 Trying to get back to the basics of great products power comes from sharing information Before we go to the episode here's a quick word from our sponsor cap chase Imagine that you could get access to the revenues you will generate in the next 12 months already today. What would it mean for you? Capchase helps fast-growing recurring revenue companies finance growth without taking on debt or dilution Whether you want to invest in growth or R&D cap chase turns your predictable revenue into growth capital today Capchase has helped founders unlock hundreds of millions in financing to fuel their growth and on average extend their runway by 8 months and Spared upwards of 16% dilution So go see how insanely easy it is by clicking the link in the show notes or go to cap chase comm slash slush to learn more Thanks, let's go to the episode Hello, hello, and welcome back to the soaked by slush podcast My name is William from that ball and with me in the studio today is a crowd. Yo, hi Isaac. Hi, William and camera And today hi. Hello also to the to the guest Roxanne Varza. Welcome to the soaked by slush podcast Thanks guys, great to be here super nice to to have you join pleasure Yeah, we usually start off with a short introduction on our guests. So do you want to tell the listeners and viewers who you are? Yeah, sure. So I am today the director of station F, which is the world's biggest startup campus based in Paris But you can probably hear that I did not grow up in France So I'm actually from the US and have been living out in Europe for the last 11 years And I'm just passionate about the ecosystem. So I've been involved in a lot of different Projects even outside of station F doing a little bit of investing scouting for a couple of funds supporting women in tech through a lot of different initiatives and In a past life also getting people to talk about failure. So I think those are pretty much where I stand How did you end up there? At station f in france where where exactly Paris in Paris Um, yeah, I don't know. It's like, uh, it's hard to explain because I've just always been in love with France And sometimes I just can't explain love, but I actually came out here to do a master's degree Feels like a lifetime ago And I fell in love with this ecosystem because I just felt there was so much to build here And so that's why I decided this day Yeah, it's not the the most common path being in an american in europe and leading the the start of campus Especially in france. So it's interesting interesting trajectory for sure But yeah, maybe just diving into the topic What do you think is the biggest difference between American and and european entrepreneurs? You know things evolve so much When I moved out here, I remember people were like you're from Palo Alto. You love startups You're going the wrong direction like turn around and go back where you came from Today that has changed a lot today. Actually, it's it's more of the opposite people reaching out to me from The u.s from silicon valley saying hey Things are not what they used to be have changed a lot. Paris looks incredible We can see that now people are building incredible companies there So how can we come so I feel actually, um, the mindset and the culture has changed dramatically so maybe 10 years ago we would have said like Entrepreneurs here are not ambitious enough or the investors are too risk averse That is definitely not the case today. So I don't know really what the difference is anymore. The gap has has closed Do you what do you think has happened within those 10 years? Is it is it mainly something? Going wrong in Palo Alto or or california and then something going right in Paris. What what's going on? What a what a sneaky question. Um Um Well, I think I think it's you know, I think it's a little bit of both if i'm perfectly honest I think a lot has gone right, uh in france and in paris so far And I also think it's not just paris when we're talking about innovation in in france Obviously, there's a lot of great stuff happening out of out of paris as well Um, but I think it's kind of been a collective effort from the government from the startup ecosystem um You know to really kind of address some of the pain points I think entrepreneurship was not top of mind for a young graduate when I first moved out here today I think you have over 50 probably over 70 of graduates that want to start or join startup companies I think you also have you know, you've done that government has done a lot to attract international talent make the visas more simple Help international investors kind of come and set up here So I think there's really a lot going on and then I think if you look at what's been going on in silicon valley I think the prices have been exploding. It's really Expensive to start a company. I think people have different attitudes and opinions on what's going on culturally Is it a place that people want to live? Given some of the things that they've been experiencing So I think you know now especially with covet that kind of make a lot of people readdress what they're doing We're seeing a huge shift and it's been very exciting to see Yeah, I know for sure we can see the same shift also in in finland in the past 10 years And I think one thing that comes up quite frequently is also that there are now much more role models in europe as well And the u.s had a strong culture of really cool companies Starting from the 70s from the 80s already and and in the europe or here in europe. It hasn't been the case In to the same extent at least so now there's like cool stories with spotify and supercell in finland and lots of different companies so It seems like europe is catching up in in that sense, but are there some things you know That you could transfer from the u.s still to the europe or to to europe