 Hello and welcome to Tomorrow Space, everybody! Orbit 12.33. Very glad to have you all watching here today. It's going to be a particularly interesting episode because we have Robin Hague, the lead engineer of Skyrora, a small sat launcher that's currently in the United Kingdom, getting sort of underway with everything that they have. And Robin, there is quite a aerospace history in the United Kingdom itself, so it's not just like something that's suddenly popping on the scene. Aerospace has been involved there for a very long time. Yes, yes, so we've had a very strong aviation industry, but we do actually have a history of launch vehicles as well. Unfortunately, it was cut off. We're the only country to have developed the capability of putting things into orbit and then willfully cancelled it again. So there was a launch of a UK satellite by UK vehicle, Black Arrow, in October 1971. And that was it. So we are hoping that we will be the first ones up since then, the first new British launch vehicle. And with the Black Arrow program, what were sort of the specifics of it? Was it just get something into space, or was it going to be something more, and then it got cut off prematurely? It was a technology demonstrator. So in the mid 50s, UK and US decided to cooperate on developing missile systems that were appropriate for our ranges. So while the US was doing Atlas, UK was doing Blue Streak as an intermediate range ballistic missile that suited the distance that we needed to launch over. And an extra program was set up in parallel of small vehicles, starting with Black Knight to investigate re-entry for the payloads from the missiles. And Black Knight stood about 30, 40 foot tall, three foot across, and flew, as Black Arrow ultimately did, in the desert in Australia from Aurora. And it was a very successful program such that the UK, we were actually the world leaders in re-entry science at the time and the US came and joined our program. And ultimately, Blue Streak became the basis of the first joint European launcher after it was canceled as a missile. And the government organization, RAE, Royal Aircraft Establishment, that was the program authority for Black Knight, succeeded in getting the go-ahead to try and create a technology demonstrating launch vehicle out of the Black Knight technology. So Blue Streak was like Atlas, it was begun with licensed Atlas technology. So it was Keralocks, but Black Arrow and Black Knight were based on hydrogen, peroxide, and kerosene, which was an unusual propellant combination that became something of a UK specialty. And it's actually what we're looking to use at Scarora. It's what we're working on because it gives a number of advantages across the vehicle and across the vehicle operation. But we've actually been involved in recovering Black Arrow because it was flown from South Australia into a polar orbit going northwards. The first stage actually came down on land and was recovered and put on display in a town park in the outback for 40 years. And we've been involved in bringing it back to the UK. The footage that you saw of Black Arrow launching that same first stage after it's been up to 54 kilometers and then fallen back without a parachute. It's in a surprisingly good condition. So we're hoping we can get that into a suitable National Museum suit. But that's been fascinating to see that real hardware. And while we don't have a direct design link to see the heritage, the peroxide kerosene UK engine heritage that we're building upon. And with aerospace in the UK today, what's it look like? Because I know there's been announcements of potential launch sites in various places around the UK. But is there sort of a homegrown space flight capability that's coming back? Or is it just primarily looking at launch sites? Snow, there's a number of companies at various stages of development. We like to think that we're at the front of that field. But yes, there's a number of companies that they're interested in creating launches in the UK and flying them from the prospective launch site. This is a tremendous turnaround. After the cancellation of the government programs in the 70s, the government really focused on satellite technology. And we have a very strong, long standing satellite and space probe supply chain and industry in the UK, which it has not actually been that widely recognized by the public. But now since about 2010, there's been a turnaround of a big interest in having UK launch. Because then that means that we can supply the entire entire package of payloads, developments, spacecraft constructions, spacecraft launch operations, and actually the downlink in the big data projects as well. Yeah, because the UK's had a lot of collaboration with Europe. Is that something that's sort of going to be continuing in the aerospace industry in the near future? Yes. Yes. So ESA is not part of the European Union. So fortunately, it's unaffected by whatever might happen in the next few weeks. And sort of moving over to talking about Skyrora now, since we got a little bit of the historical foundation of where the company's coming from. From our YouTube chat room, AstroYYZ is actually asking, can you explain where the name Skyrora comes from? Because that's a pretty