 LGBT and gender, and we are starting right now. With Jangle's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us, Jangle. The floor is all yours. Thanks very much for having me. Happy Pride Month, everyone. So, alright, far right on trial. This is mostly a debate on morality, so I'm going to give you the closest thing I have to a moral framework, and throughout this debate, we'll be comparing and contrasting our views for the audience so they can judge which one is more coherent and which one they'd rather live by. So the foundation of any moral system to me has to be truth. We have to agree on what exists before we can make judgments. From there, we have to observe the thing existing to see what it does and do so in a way that lets us make accurate predictions on what it will do in the future. Our pursuit of truth requires a deep curiosity and an intellectual imagination that is constantly questioning preconceived notions and looking for better answers. This is the foundation for moral reasoning. If truth is not at the center, then the judgments built on top are faulty. From there, morality gets complicated and nuanced and nerdy, but the far right have already failed. If I were to take a stab at summing up the far right's fundamental outlook on morality and truth, I'd say it's one of deep incuriosity. They work backwards from an extremely narrow view of acceptable behaviors and then bend the truth to make it fit. It's why they never look forward, never propose new ideas, and frankly are never interested in making life better for people. They can only retreat into a manufactured comfort zone of invented nostalgia. And hey, I get it. The world has plenty of problems and thanks to the internet, we can all be hyper aware of them all of the time. It's understandable that some people want to retreat into the comfort of familiarity, even if they have to mythologized the past. But things are different now for a reason. No one seeks change because things are going great for them. If you truly believe that LGBT people are better off back in the closet, that we're incapable of true love, we would have found that out by ourselves when given the chance to try. Instead, we were given the chance to try, and we know the far right is wrong. That's why they want to take that chance away. If you truly believe that women are naturally subservient to men, then they would naturally gravitate to that role even if they had the option not to. Yet when given even the slightest opportunity to deviate from that role, women seized on the chance and now the vast majority of the population does not want to go back. Seems weird that you have to make people do what they're supposedly naturally inclined to do. If our country truly used to be great, why is it important to hide or downplay slavery, Jim Crow or the genocide of Indigenous people? Why is an honest portrayal of our history not good enough to tell the story you need to tell? If your positions are not based on at least the pursuit of truth, they will fail. They will fail because you have denied yourself the opportunity to find something better. During this debate, I want you to look out for a few things, including from me, because hey, I'm not perfect. One, circular reasoning. It's true and we all know it's true. If we all knew what was true, there would be no debate with her. The entire purpose of debate and free speech is that we have disagreements and they must be hashed out with some sort of reason. Number two, appeals to nature. Something is bad because it's unnatural. Obviously, plenty of things we consider morally abhorrent or even just gross are natural. It is not a proxy for morality. A lot of people say a natural when they actually mean divine, which are worlds apart in meaning. And number three, emotional language, disgusting, sinful, deviant. These types of words are often used to invoke a visceral response so that we react instead of reason. If something is truly immoral, it will still be immoral with more thought and investigation beyond knee-jerk reaction. If you're in the audience tonight, it's because you enjoy hearing other points of view. You enjoy learning about the ways of looking at the world and other ways of looking at the world, even if you don't agree with them. You're curious about the truth. So as this debate progresses, ask yourself if these qualities are shared by Hank. Thank you very much for that opening statement. We are going to kick it over to Hank for his opening statement as well. I want to let you know, folks, if it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate, we are a neutral platform hosting debates, discussions, and panels on all sorts of topics. We hope you feel welcome, no matter what walk of life you are from. And don't forget to hit that subscribe button as we have many more juicy debates coming up. So for example, very excited about this one, just booked it today. Jackson Hinkle and Infrared return to take on Adam Something and Destiny this Saturday. You don't want to miss it. So hit that subscribe button with that. James Hake, thanks so much for being with us. The floor is all yours. Thank you, James Koons, in Modern Day Debate. Thanks to Janglez and shout out to the chat. So my take, Hank's take on LGBT race and gender. I say that LGBT race, gender, all these things that are pushed in the so-called civil rights movement, these are all false identities that are used to divide and conquer against, used against people using their own vices and false pride against them. I say that everybody naturally knows to use that circular reasoning that he, perhaps circular reasoning that he, that Janglez preemptively accused me of doing maybe. I say that everybody naturally knows that LGBT mess is not right, that it's a perversion. Inherently, children know that and that's why they have to train the children and brainwash them into thinking, oh, this is fine. This is something to be celebrated. To the so-called LGBT, it is not who you are. It is, it's not even what you are. That's what you've gotten into and it's understandable. It's nothing to be proud of, certainly, despite the fact we are in so-called pride months, pride in a false, false pride and a false identity. It's nothing to beat yourself up over either, nor for anyone to beat up anybody, except in the case of, you know, if there's some sort of assault or violation going on. But I do indeed believe that the so-called LGBT and everybody with vices should keep those vices quiet, keep them in the quote-unquote closet, have dignity, have respect for yourself and others, people around you. Don't hate the truth, don't hate reality and don't hate people who who disagree with your sense of identity. Similarly, I think that being caught up in your race, your people, your culture, your family even, is a distraction from what's important. Many people take their whole lives sideways just as they get into the LGBT mess or a bad relationship with the straights even. People's lives go sideways when they get caught up in the wrong thing. It's a distraction from what's important. Keep what's right in front of you. The people in this country who are most hung up on race, take a look at them. They're doing the worst spiritually. They're doing