 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I am your host Bart van der Zee and I am joined today by William F. Ludwig the third Bill, how are you? Good part? How's it going? Good. Thank you so much for being here. I can't tell you how excited I am I feel like I'm talking to a to drum royalty here. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate you having me and Hello to all your listeners out there. Hope everybody had a great holiday. Awesome Why don't we just go ahead and Without further ado hop into the history of Ludwig and run through that and then we'll end up with what you're doing today Which is WFL three drums, which are from what I've heard amazing And I'm excited to try them out here in the next couple months And then we're gonna finish up with some listener submitted questions, which is a new kind of Subject we're doing on drum history. So I think that'll be a lot of fun. Great. Awesome. Perfect. So I'll let you take it away So how did it all begin? My grandfather was a percussionist in playing drums in the circus and Even to back up further than that when his parents moved to the United States from Germany his father was a violinist and his mother was a singer and His father wanted him to play violin and he was adamant about after seeing a Parade and the drummers he said I want to be a drummer and I'm so thankful for that because I Know I wouldn't be good at violin. Yeah See me with a violin. No, but nothing against violinist. I'm sorry, but at any rate so he he played drums for the circus and As a touring drummer and there were horse-drawn carriages at the time that's how long ago it was and During the off-season in which was the winter He ended up in Chicago getting a gig with a vaudeville act and being that the music was More up-tempo the bass drum pedal he had just wasn't cutting it and we have one of his base original bass drum pedals, which was I Don't know maybe 16 inches long wood footboard with a huge 14 or 16 inch high beater all wood very slow very clumsy and Not portable so he developed his own bass drum pedal in the garage and All of a sudden he started using that at gigs and it was small Fold it up went in your pocket and people were just freaking out go. Where did you get that? Well, I made it. Oh, I'll make me one So that's how he started and then his brother Theobald was a drummer also and they together Grew from the garage to an actual little drum shop mainly doing drum repairs and Helping people fix strainers and little things like that and making bass drum pedals. So that's how it all started and then he Got another gig down the road with an opera and Playing timpani and they were hand tuned timpani at the time which he thought boy, this is a drag I wish I could do this with my feet and he developed the foot tuned Timpani which is still, you know, one of the best action foot-tuned actions out there now and He just made things for himself out of necessity and then eventually other drummers would come to him and tell that tell him What they needed? Which is how it grew into the sound effects you were mentioning earlier Drummers there's like two or three drummers at a silent movie behind the screen Playing all the sound effects to go along with the movie that they're watching from behind So the train goes by they make a train sound the boat goes by they do a boat whistle and All these drummers were coming to my grandfather going You know, I need this I need that and it's what he started making them and pretty soon He had I don't know. I hit five or six pages of the catalog devoted to the sound effects and all you know three different levels of boat whistles three different kinds of train whistles and Gunshot machine and rooster crow and duck call and all these crazy things to go with the silent movies and That was to me that that was just interesting and Fun to see and work with some of those those items Yeah, those are I I talked about it in the first episode But it's just amazing how real they sounded and how much thought was put into each one to sound like a horse And to sound like the train and they're beautiful handcrafted instruments. Yes. Yes, and it's and as you say how did you come up with an idea of I need something to sound like a train going by and It's just unbelievable how he came up with those things and they still work today Yeah, and I use them I do a history of percussion clinic and I use them from the 1930s still That that's interesting to me. Yeah, they don't they don't make them like they used to I guess because Stuff doesn't last that long So, yeah, so after the that that period in the in the 20s Yeah, why don't you pick it up from there? What's going on at that time? well, that that's really an interesting question because To skip ahead and then I'll go back to that. I was working At Ludwig from company with my father in my early 20s or I guess mid 20s And they came out with the lindrum machine. Yeah, and I Went into my dad's office and I said, oh my god. This is awful. They've got this computer To do drumming now for studio work and all these drummers are gonna be out of work and it's gonna crush us And he said, well, no, it won't it happened before and it'll come it'll change and everything will swing back to regular acoustic drums What do you mean it happened before? Well, apparently when they came out with talking movies every drummer was out of work the next day Because the theater owners were just like, oh, no, we don't need you. We have talking movies now so my grandfather panicked and along with the Depression looming depression and talking movies my