cool name, I got to say. It was one of the founders who came up with it, as they were just trying to put together something concerning Skyrocket and Space. It's an abstract name, but I think it's worked out very well. And with what you are attempting to do, it's essentially a small SAT capability. Is that what it is? Yes. Yes. We're looking to be able to put around 300 kilos up into, as a reference, a 500 kilometre, some synchronous orbit from the north of Scotland. There are three contenders for being launch sites from Scotland, all across the north, because it's the only place there where we've gotten an uninterrupted track up over the pole. And we're friends with all three. We're waiting to see who ultimately is in a position to let it launch. And with the market so full of small SAT launchers, because that's something that just can't sort of be gotten around right now, what separates Skyrora from everybody else who is chomping at the bit right now to get a piece of the action in the upcoming small SAT industry? So at this stage, we feel we've made the important step because there's, I think, last count, what, 120 projects or something of different companies at different stages? An awful lot of them are websites and PowerPoints, but we've moved into real hardware. We've got our upper-stage engine tested. Our next larger engine is under construction. We've been flying electronics in small vehicles using cheap quick commercial off-the-shelf solid rocket motors. But the significant thing is that we do now have our own bioliquid rocket engines. Yeah, I was actually going to ask you about the flight tests that you've done with those rockets, specifically what you do with them. And then also myself and Dutta on the show, we actually are licensed high-power rocketry hobbyists here in the United States. So when I was reading up about the motors that those flew on, I was like, oh, yeah, I've seen a couple of those motors fly here in the desert in California before. So is there a distinct advantage in using stuff that is commercially off the shelf? Most definitely. It's a cheaper and quicker way of putting electronics in a real flight environment. When for that matter, the rapid acceleration and vibration of solid rocket motors is going to be, is a tougher environment than our bioliquid vehicles will be subject to the electronics and the payload suit. But one of the most important things, even dealing with relatively small vehicles, like you will see some of the pictures of, is just the sheer experience of getting something launched because there isn't that much experience of that in the UK. And the vehicles so far have been certainly of a scale that you'll be very familiar with from the deserts in the US because you have so much more space to fly vehicles like that. We're now pushing on with the next one up where it is still the commercially available solid rocket motors pushing up to about 30 kilometers, something like that, which will be the, we believe, the highest and fastest civilian rocket launched within the UK so far. And probably as high as we can possibly go on land for our land recovery. After that, we're onto the coast, onto one of the prospective launch sites. But it does make such a difference to the speed and the confidence of the team to be doing real practical stuff and not just gradually taking years working towards the big vehicles in the end. So it's not necessarily just about flying the hardware and seeing how the hardware is going to react when you put it in an environment like that. It's also sort of getting the team of people set up and learning how to do launch operations. Yeah. The procedural approach, even with a small vehicle, treating a small vehicle like a large one. And after our next one, that we're working towards the 30 kilometer one, which should be reasonably soon, we have then the perfect stepping stone from the solids onto the bi-liquids because it's a hybrid, a hydrogen peroxide hybrid called Sky High. And then that one will be taking us up to sort of 80 kilometers scale, 80 kilometers altitude, pushing into genuine near space territory. And what have you learned from the tests besides the operations and seeing how the electronics run? Have you had any surprises during these test flights? I mean, the flights themselves have gone quite well. I myself and a number of other people have been involved in relatively large high power rocketry, such that can be fitted in the UK previously. So the flights have gone well. And the predictions of the flights have gone well. One of the unexpected benefits so far of these vehicles is we have found the outer limits of the legislation, of the regulations, because there's a tremendous will to intent to have launched a space from the UK. But the regulations are still being developed, the legal situation is still being developed. And our next vehicle up micro that was just second in the lineup that you could see on the screen is currently we're working with the CEA in the UK Space Agency on the vehicle of that size to determine how we go about getting permission and regulating it and all that sort of thing. Well, how do you go about getting permission and regulating that? Because here in the United States, we have a lot of