 Welcome to liquid margins. This is connecting the docs creative uses of tags and annotations. Today's lovely guests are Janet Mitchell Lambert. She's lead distance educator and English professor at Cerritos College and David wick associate professor international education management, Middlebury Institute of International studies at Monterey. Lucky guy gets to be a Monterey. And our moderator today is Christie de Corolla's. She's customer success manager at hypothesis. And she's also a lecturer at Rutgers University. I'm franny French. It probably says hypothesis or something like that under my name long story but my name is not hypothesis. It's franny French. Nice to see everybody. And with that I'm going to stop sharing and turn it over to Christie. Thanks Christie. Thanks for any. Hi everyone and thanks for joining today. And thank you to Janet and David for joining us I'm really excited to talk about how you're using multimedia and tags in your annotations. So, to just get started from the basics, can both of you share how you, maybe just the basics about your courses like what types of courses do you teach, are they, you know, face to face or online how big are they just some basic things like that and how, how you use social annotation in your teaching. David, can we start with you on this one. I'm happy to start and welcome everyone excited to talk to you about teaching and learning which is my favorite hobby. So it's nice to spend some time with others who like thinking about that. So as I mentioned in the chat I teach in Middlebury's graduate program in Monterey, California. My classes are in our and our program is a professional graduate program. So, the students in my classes are folks with varied amounts of professional and often global experience who come to our school to prepare for careers that are international broadly defined. My classes I teach range from classes on designing educational programs, testing education, student development theory and student learning. And I also teach in our French and francophone studies program and that's a content based language learning program so I teach things like intercultural competence and emotional intelligence in the workplace in French and things like that. So my classes range my classes range inside from 10 to 30. So since they're graduate level there tends to be a lot of student work and we rarely go beyond beyond those numbers because of the complexity of what they create. So that's a quick intro to the context in which I'm teaching and maybe we'll get Janet and then shift into some of those questions about how we use social annotation. Thank you so much David and it's wonderful to be here with you and with everyone. I just wanted to share that I teach English so I teach English composition so it's freshman composition and I teach literature courses at Cerritos College. I tend to have about 30 students per class and I will share with you that a passion of mine is multimodal composition. So I have students actually integrate multimodal sources and every single composition that they submit to me except with the exception of timed rights. So I am all very excited about the use of multiple modalities within hypothesis so I'll share a little bit more later but that's basically what I do in addition to helping support faculty with the use of the various tools and teaching online. And I also teach for at one as well so I help faculty in that capacity. Oh thank you. So very interesting. We have Janet on the end of getting students just as they're entering their higher education careers and David is kind of seeing the other end with graduate students. So, David, how did you first learn about social annotation and why did you want to start using it in your classes. Great question and it also links to a part I didn't answer which is about where and how my students engage that we have some students here on campus in Monterey. We also just this year for my program international education management launched an online version of our program that students can engage with synchronously or asynchronously. That social annotation really came into our thinking through outreach from the digital learning and inquiry team at Middlebury who are constantly helping us think about ways we can integrate technology to support student learning. So the thing we saw and we first tried it as a faculty when we're co teaching a course for US Department of Commerce professionals around the world. Our students were in all time zones all around the world. We were engaging them in a course on international education and the ways that they could engage with and partner with colleges and universities around the world to support the flow of students, which is a major part of the US economy and our US exports. So we were teaching this group of folks who didn't know each other or work with each other and wanted a way to help them see how they were all thinking in similar and different ways. So by giving them texts that they could collaboratively annotate, they got to know each other a little bit. And they got to see the different ways that they thought about or found connections in their work and in their workplaces and their and the communities where they were. So that was the first exposure. Since then, we've really integrated it throughout our program. But that was that first piece of, you know, hearing about it from folks with these things. This is something interesting and then seeing a community who was never going to get to meet in real time and recognizing that social annotation was something different from a discussion board or a flip grid conversation or something that could also allow them to get a sense of one another's perspectives and professional realities to shape the learning in the class. Wow, that's certainly a unique way to get started but it