 Welcome everybody. It's about six o'clock, so we're going to get started. Thank you all for coming. I'm Greg Duggan. I'm the town manager for Essex and welcome you to a public information session and question and answer session, mostly focused on the town's finances as we're looking ahead to the coming year. You've probably heard that on July 1st Essex Junction became an independent city. It's no longer part of the town of Essex and so we as staff in the select board are starting to plan ahead and look ahead as to what the future of Essex is and what it looks like and we're going to focus tonight probably on the financial part of that, the budget that's coming up for fiscal 24 that's actually starting its planning phases very quickly. Also taking a look at the capital budget and taking a look at some of the American Rescue Plan Act money that the federal government has made available. So again, I'm Greg Duggan. I'm the town manager. Margarit Ladd is over there at the other end of the table. She's the deputy manager. Select Board Member Don Hill-Flurry is here tonight as well to listen and Jen Nour is a mediator and facilitator who's going to guide the discussion tonight. So with that I will turn it over to Jen and Margarit and I almost turned it over to Jen. Margarit and I have a couple of short presentations that we'll get through but mostly we want to be able to hear from residents and hear from the people in the room today or online and try to answer your questions and get some guidance as we go forward putting together the budget and setting out the town's future. That will turn it over to Jen. It's no small task. So welcome everybody. It's nice to see you. Let's take a minute to welcome Ethan. I'm so glad you're here. That was not a problem at all. So each topic we do have three different topics to move through in approximately 90 minutes which is a pretty short period of time. So we'll be toggling back and forth between on air comments and in the room comments. Please share comments on air if you're here and if you're in the room you just come up to this microphone here at the table. In the interest of hearing from as many voices as possible I am going to give priority priority to folks who have not yet spoken but the nature of tonight's conversation is that it overlaps so many different topics. You might have a topic in the first part of something to say in the first part of the meeting and then want to speak again and we'll try to get to as many different people as we can. So far it's a pretty manageable number so that's hopeful. I don't know how many of you were around for last year's public session but very similar format. I'll be taking notes on the shared screen so that those of you who are online and in the room can see how I'm making sense of the comments that you're adding. It's an aggregate list so it's not a note that's word for word recording all the action that happens but trying to get the gist of what you're trying to say. And to that end you might find that I interrupt sometimes to make sure that I'm getting it accurately. I was going to say I can't guarantee that everyone will have a chance to speak but I think we can if the numbers stay like this. Right now we have about 16 people online and we have three different people in the room from the public so that's a manageable number. If there are still comments in the wings by 730 then we can sit back and assess our options for getting comments. I haven't been there yet. So I think Greg I now pass it back to you for the budget overview. So presentation followed by questions. Correct. Let me share my screen here. So as I said I wanted to start taking a look at the financial picture that the town is facing and looking at in the coming year. This first part of the meeting we'll take a look at the fiscal year 2024 budget. We are currently in... Can we put it on that screen too so the audience can see it? Oh that's a good question. I don't know how to do that. Sorry let me see. I'm sorry I just I don't think... Yeah no for those of you in the room it'd be much easier to see the screen that's right next to you than the one up here. I'm not sure that we can we can try to angle this just so thank you guys. You are welcome to shift your seats if that makes more sense and being able to see. That helps people out there. All right so we are currently in fiscal year 2023 which just started on July 1st. This is the last year that will include municipal property taxes from Essex Junction. The total budget for this year is about 16.7 million dollars. That equates on the average assessed home in Essex to about a $1,600 bill for your municipal taxes. Your tax bill is higher that's because the number that I'm showing up there does not include the Essex Westford School District taxes. Those make up about 75% of your tax bill. So just with that quick background we're now looking at fiscal year 2024. It starts almost a year from now but believe it or not the planning starts now. We're going to have some big changes next year to to consider and to keep in mind as the town puts together its budget as exjunctions now in independent city because that the town has lost about 42% of its tax base. There is some there are some shared service agreements with the city of Essex Junction that the town has in place that will ensure some revenue coming in from the city of Essex Junction. Stuff like the police, the assessor's office are going to be shared for a little bit so there'll be some revenue coming in from Essex Junction to help pay for the cost of those services or cover the cost of those services. What this means is that the the town of Essex budget is going to decrease but the tax rate if the town wants to maintain its current level of service is going to increase. Our goal as staff and is to bring a bring a budget present a budget to the select board that continues to provide quality services to our taxpayers and we want to put together a budget that puts Essex on stable footing for a predictable future predictable financial future and in a stable place that we can continue providing good quality services to our residents to our community. That's not necessarily going to be easy. We do recognize we have some challenges in the coming year with no changes to maintain that that service level that the town has expected and has got used to. In a vacuum it's probably a 22 to 25 increase on your municipal taxes. For the average assessed home that's that's probably about 350 $360 again that does not include Essex Westford school district taxes. Those are not part of this conversation. Those aren't affected by by separation. They're they do their own thing on a year-to-year basis. The good news is that we do have some tools to look at and to consider as we put the budget together and bring information to the select board to voters to our residents. We can look for efficiencies we we do every year I think it's going to be an extra close look this year at each one of our departments and the services they provide and how they provide them. We can look at raising revenue from non taxes that's your fees that's your impact fees and and service fees. We can cut services if there's something that people feel like they no longer need we can take a look at reducing the level of service. There's also some additional money available. You've probably heard about ARPA. It's the American Rescue Plan Act. It's some federal money that's come down after COVID. Essex has about $3.3 million of that. It can be used for a number of things but I could reach going to touch on that later on in the evening so I won't get too far into it but that's possible. The town also has fund balance each year. It's essentially savings the recommended financial amount is to keep about 15% of your operating budget in fund balance. We do have some money expect to have some money above and beyond that especially if the budget itself is getting smaller that frees up potentially some money into fund balance so we can look at using some of the ARPA money and or fund balance money to mitigate that tax increase that is mentioned up there. So those are the kinds of things that we're keeping in mind. We do absolutely want to hear from residents and your thoughts what you're thinking about. That's what tonight is the start of. There's going to be many other opportunities to weigh in on that. The budget schedule going forward. Like I said starting now essentially we're starting to look at the budget. Departments will start. Department heads will start putting their budgets together. We expect to have something to present to the select board by October. The select board is going to have its first budget workday in November and then in December and if we need to in January we'll have the additional work sessions with the select board. We'll have the public hearings and be able to put together a budget by the end of January at the latest to put out to voters and bring to voters for consideration at town meeting day in March. The additional considerations that we can touch on later on but just wanted to mention them up now. I mentioned ARPA. We'll also touch a little bit on capital planning and budgeting and as part of that building needs that the town is looking at as well. So with that I will turn that off and turn it back to Jen. The questions and right now what I'm looking for are clarifying questions that you might have for Greg about the budget. If you're online or if you're in the room you can raise your virtual hand so that we can see that you've got a question. I'm