stuff established. So I'm sure a lot of our viewers in the United States aren't probably aware of what it took to regulate all of that. So specifically in the United Kingdom, since you're on the ground game, you are at the beginnings of the flight program, I guess, a good way to describe it. What does that take? Are you working directly with governments? And you're basically saying, you know, this is how these work? And do you start literally down at the lowest level and kind of work your way up? Do you include everybody all at once? How do you develop those regulations? So the UK Space Agency is working on that at the moment. The CEA is our aviation authority, like the FAA. And those two are working together because then they will be managing from an air traffic and a space traffic point of view. And so we're then cooperating with them, but also amongst larger industry bodies within the UK of everyone that's got an interest, the people up to be the spaceport, so the people that want to do the launching across the board, we're trying to find the way through, because we have a legislation half in place. The Space Industry Act is started, but the fine detail of it is not complete yet. So it's an opportunity because we have a new, we have a blank sheet to then look at everybody else's best practice and put together a good legislative regime. And talking a little bit about the opportunity for flights and the type of flights you can do, Little Cripple in our YouTube channel is asking our polar orbits the target or are there other plans? And I would imagine launching equatorially from Scotland may be a bit of a problem because you've got Europe, property, all those countries to the east of you there. So UK, it's only polar and something we're looking at from the British spaceport, but our system is designed to be as user-friendly, as flexible, as low impact as possible. So we certainly could look at going to an equatorial spaceport as well in future once things are up and running, but our big focus is to be able to launch the small payloads from the UK spaceport. Yeah, and actually Astro IYZ and our YouTube channel is asking another really great question, which is would Skyrora be interested in returning to doing flights in the Romero range in Australia, perhaps partnering up with the new Australian Space Agency to do that? Well, we're always interested to speak to anyone about launching and Australia provides an excellent place in which to do it. I know that Romero itself is remaining a military installation, but there are two sites that are interested in being new launch sites from Australia, one from the north coast, north and east, I believe, and then also from the south coast for polar orbits going straight off over on Antarctica. So it's going to be interesting to see how those develop. It's great how so many different places now are interested in getting into space in some way. So tell us a little bit about Skyrora's endgame. You're working on all these test flights and kind of incrementally working your way. What's your big rocket? Tell us about your big rocket that you're working towards. Yeah, certainly. So the ultimate goal at the moment is the Skyrora XL. It's 2.2 meters. There we go. You can see it at the side of the screen, 2.2 meters across, 24 meters tall. So we're an Edinburgh-based company. So if any viewers have been to Edinburgh and are familiar with the Scott Monuments on Princess Street, big, spiky, looks like a Gothic spaceship, actually. We're going to stand about as tall as that. This vehicle is in three stages. It's all using hydrogen peroxide and kerosene, a storable system. So hydrogen peroxide has not seen a lot of use of late because the performance is slightly down from liquid oxygen, but taken holistically for the vehicle design and the logistics, it gives us a lot of good things. So it's ambient propellants along with kerosene. So there's no cryogens to deal with and all of the problems that cryogenic liquids bring. It also runs in a very high oxidizer to fuel ratio because peroxide is H2O2 and the extra oxygen splitting off the water, the extra O2 coming off the H2O2 releases more energy in itself. So the bias towards the peroxide, which is a very dense propellant, it's about 35% denser than liquid oxygen, 1400 kilos per cubic meter instead of say 1000 kilos per cubic meter of water or 800 for kerosene. It means it biases the design of the rocket towards the dense propellant. If you see a cross section through black arrow on Wikipedia or something, it's almost all peroxide tank with these tiny little kerosene tanks. So it makes for a simple, efficient, compact vehicle that doesn't have to deal with cryogens and also is kind of give you the advantages of a hypergolic system where if you mix the propellants together that they light instantly. So peroxide and kerosene don't do that outside the chamber, but hydrogen peroxide can be catalytically decomposed. This is the same system that the original bell rocket belt flew on without any other fuel. If you force hydrogen peroxide through a silver mesh, it falls apart spontaneously into 600 degree steam and oxygen. So our engines in common actually with the black arrow engines have a catalyst pack at the top of the