sounds really interesting. Janet, how about you. How did you get into social annotation. I will share, like David I did not mention that I teach both in person and online and prior to COVID and everybody having to be online. I still was teaching online at that point in time. I love to do collaborative text mapping, which would take a tremendous amount of time because I find a great value in annotating together, but it has limitations. The first is it takes a lot of time for me to print everything out. I would tape everything together I would have groups of students collaborating on various text maps, which was fantastic but what ended up happening was, they would do it in class. And then that would be all because they wouldn't have access to it after the fact. And so I really like the idea and find it really important to teach close reading as an English professor that's one of the big tasks that we have students do. It also encourages them to actually do the reading. You could have quizzes and other assignments attached to the reading but it doesn't necessarily mean that they are going throughout the reading not you know they may just look at the beginning and look at the end and then do some guessing throughout for an assignment I'm not saying that those assignments are important but they are separated and I think that that anytime you separate the discussion about the reading from the text, you're losing something there's a gap there. So even though we do that all the time. The idea of social annotation was very exciting to me so one of my co distance education coordinators Lynn Sirwin, who works with me closely she mentioned hypothesis and I have to tell you I get bombarded with ads for all sorts of tools, all the time. And I am a hard sell like I really love my outside tools besides canvas, but it really takes a lot for me to decide that I'm going to use a tool regularly with my students so if I'm not using the tool, at least once per unit. I'm going to adopt a tool and set up extra barriers for students to learn how to use a tool. So it was when she brought this to me it my mind was blown because not only was it solving the problems that I ran into for my in person classes with the kind of unwieldy massive text maps that started out great but you really couldn't go back and revisit them. You can tag them with you bring them back and then have students take a look at them several days later. But so that that was super exciting to me and then I use this in both my in person classes and my online classes and sometimes with my in person classes will do hypothesis right in class. I suspect that they haven't done the reading for the day. I give them a half an hour or so to okay this is quiet time to read the text but instead of just reading the text they're doing it on hypothesis so I this is one of my favorite tools. I am not saying that because I'm paid from hypothesis I love hypothesis just because it meets this need for students to interact and it teaches them how to be scholars so that may be a longer answer that then you wanted but that's that's how I got started. So that was great friend in the chat saying we are not paying Janet. No and I definitely relate to that. Before I came to hypothesis I was an instructional designer at Rutgers and like the amount of tools you hear about. It really takes a lot for me to be willing to introduce tools to faculty and I just think the value out of hypothesis is really. So Janet you talked a little bit about how you're you might use social annotation in your classes can you talk a little about how you specifically incorporate the use of tags and multimedia in the annotations 100%. So I have an assignment set up sort of like a template for me that I use and I require students to do different types of tags so they have to do a comment and so they do a comment tag. They have to do a question tag. They have to do a clarification tag and in that particular tag what they do is they find an outside resource whether that's a visual or a website or a video that they incorporate into their commentary so for example one example that we read is the help and I like the help because it talks about writing as a social justice tool, but it also incorporates history so for example just recently. Medgar Evers was brought up and so students don't necessarily know who Medgar Evers is and it's a really important little insertion into the novel so I am able to add annotations about that or ask them to find specific annotations about what they know about Medgar Evers for example, or Jim Crow laws or anything of history that is inserted within the text so I have them do that every single time they have to bring something from the outside whether it's a video or a visual and they have to incorporate it within their commentary. Great. So I have one follow up question for Janet and then I'll go to David to see how he is using social annotation in his courses. I'm just wondering you mentioned with the Medgar Evers story. Do you usually go through and ask the students specific questions about things you think they're not going to know or do you kind of let them choose what they want to clarify and where they're going to bring in some outside resources. I do both it just depends on the point and the purpose and also the length of the reading so some readings are longer, and if they're longer and I don't break up the class into groups. I might bring those resources in so I make sure that they don't miss. It's a little bit of a shorter reading than I have the students choose and I also try to scaffold so what I might do at the beginning is I might allow, you know, illustrate it to students. And then as we go throughout the semester I pull back because they just run away with it and they don't need me quite as much which is really ultimately the goal. Right, that makes a