grandfather sold the business To con we at the time own Leedy drum company and they wanted to team up Their theory was if they teamed up Ludwig with the Leedy it would help boost the Leedy sales or their drum sales in general and so he went ahead and sold to them and started working for them and they were in Elkhart, Indiana and They Over the years couple of years he didn't wasn't getting along with them. They weren't doing new product development the way he thought it should be done They weren't doing a lot of things the way he thought it should be done So that's what triggered him to say I'm out of here. I'm going back to Chicago and starting my own drum company again And their response to that was well, it's nice, but we own your name And he said fine. I'll use my initials. So that's how WFL from company came about and he was very smart to put Very small underneath the logo William F. Ludwig president So everybody immediately knew oh Ludwig and they associated the Ludwig name and products with quality and Good customer service. So that's how he Rebuilt the company and in those early days To what it became as the largest most famous name on drums. Yeah, that's fascinating because I know with What I've heard from Khan is that they just didn't really care They wanted to make money off of Ludwig and Leedy Right and as Rob Cook said they just called it the the sawdust factory. They didn't refer they didn't care about it It just it wasn't anything so yeah, yeah, well, and then that type of Accounting mentality numbers only, you know trickles down to the product to the image of the company and the way customers were treated and You know the music business is different musicians are Different breed then somebody buying a car or some other item, you know, it's just Yeah, it has to be treated differently. Yeah, exactly. It's It's just something special and people there's there's other drum companies you can buy So I know I'm personally really brand loyal and I feel a connection My first real drum set was Ludwig So I feel a connection to Ludwig and I think I think a lot of people do it just has this Gives you a certain kind of feeling Yeah, well we did we did when what was family on yeah, and I'll just leave it at that that whole con percussion division was going down and They weren't doing a lot to keep it alive. So WFL drum company just started to take off and You know as I said people were people knew it was my grandfather So that got a lot of attention and a lot of drummers coming back to him and they you know, he started in a small Rented shop in Chicago and all of a sudden grew to another floor of the building and all of a sudden bought the building and Next thing, you know, we were you know just expanding like in leaps and bounds. It was unbelievable That's finally occupied the whole city block Wow Yeah, so to start Like that to start over in a basement type rental shop with money borrowed from his friends and at his wife and You know anybody he could just to get going to Become the biggest drum company in the world is pretty amazing. It is. I mean, that's just a it's kind of the underdog story So, so how did he get the name back? Why don't we pick it up there? Well in 1955 I believe The con company had just officially shut down all percussion Manufacturing a little before 1955 and then in 1955 like my father I was born and my father thought well, you know what if we could get our name back and go back to Ludwig drum company Then that would just cement our future So dad went ahead and had a meeting with con and bought the name back And then with at the time We were you know really expanding and I think we bought Musser mallet company and then a case company so We changed it from Ludwig drum company to Ludwig industries just as the No, main company with Divisions under it. Yeah, the kind of parent company. I didn't know that I didn't know yet a case company about Musser, but not the The cases. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we we bought a case company Shishler Okay, it's called that's sch Shishler They were Chicago based company and we bought them and moved them into our into another Shop we had and took their employees. So we kept the same quality and same manufacturing processes and And so then we were full service. We made our we were the only company that made our own hardware Shell sticks heads cases Everything was made on Daman Avenue. The only thing that wasn't done there was the chrome plating Wow one-stop shop. That was my grandfather's You know the the German mentality of to do something right do it yourself. Yeah And that way we can control our quality and keep an eye on everything So now we're about the mid fifties and you have got the name back. So everything is going great It they're now Ludwig drums. There's some subsidiary companies like the cases and Muster percussion instruments. So then we get into the 1960s, which obviously was a massive time of change in In music across the world Yes, and at the time, you know, we were we had quite a few of the top jazz artists around and knew that the power of endorsements Was so strong So when rock and roll started to evolve We were going after that market and then You know the next thing, you know that small band from England hit the Ed Sullivan show. What was your name? Beatles yeah, some of the beat and Yeah, and Ringo, you know saw this new finish we had and black oyster pearl and said oh I've got to have that thing that word was only Ludwig made that and so I want to play an American made product anyhow and So he bought his first black oyster kit the