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Just leave a comment in the first 24 hours and make it a good one. So Doug will pick it. Okay. Oh, one more thing before we start this amazing podcast, we are running the phase two bundle. Phase two bundle includes two of our most popular maps, workout programs. The first one is maps performance. This one is athletic minded. And then we have maps aesthetic, which is bodybuilder minded both programs by themselves about three months long. So if you combine the two, you get a phenomenal six months of expert exercise program. Great workouts. You look amazing. And you move amazing. Normally both programs together will cost you almost 300 bucks. But right now you get the phase two bundle. It's $79.99 cents. Go check them out. Go to maps, February.com. All right. Enjoy the show. How amazing are the, the deadlift videos that are getting posted right now. Oh, I'm so great. I'm so impressed. What's the hashtag? I love to watch it, man. Strong woman deadlift. Okay. Some of these, some of these ladies are pulling, bro, there's some serious weight. Did you see it? There was a cheekbone pulling 400 pounds. 400 pounds, dude. Yeah. Oh my God. No, it's that's impressive. It's really, really cool to see. You know, I mean, we talked about this, you know, Chokey and I talked about this almost a month ago about doing something for a woman's day, which is March 1st, right? So national woman's day is March 1st. And we wanted to come up with something really cool, like some sort of a cool giveaway just for women. And we talk so much about the benefits of squatting and deadlifting and that, you know, more and more, more and more now we see more women doing it than before. I mean, we saw nobody doing it just 15 years ago. And then men started doing it in the, in the commercial gyms. And now you're starting to see more and more women. And I'm just blown away by the response. Yeah. You know, I anticipated us to get, you know, a little bit of people that were like, Oh yeah, I love the deadlifting. Here's videos. But boy, it's hundreds and hundreds of people. Yeah, they're flooding in right now. And so I'm super, super pumped. It's, I don't know, you know, how much, I don't know how many people who are listening have been in gyms as long as we have, but it's, this is one of the most amazing swings that I can think of in fitness. It's okay. This is no joke. When I first started working in gyms, even five years into my career, if I deadlifted a man, a trainer, deadlifted, inevitably a member would come up to me and tell me that I don't, what are you doing? You're gonna hurt yourself. You're not supposed to do that. Tell the manager. Tell the manager. Nobody deadlifted. Not men, not women. There was in these gyms, you know, some of these gyms I managed were, you know, 30, 40,000 square foot facility. So they're big box gyms. 2,000 workout today. Yeah. And there was one, this is not an exaggeration. There'd be one squat rack in the whole place. And it would be dusty. Nobody would do anything in there, except for the occasional person doing barbell curls, you know, in the squat rack, because the other whatever stations were taken up. Nobody did these things. Then little by little, you started seeing, you know, guys do it. Women never, they wouldn't even touch them. And I remember when I would train clients and I would have them do some of these lifts, it was a process of convincing them why they need to do it, why this is so beneficial. Luckily I can be pretty convincing. I know you guys are as well, but it only took about a month of doing them before I had to stop. I didn't have to convince them anymore. They would start doing it and they would be like, my butt. Oh my God, my back. Everything looks amazing. I feel so good. Why I'm eating more calories and burning more body fat. What's going on? I'm like, you're doing the most effective exercises. Yeah. Yeah. You know, now it's really cool to see. It's super, super cool. I love seeing it. And you know, of course, Kudos to, I think CrossFit had a play to roll in that as well, because when they came on the scene, they had a bunch of, you know, fit, great looking women doing these lifts. And I think that kind of broke the stereotype a little bit. That's great to see now. That's what's open the doors for sure. That's what's even more exciting than I felt like watching these videos. I mean, there's obviously, there's a, there's, you know, a handful of women that are competing, that are powerlifting. You can even see some of these girls are training in probably a CrossFit type of gym, but then there's just a lot of just normal ass clients that are deadlifting and it's fricking awesome to see. That's, that's to me. And you don't have to be a power lifter. It's just a really, you know, important foundational lift that gets you strong overall. And then you build upon that and you can sculpt and you can do whatever with your body in terms of training. But it's such one of those crucial lifts that I love to see, you know, people come back to when I, when, when Doug hired me years ago, and we first met, he hired me because he had back problems. And I remember when I had him deadlift for the first time, either look on his face was like, I have back stuff. You sure? I'm like, yes, don't worry. This will make your back bulletproof. Today, Doug's back is pretty much bulletproof. The guy never hurts. But when he came to me, he had back problems, among other things, deadlifting was part of getting his back to get strong. Of course, I progressed him properly and we did everything appropriately. But he got to the point where he was pulling more than twice his body weight and back never had a problem at all. Yeah, just one of those things. So it is really, really cool to see. And I also, you know, you're seeing too a lot now. Adam is in the the female bikini competition world, which, you know, they're they're trying, they're not really trying to get super buffed or whatever. A lot of them in the off season now are powerlifting Yeah, because they're seeing the gains that they're getting, and especially their butt and hamstrings, you know, from some of the I've watched that change just just in the last five to six years. That's changed a lot. When I first came on the scene and I was getting ready to compete, even the both guys and girls, you didn't see deadlifting. Deadlifting was a thing that supposedly made your waist bigger. So everybody avoided it. I remember like feeling so like here I am. Like in the gym that we were at, there were so many competitors. There's a lot. There's probably at all times that I was lifting in there, at least three to five other amateurs and pros in the men's category and probably at least seven to 10 bikini girls that would always be in the gym. So we'd always be around each other and I'd be the guy by myself over there squatting and deadlifting. Everybody looking at me all crazy. Why I wasn't wearing a squeam and not concerned about my waist blowing a squeam. Yeah, dude, I still can't believe that. That's just like that caught on with dudes. It's still a thing, man. It's still and you know, it's funny because I I at one point, I thought it'd be a funny thing to create other accounts and like false accounts. Oh yeah, I remember that. Dude, I ran across this like it was suggested to me. I'm like it was my own creation. It was called it like hourglass dudes. I just took all the pictures on the internet. I could find with these guys like wearing those those waist trainers and trying to, you know, just modify them and justify it. I'm just like, this needs to be on on front. They're like, you know, how can we make, you know, bodybuilding and physique something that people can make fun of even more? Oh, I know. Let's wear a corset and make our muscles atrophy around our waist. Do you remember Adam when you, because I know I'm pretty sure Justin learned the lifts like the big compound lifts because he was in football, in which case, luckily football, they never, you know, it was it was always in to squat and do those lifts because they were so functional. Yeah, just not deadlifting, but yeah. Yeah, you, well, you guys, it cleans. Yeah, a lot of, yeah. So you're still getting that hit. Yeah, Adam, do you remember when you first really got introduced to like deadlifts and barbell squats? When you first were like, huh, this might be something. Well, okay. So barbell squats, I was, I was introduced to early, but still avoided them like the plague. So I was like, I was probably two years into my training career as a trainer and I had a, I was lifting with these old school, like, you know, old school bodybuilder power lifter type guys, like just gym rats. They were good 15 years older than I was, 22. Oh, okay. You know, and I remember, and I've told this story before where he'd, he'd stack like three plates, you know, I mean, at that time I could barely squat like 135. It's like, yeah, I want you to feel the weight. So you just hold it. Yeah, he'd just have me hold it or they would spot me all the way down and back up, but he would be totally carrying me the whole way, but he wanted me to feel the weight and anytime that I would do it on my own, it was just my back would flare up so bad. And I knew that they were good for me and I was being told that I needed to do it, but I would, honestly, I rarely ever squatted. I was the leg press and lunge and machine gun. You just didn't know how to really work on mobility and the issues of why. Yeah, I just, you know, at that early years of my training career, I just, you know, it bothered me and that's why I didn't really train it with my clients. I was like, well, man, I'm a fitness trainer and it bothers my back. So I would fall for the excuse for my clients. My clients would say, oh, I have a bad back. Okay, so we didn't squat. Yeah, because you're like me too. Yeah, me too. That's how I felt about it. And I never deadlifted. Deadlifting, and I think it was a certification. And I don't remember what cert I was going through, reading the benefits of it and the programming of deadlifting. And then I began to start to do it. But even then, back then I was such a form and technique guy that I would never like push the weight. I never deadlifted less than like 10 reps. I was doing, I was a 10 rep guy in deadlifts, real lightweight, 135, maybe I pushed 225. It wasn't until you and I, did I start to push the weight in deadlifting? So I never really tried to get strong in the deadlift or really strong in squats. They were very sporadically