engine, a stack of mesh. And the peroxide, which is used for cooling because we've got a lot of it, you know, it's water plus, it's a really good coolant. The peroxide cools the engines and then passes through this catalyst pack, which means that already your oxidizer is a superheated gas coming into the chamber. And then you need only add the kerosene and it'll self light. So what we can see here now is our upper stage engine Leo being tested at spaceport Cornwall. It produces 350 kilos of thrust. And this is our third stage engine. This is the one which will be finally pushing satellites on into orbit. And because of the catalytic ignition that we can do with peroxide, it also means it's intrinsically restartable. So our third stage, having three stages gives a lot of flexibility anyway, but our third stage can easily relight and put multiple payloads into different places. So super simple, it sounds like. Well, relatively simple for rockets. Let's not completely say, you know, really simple here. And in fact, that fan is actually asking in our YouTube channel, if the engines are pressure fed or turbo pumps. So just, I guess, just how simple is it? The, the one we just saw running under test is pressure fed in the third stage. Just a typical helium pressurization. The first and second stage are pump fed. And again, building on the kind of heritage that you see with black arrow from the UK for oxide engines, the turbo pumps actually run on decomposed peroxide. So you have another gas generator with a catalyst pack of mesh in it, and force some of the peroxide through that, which makes 600 degrees seen. So you run the turbo pump as a steam turbine. And we're, pardon me. So it gives us another advantage with the turbo pumps in that your turbine only has to cope with a few hundred degrees instead of a few thousand. And there's no mixture ratio control. So for the engines, the peroxide system makes it self-starting, easily relightable and excellent for mixing because it's coming in as a stream of hot gas and simplifies the turbo pumps. So the two biggest challenges when creating a new rocket propulsion system, the injected design and the turbo pump are sidestepped by us using peroxide with catalytic decomposition. Yeah. And John Bensted in our YouTube channel is asking, is pure hydrogen peroxide difficult to handle? I'm about to go play with some 30% hydrogen peroxide tonight at my job for some science demos for kids. And that... I thought that was more for the hair. Yeah. Well, at 30%, I would still like to have a scalp at that point. So what about pure hydrogen peroxide? I would imagine you still have to have obviously a certain level of safety with it. Yes. As with any oxidizer, it just must be treated with respect, treated appropriately. I know that there is a perception of peroxide as something that's particularly difficult, but it's easier, I would say, than LOX because it should be treated like LOX, but you don't have the super cold temperatures to deal with. It's, again, keeping the system clean, considering the material compatibility of the different things that are being built into it. But the other advantage over the cryogenics is it's not going to boil off. So it can be stored in aluminium containers for a long time. One thing which we think might give us a logistical advantage is as we're trying to fly in trying to launch from Northern Europe, we expect there'll be somewhat more in the way of weather holds than Vandenberg or Canaveral. So if we get a weather hold, if we have trouble with wind or whatever, as long as it's not actually too windy for the vehicle to stay, it still will stay out there. It can just sit and wait. We don't have to detank anything because nothing is going to boil off. Our peroxide that we're dealing with is 90%. So there's still some water in there. I know that some systems are looking at using 98% as a model for a plant, but then the temperature as it decomposes is such that you need much more advanced catalyst, whereas at 90% we can just use the silver coated mesh. And we actually have two people asking in our YouTube chat room about what it's built out of. NRJ is like, is it aluminum or carbon fiber? And then John Benstead is asking, is it stainless steel? Because that's now all the rage to build rockets out of. Because that's never happened before. It is. That's the way of the future, isn't it? We are a combination of aluminum structures and carbon composite structures. Our approach because the cost per kilo is always going to be a little bit higher for a small launcher. To a certain extent, you're buying the dedicated launch, the more tailored launch, but we must still focus on being competitive. And so with Skyroar, what we're particularly trying to do is to design very much from manufacturing, manufacturability, make it cheap and quick and easy to create the vehicles and to use them. Much as SpaceX, one of the things they did understand when starting off, was just make the choice of making sure you're using the same propellants through all the stages and not ending up with multiple different combinations for different stages. So lots of little things like that across the board can make us cheaper and more cost effective. So we're a mixture of relatively