 that. So welcome everyone. This is the monthly general meeting for the hyper ledger meeting and entertainment special interest group and today we have an exciting opportunity to start developing a round table for the blockchain AI. Randy is going to has put some information in the chat or there's some housekeeping. Andy just ready. Just want to let us know what's in the chat there. Yes, good morning everyone. Thank you for attending. I'm just loading in the code of conduct in the chat and you're welcome to go and view our code of conduct as well as our antitrust statement and I'm going to load that in right now and I will also load in our LinkedIn link so that you can stay in touch and we can stay in touch with you as we have new things being developed and also you can find us on discord. So thank you again for attending and thank you to all of our round table participants. Thank you, Randy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So Karen Kilroy and Ethan Kuhl welcome and we have we're tasked today with building something that I think is going to be very helpful and that is our entertainment industry blockchain and AI round table. I have some ideas. We all have some ideas on how this should be structured but today what I'd like to do is just kind of formalize those ideas, talk about who we should target to bring on board, how we should go about. Randy's going to take some notes and develop sort of a framework for this and then we can publish it and follow up at another meeting whether it be our next monthly meeting or we start a set a series of separate meetings outside of our general meeting group. So Karen you're the the resident AI and blockchain expert. I'm going to propose that and vote you. I'm going to cast the first vote for either yourself or Ethan to be the moderator of this round table. Tell me what your thoughts are on that and whether you're up for the task which I know you are but are you? Go ahead. There's only one way to find out. It's like the first time I steered a rowing shell at night time the the coach said who's an experienced coxswain? I said well I've done it once and he said well then that makes you experienced. There you go. I think I think you have a little more experience in AI and blockchain than just once. So I'm willing to give anything a go you know. I actually have moderated before. I moderated a discussion that was for it was the Australia House blockchain panel at South by Southwest and that was really a lot of fun. Well maybe you can bring some of that experience to our to our newfound round table. What are your thoughts on having Karen as our fearless leader here for the new blockchain AI round table? Is your vote in favor of that or do you want to tell me offline? I wouldn't have it any other way. That sounds good. Well, Randy you have your first note to take. Our official moderator is Karen Kilroy. So that's we have a good start. Yes we do. Thank you Karen. Stay on topic here Karen with your a little bit more about what you were doing with South by Southwest and what did you learn from that experience as a moderator and tell us a bit more about the blockchain the venue that you were in with South by Southwest. Go ahead. Sure South by Southwest was in Austin and that was a lot of fun. This was pre-pandemic. I can't remember what year it was. We started doing that I think probably 2019 was when Australia House had their had their blockchain panel and I got asked to moderate it and it was interesting hearing the different points of view and coming up with something that would keep the conversation flowing. We had a packed house. It was in Austin. They clear out bars and restaurants for South by Southwest and they make them into venues and we had the entire venue plus the patio where they had screens and speakers on that topic of blockchain at Australia House. That was really fun. But since then I've had a blockchain panel South by Southwest almost every year save. I think there was one year I didn't we did ours for the and the pandemic. They cancelled South by Southwest but we actually had recorded our panel exactly the time that we would have had it. So it was interesting. But moving on now I'm working with Ethan. I'm here in Northwest Arkansas. Ethan and I have an event coming up too that is at the Northwest Arkansas Tech Conference and that's at the end of the month and then we also we've applied for South by Southwest panel picker and South by Southwest panel picker is they should be announcing it soon but our topic is going to be exactly what we're talking about here. How to take how to make AI accountable and not leave people in the dust while big companies just make lots of money off of our knowledge and move on without us and I know there's no reason for it because they're going to make a lot of money. So that you know the and then plus two you know the other side of that coin is certain companies are going to want to show that they are responsible and that they pay people fairly and and so by providing standards for that and trust logos we're going to be able to then you know help those companies as well stand out from their from their less responsible competition and yeah so can I can I just can I just jump in for a second I love where you're where you're taking this Karen and Randy can you just make a quick note you said trust logo that genuine Randy just note that trust logo idea the concept of trust logo I have to this is so important because and this is our goal a trust logo I'm assuming you mean like an ISO type of standard where if you've been certified as ISO then you recognize and you've been trained to understand your responsibilities under the ISO standard so this trust logo idea is this the sort of thing I see you