put in my program. Even when I kind of knew that I should be doing it, I still kind of fell prey to the, oh, it bothers my back and I'm not very good at it. It wasn't until later on, until like we met, which was about seven years ago when we first started talking, that I started to really start to push the weight in deadlifting and get, and then also address why it was bothering me. Like when I squatted. Like I didn't really care about. Yeah, it's crazy. Cause you turned yourself into a good squatter. You didn't just fix the issues. You're actually a really good squatter now, which is a huge change. I wouldn't say I'm a really good squatter. You're a really good squatter, dude. When you, you know, before you really worked on mobility, you had squats cause problems for you. Yeah, yeah. And it was, it was, I definitely was an awful squatter. I mean, I look back at the pictures of like how I was squatting and stuff before. And it looked, it looked painful. And it's, it took a long time. It took a lot of work on working on the mobility. And I would definitely say I've, I've made a ton of progress from where I was, but that's also what has now made me fall in love with those movements is I have put a tremendous amount of work in both those movements for the last seven years or so. And I still feel like there's so much more for me to get out of it because I'm constantly adjusting and tweaking and improving the mobility and the control. They, they, they're the exercises that keep giving. And it's one of the biggest myths in resistance training in general is that the exercises are all relatively equal. This one works your back. So does this one pretty much the same, just pick the one you like or whatever. Not true. Exercises are not equal. Some just produce tremendous results while others, you know, take a lot longer to produce results. And I feel, so for me, I feel very blessed because at a young age, you know, 16 years old, working out at the YMCA, seeing the big power lifter guys using the one squat rack and just watching them. And then they took me through a workout. They taught me how to squat. They taught me how to deadlift back then. I deadlifted Sumo because that's the way that they taught me as a kid. And that was the summer before either junior year or sophomore, I think it was junior year, right? And at this point, I'd already been lifting weights or working out for a couple of years. So I started as a young kid. That summer, I gained almost 15 pounds of muscle. It was like, I got stretch marks. I blew up, my legs grew, my back grew, went back to school and all the kids were like, oh man, you know, first time ever, anybody ever said, I look like I worked out. And it was because I did those lifts. Well, you know, you guys are both like strength guys, right? You guys talk a lot about that. And I cared more about how I looked. And so I did so much of the bodybuilder isolation exercise for so long. What I think really sold me on forever after this squatting and deadlifting, being the foundation of my training was that I realized I was doing way less and my body looked better than what it was when I was, I mean, I was a seven day a week, hammered tons of exercises, tons of volume in the gym, but I was doing the leg extensions, the leg press, the lateral raise machines and the shoulder press machines. And I was that guy, I was the bodybuilder guy. And that's what I, and then all of a sudden I started to really focus on like the four big lifts and then no workout ever did not include at least one, if not all of them in the training. And I felt like that's all I had to do and I had as good or a better physique than all this other shit. That's what sold me. Yeah, so funny. It's the irony of it is I was completely focused on the strength aspect and just following coach's orders and like going through the workouts with the team and just trying to produce as much strength as possible. Meanwhile, the first time I actually take my shirt off and I'm playing basketball, you know, I get a girl to compliment me on my chest and my abs and all this stuff. And I'm like, what? Like I had no idea that, you know, my body was transforming so much. And that actually is what led me into like bodybuilder style training. So then I started to actually be like, oh, well, I can, you know, I can get compliments. This is cool. Bro, when you're a, you're near a teenage guy or in your 20s and a girl gives you a compliment, you're gonna, like, you ever have a, I remember a girl complimented my cologne. What do you think I wore forever after that, right? Yeah, still to this day. Yeah, the single girl said she liked the way I smell. Oh, this is the cologne I'm gonna wear now. It's still all the time. I like cool water. I like your shirt, you know, mom, can you buy me 10 of these shirts? Can someone compliment me? Anyway, I was, so I did some interesting reading yesterday. I wanted to talk to you guys about something I wasn't fully aware of. So, you know, we had a call with the founders of Ned the other day, right? They were talking about, they have their- They're a brand new product. They have their new product. I can't remember the name of it. Mellow, thank you. And you, you know, it's good to relax the body, maybe before bed, all that stuff. And they talked about magnesium. And I'd heard that magnesium deficiency was relatively common, but I wasn't really familiar with- Is it like 60%, is that what it is? So, 75% of Americans probably don't meet the daily requirements for magnesium. As much as a quarter of Americans probably meet the standards for a true magnesium deficiency. Now you ask, why, why is that? A lot of it has to do with the fact that the soil is- Yeah, it's so depleted, right? So we, the way we use soil to grow things, we figured out that we could throw things in the soil to make it grow plants, but we don't do anything else to the soil. So it's still lacking lots of nutrients. So eating, you know, magnesium fruit, excuse me, magnesium rich foods today versus, I don't know, 50 years ago, it's still gonna have like 50% or more less magnesium than it did 50 years ago. It's just, we just don't have a lot of in it, in our food anymore. Not only that, but if you're when you're under a lot of chronic stress, your body depletes magnesium and a lot of stuff. So, almost 75% of all of us are probably not meeting our minimum requirements. Do you guys know what the signs of magnesium deficiency are? No, Terry. So I'm gonna pull them up because I thought this was fascinating. And a lot of us kind of- Muscle twitches and things like that. Muscle twitches and cramps, which, you know, I'm not gonna lie, this happens to me all the time. All the time, like my eye will twitch or I'll get an exercise, the muscle will cramp a little bit. So that's one that's common. All kinds of mental disorders are a result from lack of magnesium, including and especially anxiety. So a lot of times people feel anxious. Physical anxiety can come from not having enough magnesium. Of course, bone issues, osteoporosis, magnesium is important for that. You have fatigue and muscle weakness. So people who are tired can't figure out why they're so fatigued. Oftentimes it could be just a lack of magnesium. High blood pressure is another one. Asthma, this is this one I didn't know, which is kind of interesting. Irregular heartbeat, that's another one that sometimes I'll get. So supplementing with magnesium can make a big difference. The thing with magnesium though is not all forms are very easily absorbed, right? So in the product that Ned has, they chose three forms of magnesium, one of which crosses the blood-brain barrier. So it's really good for relaxing, for anxiety, that kind of stuff. So really good stuff, really interesting. When they do studies like this and they take things like soil and then they say that it's deficient in magnesium, are we not also taking into account how many farmers those supplement with that? So like, I mean, my experience is mostly with marijuana and tomatoes and things like that, but that's a common supplement that you actually have to put in a T for the plants because it's not getting enough magnesium. So they're testing the food and the soil when they're ready to grow, so not before, right? But even when you supplement, it's still not the same because they'll put the minimum required to cause the plants to grow. It's not like it was before, but nonetheless, at the end of the day, again, and this is health line that I'm reading the statistics from, a good chunk of us are not getting enough magnesium and it's subtle, right? So you just say, I don't feel so good. I'm kind of anxious or I feel kind of tired or whatever. And magnesium, if you supplement with it, you get the right form, can produce a pretty good effect. Yeah, I just remember hearing like with farming and like rotating the crops in different areas of the land, like it was like the super crucial. And I don't know if that was like a lost thing with industrial farming or not, but like somewhere along the lines, like we started to kind of lose a lot of the nutrients from the soil and keep reusing the same land over and over again without replenishing it. I saw a thing one time that was like, they showed like a potato or a tomato from like the 30s or something like that and they compared the nutrient value of it. And it's like, we're less than like half of what it was just like the top soil like runs off and goes into the rivers and all. You talked about this with Dr. Bush, right? Yeah, yeah, so we've also are basically spraying the ground with antibiotics in essence when we spray them with glyphosate. So glyphosates are chemicals that kill weeds and then we modify plants to resist these particular sprays so we could spray a bunch of corn crops, kills the weeds the corn survives, but the glyphosates actually can kill bacteria. So we're actually killing lots of the natural bacteria. I've never heard someone say that like antibiotics. Is that something that is widely known now? Like, I mean, I feel like more and more people are privy to antibiotics and our gut and how it's not an ideal thing, right? Just maybe what, 10, 15 years ago, everybody was on that bandwagon, something goes wrong, take antibiotics, kill it all. Oh yeah, when I was a kid, you go to the doctor, doctors throw antibiotics at anything. But I feel like the audience and the masses are privy to that. Now, is that widely known with what's going on with? So I'm using the term antibiotics very, very loosely. So it's not like an antibiotic where it