going to ask you at this point not to put them in the chat but to share them on air. So we had you have one comment in the room. Come on up and ask your question please. If we could make sure we get people to say their name when they come up that would be great. My name is Jose Jimenez. I am Walter Adams. I live on Indian Brook Road, have for 45 years so I think I own about 10% of this building based on the taxes I paid. I have to admit that I have only had time to kind of peruse through the revenue side of the budget. I did ask the town finance office the other day to provide me a little bit of information about the end of fiscal 22 because it just ended so she was nice enough to give me some preliminary numbers. So I have some it's I'm a little reluctant. I don't want to say that the town planning or the town select board has a little trouble budgeting but I certainly don't want to admit that I don't know what the result of 22 was and we created a 23 budget and now we're going to create a 24 budget off a 23 budget and we don't even know how 22 ended up. So I think what is your question? All right so here we go because actually there's I would agree that it does appear to me based on what they gave me that 58% of the tax revenue will disappear. You had 41 saying 58 is what's going to be left on the revenue side. So there was in the fight and the numbers always seem to jump around quite a little bit but in the last year in 23 there was a budget line item in finance for $61,000 in and I question whether that's a continuing amount or if that was a one time only deal so it won't show up again in 24 for revenue. Is that a question that you can answer? Do you remember what the where the 61,000 was? All I got was a number it doesn't and it wasn't in 22 it was in 23 but I don't have any result for 23 obviously 23 just started so we have no way I'm not and the other question was will we be sharing the police revenue at some rate with the village or does I mean there are two ways to think about it. It's going to be either a net deal with the village or the village just pays some percentage and the other question I have is how is that percentage calculated? Is it based on tax base? Is it based on people or and is it recalculated every year? So because like I said I haven't got to the other side of this which is the cost side trying to identify in my own mind how that's going to work. Part of what you're trying to figure out is the landscape of what you're seeing in those budgets overall. So do you have a question that you wanted to ask about the specifically only the discussion of how is that police revenue going to be shared? Is it going to show up? I mean it's all last year it was 100 or in 22 they budgeted 62 it came in at $121,000 so if it's going to continue at that level it's a pretty significant number and if you're going to give up half of it to the village as part of the deal then it really only shows up in your budget as half of that number and depending on how you sugar it out. If I don't understand your tax basis or your financial basis whether you're going to see a revenue line item that says oh the village is going to give us $2.8 million and you're going to see it as a revenue and you get to keep all the whatever the costs are or how that's going to work. It's part of what you're trying to figure out is how that police budget will be shared. Yes and then the question would be if it's going to be on a tax basis then I already know the answer if it's going to be on a population basis then I would need to know what that percentage would be. I have an answer to the police and I believe I think I saw Courtney raise her hand she might have an answer to the finance question Courtney is the interim finance director. Yes she was the one who was nice enough to provide the information to me. The police first. Sure police first so the police services shared services agreement is going to be split the cost of the police department is going to be split based on a per capita basis. The split between the town and the village about 48 percent of the population this is based on the 2020 census numbers but 48 percent of the population is in as exjunction and 52 percent is in the town. The town is also assessing an additional three and a half percent of the cost of the police budget to cover stuff like financial support, HR support, management support so that gets tacked on as well. If there's any leftover money or savings at the end of the fiscal year that money is then shared by the same ratio. Does that help? Yep that's and unfortunately because I never got to the other side of this budget yet. Those are my questions at this point. Let's see I can do the 61,000 I think the 61,000 that you're referring to that you saw on the revenue line you want to know if that'll be next year or in fiscal 24 I guess and that's from fund bounce so no that that shouldn't be reoccurring again. Okay that brings another whole subject up but I'm not going to get into it. Pretty disturbed that you split the fund balance up into all kinds of different places instead of showing it as one line item because it seems to me that defeats the whole purpose of understanding how you're budgeting by not having that fund balance being a line item that just says okay we put this much money into the into the deal to make it work. And we do have that we do have those numbers we can touch base after this meeting and get you how we assign that each year. Okay thank you very much. So I'll go to online next and then back to the room any other questions around the budget? I mean I'm sure there are questions but are there any questions you'd like to ask right now around anticipating budget fiscal year 24? Anyone online you can raise your virtual hand or you can turn on your video if you want to let us know that you've got a comment just wave to me if you've got a comment or you can raise your virtual hand either way. Let's go back to the room then any other questions in the room and we'll come back to you Walter if we have a chance first go right ahead. Jen can I just jump in if anybody if anybody online is looking to raise your hand if you go to the bottom of the screen you should see an icon for a reactions button. If you click on that there's a raise hand function there. So Ramirez iPad this year are muted but then nothing happened I mean when you're right. Go right ahead and then Ross will go to you. I heard Walt got on preliminary numbers for the fiscal year 22 just wrapping up and wondered if there is going to be a surplus or projected surplus or deficit for year 22. We're waiting for we're going to have to wait for some more numbers to come in the final numbers won't be done until the audit is complete we're pretty close to budget. Beyond that I haven't seen haven't had a chance to really confidently say what the numbers are. Oh okay I didn't get the numbers okay okay and did you have other questions no that was a thing okay Ross go ahead yeah you mentioned the for the expected tax increase based on the average residence what is the what is the valuation of the residence that that's based on. That's based on the average assessed value of a home in Essex is $280,000 and that's the assessed value not the not the market value. Okay thank you. Ross does that answer your question? It does. Courtney did you have something you wanted to add I saw Ray's hand up there. I just wanted to add that those FY 22 numbers are changing daily as we continue to accrue revenues and expenditures that relate to FY 22 so excuse me just wanted to remind everybody that we're still in the modified accrual period so again those are preliminary numbers and the audited numbers will the final audited numbers will come out in January. In January of 23 other questions related to the budget fiscal year 24 namely let me see if there's any online first before I go back to repeat so if you are online and you're trying to get my attention there's a couple ways to do it you can raise your virtual hand by sort of moving your mouse over the screen and either go to the reactions toolbar or over your camera your photo you might have three dots you can click on you can send the chat if you have a something to say or you can turn on your camera and wave go ahead Walter. Two years ago I remember that the town the town entity as an entity had a vote on the 1% of the taxes be set aside for social spending and I wondered what the actual split result was of that vote between the village and the town and if the town voted no now that we're not together does that mean that that 1% is no longer valid in the current budget and that we would have to either vote for it again or suggest reducing that number back to an ongoing basis number and not some fixed dollar value depending on what the budget might be to be spent. Gregor, do you have any perspective on that? Yeah that that vote was back in I believe the 1980s I do not know. It seems to me I remember it being a lot sooner than that because I wouldn't that was a long time ago. Yeah no I'm almost positive I can double check that but the most positive was the 1980s I want to say 1987. I did not know the town village split as far as it changing it's not something we've really considered that I've considered. I well I'm only suggesting because if obviously the town voted no and the village voted yes now it's just the town so the question becomes is it legal for you to collect the 1% I guess. I would say it's still legal until it becomes someone proposes that it become it votes on it to not do it that way but it was