shaking your head even is this am I on the right track here yes and we're fortunate enough to be able to hook on to a train that's already left the station which is C2PA and the content authenticity initiative um if I could share my screen for a moment I'd like to show you their new website which I think is really exciting you should be all right yeah let me share that window there we go okay can you see yeah I can see yes I can okay so this is the new content uh credential site as produced by the content authenticity initiative which is part of C2PA which is a a roll-up of adobe microsoft new york times bbc sony and other companies and the non-profit that Ethan and I run friends of just and we are also contributing members to this so rather than reinvent the wheel a really good thing to do would be to participate with this group and follow their meticulous standards their their work is all really well done they've got the top people in the world working on it and they're accessible I don't know what more you know we could ask for and so in this case let me tell you how this is the the demo that they're giving here and then I'll actually show you a demo of how it works um we've got an image and they're showing here that this logo can appear in the corner and and it provides content credentials and so there's content claims um and it helps you build trust in what you're seeing online you click the content claim and then you can inspect the image and the inspect is going to actually launch the content credentials dot org verify site and the verifier lets you see the history of that file and where where it came from like in this case this image was generated with an ai tool um it was uh uh it was done with the doby firefly 1.0 um then they you know they have even more details in here and and then uh then they give information about who issued the credential and when now you can go on and you can put all different kinds of claims and information in here and one of the main ways that they're heading with this and and I'll stop and take a breath after I say this part is where it can be used and who to pay so uh that I will uh stop for a moment and open that back up for discussion is this uh now we and we discussed this in our meeting we are in the meeting you and I had Karen a few weeks ago I mean I love this this is this is phenomenal but is this currently in production being used by okay so who's using this particular product the cr content credentials product is it free is it a is it open source is it okay it's free and it's open source and the engineers are accessible you can ask them questions and you can also once you if you join you you have access to their discussions like it's it's as it's as transparent as can be they have some blockchain integration already with MetaMask and one other wallet but that was designed several years ago for NFTs so there's no reason like a blockchain integration couldn't be done with hyper ledger fabric and and if I may for a minute I'm going to stop this share and I'm going to go into adobe photoshop and show you how mainstream this is so if I uh let me uh it's going to take me a second here to find my adobe hold on okay photoshop 2024 and this is something that you have to turn on in the preferences I think it doesn't do it automatically and as soon as photoshop that really cuts your bandwidth down in your your internet connections so we can really feel that Karen you're looks like you're freezing up a bit yeah can you see photoshop let me turn off my camera yes you yes so I see uh photoshop yes I see your files I see lightroom photos you're highlighted that's you okay so now you're in your your your mac browser okay you should see a figure eight yes yes okay that's a photoshop file now I'm going to export it copyright and contact info is one thing but then publish to content credentials cloud so let's put all that and then we export uh let's see where it's going to go export downloads hyper ledger one okay so now let me exit photoshop okay now I should be back to better bandwidth now can you hear me yes okay so now I'll go into the verifier and I'll share that and let me go into the verifier share and I'm going to get pull the file in that we just now made okay see the little figure eight guy so I'm not yet okay can you see it yeah okay so now here you can see this is just straight out of photoshop right all I did was click something produced by karen hillroy there's my linkedin account which I could also get my linkedin verified with clear and then I'm official on linkedin even that that's you know they can go to linkedin and see that my identity has actually been verified um you can also verify on linkedin through your own company um you know if you're if you work for a big place um okay and then here it tells you what I use photoshop whatever that version is that I created a new file or content and that I used other tools like pencils brushes erasers which is exactly what I did my this certificate was issued by adobe and then here's when it was issued now we can issue our own uh content credentials by building this process into any program and then we can connect those contact the content credentials on blockchain appear where it said where it had social media accounts this is where it would connect with metamask if we were using metamask to say uh here's an address where you can uh I don't know what you would do with that address it wasn't really clear the way they were using it um but uh I would think that you know with with hyper ledger fabric we could put the verification right in here you know as one of these claims and say here is the hash here is the ability to verify this on blockchain because they already hash uh the image they already take