 Coming up on DTNS, why all those privacy popups on your phone are actually working a solution to nav apps that don't tell you what lane to be in. And Lamar settles the question of whether he should buy or build a gaming PC. This is the Daily Tech News for Friday, January 24th, 2020 in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And from Studio Redwood, I'm Sarah Lane. Drawing the top tech stories. Lamar Wilson, that's okay. And I'm Len Peral to draw the top tech stories from Cleveland, Ohio. I'm Roger Chang, the show's producer. That was literally my fault. No, no, it's because we're all old. We were just talking about how old we are, how tall we are. Movies we're watching. It's all a good day internet. Become a member at patreon.com slash DTNS to get that wider conversation. Get to know us a little better. Let's start with a few tech things you should know. Google announced its next IO developer conference will take place on May 12th through May 14th. Users participated in Google's annual IO teaser, which this year was a collaborative online game to restore a fictional satellite network with the final constellation of satellites spelling out the date. IO 2020 will be at the Shoreline Amphitheater in Mountain View, California. No, that's where the doobie brothers play. Hey, love them. Sonal CEO Patrick Spence published a statement clarifying the company's earlier announcement that it will stop delivering software updates to older products in May. Spence reiterated that all effective products will continue working after May with Sonal's providing bug fixes and security patches as long as possible. He also stated if we run into something core to the experience that can be addressed, we'll work to offer an alternative solution and let you know about any changes you'll see in experience. How nice. Intel announced it earned $1.52 per share in Q4 and revenue of $20.2 billion up 8% on the air beating expectations. People were saying best Intel stuff since the dot com era. Revenue in Intel's data center group rose 19% on the year to $7.2 billion. Thanks to a lot of demand from people in the cloud services industry for those chips. IoT, Mobile Eye, Intel's memory group and PC centric revenues were also all up on the year. The only downspot was Intel's programmable solutions division that includes the FPGAs. That division fell 17%. Reuters sources say that the U.S. Commerce Department withdrew a rule to further reduce sales to Huawei after the Defense Department cited concerns about the impact on U.S. businesses. The U.S. has restricted trade with Huawei since last May. Alright, let's talk a little more about the Verge who has been on top of the story of third-party content moderators, contract moderators. This time Lamar, it appears to be about the YouTube moderators. Absolutely, this is the only reason I'm here today. The Verge discovered that YouTube content moderators at Accenture are asked to sign a document acknowledging that the job can cause post-traumatic stress disorder. Accenture distributed the document to its workers in its Austin, Texas offices on December 20th, four days after the Verge published an investigation into PTSD among workers at the facility. The document reads, I understand the content I will be reviewing may be disturbing. It is possible that reviewing such content may have impact my mental health, and it could even lead to post-traumatic stress disorder, otherwise known as PTSD. I will take full advantage of the We Care program and seek additional mental health services if needed. I will tell my supervisor and or HR PR advisor if I believe that the work is negatively affecting my mental health. The Verge points out that under the Occupational Safety and Health Act of 1970 or OSHA, employers are required to provide a workplace that is free of hazards that can cause serious harm or death. And the Verge taking the position in its article that perhaps this is Accenture trying to push off responsibility onto the workers or scare them into not seeking remedial action against Accenture for the damage that might be caused to them. And OSHA requires that the employer be responsible for that. And I think you can make an argument both ways. Certainly it's not the employee's responsibility to make the workplace safe 100%. It's everybody including the employer's responsibility to do that, and the employer bears the ultimate responsibility. And yeah, the law says that it is the company that is on the hook for any safety violations. On the other hand, putting out this acknowledgement is something that Accenture I think is doing because they realize it's the right thing to do to make sure that people know how dangerous this kind of moderation might be to their mental health. Now granted, they seem to be only realizing the need to tell people about that after the Verge pointed it out. That doesn't make it any less the right thing to do. But where I want to go with this conversation is what should a company be doing if it's providing moderation? Whether it's first party, Google, Facebook or otherwise, or whether it's a company like Accenture that provides these kinds of third party contract services for lots of companies in lots of different arenas. If you're dealing with traumatic stuff on the internet and we all want that traumatic stuff to be looked at and removed if necessary, what are the parameters to make that a safe working place? Is there one? I think there's a couple. Oh, sorry, go ahead, Lamar. Okay, this will be quick. Yeah, so let's talk about what they do support, right? So they say their employees are given a wellness coach, a