voted on as the for the town of Essex we are still the town of Essex. Okay we can we can see that one in different fashions. Are you noting the question? The other issue that I have is have you had any discussions with CCTA and what the effect of separating from the city is going to have on their proposed budget to us and has anyone decided that that budget makes sense having seen it? We have had discussions we have had discussions it was looked into probably about a year a year and a half ago when Essex Junction was looking at separation and preparing their budget. I forget I don't have the numbers off the top of my head but I want to say out of the 280 $300,000 assessment from Green Mountain Transit each year the majority of that was going to be assessed to to the new city whether or not the remaining amount is still worth it for the town. That's a conversation for for the coming fiscal year and as we do our budget preparation. Okay those were the those were the two other things that I wanted a little clarification for or some identification on. Thank you very much. Thanks so a final pass for questions and then we will move towards input in case there are people waiting to give some comments. Are there any other clarifying questions on the budget fiscal year 24? Ethan you have questions? It's just uh I think it'd be very clarifying for everybody but we talked about a budget increase of 22 to 25 percent. Do you have the tax rate increase on the top of your head or cent-wise? I think that'd be good just to have not off the top of my head I mean that I said in that um yeah I don't have it off the top of my head. Okay you can get it you can get that. It's a helpful number because to see that it's 25 cents or 35 cents. Try to anticipate what the actual amount might be. You can say 22 to 25 in the regional box or anywhere between 16 and 35 because we didn't know so we haven't not percent but a cent value to the increase more meaningful the property owners who know that they have X amount of dollars in property. Some outdated numbers from something Sarah Macy former finance director had put together it's probably in the 12 to 14 cent range going from about um Okay other clarifying questions? That'll be for next meeting. All right Ethan did I cut you off? No you're good I'm just kidding did I get a no or still pass? Anticipating yes it's another two. So are there any other clarifying questions online or in the room? I'm assuming that we're ready for input and I do want to reserve some time for there if we can so I'm preparing to move on but I don't want to be leaving anybody out. Okay so this is um here's what I'm preparing to do for the two of you is to move into this question about level of services cost of services is that where you thought I was going to go Marguerite or am I skipping over a presentation you had? No. Okay here's the couple things to say first I am preparing to ask for comments if you have them around level of services and cost of services and the I have a couple things to say just because it's a tricky conversation to have in a short time frame um I want to acknowledge that so many services are important to a community as well being and you won't always know how your neighbors value or how they feel about those decisions so some of the valued services that are monumental to them may be hidden to you and vice versa and that makes this conversation a little awkward to step towards. We're still stepping towards it though because one of the starting places at least is to try to understand when you look at the budget scenario and try and figure out which services do you retain and where do you cut back if you need to? This is an opportunity to lend some insight about how you're weighing those choices so it isn't easy but nonetheless there is interest in knowing how you're thinking about those things. We'll talk first about level of services and then go to the capital needs if they start to get a little intermingled that's okay that's and also understandable. Anyone before I take comments I'm wondering how many of you have something to say here here are the questions I'm going to be asking what services are crucial in a sentence or two why or your rationale what services could you live without and again in a sentence or two why and if there's room for it what services could you live without but are really important to the community's well-being knowing that there's nuances here. I'm going to share my screen so that you can see them up front in case you'd like to look at those prompts. Oops I can't share screen can you make all of this? And um format here is very similar we're going to start with Natalie because her hand is up and we're going to take some comments online and then because there's more people online we'll all go with whoever I haven't heard from yet today and prioritize those voices. Hey Natalie let me see if I can share my screen first before you begin speaking there it looks like you can see that. So Natalie as you speak I'm not talking I'm not going to be recording word for word but I am trying to get the gist of what you'd like to say so I can capture it but maybe quiet first and then I'm going to try to write down the kernel of that piece. Go right ahead. Okay and really it's not about a service that we have in fully in place right now I really wanted to speak to the use of the ARPA funds. But towards the end. Okay great. Is there something you want? I'll come on later then. Okay all right great. ARPA conversation towards the end and one of the thinking there is that there the ARPA is just another moving piece in this budgetary puzzle and so just let's cover a little bit of territory and then we'll come back to that Natalie I'm going to make a note okay. Sure first okay. Any other comments and you can let me know by turning on your video or your microphone or raising your virtual hand. Lorraine go ahead. A quick question I don't even really know is there a way to list what the services are because I wouldn't even know what to pick from right so and I'm probably not alone in that so yeah. I imagine you aren't so I don't know if there is a way to list them all unless you're looking how would people find out what the I mean there are so many right that's part of what you're underscoring. Lorraine I think probably the the quickest thing to do would maybe go to the town website sxvt.org if you go to government services if you look at departments that's probably the quickest highest level way to see what what services are being provided by each department then we also have our boards and committees and select board that that provide different services often on a volunteer basis your taxes are mostly paying for the departments that are listed on the website. Okay right because my understanding is almost the bulk of all our committees unless they're taking a stipend is free for us other than overhead for using the room maybe or whatever right yep and that's that's why I would focus on the the department level services so do you have examples of what department level services might be that's your public works department your parks and rec department manager finance it assessing clerks office human resources home dam community development police fire rescue rescue rescue another way to think about this question might be and I'm sorry for any department I forgot I'm going off the top my head the rescue is very important but then that's a whole other list than I can list okay yeah but here's the one way to answer the question without necessarily needing to choose from a list that's bound another way to think about this is what services are you paying attention to that are crucial and that you'd like to have and it's a valid comment whether or not it actually fits into a new category there's still some perspective there right because the other part of that question to me as a taxpayer is I'm not sure which ones also bring in revenue you know so in terms of the balance sheet so that would impact my answer as well yeah there are two pieces here there's a level of service in terms of what you're experiencing it versus the cost in the trade offs yeah Jen could I is that a way of saying that services that produce revenue and generate income are worth keeping around is that what you're insinuating laryn I'm insinuating I guess that there are probably places that you know not to pick on anyone but for example that the sx rescue who I believe we donate money to and is a vital service because they are not first responder status they are not as available to be able to bring in revenue for example like fire department if they combine with the fire department we might be able to get more granting opportunities to help fund that as opposed to just being from the tax base so to me it's more about are we turning over rocks are we thinking creatively like that I wouldn't want to cut that services that service at all but I would want to look at a way to balance the sheet better in terms of bringing in revenue so it's a it's a hard I don't I can't imagine wanting to cut any of those services you listed so to me it's more about trying to explore how to bring in more revenue and be smarter about it and seek more grant opportunities can I just add something there too um also just um if you look at the fiscal year 23 budget that might help a bit just understand a little bit about which departments bring in revenue you know where you can see then like well it's looked at revenue where there's some fees or something like that that pertain to the department just that's