lot of sense. And so, David, I'd love to hear about. Not only we have to hear just like how are you using social annotation your courses and can you also talk about specifically like tags and multimedia and how you ask students to bring those things in. And I'm happy to do so and let me know if I go too far because it's kind of a big question that connects a lot, but I use social annotation in a variety of ways in my classes. One way that I think many folks may use it as I use it up front to have students practice social annotation. Like Janet, I feel that it's really important that we use only tools that really enhance learning so we as a program have identified a set of technologies that we integrate into our canvas courses. And then we consider each semester whether there are additional tools we want to integrate that that add value so we don't basically we don't want students learning a technology. Each week we want them focusing on the learning objectives for the class that we select tools only when they allow us to enhance learning. So social annotation now comes in for many of our classes to annotate the syllabus as a first instance to check for understanding and flow, and that's where we begin practicing work with tags. At the basic level we use comment and questions hang so like Janet, we encourage students to engage with the text at least to raise questions that extend beyond it, and to comment on connections with the comments we provide some guidance. And then when we move from kind of that initial, make sure you understand what this class is and how it works with the syllabus, and we start getting into text. It's quite a variety of texts and I'll give some examples from a specific class in a bit. But the main thing that we try to do is we start, I always start by annotating the first main source to show an example of what kinds of things might be questions, and what kinds of things might be comments and then with that as students begin to annotate. There's a really active role in that first annotation to show how we might comment both continue to come. And the example I wanted to share is in a class that I teach on social issues justice and change a really important element in that classes that we're trying to de center all voices of authority including my own as the professor. And so the modeling that I'm trying to do includes things like modeling a comment on who the authors are and their positionality, and the claims that they may make and how we might question them. And what other things we might look for and then some of the comments maybe things like what might this look like in another cultural context or, or authors or students who come from different backgrounds or realities or whose identities, align with or don't align with those that are specifically named in the piece. So we try to use that as a model, and then in subsequent class modules of that class, each source has an annotation leader, and that person is expected to go into the conversation first, and they have a specific tag a l that they add to their comments and question to kind of guide the other students in their deep reading of the text and their engagement with it. And then the annotation leaders can use the comments and question tags to sort and see kind of the direction in which the conversation is going. And then they can annotate a deeper engagement with the text as part of our synchronous and asynchronous collaborative engagement, each module. So the tags are both useful for, for me they're a training tool with the class but then there's something that individual students can can use to guide us deeper into the text through their own readings and connections that they make. Thanks so much that sounds like a really interesting way of using tags, and I agree that I love hypothesis as a way to like co construct knowledge with students, and not being, you know, the only person that's delivering content. So this is going to be a question in the chat specifically about that annotation leader tag. Marcia asks, could I ask you to tell us how many people are in the class where you distribute the al responsibilities. So our student numbers are variable but most commonly for that class social issues justice and change. I'll have around 25 students in the class. And so each module will have multiple sources that we're annotating and each source will have one annotation So that's kind of the approach that I take with that one. And in that case, students don't get a choice of which, which thing they will lead in another class that I teach on student development theory. I actually guide students to select the sources early on that they can pick something that's related to the focus area that they're interested in or the student communities that they most want to support in their work. So that's one of the approaches to that but it is, it is a good question and I find that it, it works well with both large and small groups to do that. So that that student development class tends to be 10 to 10 to 15 students because it's an elective. So she's justice and change classes that were required class for all our students. We tend to have somewhat larger groups in that one. So that makes a lot of sense as a way to to be up to those a our responsibilities. It looks like someone in the chat asked about what a tag actually is in hypothesis so I just want to address that really quickly. It's kind of like a label for annotations, or like a hashtag where students can type their annotation and then at the bottom they can add different tags or labels saying this is a question or this is a comment. And you can search annotations by a lot of different things but tags are one of the ways that you can search annotation so it makes it kind of easy to filter through the annotations by searching via the tags. So I do want to come