that could be could be beneficial for the european ecosystem Yeah, well, I think you know, I think you actually hit it on the head I think we're starting now to have a bit of a mature ecosystem and a lot of the experience that we were lacking previously is actually now available Um, but I was actually talking with somebody who's actually relocated Back to france from the u.s Who said, you know, the one thing that we're still missing is that exit experience? In our ecosystem you have people uh in the u.s When especially in silicon valley, you know, he said, you know, I go to any party or any cafe And i'm surrounded by people who have you know sold their business ipo'd and here it's still relatively rare to come by Those profiles we can we can probably count them Across all of europe still on our hands and feet Can you is there such a thing as an american entrepreneurial ethos and the european entrepreneurial ethos has is seeped into a sort of collective Mindset or something Like is there is there a difference? I remember I read something before this episode and like one Major difference in terms of attitude mindset philosophy, whatever Is money, which that was interesting. Can you talk a bit more about that? Yeah, actually when you ask this question that is actually the only thing that really comes to mind Is the way that we talk about money and I don't know if it's european or if it's French because I think i'm just much more you know, I felt a little bit dirty even asking that question So it's probably An understanding that it's it's across europe But I think uh Yeah, the the way that entrepreneurs will talk about money in the u.s I mean it's just not a taboo topic to say i'm going after billions You know, I want to sell my company you just talk about it Which is like it's not even a topic really and here I have literally never come across an entrepreneur that has talked to me about Their business with that as maybe it is top of mind, but it's just never expressed as such So I just don't hear the topic of um money Unless we're talking about you know unicorns and the valuation, but it's not like I personally want to get rich That's just not something I hear. What's your hunch? Do you think that's a tangible benefit? What that we're not talking about it. No the opposite or I mean any either way either way around Do you think that affects something tangible? Um, it's really hard to say I mean I do have to say I mean I've been out here long enough that I'm just used to it and I find it normal that we don't talk about it So actually when people are talking to me about like, you know, I'm trying to get rich with my company. I'm a little bit like What's your motivation? Yeah, I think I I don't think that it's it's a really big game changer as long as because I really think you know When you're building a company you you're in it for the long run and I do find I wonder If money is really a long-term motivation. I think it really has to be something more than that Yeah, I think that mindset might actually set up Europe quite nicely for the next 20 years where we have to build Also companies that are going to have a big impact and solve Really big issues and it's very good to not be driven by by only money at that point I feel so maybe maybe the next wave of really cool unicorns come from Europe Because of that mindset. Who knows? But yeah, let's talk more about station f um, do you want to Tell the listeners a bit more what you do? What is station f and how did it become the the biggest start campus in the world? Yeah, sure. Um, so station f we have now been up and running for a little over four years So actually it still feels like we've just started. Um, but this is a So we call it a startup campus just because there's so many different components. Um Essentially if you want to think about it like a startup university, I think that's really the most applicable We have 30 different startup programs. Um, they cover a lot of different verticals development stages And they're run by different organizations. So one third by corporates one third by universities We have some top universities at station f And one third run by organizations like entrepreneur first for example has their their french program at station f And we have 1000 companies taking part in these programs at any given time And it's pretty selective we depending on the program we tend to select something like six to nine percent of companies that apply. So um pretty hard to get in and we also really want to show with station f I mean, this is really about helping people get up and running. So it's early stage companies that we're addressing primarily um, but also Diversity is really a key component. Um, and has been from day one So we have one third of our population that is coming from outside of france And actually a lot of people don't expect this but the countries that are the best represented are the us china South korea. I think it's pretty high up on the list as well. So it's not necessarily our european neighbors that are the best Represented. I don't really know why We also have a lot of female founders Um, so we actually have a few programs where it's over 45 percent Of the founders that are female, which is higher than industry average And we also have developed a program that's dedicated to people from underprivileged background So we have actually had people building companies that have formerly lived on the street. We have somebody who's been a formerly prisoner People who are refugees no higher education. So all kinds of backgrounds and It's just incredible to see what they're building the problems they're addressing how they're building their companies But the point of station f is really to simplify Building your company getting it up and running. So in addition to Campus where