helpful to get lists for ones if one's looking over this of what exists and what's out there and what's funded versus then what they come bring bring stuff in or not yeah and part of I think Lorraine part of your comment might be trying to underscore that you're you're trying to frame this as widely as possible and explore ways to bring in more revenue rather than be framing it as which services need to be cut or retained which is absolutely part of the mix and I would point out if you look at the 23 budget part of the problem we're looking at the revenue side of it is did the unbalance the revenues so we talked about just a minute ago in the finance department it looks like they're bringing in $61,000 but they're not you're stealing money from our other pocket and flaming it as income there instead of putting it in the line item that says transfer from fund balance to balance the budget so you got to be a little careful when you look at those numbers I mean yeah so part of what half million dollar three million dollar police department worth 121 thousand dollars in revenue well there's a lot more police department than what it brings in for revenue that's right so do I think we should eliminate the senior bus no I don't think so so I'm gonna do I do do I think you know that the parks and rec department charges me $30 to go to Newbrook do I think that's a fair number no I don't I think that's okay but part of what I need to be able to do is is to capture some of these some of these things that you're weighing but be able to capture them in a way that's not just in the conversation here but kind of that gets into my notes there's no easy there's no easy way conversation here and part of that is you're going to have to eliminate a whole process of finance because I can't if somebody's let me tell you this minute down to it cost us 65 grand to run those senior bus but that senior bus is we could be important for the people yes so I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask for the the focus of and in part it is because this is a very complicated conversation and it's not going to get all rounded out and problem solved in this evening for sure but when you think about and pay attention to the services that are crucial and this is an invitation that's going to go out widely to any participant in this meeting in the room and online what are those services that are crucial what services could you live without what services to Walter's point that you're just making now could you live without but are really vital to the community's well-being you have any of those comments that you'd like to capture here that I may have missed and again that invitation goes to all of you online as well you just need to raise your virtual hand or give me an indication that you have a comment to share Walter I do want to come back if there's a piece in there that I can reflect here I'll just need your help and trend in translating it this one sorry I know that I take on Green Mountain Transit significantly because the number has been eaten and I'm sure it's a lot of people on that bus the rest of the time it's nothing so and I and so I have to wonder why you know ccta or whatever you want to call it Green Mountain Transit isn't running some kind of Sprinter van instead of a 96 foot long bus down our street so you would say look at ccta transit that's a Green Mountain Transit issue that I can't really deal with well we're going to pay less money but it's still a significant chunk of dough so you have to decide whether that chunk of dough is worth so here's what here's how I'm going to our community and the same thing applies to the one excuse me Walter right no excuse is the only community Walter I'm so sorry but it's so complex I'm not gonna it's gonna be I'm so full of the information I won't be able to actually use it very well but one thing I am able to grab I think out of this piece is for example something very concrete look at transit systems and alternatives and what those costs are Ken you were noting that ccta some of these nuances might have been taken care of by town versus village yeah it sounds like the senior bus is a service that's crucial can I make a suggestion about the list you can I may or may not take it but instead of saying what services are crucial is very good but instead of saying what services could live without what services could live without or be important to the community why not why couldn't it be what services could we look at to like certain items of it's not that somebody doesn't want this service not at all or nothing it's that they have things inside of that service that they've found could be changed rather than making it about eliminating something it's truthfully can't eliminate any one of our services but there are parts in the services that could be looked at it's a very thoughtful addition and it's something that the right words might even pop up while we're sitting in this conversation but I think part of what you're trying to underscore is it isn't doesn't have to be an all or nothing so what are the services in particular if there's an element of them that you might look at finding an alternative for or what would you retain into that service versus constrain or lesson and to that point one percent it's collected fights a lot of services found pays for that most of the people in the town don't have any idea they're paying what are some of those services that I don't you don't break it down and it's a decision that support makes so I have no way of knowing where that last year a hundred and fifty thousand dollars we so and this year it'll be a little less than that what the budget is we have all that on our website again let's let's touch base after the meeting I can get you that it's certainly one of those people is more than grateful for those funds so both services Walter this it feels so disrespectful for me to do this I do need to actually move on even though I know there's some pieces of your comments that I have missed and the reason I'm doing that is because I know there's other voices that potentially either have things to say about services or we're going to go to capital needs here in just a moment too all right I see your hand is up I do want to take a quick pass to see if there's anybody else online or anyone who hasn't spoken yet who had a comment around services that are crucial to retain or services that you might think about adjusting to Ethan's point is there anybody saying a comment Rachel go ahead is that Rachel pronouncing that well sorry um yes perfect Rachel um and I apologize I've been listening to this on the go and this may be the wrong uh insertion point here for for this comment but um I can be corrected um I wanted to first uh thank the town for for doing this it's vitally important um however I will say that I if I may offer some criticism this this is not enough to reach the people where services matter and I can understand that uh you know business as usual has been holding these forums which is great I think that there has to be more outreach by the town in a different way and not just surveys and forums to get this information out um that's just my two cents and um also six o'clock is really tough for families really really tough um and families in this town I feel like a broken record are so underrepresented and those are the those are the people in this town that that need a lot of these services um and then switching gears um I just want to make a quick statement that about something that I feel like we keep glossing over here um that the for the last I don't know two years there we knew about this impending tax increase that and and to be quite honest with you that it could have been avoided and now we're looking at 20% for whatever it is that ballpark but this is like we've been watching these um uh you know these hearings uh for for January 6 and they talk about the big lie well this happened people were denying that this tax increase was going to happen as a result of separation and it ran like wildfire and that yep I'm going to wrap up I promise but I think I'm wondering if there's a question in there um yep I'm getting to it okay I mean no I'm not sure if I'd actually heard a question in your comments which is around percentages but go go ahead to oh no I mean the percentages I'm sure I'm I'm sure I'm wrong it's like whatever it is 20 25% um but um you know this campaign to deny that this tax increase was going to happen it it's kind of mind boggling and it included members of the community and members of the slack board and this was coming and I get that we can't go back but here we are here we are having to talk about making cuts to services and to wrap this up there's no services that I believe should be cut yeah I mean we can go round and round and round but these are vital services I mean we can talk about the minutia um of little line items but that is no that is not going to make a dent in this impending tax increase and that's where we are and this could have been avoided so you know there's there was a time for questions before but also comments and I I think part of what's in that comment is this again acknowledgement that it's really hard to be looking at the situation and trying to weigh really tough tough tough decisions um even the way that these questions are framed about services that are crucial when they are all crucial to somebody um and which services could you live without or adjust still a painful question to ask I mean a hard one to consider which is in part think