 One of the question that comes up is when exactly were the disciples saved where they say before Christ death on the cross or after it comes up when discussing Really John 6 is this issue of when exactly were the disciples saved now as we look at the passage You might see why this particular issue comes up. So let's go to John 6 Verse 37 says all that the Father gives me will come to me and whoever comes to me I will never cast out for I have come down from heaven not to do my own will But the will of him who sent me and this is the will of him who sent me that I should lose none of Nothing of all that he has given me but raise him up in the last day So the issue is going to be because some folks will say I agree that Every last person that the father has given all that he has given He says will come and whoever comes will not cast out some will say that that doesn't necessarily mean that All those that come were all the ones that were given in other words There might be some who come who weren't given well That's you can't really get that from this particular passage. And so when you look at verse 44 I think it also makes it clear it Let's drop down to verse 44 and it says that no one can come to me unless the father Who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day It is written in the prophets and they will be all they will all be taught by God Everyone who has heard and learned from the father comes to me Not that anyone has seen the father except he who is from God He has seen the father the way he says truly truly I say to you whoever believes has eternal life now We also look at verse 65. I think again that kind of clarifies It says and he said this is why I told you that no one can come to me unless It has been granted to him by the five in other words. You can't come to him unless the father has Granted so and we've told we're told that all that come to him Have been given to him by the father. So the question is going to be well, what about someone like Judas? Judas was also given Judas was chosen but Jesus is not gonna raise him up and so if these disciples these 12 if they were chosen and given to Jesus What about Judas? He was chosen and clearly he does not have salvation. So is that an indication that? He once had it and then he lost it There's one passage that kind of muddies up a little bit for some people Though I don't think it ought to be a problem But let's look at it and let's see if if it says what some say or if we can find out what the true meaning of it is John chapter 17 verse 12 he says while I was with them Speaking of the the disciples he says I kept them in your name which you get which you have given me I have guarded them and not one of them has been lost here It is except the sum just the son of destruction that the scriptures might be fulfilled And so some are gonna take this as though he's kept them, but he did lose one Well that the next still kind of go against what he said It cannot be that he's lost one that he had one and he lost one But he says that he won't he won't lose one, but he'll raise them all up in the last day So we've got a problem. Can it be possible? How do we reconcile the two or can they be reconciled? Every last one that you've given me that you've chosen and you seem to indicate that Judas was chosen was given It seems to indicate that but you lose him or he's lost But you make the statement Jesus that you will raise all of them in the last day You won't lose any you will lose none But you lost Judas well a couple things first of all he did not lose Judas Judas has never been saved Jesus has never been cleansed in John 18 this is where Judas has is coming to betray Jesus and Jesus speaks about this and verse 5 He says they answered him Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said I am he Judas who betrayed him was standing with him When Jesus said to them I am he they drew back and fell to the ground So he asked again whom do you see and they said Jesus of Nazareth verse 8 I told you that I am he so so if you seek me let the meat let these men go So this was to fulfill the word that he had spoken of those whom you gave me I have lost none now notice what he says He's not including Judas Jesus in this statement is not including Judas Judas And so he makes it clear that when he made the statement that all that you that you've given me I have lost none. He was not referencing Judas. We're gonna say another passage, but how do we know that? Let's go back to the passage and I want to show you this. He says all that you gave me This is the Greek Or this is from the Greek the docus which is in the perfect tense Meaning that they had been given some time in the past the perfect tense in Greek is a completed action from the past that has continuous meaning or ramifications and so all the ones that had been given to him in the past He says that I have lost none now in this case. He's speaking of the disciples now let's go to John 13 and That will also help us a little bit in this understanding Chapter 13 of John verse 10 He's Jesus said to them the one who has bathed Does not need to be to be washed Except for his feet, but he is completely clean what he says and you are clean But not every one of you now It will be helpful and in this case certainly to look at the Greek. So I want to do that in verse 10. He says The one who has been bathed and here it is again. We talked about the perfect tense a second ago This is in the perfect tense. So all those who have been the luminous which is all of those who have been bathed Who are now cleansed Not what they do not need to be washed So so Jesus is indicating that these people have already been cleansed Hmm. Well, what could he possibly mean? We'll get to that in just a second But he's going to indicate who has not been cleansed He says and you are and you are clean But not every one of you so who's the not every one of you? Well, some of the someone in this group isn't clean Well, he's gonna tell us for he knew who was to betray him That's why he said not all of you are clean It should be clear that Judas was not one of the ones he's chosen, but then to make it even more clear Let's go to verse 18 and see what it says. He says I am not speaking of all of you I know whom I have chosen, but the scripture will be fulfilled He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me And so Judas is is now he was chosen for the fulfilling of this prophecy But in terms of being saved in terms of being Eventually one of his apostles and so forth that was not what he was chosen for He says I know who I've chosen not all of you have been cleansed And so he's clearly referencing Judas and separating him from the rest So no Judas was not saved And so we cannot say that when we speak of those who are been chosen and been brought in that he won't lose anyone He means just that he will not lose not one now the question is going to be though When were they saved when were they cleansed because Jesus just says they had been cleansed and because it's the perfect tense It is a past actions a completed action from the past when exactly were they cleanse well remember When this is taking place They are still adhering to the day of atonement. These are obviously Good Jewish men, they are still adhering to the old covenant and Jesus says he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill the law Well, the fulfillment of the law in a temporal sense was that their sins will be atoned for and they would be cleansed and being Right-standing before God for a period of one year, which they would adhere to now Ultimately, they're going to have their their sins atoned for and they will be permanently cleansed Forever once Jesus pays the price on the cross But as it stands and there's no reason to think that they they were not Adhering to the day of atonement that they were not violating There's no reason to believe that at all and so these are men who had their sins atoned for Temporarily and now are getting ready to have their sins atoned for Permanently and then turn around and spread the gospel lead other men to do the exact same thing as his Apostles And so my friends I hope this helps that these are men who had had their sins atoned for they are waiting for what Christ is going to do So that there'd be some permanency to their atonement And so I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that they had had their sins atoned for and then in regards to salvation being permanent They were chosen. However, Judas was not