 Welcome back to the breakfast here on PLOS TV Africa. Our next conversation is all about card readers and the next general elections. There currently is a bill to amend and of course make the use of card readers compulsory for elections in Nigeria. It has passed the first reading at the Senate. The Electoral Act Amendment Bill sponsored by Senator Ajibullah Bashiru also contains provision for altering the period for accreditation and voting. The President of Vota Awareness Initiative, Wale Ogunade, is joining us this morning. Thanks for joining us this morning. Good morning to you Mr. Ogunade. Good morning. Good morning my people. How are you? We're fantastic. All right, so let's get into this. For a long time we've spoken about the Electoral Act Amendment Bill, we've spoken about more ways to improve on our electoral process. So when this bill, of course the news about this bill passed, you're broke. Is this good news with regards to our electoral process and making it a more defined process? Yeah, first and foremost, formally maybe using this platform, my heart goes to the family of Yuka Odomaki. We are there yesterday and of course, Akulitz upon Akulitz. And my own, when to Garifah, maybe before he died, I spoke to him, I told him that indeed democracy will grow in this country through the ballot box. And to me it's just like, if it's not mere coincidence that the issue of this card reader bill is coming up, well maybe to celebrate the death of Inka. And to me, all his effort has not been in vain and you can be sure that we're going to succeed because to us in the Anita world, it's Anita, Continoa, Victoria, Assata. And we're going to succeed concerning this. We've started and we are going to get there. And it's just a matter of time. We have to move and push that indeed the card reader must, because there's technology and it must be incorporated in the legal framework for the electoral activities. And now that it has been moved and we know that it will be passed, and of course it will make things easy. I thank God for the life of the, what's his name now, the technician or the engineers who have presented it. Look at it being used there and it makes things easy. When it was before that one person can vote in 10 places, all you need to do is the term print somewhere, go to a corner, remove the ink, go back to that same place or go to another polling unit with his, with where you will vote again. But the card reader wants to have voted in a place that identifies you and of course your term print is registered and you cannot use it to vote in any other point. And to me, it's a wonderful idea and I want to thank God for the soul of Senator Bashiru that introduced the appeal because for a long time, we can, we've done it before, but it was not able to go through the needle's eye. But through him now, you know, that's why sometimes we say that it's good to fight from within. And now we will use this opportunity, just as we discussed yesterday, that we activists to encourage ourselves to go into government, particularly into the long-linking process of this country. So that at both at the federal and the state level, even at the local government because by virtue of Section 7 of the 1999 constitution, it is the local government that itself is the foundation of good governance in this country. So when we have activists who are there, who are the fear of God, who are the mind of the people, then you can be sure that things work. The man who sponsored this bill, Senator, has an activist mind and wants to thank God and bless his soul. And I know that when this bill eventually sees the light of day, there will be significant changes. Because again, as a lawyer, I know that sometimes some of us will go to court and say that it's not legal, it is not a, it is not such a truly bound. So the Tribunal should be circumtenant, the result, because card readers are used. But with this move now, definitely we are off the, we are out of the tunnel. Mr. Augunade, this issue of card readers was introduced in 2015. It's nothing new when it comes to elections in Nigeria. But when it was the time of the 2019 elections, we saw the challenges we had with the card readers. I remember covering some of the elections, polling units during those elections, and people repeatedly complained about malfunctioning card readers. It was not able to authenticate their voter's card. So many other issues, voting could not start on time, it had to be delayed. Eventually they had to go back to using the manual term print system to vote. So what makes us confident, or why should Nigerians have the hope? That these same card readers that they had challenges with in previous elections, you know that INEC is when ready to make this work for the next elections come 2023. You and I, you now the media and I now the civil society comes in. We have to view on the top of INEC. Now that it will become official, it will become a law. They will ensure that everything that needs to be done are done so that we have a perfect card reader equipment on ground. What we had before was something a quick fix thing. Now in Nigeria, what they do, like I'm talking to you now, the card readers are some, the ones that they have, which to me are obsolete, are already stored somewhere. And of course by the time the elections are coming, we'll have an election in November in November. You can be sure that they are not calibrated, nothing is done. And of course, we all have phone systems, you use a phone, I use a phone. And we know that if we don't recharge the phone for three, four, five