the worst in many ways, in many other ways, crime, finance, families. They don't even love one another, much less the other races. They have the wrong kind of relationships with their mothers and fathers and between men and women. They feel like victims. They often become perpetrators. In this country, the people least attached to their race, those are the most attacked as so-called racist, which we all know that's not even a real thing. Those without any false guilt about this imaginary racism and with those without any false excuses about racism because racism is used as an excuse by the so-called victim. The people who are not distracted by that, who are not feeling guilty or feeling like victims, they're doing well in life. They're doing well for themselves. They're honest with their fellow man regardless of race, regardless of gender, regardless of the LGBT false identity, just like Trump is. Our greatest president, Donald J. Trump, he was honest with everybody. He dealt with everybody. When they disagreed, he went after them. When they loved him, he treated them right as well. The darkness hates the light. The lies hate the truth. That's why you saw the media going after Trump is accusing him of being racist and sexist. They might have even tried to call him anti-transgender and anti-gay even though he was very kind to all those groups. Similarly, men do best as simply being themselves. They're not into the idea of being a man. They're speaking and acting based on what's right. The problem that women get fall into and that other people who are into these gender dysphoria things fall into is false notions of what it is to be a man or what it is to be a woman or feel like a man or feel like a woman. Thinking that women frequently will think that they have to represent all women, defend women and compete with other women and compete with men. They're easily offended when you say something about them or about women. Yet, they'll turn around and gossip and just judge and slander one another as well as men. See through the lies and recognize evil and return to what's right. Return to love rather than these false identities. Thank you very much for that opening as well. Want to let you know, folks, we are stoked to vote this upcoming debate as well at the bottom right of your screen. Vosch and Dr. Bogartis from Pepperdine University will be debating whether or not trans women are women. It is going to be a juicy one. You don't want to miss it. So if you have a friend who you think might enjoy that debate, I'd highly encourage you to share. You can actually click the share button down below and that helps us as a neutral platform grow as we want to give everybody a fair shot to make their case. With that, thank you very much gentlemen. The floor is all yours for open conversation. Wonderful. There was a lot of stuff that I liked. I would like us to return to love. There's something you said. Let's see. Don't hate people who disagree with your sensitive identity. I think that's wonderful. That's a wonderful sentiment to have. Do have a few questions though. So were you about to call Trump the great white hope? I was about to call him the great white hope. So I'm just wondering like what, so I would love for race not to matter as well. So why is it important that he's the great white hope? Why is now, now race is important specifically for white people? It is not important even for white people, just to clarify. But it is sort of a, since whites are hated right now, it is important to point that out that he is white and that's part of the reason that they hate him. If you hate white people, and if you hate them because they are white, is that racist? No. And you don't, they don't hate them because they're white. They do not hate them because they're white. I don't believe that anybody hates anybody simply because they're white or simply because they're black. They believe some moral issue about the person or about the group. That is true. That is true. And those moral judgments are often correct, but we have a name for that when someone hates someone based on their race, even if it's based on false premises and we call that racism. It's like a useful term. Even if you think that white people are being oppressed, we gotta talk about racism. Right. I disagree that it's a useful term because at root, that is not the root of the issue. That's the surface level appearance. I think that it is a, I think it's more an illusion than it is a diagnosis of the person of the, either the system or the heart of the person. Okay. Because in reality, the person who hates the racist or the person who is accused of being racist, they're guilty of the same thing as, which is judgment. Has racism ever existed? I know. No. So racism has never existed. As in 200 years ago, when we were in putting black people in chains because they were black, no, no weird moral equivalency there. They were put in chains because they were black and we made laws to make sure they stayed in chains because they were black. That wasn't racist. It was not, I don't think that it was because they were black. That became the excuse. It became the, hey, these people, it's easy to differentiate them. Let's think of them this way, but they were for sale. They were, yes, slavery did happen and yes, perhaps many of these Jim Crow laws and all these things were unjust, but it was not, it was a, I mean, it was a reality. No, I agree with you. There's a lot more complicated than just like black people. Like it was almost like a postdoc justification. Like, yeah, we're gonna own these people. Wait, that seems kind of fucked up. Maybe we own them because they are a different color and that means that color is worse. I agree that is a kind of a postdoc rationalization. That's how a lot of racism kind of manifests itself. Oftentimes it works backwards. Like you think a certain way. You want to justify your own behavior so you work backwards from it. However, that doesn't mean that it still doesn't have an effect. If that's the way people thought, they might have been postdoc rationalization, but the reason that we have all these effects that we see today is because people are of different races and all the effects that are, as a result of the historical circumstances like slavery, like Jim Crow, like redlining, like the drug war, all these things still affect people disproportionately. So I would love for race not to be a thing, but it seems like people still make it a thing. I disagree with you that those things still have an effect today, but let's let that sit for now. Even this fight against racism is an extension of that same injustice. Is your fight against evil also an extension of that evil? No, because unless if I'm misguided, yes it is. Because you can fight evil in the wrong way. You see people blowing up abortion clinics. Let's say killing babies is wrong, or killing babies in the womb is wrong, or killing fetuses in the womb is wrong. Fighting evil with evil is evil. Okay. I can definitely agree. Fighting evil with evil is not great. I'm glad you condemn a bomb in abortion clinics. Very good. So yeah, I want to circle back to something. So you do believe in common sense. All of us kind of believe in common sense