 Consent agenda, I would like to remove the November 28th, and unless that's the only one I want to remove, is everybody else okay with the 8th, the 10th, the 3rd, the 14th, or December, and the 14th and 19th of November? I would make a motion to approve the consent agenda with the removal of the November 28th minutes. Is there a second? Second. All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay. We are five minutes ahead of time for Jeremy. Is he's going to call in? He's going to call us. Yes. Why don't we, until we hear from him, let's make the use of our time and go ahead to our FY24 budget planning session. We talked at one point about December 30th, but I didn't put it on the calendar. And you don't, things go when they're not on your calendar. Now I put something on that. So, are you available on the 30th at another time? I'm on vacation, family vacation from the 29th through the 8th. So, I'm afraid that my inclination is for the final planning session. I don't think you guys can meet without me. I mean, I just think it's too difficult. Now, what about, we don't have a meeting on January 2nd that we know of, right? There's nothing happening. We do not have a meeting on the 2nd. If we waited until then, we would, we would really have to button it up. I think we could do it. What's our public sheet? I didn't bring that timeline. I didn't mention, I didn't bring the timeline with me, but I mean, it doesn't go to the printers until, maybe I didn't bring it along. There are a number of things here. No signatures, one or signatures. No, these are, these are all. Yeah, warrant. Okay, all right. Great, thanks. So. So we could do it on the 2nd if we work diligently. Or you could do it on the week of the 6th. Well, that's what I'm, that's what I'm thinking is if we did it in the week. Here's the timeline. Okay, what's the. Folks, we're just trying to figure out how we complete the budget, which has to go to the printer. But. Final final budget approved by select board January 9th. Yeah. Okay. So. Monday. Right. So the second is I'm fine with the second knowing that it's done. It's not our, it's not a drop dead. So we have a little, a little. You want to do a seven or do you want to do earlier? I'd be up for earlier. Can anybody. I want to. Break half a bottle of bourbon. Or bring it with you. You want to do five o'clock. Make the best decision. You guys do five. Mark's gone anyway. Do I answer the words? Looks like. Hey Jeremy. Hi there. Perfect. Hang on. Okay. So we'll do a special. Would you say five o'clock? Yeah, special meeting on January 2nd. Okay. That's an easy one. Okay. And before we leave tonight, I have to put it on my calendar. Okay. Jeremy. We just set ourselves a budget meeting for Monday, January 2nd at 5 p.m. FII in case of care. Okay. Okay. Jeremy. We are here on. Your request that we make, we make, take some action related to mailing. Election ballots and Marshall that you speak to it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm hearing great. Okay. So yeah, just requesting that all registered. Unchallenged voters get mailed out for the town meeting. And that use. That's for all. All of elected positions in Calis. Yes. Everything that will be on the ballot because we're having. A town meeting in person this year. Yeah. There are offices that will happen to the floor as well. That would be similar to sure. And the ones that are elected on the ballot are. School stuff. Select for. Lister. Listers. Yeah. The school beyond the school ballot. But yeah. Lister. Select for town clerk. Um, And we, and we just approve mailing the Washington central supervisory union to mail. Yeah. Those ballots. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a motion? Uh, The plan would be to take me back on that and have. LHS who is going to be man school ballot. Also mail our ballots this year. I think last year we spent a little over $500. I think all in all is about $1,500. So there is a fee associated. It's not free. Uh, because it's a local election. I'll statewide. It's not free. So. So the tax pay by the secretary. Local elections are paid by. If we want to fail. So Jeremy. The supervisory union would include our balance with their mailing. And we would just pay. The difference. We pay our care. Yeah. Whatever that was. Uh, it'll be just the one. You know. and they'll be just the two ballots in there. Okay, two ballots. One for the school, one for the town ballot. So is there a motion to mail the town's election ballot? Yeah, a motion to mail, that's really what it is, mailing the election ballots. So moved. To all, I would just kind of just move to all registered unchallenged, which will help us avoid another 150 ballots that would go out and just get returned. Right, thank you. I'll add that to my motion. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or discussions? All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Jeremy. Are you staying? Yes, I'm staying. Are you staying? Well, I'm going to call in. I really appreciate it. I'm still asking my professional Uber driver for my teenager, so it's very appreciated to allow me to participate and still take care of my responsibilities as a chair and take out. Well, we'll be there in a little bit, so we'll be there. Well, we're glad you joined us. Thank you. No problem, Jeremy. Have a great rest of your night. The next thing on my phone is Curtis Pondam presentation. So somebody's here and there's two boys to take the lead. Do you want to join us up here, Jeff? Tucker, those two boys. Jeff Tucker, those two boys and King. Hi, Jeff. Hi, I'm sorry. Good, how are you? Good, Jeff. Good, thank you. Jeff, can you give me a little rest and stuff? Yes, my name is Jeffrey Tucker. I serve as an engineer for the engineering firm of Du Bois and King, and I'm here to give the board and the community a brief update on the status of the Curtis Pondam design. Great, thank you. You're welcome. Again, I was asked the very brief, so I'm going to go through this with you, Split, and then obviously questions letting you know. As D&K has been retained through the town and the Curtis Pond Association to prepare big-rating construction documents to repair the dam, we are largely completing that process as a plan. We've started a lot of summer. We've had a number of meetings. We've been out there and met with the public and such at the dam site and the engineers' point. Jeff, think of just a little of the people behind you. I'm sorry. Hi, everybody. May I stand if that's OK? Yeah, do whatever you want. Please, just remember that we especially need to be able to do this. I can project well from both sides. Great, thank you. If that's OK. So we are nearing completion of the updated design and the permit. That's basically what we've been pulled on to do. The status of the design component itself is right around the 95% complete. We are putting the finishing touches on some of the design elements and working with the dam safety engineer, Vermont State Dam Safety Engineer. The town submitted the permit application last July with the understanding that the final technical documents would be submitted about this time. And so that is all under way. There's been no issues, no concerns, and it's come together largely as we anticipated it would. For folks just with just to refresh memories, the existing dam is to remain in place. We're going to be constructing a new concrete wall on the upstream side of the dam. And that will be designed to carry a load of severe storms. So even if the existing dam was to wash away to some extent, the new wall would hold the pond in place. So we don't lose the water. We don't have a safety, public safety issue. So the water level remains the same and there's no changes there. Is the existing dam still going to function so that the water runs through it? Yes, the little bridge where the water flows underneath and then spills out, that it will be widened a little bit. So we may need another little bridge to go across that. But water is still going to convey from the pond and upstream through a, we call it a sluiceway, and then spill over the front of the dam as it does now. So the stone walls on the downstream again and all of that stays. We expect to have a grass cover in the existing dam when everything is done. It's going to be leveled out a little bit right now. It's some undulations and it just changes to that over time. But yeah, a temporary cofferdam will be placed in the pond just upstream of the dam, 100 feet or so. And that area will be watered during construction and we will be holding back the pond. That's an inflatable cofferdam. Yes. Sits on the bottom of the pond, rests there, so it's a pretty low, low impact. You still have a little water? Yeah, yeah. Comes in all folded up with a giant energy tube. We lay it out and pump it full of water right from the pond. Fills up, does a wonderful job holding the pond in place. So that's the basics of the status of the