days, the battery will run down and that's all. And of course, if you are lucky for you, because now we use the phone to do several things and it has a virus, if the virus is not deleted on time, definitely it will affect the phone by it will crash. And that's what happens sometimes to this card reader that my brother is holding. If it is not calibrated, it is not recharged very well. It will crash on the day that it is needed most. And that's why it will be our duty to ensure that I don't need food. Once we have the law, we will look at it, but I guess section 14 or so of that new bill that is coming up talks about putting and using modern and efficient card reader that will not feel at the point of use, so we're sure that they are done. And when I was much younger, I wouldn't know about two people. There was what you call a mock that was done by YF. Before an examination, there will be a mock so that it tests everybody, both themselves and we the students who want to see for the examination. I guess such a thing will be done that will be promoting it. And it will happen that before the election, there will be a mock election where the card readers will be tested and will know the return time. So that everything will work out fine. My election day, all the secret that you complained about, they won't be there. But let me assure you of one thing, Nigeria is working progress. The electoral process is working progress and we'll get it. We'll get the answer optimistic. Obviously, you can't done, but again, some of us are still alive. And even if we are going to, there will be people who take over because we want a better Nigeria. And we can only get it through a better electoral process. If there's no two ways about it. All right, just also mentioned, in the last few months, we've had conversations on INEC voter registration. It was meant to start sometime in 2020. The CVR, of course, didn't start. They then postponed it to the first quarter of 2021, which also failed. Do you think between now and 2023, or the next elections, is enough time for INEC to be able to get every Nigerian registered for the elections? And of course, also fill up all the loopholes with regards to using the card reader for the next general elections. Obviously, we'll get it done 2023 is far, but it's not too far. It's something that can be done. We can mobilize the whole of Nigerians to get registered within 10 weeks, within 10 weeks. And as you are the media, we go around the loops and crannies of this country, we'll do it down. It's about mobilization. It's about awareness. It's about sensitization. And for you to know, the important thing is that you let them know that, look, your vote is important. So come out and register. Get your PVC. Let's see your PVC. There's no issue of human forcing people that if you don't have your PVC, you'll not buy goods in the supermarket. You'll not come to work and do your work in plus TV. There's no need of, the other day, I have my pastor too, that there are some pastors who say, yeah, if you don't get your card reader, they will not allow you to come to church. No, there's no need. This is our moral situation. You just appeal to the sentiment and to the part of the people that, no. You, government belongs to you. That's what democracy is all about. Government is, democracy is a government of the people, by the people. And for the people, so you'll be involved in it. So that you have a sense of belonging whenever they are talking. You'll say, this man I voted for you, you did not do it right. Not that you say no, not then Savi. You leave it for them and then they do the work. What they want. Let me tell you something. What happens in Nigeria is that when all these elected officials, all these political elected officials, we give them a blank check. They have constituency offices, they have offices. They even have their own political offices. How many times do you see pressure groups going to meeting them in their office, going to meet them and discuss with them and say, no, a road has been a mark for construction. How has it gone? I'm sure maybe you covered the gulab nobi within the Redenquistian Church and the site of construction about the road in Fewara. It's all happened. The road was given, a construction was given in 2010. And we are talking of 2021. We are still on that issue. Then definitely because some people in that constituency did not meet their representative. Because it was during democracy, we are talking of 2020, which 2020, which democracy have started then. So they have an elected representative. So what happened that the elected representative did not push and because the people did not talk? Now people begin to talk, they will begin to talk because they have the vote. And they can vote, and once they can vote, they know that yeah, they will be able to talk because their vote will be their voice. And the only way their vote can be their voice is when they register, is when they partake in the election. So when people get to knowing about all those things and let them know that look, this place has been stored in terms of development because you have refused to engage your political leaders to bring in the evidence of democracy, then you can be sure that you have an increase in the number of voters. But that's not the problem, really is about not going to vote. The second leg of it is that, thank God again for the security man that is passing by in the polling unit there. You see that indeed, on election, the people are afraid of their lives. Because thugs are always there to disturb