just destroys all bacteria, but it does interfere with a pathway that antibiotics need to, excuse me, that bacteria need to survive. I think it's called the, I don't remember the name of it, sycamati or something like that, it's a weird name, but it interferes with bacteria. And so it can start to kill the bacteria over time. And we're spraying, you know, the ground with like, you know, millions and millions of gallons of the stuff all the time. Sounds like stigmati. So the ground is just becoming, you know, more and more sterile. And then on top of it, we breed, you know, plants to be higher, to be tastier. So they typically have more sugar, less nutrients, right? So, you know, if you look at like an apple today versus, you know, hundreds of years ago, apples back then were like full of seeds and fiber, not very much flesh. Now it's like a big sugar bomb apple and it's like this big or whatever. So it's like, you know, we're changing things to the point where supplementing, I used to think if you ate really well, then you probably don't need to supplement. But I'm starting to realize that in some cases you might still need to supplement like vitamin D or magnesium, for example. It's just so common. Well, do you think that because we're continuing to do that, and it seems like the soil is becoming more and more depleted over time, that it's gonna be more common that people are having to supplement for a lot of these things. Absolutely, we'll have to fortify food like we do with, you know, like salt. You know, they put iodine and salt, you know? They fortify everything these days. Yeah. Yeah, before they put it in the market. I got a fun fact for you guys. This is just like a real quick fun fact. What do you think is the website or I know what your guys answer is gonna be, but what do you guys think the website that you go to that you are most likely to get a virus from? A virus from? Porn hub, of course. Yeah, so that's what I would think. Oh, like porn sites, no? Yeah, no, religious sites. Oh my gosh. Can you believe that? Is that true? That's a fact. Check me. My mind was blown. Now, is it the religious sites themselves were created so that people could spread viruses or because they're just not super secure and so? That might be a part of it. I don't know. Honestly, I don't know what the inner workings are, you know, the story behind that, but that just blew my mind. I was like, what? I always thought it was porn. Where did you read that? That's super interesting. Yeah, I was wondering on those like weird, you know, fun facts that like a lot of people don't know. I would never guess that. Well, you know, it makes sense if you think about it. Yeah, what's your theory on that? Well, I mean, like the established porn sites, probably it's like in their best interest to not, because the stigma, right? Well, I mean, I would still bet porn hub is number two. Yeah, I'm sure it's up there. Yeah, because anytime I, if I didn't, I tell you what, Apple is the only thing I could watch porn on because if I watch it on a fucking, on a PC, you're getting a virus, dude. Have you ever talked to any IT guy, like you're bringing your laptop in and you're like, he fixes like, oh, you had a porn problem. Yeah, he never, he never says, were you searching church sites? Yeah, he never says that. So I don't, I didn't know that. That's so random. Oh, that's strange. So what's your theory on that? I don't know. I feel like maybe their site's just, they don't spend a lot of money on securing them or something. I have no idea. Yeah, but I think the virus means that somebody is actually taking the time to put bugs in that, right? In order to do that. I don't know if it's bombing it with the, yeah, malware or whatever. Yeah, I don't think it's the actual, like people who made the site themselves. Unless they're like fake sites. No, no, no, that'd be other people, right? Isn't that what even does on the porn? It's not like Pornhub is the one. Dude, that's like a cyber attack. That reminds me, when Doug and I made some of our first sites for, was it MapSantaBalloc that this happened, Doug? Yes. So when we first created MapSanta, it was before MimePump, right? We created a website and somebody hacked it and it was porn. So you type in whatever the site was, I don't remember what it was, MapSantaBalloc. I don't remember what it was. This program just got awesome. Yeah, and you know how I found out? I sent it to my aunt. So I'm like, oh, check out our new website. And she's like, did you mean to send this to me? And I clicked on it, I'm like, and I text Doug. I'm like, what the fuck? Don't you guys remember when we first started MimePump? My Facebook page was bigger than anything else. And I had to just let it go. Remember, in case he tried to figure it out, he tried to get it all off and we couldn't. So I just let that page go. I could not. That's right, there's a Facebook page out there with your picture on it, that's not you. Yeah, and all it is is like porn videos, though. All it is. You open it up and that's all it is on that entire. We tried so hard to hack back into it and to clean it all up. And I just said, effort, forget it. But at one point that was bigger than Instagram or anything else. I had like a, I don't know, I want to say 20, 40,000 followers somewhere in that range on Facebook. And I was doing Facebook first before I was doing Instagram. And that was my main source of contacts. And then it got hacked and it was like, oh shit. So I'll never, never get that back. So many people build businesses now off of like one Instagram page or one Facebook page. Yeah. And when it gets hacked, you're pretty much screwed, right? There's no, who do you call? Yeah, what do you do? Like what do you do? Didn't this just happen to our buddy? Yeah, and he just got it back. I saw he got it back. So you have to file with like Instagram or Facebook and then tell them, okay, somebody else has got control. Meanwhile, they could just destroy your audience in the short period of time. Yeah, well, and so what I noticed, so speaking of who you're talking about, Justin, I've been watching to see like his, and his engagement is like through the floor now. Because in that small window that somebody had hacked him and they were trying to promote what was it, they were promoting some. There was some supplement or something? Yeah, they were selling. Was it like cryptocurrency stuff? Yes, it was like crypto mining. That's right. Yeah, give us $800 and we'll help you mine 3,000 Bitcoin or some shit. So they were using his page for like a week or so to do that. And then now he's got it back, but then I look at when he does a post and it's like terrible engagement. So I'm sure he lost a majority of the people that were paying attention to it. And then I also don't know what the algorithm, what happens to the Instagram algorithm because that thing's all automated. So maybe it picks up what they're doing and then all of a sudden it kind of shadow bans him a little bit. Yeah, just it's crazy. Yeah, especially if you get that popular in one platform and then you get excited about that and you want to put like a lot more effort in just that direction. But then you're at the whim of something like that happening and then now what do you do? You don't have a backup already. I don't know if it was us being a bunch of older wise guys or just dumb luck, just paranoid. But it was something that I think that we were really cautious about when we built this. Like it was, I remember that was part of the motivation of also doing all the other. Like remember when we first get going, like having YouTube channels, having the podcast place, having all our individual Instagrams. Just so we have a foot there. Yeah, and just in case something happened to one of them that we weren't like married to that one channel as our outlet to get to people. So I mean, I'm glad we did because you know, that was the smartest thing to do is if you build your business off of one platform to somehow capture your audience in a way that's secure. So emails, you know, something, because if that goes down, or if you get, if they change the algorithm or you get shadow banned or you get hacked, at least you can email your list and be like, hey, this is what happened. You can come find, well, otherwise you're screwed. They can't find, they don't know how to find you. You have no way of getting in contact with them and your business is dead. And even though emails can get hacked too, they say that's one of the safest bets for you to do is to just get, you know, and which member at the beginning, we didn't think that either. We thought email was dead. Ironically email most valuable. You know, it is. And to this day, for the business of all the things that we do, email is still the most valuable part of it. It blows my mind. So crazy. I wanted to revisit a conversation that we were just having the other day. I told you guys, you had brought up the supplement, Sal. Oh, you mean the drug? The drug, the fat loss drug. And I had told you that I remembered a post that just a couple of days before that I had seen the doctor, Spencer Nadalski, I think is how you pronounce it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I know, and I said that you got, you guys had gone back and forth. I think I've gone back and forth with him a few times because there's some things that he says that we don't agree with. There's a lot of stuff he does say that we do agree with. And I wanted you to read his post. Did you get a chance to read it? Yeah, so I have it in front of me. So he's talking about the drug. I don't know if I'm saying it right. It's semi-glutide. And it is the first, like really effective weight loss drug that we've seen. I talked about the statistics in a previous episode, but a significant portion of the people who took this drug lost weight. And the reason why they lost the weight is it effectively controls appetite. So they just ate less is what ended up happening. So he did a post about the drug and he's talking about how it was introduced as a type two diabetes treatment and it's been studied for obesity due its powerful appetite suppressing effects. And then he says, you know, I know there are many out there who feel these drugs are not needed because all people have to do is eat less. Of course we need to eat fewer calories and we burn. However, there are many with obesity to where the appetite drivers are too strong when trying to lose weight. To combat this, we have medicines like this to help. They're a tool just like anything