we have all our programs and resources We also have a housing extension for people who are seeking flexible and inexpensive housing That's amazing. Uh, what? What are some of the sort of Programs, I mean you talked a lot about like those support programs, but I mean, I guess this is a bigger question of How can you can you train entrepreneurship? Uh, that's a super question. Um I think I think you can teach some elements of it But I do also really think some of it is just character drive motive. I mean, those are things. How do you Teach that and also I think that people need to feel connected to the problem that they're addressing So a lot of the times when people are just building something Um to address an opportunity that they've seen I do question. How long are you going to be able to just hang on to this? You know, you really I think you really have to feel the pain that you're going after Yeah, no for sure. Uh, yeah, I've always been a bit skeptic Skeptical of the entrepreneurship programs at universities and stuff like that seems like it's more You need the more tangible, um Benefits or tangible experiences to actually learn what entrepreneurship is to to actually learn how to build something It's you can't read it from a book Or at least you can't only read it from a book. You also need to to apply it in the real world As opposed to maybe something Something um something more You know less tangible at least Exactly, it's actually just to to tag on to the back of that the programs are not really about teaching entrepreneurship It's much more we're selecting For majority of programs companies that have already been formed with a prototype with a team And we're essentially accelerating their business helping them find new customers helping them perfect their product So it's really about getting those resources in front of them. I think teaching entrepreneurship is probably one step earlier, um, which is something that you know, we may do someday Yeah, exactly What what is the benefit for a company? to join this kind of a community and and A centralized hub of of like-minded people What what does a company in this very early stage get out of it? I think you just said it yourself It's a big community. Um, I think it's you know, when you're starting a company We see all these headlines about unicorns and like mega rounds of funding That is definitely not the early days of building a company and people forget how hard it is Um, and so this is this is really about being surrounded by people who can help you With some of the big challenges and big questions you're going to be faced with in the early days So I think there's a lot of reasons that people come to station f I mean, I think it's a great place to work. You feel good when you're in the building We're very visible a lot of people come because it's super visible We get people from literally everywhere around the world. I we joke about it a lot But we actually have an example from Finland Um of people, you know, you want to meet somebody in your home country There's a good chance you'll meet them if you come to station f on campus So we actually had a company from Finland called the maya maya And they wanted to meet the mayor of Helsinki and they actually met them at station f by complete accident Now they're doing a great project at the city of Helsinki But I think those are the kind of examples But the real value of being at station f is actually all the entrepreneurs sitting around you That can answer your questions because they've already experienced that pain Can you take us on a bit of a Imaginary tour like what does it look like when you let's say come in from the front door? Like what is it like? How do how does the community happen? Well, man, I've never had to like describe. I just I won't do justice to it It's huge first of all people always tell me like I've seen the photos But it looks really big when you actually get here. Um, it's a it's a historical monument So it's actually a building that's a former freight station that was converted. Um, it's from the 1920s And so I think that's also kind of it. It's a great story because we have A famous french entrepreneur that initially created the building and it's now been repurposed and so I think it has a great entrepreneurial vibe But also I feel it respects france and reflects france very well In in the project and so people yeah when they're here, they actually feel they tell me a lot of time We don't feel like we're in france. We hear tons of different languages Um, you know, we have just recently set up a beta bar at the entrance So when you walk into the building you can actually see some of the different crazy products that people are working on at station f We have some massive event spaces. We have a huge cinema like auditorium And then we have the building cut into three different zones So the first zone you'll have a lot of events and services the second part of the building the middle zone That's where we actually have the 1 000 startups that are working And it's pretty hard to get into this part of the building because we have to let the companies work So actually people are always like why can't I visit? Why can't I go but actually, you know, it's not it's not a tourist site It's for people to work And then the last part of the building which is open to the public is a massive restaurant With like five kitchens two bars. I think they do like 3 000 to 10 000 meals per day So it's huge and that's just because we love food But people have also discovered entrepreneurship through the restaurant people have come being like I heard you have a big restaurant and they're like, oh, what is going on next door? So I think that's that's another really great aspect about about the space Yeah Is there any reason for a company not