design and of the permits. There are a handful of them. As I've already mentioned, the Vermont Dam Safety permit has already been submitted this earlier in the summer. We've received official word from the State of Vermont and a bunch of other permits. One of them is the Vermont Wetlands permit. Did you say the Dam Safety permit has already been issued? It's been submitted. The application's been submitted. So in other words, the permit has been requested. Right, the application has been filed. It's been filed, yes. Jointly by the town and the Recurrence Association. Right, right. But when you submit a permit application, you're waiting for approval, right? That's correct. Yeah, that's what I wanted to clarify. That was when I was getting this, yeah. We received an official correspondence from the State of Vermont the other day that a Vermont Wetlands permit is not required. There are four other permits that are, and I've laid those out, if you'd like. Those sort of already have it. And the reason why it's not required is, if you have an extra. The reason a Wetlands permit is not required is because it would be not due water behind, beyond the Cotter Dam. A little bit of that, but also where we are impacting, it's small and it's within the allowed use of the repair of an existing structure. That was the primary, you know, which was good to affirm that, important to affirm that. So we do have four other permits. Army Corp engineers, rare threatened endangered species, shoreland and then conditional use, and then coordination with SHPO. I have paper copies of that. I understand they've not yet been worn. So by understanding if the board cannot act on them this evening, if the board's concurrence, or the chair's concurrence, I'd like to, you know, deliver these perhaps to a representative from Curtis Punn Association, and then she can coordinate and get them ready for your next meeting. That's okay. Yes, our next meeting is January 9th. That's enough time? Yes, ma'am. We're all ready to go and ready for it for signature. And it's all, you said there's Army Corp, rare threatened endangered shoreland, conditional use, and what's this historic preservation? So we need to be letting SHPO, my Historic Preservation Office, aware of. That's a- Oh, there's no permit required. No, it's a condition of the Army Corp permit. So we've teed that up and we'll be advancing that here in the coming days to a week or so and letting them know. We couldn't have gone too far earlier because they need to know exactly what's going on and now that the design is large, so it's completely clear what's going on. Okay? Question three? So, question is the, so you've had kind of, since the initial application was filed, do I understand you're saying you've had conversations with the engineer at Dam Safety to discuss the design? Yes. And what are those conversations indicated? That A, they're aware of and they concur with what we're going to be proposing, that they need to get our final and official set of drawings and specifications for them to process and issue the permit. And those final drawings, although you submitted with, we have in our materials a whole bunch of engineering drawings. Those are 95%, they're not quite done. That's correct. And I say 100% we want to meet with the Vermont Dam Safety Engineer. I would like to meet with him, go through everything. And, but I wanted to meet with the town first as the owner, make sure that there's... We're not the owner. We're not the owner yet. I'm sorry, I misspoke. So I wanted to meet with the town and affirm where we are at and then from there my intent is to reach out to the Dam Safety Engineer and pull everything together, if you will, and get final concurrence, then we'll issue stamped or 100% plans. And the design that you have, I remember we talked when there was a meeting at the dam. There was some discussion of putting stone, sort of a stone face on the very upper part of the concrete dam on the upstream side so that it would look like it looks now like a rock dam. Is that included or not in your design? It will be in our final, going 95 to 100 is to show those in there. Yes, that's our intent. It's the exposed portion of that new wall would have some stone lining on it. So that would match with the current? Yes, exactly. Yep, we may even use some of those stones that are there to move them on the concrete. What's the projected timeline to start? Well, that's a function of, I think, final concurrence from the town, from the association and funding in place to do that. So we'll be prepared to go in 2023 if that's the pleasure of people making decisions on this. Who will be doing the actual work? I would expect that, we'll say the town, we'll be bidding the project to qualified contractors. So you're gonna do an RFP? Yes. And there's, so the one that's been out there is just one possible contractor, right? Absolutely, and we would certainly recommend he's included in that process. Okay, so you have somebody already but you're gonna do a new RFP? Well, we'll seek concurrence from the town on that process, you know, if normally most communities will be, you know, we get our projects out, so I'm assuming that's the, but we'll affirm that. What does the engineer say? What is the construction? What is your understanding? It's the ideal time to do the construction. Of the years, of the season? Right, our recommendation will be to begin construction on around early August. So I could see us in the middle of July, this is just the generalized time. So we install the coffee dam out there and then we dewater from the coffee dam down to the existing dam, again, holding the rest of the pond in place. And, you know, the estimates is about three months worth of construction duration. We get in and make the improvements and wrap everything up, clean up and pull back out. So I'll certainly be recommending, you know, to start that in the middle of July, to minimize. Would the, would any of the entities to your knowledge who would bid or do the construction, would they be bonded and have insurance? Yes, and we would have a requirement of that in our construction documents, yes. And are you bonded and have insurance? We have engineering firms, professional services firms, have professional liability insurance. I don't have construction related bonding. Just so I can make a note in the minutes, the contractors will be bonded and insured. We will be requiring that. Meaning a performance bond. And also complete the project. Exactly, you know, builders risk insurance, all of those things. And what did you say about DuBois and King? They have professional liability insurance. Jeff, you said you could start in 2023. Did I, is my note correct on that? Or did you say to start? We would be prepared to start in 2023, yes. And what is, what's the critical path to, well, two things, what's the critical path you said prepared to start, but what has to come first? And then what does start? Sure, so in order to, in order to go in a higher contractor and authorize them to proceed, you know, we would want the permits in place, okay? So we expect those to be pulled together here within weeks to a month or so, and so that will certainly be ready to go. So even if we only make the formal application for permits on January 9th, you still think we'll get them back? I do. And primarily because the longest the lead time is the dam safety engineer, that dam safety engineer, dam safety permits, get my words correct. And because that's already been submitted, my understanding is much of the administrative work has already been completed. So it's primarily the engineering office themselves reviewing the plans and specifications. I expect the back and forth with them, you know, it's a review and comments and stuff like that. So I expect that, you know, in March timeframe. Okay, all right, so that's step one is get the permits in place. And then step two would be advertising the project. This assumes that, you know, funding is in place and ready to go. So then we would want to advertise the project for construction. And by the time it hits the newspaper, that is the RFP for construction and other outlets, say the newspaper in general. By the time that happens, the bids are in, they're reviewed, our recommendation is made and the contractor is selected. It's about six weeks. Six weeks? So how long do you give people when you send out the advertisement for the RFP? How long do people have to respond? I recommend the month. I think the minimum ought to be three weeks. So month just allows people to, like everybody, everybody's busy, including contractors, a little bit more time to be able to pull it together. And then I say six weeks, so a month and the bids are open at the end of that month. And then, you know, two weeks just to have all of the final paperwork issued. And who reviews the bids, you? We will, yeah, the DMCAC would be myself. This is my project I'm working