else. And he says, also many ask if they need to be used long-term and if you stop, will you gain the weight back? The answer is usually yes. Think of obesity as a disease. We wouldn't stop blood pressure medicine just because someone has normal blood pressure after starting the medicine. The same with obesity. Of course, there are lifestyle behavioral changes which may occur while using the medicine which can combat the appetite drives. But many will have the continued appetite drive after stopping. By the way, this medicine is now the most powerful one we have. So he's talking about that. And then at the end, he says, bottom line, if this new medicine makes you uneasy, you may have an anti-obesity bias. I'm not a fan of that statement. That's a very bold statement. There's a couple of things here I have a problem with. Obesity as a disease. I don't know if I can, you know, I think we label everything a disease nowadays because it encourages- It allows you to create a drug for it. Yes. If it's a disease, well, now we have a drug that can solve it. The other thing too with drugs like this that blunt your appetite, we've talked about this. Actually, we did bring this up when we talked about it. Yes, you'll eat less and you will lose weight as a result. But the reason why you were eating the way you did doesn't go away, right? So if you're 60 pounds overweight, well, I used to tell this to clients all the time, at some point you were 15 pounds overweight, at another point you were 30 pounds overweight, 40 pounds, 50 pounds. Now you're at 60 pounds overweight. You ignore the signs because you're using food as a way to self-medicate for something, whether it's anxiety, depression, bored. Maybe you just don't know how to deal with the feeling of cravings, whatever that may be. And if you don't solve that problem, it's still there. So now your appetite's down, but you're still sad or bored or whatever, you tend to replace it with other things. Or you just don't become happy. I lost weight but I still feel the same way I did before. Yeah, one of those, so he also made another statement in there, it was like, there may or may not be behavioral lifestyle changes that occur going through, taking this drug and that to me is, it's almost like an afterthought, right? So it's not on the forefront of pursuit of really addressing the behavior and the lifestyle like leading into this, it's here's the solution and then oh yeah, this might happen along the way which would be great, but also you could just stay on this drug which to me creates this dependency on something exogenous to bring in instead of really addressing the behavior. Well, I would love to see how many people actually make behavioral changes while using a drug like this. Yeah, I would like to see that. I would like, and you know they'll never do a study like that because it's not gonna support the drug. It's not gonna show, I can just guess and be probably pretty accurate that more than 80% of them are not gonna change, it may even be higher than that. You're gonna see people using the drug to get down to that weight and that's gonna be something they become dependent on the rest of their life because they never addressed. Cause here, you guys remember training these clients. How many of them like you just told them, hey, there's a reason why we're here, what is it? And they were like, oh, this is the reason why. And I'm working on it and I'm going to therapy for it. Like that never happened. It rarely ever happened. It's been a long time for them to divulge that. Yeah, and even get to that place or what they a lot of times think it's the weight that's making them feel so depressed. And how many times we talked about this on the show that you're never gonna be happy if you don't address what makes you feel that way. It's not the weight. It's not being 60 or 80. That's a symptom. Yes. And so you throwing drugs at this, I'm just, and I'm with you, Sal. I'm not a fan of the obesity thing being a disease. I'm just, I don't subscribe to that. And I know why the medical community does. Obesity causes diseases. But it's a symptom of your actions. It's not something you catch. It's not a, you know, it's- It exaggerates, probably. And you can say this and be empathetic at the same time. Oh yeah. Because what I don't like is the defense right of, oh, you guys are shaming these people and- No, that's ridiculous. No, get out of here with that bullshit. No, anti-obesity bias is ridiculous. I've worked my entire career helping people with obesity. I care very deeply about helping people through that process. So that's ridiculous. Look, I don't think we should take the drug off the market. But you know, here's what Western Medicine does really well. It reminds me, I'll give you guys an example. I had a client that illustrated this so beautifully. She was older. I think she was at the time in her late 70s. And I was gonna start training her and I got, I wanted to get clearance from her doctor because she hadn't worked out ever and she had some health issues. And so whenever I have a situation like that, I like to work with the doctor personally. So I had the doctor send me a list of medications that she's on and tell me what she shouldn't do and all that stuff, right? I get this list of medications, okay? I'm not exaggerating. It was two pages long. You're talking like 20 different medications. Now here's the crazy part. Half of the medications. Counteract all the symptoms. They were to other drugs. If you take this drug, you have constipation. So you can take this drug to help you poop. Half the drugs were there to fight the side effects of the other drug. Oh, this one makes me drowsy. So I'm taking this one to help me stay awake. This one makes me constipated. So I have to take this one to help me poop. This one hurts my appetite. This one helps. It was insane. And so this is what Western medicine tends to do is we're gonna give you a drug on top of a drug on top of a drug. So what's the problem? The problem is we have just totally distorted eating behaviors. We have bad relationships with food. We don't understand this at all. We're very inactive. Here's a drug to help with that. I guarantee the drug will cost something. They're gonna have to give them something mouth. Hey, my depression is still here. I lost the 30 pounds but I'm still depressed now. Well, here's an antidepressant. Well now it's hard for me to get a boner because the antidepressant, oh, here's something to help you with your boner. Oh, well, now it just keeps going. You know what it reminds me of as far as a visual and cartoons when they're at a dam and you see a crack and you see one stream of water coming out and then they plug that one stream of water. Now another one comes out and then they're plugging that one and then a bunch of them over here. And they're just constantly plugging holes when all they had to do was reinforce the dam. And I wanna make it clear too that we, and we talked about this last time, but you know, if you were somebody who's in a life or death situation. Of course. I'm all four things like this. If I've got a client who's at 400 pounds and Doc says, listen, you've got a less than a year to live unless we address this and we gotta get this off. Here is this incredible drug that has lots of research behind it that shows that it's going to work and this is gonna help us get that first 100 pounds off and then we can start working on your behavioral stuff. I understand there but what I know ends up happening in Western medicine is anybody that's capable to prescribe that to gets prescribed that. And we're gonna have the same thing that we have with like people doing the stomach staple. It's like, if you are at this weight you automatically qualify it, forget the fact of trying to adjust the behavior stuff first and really getting to the root cause. Let's just throw a drug at it right away. That's the way it works. What's the symptom? Create a drug to solve the symptom. Oh, your head hurts. Here's medication to make your headache go away but I'm not gonna ask you why your head hurts. Who knows? You can be banging your head against the wall every morning and I have no idea but here's a painkiller for your headache. Do you guys remember what was the first thing that we disagree with him that he was promoting? I do. No, was it meal replacement? Yes, it was shakes. It was the whole protein shakes. Instead of eating. Yeah, instead of eating and I remember training clients like this that's like that never fucking lasts. You have a person that has a behavioral issues with eating and you throw shakes at them for a while? Very common weight loss clinics. I mean that's how they treat a lot of these things let's reduce the calories down to basically nothing but it's managed by doctors and whatnot but it's just really aggressive intervention where this stuff just takes a lot of time. Here's what I'll say and I'll make this statement and I'll stand behind it. You take the Western medicine medical community and their track record against obesity is shit. They have a terrible track record against obesity. I'm talking about long term not just getting them to lose the weight. That's easy. Like you said, Adam, here's your shakes. It's 1200 calories a day. Yeah, you can lipo suck it if you have them too. No, no, no. I'm talking about long term success. The Western medicine medical community terrible, terrible, terrible track record. Now let's take them and let's have them compete against good trainers and good wellness coaches and let's see you has a better track record. Now which one uses drugs? Which one uses all the latest technology and medicines? And which one uses behavior? Which one works with exercise? And which one again has the better track record? So if you have a weight loss issue, if you have a weight problem, if you're dealing with obesity and this is something that you've been challenged with for a long time, who should you go to? The doctor who fails almost every single time long term or you can go work with a coach who has tremendous success rates in comparison. Now, again, I'm not gonna lie. The success rates are not 90% in any category but they're far better. And again, the Western medicine approach terrible and we're still dealing with it today. Obesity is still a big killer. Here's more evidence. What was that company that came out with that procedure where they attached a tube to your stomach? This is a real, look this up. This is a real thing. Maybe Doug can find the name of it while I'm... Aspire assist