the fingerprint and then the next step is only to put that fingerprint then on blockchain you know and that helps so and actually it's interesting one of their recommendations to locate uh images that you can't find anymore is to search on the hash like if it lost its credentials you could supposedly hook it back up with its credentials by searching on its fingerprint right right so there you go so it seems like we really fit into this because these are very free form uh the assertions uh that you can make uh like these are assertions here that say here's what happened but these assertions could be anything it could be um actor went into studio and and did body scan um you know actor signed off on on body scan um you know uh account payment account was set up you know restrictions here's the restrictions on using this data to train something else Karen can you pull up that one of those images that you said was created by AI I'd like to see some of the metadata down on the right side here that uh uh so can you oh Microsoft is another one too by the way uh you can go to Bing AI and have it create an image and then pull it in here and see the credentials oh with Bing yeah can I be done with chat gbt or any of them or just been I haven't tried uh chat gpt okay are they using are they using ipfs with this does anybody know are they uh is that no okay I don't think so I haven't heard that so the the the cloud storage for this this is free I mean this is or is it you have to have a beta account with uh it's free adobe so there are adobe cloud storage for this for content credentials is is free wow that's crazy it's it's it doesn't actually take the image anywhere I don't think uh and uh I think it operates like it keeps the image in the browser and sends sends something up I I'm not a hundred percent sure exactly how that part works I haven't you know been able to see the code in the verifier I haven't gotten that far okay um but uh yeah from what I understand it sends up the manifest itself the manifest yeah so everything you're seeing on the right side of the screen that's what's actually going into the cloud um so it's a really lightweight file you know it's probably why why it's free yeah is there a hash in that manifest or is that just uh yeah there's a hash in there okay okay yeah Randy I think it's a good candidate for one of your note taken content credentials application the content credentials I think is good I I um I like this I like the uh I like how this uh uh I I can see this exactly as you're saying Karen working with with our with our roundtable I mean I can see it as being part of that I wonder who else is and what else is being developed along these lines here I also see this I wonder if if uh one day once we get our roundtable going if we can't bring it to the uh the uh the the software group for the uh it's a it's a it's a uh it's under the hybrid edge umbrella it's under the and I'm um you know I'm drawing a blank here but I'll pull it up um I want to show you I'm going to share my screen if you could stop sharing the screen there Karen before I do Brett could you go ahead look at this because you asked me to pull this up this oh yes I'm sorry yes yes generated image and it shows you just what it created using a style reference image okay okay okay so it says right there AI tool you so it doesn't okay that's really crazy that is really good yeah I like that and then it'll also uh find similar images and you can set up parent images so like if I if I set this up and then I pulled I changed it I could uh then uh set the content credentials to show that this is the parent image when anyone searches for it so like if I put stars behind them and then you know uh and then set this one with with blank background it's the parent it would show the tree of evolution of how the image evolved and give all we have now no kidding yeah yep but that is so that is um okay so I have a question what is the so the parent image someone so if a third party someone other than the creator uses that image their work is going to be on top of this as well is that uh yeah you're going to see you're going to see the creator's image and then you're going to see your work and that's going to show up in the in the in the file in the holder in the folder that has this file is that correct yeah yeah there's ways to to wipe it out you know like it's if you use something that doesn't support the standard to modify it and resave it it's going to just erase all your all your metadata but if you and also too I think it depends because it also has the ability as long as the manifest is in the cloud like Ethan was saying it can search on the fingerprint so like let's do search for possible matches I don't think it's going to find anything on this one yeah that's a pretty uh that's a pretty unique image yeah yeah I don't think it's gonna find anything on that one but if it was one like their sample it brings up all kinds of them like let's see if I can try to find their sample I've been experimenting so much I'm not sure which one's worked yeah here you go here's one I signed with my own with the with our own nonprofit that Ethan and I have friends of Justin with our own x.509 and this is their sample file though that they give with the code so if I search for similar files it's going to come up with a lot of them oh it came up with other so it's gonna it's it's gonna come up with a lot of them and they're not all gonna be mine but here uh you can see okay yeah yeah yeah wow that is two credentials for and then here this one's got web three addresses I'm glad we looked at that one so they would have been they would have been so so this would be an NFT someone created an NFT with this is that a fair assumption I