to a certain degree like this. It's hard to go through life without believing in some sort of common sense. We all have a script for common day-to-day interactions. I just got to wonder what happens when my sense of common sense is different from yours? How do we determine who is correct? You know, you have to look at yourself and what you think that you know, and I have to look at myself and what I think I know. I don't think that it's you're, we're ever going to, I don't think it's, human beings are ever really going to convince one another unless they're open to the truth or open to the lie. That is true. Well, yeah, open to more experiences. It's hard to know the truth. The world is very complex. So you have to be open to it. And so it seems like if you have already decided that something is true and you work backwards from that to create a truth that supports what you believe is true, to look at it, look for evidence to confirm your preconceived notions, then you're never going to find the actual truth. True. I have a question. I, obviously, based on my common sense, think I do know true love. I think that I have true love with my husband. I think that all of the reasons that I've been given throughout my entire life for why this is not true love and why it is wrong have fallen flat on their face when I just compare it with my own experience. You're telling me that something exists when I can very clearly see that it doesn't or vice versa. I can very clearly see this love existing. I can experience this love existing. And then the best answer I've been given, the best rebuttal to that seems to be a nuh-uh. So if you were trying to convince me that my marriage is, that my love isn't real, it's a, I mean, a fallen stater or something. How would you convince me? Because I've not been convinced by nuh-uh. Right. And I wouldn't, I think it's a mistake to try to convince somebody. You just tell them the truth as you see it without any judgment or arrogance. And do they accept it fine? And if not, fine. As far as you- I'm sorry, convince. Okay. As far as whether you have true love, I would perhaps question what love is in your mind. I would acknowledge that human beings, there is this, the sex stuff I say is a perversion. Is that emotional language you just use perversion? Isn't that judgment? It is a judgment, but it's not a, it's not like a, I'm not like slamming you with it. I'm just saying that- Oh, you don't have to be slandered. It's still like a judgment. I mean, if you say it is what it is, well, what it is, is a judgment. You kind of just said earlier that you shouldn't, you should explain your opinion without judgment. Right. Right. But that's not the kind of judgment that I was talking about. I was talking about judgmentalism. You can, you can meet out a judgment as right or wrong or whatever, I guess, without being judgmentalist or whatever. Okay. That seems like a fundamental component of a judgment, but that's, I guess that's fine. I mean, you have to, you have to, I don't know if you have to, but a perversion is, I don't know, it's a description. It is a judgment, whatever, man. But when I say judgment, I mean any emotion attached. I know that it is any, it is a sort of a bomb-throwing word, I guess. Yeah. I'm like a mortal emotional word. Is that right? Right. Sometimes those hard hitting words are like, they cut to the quick and, and they can pierce rather than the talking around it or softening it. They can force you to make a, they can force you to make a snap judgment. Right. They can, but they can also make you stop and pause and consider whether this is true or not. Well, if you stop and pause, like the reason you use the emotional language is like it cuts through. And so like, you don't have to have all the, like the nuance, you don't have to have all the investigation. You just get straight to the quick. I get the appeal in that, but I don't know what I was saying earlier. Like, yeah, you can do that, but if something is wrong, it's truly wrong. It will be wrong with more and more investigation, with more knowledge about what this thing is, with more experiences folded in. Like that will still be wrong after that. So because we are flawed individuals, none of us are perfect, perfectly logical. None of us are perfectly reasonable. Seems like we need more and more input, more and more data, more and more experiences to determine what morality should be. And to do that, we have to have a diverse array of experiences. And it seems like, and I could be misinterpreting you, it seems like you really want to narrow the acceptable boundaries of what a human can experience based on some immutable characteristics, specifically gender and sexuality. I don't see those as immutable characteristics. So you think gender is immutable? You can change your gender? I was talking about the sexuality aspect of that. Okay, clarifying. But as far as gender goes, we all have different roles. I think you may be talking about the men and men over women thing. Yeah, let's make specifically that. Sure. Yeah. What's your question? I guess, why? So you have these, it seems like you have these very specific roles, this very specific boundary for what a human ought to be able to experience and do. And those are based for this purpose, they're based on someone's gender. So if someone is a man, here's his box. If someone is a woman, here's her box. And it seems like just because of those things, that limits them. When we've seen when those boxes are opened, when people have more availability for their experiences, they often choose things that were thought to be innate, they were thought to be, quote unquote, natural inclinations. So when people are given choices, they often choose, it really flips it back around to say that like a lot of the social roles that we give all these genders, those are socially imposed, those aren't natural. If given another option, people will choose and flourish and thrive while choosing a path that might not be prescribed to them. And I just don't think, take it this isn't a tag, they wouldn't thrive as well if they were prescribed to your ideology. Can you be more specific, talk about women working? Yeah, women working. So I think it's wonderful when people can choose to stay in the home. I think it's wonderful to be a mother. I think it's wonderful to be a father. But for a lot of people, that's not enough. If they might make the choice not to have children at all, they might make the choice to go to the workforce and they might do really, really well. Most of the women in my science-based graduate program were incredibly intelligent, doing fantastic research. There's a good chance that if you get a shoulder surgery in the next 10 years, someone I went to school with, it was her research that pioneered and advanced the concept of a reverse shoulder replacement. So we would be denying that incredibly intelligent woman the chance to better humanity because we've put her in a box of wife and mother, you should be happy with that. For sure, while the kids are at home, while the kids are young, I think that the women should be taking care of the kids while the man is working. I don't think that men and women working has been good for society. I