I believe. Aspire assist. Don't remember that, huh? Literally, this is a approved treatment for obesity and this is what it is. It's like stomach bulimia. It is a tube attached to your stomach. After you eat, you go to the bathroom and you empty the stomach out into the toilet. So rather than making yourself throw up, you open the tube up and this is approved. Yeah, who makes that decision? And how can you sleep at night, dude? I don't know. Come on. Yeah, that's crazy stuff. Are you serious? Hey, I wanted a total terrible transition but I brought up the Maryland thing the other day and then there's also some... Oh, right. So Maryland, what's the deal with Maryland? They're gonna do like a tax on... Yeah, they wanna do like a 10% tax on any sort of digital advertising that goes through their state, right? And now you also have South Dakota's in a battle right now with Google and Apple don't wanna give up 30% of their app sales that are going on. So right now if you have... So if you build a business in... Where is it? South Dakota. Then you have to give them 30% of your... Well, that's everywhere. Right now, if we built an app right now and we put it out and we sell it for 3.99 and you put it out on Apple or Google's platform, they get their 30% cut. That's just how it works. And it's been like that for everybody. You're starting to get states now that are starting to try and pass bills to push back on that and say, they don't wanna give up their money. So Apple can't get the 30%? Is that what that is? Yeah. Oh, interesting. Now, who gets it then? Are they saying you don't get it so we can tax it later? No, they get it. Yeah, they get it. So I think what we're seeing is happening is just a big pushback from all the states against... I mean, we've seen like, it's just a... I mean, here's the pendulum swinging back, right? Tech has gotten away with so much and they got so much control and they're influencing so much. Now you're starting to see some of these states push back and here's an example how they can push back. Yeah, I saw Florida too, trying to create laws and legislate for social media in terms of what kind of content they're putting out and how they're going through that and making sure it's fact-checked and all these types of things. Yeah, so first off, if it makes money... Well, here we go. If it moves, if it breathes, if it walks, if it exists, they'll find a way to tax it. That's just the way government works. If it makes money, at some point, they're like, how can we figure out a way to take some of this money? So that's number one. Number two, and we all said this on the podcast, the era of free, kind of open social media, it's over. It's totally over. When you see both political parties go after them, when you see the accusations of them influencing elections and corruption, all this other stuff, you know what's gonna follow, because what they're doing is they're drumming up public support, what's gonna follow our strong controls and regulations. So it's just matter of time. Look how big these companies got. It's insane how big they are and how powerful they are. A course that makes the government like shudder and they wanna do something about it. Yeah, so it's like they're gonna fight against them, apparently. This is gonna be interesting. Yeah, Amazon just bought sales, SELZ, which is Shopify's competitor, too, now. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the thing, too, about these. They're so massive, they can buy up these other companies that are just other gateways and just control more avenues of revenue that are coming through. Yeah, but you know, the thing, too, is when we look at this and this happens with any big industry, we forget or we take for granted what they've provided and it just looks like a big company now that we need to attack or whatever. Tech has revolutionized the economy. It's created opportunities. Well, we choose to use it. That's right. And it's created opportunities that would have never existed. Could you imagine the most jobs? And could you imagine a pandemic shutdowns without DoorDash, Amazon, without all these companies that were making life okay while shutting stores down until you can't go anywhere? It would have been impossible, right? So, I mean, they've brought some amazing things, but they're big and so that makes them a target now. Speaking of that, you talk about the pandemic and the things that we wouldn't be able to survive with Instacart is probably one of the things I use more than anything else and they have an IPO in this quarter coming up, so keep your eye open for that one right there. That's gonna be huge. I think so too. Them and then what was the other one, Coinbase? Yeah, Coinbase. That's a good one. Dude, I got some big news. Magic Spoon's now available in Canada. Oh, finally. I saw that. How many DMs have you gotten about it? Like, I've always felt like my heart breaks a little, you know, I'm just like, oh, you guys are missing out. Yeah. You know, all he connects. So, I think and I believe that we're one of the, I think we're formally announcing it first because they emailed their audience that is from Canada, right? So, they emailed, any email they had from Canada, they emailed and let them know personally, but I don't think there's been a public announcement. So, we have a ton of people in Canada that listen to the show that we've all been getting personal DMs going, when in the hell are you guys gonna be able to carry both ButcherBox and Magic Spoon don't go up there. Well, Magic Spoon does now, so. They're gonna crush. Yeah. And I think that they obviously are crushing. It's probably, their word is spreading. Their growth is exploding right now with their product. They made it into the fitness influencers too now. You know that when we, which I know people try and throw us in that category, I absolutely hate that category. I hate being called an influencer. Dude, dirty words. Yeah, I think of like Instagram influencer kids that are, but they've now made their way into them. I see them all over now, all these other big accounts that are fitness influencers that are all now chomping down the Magic Spoon. Oh, wow. Another cool brand that I know that we brought in. Well, talk about like a great way to like hit your macros and eat like good, you know, delicious cereal. Like of course it's gonna explode, you know, with all that. Yeah, who doesn't like that? Hey, I read a cool study on how to appear honest when you're talking. What? Yeah, so they did this study. I'm gonna pull it up real quick. You need someone to tell you how to do that. That's already a right plan for me. And then you were supposed to add a peer when you're lying, is that what it is? Or is it like? No, no, so. Is this like those authenticity masterminds? Well, so there's a couple of things. So when you, and if you study politics and you watch debates and you study who is more effective, it's always the person that speaks and sounds more confident that wins the debate, even though they could be lying the entire time. This is what made Obama so famous. Yeah, well. One of the best speakers of all time. He's very stately and polished. Yeah, calm and whatever. And if you can talk with confidence, even though you're full of shit, oftentimes people watching will just, they'll believe you over the other person. Well, also when someone asks you a question, if you pause before you reply, even if it's just for a few seconds, your answer is perceived to be less sincere, incredible, than if you had replied immediately. So if someone asks you, if you're ever trying to get away with a lie, I guess, someone asks you a question, answer. Like right away. Like right away, yeah. It's just top of mind. That's so funny, because I'm trying to train myself to be the opposite. I'm so quick to just respond, right? What's going through my head, which I've, over time, I've learned that's when shit flies out that probably shouldn't fly out. So I'm in a place now where I'm like, pause. Just because you think you have the answer right away, Adam, or you have something you want to say, pause. It's okay. Long pauses are okay. So that's really funny, that. It is because it's good. That's a good practice. It's a good practice to wait and measure your words and say what you mean, especially now that everything's recorded nowadays. You're a lot more likely to get an honest answer that way, which is the hilarious that that's recommended to me, because it's like, well, also the telltale signs somebody lying, right? They're going to kind of like look up to the side of their eyes. Is that true? Yeah, they look up to the side. Have you ever read a neuro-linguistic book? Yeah, they talk about it's up and to the left, Justin. That means I'm lying? Yeah. If I look up to the left? So if I look up to the right, I'm telling you. It's because you're not, I've tested this and it's definitely one of those things that's held. It's because the, it's the side of your brain that's logical, right? So you have the logical and the creative side and that's why it does. The eyes roll to the side that's the creative side because you're trying. Close your eyes. Because you're trying to come up with a new answer. Yeah, story. You're trying to make a story up in your head to give you an answer versus the logical side. So if it rolls to one side, you're trying to think of something and like come up with it versus just answer. Did I ever tell you the time when I thought, I had a front desk staff member and I thought that they did something they weren't supposed to and I brought them in my office with my operations manager and I set up before I asked them this whole conversation but I must have made them so nervous. So I sat there and I said, you know, I really respect you. How do you like working here? I love it. Sal is a great place. You know, we develop a lot of trust in our team and this is what this team is built on. So just whole talk and they're sitting there sweating and then I asked them, is there anything that you want to tell me? You need to tell me. And I was expecting them to say, I remember what it was, but it was something silly like, yeah, I let people, you know, my friends work out for free or whatever and this person sat there and just, they were selling babysitting for cash in the kids club. They were stealing protein bars and I'm sitting there trying to pretend like I already knew all the stuff. I'm like, yeah, well, I'm glad you're telling me. Thank you very much for, I'm sitting there like, holy shit. This is all coming out. What's