on. And we would have recommendations, written recommendations. To CPA and the town? Correct. So this'll be the bids, the RFP will go out in, did you say, March? We would be prepared. Again, that's, you know, Ideally. Ideally, we bid this thing in March. Sooner is better, you know, in any construction here. Yes. Are there contractors aware of this project just kind of waiting for the RFP? I know there's at least one, yes, that we consider to be a qualified contractor locally. And that, I think, once we're talking about the same contractor, I think he's pursuing like a hundred, lots of division in Williamstown. So I hope that figures into his calculus. Yes. In terms of availability. That's, in fact, one of the bidders. Yep. We knock just anybody knows how to rebuild a dam, right? There's definitely qualifications, you know, that we need to make sure. It's largely a concrete job. We come in, we excavate, you know, the cofferdam's in, we've dewatered the area, we excavate down the bedrock, and underpin it and then build it back up. It's not a large job, you know. It's not a complicated project. So you wouldn't advertise until the funding is in place, correct? That would be my recommendation. You know, the Curtis Pond Association of 10 can certainly advertise it whenever you want. Advertising and soliciting bids prior to final permits happens all the time, right? The understanding is normally, you know, issuing a notice to proceed to a contractor, you know, until the rest of the legal documents such as permits are in place. But we were also thinking about the bond, the approval of the bond with the voters. Yeah. Would that be something we could still put out for bid pending approval of the bond? I would certainly think so, yes. Yeah. You know, the store, in the East Calus store, we were urged not to go out to bid until we had all of our funding on the grounds that some contract, that the bids would go stale, that if we had a weight of any time, any significant time, that the bids would go stale. Right. Right? Yeah, that's right. I don't know, that contractors wouldn't indicate their bids only lasted so long or whatever and that that'd be a problem. Is that, do you see a problem here or do you really think we could go ahead and start the bidding process before we know the results of a bond vote? You could cross the vote, so the bids come in after the vote. Go to our opinion. Yeah, I'm not opposed to that. I'm just curious what you think. You know, again, in our opinion as engineers and experienced, you can certainly advertise and solicit bids. We normally have a minimum of 60 days from whence the bids are in to hold them, contractors, you know, responsible. It's part of the bid bond. If they can't pull their bid away, or the bond pays. We had a contractor, we bid the job last March, and for different reasons, the job was delayed over the summer and they held their bid. And, you know, in this case, the entity, you know, really wanted them. It was a good bid and they're qualified and so they held their bid and we're getting ready to construct it as soon as the spring conditions allow. So that happens regularly. That if you wanted to bid it, you could bid the project in January or February. Middle of January to middle of February might even be more ideal. And you're not obligated to issue that and accept a little bit. The entity, in this case, the CPA, you know, has all of the flexibility we put in our documents. You can cancel, you can delay, you can hold. Okay, that's good stuff. And there's no penalty if they bid and the funding doesn't become available. There's no... That's correct. And again, we can get in specific language into these documents that indicate that the project would be awarded only once. Things like construction funding is in place and stuff like that. So we can tailor this. It's done regularly in our industry. Yeah, there's a number of other pieces of your order that have to be carefully sequenced. Yes, agreed. Other questions, comments from the board? We have a couple of minutes if anybody who's joined us has a question or comment to make about this. Question of Jeff. Will Worcester Road be closed at all during this? I wouldn't imagine so. We did speak with one contractor last summer out there about staging. And I don't think Worcester Road, Camp Road, we may have some very temporary, a few minutes or an hour here if we're quick to get an L. But beyond that, no, I'm anticipating. We're not really doing any work downstream of the dam. Wondering how the pond would be impacted during that time, whether there's limited use. I mean, obviously where the construction is happening, but other parts of the pond. The construction shouldn't affect any other use of it. As we're finalizing the permitting and the conversation that we haven't had is, can the pond be temporarily lowered, on the overall pond during construction? Even with a temporary cofferdam in place, it just makes it a little easier if a major storm comes in. It's just a little bit more of a safety side. It doesn't have to be lowered at all. It can be maintained where it is. And then it should not have any effect. You'd get some, some buoys or something out there. So kayakers not just gonna make their way upon the temporary dam. And, but it shouldn't have much impact. Obvious, if it did come down a couple of feet temporarily during that three months, then yes, it would be more. Okay, any, anything else? All right, so we have some permits to, you're gonna, he's gonna leave, he's gonna be leaving the dam with reps from the first pond association. They'll be following up with you? Yeah. That's okay. The rest of me. Maybe you shouldn't leave them with the board. Well, that's, I thought you were gonna do a little bit of a deed. I will leave them in your expert care. Thank you. You're welcome. And we can chat if you got questions on that. I can give you a call and we can just talk our way through those, but it should be all laid out and exploitative or what we need to do. Thanks for your presentation. You're welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. I'm just getting out of the budget meeting on my calendar and kind of what happened. Who brought these? I thought you did. You got them. Nondred? You just put them. Good. That's become what? I thought you did. I brought, you know what, but that's for later. Sorry, nobody leave without their bag. Okay, so where are we? We are on a personal update. Oh, okay. So we have an application for Director of Public Works, which we need to discuss. We have no new applications for Treasurer Business Manager. Sharon and I are going to meet with Gina Jenkins, who is the town administrator in East Montpelier. And we're gonna meet with her and look at her, what her duties are as town administrator. Have her look at our job description for Treasurer Business Manager just kind of. I think, yeah, last time we talked together about town administrator. Before, oh, Lauren, you're East Montpelier, right? Yes. All right, nice to see you. I was gonna give a shout out to all the public, all the positions open in town, but that might not be of much interest to you unless I have you listen. No, I was, I wanted to catch Cal's people. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. Probably all the Cal's people have heard it before. Well, we need to keep saying it. Go ahead, so that they wanna leave the camp. No, they can go. So the, as a general matter folks, on Cal's personnel, we talk here specifically about open and employed, full-time positions that we have failed and need to hire for. However, there are also innumerable volunteer opportunities. And as you all are aware, our small towns run on volunteers. So things don't work well when we don't have people volunteering. And we have open, we have a, we need in Cal us a constable, a second constable, an animal control officer and a second animal control officer. We have positions open in the planning commission. Conservation commission. Conservation commission, those are the big ones, yes? And then in March, we spoke earlier about opportunities that will be voted at town meeting. It will be four select board seats voted at town meeting this year. And the town clerk and thesters. And a number of those are not, the incumbents are not re-upping. So, yeah, on the select board, there are four seats. Actually, four of us are not running. And the listers, one person is not running. Right, one person is not running. Oh, cemetery commission. There's gonna be a seat open on cemetery commission. That's voted on from the floor. What else is voted on from the floor? Oh, public funds, trustee is a public funds. Right, right. I think there's gonna be, I don't know if there are, I don't remember who's up, I'd have to bring out my town report, but anyway, stay posted to the town website. We're gonna be posting a spreadsheet with the open positions and a little blurb about what that position entails. Yeah, but