hotline to call, and a human resources department. Now, again, we got to make sure that wellness coach is not anybody who's really certified to do that. It's just a coach who's not a medical doctor who can diagnose you properly. So maybe that's problem number one. It sounds good on paper, but could that wellness coaches be someone that they call on the phone and just say, hey, hang in there. We're not without actually addressing the serious problem. So they do have some things. They might refer you to a physician. I mean, these are employees with health insurance after all. Yeah. I have a couple problems with this. And I agree that it is the right thing for a company to be like, hey, if you're going to work here, there might be some some really bad stuff. It might affect you. It might affect you to the point that you get post-traumatic stress disorder or have severe mental health issues. Here are the resources that we're giving you as a company. Here's what we hope that you will take advantage of that and let your supervisor know if any of this is happening. That is fine. That is fine on paper. The first problem I have with it, though, is if you're actually experiencing that kind of stress, are you capable of utilizing resources that are offered you? I don't know. I have never worked in a position like this, but I would venture a guess that at some points, you're out of whack to the point that just because a wellness coach is available to you, it didn't actually help you and you're not actually better. The second issue I have is this makes sense for a new employee, absolutely. Like, hey, man, this job might be tough, not for everybody. You need to know what's going on here. And the person has a little bit of a, well, maybe this isn't for me. But if you already work there and all of a sudden now this thing is coming across your desk and you're supposed to sign it saying, yeah, I realize what's going on. I mean, how far into stress have you gotten at that point? And that's where the verge used the word forcing employees, and I'm not sure that's the right word to use, but the pressuring an employee to sign something where they might already be deep into an issue, that doesn't sit well with me. Yeah. And I feel like they should have kind of had this talk and signing when you got hired them versus months later, you know, someone should know that they're getting into this and hey, this might not be the job for you because you know right up front. I know some people in our chat room are like, wait a minute, why isn't Google employing these people directly, etc. And yes, in some cases, that's very true. Sometimes these third party organizations are a little bit fly by now. And Accenture is not one of them. Accenture is a publicly traded company. It's a huge employer. They provide average benefits. I'm not going to praise them. I'll have a friend who works for them. So this isn't a case where it's offloading it to be super cheap. It's offloading it for expertise and liability prevention. And Accenture is good at that kind of liability prevention. That said, I totally agree, they should have done this before. This is all new territory where we're starting to realize that even though it sounds like a less serious job content moderation, it shares some of the same dangers as law enforcement or emergency spots or working in a war zone because of the images you see. And I think that is the part that people aren't quite getting is that this is a very serious job that you need specific training for and you need specific health care available for. And having a wellness coach is great as long as there's also more serious care available after that. So the wellness coach can say this is all you need now or no, your situation is more serious. I'm going to refer you to a physician. So it's a very complex problem. And some post job help will be nice. A lot of them will quit or get fired. If they have to leave for, yes, absolutely. And there were some parts of this acknowledgement that made it sound like, hey, if this isn't the job for you, then there's the door and that's not okay. If you took this job and the job makes you incapable of doing it, it's the company's responsibility to take care of that. And a lighter note, a new report from the analyst firm Location Sciences estimates that since the launch of iOS 13, the amount of background location data gathered by marketers dropped by 68%, with foreground location sharing down 24%. This is attributed to the pop up windows introduced in iOS 13, which allows users to opt into either one time foreground or background location sharing. Location Sciences CBO Jason Smith predicts that this drop will likely spur more marketers to use IP addresses for location information, which don't indicate a precise location. They can also be masked by things like VPNs. When contacted by a fast company about the report, a Google spokesperson said that when they were presented with the option to share location data, only when actively using an app, Android users select the option about 50% of the time. So those annoying pop ups work is what this means. Because what's really interesting about this to me is iOS has had this option to say only use when I'm active, only use in the background, never use for a long time. But it was iOS 13 that put it in front of you and forced you to deal with it and started to tell you when it was happening in the background, are you sure you want that? And that made all the difference where people didn't have to think to go hunt for it. Instead, they're like, Oh, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I