back to Janet's use of tagging and just asked you follow up do you just trying to think of the good way to word this. Is there any way that you direct the students to kind of use the tags after they're finished with an assignment like do they come back to them as they're preparing writing or studying or things like that. So where are you using the tags on beyond that initial reading. Excellent question so as part of the template that I created for myself which I changed based on need but there's always an expectation just like in a discussion forum that students go back and they respond to other students so they have to do that a certain number of times. When it comes to their writing assignments I encourage them to go back to their close reading their collaborative text mapping and take that and see it as here is analysis. So I point out specific analysis because students don't know what analysis really is at the level that I'm teaching them and then I also teach them about synthesis. So what the assignment might be in addition to the hypothesis tool which is integrated in and they have to go back and respond is okay so now share go go to that let's let's take a deeper dive, and in a discussion forum or in a padlet of some sort of different questions, I'll ask them find a good example of analysis here that you could potentially use in this writing project prompt right so this is the prompt. What can you use from the hypothesis to do that. I would also ask them give me an example of synthesis because that's a tough one for them as well. And that is where the connection tag comes in so I'm wanting them to connect the reading or something in the reading with another text that we've read or with something that's going on in society today. So I really appreciate having hypothesis hypothesis be a place where we can start, and then also point back to it so that's really important for closing the loop and that and you're optimizing the use of that tool. It's so clear and it sounds like it did kind of solve the problem of like those paper text maps that you were talking about in the beginning where the students couldn't refer back to those things and now they're really coming back to their commentary on the text and it would sound like a really deep way. David, I am wondering the same thing in your classes are the tags that something or the text something that students return to after they've done one type of reading, or do you kind of just leave it to them to how they might use them in the future. One thing they return to so I'll give an example both of how that works with the annotation leader projects which aren't every class or every project and also in general. And many of my classes are project based so students will build something over the course of the class. So early in the class I'll have students do annotations of past projects and those past projects maybe website students have built or projects or reports or training manuals or things like that. So give an example early on the students don't really know they kind of see the end point then, but they don't really know what it's going to feel like to make that. So later in the modules I'll guide them back to that earlier annotation and ask them to look at their evolving project and see what other insight they can glean from that. So it's a nice way to reflect back on something they've seen that they didn't quite know what it meant to them yet, and they can get get deeper insight for the annotation leaders, the ways that they return to the annotation is their guiding students to go into the reading and then before facilitating the engagement for the group, they review all of the tags and and they made and all of the annotations, they may do things like make word clouds of what was in the annotation by pulling them all out to help us get a picture of the kinds of ways we're all engaging or do other other things to take our conversation beyond. So in every module in my canvas pages I tend to have a dig deeper or reflection question type final step in the in the module, and I'll encourage them to check back and this is good, especially for those students who are the early learners who may not see everything that others have done, or I'll say now look back and see what ideas you can harvest or pull from the comments and questions and also as I think Robert was sharing and Janet share in the chat and then Janet here. I encourage students to add in videos visuals other texts other sources, all harvest those out of hypothesis and put them in that final dig deeper page in each canvas module, so that I can kind of say and these are some of the things that you all shared to extend our questions and then we can harvest them there and and so that is handy because sometimes going back through all the annotations can be a bit intense. Well, often see in a text especially in those larger classes, a lot of annotations and that can become too much to encourage students to go back to, you know, a 30 page research article, and the 60 annotations in that article. I do a little of that work or have the annotation leaders do that work and then share with me the key ideas that I should add into a canvas page or I give them edit access and have them actually edit the canvas page and add in the things that they've created. I love that idea David about having the annotation like I'm at my my wheels are spinning because I'm like, ooh, an annotation leader I would like to have students take advantage of becoming those annotation leaders and I imagine using either a collaborative Google Doc or a padlet where I have the titles of the different texts that I teach throughout the semester, and that the annotation leader comes in and pulls out sort of those key annotations, and then students can go back and as part of their final reflection of the course, they