going on here? I remember the operations manager was like, man, you're like an interior. How did you get them? I had no idea. I was like, you really broke them in there. It's terrible. First question is from Mr. Kennedy. Can you talk about the different deadlift variations? Traditional sumo, touch and go, Romanian deadlift and the benefits of each. Should you vary them up? Should you vary them up? That sounds like you're gonna say some more stuff. Should we vary them up? You know, sometimes one of the challenges with exercises is that if they have a similar name, all the same names. I'm glad you're going this way. Yeah, you end up thinking that they're all interchangeable. So like front squat, Bulgarian split stand squat, back squat, you think, oh, they're all squats. So I'll just pick one and do that one. The truth is they're all different exercises. Same thing with the deadlift. Very different too. It's not even, I mean, some are like similar, but very, very different. Yeah, and with deadlifts, it's even worse because the powerlifting community, which is the one strength sport that really emphasizes deadlifts more than any other strength sport, right? Cause it's in their competition. They allow you to deadlift conventional or sumo. Doesn't matter. Those both count the same when you're doing your deadlift. And so people have, you know, they've assumed that they're kind of interchangeable. The reality is they're all different exercises. Some of them are more similar than the others, but they're all different, right? A sumo deadlift and a traditional conventional deadlift, although both count in powerlifting. They are different on the body. They work the body totally different. Just because you're good at one doesn't necessarily mean you're gonna be good at the other one. And then they get very different. Like a Romanian deadlift or a stiff legged deadlift. Very different from a conventional deadlift and a sumo deadlift. So should you vary them? Absolutely. I think you totally should. I think it's a good idea to get good at one. And then once you get real good at it, you can transfer and move to another one. It's okay to have your favorite. You know, my favorite is conventional. That's the way I love to deadlift. But I'll throw in sumo and trap bar deadlifts all the time and I'll go through runs of training those to get really good at those. Romanian deadlifts, that's a leg workout. You know, that one I do in my leg workout. I don't do it in my back workout like I do conventional. Well, and I think that something that we say ad nauseam on this show is that the one that's going to benefit you the most is the one that you do the least. So if you're somebody who's, if you deadlift consistently but you always do conventional, sumo deadlifting for a while is going to be great, great for strength gains, great for body composition, great for fat burning. I mean, that is where you should go. If you train a certain way all the time, then mixing up, the only time it makes sense to do the same one all the time for me is if I'm training an actual competitor. Yeah, they have to get good at that one. Yeah, like if I have so, and that doesn't mean I'll never intermittently still use the opposite. So if I have someone who pulls sumo and that's what they pull at their competition, we are going to pull sumo 90% of the time, maybe 95% of the time. Still will do some other other way, forms of deadlifting intermittently in there, but we want to be good at that movement because that's what they're going to go performing. Everybody else though, if you're just trying to get strong or you want to be healthy and fit or you want to change the way your body looks, the best thing you could possibly do is actually rotate through these. And how do you rotate through those? You know, there's no like one rule on how you have to do it. I personally like to keep one of those for sure always in my routine, if not one or two of those. And I'll stick to that for at least four to eight weeks before I rotate another one in. Exactly, that's exactly the way I do it. Yeah, and I think too, like there's, you know, if I'm going for a different, what they call adaptations. So if I'm going for something where I'm more power focused, I'm more speed focused, for instance, I'm going to be more likely to do like a touch and go. And that's something that fits within my programming. And so I'll look at, you know, the options of what types of exercises will fit best within the actual program itself. Or if I want to move in different directions or, you know, really expose my body to different types of stimulus and movement and I'll do something like if I never do sumo, then I'm going to switch it up and I'm going to rotate that in the programming. But I want to look at this as like, these are all different types of tools that fit great within, you know, this sort of pursuit that I have. So I'm glad you brought up touch and go because I would say touch and go is my least favorite of all these. That's the one you need to have the most control and best skill. And it also makes the most sense, I would say, in only situation that Justin just mentioned, like you're really trying to work on the speed of a movement versus the strength of that movement or getting good at that movement. Because touch and go, there's so much more room for air in that than just a standard pull a rep, gather yourself, pull a rep, gather yourself, pull a rep. The point is the intent matters. Yes, yes. You have to like evaluate that. Yeah, and the problem with touch and go is not that you're continuously deadlifting because that's okay, you can do that with any exercise. Here's the problem. You have a long bar in your hands and you're doing, I don't know, 10 reps, let's say. On one of those reps, the left side touches the floor before the right one, even if it's a split section. Yeah, I was gonna say, it's just a split second. Yeah, and it shifts you to the right or left and if you have a lot of weight, it can cause problems. So your technique needs to be really, really good and you need to be real stable. I'll never do touch and go with super, super heavy weight. I've done in the past haphazardly, not a good idea. Yeah, and not to mention the benefits that you get from it from just doing a conventional way of deadlifting where you actually have a little bit of rest in between, right, where you go and pull, you're not getting that much more benefit by doing the touch and go. Yeah. So for me, the client has to be there. They have to already be advanced enough where they've, like if I was training one of you two, maybe we'll throw it in there. And even then, I just still don't see a tremendous amount of value in touch and go deadlifts. So I'm trying to think right now who I've trained where we have programmed that in. Most clients, I'm having them gather themselves. You know, if you, bodybuilders might benefit from touch and go, not going real heavy and focusing on the continual tension of the back and squeezing the lats, that might work. Here's another thing about deadlifts. Because of the influence of powerlifting, we, a lot of people deadlift with an alternate grip, one hand forward, one hand back. And that's because you can hold onto more weight. So I get that. Do this. If you do that, make sure you switch hands in between every other set, right? Do just as much work with your left hand supinated as you do with your right hand supinated. I fell into this trap for years. I deadlifted and I was better with the right supinated than the left. So that's what I stuck with. And I developed an imbalance in my back that probably still to this day, I have a little bit. I had took a long time. It's an unnecessary torsion in the back. Right. So either alternate them back and forth or use a hook grip. That's what I do now. I use a hook grip and now both hands are pronated. Next question is from Brian Patta. I understand the importance of rest time between sets, but what about rest time between movements? Sometimes it takes a little longer than I'd like to get from the squat rack to an open bench in a crowded gym. Does this throw off programming or anything else? No, it doesn't throw off your programming. I mean, it's different, right? If you're moving, you know, if you're resting one minute in between sets and then you change exercises and you keep that one minute, that's gonna be a different workout than if you go one minute between sets and then between exercises. It's five minutes because of setup or whatever. To be quite honest with you, I prefer to have a longer rest period between exercises. I'll keep the rest between sets faster, but between exercises, especially if it's different, you know, body part, like he said, squat to bench. I'm gonna, I'm gonna wait a little bit, five, six, seven minutes before I go into my bench. I always lean on quality of reps and performance of the reps. And so yeah, there's sometimes where you do get fatigued and you do need a little bit more rest between, you know, jumping right back in and doing the same movement. And I think that the reason why I picked this question is because this comes up a lot with the determined amount of time and the allotted time that's programmed in there. And you gotta listen to your body and you gotta pay attention to the signs and signals of like how you're breathing, you know, like how fatigued you feel. Like you gotta pay attention to all these things and determine that for yourself. But also this is sort of like a guideline that, you know, you can kind of shoot and aspire to, but really at the end of the day, this is gonna be determined specifically on the individual. We're also talking about something that is a splitting hair difference here. Totally. So if you had said, if they did a study, and of course I'm just speculating here, but I feel pretty confident that if you did a study where somebody rested, like Sal said, five to seven minutes between the exercises versus one, the difference after six months of them training that way, would be very, very little. One of them would probably be more cardiovascular adapted because there's such low rest periods. The other one wouldn't. The strength difference in the two of them, I don't know. Maybe you would see more of a strength difference in the person that actually gave them some rest. I wouldn't, I don't think I would see much of a difference. I don't think this is one of those things that I'd have one of my clients worry too much about. Yeah, it's not that big of a deal. And you know what, I'll say this even