next thing, you know, they run at Sullivan man And then everything changes from there. Oh the next day the next day a change I mean it was I was in fourth grade Sitting on mom and dad's learning floor watching the show and I thought wow Our name keeps popping up everywhere. I mean every shot of of John or Paul Or George and he had the lovely logo behind him, you know It was just so the next day our phones were ringing off the hook the customer service phones were Everybody all the dealers saying and customers saying, you know, I want to buy a wrinkle kit and the customer service people are saying And my father's like just shut up and write the order just write their name down. Yeah, and I got all It was and then we grew to The demand was so high. We went to 24 hours a day six days a week Wow cranking a lot of drums out the door at that point, I mean You know 24 hour production and we were still like nine months behind on the black oyster pearl my god Wow What did one of those drum? What did one like cost at that point? Do you remember? No, I think I'd say around $700-$800. Yeah, that's about I mean at that point I'm both stands and two simple stands a hi-hat the bass drum pedal and the drums. Wow, that's amazing I mean the the the image of you sitting there in your family. I mean, was it just like I Guess at the moment you're watching it. You didn't really realize how Huge that is until the next day when when you're just no, it's just going crazy I had no idea and then I really had no idea until dad came home that night said Wow, we got a lot of orders for that ringo from there, you know ringo guy black oyster pearl. I Thought okay, that's cool. I stood didn't really you know, it's in fourth grade. I didn't think about it that much but but I was actually started working in the factory shortly after that and I Think it was in the fourth grade fourth grade year and dad said, you know, I want to come down on Saturdays and and open mail and you know After so I would open this huge pile of mail and stamp it received with the date and then put You know try to separate them from customer to dealer piles And when I was done with that my pay was I got to play with the switchboard Which at the time was the old-fashioned with the cords that came out and you're plugged in and lights and switches and The headset and I thought that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. That's funny. Yeah Well, that's I grew up. I literally grew up in the factory and then you know, I'd go down and play in the factory and then eventually started working there every summer in different departments and I Loved it. Obviously Ludwig had been around for 50 plus years at that point 1909 going to about 1965 But that is the I mean, would you consider that the pivotal breakthrough moment to just go worldwide? Massive everyone knows Ludwig Well, we were already worldwide and we were already quite big but that just took us to a whole nother area, I mean just it was Like a rocket taken off. I mean it was just unbelievable and You know all of a sudden all of our displays at conventions Doubled in size and yeah, you know, we had to get more staff and more sales people and Larger warehousing facilities for raw materials and It was it was just unbelievable and when we did build the new factory the new addition after Ringo I'll never forget dad had the blueprint spread out again on the living room floor and bought a toy semi truck and said to me here Play with this and take it in and out of that entrance and then out the other side to make sure you can turn that corner and make sure it fits and So that's how we built the factory so we could pull a semi completely indoors out of the weather and Unload everything check the inventory and then the semi would continue out The other door and on its way man, and it was really a slick situation because you know dealing with wood and The pearl wraps and things like that. You don't want to be taking that out of a semi in a snowstorm No, and and or rain so that it was just perfect Wow, and are you in were you in Elkhart in this point in Indiana or were you guys back in Chicago? Oh, no when my grandfather left time he left Elkhart and back to Chicago Yeah, it seems like there's some bad bad feelings towards Elkhart from some drummers who were forced to go there. Oh, yeah Oh, yeah. Well, that's another story. But yeah But yeah, my grandfather started restarted On Damon at not far from Damon Avenue And then I think he moved a couple of blocks over to Damon Avenue when he started to expand and was at that address 1728 North Damon for you know since The early or late 40s, I guess or mid 40s Wow, and that's where I grew up basically You know and as and it was funny as we added as we grew we would take over a building next to us or Dirt will build another building and then attach them all with the walkways and Covered always that would fit a Forklift up and down it but they're all different heights of different ages and so you'd walk through one Part of the building in it's kind of leaning to the right and the next building is leaning a little to the left That's awesome, but but it was our place and it's It was quite a place to grow up. Yeah, I mean you were a You're one lucky guy to be to be in that family and I mean obviously I'm sure it wasn't with all of the the sales and up and down of People buying the company in the name and losing the name and getting the name. I'm sure it's not it's not all You know Ringo on the Ed Sullivan show and and there was a there was a whole, you know whole Unbelievable roster of endorsers that