 Yes, hey guys, so Patrick. Thanks for doing the interview. It's awesome And thanks for sharing your story too about like your conversion like coming back to you I think it's cool to be able to do especially in a community where you know, that's not necessarily the predominant view So I like this but I get a kick out. I'm like a masochist. I like this You know could you just talk about that kind of epistemological point of the package dealing that happens I think that was helpful for me in clarifying a lot of things with that. I ran talked about Yeah, so we have a lot of concepts out there So concepts think of concepts as like a fire folder in your mind Well, we put different things and then when we refer to that concept we open up the folder and pull things out and part of the problem is that That we have in this fire folder called selfish. We have very conflicting things So people think of Bill Gates or any rich person right a selfish. Why? Well because they pursued their passion because they made a lot of money So that that's kind of a good thing in a sense. I don't think of it as good But it's in that file folder, but also in that file folder is booty made of right scumbag Pimate schema liar cheetah and everything. So you have in one folder You have all these examples of of good things pursuing your own values trying to be happy You know all of us are most of the day concerned about their own happiness concerned about their own family I always tell audiences right your kids are in the pool the neighbors kids in the pool. They're drowning. Who do you say first? And everybody says I say my kids now the only difference between them and me is I say my kids And I don't feel guilty about that they save their own kids But they feel guilty about it because they morality tells them they should have saved the neighbors kids first Because because you have to love your neighbor just like yourself. So there's no difference between the neighbors kids and your kids So we all have a sense of selfishness. We all pursue our self-interest But we also think that self-interest is associated with lying cheating and stealing. It's also so with Bernie Madoff That's the culture, right? So we have a majority majority majority. That's what I'm saying the majority out there So so every time you sell selfishness the thing that pops into the head is Bernie Madoff. It's it's lying cheating stealing It's nasty people and what I ran to saying is clean it up clean the folder, right? We need to create a different folder for Bernie Madoff because there's something inherently different about what Bernie Madoff does And what Bill Gates does or what Steve Jobs does there's something inherently different between being productive and taking care of your life And using your mind to make your life a better than lying cheating and stealing so let's create a separate folder for the lying cheating stealing Bastards, right? Let's call it self-destruction and let's have self-interest clean, right? Real self-interest long-term self-interest rational self-interest using your reason to pursue your own flourishing So conceptually we need to clean up our concepts and and and therefore then we can use these terms and People will understand us a part of our job is just just housekeeping