don't want that to have access to my location. I think people like information. I like the information popping up to let me know. Hey, my Bluetooth. I'm at the Apple store may use your Bluetooth data or something. And it's like, or just some random app like yeah, why do they need that? So no, I will turn that off or some location data. So I think even for Apple users who do like simplicity, the more information, the better. And that's always been my position on it. I just like to know. Yeah, the annoyance of the popups only, they really don't want to annoy me that much. But just every once in a while it'll be like Fitbit is using your location. Still cool. And I'm like, you've asked me four times. But yes, it is still cool. And I would rather be like mildly annoyed for a millisecond and have more control over what's going on rather than kind of forget what location sharing I have shared with a variety of apps that are on my phone that I might not want anymore. And I'll just add that a lot of times we talk about companies putting in a fix for something and they don't know if it works or not. They're just doing it for the optics. They're doing it because it looks good. This is a situation where a company did something. I don't know if they knew it would work or not. If they had any evidence, but it worked. It actually made a difference. And so I think that's worth calling out. GPS driven navigation instructions are notorious at not preparing you for lane choice. How many times have you got to the right to exit only to find out it's a left exit? Or you choose the right lane to exit only to find out there are three lanes exiting on the right and the one you need is two over to the left. Google and others have done some things to help you choose your lane, but research from MIT might just eliminate the confusion all together. Scientists at MIT worked with Qatar Computing Research Institute to design a system called road tagger that uses neural networks to analyze satellite images. Now that's not new using neural networks to say, oh, that's where the lanes are isn't new, but often those satellite images don't show all of the road or all of the lanes because there are trees or buildings or other things in the way. What they did here was use those neural networks to predict what roads and lanes were hidden by trees and buildings and such. The system counted obscured lane numbers with 77% accuracy and road types like highway versus residential with 93% accuracy. The group wants to use road tagger to predict other features like bike lanes, parking spots, stuff like that. And the idea is to eventually generate high quality up to date digital maps for any place on the planet without having to send a car around with a camera on top of it because that's expensive. Look, I live in LA. We need this. We need this so bad. I will say in Google Maps, and I believe in Apple Maps too, of the last year, I've known, well, maybe in Apple Maps in the last year, that's what I primarily use. They have said, you know, or shown on the car app that, hey, there's three lanes here or they tell you get in the right lane now. And so that information is so invaluable because sometimes I don't know if it's left or right. But anything more precise, especially in this crazy city, Sarah and Tom can agree. Well, I mean, yeah, I do not disagree with you. I no longer live in Los Angeles, but I did for many years and I did not find GPS to really lead me astray all that often. Now, who knows, like maybe I'm just the best driver on the planet, but I doubt that. I found that, you know, with the combination of ways and Google Maps and Apple Maps, you know, I'd used all three depending on kind of, you know, how I was calling up wherever I was going to go. For the most part, yeah, it's like, you know, it would tell me, like, stay in the right second from the right lane of the three lanes. Like I felt like I had a pretty good amount of information and it didn't lead me astray all that often. That said, something that this would work really well for and has burned me a million times is construction where you're like, oh, I can't go through here. That's not up to date yet. So anything that's real time would solve the problem of me being like, now I'm under a free way. I have to be up there. I can't get around the construction. So it would come in real handy. Well, and you're right. That is the key aspect of this. Cutter is involved in this because they are hosting the World Cup in a couple of years and they are notorious for frequent construction and lane changes and reconfiguring the roads. And that's going to happen a lot around the World Cup. So they need this technology by then. All right, let's talk about London London's put metropolitan police announced that they will begin using live facial recognition cameras from any sea in areas, most likely to locate serious offenders. The camera will be used in five to six hour intervals, looking for individuals from a list of suspects wanted for serious and violent crimes. Cameras will be signposted with police handing out leaflets on the technology. The med said that in a 10 test of the cameras, the system was able to identify faces that passed in front of the camera about 70% of the time with the false positive rate of one in 1000. An independent review of the University of Essex Human Rights Center found that only eight out of 42 matches were verifiably correct. Different numbers there. Yeah. Well, different measurement to write one one is false positive rate. The other is verifiably correct. That's different ends of the stick there. And, you know, depending