these questions might be really awkward and not the right way or not the easiest way to ask them it's still the question that people who are trying to make an informed decision about those budget fiscal year 24 are trying to figure out how you're thinking about them so Lorraine I see that you have your hand up and I think you've spoken before so I will come back to you if there's no other comments of anyone else who hasn't spoken yet specifically what I'm looking for is an answer to these prompts services that are crucial that you're paying attention to services that you would suggest adjusting or looking at again any comments specific to that online or in the room Lorraine go ahead um thank you for bringing up the senior bus and the ccta transit because it's things like that that um I'm understanding there are opportunities like the micro busing system so that's when I say and the previous caller in terms of the level of services that we have um I think I can't see cutting any of them but re-looking at them and understanding how to um make them less expensive or bringing revenue to offset from the increase I disagree with the previous caller I knew that my taxes were going to be increased whether I merged or not merged and we had not gone through the discussion the merged process whether uh how we were going to deal with the impending increase in terms of services so um anyway we're here regardless of either way this went and I appreciate this opportunity thanks okay thanks Lorraine so I'm going to suggest that we go to capital needs and see what sorts of questions and comments that brings up um do you have Murray or Greg presentation on that please okay I do let me stop sharing so you've got some space on the screen okay um capital needs similar story and concepts um as as far as the operating budget the town's losing about 42 of its property tax base or has lost about 42 of its property tax base um the numbers that we just ran through for the for the fiscal year 24 operating budget that included replenishing the the capital tax um to keep it generating the same amount of revenue roughly as it had been in the past with that loss of 42 that's the money that helps fund our infrastructure our roads our sidewalks our pipes our buildings our large vehicles um we were getting to the point that right now that the capital tax is two cents um and even that was not really covering our capital needs going forward so too we want to at minimum um keep us where we are at as far as the revenue that's coming in it's also money that can be used to leverage leverage additional money grant funding from from the feds from the state we have a pretty detailed capital plan that goes out each year um to complicate things again this year uh we're looking at the the possibility of what that looks like for our buildings um we have buildings needs uh for instance you can see up here the fire station is getting a little bit small for what it is and what it serves um there's a need for new vehicles especially as the community grows as larger uh taller buildings go up um in town fire for the fire station to be able to i have the vehicles to serve those buildings um that's something that needs to be looked at the town offices right now we are in sitting in the city of Essex Junction in the town offices uh i don't know quite what the the appetite is for new town offices but it's something that that has come up in conversation and that we've heard before about having a new town office within the town of Essex the library is is having a need for additional storage space programming space uh recreation could use programming space the senior center is currently at 2 Lincoln street that's the city hall city offices in Essex Junction um it's going to be there or or somewhere um through 2023 December 2023 based on shared services agreements after that the future is a bit uncertain public works um has some possibilities as well a new salt shed would allow them to keep a larger stockpile of salt in the buildings that'll save money in the long run be able to help with planning and predictability depending on a fire station um public works could rearrange some things free up some office space so there's a lot of possibilities of of what the town can look at through through its municipal buildings the select board had a strategic planning session back in May uh there was interest in looking at a new municipal complex that ties into the building needs staff has begun to take a look at what those facilities needs are what they might actually look like um beyond just ideas so we can start to assign some price tags and start to look at funding options um to pursue those if if that is the desire we want to share that with the select board and residents um pretty much overlapping with the the fiscal 20 year fiscal 24 budget schedule so we can have kind of a whole comprehensive financial picture of what the town is facing um that I will wrap up the capital piece and turn it back to Jen and to anybody with questions and comments and feedback let's start with questions so are there clarifying questions around the capital needs and again a show of hands first before asking the question so I can get a sense of volume would be great there's at least one comment in the room I believe any questions online go ahead will yeah so I'm just wondering so this is uh we've identified this as capital needs and yet it sounds like there's still a great deal of uncertainty as to whether you would actually go forward with let's say replacing 81 Main Street with another building so is it really a plan or is it this at this point is it just a brainstorming because it seems to me it could uh you know if the answer is let's just stay put then it seems to me there's a whole lot of capital that's opened up and the reverse is also true yeah well it's a bit of both um stuff like the salt shed uh the fire department those have been identified in the capital plan um we've been aware of that for for a little bit of time and starting to set some money aside to do some studies um as far as a new town office that had not been in the capital plan um and and frankly it's you know I I list it with capital because it's a building's thing it is a bit separate from that you know we raise about $550,000 a year give or take through our capital capital tax uh that's not going to fund a town office anytime soon a lot of these buildings are probably um depending on the extent of extent of it is probably looking at a bond issue um maybe there's some grant money maybe there's some of that federal federal money uh but it's it's probably a bond conversation so as far as like a new town office yeah that's more of a brainstorm that's putting an idea out there and seeing where it lands um some of it is a bit more specific salt shed um you know public works offices stuff like that that might be able to be done a bit more easily my only follow-up Greg is do you know and maybe it's too early to know because the legislation only just passed and like our committee was just starting to look at it last night but the municipal energy resilience program I think it was act 125 that's supposed to provide funds in beginning in 2024 I think to you know four municipal buildings for basically cutting over getting off of fossil fuel can that can those funds be used in theory to replace buildings all together or to like consolidate multiple buildings into a single municipal complex that's a great question and I'd love to look into it more in our building's person Tom yand I was here um given a maybe kind of look to me so I think it's something that that we can look into and explore and definitely keep in mind thank you for that suggestion Walter did you have a question I have a comment I can't all of the questions I'm very concerned okay hold on what we spent for the fire for the police station that the concept of building a new garage so Walter actually the it's going to be hard to hear you unless you come to the microphone this community has a history of overspending money like it was Swiss cheese whether it be the sweat board or whether it be designed by committee we have a police station that needed a new driveway and parking lot two years after it was built I hear it has humidity issues and it costs seven million dollars you just spent two million dollars in this building and suddenly oh we're going to have to replace this like what would you spend two million bucks for so you so I'm I'm sitting here going you know as far as I'm concerned I would be more than happy to say you collect your 550 000 bucks you put it in a bucket and eventually something will shorten it to the top it says this is what we have to spend money for and and it's time to stop trying to design by committee because every architect worth his salt is going to make sure that every wish of every person gets included in that building whether it's of value or not so don't say this is our budget period and say you can't exceed this pick the things that you want that fit this budget it's no different than budgeting for the rest of it just because you're a commiss municipality and can bond for eight million dollars this might feel like this might feel like a tight fit but let me see if I've got it that one of the things you'd be cautious about paying for is a large investment in buildings unless there was and the reason you're rational or thinking behind it is it's hard to make sure that that's a sustainable plan or a systemically sustainably planned venture well the issue I have is they spent seven million