supported us In jazz and rock, you know, Joe Morello Yeah, buddy rich was with us a few times here came and went. Yeah You know way the Duke Roy Haynes Max Roach and then the rock guys came into it Carmine with vanilla fudge John bottom was that plan and Ginger Baker and it was just Unbelievable. Yeah, the the I just when people think of classic Drums like I was saying before I think it's Ludwig and it's not just Ringo like you just said There's a huge roster of people like I just on my Social media stuff posted a video of Alex Van Halen. Who's another long time? Ludwig guy, so it's just yeah, it's it's just so cool. So picking it up after Ringo Which is kind of the major, you know, the the peak the top of the mountain there What happened after that was it all smooth sailing for a little while? I mean you get you get into Zeppelin right after that with Bonham who is obviously many drummers favorite, you know Favorite guy. So yeah, what was it like after that? Well, it was it was still busy, you know, and there was struggles though. I mean with with that much increase in production You've got to watch the quality You know, we had a few glitches with quality, but You know, those are just normal business problems that pop up and But but we grow continue to grow another one of our Great endorsers was Roger Polk playing with Elton John Who was doing some incredibly big shows at that time? and It was just Exciting yeah, it's a lot of fun and a lot of excitement and a lot of work I worked a couple of summers and customer service and Boy, the phones just never stopped and looking back on those times now I just chuckled because there was no computers No, you know voice messages or answering machines. So you had to just Get somebody on the phone looking for an order and then you had to go out and find the order while they were on hold And it was Quite interesting. I mean nowadays with computers and everything like that. It would have been a lot simpler, but yeah, we made it work Yeah, really now you can just get on an order a Ludwig drum set from probably 500 different websites and it you know comes from a different store or this and that that's uh, yeah Yeah, that's pretty cool. So same with same with managing your inventory control I mean it would be so much simpler with a computer than a guy walking through a department once a week counting How many 14-inch shells we had left? Yeah, you know and Better get that count right and we're gonna be in trouble next week. Yeah a lot of room for error, obviously Which is kind of a limited now. Yeah, yeah Yeah, but but I enjoyed it I as I said I then during summers another job I had was dad sent me on the road with a couple of our salesmen for like two three weeks at a time and I would ride with them what we get its own dedicated sales force, which was huge and Going to a dealer's store and I would just observe and I'd be writing the order as the salesman did the talking and I learned an awful lot during those times and That was a lot of fun though too now I got to ask did you use the Famous like the salesman well, I forget the actual name But the finish that has the kind of rows of different Ludwig finishes on it Would they take that around with them and say hey, here's our sparkle finishes and here's all that? Well, that was a little before my time before I did that By the time I got involved in it. We they had real nice Like three inch by two inch rectangles of each finish on a key chain. Oh cool And you just keep that in your briefcase and just put that out and say, you know, here's what we have now Little little easier to carry that around. I always I love that I know people the the black keys drummer plays that finish are you still right? Yeah, right? Well, that's yeah, that was an interesting time. And then when we came out with Vista light, you know, that was another big addition to the line and Manufacturing challenges Yeah, I'm sure now were you guys the first I know fives had the acrylic stuff going on and around that time Or were you the first acrylic? Drum maker or was someone before you? Well, I'd say fives was before us and I think There might have been a couple of custom shops, but I'm pretty sure we were the first to do colored plastics and then Because my father we were both of us were always taking people on a tour of the factory and My dad would go through the Vista light department and see he'd be talking to people and and looking at this pile of scraps and Go man, it'd be great if we could use it somehow and that's when he came up with the idea. Don't be engineers Let's glue a couple of these pieces together and make the two-colored shell. Oh, yeah World in a swirl so our engineering department came up with that was the other cool thing about Ludwig If we had our own engineering department, which was huge Yeah, to be able to go in and sit with a couple of guys or I bring an endorser or his drum tech in and say He keeps breaking his hi-hat pedal, you know show him where it breaks and then they work on it and come out with a fix for that But the engineers developed the plastic molding or welding I mean so instead of glue it Actually this whatever material they came up with melted both seams of the plastic So it was like welding steel and it never, you know the drums that we did have break Never failed on the scene was always, you know, either somebody dropped it on a log Where somebody dropped something on the shell and it cracked somewhere else But never on the scene which that just blew my mind Yeah, I mean it's unbelievable. There's a Ludwig engineering department and a lot