go back and take a look in and see that and it could be and you know in terms of annotation leaders do you is it one student per text map or do you have groups that take turns or how do you how do you manage that. Part of that management is the size of the class and the number of texts because I don't necessarily change the, all the texts or the number of them each term, but what I like to do is have two or three annotation leaders for text early in a term. So that they can partner and have some support for that and also those will often be more foundational and possibly more complex text. And then later in the term to move to a single annotation leader per per text where the things are getting a little bit more specific and a little more focus. And that can, and also where we we've gotten into a bit of a rhythm or a flow with how we're critically examining the text. Thank you for that and I, you know I imagine it's it's interesting in my in my literature classes. We actually use hypothesis I give them two or three hypothesis assignments every single week. And so I am, I can imagine having enough texts to give every student an opportunity to be an annotation leader during the semester and that particular scenario. Whereas I may end up trying to figure out who good leaders might be in my composition classes and maybe have a bit fewer. So it's interesting to see to think about how I could use that and also one of the things that I learned from another colleague Francie who use who uses this, where she makes sure in her classes for example she has one on plays, she can go in and add her resources directly in to hypothesis for students to take a look at and she directs them to take a look there. I can imagine that students could, you know be responsible for looking at those resources as well and making sure to comment on those as well. So thank you for that. Wow, I'm just loving all of these ideas and like I have to completely overhaul my spring course now with all this. You need to incorporate annotation leaders and these, these, you know, collaborative resources being put together. I'm wondering a David you briefly mentioned multimedia. Do you, it sounds like Janet requires a students with specific annotations to add some kind of outside resource whether it be a link or an image or a video. Do you require any multimedia in the annotations or are you just kind of presenting it to students as an option. My answer is I don't yet require it but I like this idea of making it more formal, but I do model it right so as I mentioned in my classes in the first annotations usually in the first module. I would like to incorporate that annotation leader role or annotate as a model, and I will bring in various sources, a website or even sometimes attach in another article or put a meme in as a response, just to show that the idea is to engage in various ways to respond. And they've been all the ways we might as humans vote that may be emotional it may be a really thoughtful research based connection and it may be just a reaction to something we've experienced in our lives and so I try to show all of that. I have been hesitant to have too many different kinds of requirements, but I will nudge so this may link to like how do I grade or score annotations. I do review the annotations I build them in as assignments within canvas, and all of them I currently do as complete incomplete grading, but I will comment and I'll sometimes say to students. I encourage you to in the next one, maybe bring in other sources or when you mentioned that it reminded you of something include the link so we all can access that thing because we don't all have the reference top of mind for us. So that's how I try to bring that back in but I haven't required it currently. That makes a lot of sense I can definitely I am also a little bit hesitant sometimes and putting too many requirements into annotations. But that makes a lot of sense. Jenna, do you mind speaking to as David kind of like split into grading a little bit. How do you handle the grading of your annotation assignments. I am checking to make sure that they have the, I was sharing with you the four different tags that I require them to have, as well as the responses to so I'm looking to see that they have that. They, you know, they just get credit for having done it whether they've done it well that's less that's less of an issue, more of an issue is the modeling. So with David saying he noticed about that that idea of closing the loop is really important or or unpacking more. So students will stop short. And that's really where that the facilitation of the instructor is really important is that they start out really well when they're missing something and so asking them questions, encouraging them to add more and then seeing the examples of the stronger students is actually really helpful so that's another benefit of hypothesis is that you know I always before hypothesis. I actually required my students to in my physical class to turn in their annotations and I would just while they were doing something else a free writing of activity of some sort. I would go through and I would check their annotations and I would find a couple that were really strong and after they were done, I would showcase that. Well I don't have to do that anymore because we're doing hypothesis, both for my in person and online analysis and so I can point to take a look at Adam's response here it's really strong and this is what we're going for when we're trying to do a synthesis of a couple of different resources so I like point to the skills that I'm trying to help them develop the critical thinking skills, the analytical skills that are expected in rhetoric and literature, and so I point to that and then I then like I said I always have students who are really strong and very excited so I