter with a printed signature from our city manager with no monetary value a letter that ended up in the trash by every underappreciated worker that read it and learned that their hard work for the year would once again go unnoticed all while the city furloughed parks and wreck houses. We want to make sure that our residents are safe during a time when they needed money the most amidst this pandemic. We want to drop the excuses and give city workers the raises we earned for keeping this city alive during a pandemic. We see that six more police officers were approved in February seven more being asked to be approved now while you ignore the people that keep sewage out of your homes and clean water supplied to your faucets and clean from debris. You say thank you to us while turning your back to us. Thank you. Thank you very much. Madam clerk, do we have any other speakers on this item? Mayor, that's all I can tell that we have. We have multiple attendees. But I can't tell what they're here to speak about. I have received one one chat from one of the attendees and they're going to leave an email. They're going to be writing us an email. And don't want to speak. So I believe that's all. Okay. Should I ask them if they want to speak to the budget? I see now that Danielle Purfoy wants to speak to the budget and says she has signed up. Okay. So can you contact Ms. Purfoy? She's one of the attendees. Okay. She's unmuted. Ms. Purfoy, are you with us? Here. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Welcome. And you have three minutes. Thank you. My name is Danielle Purfoy and I'm here as a representative of Durham beyond policing, a coalition of Durham based organizers who believe we can build a public safety system rooted in public resources and community accountability, not punishment and surveillance. Last year we came before you with a counter proposal to the public safety budget demanding that the council reject the public safety budget. And with a proposal for community-led safety and wellness task force to bring forth alternatives to policing that prioritized care through resources, professional, public health-based support, and community accountability and restorative justice practices. And we commend your support, those of you that supported us in that last year. But this year, in the middle of a pandemic that has killed over 100,000 people in this country and 944 people in this country. And with a $9 million budget shortfall, denials of city employee wage increases in the face of possible layoffs and many evictions pending the lift of the governor's stay, the current budget still allocates over $70 million to the police, a 5% increase to their budget. This is a profound failure of imagination. At this very moment, my comrades, your constituents are out in the streets in the middle of the pandemic fighting for another system that we know is possible that folks around the world are already building. We began that world as one where violence is not met with wrote fear-based decisions to punish. We began this year with emergency evacuations of public housing that had been so horrendously neglected that residents' health and safety was compromised. We began this year with hundreds of evictions every month. And we began this year with hundreds of people without additional access to shelter. And that was all pre-COVID-19. And my question is, what else needs to happen for us to prioritize serving people over punishing them? Mayor Schull, in the two years that I lived in your neighborhood, I can recall seeing police cars a total of two times and I work from home. So I see the streets there a lot. In the month that I've lived in East Durham, I've seen several a day. Just two weeks ago, I and others in our community witnessed the police raid the home of a black family for three hours. They threw a flash bomb in the house with children in it and made the family stand outside mostly without masks for those three hours. We have several eyewitnesses and video and photographic footage of that that we will share with the community, the family's consent. What I want to say is the bottom line, as other folks who have spoken before me have mentioned, as the folks who are rallying in the streets tonight have mentioned, is that something has to give. The situation in this country, the situation in the city is not going to get any better until we actually decide that what we need is to actually support our community and to prioritize their health and safety and well-being over punishing them, throwing them in jail and end a day during the public health during this pandemic. And so I respectfully, you know, advocate against this increase in the police budget in favor of reallocating resources that protect our community. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms. Purifoy. We have other attendees at the meeting. Is there any other attendee that would like to speak on the budget? If so, if you would like to put your, just put in the chat that you would like to speak and we'll make sure, even though you haven't signed up prior, that you're able to speak. Is there any other attendee that would like to be heard? I want to thank all those who spoke on this public hearing. And hearing no other speakers, I'm going to declare this public hearing closed. Thank you very much, Ms. Johnson. Colleagues, we've heard the comments on the budget and the capital improvement program. And of course, all of this will be coming for us and we will have all these comments and others that we've received an e-mail to be considering as we deliberate on our budget and capital improvement plan. So I want