think that's a fair assumption yeah yeah wow that's a test but so you can see where it came from here's a different one they put a web three address to different web three addresses yeah tells what they did imported pre-existing content so the only way to when you when you see that in the meta in the manifest on the site are those links clickable to the will it open a wallet or a browser or maybe they were if you have it installed I think oh okay so you can so can you open a open up a blockchain browser on your or an explorer just go to go to blockchain just go to blockchain.com just go to blockchain.com and you should be you should just go to the explorer there explorer you see in the middle there oh okay there you go hit that and then paste that address at the top see where it says search just paste it right there there you go okay I didn't do a search blockchain there it is right there that's the transaction click on that we should see some when it was there you go where's the summary when was it okay so someone could contribute money that way no this well this is a this is a this should give us more this is the NFT but it should give us some more metadata here about when it was created and so this is interesting I mean somebody probably just did this as a test because that's a test graphic yeah yeah yeah I just wanted to see what what they well they would have to put a okay so these are derivatives of that pst1 correct there there we go what was that uh go back in your screen one there so what is it that did this so this is Tony Regato went into photoshop changed something and saved the sample file and and on April 7th and then put it in this verifier to test it I don't even know if he would have to have it in the verifier he would just have to have the check mark that said save it in the cloud probably works for doby right right good this is their sample person joe blogs that they have in the manifest so this somebody signed it with their own certificate that might be a test certificate and then uh I think it is the test certificate so this is just somebody signed it on November 17th using their test certificate but then I signed it with no bots claim generator which is what we call our our claims generator and it's issued by friends of just and that's actually a real certificate that we purchased through global sign so the claims generator is that specific to adobe here no no the generator can be built by anybody it's there's a whole open source tool kits that you can download and and you can build the pieces that that will be able to there's something called c2pa tool and then there's also a rust implementation of it we talked about I remember that yes yes yes yes there's a javascript and a rust implementation of it so using either one of those tool kits people can implement this now into their own into their own process into their own like you saw the two ways that they're using it like one is to uh say okay a person made this and here's to prove that a person did this and then another way was here's to prove that an ai did this and then there's also a mel that here's to prove that an ai and a person both did this and here's how it went down this is the claims generator talking about yeah the whole content so that the claims generator is going to be a tool that we're going to use to develop our property and user in fact our the client would use the claims generator we have to start with that correct if we're going to help a company an actor a musician a film producer we need to start somewhere and that would be one of those places would be the claims generator is that a fair assessment i think it's an excellent place to start because that it's it's uh blockchain ready you know so randy throw that claims generator that's uh that's one of our notes we want to throw on there so that's uh that's really good let me um let me share my screen here i just want to uh because we do have a few things to talk about i want to i want to just quickly show you something that that let me first of all get it we have um i had a meeting with a discussion with hyper ledger and we are we are we are interested in or we are talking about we had a discussion about a roundtable in the music industry and actually i'm not going to share my screen but i'm gonna talk about this just briefly but this is a an opportunity that that i think is going to sort of dovetail with what we're doing and i think that we're going to be able to ride this wave as well and that is a large percentage of developers in the software industry are into music and hyper ledger did a poll excuse me and the poll was found that 58 percent of hyper ledger devs play a musical instrument wow and 31 and 30 31 play regularly so between 63 and i'm reading just some stats here between 63 and 88 percent of software developers listen to music at work at least some of the time often when writing code or doing repetitive tasks silicon valley tech titans are also rock stars so the the the idea here and in our discussion i had last week there is some there is big interest in hyper ledger music and developing some type of collaboration in the music industry and building blockchain and attracting blockchain coders to the music industry specifically using code to develop music using not so much from an AI perspective but not and not so much from a from an entertainment law perspective but in in many ways getting the people that are using that are developing software that love music to start looking at hyper ledger as being the go to chain for music this is just one side of it so yeah i wanted to bring that to your attention to let you know that that there's some bigger things happening within hyper ledger um and so one of the things that that uh they're