of those drums have held up Like you see beautiful this delights to this day and it's usually like you said user error where they got dropped or something like that Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, so this time went on I finally got in the company full-time after college and Started doing advertising for the company the catalogs and posters and flyers and things and then two weeks into that job Which is not what I studied in college. I studied industrial management and Industrial psychology to go into running the factory. Yeah, I thought I would be doing you knew what you were gonna like That's kind of nice. You went to college with a hey, I know what I'm gonna be doing. I just need to get the right Knowledge to perform. Yeah right, and so I get out of college and Dad says, oh, I just fired the advertising manager. You're gonna do that And my jaw just hit the floor. I said but but but but I didn't study that Well, you'll learn. Yeah, so he takes me back to the advertising department with three people in it all season You know pros and you know, here's your new boss me right out of college. I'm like, hi And they said, you know, have you ever done a layup for an ad? No, oh god They're showing me things bit by bit I'm starting to trying to get a grip on it and like two weeks into that Dad walks back to my cubicle and says, oh, I just fired the artist relations manager. You're gonna do that, too At the same time. Wow. Yeah, and I think that's pretend what I said in more or less Different vocabulary, but I'm like, but I haven't even learned this job And I'll never forget my father walking out of the department waving over his shoulder Not turning around or anything. It just says you'll learn God, he trusts you. That's for sure. Well, and luckily, you know, I was a drummer I've been a drummer since age six and Played in some rock bands in high school and college and So I knew what drummers needed. I knew, you know, what was going on with with the rock and roll world So that that luckily put me in a good position to get to know all the artists right away. Say, you know After watching you play, why don't you try this stand? Why don't you try these heads and Making the proper recommendations and everybody grew to trust me and appreciate that input So we all of a sudden our artists became very loyal and dedicated and friends personal friends of mine and my father's and Again going back to the time there were no cell phones. No Texting no computers. So everybody had my home phone number So anything comes up, you know on the road call me anytime 24-7 and You know, there's a lot of times things came up where if I couldn't get a dealer local dealer to get the guy his parts or girl I would fly out Wow, get the part. Oh, yeah. Oh go. Yeah fly to the gig No luggage just fly to the gig run a car deliver the part spend the night fly home the next day In fact, if we have time there was a pretty funny story talking about this collides Michael's Rocher was playing with heart. Yeah, and they were opening for electric light orchestra on their big stadium tour indoor stadiums And they have you know, they're 60 foot round flying saucers the stage. It was very very Big production So he played the John Bonham style kit, but white Vista light So about 10 o'clock in the morning. I get a call from his drum tech They dropped the dirt. They were loading the bass drum on the stage on a forklift and it slipped off and fell I don't know how many feet 40 feet or something. Oh my god shattered and shattered Not just cracked shattered. I'm like, okay What I said, what time you go on you said we go on at seven. I said, I'll see you before seven And I call my guy in the shop Felix who was my endorser right-hand man said Felix Drop what you're doing and make a 26 inch white Vista light from Mike Rocher right now and he goes You know, but what about you know this order or there's an order at that order. I'm like just just get this order done Right now. Oh my god that day. It was the same day thing. Wow Yeah, and they were playing at the Pontiac Silver Dome outside of Detroit So next thing I call the airline booked myself a flight to Detroit Call my father and said, you know in a couple hours. Can you give me ride to the airport? Sure? so I I go out and help them pack the Vista light bass drum, which was still warm and And There it takes me to the airport. I get out there I had to run a station wagon because it's the only thing that a 26 would fit in And now I'm in rush hour traffic creeping up the freeway to the gig and I get there like at 615 You know or so and every backstage person knew I was coming and Just kept pointing me to the back and I get the right to the back door and there's two golf carts They throw the bass drum and one golf cart take it to this because it's you know Pontiac Silver Dome's 70,000 people. Yeah And so they take the bass drum and one golf cart put me in the other golf cart Take me to the dressing room and I walked in and the band just went Said thank you you saved us. Oh my god. Wow And Sorry, they gave me a hotel key. I spent the night and flew home the next day in the same clothes Unbelievable. I mean wow talking about time to pack. I didn't have time to get a toothbrush Customer service right there man. That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. God. I can't believe you know it I can't believe you turn it around that day. I mean you could just say I need a pistol light right now I mean, I guess they don't take week weeks to make but wow that is awesome No, no, but it takes our a couple hours and you know