on which end of the stick you're measuring, you might get a more favorable measurement. We talked about this a lot on Tuesday show with Patrick Beja about the idea of whether facial recognition should be banned, what it might be good for what it might not. Lamarie, how do you feel about this? So yeah, I have a few points on this on the cover. The first one is my understanding, I don't live in London, obviously, but my understanding was they were already kind of notorious for having cameras everywhere. So it would just be something that people would not be, will be shocked about. Well, the cameras surveilling versus facial recognition, two different things. This is one where it's not just you're on tape and they can go back later and look and see if they recognize you. It's an instant tell the police this person is here. Okay. Yeah, I was I was just thinking like how would the average person know that that's happened. But I see what you're saying. If they see a camera, they probably are blind to them at this point. As a Bobby comes up to you with a flyer, apparently. Exactly. Yeah, the whole kind of like, you know, sign posted cameras so no one, you know, there's no cameras that are supposedly hidden from the public. I guess the pessimistic view is, well, if somebody is, you know, on the lamb after a violent crime, they're going to avoid stuff like this. I think that might be the point. Yeah. There may be more about making criminals feel like surveillance is out there and start to get paranoid about it than it is actually using the facial recognition to catch anybody. Otherwise, yeah, why would you put up so many signs and why would you go to the extent of putting out flyers granted for public outreach and try to keep people from being upset because everybody wants to ban facial recognition. But also you may do it because you want to make people feel like, yeah, this is everywhere. You have nowhere to hide. Yeah. Now, for me, the match rate is definitely concerning. You know, what is it, 842 or whatever. But so it's hoped that if they find someone, they do additional checks before busting down their door and start shooting, you know, like, like, I would think there's just another layer for that. So. They'reifiably correct. That's where that becomes very important. Yeah, exactly. That's my issue with it. And to be fair, London police say they will not be using this to determine something. It's a lead to say, hey, that person you're looking for might be over there. Go check. Yeah. Hopefully that's what they do. Yesterday, we talked about Google changing some design on paid ads in search. And now the company is changing that newly created presentation of paid search results on the desktop. As we mentioned, Google had changed the paid results to look like regular results, but with a little ad icon in the upper left where a publisher's favicon would otherwise go. And a tweet, Google said, quote, we heard your feedback about the update. We always want to make search better. So we're going to experiment with new placements for favicons. The test will try different placements of the icons, although they don't really say what those different placements might be. I mean, you only have so many choices. Yeah. And the left is on the right. You know, lower left. Well, but this is the interesting thing. This is for desktop. This change already happened on mobile more than a year ago and nobody minds it apparently. And what Google is saying is we tested this on mobile. It was fine. We put it on mobile. It was fine. We tested on desktop. Seemed to be fine. We put it out. People are upset. So we're going to try it out in different ways to see if there's a better way to do it. But all the ways they said they would do it, like not having the icon at all. I'm like, okay, but what replaces it? I need a few more details there. Sure. I was mentioning on the show when we were talking about it yesterday, the color block, while, you know, no designer would be like, that looks great. It does, you know, make it very, very clear. Okay. This is an ad and then, you know, search results are different from that. That is probably the most obvious option. But assuming that Google is like, well, we're not doing that. So what can they do that is an elegant solution, but also doesn't seem like they're trying to trick anybody. Yeah. And I'm not sure what that answer is. Lamar, what do you think? I actually don't have an answer. I think the color is a great idea. I think they had that years ago, right? Yeah, they did. Yeah. So yeah. My only pessimistic idea of this is that how fast they turned around as late. Oops. You all don't like this. And I feel like they knew already and it already had like a plan, a plan being out. I don't know. Yeah. So yeah, the worst design is going to be the one where the people are like, well, at least they listened. They know what they're doing. That tail's wagging the dog. All right, folks, if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, don't forget you can subscribe to DailyTechHeadlines.com. GDC released its annual survey of developers and the results are not surprising. 56% of respondents said they were developing their games for PC. That led the way. 39% said they're developing for mobile. 