get that there are some talents that can come out of a woman before or if she doesn't marry or after the kids are grown or whatever. She can do that stuff at those times. But I think that even when they are working, they end up having to take leave and all that stuff. It's not like a natural way of being for them and it ends up being more stressful than not. Of course, it's natural. If it wasn't natural, it would be supernatural or synthetic. So of course, it's natural. It's that they're natural biology, choosing what is going to make them the happiest. Now, I agree. It sucks that both parents have to work in order to maintain the income that is necessary to raise a child now. But I got a question. Do you think fathers are inferior to raising children than mothers? Perhaps in the younger years, yes. They cannot feed the children naturally in their bodies. That's an easy work around for that, right? There are workarounds, but it's either formula or you can pre-pump. They're still bonding between parents. They're still bonding between, you know. But it is better for the mother to have the kids younger and for the father to take them after the three. Well, that's beside the point of gender. That's right. I ought that to be something that's men and women are encouraged to do. Fathers are better at raising older children after like three years, I think. They seem to have a natural authority about them. They don't have to yell or impose their will on the kids as much as the mothers do. They don't get as stressed out as easily when the kids are acting up. Plenty of mothers are super cool under pressure. Plenty of women have that like authoritative presence. And on the flip side of that, plenty of men are empathetic and nurturing. Do you think it's bad for like, let's take some general rules here and let's flip them into what they would typically be assigned to. Do you think it's bad for a man to be empathetic and nurturing? It may be. It's a trap that men sometimes fall into when they get emotional. I mean, there's a time and place for that type of a thing, but in general, I don't think that it is good or wise to be that way. I think empathetic is just a good trait without a gender associated with it. It is a liberal word. And so I would expect you to think that empathy is a liberal word. I thought empathy was also a pretty important thing in Christianity. I don't think so. I don't think that word is found in the Bible. Well, I think return to love, something that you said kind of like implies empathy, right? What is love if not empathy? If not understanding and wishing the best for your fellow man. I think empathy may be some of our best attempts at imitating love, but it falls flat. It oftentimes, you know, sometimes you try to help people. You end up enabling them. Oftentimes empathy will cause you to do stuff like that. Help when it's not appropriate. Well, that is true. But you can also, if you don't have empathy, you're not going to help when it is needed. Well, if you see that a need is there, you don't have the empathy for it. You don't care about the need without empathy. Because, you know, a man is, I think, driven more by duty, with the logic, what he sees the need. He feels the need. He's not emotional about it. He's not feeling what they feel or trying to walk in their shoes or anything like that. Because that's empathy and logic are not dichotomous. They can exist in the same place. I understand that. There's a logic to empathy, right? But my point is he's not trying to, he's not imagining himself in the poor person's shoes or whatever is going on. Is there not value to that? So you better understand how to help them? I think that that is a trap. One of the games that was played, for example, in these shootings, you heard frequently, imagine if those were your kids, you know, the shooting in Uvalde, Texas. Imagine if those were your kids and then you get into your imagination and you get emotional and then you come up with, you suddenly want to do something and you end up doing the false solution. Yeah. Are you saying that people are being tricked into caring about dead kids? People are being tricked into caring about it? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yes. Because naturally, if something doesn't happen in your vicinity, you don't really see it. You don't really have a comprehension about it. You can take a more logical approach to solving the problem because you are removed from the situation. But when you imagine yourself in the situation, first of all, you don't know what it's like to lose a child and you don't know what it's like for another person to, even if you lost a child, you don't know what it's like for the other person to have lost their child. Surely we have enough human experience to take a crack at it. We can probably narrow it down to, it probably doesn't feel good, right? Right. But the point is not, it's a whole diversion away from solving the problem. I can kind of agree that emotion can get in the way of solving the problem, but you can do, you can still have the emotion. It is still, in my opinion, still very good to feel deep sorrow for the loss of 19 children. And how many adults was it? Two, I think. Two. Okay. So 21 people, 19 of which were children, is still very good to have an emotional response to that. That doesn't, if you don't have a response to that, I don't think that makes you masculine. I think that makes you a borderline sociopath. That should be something. Now, I do agree that like the law... I want to make that judgment, man. Because a lot of people, I remember 9-11 happened. And I'm in LA, right? I don't know anybody in New York. I felt nothing about it. And then I was like, I should feel guilty for feeling nothing about it. And so like, you just end up working yourself into a tizzy, thinking that it's moral to make up feelings when you don't have a feeling about it. I could see that it was wrong, it was evil, but I had no feeling about it. So I think that it's not sociopathic. You don't want to judge people just for not being emotional about something that really has nothing to do with them. You know what? That's fair. I shouldn't call people sociopaths for not feeling things. That might be perfectly natural. That might be perfectly okay. You might be a good, healthy, moral person because of it. However, how do we base laws in pure logic? How do we determine whether something is wrong? Let's get back to the LGBT stuff, because we're talking about general morality. How can we determine why... Let's just narrow it down to homosexuality. How can we determine that that is wrong without invoking circular reasoning, without saying it's wrong because it's wrong, or it's wrong because it's gross? I don't know if you can, honestly. You can... Maybe other people smarter than me can who've really, like, I don't know, people who are just deep. But I think that inherently, like what I said, that children naturally kind of know that something is out of order and wrong about it. I think that it's not just a religious who... I think even you... Let's say you were into that, right? You could say I'm into that. At one point, did you ever have a qualm about it? Well, I was raised in a conservative Christian house