talking about uh if hyper ledger foundation had a song theme or soundtrack what would it be so now we're talking about doing a competition uh and the winners would be judged by our community the hyper ledger community and the winners there would be a an industry event that the winners these are musicians we can find them in the in the industry um creating music performing music and then the winners of a competition would play at a leading industry blockchain event so so it's a really fun and exciting things that that we're talking about here so we're looking at things like history of music and coding uh creative correlations of music and coding examples of music music and coding the emerging of tech and then graduating into the whole hyper ledger and where hyper ledger stands in in music so that this plays into what we're doing and so i wanted to get you guys excited about the fact that you know this is something that that we're looking at doing and it's uh it means that uh means hyper ledger is very very excited about getting involved in in uh i was just reading the fingers off screen there so but yeah this is a uh you know we have uh we have some great opportunity we're not there yet but we've got some great we've got some road maps being built by people other than us uh within our within the umbrella of hyper ledger so so it's all it's all really good stuff so look what do you think you've been you've been you've been sitting there nice and quiet go ahead did you got the floor for a bit tell us you're excited now he loves me well thank you yeah i mean i'm that competition sounds perfect for you know getting getting this implementation out there you know all the musicians would be able to say hey i created this music and that's that's really for us this whole thing started with the mindset of how do we protect artists from the ai revolution and how do we make sure that they get paid for any work that they're creating and so i think it fits perfectly into into our mission um and uh you know additionally um i think you know what we've been thinking a lot about recently is is ai data economies how do we create a safe way for people to get paid for any data that they create that may be ingested by um during ai training and so this is um you know especially for entertainment the entertainment industry we we've been seeing a huge use case there with sag afra and with the writers uh going on strike and one of the key points being we want to make sure that our work is uh protected or um you know that we don't have to use ai in our work and uh i think what was super interesting also was the fact that uh recently sag afra was saying that they were going to that they were backing out in negotiations because they were seeing that studios were just going to force actors to sign waivers on ai um and using their likeness in future ai generated content um so um you know i just think there's a huge landscape out there for for uh both you know these credentials that assert that this is the data that i've created or this is my likeness plus the ability to use a blockchain to securely transmit any transactions that may happen you know writing a smart contract around their data so that they're able to uh ensure that they get paid fairly for for the use of that data but that's really you know from our from my perspective at least where where i really see a lot of this kind of tying in together is creating a sustainable ai data economy um for any kind of creatives in the entertainment industry i like the buzz in that uh that ethan just said the creative ai economy well those are the words that you used ethan yes randy randy can you just make a point of that the creative ai economy and that's an economy that needs to be properly uh identified and properly addressed and properly distributed and inefficiently distributed and your that whole concept of using smart contracts if we can identify that participants piece of data that they contributed and if a smart contract properly distributes the uh uh well use the word payment an agreed upon payment for that piece of data then that is a that is uh contributing to the economy of the entire industry fairly and you know equally so this is something that our round table which you can or moderate is going to talk about we're going to find ways so i think it's uh you know we've got about 15 18 minutes here we should talk about who we need to pull together from what industry what industries and industry sectors to uh join this round table and accompany us on this journey we have obviously people here that are ready and are going to participate all four of us i know randy had told me and expressed interest before that she would like to play a role in this but did i get that randy from you before yes that's correct and definitely uh your participation is is uh is welcome and and warranted um we need to think about who and we can't have too many people i see um um i see uh uh participants from the uh uh uh various blockchain communities that would have interest in this at least somebody from that on the coding side on the technical side of things and that may not be someone initially from the technical coding side but it could be someone from the community side of certain uh blockchain communities that would participate with us go ahead i have a thought um okay so this is a big one um the university of arkansas where i'm a student i'm a music student in the music program uh and so there i'm like a an example of your crossover there um but they just announced on friday that they have a program that is an integration of data analytics and music and they also have one of the only blockchain institutes in the world at the university of arkansas and so i think that it's a it's