it's not too early to start thinking about what's the right fit. And to please, I realize in speaking to people who are here, but please spread the word. You might want to just sort of put people here to work here before explain. How come this whole thing with the town administrator versus just what you're doing? Well, we kind of did, you can watch the movie, people can watch the movie from last week. We're exploring a town administrator and then we try treasurer, we try treasurer, business manager. We just want to keep trying to keep our options open, keep options open and find things that will, options and then we'll get the job done that needs to be done. That's kind of, okay, and that gets me to my next piece. I was talking to Donna Fitch the other day and Rick and I desperately need some help with grants administration. This is right up Donna's things that she likes to do. She is willing to take all of the grant stuff that Rick and I can find. There's a box of file folders at the town office with all these different grants. So she's willing to take on the task of putting, going through everything, organizing it, coming up with a spreadsheet that we can use because we can't miss deadlines or matches. And like I said, Rick and I, I started it, Rick. Anyways, it's a long story. We just, as Blackboard members, we don't have time. It's a, it's like a one project piece that can be pulled out and at least get that up and running and organized so we don't miss deadlines. This is my greatest concern. So Denise, you and Rick have been working on highway grants. There's also CLG grants. There is... Say what CLG is. Certified local government, which is the ones historic preservation. And they come from where? They come from historic preservation. From the state, yeah. From the state. And there's one currently, I think it's, might be Maple Corner that's currently in process. Plus there's the one in Atomant. I'm trying to think what other... There's ECCT grants in process. Right, there's ECCT. I was working on some of that today. And so I hope that we're... It's the whole picture. It's not just everything. It's everything, and that's... One tab for each grant. One tab for each grant. So anyways, I'm gonna work with Donna to see. I want it to be like... Well that's easy to read. That's a, so the question is, do we want to hire Donna for a one-time project of corralling the grants? John, you got this? Yeah, so... Yeah, so my suggestion is that we can't do it tonight, so we didn't warn it. Donna's all in to do this. I would like to suggest that we pay her $20 an hour, not to exceed $1,500 without prior approval. And we'd have to vote on that next time. Sounds good. And she's can't start until the new year. So this works out fine that we could warn it to vote on this. We can vote on it on the second. On the January 9th. January 9th. January 2nd. Yeah. Great. When we do our budget meeting. Okay. Because that won't take long. And let the minutes reflect that the board, if he senses that my work is to support that. I think that agrees after it's warned. It would be... It's a one time project. It's a one time project, you know, and until we get somebody hired, she may be willing to continue to help us with the administration of the grants, the paperwork, there's a lot that goes on with grants. You know, as you know. I do. There's a lot of things you have to do. I think it would be, yeah, I think it actually would make the job of anybody we hire so much easier to just take it over and run it after somebody has sent all the legwork to organize it. And for Donna, knowing Donna, that'll be the fun part is organizing it. Right. And to Donna's credit, she said, you know, yeah, I'd like to get paid something, but she said that really, her main objective is to help the town. Right. And that's really... It always has been. Donna has always been willing to step up and help the town. And it's really, really appreciated. Great. So, yes, we can warn that for January 2nd. However, January 2nd is not a regular meeting and let's resist the temptation to pilot up with other things. Right. But this is kind of budget-oriented. Yeah, she can get started. Right. Okay. Moving along, now we're on public comment. Is anyone here to speak to items that are not specifically on the agenda already? Marge, would you like to come forward and join us? Yes. There's three of us that are the first one. Exactly, there's four. Yeah, come on, come on. I'm refusing myself, so I'm gonna just move here. Okay, what is this? You're refusing yourself. Is this the first one? Is this under public comment, Marge? Yes. Yes. Okay. And I have a poll, we need to read it. And then we have a number of people that are from the first one area. So, we can see right here. So, this is what it looks like then. Okay. So, what we wanted to do was just talk about the repair and stress that we feel it's, we would love to get it done this summer. What we have a lot of enthusiasm or afraid if we keep delaying and delaying that it's gonna, what's gonna happen is like what has happened in the last number of attempts, people just lost enthusiasm and we've got some really good enthusiasm. So, we're just requesting that select board. It is such a great town asset that we, let's get it done is what we wanted to emphasize tonight. For asking, and I think you already put it on, get the permits to be able to get those signed at the next meeting January 9th. The permit application. Yeah, the application. Yes, we have to be really clear. Yeah. We asked and then we have to wait for somebody to approve them. Right, the permit applications. And I do wanna mention that if it would make it easier on you guys, I know that the fees are minor on here. If you wanted the Curtis Pond Association to pay for those fees so you didn't have to deal with, I know that you're having lots of issues with the financial end of the stuff. So if we make it easier for us to actually write the checkout. Okay. Does that make it easier? Yes. It does. Okay. So I'm throwing that out. You guys can choose if you'd like to do that. And the other thing is I wanted to find out when the ARPA funds, we've put a request in for 100,000, when is the decision gonna be made? They're gonna be, those kind of requests are gonna be placed on the warning, just like the social services. Okay. So the ones that, like for something for the town, like the speed study, we're just gonna use ARPA funds for that. But the ones like the East Calis Fire District, the dam, and I forget, Twin Valley Senior Center. I think we should discuss the fire district because I don't know, there's consensus on it, or I have a different opinion about it. That's not what we're talking about. No, no, no. No, but I'm just saying that that's, because obviously we expect to have raised 250,000 by March. We can get the $100,000 thing approved. Then we don't need to ask for the bond to be as high. Right. I see what you're saying. Right. We can discuss it. Yeah, we can discuss it. Yeah, but either way, it's either way of the request. Well, so it'd be a good thing to think about and talk about on the second. Yeah, and I would imagine that one of the roles of the board is to keep, you know, we are keeping track of what the requests are. And we haven't really had a substantive conversation about whether we feel that we have a role I think we do, you know, spoiler, in deciding whether we will even warn $100,000. Well, yeah, it's up to us. Right, how much we will warn, even if it all still fits in the bucket. So that is a role for the board. And then, yes, to John's point of which bucket things fall into is a role of the board. Yeah, but we have to agree whether or not to put it on the warning and what that looks like. Right, and at what level. Right, and I'm obviously asking that the select board approved to put it on the town heating agenda and if there's anything we can do for research or help with any of that. We're aware, so right now, Marge, you're speaking to the request that we warned for the bond. Yes. So we're talking about two things. One is warning for ARPA funds to be done and another is for the bond. Well, for either, if you need any information about the dam, we will help out. Yeah, okay. We're aware. Yeah, we appreciate that, thank you. Thank you. And there was one thing I was gonna say and I lost my track of thought. Did you, maybe it's the Secretary and colleagues, the President, I didn't know if you wanted to add anything to what I said. I mean, we're relying on Jeff's timeline. We're a little behind on that. We thought we'd have the permits in hand now because we're at the end of the long list that was expected. It's taken longer, as always. But our urgency now, so a lot is in his hands that we can't really do anything about but getting the bond vote on is in your hands or so and anything we can do to facilitate that. For clarification, we're not holding that. We're, Des Moines King is still consolidated