dollars building a new police station and nobody bothered to mention that it would cost somewhere close to sixty grand in additional electric gas and janitorial services to take care of you're worried about you're worried about hidden costs and hidden continuing costs yeah and you and the more you do that the more you have a wonderful excuse for making sure that our budget goes up okay so ie like operating costs for a new building etc which ultimately people will find more and more efficiencies for that but part of what you're worried about is what are the hidden continuing costs even if there's an upfront thing that you can plan around and I came and made my case police station but that didn't seem to okay we're just water off a duck sack thank you so others in the room are online and I have these question prompts up here to try to guide the conversation and I've not been so successful this evening and doing that but I think that's par for the course and it's par for trying to wrap your arms around a complex situation and budgeting is not easy ken has a comment are there is there anyone online who has one um and specifically what I'm asking for is what would you be willing to pay for regarding capital needs if it meant paying more and what would you be cautious about paying for go ahead ken building the municipal building capital issue the only thing I ask is that whatever we do it's done in solidated comprehensive plan so that we're not thinking about individual buildings one by one thinking about a municipal master campus and each step we make is towards that realization and I just want to point out that yes we have all these buildings that are all over the place it's true but they aren't worth nothing so we will have let's say this building there'll be revenue from the sale of it I'll let the village is queued up for a um right at first refusal at the very least we'll have two competing bids so um there's the end of the fire station needs to be upgraded that building will be for sale also and that would go towards a consolidated campus which is really what I'd like to see us focus on so that we're not doing it piecemeal as we start to shift so shift it to something consolidated as opposed to one by one okay I see so what you'd be willing to pay for if it meant paying more is shifting towards a consolidated well with the ARPA money it'd be nice to at least use part of that to have that master plan prepared so at least we have a framework to work towards that is thought through um maybe a five or 10 year plan and then we can start looking at the individual buildings and see what we might get for the sale of it and what a new one will cost and then that expense that has to be outlaid and continue to put those buildings into the location that might be purchased under the master plan let's see if I can you look at the screen see if I've got it shifting towards a consolidated I'm just going to say building complex municipal campus and your um your idea that the underlying that is that this may require significant time energy and expense in the long term but having that master plan yeah you can work towards it yeah step by step you know so that you know we was talking about a walkable community it would be nice if all the staff could meet without riding and just walk across a parking lot imagine a complex like that where you have the police department on one side in the in the law in the end fire department public works town office maybe in a large like a mall well it could be conceived in many different municipal mall but the overall piece is if there's going to be a consolidated plan like to think about it in terms of a master plan that you can work in phases and that allows for sustainable transfer from individual buildings too big to do in one shot obviously but I'm hearing all the needs of each individual building needs to be either moved for logistic reasons or size reasons so let's plan how that's going to go thank you have the arpa money available maybe a small portion of it a few hundred thousand dollars could go towards that plan and we might get to arpa here pretty soon when you look at how I've talked about this is that is there something that you would like me to add I'm looking over here shifting towards a consolidated building complex this may require significant time energy expense in the long term master plan to work towards in phases as you indicate all the need for the individual building is mentioned right capital need that's not really how to handle yes and you're talking about how to transition from one to the next yeah it's hard that's a hard project obviously but every source we wouldn't otherwise have maybe take that opportunity thank you Kim I think there is a comment online um I see Will's hand is up and I'm also encouraging anyone who hasn't commented yet to let us know if you are sitting on a comment go ahead Will so thank you my comment is what would you be willing to pay for I just want to agree with the idea of the municipal complex and basically replacement of buildings and the reason that I think it's worth it for paying more is because first of all we have probably a once in a generation opportunity to leverage federal funds that are not going to come along again but secondly we've already seen on the energy committee that even with the help of Tom Yandau and many others who put some work into it we're not going to make those existing buildings any more efficient than they are whereas if we had if we had a new complex we could potentially be looking at net zero buildings that which would save a lot of operating cost in the long run in terms of what I would be cautious about paying for I think it actually goes to the other component of what we were talking about and that's things like new fire trucks new public works vehicles I really feel we got to look at closely whether there are opportunities to get alternative electric or alternative fuel vehicles and that we not just buy whatever is available at the time because we really need it I think we'd be better off if we could go about some of those purchases over a longer period of time and use what we have so that we can get the the latest technologies that again in the long run are going to reduce that gasoline bill that we see in the town budget each and every year and which really for the sake of the community for the sake of the planet we need to start getting that to be a lot lower thanks well I'm going to take a minute to finish up these notes and hopefully that gives a second for folks who haven't spoken yet to be able to raise their hand if they have a comment I don't see any hands does that mean that there aren't comments or just that again you can catch our attention by waving by turning off your microphone and speaking turning on your video how about in the room I guess I got why is that if you're going to speak Walter come up to the microphone please the concept that the town would build a bunch of buildings that were net zero is a complete farce the cost to build a net zero building in today's environment is extraordinarily high so you need to understand that I am going to do a little bit and so but the point is yes your building might be net zero but this building didn't get torn down so someone moves in here and this fuel use still goes on so I spent 12 million dollars to build a new one and yes I have a zero bill but I'm paying a longest number for my bond and somebody is still buying electricity and fuel to keep this one going because you're speaking about the value of in terms of net zero and the different not wanting to leave hidden you're looking at the impacts of building a net zero building Walter and I'm not looking at the impact I'm saying to you that the concept of a net zero first of all nobody should be considering getting rid of fossil fuel for at least 20 years because that doesn't make any sense at least until here's what I'm going to ask you to do so here's what I'm going to ask you to do because I think you've got something important there and I'm having a hard time I'm having a hard time catching it so when you look at these pieces what you'd be willing to pay for if it meant paying more I think what you're trying to give is a caught what you'd be cautious about paying for and that's what I'm trying to grab and I'm losing it what would you be okay so the first the first issue is you have three and a half million dollars well let's assume that you took all of the ARPA money and you wanted to build the fire station tomorrow the police station you wanted to build another police station just as an example that seven million dollar building today is between 10 and 11 million dollars and is no more efficient than what you already have so the the idea that you would replace this without spending among us money I mean big money and or a new town garage or something similar and to make them net zero means that you'll be right out there now do I think that then long run that might make sense 20 years from now absolutely I think by then the technologies will have matured and it makes a lot of sense part of what you're saying right now is that it's an overwhelming choice to be looking at given the circumstances right so if you said I'm going to I've got 3.6 million dollars I think you would be hard pressed to find a piece of property that you could technically assume was big enough to put a municipal facility on in the right place for your 3.6 million dollars and that's just the land okay so the idea that you want to invest that whole 3.6 million dollars to buy a