to thank all the speakers tonight. Our next item is item 22, 600 North Rocksboro. And I believe Mr. Others may be our, I see Mr. Young. Mr. Young, welcome. Good evening, Mr. Mayor and Council. Thank you. It's good to be here tonight. As you are well aware, we suspended public hearings on zoning annexation items following March 16th meeting due to concerns about coronavirus and having public hearings in a way that was safe and accessible to the public. And I want to take just a moment to appreciate you all, the clerk, the manager's office, technology solutions and public affairs who have worked closely with our excellent staff to come up with protocols and notice, changes and notice to make sure that these public hearings for these land use items that are going to commence tonight and go through your next regular meeting on March 16th and three special call meetings on June 10th, June 24th and July 1st are open and accessible to the public. So as you're aware that the clerk is received, I don't know if she's received any, but she's had the availability of folks to make comments, written comments in advance and she will provide you any notice that she receives in that regard. We also have provided notice for folks to, with the notice that went out with this item and all subsequent items, the opportunity to pre-register to speak at tonight's meeting and I know there are some folks that have pre-register to speak and an opportunity for folks to call in live at this meeting. So we do believe that all, so I can certify for the record that a required notice was provided, or affidavits to that effect on file with the planning department and we do believe that this item and all subsequent items will be fully compliant on law and fully accessible. So with that, I'll turn it over to Ms. Struthers to introduce the case. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Young and welcome, Ms. Struthers. Good evening. Good evening. I'm Emily Struthers from the planning department and thank you Pat for the introduction there. And as Pat stated, this item has been advertised in accordance with state and local law and affidavits of all notices are on file with the planning department. A request for a zoning map change has been received from Tim Cybers with four bath associates. This site is 0.707 acres and is located generally at 600 North Roxborough Street. The applicant has applied for a zoning map change from residential urban multifamily to residential urban multifamily with the development plan in order to allow for additional density. Key commitments include transit-related improvements of a bus pullout and bus shelter, curb extensions for parallel parking spaces, prominent framed entryways on the Roxborough Street frontage and contributions to Durham Public Schools and the City Affordable Housing Fund. Additional commitments are identified in the staff report and on the development plan. Two points of clarification within the staff report. The site plan for eight units referenced under item B site history has since been approved and since the initial writing of the staff report and photos taken, the building has been demolished. The Durham Planning Commission at their November 12, 2019 meeting recommended approval by a vote of nine to four for the proposed residential urban multifamily with the development plan zoning. Staff determines that this request is consistent with the comprehensive plan including the future land use map and other adopted ordinances and plans. Two motions are required for this application. The first is to adopt a consistency statement and the second is for the zoning ordinance and staff as always is available for any questions. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ms. Struthers. It's nice to see you again. We've missed you, even if it's only virtual. You as well. And I'm now, you've heard the report from staff. I'm now going to clay this public hearing open. And first I'm going to ask if there are any questions for Ms. Struthers by members of the council. Mr. McReese. Mr. McReese. And then I'll come to the middle. Thank you, sir. Sorry, I had to find my mute button. I thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, Ms. Struthers. It is great to see our planning staff again. We have missed you. Our Monday meeting has been a bereft of public hearings and your absence was duly noted. I'm glad to get us back to business. Notably a short night for y'all and we'll have a bunch of long afternoons and evenings coming up. Excuse me. With respect to this particular zoning change, I wonder if you could help me understand what changes have been made to the proposal before us since the matter was with the Planning Commission. I ask because Commissioner Miller suggested that we should only approve this rezoning if it includes a commitment to include prominent street-level entryways or other human-scale architectural features along with Roxborough Street. I wonder if you could help me understand what if anything the developer has done to address that concern. Thank you. Certainly. Thank you for the question. Under text commitment number four, I believe was provided following that Planning Commission meeting and that is that the building shall contain one or more prominent entryways on the Roxborough Street front end to create human-scale architectural features on the ground floor of the buildings and my understanding is that that has addressed that concern. Thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Council Member Reese. Council Member Middleton. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening. Good evening. Good to see you as well. Just a real quick question. How common is it for development plans not to specify whether units will be sale or rental? Thank you for that question. It is fairly common since the UDO does not have the ability to keep track of that or regulate that. So we wouldn't be able to enforce that commitment so much. So it's not common in my experience for that to be a commitment or to be identified on the development plan. Right. My question is an enforcement or... I'm just curious as to does that happen often when we get development plans where they don't... I don't remember seeing many where I didn't know whether or not they were going to be for sale or for rent, just for my own experience. I was just wondering how common that was. I haven't seen any myself that specify that. This one does not either. My understanding is that they intend to seek condos, but again, it's not specified specifically in the development plan. Yeah, Council Member... Oh, I'm sorry. Council Member Millison, if I might weigh in. Pat Young with Planning Department. State law preempts us from regulating what's called tenure, which is whether a structure or building is owner-occupied or rental-occupied. There have been a few instances where there was voluntary proper that identified that and that has been accepted and permissible, but it's not something we can require and enforce. So it's... I want to emphasize what Ms. Struthers said, that it's very... Because of that state law provision, it's very unusual that folks offer that. My understanding from conversations with the applicant, you can certainly... I would encourage you to discuss this with the applicant when they speak, is that these will be apartment-style buildings so that has a definition under our ordinance about architectural style and features, but that it may be condoed, which would allow it to be for sale. So again, you can pursue that with the applicant tonight. Thank you. Got you. Absolutely. Thank you very much. That's all I have, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member. Anyone else have questions for the staff at this time? All right. Then we will now move to hearing from the people that have signed up for the public hearing. Madam Clerk, I believe we have two people signed up. Tim Syvers and John Burns. Am I correct? Sir, I have Tim Syvers in attendance. I do not have John Burns. Okay. I see his name as having previously signed up. If Mr. Burns arrives digitally, we will of course get him in. Is there anyone else, Madam Clerk, signed up to speak on this item? No, sir. All right. And I'll just ask the attendees, if there are any attendees that would like to speak on this item and have not made yourself known, you can simply put your name in the chat box and we would love to hear from you. First though, there only is one speaker that we know of and that's Mr. Tim Syvers. Mr. Syvers, welcome. Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Syvers, you are representing the applicant. Is that correct? That is correct, sir. All right. Mr. Syvers, I'm going to give you five minutes. I'm not sure how much you'll need. And then we can see how much time you need. And also if there are other speakers on the other side of this. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Again, Tim Syvers with Horvath Associates, 16 consultant place Durham, North Carolina. Thank you to Pat and Emily and all the staff members that have been able to get these meetings virtually. Not only are you excited, I know the development community in general is excited to be able to have virtual meetings. So the first one here is a little nerve-wracking. So I'm glad to get the ball rolling on that item. You're making history, Mr. Syvers. Well, hopefully it's a good way, sir. The request in front of you tonight is a change in the rezoning from RUM, which allows the 12 units per acre to RUMD to maximize the 20 units per acre. Section 6.4.1 of the UDO allows this with the development plan in order to exceed that 12 unit per acre rate. The project is 0.7 acres. We have completed and the city has approved, as staff mentioned, a site plan to construct eight condominium units on the site, which is permitted by the UDO. This request will maximize the density for a total of up to 14 units an increase of six units. Planning Commission did approve this request with a vote of nine to four. Members who did vote against this project had some concerns with architectural commitments, as you have mentioned, tree coverage and affordable housing, and I'll respond to those moments in momentarily. Before that, I want to inform you that we did hold a voluntary neighborhood meeting on September 23rd, 2019 at the Durham Convention Center. We only had two neighbors in attendance, both of which were in support of the application. Following that meeting, we had three other adjacent property owners reach out and also provide their support of the project. The development plan that's part of the packet from staff does include commitments to bus stops, architectural design elements, landscape buffers, building and parking setbacks, 70% of previous area, a maximum of the 14 units, as well as access points onto Rocksboro Street and Mallard Avenue. The development plan also commits to providing curb extensions as requested by the bike and ped commission, as well as upgrading sidewalks and constructing brick bandings on portions of the sidewalks. Those improvements have actually already been included on the approved site plan that staff previously mentioned. These condominium units are anticipated to sell for approximately $300 to $350 a square foot, equating to sale prices in the $650,000, up to $1.25 million range. In response to the comments by two of the planning commission members, our team worked with staff to include a tax commitment that the design will contain prominent entry ways to create human scale architectural features. This is provided as tax commitment number four, as Councilman Reese and Emily had mentioned earlier. In addition to the current commitments, I'd like to adjust two commitments tonight. First, being prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy, provide a one-time $14,000 contribution to the City of Durham Dedicated Housing Fund. First, I should have mentioned prior to that, staff has seen these two additional commitments and reviewed them, so they are aware of these two commitments. As for the additional cost for the Dedicated Housing Fund, after working with the planning commission, we delayed our project a little bit to really research the affordable units for the location, as well as the selling price of these condo units. Our team did agree with Commissioner Johnson's statement that taxpayers' money should not be used to subsidize high-cost residential development. However, our team does understand that affordable units are needed in our city, and because this is a higher cost development, we did want to increase our donation to $1,000 per unit as compared to the standard $100 per unit rate. The second tax commitment I'd like to add tonight is to provide a minimum of the 5% tree coverage. Even though our project is exempt from tree coverage, we thought it was important to provide this tree coverage that was requested by the commissioner, Brian, as well as the adjacent property owner. Really, as mentioned earlier, I do really appreciate the ability to have these meetings virtually, and I ask that you vote in favor of the rezoning to add six additional units to this development. If there are any questions, the developer and I are available to answer them. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Cybers. Let me just appreciate the deputy city manager, Wanda Page, has indicated that if you are a person who's called in on telephone and is not a smartphone but you would like to speak, you can press star nine to raise your virtual hand. So I just want to say that. It seems pretty unlikely that that would be the case, but if it is the case, you can press star nine to raise your virtual hand. Let me ask, is there anyone here present here tonight, any attendees who would like to speak on this item? You can enter that in the chat box, or if you are attending and calling in on the phone, which is not a smartphone, you can enter star nine. All right, seeing none, I believe that is... There's the only person we have to speak to tonight is Mr. Cybers, and I'm going to ask council members if you have any questions or comments for the applicant. I'm sorry, I see none. So seeing none, I'm going to close this public hearing, and the matter is now before the council. We would need two motions to approve this item. The first would be a consistency statement. Is there a motion that we approve the consistency statement? Move to approve the consistency statement. Second. It's moved by Council Member Caballero, seconded by Mayor Pro Tem Johnson that we approve the consistency statement. Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll? Mayor Schull. Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Johnson. Aye. Council Member Caballero. Aye. Council Member Freeman. Aye. Council Member Middleton. Aye. Council Member Race. Aye. Thank you. Thank you. The ayes have it. The motion carries unanimously. Thank you, Mr. Cybers. Thank you very much, Mayor. And I want to appreciate the fact that $1,000 per unit is now the standard. Mr. Mayor, there's a second item for approval on that. Oh, you're sure it is. Thank you, Mr. Manager for that reminder. I think that my, I'll just say colleagues, I think that my, my ability to miss these items or part of them is even increased in the digital age. And so I appreciate the manager's help and all of you all for helping me keep our parliamentary procedure proceeding. So we have another motion necessary to adopt an ordinance and many of the UDO. Is there a motion? So moved. Second. Moved by Mayor Pro Tem. Seconded by Council Member Caballero. Council, Madam Clerk, please call the roll. Mayor Schuyl. Aye. Mayor Pro Tem Johnson. Aye. Council Member Caballero. Aye. Council Member Freeman. Aye. Council Member Middleton. Aye. Council Member Race. Aye. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Clerk. We'll now move to item 27 FY 2021 stormwater rates. We will be receiving a presentation on this, conducting a public hearing and then I, and then adopting the ordinance to change the fee schedule. So first, um, well here, I believe for Mr. Weaver. Mayor Schuyl, Mayor Pro Tem Johnson and Council call weekly public works. Um, this item proposes to raise stormwater race fiscal year FY 2021 effective July 1, 2020. Uh, the presentation you're referring to was received at the work session. Yes. We have two other items. One is to conduct a public hearing to receive public comment on the proposed FY 2021 rates. And the second one is to eventually hopefully adopt an ordinance to change the fee schedule revising stormwater rates effective July 1, 2020. The public hearing was advertised and Durham Herald son and we have an affidavits to attest to that for May 12 and May 19. Notices were also placed on the city of Durham website as well as at Durham city hall. And on the website, it was at multiple locations and all notices included an email address stormwaterrateddurhamnc.gov provide