and getting their paperwork all ready. Oh, right, no, I should say. But I mean, but only you can get the bond vote on. No, yeah, that's right. Yeah, we can't facilitate that. So that's what we're asking you to put as high regard to get it on this month. I mean, this year's time. Yeah, that's good. Well, and to be clear, Colleen, even if we didn't warn it for town meeting in March, we can call a special meeting anytime for any purpose. But with the construction people, the thing is like, this is year four for us and we've always been advised by Du Bois and King that we really should have the contractor signed seal delivered in January. So us going to bond vote in April or May would prop. We lose a year. I just wanted to clarify that. No, I get that. It's not March, 2023 or March, 2024. I realize that. We could have a four town meeting. That's true. You could petition on this, putting it out there. But I don't think his stuff's going to be ready. Yeah, we all have all the approvals by then. And it may or may not be strong. He doesn't have bid ready. And it's not. Yeah. Oh, I see. We don't have five or longer. We're hoping to have that by then. Well, and actually to John's, to follow up on John's point, there's two ways that items can land on the town meeting agenda. Warnings. Warnings should be voted. One is that the select board looks at each other and says, we want to put it on the warning for a vote at town meeting. Another is that people petition. And if we get a petition. 15 people. Five voters petition us. And it's in market research where it is in the deadline that we must get petitions. Might want to do that. If we get a petition, then it's not up to us. It just goes on because somebody asked for it. So we can. If you do a petition and it's, you have to check with, check with Jeremy, but it's probably it's 5%. There's about 16, 1300 registered voters. I think. So it'll be about 70. Yeah, I would always say more. Okay. So that's, that's an option too. And I was going to say, for some reason, we put it on, doesn't pass. That's another way. We can do it again. Right. That's right. Yeah. But you did. Hello. Hold on, sir. Your name is? Go ahead. Uh-huh. Thank you. Vice chair. Before you would do a petition, we still need to have that number. Yeah. Because you're petitioning to put a certain bond amount on the warning. So. Right. So we're still kind of. It's the bottom. I think maximum. We know. I think maximum is 450. The bond amount? Yeah. Maximum. Yeah. Because. I'm thinking that. And if we don't spend it all. Well, and if it's something over, then we'll just have to figure out how to. Well, and I know when we did it. Or get donations. There will be quarters of a day. No, but I think we, if we get more donations. I think that would. Yeah. Mark Mahala, just as clarification. I think logistically, we probably want to go with the 450. Just because. What if the 100,000? Let's say the board decides to put the 100,000 on the ballot. And it doesn't pass. But the bond issue does. I mean, I don't need the 450. Conversely. We don't. My conversations have led me to believe that if you warn 450, you don't have to spend 450. No, but you could buy anything up to 450. So that. But it would make it more difficult for folks to vote for 450 and 350, right? Sure, but a little extra. And kind of an enticement is, well, the town select boards already, if this were the case, agreed to appropriate 100,000 of the federal monies that were. Yeah, the ARPA funds. Toward this project. If and when that bond passes. I think so. That might entice people to support the bond. I think so. There's no question. Logically, for them, it would make no difference. Because if they vote the 100 in, then the bond issue would be the lower amount. But I think you're right. That if the board puts the 100,000 in, it's your way of saying, it's something we support. We want to do. We urge you to do it. And I think that might help. The other thing is, I think it, whenever the election is, I agree that, you know, we could have a bond election at town meeting. We could have a bond meeting election before or after. Advance. But in either case, if it's not on a town meeting, we lose a year. Because of the season of construction. That's really the driving force. Yeah. Is the season. Just so folks know if we receive a petition to kind of force the vote prior to town meeting, there's a cost to that. Yeah. The size of it. Right. And a lot of time and effort for everyone. The bond vote has to be by Australian ballot. It can't be done. So it's a big difference in terms of the setup. And that's what we would prefer to do at a town meeting. That's why we would. And hope in, we're being optimistic that's going to pass. But we do, you know, we do acknowledge that if, if it doesn't pass them, maybe then we might have to do a special. But then we've missed, probably missed our window. Right. But a petition, I think this was already clear, but a petition can be for before town meeting or petition can be after, after or after that. I was just looking on this list, this timeline to see when a petition has to be filed to be on the warning at town meeting. To be on the warning. I'm just looking to see if it's, it's got to be on here, but I can't deadline for public petition signed by at least 5% of voters for articles to be included in the warning to be submitted to town clerk, January 19th. January 19th, yeah. And I did remember what I wanted to say is that I guess I'm pursuing a, we get wind of some potential grants. So we're trying to pursue that too, but those are, there's no guarantee on any of those, but I just, we happen, we're trying to get grants. The federal ones take an ungodly amount of time. So these are the ones that I don't think will take years. All right, I don't understand the timing. What are you warning the ARCA funds? You have to get, you have to warn while you're. If you want to file a petition to have a bond vote put on the town meeting warning, you have to file the petition. Oh right, no, I'm talking about ARCA when you were talking about warning. With the board, well, we're going to be doing a budget meeting. January 2nd, you know, to talk about the warning, the budget, all those things. So we are warning at town meeting requests for certain requests for ARCA funds. So on the list that we, for the sake of discussion right now, assume we will warn is a request from Curtis Pond Association for some ARCA funds for the Curtis Pond Dam project. So there's no way we know anything about that. When voters vote, they will not know that. Well, just to be. It happens at the same time. To further clarify. Well, it's like the warning for special, we have the floor. I just wanted to clarify. I'm clarifying, to further clarify the expenditure of the ARCA funds solely into discretion of the select board, Denise and Sharon and others have thought that it would be more democratic and allowed to allow the community to have an input on it. But at the end of the day, the select rate can make that decision. You're not making that decision before that. And we've made that decision in terms of the fiber optic rollout and maybe some other things. But the rest will not be till after you hear comment at town meeting. No, we haven't made it. What Denise said, we haven't made that decision that we're gonna have a conversation, I guess next meeting on budget and affirm whether or not the funding request for the water district, fire district and East Calis should be something to decide about voters or should we just do it in-house? Or, or, or is it not a worthy request and we won't approve it at all? Right, there's that. But we will not know before town meeting. What? No, they could. You will know when they finalize our budget which way we fly. In our warning. Right, in the warning. And so what I wanted to make clear is that it will, my vision is that it will appear on the warning like it does all the other social services organizations. You know, use of ARPA funds, this is how much we have. This is how much the request amount too. So it looks like the social services. So they would be voting on two, if it may. Makes a warning. They would be voting on 450 and 100. Right, so they would be voting on two items for her to stand. Right. And the problem with warning them both at town meeting is that we would have to go high on the bond amount to cover both. So can that be amended at the meeting, reducing it if the ARPA thing gets done? Bond, bond, bond amounts, the ARPA could, but the bond amounts are Australian dollar. That's going to be confusing to voters, I would say. It might be. It would be like you're voting for 550 for Curtis, not 450. Well now the bond vote would say its own amount, but the warning would say its own amount. It's ARPA. I know, but it looks like it looks like you're voting for 450 and 100, even though the 100's coming from somewhere else. I would say that would be a guess. Someone can say they need to move on. Yeah, no, we need to move on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One question, I should know this, but I don't. Is the deadline for the printing of the Australian ballot the same as the deadline for printing the Australian ballot? He does that generally. Well, I always been tracking it. The deadline is for when we have to get things to be deadline for corrected public petitions, included in the warning January 23rd. Deadline for public petitions to be included in the warning January 23rd, which is the same time that the select board has to approve and sign the warning. So it kind of, it works together. It does together, okay. Yeah. All right, thank you all. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Okay, moving on to town meeting. So, yeah, so we have to do it in person. Right, so we talked about this last time. I just want to put this to bed. So I want to put this to bed that we talked about. We've been engaging ourselves in this conversation about how to do town meeting. And Jeremy was here last time, a very helpful, we really didn't have a choice that town, unless the legislature takes some action, which last year we fully anticipated they would. And this year, apparently there's no reason we should particularly anticipate that. So have you heard something new? I attended a VLCT legislative update with Karen Horn and Gwen Zaka, Zaka, yeah, I would usually say a lot of names. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like they anticipate our legislature doing anything to allow us to have town meeting as we have the last two years. Right. So that confirms that the silence means that there's no, right. Unless our legislators hear from a number of people that are concerned. Well, I hope that if they evacuate the building suddenly like they did last time, they give us the same ability to evacuate our buildings. Yeah. But it doesn't always work that way. But notwithstanding, we could, the fact right now is we need to move full steam ahead on in-person, on the idea and the assumption of putting things in place to be in-person. Yes. And we don't even have to vote on it because there's no choice. Yeah. So we're not gonna keep warning this, we're gonna keep. Right. And we can decide later what are, what we're gonna be saying exactly about the asks, right? Right. And unless we hear something, or our representative hears something, when he's attending various functions, you know, that there could be a change to that. And I, you know, I've heard a number of that. I know that our new representative is planning to attend select board meetings. Yeah. Which is almost novel. Yeah. And I think that when I get back, you know, I'm gonna probably take me, frankly, a week to kind of like get my legs, but the question I'll ask is, which committee handles this? I think it's probably GoVox, but I'm not sure. Yeah. No, they talked about that today. GoVox, yeah. Once we know who the chair of GoVox is, I will take the time to go to the chair and say, you know, we're forced to have it in-person, but everybody's worried what about masks, and you know, what's the state of the current line? Would you, is there any move for a change? Right, and they'd have to, the legislature, as you know, would have to act really quickly. They would have to give it their time so quickly. Yeah, yeah. So, I wanna quickly ask Denise to just run us through our items on the timeline, just for select board stuff, but then we've had some conversation about our select board report. We have already missed the deadline. Yeah, we always miss it. I know, but we were, and then I wanna talk, I wanna break down our conversation about the report and assign specific writing to each of us, but go ahead Denise on the timeline. Okay, January 9th, final budget. Last day for the warning is the 23rd, I'm talking January now. Yeah. This is past 10 meetings, so we don't need to worry about that, but so that's pretty much it. January 9th, January 23rd. Okay. So we, in our minds, and then Mark's gonna follow up, just documenting what we talked about around our select board report. Denise, just to memorialize, Denise is making a list of the things that we've accomplished. Or the things that we've done. So if you have thoughts on just a catalog of a list, it doesn't have to be a lot of paragraphs. It's usually bullet points. Just a quick bullet point. Well, try to stick to the more interesting stuff generally. So things that are out of the norm perhaps, if you have thoughts on that, I will ask Rick to write a report about the Rhodes crew and- Did you get my email? You guys got my email. I almost mentioned that we did, Mark. Yes. It's funny, I didn't hear it. Okay. Do you hear me say we got your email? My wife told me this all the time. Yes, yes. It's called selective hearing. Okay, I'm sorry. Yes. So I said that we talked about this before, and then Mark sent a note kind of summarizing what we talked about. I have to review it again. And so Denise is making that list. I'm going to ask Rick to write about Rhodes. And then I had ideas about what Mark and John could write. Well, I hadn't- I'm going to write about volunteers. What I just said, so we can put that in. We're going to list, I was going to do a list of the open positions and a blurb about ARPA, just so people understand what ARPA is and how we came. It wasn't like easy. I remember spending days trying to get into that system, and so it was a process, and I think people need to know what that process was that everybody had to go through. I'm going to ask Rick. I said, I'm going to put these things down now. Rick on Rhodes. John, do you feel like- I'm sorry to interrupt you, Mark. John, do you feel like we're in a place where you could write something about the legal work you've been doing? Yeah? Okay, so, John. Broad terms. Yep. Do you feel TH7 is worth writing about, Rick? Well, I think that, I would just put that in our bullet points. Yeah, I don't think it deserves- I don't think it deserves prime time. Okay. I said, I kind of feel the same way. Yeah, I know I do. I think it took a lot of work, but it's not- Right. It's just a very individual thing. Yeah, the process is work, but it's not something that people only want to hear us about. And what's Mark going to do? I'll think of something real interesting. As you saw, I did ECCT, and I did the dam. Okay. Okay, that's good. I mean, you know- Did you write a text on that? It's in the email I wrote about two long paragraphs. One paragraph. Okay, I didn't scroll down enough. Yeah. Okay, so- I gave you text to fill in. Okay. That's helpful. All right, thank you for doing that. And then, if everybody wants to send me their text, I'll put it into the format that we usually use. Okay, and you don't need me to re-send you that. No, I haven't. And then I'll read it. I'll read it all when it's compiled to make sure we have one voice. Well, okay. Okay. Then- Okay, so we talked about the budget meeting. We're going to do that. Just to be clear again on Monday, January 2nd at five, Mark's out of town. Okay. Do you want me to do a Rhodes report? Would I know? And we have John here. So I just have to put out a huge shout out of appreciation, dedication, commitment, willingness to go above and beyond for the road crew for this last storm that we had. These guys, I did their time sheets today. An average 24 hours of overtime, on average. And that was within just a couple of days' time. John just barely got home from the long day and Rick got a call about a wet truck stuck- A wet truck stuck on Apple Hill. And they were from Massachusetts. Yeah, there you go. Trying to get the power installed. I mean, and the linemen deserve credit for all the time they put in, too. But you had to go out and help pull the truck, the wet truck out of the snowbank or something on Apple Hill after he just got home from all this extra plowing. So thank you, thank you, John. Thank you. I had a little truck. Now you're able to do it? So- You put it off, Sandy. What time was that? I started, because the call came at five after everybody by the time it got back and reloaded with sand and everything. And it probably took me those whoever's six to get up there. Wow. So Denise, 24 hours of overtime. That's not per person. Yes, it is. In two days, on average, in just over, yeah, two days, because you guys were out, when did the, you guys were out Friday? We started, actually, we started on Sunday, I believe, when we had it. Yeah, we went out Friday. Friday. And then you were out Saturday. We usually get down 11 o'clock on Friday, and we were there until late Friday night. Right. And then we started at four on Saturday. Right, and then- We went until two. I think this is the- And then you were out Sunday too, I think. We were out Sunday too. Yeah, they were out Sunday too, sanding. And now we have another storm coming for Christmas, yay. Which sounds like it's gonna be a lot of rain. I talked to Peter briefly. A lot of high winds. Yeah, wind and rain. And when I talked to Peter this morning, he said the rain is just gonna be a disaster though. Yeah. I'm very grateful that you guys are there to do this. I'm also very concerned. 