it's just a perfect opportunity to get um to marry that up people who need what we're doing and can understand it and can help us push it forward um and actually give us a physical place ethan and i have a uh an office uh that is complimentary from university of arkansas so they're helping us um their entrepreneurship program um and uh so it would be um i think that you know we have a lot of doors that are open i've already asked my instructor i started there after i read this article on friday but if i could share it for a second do you mind if i share the article absolute no no go ahead so give me a second here i have to find it uh hold on while caron is looking for the article i just wanted to add i i just think it's very important that we um keep it um where um we attract those that don't necessarily have the resources um that can come in um be able to have an opportunity to come in and um share their creative what in music in in terms of this case but be able to share that and also be able to have the opportunity to marry that together with technology and i think what we're doing here is an excellent opportunity for those that want to be included um that i think yes so i i just wanted to add that so i just think that this would be a good form um as well for that as well great great yes i i agree and um so so uh if i could take a moment this is the uh this is the the program that they just announced um the data science and department of music launch industry first collaboration and um it goes beyond um just uh so here's how you do the engineering pieces on the computer this is more like the analytics like what happens uh after the music is is done where does it go um let's see music industry data analytics and i just read this yesterday so pardon me if i'm not really up on it but um let's see karen can you share that link in the chat yeah i'd like to store i'd like to have that uh but i know some of these people i know jaker herzog i can walk up and find him and uh these are all musicians too other than this carl schubert guy who is uh in data science uh but there's really dovetails with what you're saying um hang on get back to the chat in a second okay so you should be able to get that now got it got it yeah thank you yeah sure so so at any rate um this is uh interesting this could be uh a place where we could find people to test things possibly so it's just some ideas and we have close connections there so it might be interesting to find out what connections a hyper ledger foundation has with the university's blockchain institute you know it could be that there's already a relationship there yeah i i i don't know and i think it's fantastic that you have inroads to that i think that uh we definitely could make use of that after we establish some we start our journey in with this round table but that definitely is going to be a great asset to us and you're having those connections karen is going to be really really good um we need people this round table has to be populated by industry people in all the industries that we want to address so we need ai and we have ai here with you guys we need blockchain i have blockchain i have experience we need entertainment law i have i have access and connections in entertainment law we need some everybody we need film production we need producers of film to be part of this round table they can bring their issues they don't have to have any technical experience at all but they just have have to have experience in film production accounting so film accounting and you know payments processes we need to populate so i'll start with randy if you could put in film accounting film production entertainment law ai blockchain karen nathan any one thing i thought of is union i would really like to know what the writer's guild settled on with ai because see all those things are going to have to be tracked and traced it would be interesting to be able to say okay here's the here's the recommend here's the the requirements based on what made them happy this is what they settled with so here this is probably a reasonable list of requirements to build into a manifest so that's kind of what we're looking for is requirements to build into that manifest i agree with you i mean so does that mean that we we we connect with the writer's guild i think it would be really good start and we and we ask the writer's guild if they'll give us some input on on you know what what protections do they think they have so maybe we asked a representative of the writer's guild to sit in the round table that would be that would be that would be an interesting start now right now today you can't issue cp c2pa credentials for pdf and i don't know why they're holding back on that they haven't done that yet so it's all images so you know with that that might not be the best place to start but i was just really curious as to what they settled on films right now you can stamp them anything there's like it gives on the website um what the let me share real quick and i'll show you what the what we have to work with so under randy under film production can you put uh film editors okay film editors um and under film accounting can you put uh production accountants um here's the okay i'll share this list it's share screen okay so right now today the supported formats avif dng hgic hgif jpeg m4a mp3 mp4 png svg tiffwave webp so there's a lot of images and there's some motion you know mp4 right right but it yeah so in film production sound yeah that's all that yeah sound included in that p3 yep mp3 in ways so music is a good place to start too yeah music will music will be a great place to start i mean there are all kinds of issues in in music so music producers in that list randy um uh music