sold by two conservative Christians in a conservative rural parts of Kentucky. That was fed to me at every step of the way. Then one day, I started like, you know, dealing with this attraction. And then I thought, wait a second, why is this wrong? Let me give it a shot. And I got my first boyfriend. Holy shit. All of them were lying to me. They never could justify it. They never could justify it beyond it's wrong because it's wrong or it's wrong because it's gross. You know, kids think a lot of things are gross. Kids think intuitively. Broccoli is gross. Kids think intuitively that a man and a woman holding hands, any romance at all, they think that's gross. I don't think we should be... Yeah, I don't think we should be using children's barometers to make adult decisions because then you run into, well, how do you convince... So you might not be able to convince me, but you wouldn't change the laws to make it so that queer people stayed in the closet, wouldn't you? I might. I might because if something is not accepted and encouraged, then it can be a damper rather than an encourager. Right now we have it where they're pushing it to be proud. We have parents and... Why do you think we're being pushed to be proud? I think it's in a backlash because it's been shamed, I guess. Yeah, you know, that's good. None of us are like... We didn't do an accomplishment by being born gay or trans or bi or whatever. We didn't accomplish that. But yeah, it is kind of a little bit in defiance. And hey, that's part of the American character. We are defiant. If you can't give me a good reason not to do something, I get to do it. That's freedom, baby. Freedom of speech fucking matters. Hell, yeah. Liberty, all that cool stuff. So yeah, it is kind of a response to that. It's a response to say like, your arguments weren't good enough. And here's the big thing. But what was the lie that those people told you? You said that you were lied to. Oh, yeah, I was lied to. They lied and said that being gay is sinful and gross and you'll never find love and that it doesn't actually count as like a good lifestyle to have. And now I'm 18... Well, not 18. Let's see how old I am. It's 12 years, 11 years into it. I forget how old I am. Now I'm 11 years into it. I've been with my husband for close to 10 of those years and wow, they were wrong. They weren't just a little bit wrong. They were the exact, exactly wrong, almost to like the decimal level. It was amazing. Nice. Going back to the inherent knowing thing, you don't know whether you would have known right from wrong because your parents and everybody around you was teaching you. So you weren't allowed to know things for yourself. Do you think that you shouldn't teach children anything? I think it is oftentimes a mistake. So should we just... In terms of like teaching them, oh, sex out of wedlock and the mothers are bad about this, I think. They are teaching... I saw a pocket article. I don't know if you're familiar with pocket. It's on Firefox. A pocket article. How to teach your children, it might be even here now. How to teach your children to welcome refugees? And it's so contrived. It's a little bit different than what we were talking about. Well, my point is teaching. Teaching of morality, teaching of the religion to the children. Oftentimes the mothers don't even understand it themselves. So do you think we should have Sunday schools in church? I think so. It's just... It's not teaching morality, teaching a version of truth. It may be. You have to watch yourself. So it seems like you think that children are pure and that if they were untouched by the world, they would have all the answers in terms of what is moral. Maybe not necessarily, but they do have... Before... We tend to get worse and more corrupt in life. You may notice in terms of vices, they get... You acquire new vices and they get... My nephew tried to stick a fork in an electrical socket last year. I'm pretty sure it's good that we were... Oh, it's good that we taught him not to do that, right? Right. Yeah, that's fair. Although you don't want to traumatize the kid about it. Of course not. But they'd be much more traumatized if they made a wrong decision, because kids are curious. And that's why I don't... I think kids are curious. They do want to know more about the world. And I do think it causes them harm to say like, no, here's a really, really narrow range of beliefs that you're allowed to even explore. And anything outside of that is deviant. It's gross. It's sinful. I think that we should allow a little bit more freedom than that. Well, I guess that's why the Amish allow the Rumspringa, so that the people can go out and be wild and then see for themselves. It's actually a wonderful segue to my next point, believe it or not. So in the society I want, there's nothing... I'm going to guess that there's nothing that you're doing right now that I would disallow. You can be a Christian. You can be a far-right Christian. If you want to, you can be very, very conservative. You can get married. You can get married to one woman and have four to five kids and a white pick of friends. You can still do all of those things. So... How about 10? But in your society, I don't have those things. I don't have what I have right now. So why are you scared of giving people the option? If you're reasoning, if your life is so great, why restricts life to just that? Why not let people choose that life for themselves? It seems that would be more meaningful. You chose your life. Doesn't that give it more meaning? I don't know how much I chose my life. I don't think that we choose our life. I mean, I get that we are supposed to be responsible and all that stuff. But in terms of how your life goes, it's kind of... You kind of let along in some form or other, depending on who or what is leading you. Would you allow me the freedom of speech to have an internet website in America and tell the truth on Twitter, which are being censored and all that stuff? Well, I can't control Twitter because that isn't for every company. What if you were the boss of the world, would Twitter allow free speech? If I was the boss of the world, I think I'd step down from that position because I'm an idiot. If I was the boss of the world, I want to maximize free speech. So, however, if you go on a lot of free speech websites, the speech isn't very free. It's very, very one-directional. There is a point in which just shouting the slurs or like spamming really graphic porn. That would be under this maximum amount of free speech, but that's going to style a lot of people's speech. There needs to be a balance. Everyone agrees that there's a balance. I'm very concerned about that balance. I want to maximize freedom. And it seems like you really want to narrow down what freedom of speech would be. It seems like you're willing to use freedom of speech to get what you want, which is what we all should do. Great. That's what we all should do, is use freedom of speech as it is intended to voice our opinions. But then it seems like the second you would get what you want with freedom of speech, you're like, oh, no one else. I got mine. Probably so. Yeah, because freedom means you mentioned freedom. Freedom means freedom to tell the