point to them and I will mention that in an announcement, or in class and students, you know they're very. They like hearing their name, you know and it, it points students in the right direction. So it sounds like both you and David are doing a lot of modeling for students in the in the annotations and you know amongst the different students themselves get to model for each other. I am wondering, because I am going to confess that I, in my own courses, didn't really know too much about using multimedia and tags before I came to hypothesis. So at any time, Janet that you didn't know about those features and we're just using the annotation tool without bringing a multimedia and tags or have you always use them. Well, because I'm a multimodal composition instructor, I did that was to me, part of the most exciting part of it because when you're collaboratively text mapping on paper you are able to use color now I wish that that I could also have added added although that's also a 508 compliance issue. You're not supposed to just rely on color, however, the idea of I use the color that was my way of kind of, you know, pointing students to different sorts of tags. But to me hypothesis the idea of including visuals and including resources, such as videos or other websites. That's one of the things that got me super excited about hypothesis so I did know about using those and I will share with you that one other idea I have, going back to this idea, David's great idea about the annotation leader is that I would love it to have the annotation leader to go through and find all of those resources and put them in a discussion form or put them in the adlet in one place and I would ask students to say so which of these visuals or videos would best fit this particular essay prompts because what happens is that students, you know when I assign the multimodality, what they will often do if they're sort of confused or they are sort of resisting is that they'll use a visual that doesn't add to the text so I'm always asking them in your choice of visual that you're using or in your choice of video. Choose something that if we didn't have it, it would take away from the text. So they might start out with a picture of the author which is nice but it you know if it's not there it's not that big of a deal. So they have a visual of like a, you know and I give them a handout about incorporating visuals and the types of visuals, and I will drop that in the chat and just a moment to give them ideas of the types of visuals that can support adding depth to their thinking. One of the reasons why we like social media such as tiktok and Instagram is that multimodality that it includes and there's an emotional part to it, as well as a, oh, you know you're able to connect to it. Personally, so that that effective domain so that's a long answer I apologize Christie, but no I did know that hypothesis have that so I, I love that aspect one of my favorite parts. Oh, no that is it was not too long it was really fascinating and I think a good reminder because we often talk about making sure students know how to create an additive annotation and not just something that's just like oh I agree with you. And that to bring it to things like images and videos as well as a layer that I don't know if everybody might think of well how do we make sure that this is an additive image or something like that so I think that's a really great point to bring up. What about you David you always use these features or they something that you kind of discovered later on. They were something that I discovered later on so early on I was annotation was text responses to text was how I was thinking about it. And in some cases, depending on the complexity of the idea is just making sense in our own words is particularly meaningful. Students used some different approaches early, especially when I would assign more textbook type readings that were defining concepts and showing how they work so in one example. In working with the idea of program logic models and theories of change which may or may not know. Those are things that some students really get right away and others need a visual for that goes beyond the text. And so I noticed that some students would reply saying, I was struggling with this and then I found this brief video on YouTube that really helped me make sense of the relationship and I like how they visualized it here and then they might even have a screenshot of that. I was like, Oh, perfect. Right. This is this is something that I can now model and encourage them to do and like as with what Janet just said, I'm often looking for in the annotations right things that go beyond great idea or I love the way they phrase this I want the why right what did you love about it. Why was that a good idea or if they're going to add a video. How did that bring it to life in a way that that made more sense than the way that the authors and the text explained it so that that got me thinking about how to do that and then I changed the guidance that I give and also the the way that I do the first annotations, I bring in more of a variety to try and model that and then and then I also do some of what Janet described of highlighting particularly effective examples for the class and I try to use that both to make sure that I'm highlighting strengths of every student in the class at some point in the course really show all the different things each person brings to the way that they engage with the course and content and also to show the variety of ways that we can that we can deepen our own understanding and help others deepen their understanding of of a text or resource. Thank you David that's really amazing how the students have shaped the way that the assignment is has been you know going in your courses and then also how they can shape, you know, each