to join a community like station f4 or an incubator? Like what kind of companies would not benefit from it that much? Sure, so I actually think, you know, we are I hate to say it like this. We're asking people kindly to leave at You know about two or three years in because We first of all, I mean, we need to be here to help people get started And usually if your business is still up and running after two years That is a good sign and you should go and develop your business in a Space with your brand with your identity. It's it's probably less relevant to be in a in a shared space at that point Um, the other thing is I mean earlier that we're getting companies today that they're showing up at station I usually when they have a team You know a couple people they have a product a prototype If you're earlier than that coming to a place like station f2 work on a regular basis Probably makes less sense Um, the community definitely has value But there's different ways that you can get involved in the community and we'll be Actually launching some new new things for people to get involved in the community in the upcoming weeks But it doesn't make sense to actually show up every day and build your company on site at that stage Yeah, no, that makes sense. Uh I would yeah, it would be interesting to you. You mentioned more specific programs. You have like, um, the underprivileged program and the female founders Heavy programs. So curious, uh, how do you go about attracting? Uh people to the programs since there seems to be a bit of a chicken egg problem as well where You know, there's a certain stereotype or maybe not that much anymore, but there's like some Some characters and some people from some some backgrounds that maybe are more drawn into entrepreneurship And then there's kind of a Problem to to attract people who could be really really good at it But just kind of no way for for them to to get in Into places. So kind of what what what has been the? uh, the success story behind or or the Yeah, the most efficient ways to to attract these these kinds of other other groups of of entrepreneurs to to join Yeah, I would I mean you've hit it on the head. It's they they're not people that are necessarily on, you know, all the regular entrepreneurship platforms Um, they may not even know that they what they're doing could become a startup Um, which is why we have different selection criteria for them as well. They don't need to come with a team They don't need to come with a prototype. They just need to show us that they have done something with their idea so sometimes people will show up with like I have a Massive Facebook community around, you know, this idea that I have or this passion that I have What do I do with it? and so I think those are those are the kind of stories that We're we're often looking at in the fighters program But actually how do we get those people in the door in the first place? It's a lot about network and it's not your traditional startup. You see networks, of course It's actually there's a lot of organizations and associations and schools and you know those kind of organizations that we work with and then also the fighters themselves tend to have those networks So we work a lot with people who've gone through the program Um, who do you know that looks like you that, you know, wants to build a company this way has an idea You know, and I think those are they're often recommending some really great people as well What are some things you begin? by teaching Someone who someone who maybe has an idea but has no idea what it means to be An entrepreneur what that like how to even start because there is a hundred steps you can take as a first step I I suppose so how do you begin that? So I think up until now, um, the the fighters program has We've been doing it kind of in the workshops around kind of the basics really of You know, what is funding? What is setting up a company? What is hiring an employee? Um, and so I don't think it should come as a shock that you know, that's what we're teaching Just to make sure that people are really on the same page But what's incredible is that I don't think, you know, we need to teach, um I feel like today there's kind of like a playbook. Is it is it lean canvas or I don't know what it is but I do find that, uh, the fighters in some cases they they solve problems very differently And I think that's a benefit. I actually think that, you know, they're maybe addressing different problems And they should also feel free to address them in their own way. So we don't teach Everything and we do that intentionally That was going to be my last question. Can you teach it too much? Can you sort of, uh, Is there like a cookie cutter method that you can easily, uh, I think there is I think it's a problem. I think the day that we have all companies Building exactly the same way. Uh, we have a huge huge problem Yeah, you need room for creativity as well And and usually the biggest stories are the ones that come up from outside the box someone Someone created the first page in the playbook that everyone will be copying and and if no one is creating the playbook Then at some point the book will be pretty boring. Yeah Creativity is an interesting space. It's that space between like something doesn't exist But it there's a there's a there's an invisible space somewhere in the world where like there's there's like a Snug fit place for this one thing, but it just doesn't exist yet. It's really a crazy thing. It's the same with music movies books companies Very weird thing. How do people hit that vein? Yeah, very very very interesting. Anyway, that's not a question Okay, but let's let's formulate like this So, uh, if you have a more like the more established company route So let's say I have a company idea something like I