truth. Freedom of speech means freedom to tell the truth best you see. Freedom to be honest. I don't think that porn qualifies as speech, honestly. I mean, if you want real freedom, you'd have the freedom to lie, to spread misinformation. That's the whole point of like... Right. But that's not... That's my point. You mentioned freedom to go off and do your own thing. But that's an imaginary freedom, because there's freedom from morals or freedom from sin, I guess. To put it... When most people say freedom, most people, when they say freedom... Freedom to be moral? Freedom to do more things. Everyone's free to be moral. Who is not free to be moral? Who can't do the right thing? It seems like a weird definition of freedom. Most people have... Most people are not really stopped really so much by the government or other people from being moral. That's good, right? They're trapped within. They're not free within. Well, I feel pretty free. So I got to ask you. So you say you would probably outlaw same-sex marriage at the very least. You would probably outlaw that? Right, because that's not a real marriage. It is a real marriage. I got the paper. It says it's real. Now, what would the punishment... The paper. The government lies all the time. Well, not here. I got the paper. And also like... But that's a lying paper. Well, in a common sense, everybody knows that I'm married. So what would the punishment be for people who try to get married? Let's say they would just be disallowed. Okay. So what about gay sex then? Would you allow gay sex? It shouldn't be happening. It shouldn't be happening. So would you make it a lie? I don't know what the punishment should be. I don't know. I haven't really thought that deeply about that because that's so far removed from... It's pretty important. I don't think it is because it's so far removed from reality. I mean, maybe your reality... It makes an appearance occasionally in my reality, the gay sex. It just makes an appearance occasionally. No, I'm not saying that the sex, the so-called sex, is not happening. Because the real sex is supposed to be the kind that can produce life as my... So I can't have sex. Well, that means all of it's legal. None of it is immoral. It's a perversion. I cannot have... I can't have gay... If gay sex is immoral and it's impossible to have, I'm good. I don't know how harsh I would be if I were the boss of the world and I don't know if I would step down. I don't know. Maybe I would. If it's so... But let's say I was the boss of the world and my way was that. I don't know that I would punish it, but I certainly wouldn't smile upon it. It would be equivalent of public indecency if somebody were to be flaunting their... flaunting the fact that they do that, say. Okay, so you can't flaunt the things you do. Right. Why? Because it's... one thing that is a problem is that evil tends to grow. When you let them... you let them out of the closet and then they want the so-called gay marriage and they want... then they want the... all these other things and then they start to do... It's almost like we want equal rights, right? No, but it's more malicious than that because you'll notice that the radical homosexuals who are just... I'm pretty radical. Well, I don't know you personally, but you'll notice that many of these... many of these people are doing to the Christians what they felt was done to them. I don't think that's true. I don't think anyone's trying to outlaw Christianity. No one's trying to like... Oh my gosh. There's a lot of attacks on free speech of the Christians. Free speech to what? In many different ways, not just through the laws. And there is a... there are these anti-discrimination laws and lawsuits that are being exploited to go after the Christians. Do you think that I should be... Hold on, with anti-discrimination, you understand that it protects Christians as well as atheists? And you understand that anti-discrimination protects straight people as well as gay people, right? I do understand that, but that's not... I don't believe in anti-discrimination laws. I don't think whatsoever. So I can discriminate against Christians. It should be my right to do that. Yes. See, I don't agree with that. I don't... I'm very pretty militant atheist, but that's not the world I want to live in. I want to respect people. You have the freedom to do it, but you wouldn't do it. But say somebody really doesn't like Christians, and I walk into his... I walk into his... Bakery. Has to be the bakery. And he's gonna either want to spit in my food, or gonna have to serve me against his will. I wouldn't wish that on a person who doesn't want to do that. But you can still do that and have anti-discrimination. I think both of those things are good. I don't want to live in a world where you have to find the baker of which, if you live in a small town, might be just one person. I don't want to have to find the business that would accept a Christian. Right, but that's not what these people are doing. When I'm talking about how these guys are doing unto the Christians, what they felt the Christians did unto them, like the blacks are doing unto the whites, what they thought the whites were doing. Not even a little bit close in both scenarios, right? What are you saying? If racism doesn't exist, you say what the blacks are doing to the whites, and you say homophobia doesn't exist, or any sort of... I guess bakery doesn't exist. Why are you trying to reverse uno this? Why are you trying to make it a big deal? Well, the point is it's malice and judgment, and then when you feel like a victim, you become a perpetrator, and you become malicious in its division, it's divide and conquer type stuff. We get caught up in a big mess that we don't even need to be concerned with. Do you think the great wide hope victimized a lot of white people and used white grievances and white fears? Do you think he utilized that victimhood mentality in his rhetoric? I... There were many whites who were victim-minded, who got caught up with Trump. Yes, but that was not Trump's... He certainly appealed to that. It was not the meaning behind it. He was just simply telling the truth. There were legitimate issues, complaints, if you will, but... There are legitimate reasons to be a victim? No, there's never a legitimate reason to be a victim. Even if you are victimized, say you get assaulted or whatever, you do not take on that victim feeling, because once it's over, it's done, and you rebuild, recover, whatever. You don't hold on to that emotional trauma or let that... That's great advice for Christians to follow because we have gay marriage. You did lose. You're not being victimized. So, let it go. Don't have a victim mentality. Don't get upset. No, you're right. We should... Christians should not be upset. That's true, but they should also not go along with... They should not go along with what's wrong or with... Well, here's what my freedom means. You don't have to. You don't have to go to Pride parades. You don't have to get gay married. You don't have to look at a gay person if you don't want to. You don't have to associate with them in any way beyond like a professional capacity and non-discrimination laws. You have all the freedom to do that. So, it's