other's understanding of the text in the annotations as well. And you kind of answered my follow up question was going to be how is it shifted, you know, if you discovered tags and multimedia later on how is it shifted how you approach this assignment so you hit the nail on the head with that. I am wondering, because Janet talked a little bit earlier about how she is a multimodal composition instructor. Does social annotation align with your own pedagogy David or has it changed your pedagogical approach in any way. So it aligns nicely with my approach to pedagogy I would add a basic level my pedagogy is learner centered also very structured on adult learning principles since we're a professional graduate school. We're constantly working kind of on the cycle of or Venn diagram perhaps of research theory practice. Our students are developing and honing their professional identities they're also building a toolkit of sources and resources that they'll be able to use in their futures as educators. So that kind of annotation becomes both a kind of process tool for engaging with text, but also a tool that I encourage my students to think about in terms of how they may use it. So the kinds of futures my students may have might be things like as a director of study abroad or as working with international students, so they may develop orientation programs. So that social annotation can be wonderful ways to introduce students to policies and practices, especially if those are in different cultural settings, because they allow us to really check and question definitions and meanings. And how those work and what those might really look like so. So if it is multi layered for me in terms of how it connects to who I'm teaching what I'm teaching them about and both the tool itself is useful. Also, the conversations we have about how the tool may or may not help them in their own learning, how it may align with or not align with the ways that they've previously experienced teaching and learning or the way they think about education the purpose and goals of education. So it's more and more multi layered as I play with it, and definitely served a lot of function in terms of, I mentioned earlier in all my classes I really try to de center authority and question voice. So being able to begin a text by putting an annotation on the author and writing here is who they are here is the perspective they're writing from here are some of the critiques of the work or the way that they have seen the world. So that we go into that text, really thinking about who's writing it who did they write it for why did they write it. How might they have approached it is has really added a lot to some things that I otherwise would have felt like I had to do separately now they're embedded into the reading of the text and and modeling that once works really well right from there and every annotation, someone will chime in on the author and someone else will add more and someone will find a YouTube of them and you know things like that so that we really are thinking about both the ideas and where they came from and what they may mean so I don't know if that was quite the answer or a wonder it definitely feels to me like it helps me get at that idea of student centered learning and really helping the students be engaged, take on their own agency and find within each text meanings that are of value and use to them. I love that David I love the pointing to the author and showcasing who they are and all all of that aspect of rhetoric, which, again, you can decide that you are going to create a hypothesis assignment. Instead of necessarily commenting on regular type of close reading you can ask them to do. Okay, find an example of ethos find an example of logos. Find an example of what the author is trying to do to persuade you to buy what they're trying to sell. Use their power in this particular way, trying to you know whatever it is and I love that you're pointing to that and this ideal idea of multi layers. Again, what you had said a lot of these things that we might have to do outside of the text. You can do it in hypothesis and it's all there it's all interconnected and it really shapes our work differently, and allows us to use those other outside opportunities in a different way. So, I really appreciate you mentioning all those things David. I totally agree I absolutely love the idea of adding those annotations about you know the position of the author and how that's influencing the rest of the text. Okay, in the chat for any sooner we have about 10 minutes left so if anyone has questions if you could start putting those into the chat. I'm going to ask. Janet, if you can just share I know you mentioned about how hypothesis kind of fits with your pedagogy. Has it changed your pedagogical approach at all and then I want to give some time for questions as well. As you know when you're in an online class you have to be purposeful. So you can build community, but you really have to not rely on your personality when you walk in the classroom to build it you have to do it in a more purposeful type of way. And so what I found with hypothesis is that it pushes the walls out, and it really brings in what's wonderful about online teaching in a way that wasn't there quite before we were I was able to use other tools to interact. When you're in a classroom you can assign a text and then have students actively talk about a text together. This really allows that to happen in a more deep and collaborative way. And so I feel like it's kind of been the missing piece to what I was trying to do with my online classes and so you know teachers a lot of times say oh in person is way better and I would always say no it can be just as great online. And I was always trying to find ways to really make that happen and I find I have found that hypothesis