the clock was ticking so Yeah on a on a not standard. I mean how many 26 inch pistol light bass drums are being made. That's Exactly. Yeah, that's awesome So that was uh, that was a challenge, but uh, so what year was what year was that I did a lot of those That was probably 76 76 77 So getting back in the the timeline here, so we're approaching when there was another sale of the business then correct kind of in the early 80s Yes, it was uh November 5th 1981 not that I remember but uh And oddly enough that was to a company in elkhart indiana. Oh god old elkhart the summer the summer company And uh, yeah, so That that started that again and when that happened dad and I uh We had an agreement to work for them for five years And dad and I both stayed 10 years because of our law for the company and um They were starting to Rub us the wrong way with their lack, you know lack of engineering lack of due product development lack of artist support So after 10 years in which it was 1991 They parted company with me And that was that was uh That was the end of my life in the drum business which was uh of huge Lost to me and But it just wasn't the same anymore. I mean it wasn't the family field. They were all corporate and I went on my way. I went into another business. I got involved in Restaurant business for a while and then I did some after I discovered that was uh brutal. Yeah I I did some various uh office jobs office Uh management jobs, you know Things that I didn't like but I had two young daughters at the time and yeah, you gotta gotta do what you gotta do pay the bills Yeah Yeah, so then finally uh, that was uh five years ago. I I moved out to the burbs so my daughters could go to a good high school because we lived in downtown Chicago and it was just unbelievable to You know move into a place putting up pictures and I had this picture of my grandfather In the kitchen and I kept looking at the picture and he He looks so proud and he looks so happy Because he's in a factory testing the drum. So for some reason five years ago I took that picture off the wall and on the back In my father's handwriting It's a senior starting over age 63 1940 And I was coming up. I was 59 at the time and I thought God damn it. If he can do it. I can do it. Yeah So, uh, excuse me. Sure So, uh That's what pushed me over the edge to start WFL three drums Yes, which is where we're at today. Yeah, yes, and I couldn't be happier. I'll tell you because uh This is what I love doing and You know, my grandfather started over he was actually 58 to 59 when he first got back to Chicago So the picture I have is a couple years after they got into production Well, he lived to be 93 and was in the factory every day up until two weeks before he died Oh my god, so he's 90 93 years old in the drum factory. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, and you know smoking in cigars out in the shop Picking up quality mistakes, you know bitching at people they hurry up Oh, yeah, he was but he was doing what he loved. Yeah, and I thought, you know, that's what I want to do So Now I'm age 63 My drum business is starting to grow. Yeah, just introduced full drum kits Last summer. So at the MAM show in a couple of weeks, we're going to be showing full drum kits and Made me USA. I have we have a factory outside of Kansas City So I'm just ecstatic with the way that this has worked out Well, they are Beautiful drums and you can tell that they're made in the classic Drum making fashion, but they're modern Do you have all of the nice modern touches that we we've kind of that you personally have learned over the years of Being in the Ludwig family. So you're kind of getting the best of both worlds Thank you. Thank you very much. That's what I Set out to do when I first started which was with snare drums, which is the You know starting point. I thought but I wanted to get that old classic Supersonic 400 sound and And so we have a metal shell aluminum metal and three ply wood which is thin wall shell with this the support rings inside the way senior made them and both those snare drums just sound phenomenal and getting really reviews from people who are using them live and in the studio And then the next natural progression was the kits which are the same thin wall wood shell That the snare drums are and they just sound phenomenal everybody that plays the kits Jumps up after five seconds and goes. Oh my god the classic sound. Yeah, the word has spread I've heard people talking about him and saying that they're unbelievable and and it's just yeah So people I think people know and in jumping back here. It's in what I'm seeing In a weird turn of events. I don't know much about it, but con ended up buying selmer. Is that right? Yes Like what you con just can't Move on And now the whole thing is owned by steinway piano company Wow. Yeah about four or five years ago steinway came over and bought the con company which came along with selmer lugwig everybody else and uh three years ago a real estate developer person That's worth 11 billion dollars with a b. Oh my god bought steinway Yeah, I saw that name too and I was wondering how that person got involved Well, if you wanted steinway for some reason, I don't know if he needed pianos for his mansions or what Uh, but he's not paying a whole heck of a lot of attention to the rest of the Instrument divisions. He just focused on steinway So he got it and that's that's where it stands today and and I'm so happy to be doing what I'm doing and not in that corporate venue of You know, everything's numbers everything's computer and everything's got