 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome to another edition of the Level Up Hour here on OpenShift TV. I am Chris Short, executive producer of OpenShift TV, host with the most, et cetera, et cetera. I am joined by the illustrious Langdon White. How are you doing, Langdon? It's been a while. Yeah, it has been a while. You know, I'm glad I still warrant the illustrious despite my lack of hair, you know, and beard. I have, so maybe it is really just me and not my Samson, you know, experiential or whatever. Yeah, so we've had a few weeks off. You know, it's kind of hard. We got to figure out, I think we need to rethink how we're doing our interactions with these conferences if we possibly can, you know, not only because I hate having the hiatus, but also because, you know, I think we could like integrate better. On the flip side, I think it's gonna be, it would be like whatever we did, I think it would be a lot of work, especially for you, you know, with all the other shows you're doing. But yeah, yeah, so I got some cool new contact lenses and I got a haircut. It's been like a very fun semi-post-pandemic couple of weeks because I was finally fully vaccinated a couple of weeks ago. Post-pandemic for you. Yes, exactly. For me alone, and actually, I was talking to somebody the other day, it's like, you know, I've been trying to go out for walks, you know, just to get some exercise. And I wear a lot mask a lot less, right? Per like CDC recommendation and all that stuff. But, you know, what, I don't know why they didn't think about this, but I was like, yeah, but I put it on, or I try to put it on when I'm like near people because, you know, kids aren't vaccinated, right? Because, you know, you still have a 5% or whatever it is chance of, you know, getting it and all that stuff. And it's like, I'd rather, you know, I'd rather still shoot for some safety overs. Cautious, yeah. Yeah. No, I've, even though I've gotten both of my shots and have been inoculated supposedly for weeks now, I still follow the mask mandates like it used to be. The other part of it is like, I also haven't had a cold or a flu in like a year. So, I did have a cold last week, but it was so like lightweight compared to any other cold I've ever had that I didn't really notice it until like, what was it, Thursday morning, KubeCon was like midnight and I woke up and I was just like, could not breathe. Oh yeah. What is going on? Right, right. One thing I also point out, I heard a really, and before, you know, it was kind of a teaser for the rest of this episode. And I feel like I've seen it written before, I'm not sure anybody has said it before, but I was watching one of the CNCF recaps of KubeCon and one of the, you know, and they introduce everybody on the panel, you know, before they start talking to one of them said, you know, good time of day. And so I wrote that in the chat because I think it's funny, right? You just kind of don't have to deal with time zones then, you know, or, you know, I wonder if you can just start, you know, do your good time of day, you know, and see if we can work that into the general conversation, you know, make that the norm as we go forward. So then you get into like time of week, you know, seasons maybe. Could fall into play there, right? Right. I actually got, like, I got a speaking to in an early job because I was not answering the phone with the right, you know, good morning versus good afternoon kind of thing. And it's like, I have a hard time figuring out when those lines are supposed to be exactly anyway. Like, you know, like, oh, who knows? I mean, afternoon is pretty obvious, right? After noon, but when does evening start? You know, who knows? Yeah, when does evening start? Right? Five? Well, it was funny. Seven. This organization actually had a policy, which I was really new to the job. And so I didn't know there was a policy. And so, you know, so it was really pretty funny. All right, so I'm going to share the slides because we're supposed to do that at the beginning of the episode. Yeah. We're supposed to do it because I decided at some point long ago that I should do it. But I do like to introduce what we're doing here and, you know, that kind of stuff just in case we have new people. We're also, I've been working on a catchphrase for, you know, don't forget to like and subscribe, you know, because that sounds very trite. But at the same time, you know, we want to make sure people get reminded of the show, you know, and come back, you know, so that they know it's happening. Because I'm sure there's a lot of competition for all of your time, I'm sure. So having, you know, having that little reminder in Twitch or YouTube or whatever is kind of useful, I think that's actually how I see a lot of Twitch shows because I get that reminder from the various channels I subscribe to. So this is the level of our where we talk about why containers are cool and why you might be interested in getting, you know, starting to use containers. And we've run many, many episodes now talking about those kinds of things, you know, from tools containers to application containers and then getting into why you might want orchestration on those containers. And we have a lot more content planned coming up, you know, but today we're gonna talk about Summit and KubeCon. So getting into the show, we have us on Twitter, I'm Langdon with a one and Chris Short is Chris Short. And you with two S's and you can join us on our Discord where we chit chat about, you know, software things and we're happy to see you there, basically. I clearly need another cup of coffee to be clear. So I have a new morning routine on Thursday or Wednesdays. Oh, all right. What is it? So like my morning, I usually wake up in the morning and check all my communication feeds and then send out internally to Red Hatters, you know, the daily email of, hey, this is, you know, what's coming on the channel today. So I feel like I can't schedule those emails like at four p.m. in the afternoon, right? Like I need to actually make sure that someone hasn't messaged me to be like, hey, oh my God, this thing happened in my life and I can't do the show today. So like I wake up early, make a cup of coffee now, drink some coffee, write the email, interact with the kid as he gets up and then start my day like normal. And I've already got like a cup of coffee in the can. So it's pretty nice. That is good. I'm caffeinated this morning, if you can't tell. Well, of my three kids, right? There is only one of them who gets up later than I do, you know, and will sleep till two in the afternoon if allowed essentially. But the other two are like up at the crack-a-down every morning, you know, so it's kind of like if you're up, one of my two sons is awake already. And it's time to go, but yeah, so it's kind of funny. So I wanted to kind of like I said, you know, to check out more information about the show, including past episodes, that kind of stuff. If you want to get more sweet, sweet internet points at red.htslashleveluphour. Today we're talking about Red Hat Summit in KubeCon, well, KubeCon EU to be clear. And then we have a few sets of show notes from the last couple of episodes, one with Chris Wright talking about what we were gonna talk about at Summit in a sense. And then before that was Scott McCarty and UBI. And Scott McCarty is always like so much energy that I'm very, like I'm exhausted for like a week after every time, you know, we have- It's good energy. Oh my God, yeah, it's great. It's just, it's a lot of energy. Yeah. So check it out. I can throw some links into the chat, assuming I can find the right window. I believe in you. Yeah, so let's see, here we go. So here are the show notes. You know, I didn't grab the Discord link, but you have a special- I got it, I got it. Oh, you got that one. It's already printed. All right, cool. I'll talk again for you, just cause. Just cause. Yeah, so, and please, you know, remember file issues on that repo, if you have ideas for shows. I think there's one issue there that I need to go and address that I haven't done yet. So, you know, thank you for that, but I did see it. I just haven't processed it yet. But let's see, what else? But let's go on to Red Hat Zone. Yeah, so. I wanted to ask you. Yeah, yeah. Because there's an interesting dynamic here that happened, right? Me being a CNCF ambassador and kind of very deeply in the Kubernetes and cloud native world, I spent a lot more time focusing on Q County EU, where you spent more time focusing on Summit. So we kind of got the best of both worlds here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, you know, I tend to shy towards kind of what we refer to inside Red Hat. And this is one of the weird things about working at Red Hat is that because all of our stuff is open source, we have this very distinct language difference between a project and a product, right? And so I refer to myself as I tend to be on the product side, right? So I tend to be