for some people. This is a good, this is fun. Try this out, right? Cause I know some people are so concerned with keeping the pace and I gotta get the sweat or whatever. If you have the time to do this, give this a shot. I guarantee it'll be one of your favorite workouts ever. Your hour workout, give yourself two hours, take your time. Go slow, practice the form, lift a little heavier, take breaks and be liberating. Give yourself like a two hour window to do a one hour workout and spread it out. And I guarantee it'll become one of the best workouts I've ever had. I actually will never forget the day that happened to me. So I was training with my buddy and this is the time I've talked on the show before. I don't like lifting partners. I had a lifting partner at the time. This was one of the reasons why I didn't like it. He loved to talk to everybody. We're in the gym one day and we must have ran into five or six. And he stops to talk every single time, which draws me in. We ended up being at the gym for like two and a half hours. I leave the gym going like that was a terrible workout. I didn't really get a solid pump. I really didn't feel anything. The next day I was sore as shit and didn't realize I just had never trained that way. And because I had such long rest periods, I wasn't used to my body feeling that way in a workout. And you're probably lifting heavier as a result. That's what ended up happening. And so after that, I thought, man, anytime I have an opportunity when I don't have a timeframe, I might stretch this thing out to 90 to two hours. Why not? I don't get to do it a lot because a lot of times I'm on a time crunch. But if I do have the opportunity, I'm gonna do that. And there's tremendous benefit to that. And you can have fun with it. Like right now I'm doing a split where I work upper body and lower body. So upper body, lower body and then I'll rest and then upper lower and kind of like that, right? So when I'm doing upper body, if I start with, typically I'll start with chest or back. And I'll do two exercises per body part. But rather than doing the two exercises for chest and then going and then doing the two exercises for back, you guys have seen me do this. I'll do a set for chest, then I'll do a set for back. Then I'll do a set for chest, then I'll do a set for back. And I'll mix it up that way. And it's a totally different stimulus. It's not superior, it's just different. And I get my body to respond again. Next question is from Mr. Dave OC. What does the behind the scenes of creating a maps program look like? For instance, how long is the writing process, common stumbling blocks, trials on multiple people, et cetera? Which program was the hardest to create? This is probably some of my fondest memories of mind pump is creating programs. The first program was Maps Anabolic. I created that one. Every single one after that, we all wrote together and we developed this process, which is really interesting. And it started with the next program we created was the Maps Performance where we would rent a house and it usually had to be like an hour or two away. And this became like in hindsight, we started saying, oh, this is the way we do it. But we'd have a house one or two hours away and we drive to the house and in the drive, we'd have this great debate and conversation about what the program should look like, things that we need to look out for. Doug would be in the back and he'd have a pen and paper. And Doug, have you saved these books with notes and stuff? Everyone. Oh, that's cool. Oh, I can't, we gotta look at these at some point, right? And he's just scribbling in the back, right? And I'm yelling and Adam's yelling and Justin's piping up and we're just having a blast. At some point, a joint comes out and we'll smoke a little weed. And then the creativity really gets crazy. Then we get to the house and what we do is we sit and we write this program for, usually it's about a day of creating and writing the whole workout program. And it goes through a couple iterations before we're satisfied with the workout that we've written. But that's kind of the process. Well, and to address the part about trials on multiple people, that's all the years of experience for each of us individually. What's great is that we're all very different. I mean, we train ourselves different, we've had different experiences with clients, yet all of us have trained tons and tons of people. So when we decide what an adaptation is that we're gonna go after. So for example, like you're talking about performance. So, and a lot of times we would head up, not even certain on what it's gonna be. We just know, hey, it's time for us to create a program. The part of the conversation is, what is our audience looking for? What do we think is the next progression from what we've written before? So there's a lot of that. And then all of a sudden they like, we figure out, okay, this is the direction we're gonna go. This is the avatar, the client we're thinking of that we wanna build this for. And I remember performance was really, at that time of the podcast was early on, we were really hammering CrossFit. Yeah, that was an answer to that one. We were really hammering CrossFit. And the pushback we got was what people felt, oh, my mobility feels so good and it's such great functional training and I love the challenging work. And so this is what we were hearing from our audience, like, okay, we wanna address this. If we had a client who wanted that type of an adaptation that you get from CrossFit training, but we were all anti the programming of CrossFit, how would we design a program? Maps performance was really an answer to that. That's how that program was decided. Then the exercise order and what days and all that stuff is like, that's the day of like arguing. Well, we all have our different backgrounds and strengths and like what we've applied to our different clientele. And that's one of those things. You see it in the programs. You see how each one of us consider very specific things that are sort of non-negotiables for us. And two, this is what makes for the quality of the programs go up because there's more considerations that need to be had for your average person. And so that's where we have a lot of the debate and discussion. Well, I had athletes that would do this and I'd warm up this way and have them do these type of mobility exercises and we discuss that. And then, well, I used this and I saw a physical therapist use this and I thought that was brilliant. And then we all have this sort of discussion which then narrows it down to what's gonna be the most effective introduction to that type of pursuit. Yeah, it's a lot of talking, standing on tables, demonstrating exercises, arguing. Useless graphs. Yeah, sometimes we would get stuck on like a, like we'd get stuck on a phase or something and it would just, it would be like four hour. Four hour debate and discussion. We'd have to take a break and we'd come back and then Doug would write it all out and we'd look at it on the table and, oh wait, this doesn't make sense. This has to fall. It's a lot of fun. As far as the most challenging to create, it's a hands down maps prime. Hands down. Well, most difficult, but most rewarding. Totally, totally. And here's why it was so challenging. So, you know, we all trainers with lots and lots of experience, right? So we all train people for two decades or more. And we wanted to create a program where people could assess themselves and then determine the best priming movements that they did before they worked out for their body. Now here's the challenge. It's extremely individual. So when you're writing a program for people to work out, you know, it's fine if you write general workout programs that will work with most people. But when you talk about an assessment and specifically training or priming your body for an exercise, that's very, it's very different from person to person. Now we knew assessments because it's what we did with clients, but I'm like, I can't, how could we possibly teach the average person or fitness fanatic how to assess themselves? This is like a whole class by itself, like there's posture and movement assessments. And if the body moves this way, you look at this and that. This is so complicated. And we literally, I don't remember, I think it took us a full day and a half of just figuring that part out. We were like so stuck. And then it hit us to create a compass where you had three movements based off those movements. If you couldn't complete the task, then it pointed in the direction of certain exercise. Sort of a flow chart. That's it. And then that all came together. I remember, Doug has the video. We had the papers that we wrote on and we put them up on the window, remember? And then we sat there and explained it and it was just... That's when we were up at the Alanis, right? That's when we did that one? Yes. Yeah, yeah, so we were up at the Alanis and you had those big windows and we had all this stuff all taped up on the window. And then after that, there's a lot, even when we decide, okay, this is the program, there's a lot of minor changes along the way, right? As we start to shoot and film and we start to see it in place and then go through it, we're going like, okay, I like how this feels. Let's change this one. We were too creative with this one. Well, Prime was like, so the thing, I remember Prime, well, you know what's cool too, I'm talking about this is kind of fun going down memory lane here. You know, what's interesting is, Sal, obviously, he wrote Anabolic all alone. So that's obviously his baby. Performance, I really feel like his Justin's baby. Even though it was all of us together, it really, I think, pulled out a lot of his strengths that he had and then aesthetic, I really feel was my baby because I was right in the heart of competing and building a physique was all what was in my mind at that time. And so it's kind of neat. And then Prime is really the culmination of all three of us. That's a good way, totally. And when you think about it, we in a perfect world, we would have wrote Maps Prime first, but we also have a business, right? We had to make money. We had to get this thing going to where we could support the team that we have and everything. And so we were forced to go the direction of, okay, we have to give somebody something they can go apply and go in the gym right away. But we all knew damn well that Prime is where everybody should start because it's exactly how you started every single client. I don't care what your goal was. If you hired me day one and probably day one through like, you know, day 14 even is all assessing stuff. It's really figuring out that client so that you can really customize a program that's curtailed to them. And that's why Prime really should have been first. And you know, here's another part too. It's when we wanted to create programs that you know, we're not in our realm of expertise. I mean, first off, we could create programs, I feel confident for anybody, right? But are there realms where it would be better or give us be more integrity to involve somebody who's got direct expertise in that field. And this is what we did with a lot of our programs like Maps Strong. We got Robert Oberst to go with us. We're gonna create this program with an actual strongman competitor and see what happens, you know. OCR was Amelia Boone, you know. She competes in OCR, she's a champion. We did Power Lift with Paulic who's a powerlifting competitor. And we were able to take them in, go through the and really that was really fun. Writing a workout program with people who competed and were advanced in those particular areas. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, Dr. Brink for Prime Pro. Dr. Brink for Prime Pro, right? So yeah, I think that's for me, it was some of the best memories for sure. I do, I miss that part of the business. It was a fun time because the company was really just starting and really starting to grow and there was a lot of, and back then, like that was a lifeline for us to create another program, right? So there was that part of like we had to do this, we had to create it. It was a lot of investment to start. It's expensive to build it. Like a lot of people may not realize, you know, it's a digital program that you get, you must think it's really basic. But I mean, every time we write one of those it's anywhere between $30,000 and $50,000 of investment on us from everything from the models to the backend support to it to the videographer to the editing of all of it. So it's a, and then also the trip to build it and do it and the timeframe to get it all done. So yeah, definitely a major process to put it out. This is also why we felt okay with charging a rate that was significantly higher than average. If we did our homework too, it's not like we just randomly came across this price point where we're at. When you look at digital programs that are sold online the average price point is $27 to $57. And you know, and we had the audacity to go ask for 130 plus for a lot of our program, but we also knew what we put into it and what they were gonna get. And how effective they were. These are the ones that actually, it's not just a workout. This one's not something you find in a magazine. Right. Yeah, it's way more. Next question is from John Falbert. I hear a lot about how bad red meat is for your health but you guys often talk about eating it almost daily. Are there any actual issues with eating too much red meat? Okay, so I'll answer the second part, right? Are there issues with eating too much red meat? Well, you can eat probably too much of anything and it can cause a problem. That being said, is red meat bad for your health? Is it one of those foods that you should put in a category of unhealthy? No, it's one of the healthiest things that you can eat. And I'm not talking about processed red meat. So I'm not talking about sausage or salami or foods at lunch meats and that kind of stuff. I'm not about steak, maybe ground beef. Are those unhealthy? Absolutely not. They're some of the most nutrient dense foods you'll find anywhere. And they provide a very good source of protein. The fat in red meat, this is where they get the bad rap, right? Oh, they're high in saturated fat or they're high in whatever. We now know that if you're otherwise healthy, those things really don't have a negative effect on the body. And if you get a source like grass-fed red meat, the fatty acid profile actually is pretty damn balanced. For athletic performance and strength, I can't think of a single food that is probably more beneficial for strength and for athletic performance. In fact, if I've actually had people just switch their meat, their source of protein to red meat and seen their strength go up because of it. Yeah, no, I think I probably eat red meat on the daily. I think it's a staple. It's also a staple in most clients unless I had a client that had a special condition or absolutely hated an outlier. Right, absolutely hated red meat, then maybe it wouldn't be in there. But for most people, and that's so funny about the stuff that comes out to say that the negative things about red meat, it's all in context of people that are eating an absurd amount of calories over and then we're cherry picking data that's around the red meat. And if you have somebody in a calorie controlled environment or you're writing a diet for them that they're following and they're training and exercising, red meat's like one of the best things that should be in their diet. Well, the irony is a lot of times you end up having to get your client to supplement for a lot of those nutrients and things that they would've got otherwise from red meat, like iron or even if their protein levels are a bit lower than they normally would be if they're including it a bit more regularly in their diet. So to me, it's just like the body recognizes it. This is something that it is very efficient at utilizing if, unless you have a special condition or your body actually rejects it. Yeah, and here's the other problem too is because we've now had decades of misinformation demonizing red meat as an unhealthy food, when you do these observational studies and most nutrition studies are garbage because they're based off of surveys and asking people questions. I'm gonna tell you something right now as a personal trainer. People almost, they never accurately know what their calories are, they never accurately know what their macros are. People are terrible at reporting their diets. And so, but that's most nutritional studies. So if you have decades of information telling you that red meat is unhealthy, what kind of people because of that will then eat more red meat or at least not taken out of their diet? People who are not health conscious. So now you've got this bias, right? Oh, look, these people over here eat more red meat and they're also more unhealthy. Well, yeah, because for years we've been told that red meat is unhealthy. So now the only people that eat a lot of red meat are people that don't really think about their health and the people who eat lots of chicken or fish are people who read all this information but they also exercise, they also don't overeat. The people who eat red meat also eat lots of burgers, they eat lots of fries, they process foods, they don't exercise a lot. So it's very, very difficult to break it out. But the best studies that we have that control certain things show that red meat is a health food. It's actually a health food, it's good for you. Again, those other studies put people in a category because of other behaviors and the more we push this myth that red meat is bad for you, the more we'll start to see that. Because again, if you eat a lot of red meat, today you're probably somebody that doesn't care about your health because all the information you've been reading or maybe you didn't read about your health. Unfortunately, you have to consider the source. You have to follow the money. All these things have to be a consideration, especially any information these days. You have to actually do your due diligence and find out where this information is actually coming from because there are things within the dietists, specifically, that have been proven that there's been shenanigans within the studies and things, look at the pyramid, look at the nutrition pyramid and things that we've been taught as kids that are healthy for us. It's just you have to be able to be open to thinking that your ideas might be wrong. Yeah, well, here's a good example, okay? If you went back into the 80s and maybe early 90s, and you studied people's butter and margarine consumption, here's what you would have found. People who ate butter were not as healthy as people who ate margarine. This is back in the 80s and 90s. Now, why is that? Because back then, butter was hammered as unhealthy and margarine was hammered as being healthy. So the people who were health conscious, who also exercised, who also watched their calories, who also paid attention to that kind of stuff, ate margarine. The people who didn't pay attention to being healthy, they ate butter like they always did. So now you've got this correlation, butter unhealthy, margarine healthy. Now we know for a fact, it's reversed. Butter is good for you, margarine was terrible. Margarine was these partially hydrogenated oils, these trans fats that are pretty much bad for you at almost any dose. We know now that butter is good. There's nothing wrong with butter and it was a margarine that was bad. But if you had looked at those studies then, it would have looked like the opposite. This is what's happened with a lot of these, when you read these nutritional studies on red meat. But when they do the controls, again, red meat is a health food. It's one of the most nutrient dense foods that you'll find. Can you eat too much of it? Yeah, you can eat too much of anything. So of course, on the other end of the scale is if you overeat anything, you can cause yourself problems. Which by the way, that's a lot of that. Like to eat, just overeat red meat. But Justin, you've done the carnivore diet. It's hard to overeat red meat on a diet that's purely all red meat. I mean, your body gets so satiated from eating red meat. Where it's not ideal is if a lot of your red meat comes from McDonald's and Burger King with the fries and the milkshake on top of that, that's where all of a sudden now red meat looks bad. Absolutely. Look, Mind Pump is recorded on videos as well as audio. Come find us on YouTube, Mind Pump Podcast. You can also find all of us on social media, Instagram is the place to look. You can find Justin at Mind Pump Justin. You can find me at Mind Pump Sal and Adam at Mind Pump Adam. This is the part of happiness that people don't usually understand. True happiness requires unhappiness. Why? Because purpose requires pain. To find meaning in your life. And pain is just incredibly sacred. If we miss out on pain, if we miss out on post-traumatic growth, we miss out on experiences, we miss out on.