11% for the PS5, 9% for the Xbox, 6% for Stadia, and 3% for Project XCloud from Microsoft. Those are brand news, so that doesn't really surprise me either. It does, however, reflect the reality that PC gaming is still the most widespread, which brings us to the fact that you need a PC for gaming. Lamar, you recently needed to get a new gaming PC. Build, buy, what did you decide? So I decided on buy, Tom, because the reason is nobody got time for that. People may not realize this, you always build. I did. 15 years, I actually did it as a business back in the 90s, and I built computers back then, and I built my own up to 2011 or so. And then I was just like, why am I still doing this? And I think Roger mentioned this earlier. The cost ratio has got down so low that, yeah, I could save a few hundred bucks doing it myself. But I do have a few reasons of it. The first thing is just time value. Somebody else could do it better and more accurate than I can do. And quicker than, for me, for my business, it's just more valuable. I don't mind paying a premium for that. And I don't know, the last one was a little bit more controversial, and there's no offense to anyone. But I just don't have the ego at my age that I may have had 20 years ago about it. Some people have built their systems. If you don't build your own system, you're not a real gamer. Right. If it wasn't harder, you didn't try hard enough. You don't care. Yeah. It's like, dude, my ego is not that fragile. If I can, you know, whoever built it, if I can game on it, then I'm a gamer. And so that's just how I view it. I respect the people who built theirs. Don't get me wrong. Some people love doing it. They love getting their hands dirty. I do not at 42 anymore. So I'm buying a system. And if I get to pay a premium, I got to pay a premium. That's just how I look at most things in life. I need somebody to clean, do deep cleaning. I don't know how to, I'm terrible at deep cleaning. I might hire somebody to do it. I think that's probably one of the, the, you know, a dissident would say, well, but you could do it so much cheaper if you do it yourself. But time is money. Right. And you're saying, listen, at this point, it's not actually worth it to me. And I'm getting a system that I would have made anyway. And it just kind of gets delivered to me. And I can game all that much sooner. Yep. That's just kind of how I feel on it. Roger. I will add that at least my own personal experience that if you build your you're pulling components from a number of different manufacturers. And depending on who you buy it from, you may or may not get a warranty that covers that particular product. So if something goes and just takes, just craps out on you, you're going to be left holding the bag because now you got to deal with that particular manufacturer. If you buy it from a company, typically they have a warranty that covers everything. So you're not running around trying to chase, you know, after a warranty. And more importantly, if you buy something like an Alienware or what used to be Omen from HP, they would still offer out a lot of security updates for their system. Like I have a gigabyte board in my PC. And the year after I bought it, they came out with the whole Spectre meltdown, you know, scare. And the Spectre one was where you actually needed a microcode patch. They stopped supporting my board literally six months after I bought it. So anyone who bought that year board, which is literally one year away, didn't get the patch. Anyone who bought from six months or six months later did get their systems patched. So it was very hodgepodge. My Dell laptop, which I bought like four years before the Spectre meltdown, was still covered and Dell was still issuing out security patches for it. So from a security perspective, you know, some of the larger companies that do just sell PCs as a business have an interest in keeping a lot of those security updates still going. So you're saying you might get better security update coverage if you bought a machine rather than build it because you're dealing with a company that has invested interest in keeping it secure versus a part maker, right? Yes, exactly. Yeah. And honestly, don't get us wrong. I don't think any of us are saying don't build. If you find it fun, if it's a good hobby, if you love the challenge and you love the pursuit and picking the parts and putting it together, you should keep doing it. There's nothing wrong with it. But I think going back to what you were saying Lamar, the idea that you could save a lot of money, that's kind of over. You may or may not save money and it may or may not be worth your time if you're not getting enjoyment out of it. And the bragging rights of it I've always felt was like, you know, I don't hand code the RSS feed for Daily Tech News Show and neither does Roger because you know what, that's inefficient. If that's your only reason, like I don't know that that's such a good reason either. But that said, you know what, if you enjoy building it, that's the best reason to build your own gaming PC because then you know it well. You know the parts. You're able to fix it yourself easier because you built it. There are still advantages to it. It just doesn't have those overwhelming advantages that 15, 20 years ago it absolutely did. Yeah. And I just think that the whole era of shaming people for not building their own system or whatever. It's just, yeah, some people still do that. And it's just like, you know, let that go. It doesn't matter. I didn't build my own car either, but it's fine. Well, I did. So shame on you. You know what, Tom? You don't care enough clearly. You don't care enough about that. You're not a real driver. Shame driving around in a Toyota that I didn't build myself. I actually had somebody, this isn't hardware based, but it's, you know, just as an aside before we move on. Somebody the other day I was mentioning some sort of, you know, way that I've, I, I, I deal with