things like OpenShift and OpenShift serverless or OpenShift service mesh versus the, what we refer to as the project or upstream, which would be like Kubernetes or Istio or, you know, Knative or any of that stuff. Not because there's vast differences or anything, but because that's just kind of what I tend to talk about. So I think that's also, that's part of that striation, right? You know, so at Summit, for example, I had to man a lot more booths, for example, than I did at KubeCon. And so by manning a booth, right, I have to spend more time there by definition. So what I wanted to introduce about Summit, so this, so what they did with Summit, right, is they broke it up into three parts. The first part is basically, you know, for lack of a better term, the first part was is the keynotes kind of of a conference. The second part is like the sessions of a conference. And then the third one is like labs and workshops or whatever you use for that word, you know, but basically where you put, you know, X number of people in a room and then you all work through something together. And so this was the first one. And, you know, basically, because we can do those first two things much more reasonably virtually, whereas the third one is very, very difficult to do virtually, although we have some ideas that we might be doing on the show coming soon, not on this show, but like on the channel, sorry, where maybe we do some kind of workshop like that, live with everybody who signed to, which I think might be fun. So, yeah, for sure. So kind of, so this one was kind of high level, but what I'm trying to get out for you, oh, and what I want to mention too is I took some pre-show notes and I put them in the episodes repo so that if anybody wanted to follow along or get the links, I don't have to put 6,000 links into the chat. But so I tried to capture them all that I could think of in the notes. So yeah, so thank you very much for doing that. Yeah, hopefully it's complete. If you have any trouble with it, file an issue, let us know now in the chat, but obviously our QA team on the show, they're still recovering from Summit and KubeCon, much like our writers. Yeah. And that's for any longtime viewers of the show from my Christmas jokes. But there were some detailed bits and so that's kind of what I wanted to follow along with. The other thing I wanted to kind of point out, you know, or the first thing I wanted to kind of point out was there was a lot of content around and there has been kind of a lot in the trade press in general of at the edge. And it's gotten really slangy and gimmicky and all this other stuff. But as I'm sure many of you know, right, one of the current major challenges in the software and hardware industry is how can we get kind of these simple devices to participate in more sophisticated things, right? So that might be a Nest thermostat, which I think is the one everyone's really familiar with. I think Kube. Yeah, but like I have a Google Home, you have an Alexa, whatever product, you know, hardware, you know, and so we see a lot of this in kind of the home automation space, you know, which has been trying to take off for about 20 years or so. But in the business space or in the enterprise space, what Edge is starting to be is like, how do they do things like, you know, point of sale systems in a retail shop, right? How do those work back with, you know, the home, you know, server engines or whatever? And then you also see it a lot in Telco, which is a big place for where the Edge phrasing comes from. Really is, yeah. Yeah. Even though I think it's a much more universal problem, they're the ones I think who have the money and the drive and the sophistication to really be pushing it forward. You know, it's like a lot of times in software, financial services tends to drive new tech, right? But in this particular case, Telco seem to be driving a lot of that new tech. And so that's what, and what you see there, right, is, you know, things like cell phone towers, right? Where, you know, Red Hat, we have actually a long history with working those, with those kinds of organizations. RHEL is a great platform to put in a cell phone tower, right? But we want to go all containers all the time for so much of our software. Telcos are trying to figure out how do I make containers that do, you know, Telco-y things? I don't even know what exactly, but how do we run that on a tower, right? Right. CNVs, NFVs, network functions, and... Exactly. ...container functions. There's so many acronyms in the Telco space that are formed to me, right? Yeah. It's way more, if you've never had any experience with it, it's way more complex than you might think it is, you know? But that's where like software defined networking really shows its, you know, shows its value, right? But long story short, there was a good talk in, you know, a little keynotey, but called Hardware Accelerators, the Future of Data Centers at the Edge. And I thought that was really interesting, you know, high enough level that I could still parse it, but interesting to see what's kind of driving it forward. And that was with Chris Wright, you know, who was on the show just before Summit, talking about kind of these control plane ideas with Kubernetes that he, you know, he and Kelsey Hightower were talking about, and then we'll get to it, but now Clayton Coleman is also talking about it. And then it actually came up in one of the recaps for KubeCon actually later, which I thought was pretty interesting. So, yeah, all of that said, the Edge stuff don't think it's not for you because it seems like it's just about talk, because there's a lot of relevance to I think almost any kind of software industry person, you know, whether you're an administrator, whether you're a programmer, you know, in some ways we're pushing back to the days of having really constrained technical environments, right? These days, you know, you can do your PHP website and you can just leak as much RAM and disk as you want because, you know, you essentially have unlimited. When you talk about these things at the Edge, it's much more compact, it's much more, you know, very much a tight, compact little thing, like a tiny modem with like maybe a risk-v card or next to it, right? Like that might be it. Right, so yeah, so check it out. And all right, so moving on to the next thing, and this is gonna be a little like, you know, kind of this whole episode, I think it's gonna be a little bit jumpy, right? Because we're gonna talk about, you know, each talk in a sense. So the next thing I wanna talk about was, especially for all you admins out there, there is a project kind of that Red Hat has been, you know, trying to, like they've put a bunch of people on it, they're trying to get it to kind of take off more or whatever, but this idea of operate first, okay? And even internally to Red Hat, we had this concept for actually going on quite a few years now called Customer One. And I would say this is not dissimilar from other organizations do this as well, but basically if you produce software, your first customer is your IT organization. So if your IT, you know, sometimes it doesn't map, right? You know, you just don't, you know, the software you make is, you know, constant contact and you do bulk emailing. It's a little harder for your IT to use much very often, right, but wherever possible, if your first customer is your own IT department, you can get significantly more information about how your product is working in production, right? So this operate first idea, there was a talk called operate first in forming community development with operational insight. So this idea is like, how can we kind of spread that out into open source kind of in general? How can we, you know, how can we like drive communities around this concept? And so I think that's really interesting, especially if you're an admin, you know, as something you might want to get involved in because, you know, like as an admin or a developer, right? Like you know that feedback is so desperately important for any of the software or the environments you run in. And so that's really what they're trying to get to. It's like, how do we, you know, how do we operate first, right? You know, so check out that talk. Hopefully that will be cool. And oh, I got a little piece of information here in chat, you know, congratulations to Rapsy, Alien, Reeves long time watcher. Soon to be Red Hatter. Congrats, buddy. That's pretty awesome, you know. Thanks for even, you know, applying a little and watching. Good Lord, that's awesome. Yeah, we're always excited to see new people join. And we've got tons of job openings right now across the board. Yeah, actually some, I think directly related to operate first, in fact. Last I knew they had some openings there. They're gonna be doing some really neat stuff with like AI ops. I know that's part of the plans going forward. You know, so how do we, you know, operationalize things more efficiently than