is that tool that that was the missing link for me. Wow that's great I and I agree with you to I keep my classes and online class and the level of engagement with the students is just, and the natural engagement that sometimes is difficult to get through other tools has really changed my experience of teaching online. So I do want to give some time. Does anyone in our audience have any questions for Janet and David since they have brought so many really interesting new teaching ideas to the surface. Any other questions about how they are implementing some of these ideas or anything about their experiences. If people questions I want to share something about community building that connects with what Janet just said were in my current classes they are I have about 40% of my students in person about 40% synchronously online and about 20% who engage fully synchronously so in the same class. And so a big part of how we and I tried to structure is to build both the instructor presence and the student presence, and the social annotation really has helped do that. And another thing that I like about it is it allows us to hear every student voice and perspective, rather than just those who raise their hand, or otherwise participate. So that alongside things like video discussion boards. Things like flip grid or go react that I might use to get those video introductions. And along with doing kind of at the opening of every module a brief video by me where I say hello, introduce them to talk the concept tell them what I'm excited about in that module, and how the work is meaningful to me. It's very additive. And a thing that I've noticed is then outside of annotations. I hear or read students referencing one another saying, Oh, this is like the kind of thing that Rachel often notices in our readings right. I'm finding myself starting to see in that similar way. I've gotten confirmation that it really does build a community of learners and they become real people to one another by seeing what different people highlight and how they react to ideas. And they're then saying, Hey, this might be a great resource for Bridget, who keeps bringing up things about working with elementary students in a, you know, multi lingual classroom. And so they, they really are seeing each other in the annotations and in the text and that's that's exciting to me. I totally agree with that experience that's been my experience as well to just see students kind of unprompted start, you know, referencing each other's annotations referencing referencing content that's happened prior in the course in ways that I don't. It didn't really happen in my courses before unless I was like kind of pulling it out of them. So, my experience has been really similar to yours it does build community in a way that I think is kind of difficult with other tools. So, I haven't seen any questions in the chat. David had kind of like a last thought there Janet you do you have any last thoughts that you want to share. I just wanted to say that I love that you pointed that out David because again, it because there's not a gap, it's just between you and the text, you're really able to have that model for students. So instead of saying hey read somebody else's paper which is a good idea read somebody else's paper on this article. It's an excellent example students are able to see before they go to write the paper, what the stronger students are doing which is really important that they are natural models and it goes. It creates the students leadership qualities and promotes student agency and it doesn't just privilege the teacher voice which is really important so thank you for bringing that up. Thank you so much. Janet and David I've, I have so many ideas I have to lay kind of process through before I sit with my syllabus for spring. I am going to pass it back to Franny for our last couple minutes, but thank you again. Yeah, thank you so much. This has been a really really rich discussion. And I can't wait to watch the recording and really dig in and my wheels have been spinning as well. For ways that we can, you know, incorporate people's ideas in how we reach out to people especially with assignments, you know, people seem to love that. And so thank you again, both of you, and thank you to our wonderful moderator Christy who is one of those people who can talk and do things at the same time. I'm not one of those people so I really admire that. I've dropped into the chat. Reach out to me, Franny at hypothesis there's a period between the penultimate s and the last s. And if you're interested if you have ideas about liquid margins or if you're interested in possibly being a guest on the show, I'd love to hear from you. Yeah, and I want to wish everybody. If you have some time off next week. Enjoy. And we will see you probably, possibly in December for another liquid margins, or and definitely in January. I will let people know. And there'll be a recording of this, I will share that out to all registrants and attendees. I just wanted to give Janet and David chance if they want to say goodbye or any parting anything. Thank you so much for having me and it was wonderful to be on the panel with you, David. I, it helped encourage me think of more ideas of how to use the tool as well. Me too. So I'll say thank you to to Janet and also the hypothesis team for the opportunity. Just as we encourage our students to reflect on hypothesis is one tool to do that, getting a chance to reflect on my own teaching has helped me clarify some things and get some new ideas, as well as hearing all the great things in chat I have all these windows open now from all the things folks have contributed so thank you all for the opportunity and have a wonderful rest of the day and weekend. Yeah, thank you so much. And we'll see you next time on liquid margins. Thank you.