agents agents both uh actors agents so i guess that would be that would be the industry industry representatives it would be a good subject once we get this list nailed down we then need to go out and find the people and and we we have to formalize an introduction to the round table so we're all using it the same way we're all introducing the round table the same way so between now and the next meeting we have um i would like to with everybody maybe by email or or some informal method propose the name of the group and write an introduction that we can go out into the industries all these industries that we want to participate and i'd like to see maybe up to 12 to 15 people on this round table you know i in fact an odd number just so that after it is a vote that needed to be taken we could have a quorum right i thought of one other job type that i don't want to forget ai product ai product manager for any of industries any of the entertainment industries games and don't forget games games really important part of all this any we have a we have a gaming guy in our i don't know me see who's not here today uh sandy so gaming put gaming in there randy and what i'm sorry karen you you what did you ai product manager for any of the entertainment industries right okay that would be a job title i would think that we would look for an ai product manager so like who's do they have one that would be it's what i've been told is that everybody either has one or will music coder music coders coders that play music the music and coders that write music with code electronic music in the group um i think we should uh are all you guys i karen and nithin are you on telegram i am i think i don't know if i have nithin are you on telegram are you on uh i am not no i can be yeah you want a few if you can be i'm on it okay if you can be uh randy are you on telegram yeah i'm on telegram okay so we can create a group on telegram here and um i'm gonna give you uh i'm gonna give you actually uh karen karen killer are you under karen kilroy should be yeah uh karen no no results so that's in that's or you know what i'm sorry duh what's wrong no i i here i am thinking you're in my group you're not in my group i don't know you probably can't see it yeah so what is um okay so give me see ethan i'll tell you what i have karen i have your email right i will share this well you know what we'll do i'll tell you what we'll do let's start with this ethan are you on linkedin ethan's on linkedin randy you're on linkedin right okay so let's start a chat in linkedin and i'll i'll grab everything and then we'll start to compile this randy you have some notes uh that you can you can assemble it better than you've written them there about what we've talked about today um i'll put together a group on linkedin just we'll just you know jump start this for now um the next step here is we have to we have to formulate an invitation formulate formally create this group announce it once we have a name then create an invitation to certain people we address them and connect with them via linkedin email any way you guys see as being the most efficient way uh and we try to pull together 15 industry reps and start this discussion about the 400 things that we we have to talk about so whether we then start meeting once a week or once every two weeks and pick a date or i i'm not sure but uh definitely um we could probably do a once every couple of weeks thing for half an hour at least to get it started you know meet meet at a convenient time i know randy's in the west coast uh specific time i'm in the east coast eastern time your mountain time ethan are you mountain time are you mount essential excuse me centrally so you're you're an hour back of me and randy's three hours back of me so we have to find it which is always a difficult thing to do and it's going to be more difficult if you have 15 people to find that decent so um i'll continue the discussion here on linkedin we could move it even to discord if we want um how are you with discord karen and ethan are you a fan of discord i mean i have it you're shaking your head here you're not a fan i made myself a rule like a long time ago that i wouldn't eat any new animals and i wouldn't try any new social media you know i i get it you know what i already had two animals i already had this discussion with hyper ledger at our chairs meeting the other day about how many i mean just how many social groups do people want to join to get information right which is why which is why linkedin is so good because everybody's on linkedin so it's not so let's start with uh so i get it i'm there 100 uh let's start with uh let's start with linkedin i'm gonna i'm gonna put and um randy's gonna get some her notes together yeah we'll formalize these notes and then we'll we'll start we'll formulate a proper professional invitation we'll vote on it make sure it's good and then uh uh we'll get it out we'll start drawing people in and then talk to karen and ethan about the uh the university and about where where they or are they going to be down there a little bit once we get established do we go to them and start pulling them in so karen we i also asked you about bitcoin if you remember our conversation our private conversation so i need to talk to you about that because i completely forgot about it but let's go we'll do that we'll do that outside of here and um um but we'll we'll get that sorted out for you but it's one o'clock our meeting is over thank you karen and thank you ethan randy thank you it was good a great discussion yeah we're excited about where we're going and uh we'll see you all soon very soon thank you again good talking to you guys karen and ethan ethan thank you take care guys thank you thanks randy