we do already, which is already kind of ridiculous, right? I mean, I remember, you know, you would operate as a, you know, like an admin, you might operate 10 machines, maybe 20 machines, but then it really started to get pretty unruly. But as we've progressed in our automation right now, it's hundreds, you know, sometimes thousands, you know, depending on how far along your automation has come. So we can do better, basically, is the idea. Oh, so specifically an open shift too. Hey, look at that. I know, right, like. And typical for- Causation or correlation? Right, right. We figure it out here, yeah. Anyways. But I do like the, you know, typical for starting a new job anywhere personally. I think I'm going to be doing something like this, but I'm not really sure, so totally understand. Rapskilly has to let me know if I'm still in NHO because there used to be a video clip of me as part of the NHO, no, sorry, new hire orientation. Couple of days you get when you start. Yeah. I mean, I don't recall seeing you during my new hire orientation, but that was three years ago and I didn't know you, so. Right, right, right. Yeah, it's a very short clip. It's basically, it's taken in the back of my house. So, but, you know, take a look. I can't remember what the status of my hair at that time was. I'm sure it was much more illustrious. Perhaps, perhaps. So, all right, so moving on. So the next topic. So what I wanted to mention, so if you haven't seen Matt Hicks speak, he's, I think, a really good speaker to see if you like an executive level talk that has a lot of technical depth to it, for lack of a better term. I think maybe it's because he, excuse me, he spent a fair amount of time in the trenches as it were and he has a good talk at Summit about it's called using open hybrid cloud to take full advantage of cloud computing. And it's, I don't know. I just, I find him a very down-to-earth speaker is in my notes, you know, and if it's, even if it's an executive kind of keynote, you know, he's an executive, but, you know, you should definitely check him out. I know he's been on in the clouds, right? What was the name? Matt Hicks, Matt Hicks, yeah. Was on the December episode of In the Cloud? Okay, yeah, so that might also be good to go back and watch. Yeah, like I said, he's just, I think he's a good speaker. I've had a number of meetings with him, you know, over the years about various different things. I remember a very funny conversation about, you know, when we, when Red Hat was shifting to like agile methods and me saying something along the lines of, you know, why do I always have to be that guy and ask the question that everybody else wants the answer to, but is afraid to ask. So, yeah, so I've had some great conversations with him over the years. Like I said, I like the way he speaks, so check it out. And then, and his In the Clouds episode was great too, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. I think I saw, very reasonable. Please sit. Yeah, he, like I said, you know, I've known him for a bunch of years, so you know, I'm mixing up conversations with him, right, in a sense. But yeah, so, okay, so moving on, the other one that, you know, the person that tends to do our big splashy demo keynotes, right, is a guy named Burst Sutter. And I think he does a great job. And so he had two of those kind of big shows. I think the second one, I'm trying to remember which one was which, but I think the second one is the one with a lot more like tech demo. And the first one is a lot more like interviews and a little bit of demo. So the first one was augmenting, automating and advancing workflows in redhead technologies. And the second one was building cloud native applications with artificial intelligence and machine learning. Easy for me to say. And so his are great fun to watch. They're even more fun in person, but he does a good job in this one, although it's a little late now of like interacting with the audience. They actually set up a battleship game and everybody in the audience can play and they had a leaderboard and all this stuff. And, you know, it's a lot of fun. But, you know, I'm really impressed, right? Because literally about, you know, this year is weird, but let's just say in a normal year, right? Red Hat Summit would have come and gone. It would have been like in April. Call it somewhere towards the end of May is when he starts working on the demo for the following summit. Like it takes a lot of work. You know, you don't see it in that, you know, hour, hour and a half demo, but there is a lot of energy that got put into, you know, putting that keynote together and just the ability to predict the future about what software we're actually going to ship, right? I think is also pretty amazing. Sorry, did we have more questions in the chat? No, not necessarily. I mean, we're trying to help a student figure out, you know, what roles to apply for, what skills they should pick up, kind of that, which kind of dovetails nicely into a CNCF announcement if you want to switch to KubeCon or whatever. I have one more thing. Or two things, and then let's switch. So, sorry, I kind of lost you. No, I have one more thing. So I mentioned, yeah, the artificial intelligence machine learning thing with, or like I said, I can't remember which one was which. So, you know, check them out, you know, and just, you know, one of, like I said, one of them has a lot more demo than the other. Then lastly, you know, if you like this show and, you know, we do a lot of interviews on this show, one thing that they captured, which I was honestly a little surprised by, is they do at Summit, they, is the Kube a thing like outside of Summit? Or is it a single force? No, it's a whole organization, and they've got like a really great CMS and everything that they built. So yeah. Okay, yeah, so like it's one of those things where I'm like, it's one of those things I want to go like, actually check out and kind of don't get to, and then forget about it and then come back, you know, whatever. But if you go to the Summit, you know, on demand website thing or whatever, there's a way to search for all the, you can kind of see all the sessions. But if you go there and then you check the session type of what they called featured sessions, at least half of those are the Kube shows, or shows, episodes, you know, bits, and their interviews. And some of them are with really good, like interesting thing that people to hear from. So, you know, one of them, you know, a few of them I mentioned, right, are Shesh and Tracy. So Shesh is the person who runs the business unit or part of and Tracy is the one who runs the engineering team for OpenShift. And then Chris Wright is on there, Clayton Coleman is there, both of whom you should know. One to also take a look at, although I didn't actually watch it, so I'm not sure what it's about, but going by who it is, Kamal Shah and Kirsten Newcomer, it should be about security. It should be amazing. And it should be good. Kirsten's on the show or on the channel, a fair amount. Yeah, no, anytime we have like a security test. I couldn't remember if she actually had her own show or not. She did not have her own show, but she's been on five or six times at least, right? Like if we did a show with Kirsten, like it would be amazing, but she's so busy helping customers. It's hard to like get on with anything. Details, yeah. So definitely worth checking out if you don't recognize their name. It'll, you know, because the only problem I had with those sessions is I didn't have, I didn't think they have very parsable descriptions, like, you know, that I want to go watch this one. But then Matt Hicks is also there. And then there's one with some people who are in the AI group, which you might also like, but also may not recognize their name, is Perul Singh, Luke Hins, I think is how you say his last name, and Steven Watt. Steven Watt is the head of... That's awesome, yeah. Yeah, he's, he might be the one leaving operate first as well, but he's in the, he's in our kind of AI, COE, you know, our community of excellence. He might even run it. And so that's a good one about kind of AI and machine learning. So check that out. All right, so, sorry. So that's, so that's my kind of recap of Red Hat Summit. Is there anything else that you wanted to add besides what we kind of talked about so far? No, I think you've covered it very well as far as like some highlights to definitely go check out immediately. So yeah, I'm good. Cool. And yeah, I spent a lot of time answering questions in chat. You know, I will say, you know, we're going to mention a little bit of the conference platforms. I was a little, they still haven't gotten the chat right. They still haven't gotten the hallway track part right. And I'm not sure that KubeCon did either. I think KubeCon's mechanism is closer, but it's still, I still think it's problematic, but we can talk about KubeCon in a minute, but the challenge we had with the chat, so what