comments. Comments received to date will be read by staff and when you desire comments will be accepted. Legislature required us to go at least through June 2 to receive comments. And if your desire to go longer in that that is certainly as the clerk indicated they were accepting comments longer than that. This item does propose to raise stormwater rates. The rates for tier one would increase by 24 cents per month for tier two would be 50 cents per month and tier three would be $1 per month. The non-residential rate would increase by 50 cents per ERU which is 2400 square feet per impervious surface. The annual impact for rate repairs would be for tier one would be slightly less than $3 per year. For tier two would be $6 per year and tier three residential would be $12 per year. And the effect for commercial property would be at an additional $6 per ERU or 2400 square feet of impervious cover. The stormwater fund is a utility in that primary source of revenue is from stormwater fees. Rates for all tiers are middle of the pack that are proposed when compared with our benchmark cities as reflected in the presentation at the work session. The proposed increase supports capital funding for stormwater retrofits that comply with our Falls Lakes stage one reduction goals as well as to begin to address our pollutant load reduction requirements for third fork in northeast creeks. With that, that concludes my summary. We have worked with the finance department to develop these rates through the stormwater rate model and identifying the projects up through FY 2019. With that, I'm here to support you and with this public hearing. Thank you, Mr. Weibke. Very much appreciate it. Councilmember, you have heard Mr. Weibke's presentation and I'm now going to declare this public hearing open. And first I have any questions for Mr. Weibke members of the council. All right, thank you. And we did have a good chance to discuss this at our work session. Mr. Weibke, you said that you had received, we did, as Councilmember Freeman mentioned, we already received one item comment by e-mail previously. Did you also receive comment, Mr. Weibke, that we had not received that you would like to put in the record? I received a comment from Jennifer Buzin. And I can now if you like. Sure. Yes, that would be fine. Thank you. Thank you. I have a comment from Jennifer Buzin to Durham City Council as a resident of Durham and environmental engineer and former employee of the storm order and GIS division of the public works department. I urge city council to support the proposed FY 2021 storm order rates. The rate increases due mainly to efforts needed to comply with the falls lake stage one existing development requirements and to begin to address total maximum daily requirements to address, to be addressed by the rate increase and its associated water quality improvement measures have been in effect for a while. The city of Durham must make more progress toward addressing them at the problems the requirements target have not been sufficiently alleviated. Falls lake stage one existing development requirements became effective in January 2011. The third fork creek sediment DMDL was approved by EPA in 2005. The Northeast Creek bacteria TMDL was approved by EPA in 2003. The city of Durham's national pollution discharge elimination system or NPDES permit mandates that we take steps to address these requirements. The city's compliance with our permit will be audited in the future and we do not want to come up short. The city's storm order program has a strong reputation among North Carolina regulatory officials because this reputation often gains us a seat at level when new studies and regulations are being discussed. It is to our advantage to maintain that reputation. The water quality improvement measures which necessitate the rate increase will ensure that the city stays on the leading edge of the municipal storm order field. Thank you for consideration of these comments. Jennifer Buzzen, P.E. 3206, Courtland Drive, Durham, North Carolina. Thank you very much, Mr. Wipke. Is there anyone else who is an attendee on this call that would like to speak on this item? If so, please, you could simply put your name in the chat if so. And we'll just wait a minute for that. All right. I hear no other speakers, see no other speakers to this item. And I'm going to declare the public hearing closed. The matter is now before the council. We're being asked to adopt an ordinance to change the fee schedule. We're going to adopt an ordinance to change the fee schedule. We're revising storm water rates effective on July 1, 2020. And I have a motion to that effect. Is there a second? And moved by Mayor Pro Tem and seconded by Council Member Caballero that we adopt the ordinance to change the fee schedule. Madam clerk, will you please call the roll? Mayor Schull. Council Member Middleton. Aye. Council Member Reese. Aye. Thank you, Madam clerk. The motion passes five to one. Colleagues, at this time there are being no more businesses to come before this. Item 12 was skipped. What was it, Mr. Manager? That was the water and sewer rates general business. I'm sorry. I don't know. One more time I needed correction. And I'm grateful to you, Mr. Manager. I almost adjourned without my apologies. The general business agenda proposed water and sewer rates to. Yeah, so we'll hear from staff. Mr. Greeley, I'm sorry. I apologize. Almost didn't set any water and sewer rates this year. Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, members of Council, Don Greeley, water management. The item before you is the proposed water and sewer rates for FY 2021. We have a draft review of the water and sewer rates for the water and sewer rates for the water and sewer rates. We've done some prior discussion at the city county work session. Staff went and did some further analysis and explanations which we've attached with an additional information memo, which I hope you've had a chance to review. We've also had an opportunity to revise the rates since the decision for the paper performance this coming year. That equated to a reduction of 1.2 million. dollars in the proposed budget, we were able to then bring the proposed rates for a typical tier three customer from 2.9% down to 2.1%. The other major question that came out of council was the discussion about the positions that were proposed for the upcoming year. The department still considers them mission critical. The total value of those positions is 755,000, of which 120,000 are four vehicles. If those positions were not approved to go forward, then the rate would be able to be reduced from 2.1% to 1.7%. The difference for tier one customer between a 1.7% rate increase and a 2.1% rate increase for a tier one customer per month is 3 cents. With that, I'd like to open the floor for any questions by City Council. Thank you very much, Mr. Greeley. This is not a public hearing item, so colleagues, I'll ask if there are any questions for Mr. Greeley or any comments. We heard Mr. Greeley's presentation. Council Member Freeman, did you have some comments or questions? Just a comment. Just acknowledging that in this time, I'm a little concerned about raising the rates, and I can't a good conscience move forward at this time, but I just wanted to voice that out there. Thank you, Council Member. Madam Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, I'm a little confused about the order of these decisions. We're setting the rates before we approve the budget to authorize the additional positions. So if we were to decide not to authorize those additional positions would be then have another action to go back and lower the rate, I'm not sure. Until we have the discussion about the positions, I'm not sure what to do about this item and setting the rate. You're muted. If Council, you know, it's your call. This is in the past, we have typically handled the rate adjustments prior to adopting the budget, but you certainly could adopt this ordinance and the rate structure the same night that you adopt the budget. Ask Bertha just to be sure I'm thinking that right. I think we have done that in years past, although I must admit in the last several years I think we've done it prior to finalizing the budget. And part of that I think is just accumulating all of the budget documents so that they're correct instead of doing it kind of on the floor. Sure. I mean, at least in my tenure, this is the only year that we've had this sort of budget situation. And so I think I would feel more comfortable having the conversation about positions so that we have more information in order to set the correct rate. Colleagues any more comments on that? Mr. Manager, would you be comfortable if we held it and voted on it the same night as we did vote it on the budget? Well, Mr. Mayor, so the only the challenge will be the ability to calculate a new rate on the on the floor. I see what you're saying. Yeah. It is. It would really be next to impossible. I mean, you could certainly adopt the rate structure the way you have it and then not approve the positions. And then those monies would just be held with and some other reserve capacity for future years adjustments. But it would be very difficult to, you know, depending on which positions you would approve or not to just calculate that just, you know, I don't want to say on the fly but on the floor. Sure. Understood. I see Councilmember Middleton's hand. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And then I did I be sure? Okay. You recognize me. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I saw Charlie's hand as well. I was the one who asked a question about the mission, mission critical question. And then I appreciate the response, Don, it seems to me the answer was parsed along. It seems to me an answer about improved customer service and regulatory issues. And I guess in my mind the rubric that I was operating under at our last meeting was efficiency and value added are extremely important. But I don't know that I would put those under mission critical in this context. Now the regulatory issues, which I think there are three positions attached to us meeting our regulatory standards. Is that correct that there are three positions that will address regulatory issues? Yes. And that they equate roughly 241,000 of the 755,000, right? I guess for me, if the rate increases being driven by an anticipation that we're going to go ahead and just pass the additional FTEs, then I don't know how much punting to the night where we adopt is going to be helpful to the same night adopting the rate and the same night. It seems to me we're at a cross with what we need to make a decision as a counsel as to whether or not we're going to, you know, line by line if we find these positions justifiable if they are in fact the driving force or at least the major driving force behind the rate increase. I'm prepared to say tonight, I would be willing to consider the three regulatory related positions, but I would probably need some more coaxing in terms of the other, which undoubtedly add value and increase efficiency. I'm not doubting the wisdom of the positions at all. I'm going to be very clear about that. But I do think in our current climate, I'm averse to raising rates or taxes