a problem. Why is it so important for... I guess we're focusing on gays. Why is it so important to put queer people back in the closet? Why is that so important? How is that going to help people? I think it's going to help Christians. It's not about Christians, per se. It's about society, the best for society. It's best for the so-called gays themselves. No, it's not. I know you utterly disagree and that you have your experience. That notwithstanding, that doesn't mean going along with this stuff. You don't know what your life would be like had your life been a different way. You don't know. You're quite content, you think. You feel whatever with your situation. I feel love. I feel real love. Maybe things would have been different. I don't know. Love is what you feel, but... You think that you can choose your sexuality? No. No, excellent. Okay, so I'm very glad to hear that. But you can get twisted. And it is... What's the difference between choosing and getting it twisted? Being twisted is not a choice. We are all twisted in different ways through childhood, through who knows what, right? Much of it is a mystery, but we all have our issues. We don't choose those issues. Yeah, you could say we go down a wrong path, or we make wrong, quote, unquote, choices, and that leads you astray, but I really don't see that as a choice. So the reason I think that 71% of Americans approve of gay marriage now, like it was a very recent poll, like the date, like I think today for the start of Pride Month, 71% of Americans approve and support same-sex marriage is because they were... Once you were fed all these, like, if we have gay marriage society will collapse. Well, we had gay marriage and it didn't. And people started to know a lot of gay people. And I wish we were more interesting. Turns out, really, really, really not. And of course, gay people, when they were allowed to get married, realized that that is what they wanted to do. Now, I think that if you were very confident in your assertion that it's not real love, you'll never find fulfillment. It's not real sex. I feel like you should let us give it a shot and find out for ourselves. You can give it a shot and find out for yourself. But I wouldn't pretend... I'm not going to pretend like I recognize that as real and right. Okay, so I don't think God is real. I don't recognize that as real. However, I want you to decide that for yourself. I would never say that Christians don't exist just because I don't believe in God. I would never say that you're not allowed to practice your faith in the way that you believe, as long as it's not hurting anyone else. I think that's what freedom should be. It should be. You get to do what you want to do as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. And I would expect that same reciprocation. But something that really concerned me is you are for free speech in order to take it away. It seems a little like... I don't know, it almost seems like hypocritical or something that lacks integrity to utilize free speech. You're complaining about all the gays are shutting down the Christians. All the gays are shutting down free speech. It's not my main point, but it is a side complaint. Yeah. It is almost like complaining while admitting that you would absolutely do that if you had things your way. Does that all sit weird in your chest, that notion? No, you might be imagining things about what I would do. Because this is all like, what would you do? And I have no idea what I would do. I didn't really... There's no way for me to know what I would do if I were to take power. But I know what's right. And it's good for a society to enforce what's right on society. You know what? How do you determine what's right? The men who are sensible should take the power that they can take and enforce that in the world. Okay, well, I'm a sensible man, and I think that's wrong. I think that's a terrible way to do things. You say you're sensible, but that doesn't sound sensible. No, who determines who's sensible? You said the sensible man, who determines who's the sensible man? That's up for the man himself. That's up for the sensible man to decide who they are? Oh, I'm glad. That's a great loophole. I'm the sensible man. I get to be in charge. Just because you claim it doesn't mean... And same thing with me, just because I claim it doesn't mean it is. I agree, but isn't it natural for men to lead? No, I mean, it can't be. But in terms of the implications of that, it is natural for men to lead overall, necessarily. Women can be great leaders as well. So non-binary people, I don't forget about you all. I totally disagree, man. I've a lot of trackers we're talking about. Yeah, and it's great that we can disagree, isn't it? That is what's hard in society. Getting people who disagree, getting people who are very, very different from one another to live under one metaphorical roof. That's tough. That is what America can do at our best. And I think it shows a certain amount of weakness to want to restrict that, to narrow that range, because you're scared or uncomfortable or grossed out, or just weirded out by other people living in ways that don't actually directly hurt you. I think it takes a lot of courage to like, no, I'm going to expand my horizons. I'm going to live with people who are different than me. And we're going to be awesome. We're going to be best fucking buddies, because that is what America can be. And it seems just cowardice to run away from that. What's interesting is that the Christians who are living it right are doing that already. You'll notice Trump was doing that. And the people were overreacting to him and wanting to clamp down on him and his supporters. You're acting like your side. I don't know how you are personally, but you're acting like the side of who you're representing, the LGBT people, the people who are into the gender and race stuff. The so-called civil rights and social justice people are these benign people who want to get along with everybody. And that's really not reality. These people are evil. They're malicious. They're nasty towards the whites. Sounds very judgmental. Yeah, but it's true. They're nasty towards the whites. Well, don't worry. All you have to do is not be a victim. They're nasty towards... Yeah, don't be a victim. It's true. But they're nasty towards one another. They're not actually getting along by and large, notwithstanding the fact that you were raised... You're a leftover Christian, really. You were raised Christian, so you get along with people. I was one of the crazy ones. I was the one who wanted me. You're a white Christian male, ex-Christian male. And so you're naturally going to have some ways of getting along with people in a set of ingrained imitation morals, so you get along relatively recently in life. Yeah, most people have an imitation of... You know what's... I know it's a little bit off topic, but we aren't talking morality. Do you know that I couldn't point it back to the very instance that I questioned Christianity. I was in sixth grade. And I was in geography class, so I was indoctrinated into my rural Kentucky Christian school into being woke. And what the teacher said, the social studies teacher said was, hey, other religions