they did was they set it up so that it was all almost like one-on-one. So instead of, Yeah, it was not a very like native experience. Well, right. And I think one of the pluses of walking up to a booth is hearing what other people ask, right? Is because you want to know what people are thinking about, what they're worried about, both as a person who is going to a conference that I'm not a part of the company and as part of the company. I want to know what everybody else is saying. And so they set it up so that it was very one-on-one, which I will say I was not the biggest fan of, except for some of the rooms, some of the community rooms, they had it set up so that it was more just kind of open, but I don't know. So they still haven't figured out whatever you call it, the hallway track, really, or the booths expo hall kind of feel in my opinion. So, all right. So now let's move on to Q-Con. So we have a couple of students in the audience. So I wanted to make this announcement first since the meeting just kicked off two minutes ago. CNCF is putting together a big push for students, right? Getting students involved in the ecosystem, getting students educated about what containers are, what Kubernetes is, how to take advantage of it in your career, that whole nine yards. Kunal, Dan Popp, who showed up here for a little bit, they're all involved in this. And these are really great people that I've listened to and worked with in the community. So like them running this effort is huge. I just dropped the link in chat. They have a two hour meeting starting now basically. So just show up, see what you can learn, see how you can get involved. So really gonna be a great resource for new folks coming into the cloud native ecosystem. So one of the things I was gonna pitch actually about the things to do in going back to the recap of Q-Con is the CNCF on their Twitch channel did daily recaps of the conference. They were really good. And one of them, maybe the Friday one, talks specifically about this. So there is a discussion. There's a student, like someone who's, I think he says he's a junior in college. And there's a student on there and, you know, like, but they specifically talk about this initiative. So you should go check that out if you want a lot, like if you wanna kind of see flesh out and don't forget you should go check it out. You should go participate even if you're not a student because I'm sure they want mentors, right? I'm sure they want help bringing more, you know, students in, you know, one of my big, you know, I think Chris and I both share this is that, you know, it's really important to us to try to serve, you know, as much kind of the underrepresented community in our software as we possibly can get, right? We need lots more engineers. And so- From all walks of life. Right. Well, and, you know, it's like one of these stupid things, you know, it's like I remember Google Maps, right? Being really problematic for a use in walking in Boston. Oh, yeah. Because California is a car culture. And so when in kind of first few years, I wanna say early Google Maps, but still like not for like a minute, it just didn't do a good job of dealing with a place like Boston because it was developed in Silicon Valley, right? And I can tell you, I have gotten lost in Toronto as a result of that. Yeah. Right. And so people talk about underrepresented, right? As being, you know, things about like race and that kind of stuff, but it's really the whole gamut of we need different perspectives when we do software because otherwise we make stupid mistakes based on our own knowledge of things, right? And, you know, so we need as much kind of, you know, representation as we can get. So you see a lot of student initiatives, right? Programs like Outreachy or the Google Summer of Code or, you know, and this one from CNCF. So, you know, and like I said, it helps all of us if you go participate as a student or you go participate as a mentor or whatever they happen to call it in that particular organization. So check it out. Yeah. And like I said, more color on that is in that, in one of those CNCF recaps. I can't remember which one though. So cool. All right. What else do you want to talk about? I mean, as far as Red Hat goes, we did, well, we sponsored and I helped emcee the GitOps.com, the day zero event GitOps.com. And it was just awesome, right? Like statistically awesome. And content awesome. So like I spent the day kind of running the behind the scenes, you know, doing like I do here producing kind of deal, but like watching the content, it was just like, like think of it as small mind explosions throughout the entire thing, right? And it was only like five or six hours long, if that. So it was just like, wow, people are doing it like that. Oh, wow. Okay. You know, like just holy smokes. I can't believe I'm, you know, standing up VMs and, you know, doing anything anymore and not in automated fashion, right? Like, yeah, I watched some of it too. I mean, I think that was, that's one of those things where multiple perspectives helps too. What I really liked about that, which I didn't realize at first when I first heard about GitOps.com is that we weren't the only driver, right? WeWorks was also a big driver. And so I think- We've worked to coin the phrase GitOps. Oh, it's, yeah. Oh, really? Oh, I don't think I knew where it came from. But, you know, like that, I think we saw, you know, kind of a wider range of perspectives there. Yeah, I quite liked it as well. You know, and in the, in the episodes thing that I linked to earlier, there's a link to the whole playlist. So you can go back and watch the whole thing. Yeah. Obviously, you can try and interact, but it will be harder, you know, because the people are all on video. They're unlikely to respond. You never know. Yeah, yeah. Anything's possible. I mean, it's on the working, the GitOps working groups page. So you can get to that whole playlist here. I'll drop it in chat. Yeah. And just literally run through all those talks. And it was just awesome. Even the lightning talks were great, right? Like it's really unusual to like get a few nuggets out of every like five minute talk. And we did. It was awesome. Right, right. So yeah. And we also threw it together like within like four weeks, which is another monumental achievement. Right? Like we realized we needed to do it. We realized that we had the space to do it. And the second we were like, yeah, we're making this happen. It was just off and running. And a huge thank you to Aubrey Mullick, Christian Hernandez, Scott Rigby, Cornelia Davis, Sonia from Weaveworks. I can't say her last name. So I'm not going to try the, you know, that whole team that put it all together, right? Like I need to send a lot of thank you notes because they made the job pretty easy for me, given that it was like single track, just, you know, keep everything fresh and new and ongoing kind of deal and jump in when you have to. It was really, really like a well done. What other ops am I blanking on this morning? That chat ops is kind of like behind the scenes. I really like the AI ops and ML ops. Yeah, the takeoff. So one thing I wanted to sidebar for two seconds, Rebel, assuming that's your first name versus a title. If you could go file an issue at the GitHub repo. I got you. With the Jenkins question that you have or whatever, maybe we can cover that in a future episode. You know, we kind of slipped things into that queue. Yeah, Narendra Dev, DevSecOps, yes. All the DevSecOps. There's a show coming up or is that? I think I was going to do a show on DevSecOps. There's a whole program around it now. Right. Yeah, but I was thinking about doing it because I was trying to get some more security kind of stuff in general into the show list or the show plan, but it's not for a bit yet. Like, so maybe like end of June or something. I can't remember where it is on the list, but I do have some DevSecOps. I was going to try to do like an interview with somebody who knows what they're talking about there. You know, I often say or joke around about, you know, I come from a programmer background. So, you know, security, meh. But I am totally kidding. You would want to keep me up at night. I'm totally kidding. However, my sophistication in that space is relatively low. You know, it's more like I find experts and I do what they tell me rather than try to learn an entire new, you know, kind of world in addition. It's just like I do with UX, right? It's like, I'm not going to go and learn everything there is to learn about user experience. I know a lot of people who are really good at it. So I do what they tell me, you know? Exactly. So I do very much the same with security. So I was hoping we could get an interview or two or maybe do something that's playful in the DevSecOps space. So keep an eye out for that. Like I said, I can't remember exactly when I was thinking about doing it, but I know it was like June, July timeframe. So, you know, if you really want to see it though, please make sure you file an issue as well. You know, that way it'll remind me to make sure it's, you know, I'll push it up the list, right? All right, so the other thing. What else about get up, or cubecom? Yeah, so. We did over shift commas gathering on Tuesday. That was great. And then we dove straight into, we did nine office hours throughout the event for community projects and, you know, things that are going on. We talked about red hat certifications, which actually answered a lot of questions that people had about the search themselves. Oh, that's good. And how they're structured and everything else. Like that episode I'm actually going to use as like, hey, you want to know more about certifications? Here you go. Right. So yeah, we did a bunch of office hours and trying to find the playlist as I talk, which is always difficult. I think I put it in the dot. Yes, because I shared it with you yesterday. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, project office hours on OpenShift TV. I called it. So yeah, I did one. But then the conference itself, right? Like I wrote this in my newsletter this week that. Wait, hold on. I want to talk about the other office hour real quick. So OK, we did the OpenShift service mesh office hour. Yes, what we did was instead of doing an office hour from like a project perspective, we did a like, what do you care about with an enterprise? Like, like, why do you care about the product? Right, versus the project. And I thought that was really we got a lot of good traction on that. And a lot of people were really interested in that conversation. So I definitely recommend going and checking that out if you have any ideas around implementing a service mesh or you have a service mesh, because hopefully we answer your questions about why you, you know, why you might want to use OpenShift service mesh versus using like Istio, you know, or some other open source, you know, version of the product. And yeah, so sorry, I just wanted to mention that because I, like I said, I thought it went way better than than I think any of us were expecting. Yeah, there were a couple of those office hours where it was like over 100 chat messages and I believe yours was one of them. Yeah, yeah, where it was like, wow, there's so many questions. Holy smokes, I can barely keep up, right? Right. Yes, Josh Burkus and I were both very busy a few episodes and we were just like, the questions were coming at us too fast. Right. Please serialize your questions. Yeah, no, no, I mean, and, you know, it when it comes to service mesh and then what was the other one we talked about, I think it was the the serverless one. Yeah, both of those, right? Like we need to talk about that more on the channel and general is what those two office hours showed me. So it was very good learning experience for me. Right. Being the producer of this channel. So I greatly appreciate everybody that was involved in that. Well, my takeaway from the service mesh one is that I'm going to have the same the two product managers that we had on this on that office hours. I'm going to have them on the show sometime relatively soon and do, you know, kind of go through some of that again. You know, probably different questions, different answers, but clearly there's a, you know, quote unquote, pent up desire to learn more about service mesh. It sounds like I should do the same serverless, both of which I'm pretty heavily involved in in Red Hat Lamps. So I'm very interested in both of those things. Yeah, like many things that we name at Red Hat, it is just called OpenShift Service Mesh. So yeah, I think we took a page from Microsoft back in the day. You know, like who who else but Microsoft names their database server SQL? Right, you know, just SQL. Right. It's just kind of amusing. So all right, moving on. All right. So what were you going to talk about with KubeCon? There were some. So yeah, in my newsletter this week, I wrote a couple of paragraphs. The two intro paragraphs were about KubeCon. And you mentioned the hallway tracks specifically. And that's why I wanted to point this out was because KubeCon is very hybrid in the way they do events, right? There's the event platform where things happen, but they also integrate the CNCF Slack, which gives the community the opportunity to do whatever it wants. So there was a hallway track Slack channel. And from that, people were dropping in like their open Zoom invites and everybody could join a Zoom call and just talk to each other and interact. So I made sure I stepped into a few of those. I talked to a lot of people just about, you know, life in cloud native land and, you know, how I got my start and, you know, just things I've gone through, getting to where I am today. And that I found incredibly like cool because I talked to people I'd never talked before in community, right? Like, I knew they were out there. I've seen, you know, their commits or whatever, but I've never seen a face or talked to them before other than like on GitHub. So it was kind of nice. But you had to kind of know that, right? Like, this is this is my problem with KubeCon's chat, hallway thing, whatever. There's like a billion different rooms. Yeah. And and I think that's still like the like, I understand trying to focus on the conversation or nowhere to go to have a conversation or whatever. But I think with the digital, virtual, whatever world, you can crash those things together better and still people can thread out, right? Particularly in something like Slack, right? You can, you know, if if you kind of up front, make sure everyone's kind of following the same etiquette, you can have a crazy number of conversations in one chat room, right? So I my challenge with KubeCon, it kind of goes, it's it's I, like I said, I think it was better than Red Hat Summits one, which was just point to point. But it's still too tight or separated. Yeah. Yeah, too strided, essentially, where I think they could get away with, you know, six rooms or, you know, something like that. Well, here's the thing, right? Like they're trying and this could change when we do the hybrid event in October. So KubeCon in a just let everybody know the CFP is open. The it's supposed to be in Los Angeles, October 12th through 14th. I intend to be there unless Red Hat tells me not to. But it is CNCF. I've already talked to their events team. We're already talking about the contributor summit at CNCF. Or KubeCon in a and they're like, we are expecting this to be a fully hybrid event. Right. So there will be some people on stage in theory, physically in LA. And there'll be a lot of people watching, we feel, because the world is still going through a pandemic. So that I think is going to be interesting. And that I feel like will be a foreseeing function. Yeah. Thank you, Lincoln, a foreseeing function for kind of bringing the bridging the knowledge gap between like all these vendor chat rooms where people are supposed to go to talk to vendors like the Red Hat chat room is pretty busy, right? But other vendor chat rooms were not. So like when every vendor has a chat room that's sponsoring KubeCon, it gets very diluted very quickly. So it's you know, every vendor needs a place to have these free form conversations outside of the booth sometimes. But I feel like with meeting play, the platform they used like that might not have been as necessary this time. And it was just kind of like, oh, we've always done this in the past. We might as well do it again, kind of thing. Right. Right. So I'm hopeful that KubeCon in a like we can actually focus more on interaction as opposed to like just getting people to the right place. You know, hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Although I will say it was funny. You know, for us, you know, yes, you had a lot to do with it and everything else. But Christian was really kind of the lead almost for Get Ups Con, right? It's, you know, he's very into the Get Ups stuff. He has his own show about it, right? You know, and I thought this, I think, was his first conference that he was running. And his quote afterwards is like, do we just put these things on so people can come and complain about how we put it on? So I feel a little bit like we're doing that. Having run a bunch of conferences, I totally understand that experience. You know, so I will shout out, right? Like both Red Hat Summit and KubeCon, like to the organizers, I know it is a ridiculous amount of work. It is a lot. You're never going to get any everything right period. You know, so please, please take all our commentary as constructive feedback. It is not meant as, you know, like knocking the vast amount of work that's done even at the show and kind of in person, right? Like I both jokingly and seriously. So I wear a lot of vans, the brand, you know, the shoe brand. And at the first DevConf US, I blew out the side of a pair of vans from walking around so much. Then at the second DevConf US, I did the same