piece of land right and then get then you're still got to fight the war here's the trick I'm having here's the trick I'm having I don't know if we're going to be able to solve it right here well no I'm not asking you to I'm just saying here's you start looking at a municipal complex kind of package forget about what the buildings cost you first of all you got to find a piece of land that you like put it in the right place that is what I can note here and I think that's where I'm probably going to have to leave it because I don't know how much else I can piece but when you're listening to this conversation about the consolidated building complex part of what you're seeing in your cost overall overly cautious about is it's a huge investment even just for the land right now or it's a huge investment up front and you're the trade officer makes I'm not sure that anybody's going to want to spend that money anytime in the near future especially given what appears to be the rate increases irregardless of what the towns is if what I hear about what's happening at the school district is true we're really going to be a deep trouble okay do you envision that this 2% is going to be the two cents is going to be three four in the next budget that's a conversation I think we have to have I mean three basically replaces what you got I think if it's me kind of number roughly and four gives you a few more dollars yeah some three and a half or some number thereabouts all right thank you very much thanks Walter as I often do I feel like there are so many nuances that I am missing that people really do want me to be capturing and so I'm going to put my apology out there that I think there are nuances in what you're saying that I am missing and also acknowledge that this conversation is so tricky it's and so nuanced that you're probably having as a group and as a town dozens of conversations at the same time and so one of the things that I'm hoping to do is chunk some of them out so that there are some clear inputs for folks who are trying to figure out how are people weighing these decisions it is complex and it might be a dream to think that we can simplify it I don't think it gets simplified I think it just gets illustrated in many different ways are there is there anybody who's online right now in particular and that's I'm saying online because there's only three in here and you've had a good amount of airtime I don't know if I'm missing comments of those of you who are in our zoom room if you haven't spoken yet and you have a comment in particular I'm looking for answers to these questions what would you be willing to pay for if it meant paying more around capital needs what would you be cautious about paying for and why please let me know there are a couple of you who I think turned off your microphones and I don't know if that was just by accident or if you're trying to catch my attention because you had a comment but if so could you turn off your microphone and say hello so that we can catch your name and your comment so that's very helpful some of you are turning your microphones off so I can see that you're that that was just an oversight thank you for that uh David are you waiting for on airtime if so the air is yours for a moment not I'm gonna move to Ross go ahead Ross yeah um I just want to have one observation about about tax increases one of the things that we're all hearing about is the affordability of of housing stock and in Vermont and it's particularly in Chittenden County and I think the board needs to be mindful of the the level of tax burden that that homeowners existing homeowners can sustain and um and what is desirable in terms of attracting new home homeowners so you're wondering this quandary wondering about what existing homeowners can sustain for their taxes in particular yeah many many of us are on fixed income and everything keeps going up um yeah and and our incomes don't go up and then if we're trying to attract new workers and and people into the community it's hard to do it when your tax rates are are really high one of the things that that attracted me to Essex when I moved here six years ago is it had a reasonably low tax rate and now I find six years later that that it's going to jump and I'm not going to turn around sell the house that I just bought yep and there's it's been a profound shift and a profound vote that took place since you moved here all I'm saying is I is is there is a limit as to as to how much you can raise taxes and it's still be palatable to both existing homeowners and new homeowners yep thanks Ross but I will point out I'm not going to hold that Walter and it's because I know there's another voice I haven't heard from yet and um because we have 15 minutes left in this meeting with ARPA funds left to go how much time do you need for your presentation it's great I'll be real quick is there any other is there any person online um around capital needs who is sitting on a comment and hadn't gotten a chance to to share it yet I think we're good there then so let's make the shift then to ARPA funds Murray I'll pass it to you and then Natalie you've been waiting since the first part of this open comment so we'll go to you next in the queue go ahead Murray um okay I have a little slide I can share in a moment um so uh yes sorry that's going to be about sharing my screen let's do that great anything I can do it out no you're fine so okay so we're just gonna go there we go to a bar out of the way um okay so I've talked about ARPA before so I'm going to be pretty quick here and essentially the biggest thing that I want to talk about just tonight is kind of um we'll give a little background here really quickly um the town received 3.2 basically 3.3 million dollars and what I want to be specific about here that we saw some questions about in the survey is that the city received its own funding that's all the town's funding that's not the town's not talking about how to spend the cities this is this is the city got its own allotment it's had its own discussions so 3.2 basically 3.3 million is is just the town so just to clarify that for everyone um and to just remind everyone that it needs to be allocated by December 31st 2024 and then spent by December 31st 2026 so that has to do with as we talk about leveraging these government funds um federal funds state funds that we've talked about a little bit here all of that has to sort of be wrapped up into those dates as well so that's just something to keep in the back of your mind as you think about different um ways to spend it or things that are on your mind and discussions to have that is that there is a bit of a clock on this so um so that's just part of that discussion on April 18th 2022 so just a few months ago the select board made a one-time irrevocable standard allowance for the ARPA funding short story is that it makes it um very flexible for us for how to spend it but there are still restrictions to how we can spend that um and they are listed here they're on our website i won't go into them here given our time um but just so that you're clear there are still some restrictions there um although we do have the most flexibility allowed for this um money that has come in um so we um just close the survey so we haven't been able to go through it totally and dig into it really but we will post it all on the website as soon as we've gotten it all downloaded and kind of gotten it in a way that we can post it on there that people can read and that's not too tiny and all of those things um but the biggest um thing sort of that we saw first was um out of the ranking the the top five is what i have here and it's infrastructure projects transportation projects town building projects tax relief and projects mitigating climate change change so that is a very very high level of this survey um and i just want to be clear about that um and we you know that data is going to be put all out there it's totally public we just have to we're just moving it right now from from the survey and we want to make sure that it's clear when we put it out there um you know people can read it and know and the less you know it's just not confusing i guess is sort of what we're going for obviously so um so with that i i'm pretty much done i just wanted to at least get that out there for folks that you know we have it was 199 folks who answered the survey um all that will be on there too um and you know i guess just thinking about that we're trying to hear from you tonight and then also next week and then we're going to go from there and sort of make a plan a little further for what our next steps might be for narrowing down what we hear or getting closer to to what you all are thinking about um yeah i think that's all i have natalie let's go right to you and see what your comment was are you still there i am i am so excited to have made it into the top five on the on the order of importance i'm five but i'm in there so um i i'm all in on the idea of tax money being well spent love the idea of efficiency what would break my heart is to see any of our city coffers yes town coffers pardon me or city coffers drained because of having to respond to the substantial cost of recovery from climate change related events and either emergency relief or or longer term disaster relief it would be impossible if you are listening to the news not to recognize that this is an accelerating emergency and i feel that um the use of some segment of our arc of funds and folks have already spoken by the way i should say will dodge entirely