on folk like all of us are. And if that's what's driving this rate increase for the most part, those 11 positions, then I think I would place more priority on the three, which are connected to regulatory standards. But that's just my position. So I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Council Member. Council Member Ruiz? Sometimes it's hard to find that mute button when it's your turn. So what the rate has to be set before the start of the new fiscal year? Is that right? Ideally, yes. Okay. Is there something keeping us from addressing that at a special meeting after the adoption of the budget? We're going to adopt the budget somewhere in the neighborhood of, I think, two weeks before the end of the fiscal year. After we make a decision about the positions, there should be sufficient time to calculate the new rate. I don't know how long it would take a week, whatever it takes, and then come back to us for a special session just to pass the water and sewer rates. Typically, when we pass the rates, they are in effect July 1 with the first billing to occur in August. So it'd be a question of if we still want to push the, have the same kind of month in advance notice of when we actually adopt the rates, that affects how much revenue we do get and could actually drive the rates up a little bit if we try to recover them all in one year. We already have a special meeting scheduled for other purposes. Mr. Manager, I was going to mention that, Mr. Mayor, I think we've got two or three special meetings following the adoption of the budget. And both of those are prior to July 1, at least two of them. One of them is July 1, actually, which would still be all right. All right. Well, let me just then ask you, Mr. Manager. You can hear the council's interest in the situation with these positions. I don't think we have a consensus yet. I know we don't have a consensus yet, but there's more discussion wanted. For you and Mr. Greeley, what's your comfort level with adopting the budget as we usually do? And then after adopting that budget, when we'll have taken up the question of the positions, we would then come back and set the rates at a meeting between when we adopted the budget and the end of June. Yeah. Mr. Mayor, I think ideally, because we do have the budget reconciliation item on the work session for Thursday, acknowledging it'll be a long meeting in any event, but I think it's possible that we could reconcile that even Thursday. We may not have it rather than at the final budget adoption night on the 15th. So that would give us some time if we need longer than the 15th to calculate the rate, then we could possibly do that later in the month. If everyone's willing to reconcile those decisions Thursday, I think we can figure out a way to get it done. That would be great, Mr. Manager. And then that could just be a priority item from yours. Well, yes, I think the budget reconciliation item is already on the agenda. Okay. This would just be adding another component to that agenda item. Thank you a lot. All right, colleagues, that's the way we'll proceed. Mr. Greeley, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Manager. And we'll look forward to talking about that more. I can tell there's some differences of opinion, and that's a good thing. Mr. Mayor, may I ask one last question? I'm sorry, Mr. Mayor. Sure. Go ahead, Councilmember. Don, sorry. I'm not trying to hold you up. One last question. How many, if any, FT slots do you have in your org chart that are not currently filled? I think we have about 22 of their amounts. 22? Around 22 from? Go ahead. I think Don's frozen up. I understand. Don, could you say that again? We missed you. Sure. I'm sorry. It seems to be having some internet connection problems here. Somewhere around 22, 23 positions that are vacant and currently being advertised that we have not made offers to individuals. Okay. What's the longest, what's the longest amount of time one has been open? I would have to get that. We've closed some of the longer ones recently with offers, so I can provide that to you. Okay. Thanks much. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councilmember. Don, thank you so much, and we'll see you at the work session. Great. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. So Mr. Mayor, officially, I guess, can we refer that item back to the administration then? Sure. Yes, we won't know exactly which meeting to bring it forth, but we'll be bringing it forth here in the month. Yes, we can. Thank you. We'll refer that back to the administration and ask for their guidance. Thank you. Colleagues, this reminds me. The work session, I sent an email to everybody about this, but we have a big work session. So if there are items in which you have major questions, of course, as usual, bring them up and anything you feel the need to bring up to pull from the agenda on that day. And I'm urging everyone, if you have small questions or, you know, little items that you can get solved before the session, to please send emails to our staff. And so maybe we can avoid pulling as many items as we would normally, the normal proportion given this large agenda. So just urging everybody to try to do as much of that ahead of time as we can. Mr. Manager, have I finally finished all the items? Yes, sir. Okay. I'm sorry about that last one. There being no other business to come before this city council tonight, I'm going to declare the meeting adjourned at 828. And colleagues, I look forward to seeing you on Thursday. Everybody stay safe. A nice one. Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, everyone. Thanks. Good night.