thing with a different pair of vans. So it's kind of hilarious, but you got to have good walking shoes for KubeCon. That's what I've learned over the years, especially as an organizer, because you're putting out fires the entire time, not federal fires, hopefully. Although I have been, I have was that organized like a relief for the conference where there was literally a fire. But the roof of KubeCon and a San Diego leaked. Oh, that's right. Yeah. So, you know, like I said, all all, you know, criticism aside, please. It is, you know, shout out to anybody who's ever organized a conference. It is so much work and we we recognize that. And even even even a bad conference is still awesome, right? You know, so so please do keep that in mind. And we're just commenting as, you know, future improvements. All right, what else do we talk about with KubeCon? I mean, just the inordinate amount of great talks, right? I think the press kind of deadpan KubeCon because they weren't necessarily going to the talks. They were only going to the keynotes. OK, so like the talk, well, first of all, the amazing capture the flag episode from cloud native TV that they did as part of like KubeCon. Awesome, right? Like absolutely awesome, right? Like breaking down containers, figuring out how to get into the host and figuring out what is actually going on. And this thing was like a thread of idea of some process is doing something on the network, right? Like and and just diving into that to see this one container with this like mile long bash command, right? Inns and NCP80L, you know, it's like, oh, no. Like, there it is. Yeah, yeah, that was a that was a neat concept. Like and I and I believe they also do that more often. Right. It's not. It wasn't just a KubeCon thing. Yeah, the people involved who I can't think of the name. Ian Coldwater. Yeah. And yeah, I think it was maybe it's Duffy. Some like they do this regularly. And yeah, but this one was at least self-described. They said this one was ridiculously hard compared to normal. And they figured it out. Yeah, which is like they needed a hint at the very end because they were literally running out of time because right. There was a time constraint because it was only an hour long block, but yeah, it was really, really informative. I'm digging it up now, folks. So yeah, I don't have a link to that one. So apologies. That's my fault. I probably should have done that yesterday when we were talking about it. Well, yeah, we can, we can, you know, we can always, you know, we should pull it in. I have to, in fact, yeah. One thing I wanted to mention was one of the things that I think is very difficult to wrap your head around when you're going from, you know, kind of a traditional software deployment kind of model to something that is event driven or cloud native or whatever is how do you run repetitive tasks because they're not this like item potent, you know, I need this service to be available all the time kind of thing. So like, like everything you read about, you know, Kubernetes or OpenShift or even to some extent containers, it's all about keeping these services running all the time. Right. One thing is sometimes I think difficult for people to wrap their head around is like, OK, but I need to run a batch job. How do I do that? Right. So there's a talk about CronJob API, which is this newish thing. Excuse me to do exactly that. Yeah. I think they might have just gone like V1, like they just hit some milestone. I can't remember it was when either beta or V1. Because it was an alpha for a long time. Yeah. And I think that's why it was kind of getting some traction. So I just wanted to point out, go check out that talk, maybe go check out that project, because I know it's one of those questions that as a, you know, more traditional software development environment, it can be a challenge to kind of wrap your head around. How do you do that sort of thing without breaking all of the conventions that you're supposed to be following? So, yeah, I wanted to mention that. I also wanted to mention that Helm is apparently the new hotness. It's been the hotness, but once they got rid of pillar, it became really hot. Yeah. Right. So there's a ton of talks at home. You should definitely go check those out. One thing that I looked at home and got very confused about. So I'll just kind of mention it quickly. Although I do think we have an episode planned about Helm itself is I thought it was like an end to end. I, you know, basically a GitOps-y type solution, but it's not. It's actually a packaging mechanism for, you know, a binary application. And when I say binary application these days, when we're talking about cloud native, that may be 67 different pieces of software, right? Because it's all the different services and how they come together to deploy an application. So when we say, when I'm saying application here, I mean like WordPress, which includes a database and a web server and all that other jazz, right? It's not just the PHP component. So Helm is a packaging mechanism for, you know, kind of cloud native applications. So at least for me going into it, that would be a very helpful piece of data because I went into it thinking it was a not CI, but CI-esque or GitOps-esque where, you know, I could basically push code and out would come application. That's not really what it is. And I think at least for me, instructions, talks, all that stuff make a lot more sense now that I finally figured that out. So yeah, so passing on that thing for you as well. So that I already mentioned the recaps on CNCF TV, which I thought were great. I kind of wish we had done it for Summit, you know, and yeah, maybe. Well, we had a specific Summit's a little weirder, right? So it's like it has a different approach to the problem of communicating with others, right? So maybe, I don't know, but I thought it was cool and they're really good. I think they were also less constrained for time. So so I think they they had a lot more latitude to kind of walk all over the place, which was cool. Then we also mentioned the office hours already. And those I thought were really interesting, better than we normally do for those, I thought, because we usually do at most conferences, most in person conferences. If we if Red Hat has a booth, we do office hours at those booths. In a similar concept, these, you know, in my opinion, we should keep doing them virtually, even at in person conferences, like they were really accessible. It'd be really cool if we could actually incorporate the virtual component of an office hour with like an in person, you know, throw it up on a screen somewhere and there's a bunch of people crowded around for the office hour, but then there's also a bunch of people coming in virtually. Really, really good, you know, so so definitely recommend those as well. And I think that was all I had. Is there anything else that I'm forgetting? Um, let's see. Let me drop the disco. Oh, I did. I did forget there was if you want to know more about the edge stuff. There was also a Kubernetes on edge day. Yeah. So go check that out. That is, you know, it is a little bit more focused when you talk about edge about, you know, how do you orchestrate containers in, you know, on edge devices? But still a good little one day kind of conferencey thing. The link to it is in the GitHub repo. So, you know, go check it out if you if you want to. I think I think I checked all of this to make sure you could actually still watch it on demand. You can watch it on demand in the platform, but all the videos are dropping this Friday on YouTube. So right. OK. So, so yeah, so that's the thing is that you you might still have to register like Red Hat Summit, you definitely have to register and then you can go and watch any of these things that are at least everything that I could find. You know, everything I mentioned, I checked to make sure you could still watch it. CubeCon similar. I don't know about the CubeCon fee, but I do know you have to register. I'm always obviously already registered, so I don't know about what happens if you register at this point. So I don't know either. Yeah, but the GitHubCon is already on YouTube. The Kubernetes on edge day, I think is also there, but I didn't actually check that one in detail. And then the off-sours are definitely there. The CNCF TV stuff. Now, keeping in mind if it's CNCF TV, the recaps, unless they capture those to YouTube somewhere, those are going to disappear off a page. They do. They're they're archiving things in the background. OK, I think the affiliate program works on Twitch, like you have to air it exclusively on Twitch, and then you can offload it to YouTube after the fact, which is why we're not affiliates of YouTube, right? Or Twitch, because we can't do multi streaming without it, you know, so right or with it because it locks you into this contractual obligation to be on Twitch exclusively, which is not what we're all about here. Right, exactly. Yeah, so the