want to create a I don't know genetically manipulated manipulated tree that can capture Carbon so it grows in one year and then it captures more Yeah, something like that and then uh, I want to I want to apply So what kind of fundamentals do you do does that company need to have in place? And then after we get in with this great business idea, what Uh, will you you know teach us or what will we start going through? Is it the systematic process or yeah? Um, I just found it funny that you picked this example because we have a company at station f They've come out of the entrepreneur first program Called neoplant and they actually develop plants that can metabolize more pollutants. So it's a very good example Yeah, people laughed at me when I said that sometime, but I think it's a good idea still I think it's a very good idea. Uh, so yeah, we um, it depends on the program So as I mentioned, there's 30 of them and each program has different criteria When they select but majority of them are looking for a full-time team a working prototype Maybe some proof of concept. So you have users customers. What have you? And then whatever industry or you know, specificity specificity they have for their program You like for example, we have uh, maybe an ai program you would have to respond to the ai criteria You know that kind of stuff But actually I can give you a bit more detail on how we select for the founders program Which is one of the two programs that my team runs. So we run fighters and founders Founders is for um, all sectors early stage only across like around the world So you could be from anywhere and apply to this But we are looking for the elements that I just mentioned We're also looking for usually technical experience within the team. Um, we're looking for a fast Growth so we don't want some I mean we have sometimes people who apply They launch the company, you know, five years ago and they're getting their first customer today We don't that's not something that we're super interested in We're looking at people with a fast mindset and actually we have a network Of over a hundred entrepreneurs around the work world that help us evaluate the idea So my team is actually filtering the basic criteria, but then these entrepreneurs are looking at is this an idea We've seen 20 times one time is there a huge need in the market You know that kind of stuff does this look like a credible team to solve the problem they're going after So that's the stuff that they're actually looking at and I think a lot of programs probably select Kind of in a similar way. I'd say e f is probably and the fighters program The only one the only program that you can show up without a real company without a real team And they help you get started Uh I guess and some this this is a 10 year old question, but but uh, I guess it's still relevant in some ways like The startup campuses Slush, maybe even I mean these are all kind of global litmus tests for startup capitalism even like this type of Uh the scene in a sense like I remember five years ago as we have another podcast we were talking about With this Finnish economist who said like yeah, I mean that we have slush and everything But is it really showing in the gdp? Is it really doing anything? It was an open question back then so Kind of giving you that same question now like station f is Kind of a litmus test. Well, how do you how do you see it happening? Do you see it like having an impact in the world and and uh and doing good? I mean, I wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case, right? So I think obviously your question kind of tilts out. How do we measure success for station f and Obviously, we follow some of the kpi's that the ecosystem follows even though they're not perfect indicators of success Um, you know, for example, how much funding is raised? What companies are getting acquired? How many companies are failing? How many jobs are created like these are things that we're obviously looking at and following but I do actually think um The real litmus test for me on the value is is really the fighters program in a way because I think we have a huge risk Um, especially in France. I don't know if this is the case across Europe But there has kind of been a a political discourse around start-up nation and trying to get a lot of people to create businesses And obviously that will boost the economy and I totally on board with all of that But a lot of people feel like this is addressed at a certain part of the population They feel like it's addressed at people with an mba people who've gone to business school engineering school What have you and that's not the majority of people So that is really why the fighters program is so important for us and also We need to solve real problems and there is also this Feeling or the sentiment when you talk to people outside of the startup community that we're building You know an app that doesn't really solve a real problem. And so I think that's why we need to bring in people Um From everywhere to build companies and to show them it's not impossible. You can do it Um, or you can join a company and I think that's that's the real litmus test for me Yeah, and it seems also like people from different backgrounds who've experienced some of those issues trying to be solved first hand And not just read about them should be more passionate passionate about those problems more capable of then actually going for For the solution. So it seems like it's a very overlooked demographic for solving solving actual problems. So Yeah, let's hope that program will be a huge huge success But on paper it sounds like a very good idea at least. Yeah No, that because that was a very very good way of phrasing an answer to that question Like what are do you have like a list of of of kpis or Just