something technical and he was like, you know, it would be so much easier in the command line. And I was like, I know it would, but instead I bought a software program. Well, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't right. The other day I was, I'm like, it is to you. I, I'm busy. Do it a show. And if you know the commands, like I just installed homebrew on my Mac the other day and I was like, Oh man, it's so cool to be able to just command line install stuff. But that's not true for everything because sometimes you're like, wait, how do I install this? Where do I go? Where do I get the packages? Like it all depends. Every situation is different. Exactly. Sometimes command line stories come into our subreddit. All the tech stories that you want to submit and vote on dailytechnewshow.reddit.com is where to send those stories. Let us know what you care about. Also joining the conversation in our discord and talk to your fellow DTNS peers about what you care about by linking to a patreon account at patreon.com slash DTNS. Got some good stuff in the mailbag today. We sure did. So Brad wrote in about our conversation on Wednesday with Scott Johnson. He said, Scott made an offhand plea against facing passenger seating and self-driving cars, meaning kind of like a train where like two would be facing the back and two would be facing the front. Brad says, I'm a huge booster of the idea though with a restaurant, a booth style seating, self-driving cars could do that RV thing. Lower the table, provide a sleeping service. A rider could tuck themselves in on a Friday night and be at Disney Land on Saturday morning. Overnight travel is one of the most exciting concepts of self-driving cars. I want that life. You know, I hadn't really thought about long distance travel with all the miss vehicles until Brad, you wrote in. That was a good thought. Yeah. I don't want to be sharing this vehicle, which is what the concept that we were talking about originally was about. I don't want to be sleeping next to somebody. I don't know. Unless it's, you know, you have your family members. But the situation Brad's talking about is pretty cool. I do like that. Especially because I mean, I love a good train, but they're very limited at least in the U.S. I mean, where can I take a train? Not that many places, but this could, this could really open up some, some, some travel that, that takes longer than what I could do myself. Yeah. Nice, nice, Brad. Good, good thinking there. Shout out to all our patrons at our master and grandmaster levels, including Jeff Wilkes, Sonya Vining and Tony Glass. Let's check in with Len Peralta, who has been busily drawing during our show. What have you drawn for us today, Len? Well, I was most taken with the story that you started with, which was very serious, of course, about YouTube moderators. And the first thing that came to my mind was Clockwork Orange. I don't know if anybody's ever seen that movie, Stanley Kubrick, but this image is called like, comment, subscribe, hurt. And it depicts an image of Malcolm McDowell in that classic scene being handed a PTSD waiver while he's watching all these awful things that are... Len, this is like an editorial cartoon. Like this is really... It is an editorial cartoon. Super detailed. Super great. Yeah, wow. Oh, and the sign here, thanks. Yeah, this is pretty awful. Yeah. I know this is from a movie you said? Yes, Clockwork Orange. It's Stanley Kubrick's. And actually, that movie, this particular scene is about desensitizing people to violence. And this is how they did it in that film. It's really kind of awful to watch. And it sort of reminded me of that. So if you would like to actually get this print, it's actually available right now at my patreon, patreon.com, Ford's Life. Or you can go to my online store, lennparaltestore.com, and just check it out. If you want to purchase it, that would be awesome too. But thank you so much for this incredible story. It's really heartbreaking. Thank you, Len. Thank you so much. Well, thank you, Len, as always. And also thank you to Lamar Wilson for being with us on this fine Friday. Lamar, what's been going on and where can people keep up with it? All I've been doing is playing Dragon Ball Z Kakarata the whole week. That's my whole life. But if you want to look at my actual business life, I'm mostly on YouTube.com slash Lamar Wilson, where I do tech gaming. It was some food fun when I feel like doing that. Or on my Instagram at Lamar Wilson. Check me out. Thanks. Excellent. Go check it out, folks. Also, don't forget, there are benefits to being a member of DTNS. You get commercial free access to the feed. You get good day internet as an option. There's a bunch of other things. In fact, if you stick as a member at various levels, we have some six-year anniversary merchandise that you can get. It'll be just automatically shipped to you after your third month at a level. Could be a poster, a mug, a t-shirt, a sticker. It depends on the level, but it all has the art that Len Peralta created to celebrate our sixth year being completed of Daily Tech News Show. And the way you become a member and get any of all of those benefits is patreon.com slash DTNS. If you've got feedback for us, our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. If you want to join us live, we'd love to have you. Let's all break the fourth wall together. Monday through Friday, 4.30 p.m. Eastern, 21.30 UTC. You can find out more at dailytechnewshow.com slash live. See you Monday. Bye. This show is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. Hope you have enjoyed this brover.