the election. So people look at it as, why would I want to go and vote and kill myself? Let them do it, it's their own way. Maybe they will just go and vote and get the voter's card. And when maybe the government will see my children will not go to school, they will go and flash it to them. That's not it. Democracy is all participatory. It's all inclusive. Including your vote, including the processes that goes about it. Including securing the electoral system, electoral process and the venue for elections and so on. All those things are the second leg. So when this one is off, then we now go to the next one. It's our idea indeed, there's a lot to discuss when it comes to elections in Nigeria because so many things have been tried. So many new methods have been tried. But it seems that we've seen a history of failures, challenges here and there. If you flash your mind back to the year 2019, you know how the INEC was heavily touting technology for elections saying when technology is added to everything. To ensure transparency with the election result and all of that. And then they talked about having servers. And then INEC later denied and said the election result is not transmitted to servers. You had INEC officials come out to say it was transmitted to servers. So there was just a lot of challenges. It made people really doubts the truth and regarding technology in elections in Nigeria. So now that it seems that this is coming up again using card readers. Making sure that we imbibe tech when it comes to elections in Nigeria. What must INEC do to begin to change the mindset of Nigerians? Looking at our past or what we're coming from. To change the mindset of Nigerians to see that imbibing tech is not such a bad thing and how can they better prepare on their part? So come 2023, the elections goes on smooth with the use of technology. For the sake of repeating myself, I repeat myself. I said this a few seconds ago, we want to take it away from INEC. We want the people to drive the process. If the people drive the process, INEC will be on its toes. For a long time, we've allowed INEC to play the drivers, to be on the driver's seat. And at the end of the day, they mess up. This time around, we want to be on the driver's seat. INEC to conduct the election. INEC will be the conductor, just like those of us, I mean, who take more care of these yellow buses all over. You know that there is a driver and there is a conductor. And there's a driver that will drive. The conductor will be telling me. So how can Nigerians drive that process? It's all going to be. It is the people, because for a long time, just as you said, INEC has taken us nowhere. And we want now to drive it to ensure that indeed. And what we do it, just as I said some few seconds ago, it is the people now, people like us, people like the media. You go on a regular basis to interview the REC. You interview the electoral officer at the local government level. We have 774 electoral officers all over the local government in Nigeria. So you go to them, and of course, what are you doing, Mr. Electoral Officer? What are you doing, Mr. Chairman, INEC? What are you doing, Mr. REC? Then you now begin to put them on their toes. The people too, civil societies too, the people themselves will go on. I think we may have lost Mr. Aguade there. Well, the conversation is all about all the next general elections and having a more seamless process, with regards to voter registration and the likes. Mr. Aguade, are you still with us? All right. Mr. Aguade, can you hear us? I can hear you. Oh, okay, all right. Quickly just react to the Electoral Act Amendment Bill, which has passed second reading so far. Is it important that that is signed as quickly as possible, without also assist with the electoral process, including this bill? Obviously, the Electoral Amendment is to cure the various lacuna observed in the past act. And this one is to now ensure that there is seamless election. There is going to be, electorate will be the base, and that's why it is being pushed forward, because we want to use technology to make elections easy and better in this country. Don't forget, it was before they would say they want to take a voting in the ballot paper after elections to a polling station. But instead of polling station, the politicians devised a means of making it wrong. They will now say, no, let's take the ballot paper to a police station, because it's even safer. But you now found out that indeed the ballot paper was never safe in the police station. And of course, they now did not say you take it to the police station, but to a polling center where they were to be counted. So all those taking on about is out. They will now devise means we interacted with INE to the extent that immediately after election now, the election result is put on a piece of paper and it's posted on the world. In that place, people will see the results. But again, we now found out that the politicians, between when they get after that place to when the sheets, the one that they will use in the polling center, police center is now taken there. It has either developed some pregnancy or it has now had an aborted. Okay, sadly, we've lost Miss Aogade again. I think that's why we'll call it a wrap here on this conversation regarding the 2023 elections. Really, we need to make sure that those laws are signs and that everything regarding the tech aspect of electoral management actually is put on the ground so we can have a transparent and seamless elections come 2023. Up next, we'll be talking sports with Wally Scott.