first two links in the GitHub page there are the like main links to Summit and KubeCon, which is where you go like register if you haven't already. And, you know, hopefully hopefully you'll be able to figure it out, right? It'll it'll let you into it. You know, I apologize, but I did not want to open private browser, re-register all those kinds of things to try to figure out if it no worries if it worked for everybody. But any which way, KubeCon definitely will be available on YouTube very, very soon. Summit tends to stay in their little thing. But I know the content is at least planned to be available for a year. So yeah, so it's just you can't get to it from YouTube. Red Hat Summit was free. So even if you have to register, I know you don't have to pay, so go check it out. One last thing, if you have time, I did a talk at KubeCon and believe it or not, folks, it was my first talk at KubeCon ever. And the reason why it was because it was a panel. I'm usually too busy at KubeCon doing other things. I don't have time to do a talk. So this was actually the first opportunity because it was virtual and because I was doing so many things and it was time shifted into the EU. Time zones, I was able to do a talk and it was about non code contributions to Kubernetes, right? Like that was your talk. Well, I didn't even know two kind of talks, right? OK, there was a talk early in the conference about non code contribution. And then there was a talk about the upstream marketing team, which is what I'm working on right now, which is essentially just getting stories out there to people. And when we say stories, what you do every day is a story, right? Like an experience is a story, a failure is a story that you can tell, right? And in that kind of we need more people like that that can write, that can help us with social media, right? Like our entire social media process is driven by GitHub and GitHub actions. Like we don't use like Tweetdeck unless we have to kind of thing, right? Like it's it's very much GitHub driven, but that was all done by this upstream marketing group, which falls under the communication community part. So like we talked about that myself, Kazem Fields from Google, Piyush from Digital Ocean and Matt Broberg also from Red Hat. So yeah, check out that talk. Just search for my name on the. I'm taking a link right now find it. Yeah, I had a link to it and I think I closed it the other day. I closed all my stuff. I hate that. Yeah. Well, so let's see. Yeah, talk about points before we do that. One thing I did want to say, I thought you were going slightly differently with that was your first talk. KubeCon NA, please definitely submit a talk. It will be a challenge to get it accepted, right? There are a lot of talks submitted for KubeCon NA in particular. EU tends to be a little bit easier to give a talk at. However, the conference I run, DevConf US, is a relatively small conference, but its mission in life is to be appealing for to be a place for new speakers. So if you are a new speaker and you haven't done a lot of talks before, take a look at DevConf US. Our CFP is also open. So go check that out if you are interested. And, you know, and that might be a place to do your first talk and maybe KubeCon NA is for next year, you know, and just kind of like, but do recognize, you know, the bigger conferences, it's very hard to get a talk in. Like we like there's a few people. That had quabbles with the selection process. Our selection process is very open, right? Like we wrote a blog post about it. In 2018, and we still have to refer to it to people because they're like, I'm so mad, my KubeCon talk didn't get accepted. It's like there's thousands of entries, right? And the maintainer track is like. It has certain limitations, right? Like we can't have 25 talks from API machinery, right? Like we can only do so many, you know, bits and pieces of each SIG in the greater cloud native community. So it's well, it's it. I mean, it's a challenge, right? Running a conference, right? I mean, it's like you both you want to give opportunities to new speakers. You want to make sure the conference is appealing to attendees and informative, right? You want to, you know, you want to make sure that, you know, whatever the new, you know, whatever the organization that's kind of sponsoring the conference is kind of putting at the forefront the things that it thinks are important, you know, like you have all these competing interests and when you have, you know, a thousand, 10,000, whatever high quality, you know, things to choose amongst, you know, it's just like stuff is going to fall out. You just don't have unlimited time as well as, you know, and you may not even need all those needs perfectly. You're doing your best. You know, there's a lot of competing interests in trying to build a good conference agenda or conference program. So don't take it personally. Try, try again. It's not a personal thing. It's not something wrong with your personality or your writing style or whatever. It's the fact that we're inundated. Well, and also, I mean, part of it is also having a reputation helps. So if you go and give a bunch of talks at things like DevConf US or, you know, and then kind of you, it's just like any other career, right? Is like you need to start at the kind of entry or level and then grow from there. You know, it's even down to stupid stuff. Like, you know, does your abstract explain what you want to talk about well? Right? Like, what is the user going to do? What is the person sitting in the audience going to get out of your talk? Right. So even if you're a brilliant speaker, if you don't if you don't write abstracts, well, you're still in trouble, right? So, you know, there's a lot of things to learn. And one of the things that we've been trying to do, like I said, as part of this conference and I know other conferences are doing this more now, too, is guidance, right? It's like help you write abstracts. You know, we actually do speaker coaching. So to a bunch of conferences, but we even do attendee coaching. So if you've never been to a conference before, what is the hallway track? How do you how do you execute there? What, you know, why do you go to the expo hall? Aside from getting free t-shirts, you know, et cetera. So. Yeah, exactly. So the OK, so let's move on to points. No, nothing is stupid. Everything is a doubt for beginners. Yeah, totally. And if you're doubtful, we're in a good enough community where the culture is great enough that you can just ask, right? And literally anybody that's in a position of semi leadership can help you, right? Like everybody wants to help you get in and get started. And I'm going to answer if you did, because, you know, I'm obviously biased, but DefConf US is, I want to say it's September 2nd and 3rd. It is on the DefConf website, which is. DefConf. Intuitively enough, DefConf.us. So, all right. It's a point in a third. You are correct. Haha, look at that. I know it's going to be it's going to be a little weird because that will be like it's right around then when I have to take my son to college for the first time. And the first time he won't be living at home ever, you know, so it's going to be it's going to be an odd year, I think. All right. So going to points. Narendra is still in the lead with 5100 points. Netherland's Hackham with 5,000 points. And JP Dade, I'm sorry, but I have asked many a dumb question. There's nothing wrong with dumb questions, but sometimes questions are still in my personal experience with asking. No, a friction with 3,900 points. Joe Fuzz still static at 2,300 points. We need Joe to come back or start submitting points again. Detective Conan Kudo, who I don't think I saw him here today, but is definitely around, but had a jump, I think, ticking up, you know, and then Baconfork got clearly an escalation riser from doing something. I'm not sure what, but has made a good jump on the, you know, coming up the leaderboard. So yeah, so there's our sweet feet internet points. So excited to give them out. I always I think they're amazing. And I really appreciate all of you for participating in our in our game. And as you can see at the bottom, if you would like to get the points for this episode, they are right there on the screen and I'm about to put them in the chat as well, assuming I'm cutting and pasting the right thing. We'll try and I just I always like to check the actual code and make sure the one on the screen and the one I put in the chat are the same. So OK, so yeah, so all you do is you go and fill out the form. You don't have to put your real name in as you can tell, at least we ask for your real name. But we also ask for what do you want your nickname to be so that if we put your name on the screen, it will just be a nickname, you know, and it can be related to your Twitch name or not. It's entirely up to you, you know, but it's whatever you like. However you want to do it, you can also say private for your nickname. And