conventional aluminum and aerospace composites. And launching from your three sites that you have, you mentioned that weather is going to be a little bit of an issue with that. Is there any particular advantage from any of your three launch sites that you're looking at? When we had Peter Becon to talk about Electron and launching from New Zealand, he said one of the really big advantages of that was that throughout an entire year there's a single digit number of times that an airplane may violate the range. Almost nothing in and around the area that they launched to. So is there something similar to that? Or is it just kind of like keeping things close together, not having to transport far? Yes, it's being able to do things all within the UK's legislative and export area. Glasgow has recently become a major hub for small satellite manufacture, just the sort of thing that we're looking to fly. And so not only UK, but actually Scotland within the UK can then provide the whole supply chain in one place. It's actually dealing with the aircraft is reasonably straightforward traffic management as long as you're planned in. So we can see one of our little rockets flying at the moment. This is Nano. This is our smallest, our lowest and our slowest. It's higher, faster and further from here on. But even on this scale, it's great. It's the same thing that makes the satellites so much smaller means that genuinely useful electronics, electronics is genuinely useful to the main program, can be flown on rockets this small and to do useful work with them and get some really cool pictures. So I'm looking forward to getting that sky in there a bit darker and seeing more of the curve than we have on this particular footage. Yeah. And I got to say, looking at the on-board footage, the rocket is barely rolling as it goes up on both of those test flights. So I know that for me and Dada that tells us that that was a very well built rocket. Marvelous. Thank you very much. Flying so nice with that there. Yeah, it's not like some of the on-board footage where we see just spinning around and it's going to make you nauseous just watching it even on YouTube. It's interesting. I haven't seen some of these pictures. Yeah, well, oh, surprise. Yeah, look at the power of the internet. I don't have to ask the office to show me. So yeah. So, Spiece Vogel, actually remember I RC chat has something, since you just mentioned the office, Spiece Vogel is asking, could you talk a bit more about your team? There's an R&D center in the Ukraine. And I believe, you know, how does this kind of cooperation work? Yes, certainly. So with our main focus is UK and building up for the capability around Edinburgh. We have our headquarters is on Princess Street. So for anyone that knows Edinburgh, we're looking directly out at the castle. And if you're, because the offices are on that street, we're above some of the shops on the street. So if you're, if you're walking past next to Levi's, you can see a mock-up of a satellite launch vehicle in the window. We have a main workshop on the outside edge of Edinburgh in a location that's a bit more suitable than the centre of the city for doing the practical work. And we're just in the advanced stages of setting up a test site for the ground testing engines near Edinburgh, so that we can do everything as conveniently as possible. We do have the centre in Ukraine in Dnieper. So we're looking to draw in some of the tremendous experience that's, you know, Dnieper's Rocket City. It was a huge centre for the space flight going back to the Soviet program. And they have the advantage that their launch vehicle heritage has continued, although they're a little bit stuck at the moment with the political federation. But they have that heritage connected, whereas ours was cut off. So it's, we're, we like to very much think as, think of ourselves as a Scottish but multinational company, a European company. And we're trying to work best across the continent. And you are the lead engineer. What does that entail for you? What do you have to do? So we're still not that large a team. So, you know, everyone gets involved in everything. But at the moment, I'm currently involved in aspects of the engine assembly and the vehicle assembly and planning for the, at the moment, planning for the launch of some of the small flights. And you'd like jump on the shop floor and kind of take a look at everything? Nice little like hands-on kind of stuff? Yes. Yes. We're very much all involved with all stages of it. And some fascinating place to be working at the moment. Sorry. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. We'll tell us. Like, what are some of the cool things that you get to kind of take a look at? Well, currently, it's just, we see engine hardware coming together. The real stuff is for the big bi-liquids is coming together, while at the same time, actually people physically building the complete small rockets nearby as well. And kind of talk about some of those other, you know, companies. Trey Harman on YouTube is seeing people, i.e. Americans. Okay, Trey, that's fair enough. Seem to confuse Skyra and Orbex of the UK. Are you familiar with them? And what do you see as the main differences between your two companies? Yes. Yes, certainly. So we know them. We've met them at a number of events. Their system is a different propulsion concept. They're a liquid oxygen and propane, which I understand they hope to derive from biofuel sources. And their two stages, again, conventional gas-generated turbo pump system, I believe, and all composite structure. And it's, we haven't seen so much yet from them, but I'm confident that they're building away as well. So I look forward to finding out more about their system. And one thing that I found very interesting on your website in listing, talking about the rockets that you're going to be flying, is that you actually put a section on the environmental work that goes in with your rockets and how much carbon dioxide per launch and everything like that. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes, certainly. So it's another advantage of hydrogen peroxide. It burns very cleanly. But beyond that, actually, as a new launch vehicle, as a clean sheet, a fresh system, we want to minimize our impact. We want to be as close to zero carbon as we can be. So we think about that across all aspects of what we're doing. And from the efficiency of the combustion, the handling of the propellants, not losing any propellant into the environment. And looking at sourcing kerosene from waste material streams, which is something that we hope to be able to do in the near future. Yeah. And I noticed last night I did some math real quick just to kind of compare my Jeep to one of your rocket launches. And one of your rocket launches puts out about one tenth the amount of carbon dioxide that my Jeep does in a year. So my Jeep, if I did my math right, that would put it at about 3,000 kilograms of carbon dioxide a year, something like that. So you guys are below one tenth of that per launch. So that's pretty cool. I never really thought we don't really think about that. But yeah, that's absolutely amazing that a rocket could put out so little carbon dioxide with that. So for the hydrocarbon system. Well, I mean, the space is obviously, space technology has been critical to helping our understanding of the earth and is critical to the continued monitoring of the current state of the climate. And yet, space launch itself, as Elon mentioned, is not very amenable to electrification. So we have to consider minimizing carbon. We ideally need zero carbon space launch. And obviously, I know liquid oxygen hydrogen systems do provide that anyway. But hydrogen is a very challenging stuff to deal with. So if we can do low carbon or zero carbon launch without having to resort to liquid hydrogen, then that can only be a good thing, especially as we're looking at ourselves. And many places are looking at launching more and more now. And timelines are always something that everybody is asking about for space startup companies. And Graham W in our YouTube chat room is asking, when will Skyrora do their first launch? And you've already done test launches, but I suppose with your larger vehicle, when are you looking to do that? So we expect carbon to be at the end of 2021. 2021, okay. Obviously, there's always things that can come up. We hope to do better than that on time. Yes, around that kind of time, 2021, 2022, to start up, to do our first flight. And we hope to get into commercial operation as quickly as possible, obviously. What are some of the things that we should be looking at from Skyrora from now until you start flying? So we have the two stage solids going to 30 kilometers, 100,000 feet. And Skylar Micro, we will have a significant ground test of three ton thrust rocket engine near Edinburgh in the very near future. We will have the turbo pump system is progressing, so we will have something to show about that in the near future. And we have then the Skyhigh hybrid launch to near space, which we hope to be able to be doing very soon as well, probably early next year. And our suborbital bi-liquid vehicle SK1, which you can see in the lineup, if you see on our website again, is a single stage pressure-fed peroxide kerosene suborbital vehicle capable of taking about 90 kilos to around 100 kilometers altitude. And that one should be ready by we go, Skyrora one. Skylark L, as we're now going to call it, and that will be available to fly. I think I'm optimistic we'll be in a position to fly it by the end of next summer. And we are getting a lot of interest in it actually as a suborbital vehicle, whereas initially it was planned just primarily for our own developmental step. There is a lot of interest because we can provide, we believe we can provide the same cost and convenience advantages to scientific suborbital flights that we are working towards to provide orbital flights. And again to provide that extra capability within the UK to companies and universities that would otherwise have to go further afield could be a good opportunity. And Raj Luthra in our YouTube channel is asking the question that anybody who starts up a space flight company nowadays is asked, which is, will your rockets be reusable? Everybody just throws that at everyone. So will they? Yes. Well, it's always more difficult for a small launcher to be reused because you don't have the same spare percentage, the spare