to be this way So I'm just really happy and with our own shop now, which we've only had for a year It's so great. I go down there on occasion and My business partner lives down there and operates that end of it. But I get to go in the factory again And play and say, hey, what if we tried this? Hey, let's try that and if yeah, you're back to the old days Yeah, and I'm loving it Man for me, it's a big thing that people are supporting The guy a a true Ludwig and it's just so funny that and I love how you call it wfl three drums In to me it obviously resembles the the separation of your grandfather Going out on his own and um, I mean it just it's starting over. There's no better way to put it That's just perfect. Thank you Yeah, thank you and my my tagline for the company is the sound of generations Love it Which which I think I think is very fitting and I didn't do this on purpose, but last spring Um, I saw I have a new endorser now kofi baker And uh, he is a fine fine percussionist And he got uh, I don't know. I think it was about a year ago or so. He got jack bruce's son and eric clapton's nephew together and said, why don't we do a tour for the 50th anniversary of cranes last performance cool So they did a tour and on wfl three drums And uh, it doesn't get more generational than that. No, the Ludwig the Ludwig the third working with kofi baker Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, it was a great. It was a great tour So I want to tell people before we move on I want I want to get to the questions that people have submitted But um people can find you at wfl Three drums.com. That's wfl II drums.com roman numeral correct three. Yeah, so Um, and you can see pictures you can see everything that bill has available And you can get in touch with them and see the endorsers and all that cool stuff. So, um Really cool. Congratulations on on starting over. Yeah So, thank you. Thank you very much. Yeah starting over at 63 Absolutely. It's never too late. So as I said before I had some questions submitted by a few folks, um from instagram Where if if people I'm assuming most people are finding me through instagram because that's where I post a lot of Cool drum videos But um, if you're not you can go there and see a lot of cool videos And I open it up for people to submit questions there So I will start out with a gentleman who has become a friend of mine named Nate testa who wanted to ask um What did you learn while sitting behind the scenes watching what happened in your family with the company switching around What have you taken from that and used in your current situation kind of like what what is your knowledge? What are your watch outs that you're you're being careful of? Well, you know as I mentioned earlier my I was brought up by my grandfather and father to You have a quality product and top customer service And you can't go wrong. So I've walked away with that uh very strong feeling and and know it myself from Life if I go buy something I want I expect customer service, you know and quality and that's one thing that's um It drives me mad when I call somebody If the phone company or cable company and you push one for this guy push two for this push three for that Why can't I just talk to somebody? Yeah, you know, yeah And you call wfl three drums and I answer the phone So it sounds like it's just all about customer service. I think that's just your entire family has been customer service top to bottom so that's um That again is from, uh, Nate test it who I want to say actually has a He's on social media as the official snare geek. Um, so I think he'll probably feature some wfl three snares on there And he he does really cool reviews and all this kind of stuff. Um, so well, Nate Feel free to call me or send me an email anything I'll I'll tell Nate that after we get off the phone here today. So, um, cool The next question I have is actually and it's interesting because it's from a another friend of mine I knew he's actually on the show his name is Vincent leaf and he runs vitalizer drums I don't know if you've heard of him. You'll get a kick out of this his business his job updating and repairing and Modernizing for lack of a better term, um speed king pedals Oh, Vincent's question was uh, we kind of talked about it But if you can briefly give us a little picture of this, he said what was the factory like in the 60s and 70s Oh, let's see. How do I see this? It was extremely busy loud A lot of hustle and bustle a lot of You know in those days it was people moving materials by hand on on hand trucks or Racks with you know rolling racks Nowadays you have a lot of conveyor belts or automated systems and stuff. So we were all you know hands on And just a lot of action. I mean you had to I as I said to other than I take people on tours We always had to you know stand in a certain place and not walk in a certain place. You'd get run over And uh, it was just a lot of action and a lot of noise. We had uh punch presses knocking out the metal parts for the For the speed king for the cymbal stands for the hi-hats Then we had the wood department saws going like mad cutting the veneers for the shells and uh So I would I would just say a lot of hustle and bustle. That's awesome. I'm sure the days flew by Oh, yeah Well, and that was one of the things that I really missed when we got rid when we sold the company when I was Invited to leave Was growing in the factory. I mean, you know no more the sounds and the smells And I've been the the Damon Avenue factory was made in the condominiums After Selma moved them Moved the factory to North