laid the groundwork for my comments here um i could almost step back and say nothing but i have a couple of specifics um that if we are thinking using some segment of those arpa funds around climate change mitigation because the short term gain of of not doing that the long term pain is i think difficult to comprehend for for most people i spend a lot of time working and thinking in this area so if we put some of our thinking toward weatherization development of alternative energy sources and the gentleman who spoke about the master plan and the efficiency and the money savings not that the arpa funds would come close to to funding those but perhaps a consultant could be hired pardon me to help us find the biggest bang for our buck around reducing our greenhouse gases energy efficiency ergo money efficiency over time monetary efficiency and with the double thing of helping our budget as well as um assisting in moving us away from being any substantial contributor to a global catastrophe that is evolving under our feet before our eyes so i'd love to see some of our arpa funds spent weatherization development of alternative energy sources especially solar perhaps an energy or efficiency consultant thanks for doing this thanks natalie david it looks like you have your hand up go ahead yes i i i just wanted to um i'm probably muted you're not you're you're good we can hear you fine fine okay okay um i just wanted to um to say that um i've listened to what will dodge and natalie brawn have had to say and i am a thousand percent behind them and i cannot add anything uh except that i too feel that we're we're staring down the barrel of a loaded gun and the climate is is a should should really be a top priority if at all possible i know we have thousands of different issues to deal with and they're all important but um mother nature will uh will prove to be the boss here and uh it's it's a it's certainly our it behooves us to do everything we possibly can uh to move forward in climate mitigation so thank you very much for your time thanks david are there others that we haven't heard from yet that are waiting with a comment so lorraine i see your hands up i'm just going to take another minute and just or maybe five seconds are there others online because what we're going to prepare to wrap up at 7 30 you haven't spoken yet you have something that they'd like to say go ahead lorraine or a quick comment on some of uh walters concerns i think what i'm hearing him say is his concern about sending money um wastefully and that um some of the issues that we had around the police station um maybe there's a way to make sure the contractors that we bid out to are rated and so on and so forth that there's a way to meet walters um concerns in a responsive way so that's something i'd want built into the work that we do as well 100 percent agree with the energy committee we are looking at a lot of expense in the future if we don't build resiliency now um which hopefully if we do build out or some of the capital expenses that we're we're looking at in the future like fire department and whatever we also look at um capitalizing on some of the the federal funds that will have like can add a charging station or solar panels to the roof or so on so forth to me there's a way to combine some of the funding and leverage some of that funding in terms of some of the capital projects that we have um coming down the hike thanks marine thank you so much we've got two we have five minutes left or so is there anybody else online then we'll ken and walter if not we'll fit you in will is your hand still up because you have a new comment or because it's just still up yeah just a new brief comment i i just um i appreciate the reasons why the survey was done but i just i just hope we aren't collectively daft about this and think that those are actually choices between different uh topics i mean all of those things are so complementary with one another especially uh transportation the town municipal buildings and climate change if we focus on all of those things together it is certain to help with ultimately not having this constant uh tax increases that um that i think walter and others have complained about over time the the whole point is to to be more comfortable to be more sustainable to have the community be more uh enjoyable to be in but without seeing uh costs constantly go up because we are trying to keep up against uh the global threat of climate change that's my comment thank you thanks well ken and walter ken first and walter we're on the clock so yes please so um the word leverage came up and i think that's really important we have capital projects already in the queue great example is the in the brook reservoir dam there's money for that already i've heard denis let's suggest that when we do that repair that we spend a little extra money and put in a mechanism for level control great idea for mitigating potential climate change damage if we know there's a flood coming we can lower the level buffer that change and potentially downstream save some expense so we have what in the 2019 washout we have what three or four roads washout i think it was maybe we could um limit that and make it a little less so leveraging the key for existing capital projects that's a great way to extend that at our point i'm going to add that to this to the list of capital needs as a note thanks ken go ahead walter you'll need to come up again to the microphone actually spoke to one of the items that i was thinking about which is indian book dam the four of engineer report says that should that dam fail catastrophically during a storm there will be 16 feet of water in your parking lot which would make a new building kind of imperative at that point um and the other thing is i'm assuming that mr martin or someone at the public works department can provide a list of roads that are imminently need repair so that some of that money could be used to in road repair that we might otherwise have to spread out over a significant number of years i just i just find it hard to believe at three point even though it's 3.6 sounds like a possible money it just isn't going to go very far unfortunately and but i do think that at some point you need to if you're going to do climate mitigation i think fixing indian book dam um just as ken said makes a lot of sense because it has other ramifications when you do fix it and then doing something about the roads that we might have spent money for in the future doing them now or as soon now is as reasonable given contractor requirements um makes a lot of sense as well so there there i am thank you very much thank you welter i'm going to add that as well to the capital repair uh capital needs list about um what would you be willing to pay for if it meant paying more you know assess imminent needs like road repairs and strategies to leverage current capital fund projects for climate change action like indian brook reservoir um what did you call leveling lever well not leveraging i mean the actual project indian brook project thank you very good excellent so that brings us to nine to seven thirty um so i am preparing to wrap things up but but before we go a couple things to acknowledge there is an awful lot of ground that you covered and not you know i probably only anticipated a fraction of it and what i thought might fall into neat categories but it doesn't but that's an illustration potentially of how um well it is an illustration of how complex this is and also underscores the importance of this being an iterative kind of process and an iterative discussion that takes many different forms i think to one of the folks who had called in online um the importance of having this conversation in many different ways with different people at different times to try to get as many different voices into the mix as possible oh which tonight is just the beginning so if people i'm looking at next steps now and wondering if you want to highlight or reinforce how people would stay in touch who is listening to the stuff that comes out of today um and if people weren't able to get any input or if they think about it a couple days from now and clearly you will because you're thinking we'll continue to evolve what would you do with it um a few things uh we have information on our website i can always email myself my email is g duggin du ggn at sx.org you can also email manager at sx.org we are having compiling ideas on how to use opera funds for for months now from the select board from residents from staff we will keep updating that list we will be using it to eventually put together a proposal in the near future probably tying in with the budget um we have another one of these sessions happening next week thursday august fourth at 11 30 to one trying to get a different time in there maybe at lunch break for some folks same same concepts uh we'll be here in person we'll also have the hybrid option um and then keep track of uh keep checking our website from porch forum facebook uh we try to use all those venues to get the word out about when meetings are happening when um we're collecting input and we are always open to new ideas of how to do that too so um same same outreach manager at sx.org it's probably the best way to share some of those ideas and keep them coming thank you all for giving up a nice summer night to be here with us that is appreciated and thanks for the comments and um do he help to hope to keep keep hearing from everybody as as we go through this process over the next few months so thank you