percentage of mass is inevitably going to be smaller. And I was very interested to see Rocket Lab looking at catching the electron by parachute. And at the moment we're expecting we are starting off expendable. But I think everyone has to consider usability because SpaceX will make us. Yeah, they're putting a little pressure on the small sat launch industry with their... Just on everybody. Yeah, pretty wild that they're doing that. And I mean, we've just... There's multiple questions in this same vein. So I suppose I should ask it from our chat room, both of them in YouTube. Sarge Enzyme is asking, is Skyrora recruiting for any positions? And the capacitor is asking any job vacancies available? So I guess we might have quite a few viewers from the UK watching. So we do have some. So I believe they're on the website. If you just keep an eye on the website and our social media, we make quite active use of our social media strands. And vacancies will be up. So I'm sure they're on the website, probably somebody will message me to tell me that they're up there. You can find them and you can keep an eye on us on Twitter and Instagram and all the usual places. And if folks would like to know more about Skyrora, where can they go to do that? Skyrora.com is the best place for the overall information and then the social medias. All right. Well, Robin, lead engineer at Skyrora, fantastic stuff. Can't wait to see, especially with non cryogenic propellants, that's pretty exciting. So being able to handle that a little bit easier than cryogenics. So yeah, spilling hydrogen peroxide doesn't sound as bad as spilling liquid oxygen everywhere on a shop floor. Still not fun. Yes, we still don't want to do it, but it does have its advantages. Yeah. And I'm just really excited about it seeing the UK get into it because it's always great to have more countries get involved, especially internationally, because here in the United States, obviously, we focus so much on what the US is doing. But to see other countries getting involved, it's very exciting time, especially for the small sad industry. So yeah, best of luck to you guys. And looking forward to all of the updates that are coming with that as well. And not only am I just excited about the internationalness or I guess the rise of international companies for the small sad industry, I'm also excited because here tomorrow we have quite an international audience. And our citizens who help us here at the show and make these shows possible come from all over the world. And I think that's so interesting. I think with our statistics, it's something like only 50% of our viewers are from the United States. Yeah. Yeah. And Can I talk to you? Less than 50%. Oh, less than 50% as they're telling me in the booth. Yes. So we, I mean, truly an international show that we have here. So that was really great to have Robin and Skyrora on to kind of talk about that. And we wouldn't be able to do this without you. And if you got something out of this and you'd like to give a little something back, you can head on over to youtube.com slash join slash TMRO. We still do have our Patreon available as well. Patreon.com slash TMRO. We are not getting rid of our Patreon. We are not, if you're going to stay on Patreon, we're not going to like remove your rewards or anything. You're going to get the exact same stuff that people on YouTube do. But we're just going to concentrate a little bit more on YouTube because we kind of like it kind of keeping it within where we're at. And in addition to that, you may want to take a look at some of the upcoming things that we're going to be implementing for our citizens as well, where you're going to be able to listen into us as we're doing script reviews for news, even potentially here, audio channels that we have here in studio during the show. So you can literally see how it's made, which is always exciting to me, like true behind the scenes. Yeah, I was testing that today. Yeah, true behind the scenes stuff. This channel that everyone can hear about. Yeah, and actually we're testing some of this right now. So this is coming into play very, very rapidly. And we're also looking at doing some very interesting things in chat where you're going to be able to maybe influence what ends up going. We're not talking about that yet. Yeah, but we'll cross that bridge when the chat comes up with that. So lots of cool stuff on the horizon. And also, if you can't help us out via YouTube or Patreon, subscribing, hitting that notification bell somewhere up there, because we are doing a lot of Letting Off Steams now. And in fact, Jamie and Carrie Ann did one this week where they went to a bar and talk space and you bought them all drinks. So I'm expecting you all to buy me drinks when I do a Letting Off Steam regardless of where I am at. So have them delivered or something. I don't care. Just make it happen whenever I get around to doing my own Letting Off Steam. Also, you can head on over to community.tmro.tv. Post there, help us out in whatever ways you feel. Post us everywhere. Help us reach our mission goal, which is to get people excited about space. I think that about wraps it up for Orbit 12.33. So thanks for tuning in. And until the next one, keep exploring.