24 hours of overtime in a, what, 48 or 36. If it's a 48 hour period, that means that you worked a total of 32 hours. If my math is right. In a 48 hour, wait a minute. 16. Well, you guys go by the winter roads maintenance plan so that you have an able break, right? Well, only eight hours off in two days. And that's- Or 16 hours, but eight hours per day. No, in 48 hours. If it's really- 42. If they worked- Yeah. If, okay, let's stick with me here. 48 hours in two days, do we agree on that? And they had two regular- Oh, is it because Friday was a- Because Friday was an afternoon. Friday afternoon is part of their day off. So we- It's the timing of the storm. So we haven't changed that so that we're- Right. So that's still half a day, regular hours. That's, okay, so we're paying overtime on Friday afternoon. Right. Okay. Yeah, I mean it was, I, yeah, one of my concerns has always been safety. This is what- My concern has always been safety. Right, it just- And even, and Dana came in, even though he said it for 10 hours. Yeah, safety- Yeah, safety is a huge concern with that much work. It doesn't feel safe, it's the bottom line. It doesn't feel, yeah. And I think it's not, I see your hand down in a second. I agree. I think also we've heard, beyond our own personal concerns, we've heard from the experts when we were in conversations with Better Roads that that's outside a safe norm. I think they recommend eight hours break. Right, eight hours. And that's what's in our winter maintenance plan. Okay. But hopefully we won't have another go-around. And that's, yeah, while we, at one point had budgeted for a fifth person to break that up. Yeah. Okay, go ahead, John. You have a question? I'm coming in too, especially Saturday morning when the wire's coming down. We have truck radios, but no cell service. So we could talk amongst ourselves, but we couldn't get help from anybody. Yeah. We can't reach out to the state police. We can't reach out to our companies. Rick mentioned that. It's a big concern that we need to get better radios as long as there was a truck. I thought there was an emergency challenge we could reach out on the phone. Not on our radio, for real. Rick said that they're really old radios and that we really should have for safety. But we're fine talking amongst ourselves about this truck that we can't, like when we come up on a wire dam, one of my, I can't call and call another truck to sit there to wait if there are kids up, we can't notify the company. Or 911 or anything. So when the office is open, the office last night had a radio. Yeah, we can call them. Is that still, they're still running that radio, right? Yeah. So they're an office hours you can call in. Right. Right. Yeah, and Rick mentioned that you had an experience with a wire down and yeah, it was not a safe situation. So thanks for bringing that up. This also argues in support of our having a select board member as the road commissioner. Cause then that person would have a radio, base radio at their home. That kind of emergency, John could say, you know, one out of 12 road commissioner, we need you to do the following. Yeah. But we should also look at just having better radios in the trucks anyways, even if they can get the road commissioner, if it's two, three o'clock in the morning when you're starting and something happens. Yeah. You need to have a way to be safe. So we really need to be thinking about this. I have no idea what they cost. I've got to call CV paging about a pager for, is it Ogden or Dana? I don't know if they're the ones that would do some kind of radio thing like this. I can ask if they do it. Do you know who, do you have any idea? No. So. Well, we need to do some work on that. Yeah. I don't know if you folks never heard names out of it, but last year, I guess it was a Woodbury plow truck, big expensive plow truck, one in the chains on the back, broke loose, going up Cabard Road. Good. And lost control and went over the brink, totaled the truck. Was the driver hurt? The driver, to my understanding, was not hurt. And he was able to radio for help. Thankfully. But it shows you how critical his radio is. Or he could not get out, he was pinned in the cab. Oh gosh. Okay. And out of that Peter? Yeah. Yeah, he worked here? Yeah. No, if you would come to him. So Peter, Daly, who was working for the town at the time, you lost a chain on the back. Yeah, I think it's really critical that we have to do something right away. The other thing was, is Rick did a ride along with you on Lightning Ridge Road. He was my lunchbox everything. Oh, did it? He ate his lunch? What? It wasn't my lunchbox, man, it's a problem. Oh, it's a problem, yeah. Tell him to bring his own lunch. But anyway, so he said that you guys, went down Lightning Ridge and talked about ways to mitigate concerns of some residents on Lightning Ridge, let's just say. We're gonna narrow plow it. Right, yeah, but that's great. I think that's great. And I could tell when I went by today, I could see the difference. The first truck I did was doing, he does the sand or the solid, and he didn't have the men up. And he did plow back first. Yeah, but everybody's on the same page now. So that's a great solution. Yeah. And you guys have all the tools you need because I think Rick before and I found this pretty major time kit, but you don't still need anything of that nature, okay. I do want to ask a question. I got a constituent asking me whether there was enough sand on Marshall's sand. Well, they live on Marshfield Road and they slipped and fell after trying about five times not to. And then someone else told me that they slipped and fell. I mean, getting out of their car. Walking on the road. Oh, walking on the road. And I'm just wondering, is that just because it was unavoidable with just the conditions? We've been sandin' every day since we've been sandin'. I think there's more. Sometimes it warms up enough that the sand goes down into it and it glades as open. Yeah, yeah, I mean walking on the road. Right now is not a good idea. Your friend needs some microsplates. Yeah, she needs some studded boots. That's what I know. So that was a heavy wet snow. It was. And when that gets compressed by car tires, it turns to ice. And they're not gonna, and the snow continued. It's all sand, yeah. Continuing and they generally don't sand, maybe on hills they do, but they generally don't sand the entirety of the road system until the snow stops. And they're not, and they're not wasting sand. And let's just say out loud, we're not sanding to a walking standard. That's not the goal. We can't have a goal of bare roads or walking standard. People need to. Microspikes. So I fell on my wife, where's spikes? Really good snow tires and really good microspikes. Folks just need to be careful. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you, John. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming. You're a good resident and employee for doing that. Thank you. Nice. Yeah, it's nice to have people here. Okay, so we have, that's our, we've asked, I'm going to keep carrying winter plow routes map. Yeah, did you guys work on updating the plow maps? They're trying different things. And I, now there's a difference between weekends and regular days, because like Monday through Friday, we're chasing school buses trying to stay and the school buses have different routes and different paths. Right. That makes sense. There's actually roads that will be more convenient to get them, like in conjunction with the other roads, but we're going on the roads that school buses run. Gotcha. Yeah, that's you're right. That doesn't make a difference. So everybody's pretty much up to date on what's going on. Yeah. It works out pretty good. Good. And somebody that gets behind, we've got our radio, the work truck, the truck, there's only a few pickups. Okay. It's been running around, kind of fiddling in a little bit. He's a, you know, we don't, he's not running chains. He's got to have a smaller truck. They get around a little, they just want to eat something nice, let's buy and get around for that. Did you, did the water get delivered? Okay. I'll have to follow up with them. The bottle of water. Yeah, I ordered, I got a new person, new company to do the water and then I got to get rid of the, have the other company come and pick up the stuff and give us back our deposit. They were supposed to come last week on Wednesday or Thursday, which is what I told you guys. So I'll have to call the person I spoke with and see what's going on. Okay. Let's move along, John. Thank you. So let's just quickly, well, let me just ask if anybody has any topics to just update the board on that we are not already aware of, haven't already talked