how what's your measure of success? What do you think is the purpose behind station f? Um, well, so I think like I mentioned, we're obviously following a lot of the indicators that the ecosystem follows So funding raised jobs created. Who's getting acquired exits? Um So I think like a lot of these indicators are also indicators of business success So that's what we look at as well But in reality the real indicator of success is just does your company generate revenue? Is it still alive and standing and does it create some kind of value that people want to purchase? Beyond that, however, I do think that station f Plays a role but needs to continue to play a role in guiding companies in terms of the values that they have And the the real value that they create for the society If we just have companies walking in the door because they generate revenue and only that criteria I consider it a failure because These are companies that we believe need to represent the future And if we're only looking at what makes money for our future, I think it's going to be a really dark place So that's why we are also looking at how do these companies respect? You know The environment how do they respect diversity? How do they tackle some of these real big problems? And that's why our selection criteria gets us six to nine percent of companies that apply Even though we're turning away sometimes some really Incredible businesses just because they don't fit into that that model that we're going after. Yeah I'm curious to start rounding up here But since you have a wide range of companies and you you know You see a lot of entrepreneurs and you also have the benefit of seeing As we spoke about different kinds of entrepreneurs And then you also have on the other hand you have like these Certain keywords that are associated with great entrepreneurship Entrepreneurs like grit and you know passion and Working hard and all that kind of stuff. Have you found some even surprising characteristics that define some of the great entrepreneurs you've seen come through the programs some that aren't maybe you know the stereotypical Things you would find on any blog about becoming an entrepreneur Um Surprising um, that's that's hard because lazy or something Actually probably um The really funny thing is that I mean often I feel like we want to generalize and we want to say like What is that one trait and I really feel like it's so much about individuals? It's really about your personal story. Like I think the the best example I can think of is um One of our entrepreneurs who's gone through the fighters program is a he's building a company called digital And they make anti-theft devices for cars, but he's a former car thief So who better to build this business? Um, he knows his topic inside out. He's got a hacker mindset And you know, he's somebody that when he walked in the door, we were all like, yes He's super credible for what he wants to do. But the problem that he's going to face is a lot of Um institutional investors won't be able to give him money, you know, he's gonna he's gonna struggle but he's actually You know beyond the idea that he has and the technical experience that he has He's a captivating person. You just want to be around him You just like he's and you want to work for him and that's that is something that I find Um more and more common in the entrepreneurs that we see succeed and he's actually doing very well He's managed to secure funding despite all the hurdles. So I think you know, it's that hacker that hacker kind of grit that people have and Um, and maybe it's just like some kind of charisma that just we call it passion But I think it's more than passion. I think it's actually being able to Kind of elude your passion so that people are just like, yes, I I share that with you, you know And they want to jump on board. Yeah, I think that's a great great answer And what a great way to start pitch. I used to be a car thief. So I should know So Yeah, that's uh, that's a bit of a different one. Yeah, definitely credible is a good word. Yeah, definitely Yeah You've invested with atomica also as an angel Do you feel your experience scouting and scanning through all all these startups and and working with them has helped you invest or Is it still as hard to, you know, find Good, uh startup companies to invest in or not necessarily to find the good companies but to pick them and and then, you know, actually Be a successful angel investor because it's uh by all accords very very hard Yeah, so actually I started with atomica. It was the first batch that they did 2018 and then now i'm doing with sequoia and i've also done a few personal investments and just It's early days for me as an investor. So I don't have any unicorns or anything like that to share But I do think that it's very different. Um, it's a very different interaction with the company I mean, you're really looking at having more skin in the game Entrepreneurs also often share a lot more I mean, you can really get personal about topics that I feel like sometimes in in some of the programs You only just hit the surface and so you can really dive deep and that's something I really am liking a lot um And so yeah, I think uh, I think station f has been kind of a really good Launch pad for it. I would say but I would I think that being invested investing in companies you go much much deeper And I'm finding it really fascinating Amazing that sounds really really nice and uh, thanks so so much for for joining the show and uh for all the the great insights Yeah, thank you. It's been a super pleasure. Yeah, thanks guys. It's been great And thanks to the all you guys at home listening in and And viewing what a great way to do an outro But yes, see you in the next next episode again and take care until then. Bye. Bye. Bye