if you do that, that means I will never show any information about you, including the number of points you've earned. Any, you know, name that I have for you, etc. So in fact, we have one of our leaders who was private and then switched, changed their mind eventually and they didn't lose their points. They just kind of continued on the merry way. However, I do have to have some mapping information. So please make sure you use the same email address if you want to try to pull that trick and come through as a dark horse. I'm not sure if we have any leaderboard level dark horses anymore. We did have a few. So but, you know, their end of and none of those hack them are really getting out of the point. Big points gap there. Yeah. Yeah. So those two and the rest. Right. Right. Yeah. And so go collect your intrinsic value internet points. We think they're the amazing and we think you're amazing for collecting them. And we, you know, love seeing y'all. And we're glad to be back next week's episode. I cannot remember. This is why I reused is asking how they can see their point. So the only way at the moment that you can see your current points is to message me on discord. Unfortunately, fair enough. We I mean, you can message me elsewise or you can hit me on Twitter or whatever. But this is all a brilliantly. And as several people have noticed in the past, occasionally with bugs, a hand built little thing. We've had a lot of we've had a lot of more success with the internet points and stuff than we entirely were expecting. And then we also ran into lots of fun challenges regarding corporate approval of software and that kind of stuff to getting it into like a real platform. As we have a real platform. I mean, this is a question I need to ask you anyway. We do not have a real platform. IBM, our parent company does. However, it has not been approved for use by us. So that's been a little bit of a challenge. And then, of course, we've also been trying to get the challenge of how do we have extrinsic rewards, right? So can we give you all swag or something for collecting the points? That has also run into a number of challenges, you know, things like we have to make sure we have T's and C's. We decided to get a new cool stuff store vendor in the middle. So it's been it's been a fun pandemic year for gamification. But, you know, so message me on Twitter or Discord. I can tell you how many points you have. It's actually been a while. I used I was doing periodically on Discord. I was doing like a top 20 list instead of the top whatever I do on the show six. So maybe I'll go do another top 20 into Discord sometime soon. But yeah, feel free to message me and I will get you. I can tell you how much your totals are. I will not tell you where you are in the list, though, unless you're in like the top 20. Let's see, I can I guess I could say like, oh, you're in the top 100 or something. Yeah, I mean, yeah. But I don't want to give an actual like position unless right, because it's going to change overnight. Right. Right. Yeah. So let's see what are we doing next week? Oh, next. Oh, next week. Right. OK. So next week, we have like three guests. I think it's three people. We were kind of going back and forth on how many people are going to come. But we have some people coming on who actually develop our training classes and our certification exams and stuff like that. So they're going to come on the show and talk about their transition to like virtual training and transition to virtual certifications and that kind of stuff, which if you've ever taken a certification before with Red Hat was I don't I don't like there were very few options to do it virtually. It was almost all in person. It was. Yeah. And that was actually mentioned during the certifications office hour. They took they had a nine month project scope to stand up remote learning sites. Right. They did it in four. Nice. Because of the pandemic, right? Like it was pretty much drop everything and make this work kind of deal. Yeah. Yeah. So that's who's going to be on the show next week is some members from that group, you know, and to to talk about that stuff. So please join us for that. We're going to take another swing at Docker Compose after that in the episode after that. And then, you know, we have a bunch more stuff after that. And we have the health. I finally found a person who can come on the show and talk about the Container Catalog Health Index. Nice. Excuse me, which is in a few weeks, you know, and but obviously based on availability, based on, you know, y'all yelling at us in the chat, these things can change. So, you know, keep an eye on our Twitter feeds or whatever for, you know, consistent, accurate information about whatever the next show is. But this is what I know right now. Chris, you want to tell us a little bit about what else has happened on the channel today this week? Absolutely. I'd be happy to. The the next show coming up at 11 Eastern 1500 UTC. I'm back in UTC time, not CS CEST time. That was actually a thing yesterday. I had to deal with my brain was stuck in Central European time. Anyways, we're going to be talking about just CoroS, like straight up. What is CoroS under the hood of OpenShift? Ask an OpenShift admin at 11. And then. The Eric show, the scalable multiplayer game design with OpenShift. Oh, right. That's like all afternoon. Yeah. So that'll be on in the background as I'm like scheduling out new shows and mini series and stuff. So in that regard, I would like to tell y'all that we're going to do some call for code shows this summer. We're going to be doing some neat new stuff to bring to the channel, as well as hopefully incorporating more points across the entire channel, not just Langdon show. So yeah, there's a lot in store today. And without further ado, our training session is free. I'm answering right now. So so some are specifically in relationship to the show or yeah, or discounted or whatever. So check out the level of our red dot ht level power. There's also a certification. Some of the certifications cost money. Some of them are also discounted as part of the show. You know, so go check that out. But in general, no, they are not free. These are the kind that you go and pay for. And you know, however, nothing in life is free. Well, not not nothing, but you know, or they're you're paying somehow, right? But I will say they generally get ridiculously good reviews. So while not free, you should be getting what you pay for, right? And I am grabbing all the links to the show. And I am grabbing the link to the certification thing. Oh, and the learning subscription. That's right. They introduced this and we should we'll definitely talk about that. We talked about that a little bit and we talked about it before. We'll definitely probably talk about it coming up. The learning subscription is basically like, you know, some level of like kind of all you can eat buffet kind of training and certification stuff, you know, think like if you've ever used a Riley safari same kind of idea, I don't know what the T's and C's are exactly, you know, the different levels and that kind of stuff. But, you know, that is that is a much more cost effective way to go after it if you want to take a lot of it. The other thing is that we do have a lot of things that are available to teach you in like learn dot open shift dot com or try dot open shift dot com if you want to check out stuff specifically related to open shift. And what the developer sandbox and the developer sandbox. Yes, the developer sandbox is super nice. You can go and basically get an experimental like like for you to experiment instance of open shift, not experimental like as an alpha class software. And you can go and, you know, make your own project and go, you know, deploy all the things. We actually had an episode about that on this show. We actually had two because we had one where I failed terribly, and then we had another one where we did a better job. And then there was another show on the channel in like January when it launched going through, you know, how to work it. You should find all that on our playlist. Like on my channel's playlist or sorry, on the level up our playlist, the show channel, the show play, I cannot talk. You show playlist. You can find the dev sandbox stuff there. If you want to find the other dev sandbox one, you can just kind of search the actually, I don't know where that would have landed. It's probably on the dev sandbox site, honestly. I think there's a link to it. So, so, yeah. So if it expired off, oh, you've got, yeah, sorry. If you can find it on Twitch, check out the YouTube, folks. I know my Nurendev, my my cup is empty. That is why we have to show good indication of you needing to leave. Exactly. Exactly. My coffee is also empty. So everybody stay caffeinated. Stay safe. Thank you for joining us. Oh, it's great to be back. Great to be back with love to see you. And have a lovely day. Absolutely. Thank you all out there.