 basically your analogy of a manicured garden versus a jungle it's very similar to this thought of basically structure versus chaos right kind of and you know when a lot of westerners come to India you know I think Marshall maybe different would like to get your perspective as well you know one of the things that always strikes them is that the whole I'm mistaken for a drive on the yeah that's right highway on the highway things always seem a bit chaotic or the highway not just highway but a lot of people said if you can drive in India you can drive anywhere you can drive anywhere right I don't drive here by the way so I think that the leadership question for it is you know basically is it important for leaders to manage in a state of chaos or do they need to bring that chaos down to a more structured way right and again I'm thinking kind of for the corporate world you know and how do leaders need to think about that I mean should they should they let the chaos kind of evolve unto itself they need to bring more structure to it maybe such group I get your perspective and then yours see chaos is not a choice the choice that you have made is to reap out of the existing chaos if you choose to make something chaotic that'll be stupid it'll go somewhere else like for example the forest for a gardener for a gardener's mind a jungle will look chaotic but no there is a very deep order there that is why a forest will live for millions of years and the garden will not last for a month without maintenance so it is just that what people are thinking as chaos is because they have an external view of things they don't have an internal integrated view of that if you understand the ecological system ecosystem today as we have slowly human beings are beginning to understand we understand that is the greatest order because that is the only thing which is lived for millions of years so when we say chaos something looks chaotic not necessarily because it's chaotic simply because you have a linear mind and something doesn't fit into your straight line you think it's out of order no a snake will go like this this does not mean its mobility is not good tell me without using your limbs just travel from here to here let me see without limbs he's going but he's found a way that's how he will go maybe he will not race with mr. bolt but that's how he goes and is very effective and he finds his own way of life and he chooses his terrain accordingly and he manages so this is about different types of lives different types of people different types of terrains different types of activities to reap the best out of it you have to harness that rather than beating everybody into one type of system because in that you may produce some level of efficiency but you will destroy people destroy situations essentially essentially you will destroy the ecology of the world I'm not talking about you know ecology as it is just essentially you will destroy the existing ecology and try to create something new see now in this land to build anything we've never bought a dozer and level any land whichever way it is I design accordingly and build on that I go to America and I see with great distress they they want to do one development they want to build 50 houses they just level out 50 acres completely this is the worst thing you can do how much life you're disturbing you have no sense about it you think order means it must be like this no this is a different kind of order by itself and if you do not allow that within the human mind within the human consciousness and in the actions that we perform then we become straight lines maybe somebody else appreciates us but we are miserable doing what we're doing simply because we straight jacket it all the time about how we should be and how we should do instead of harnessing everything to its best the way it is you want to turn everything the way you think it should be this is because essentially because you think too much of yourself somewhere you think you're better than the natural forces that are working which have shaped everything the way it has shaped so chaos is not a choice there is always a certain order which is not logically correct the order of the jungle is not logically correct but it's the best order because it's lasted longer than anything else everybody's talking about building sustainable business if you want a sustainable business you must take to the order of the jungle this does not mean ever when you say jungle you know today in India we're using jungle Raj because people believe jungle means disorder I am using the word jungle as a very superior order it's a very highly sophisticated order where you don't see any straight lines but still everything is in place everything is in such a way that it can function like this for a million years and still last that is definitely a superior order isn't it actually your thoughts on I like that I thought that was good