about. Okay. Thanks, John. We, our next meeting we've just decided is January 2nd to work on budget. Our next regular meeting, which is a Monday, the next regular meeting is January 9th. We will approve the permit applications for Curtis Pond, presumably. Can we warn the speed ordinance? Oh, you did on that. There it is. Yeah, traffic control. Yep. We can warn it for approval if you get us something in advance to. Yes, I would. Okay. We are perennially hopeful that we'll have some committee appointments. Denise mentioned that she and Barbara are working on calling people. Yeah. And I asked the, you know, this may be obvious, but to make sure that when they're asked, we have a number of people who should have been approved in 2022. And for a while we were doing that sort of like staggered at any point in time, people might be approved. And since we're making these calls so late in the year, I asked if they could line everybody up that they're speaking to be re-approved again in March of 2023, because I don't know. I'm sure that as a board, the board will go all over the place over time. But right now from where I sit, it seems like it'd be easier if we had a point in time where people said yes or no in March. Right, well, unusually we would warn, we would call people and ask them to serve, continue to serve, or would you serve or positions, we would usually do that in March. So with everything going on with COVID and everything, I think, you know, we just got off track. So if we ask them now to continue for the rest of this term and in 2023 as well, I think that's a good idea. Well, if they're one year, but some of them are two year or three year. Right. So being, you know, approved in March for whatever their actual term would be is great. And that's right now. Well, we have Woodbury Volunteer Fire Department who will come and speak to us, although I think we already have their budget requests. We have their budget requests, which we're gonna have to really look at on the second. Yeah. And that's it so far, although any number of things will I'm sure come forward between now and then. I hope the current spot would be warrant item. For what? We, it was in January 9th, the last meeting of which you had to warrant. We warned the budget. We warned. So that's part of the budget. If it's part of the budget, we have to approve the budget on the 9th. I'm talking about warranting the bond vote. That'll be part of what we do for warnings. That's part of the warning. Right. That'll be, so the discussion of whether to, to put the bond vote out will be part of the overall budget discussion. Oh, okay. Well, we should, but we should warn a specific conversation about warned items or a gender review, including warned items or something for the, for the warning. For the warning. Right. I mean, I think our January 9th meeting, we're really going to have to dedicate it to finalizing the budget, finalizing the warning, doing the permit applications, keep it really limited to those kinds of things because we have to get that done. So we don't generally warrant each specific item. We just don't. That we are going to warrant. However. We, I absolutely encourage that we have discussions about unusual items, like the conversation we have with Jeremy about changing the grace period. That was a warned conversation on, not a vote, but just a discussion so that everybody's aware, if they choose to pay attention to what's going on in these meetings, that the absence of a vote is a very, very important thing. And I think it's important to make sure that the absence will be of a grace period warned. That's a deduction we decided to go. We don't actually warn the vote. Yeah, I agree. And also we've had a number of conversations about the current response association's request that we've warned this as a topic. I would be uncomfortable putting it on as a warned item if we hadn't had this conversation. It's a little bit of a blindside. Right. Well, and it sounds like there might be a petition. So that's even. And a petition. That's necessarily true at all. Well, that would rest, that would calm the angst because you would be in control of the request, the response association. Do I have permission to talk to this town attorney about the wording of the petition? Sure. Well, no, you should pay for that yourselves. If you're gonna warn an item, then the people who are bringing a separately petition requested more of an item. Yeah. And you don't have to pay for their, and Mark, we've had over the years, maybe before, you only may remember it. We've had warned items around immunizations, we've fired a department, yeah. Okay, I understand what bothering me is. Number one, we are partners. You know, we've entered into an MOU which says we want this to happen. The town wants it to happen, the CPA wants it to happen. We both signed the permanent applications. You have a process with an attorney going on, which I am not privy to. Correctly so. And I do not want to, not necessarily so. It's not correct, it's a choice. Anyway, I'm kind of reluctant for them to go ahead and put something together, gin something up on the basis of some private council and have your lawyer say, oh, well that's not the right language, why should we do that? Well, we always have our lawyer look at the whole warning. The whole warning, yeah. And so, if the Correspondent Association chose to request a separately, to go through the, let's call it the private process for a petition, then I would say, sure, it would be part of the whole warning, but in terms of really developing it, I think it would be inappropriate for the town's attorney to develop that warned item. It would be, that's my feeling. Otherwise we're petitioning ourselves, kind of. I love their, what are you saying that, let's say we put together something, the CPA put together something that says, we petition the town to warn a bond for the Correspondent for $450,000. Done. Okay. That's it. Okay. Yeah, is that the language? Well, and there's any number of bond votes we have warned over the years are not particularly complicated. They might be excellent models. You know, why don't you, here's a thought. It's gonna get reviewed by the town attorney anyways. That's what we're gonna do. Let me finish. But to make sure that if there's a petition filed, it's right, why could we not have Mark, Sen, John, and I, the language, and then we run it by the attorney. Yeah. And that would get to the same issue that you're addressing, so that the petition is. I think what you said Mark, so it is, this is not that complicated. Yeah. I mean, that's basically. So why don't you just, why don't you do that? Why don't we spend $450,000? It's not gonna cost us that much to have, right, to have, yeah, look at it, just to make sure that it's right. And the bond, yeah, as I said, the bond, I don't remember that we spent, any time developing bond votes in previous years. Well, there hasn't been that many. Well, there was no for trucks and stuff. That's not a, that's not a bond. We bought it for this fire department. Yeah, maybe that's it. That was years ago. Anything now that comes before the board for trucks and things like that, it's not a bond. No, it's not, because the payment term is less than. Is he suddenly, was that fire truck the last time we bonded something? No. We don't bond for a fire truck. The term is over five years. Right, it's a magic number. Right, it's five years. And he has to bond. Right. That's what we've been advised by the council. Right. So, the last time we bonded was the firehouse, firehouse. The term is 20 years. So that required a bond. And the last time, and the fire station, just so everybody knows, the first time they went out to bond, it didn't pass. The second time it did. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. And that's a risk, yeah, either way. Right. That was a little different, just to be clear. Yeah. They had a larger firehouse and more exotics, probably not the right term, a more expensive first proposal for the firehouse in total. Yeah. And they went back and they revised the numbers and reduced the scale of the building. And then it passed. And then it passed. The dam is not like we're going picking from a catalog of dams. Yeah. There's a gold-plated dam and there's a copper-plated one. There's one dam. It's a concrete dam. And that's what it's going to cost. So that this bond is what it's going to be. Yeah. Yeah, there's not much choice in this. So I'm happy with that. OK. So we have to, can I make a motion to go into executive session? Yeah, please. Yes. Make a motion to go into executive session to discuss appointment or employment of a public office or employee E under 1VSA, section 313A3, and personnel matters. We'll come out and do them again. OK. That advice that we come out. Legal matters? OK. So we're going in first. Denise has made a motion. Is there a second? Is there a second? Second. All in favor, please say aye.