Carolina And I went in there one time because a drum teacher. I know lives there. It's funny. Oh god was depressing It was dead quiet, you know, and I thought oh, I gotta get out of here. This is right. This is wrong Yeah, yeah, cool. Okay, great answer. Um, I got two more. We can quickly go through these This one is from a gentleman named Robert. Um What was it like growing up in the Ludwig household? Not only just like sitting in front of the tv watching Ed Sullivan with the Beatles and it just blowing up But were there drummers coming in and out were there Was it really, you know, were people playing the drums all the time or was it a pretty pretty regular house? You're just doing homework Well, it was it was a regular house to me But looking back on it It was wild. I mean we had drummers coming through constantly Uh, we had drums and timpani set up in the basement A couple of times bands came in there two of us And the whole band came into the house. Wow Joe Morello would always use good friends with mom and dad and he'd come and spend the night at the house when he had a day off in Chicago and I'd always pester him to you know, come on uncle Joe sleeping my lower bunk of my bunk bed And he'd play drums and I'd watch him and Buddy rich was there a couple of times and It was crazy. I mean a lot of drummers coming through non-stop Drummers would come into the factory for a tour and then after that we'd say well, you know Why don't you come out to the house for dinner? and uh You know and that was that was the routine and it was it was a riot I was speaking speaking of Joe Morello though. One of my quick stories that just popped in my head. I was in third grade Mom and dad were at the you know I went to the Dave Brubek concert for about a thousand people in the audience and we're standing on the side of the stage I got my little shirt and tie on like I always did and uh, all of a sudden Joe's snare drum just sounded awful and dad, you know, we we noticed that this snare string broke So dad pushes me out on stage. He says go get the drum So I start to walk out nonchalantly to go get Joe's snare drum. He's still playing on the tomtoms And I made the mistake of looking out at the audience and I just froze And and I look back and Joe Joe's looking at me over his glasses smiling and going come here come here So I do Get my courage up get out there get the snare drum Take it back to the side dad and I fixed the string real quick Dad pushes me back out, you know to deliver it and this time I didn't look anywhere except right at Joe Put the drum back on the stand and then he continued to play but Wow, and I remember it like it was last week that feeling when I looked at the audience and thought oh my god There's so many people That's awesome. What I like is about all this is you're not you didn't take it for granted I feel like you've enjoyed every moment of being in a drum family. Oh, yeah, absolutely My final question would be um, so I did an interview with uh, Jim Moritz who is the of the chicago drum company Um Who grew up working at slingerland Now I know there is some growing up slingerland and Ludwig were like competitors. Obviously, they were competitors They were you guys were button heads arch enemies arch enemies So, yes, he said there was some stories about People from Ludwig would be going and looking through the dumpsters to see what slingerland was working on and he said I'm sure slingerland was doing that to the Ludwig boys Do you have any any kind of tales of? of Deceit or deception with the slingerland crew well, uh Jim's story is partially correct saying that someone from Ludwig went through their dumpster. It wasn't someone from Ludwig It was my father Oh boy in the way. Yeah, and this this happened One day in high school on a Saturday. I'm in my room and dad comes in and goes Come on take a ride with me So, okay, I get my shoes on and I start to follow him out to the garage And on the way out, I said Where are we going? He goes we're going up to slingerland. I'm going through the dumpster. You're gonna watch for the police And I said wait a minute I'm not having anything to do with this and he goes fine. I'll go by myself And off he goes. He goes back like three hours later With a trunk load of crap. He pulled out of their dumpster of cut-up shells and Strainers they're working on and he says look at this. Look at the door. I can't believe they're working on a on a new Serb, but you know like Wow, and so that that was my dad doing it and he also Would go to slingerland during around noontime To count how many cars were in the parking lot to estimate their employees How many employees they hit man So it consumed it's consuming to the fight between between slingerland. Oh, oh, oh, yeah Yeah, and I you know, uh, I never met bud slingerland, but had I I probably would have kicked him in the balls because It's just the way I was brought up You're you're raised to hate the slingerland family Yes, well, obviously slingerland, uh is no more their their trademark is owned by Gibson, I believe but, um You know, so I think Ludwig won in the end. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely Well, bill. I think um, I think that wraps it up I think that's a great ending hearing about the the feud between slingerland and knowing that the the disdain was even more than I I anticipated so Oh, yeah That's great. Well, thank you bill. Have a great day. All right. Have a good weekend. Bye. Bye If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about the future Until next time keep on learning This is a Gwyn sound podcast