exist in the world. Here's a map. Here's like all these Jews in this part of the world. Here's all these Hindus and Muslims in this part of the world. And this is where all the people of different religions mostly live. And then someone raised their hand, lovely little girl, little white girl, and asked, hey, why do they have different religions? Don't they know they're wrong? I mean, we're the right ones. The Christians are the right ones. And the teacher said, well, they think they're right too. And that was it. That was the seed of doubt. That's all it took. And that's why I was able to experience that. I was able to have that little seed of doubt. And then everything came crumbling down because there was not a good solid foundation of truth underneath it. And so all it took is questioning. It seems like you want to take away a lot of questioning. I'm just curious. What questioning do I want to take away? Maybe you could explain. You wore a shirt and maybe it was a joke, but you're wearing a shirt that's not a joke right now. You wore a shirt in a debate. This is like knowledge is poison. And you've said a few times that knowledge can be bad. Education is bad. And it seems like you don't want people to have too many other different perspectives. Otherwise, they might not choose yours. No, it's not so much about that. It's about there is a trap of knowledge where you start to know something, think you know something, and then it puffs you up. And sometimes people, you may know something that is indeed true, but that's like the Bible says, and it's a good principle I think you would even agree with. If you have all the knowledge, but you don't have love, you're nothing. And you'll notice that there's a lot of knowledgeable people with no love. And that's across the so-called political spectrum and all that. Would you believe me if I said, I love you, Hank? Would you believe me if I said that I want to outlaw Christianity? I want to make sure this is Pride Month. That means it is illegal to be straight, all right? If you're not gay, the FBI is coming for you. But don't worry, I still love you. I don't support your lifestyle. I think it's pretty far removed from the truth. I think you'd have to have a pretty big victory. Well, I mean, the FBI, a bunch of liberals, let's face it. But finish your point. You're saying that it interrupted you. No, you're saying it is possible for me to call the FBI on straight people during Pride Month. Okay, maybe, maybe I'll rethink. No, I was saying it's not too far removed from the truth. It is removed from the truth. Go ahead. All right, I forgot when I was going with that. Now I'm getting my world domination plans. Like I am going to annihilate the straight. It's just like Marjorie Taylor Greene said. Hey, is she the leader? But you said that you want to outlaw Christianity but still say that you love me. That was it. That was it, yeah. Would you take that seriously? I would accept that you think that you love me. I would, I would also accept that you think that you love me. Or else I would, I would think, oh, this guy's trying to pretend or talk out of both sides of his mouth. Gaslight. Yeah, yeah. Gaslight, gay, gay, girl boss, all that fun stuff. Yeah, it's kind of like, it doesn't really, if you say you love all people but then like, but these people, you got to stop being the type of person you are. I know you think it's good. I know you think it's right. I know you think you are able to choose for yourself what makes you happy and what gives you joy. But actually you're not. I've decided that I'm just way better at that. And no, your marriage, not only is it not real, your love is fake. That just. Most love is fake. That's why marriages are falling apart. And some marriages, oh, it's cheaper to keep her type of situation. But you'll notice that most people don't really, it's, it's not a happy, it's not a peace. I haven't noticed that. And here's where the, no. And here's where the weird thing is. Kentucky must be a beautiful place. It is a, it's, it's got its ups and downs. It's very, it's very pretty. I'm still there. Yeah. Other end of the state. Now, here's the weird thing with common sense. Yeah, I think marriages can have trouble, but all the marriages with people around my age are doing great. Maybe that's because they're young. I've heard marriage had its ups and downs. Overall, it was okay. I think marriage is doing just fine. In fact, I think that gay marriage has proven that's we can be just as boring as straight people, unfortunately. And so why get rid of that? What harm is it doing? Well, one of the harms is the training of attempts at brainwashing the children into accepting wrong is right. It's, it's wrong to call wrong right. Okay. It's, it's wrong. Okay. I want to declare it's wrong to say God exists because I disagree with that statement. That is wrong to do because it isn't untrue. If you're telling a child a lie, if you say that God exists. Okay. Now what do we do? How do we determine what is the actual truth? Or do we accept that the truth that might be unknowable to a certain extent, and we have to live with other people who don't believe the same quote unquote truths that we do, which is the better option to take. In terms of that, I don't know. I don't know that libertarianism, which is a, which might be what you kind of are describing somewhat. A little bit of, a little bit more libertarian, at least than I would be, perhaps, is, is appealing in some way. But when you allow, again, when you allow one evil, evil grows and you'll notice that it is definitely growing. When you allow people to take an option, more of them will indeed take that option. You are correct about that. Yeah. And, and they, and they go further and further with it, too. Some do, not all, obviously. Are they getting gayer? Are the gays getting gayer? Is it like, are you acting, are you, are you really acting like the, the, the LGBT agenda is just satisfied just with gay marriage, so-called gay marriage? Oh, I know. There's more and further and further. And then they're talking about, they're talking about maps next. Let's leave that. They're not, they're not. Come on. Hold on. That, that is just untrue. Well, what did I see in Salon? What did you, are you asking me what you saw in Salon? Right. I mean, there are, how did I hear about maps if, if nobody's talking about maps? I'd never heard of maps before. Is that just a, is that a Psyop from the, from the far right or something? Right. I got Psyop to believe in that. Some people believe in the maps thing. I mean, I, I think that pedophiles exist. It doesn't mean that I endorse it. Like, like you can talk about crimes. You can talk about bad things and know what those bad things are. That's perfectly fine, isn't it? I mean, I'm confused as to like, yeah, I'm confused as to like what your issue was. That there is, there is an ever, there is an ever encroaching and expanding agenda and, and malice towards truth against the truth. But we've never, my kind of opening statement like pointed out, like I also went to find the truth, but it seems like your truth is just circular. It's wrong to be gay because it's wrong to be gay because everyone knows it. Well, obviously everyone doesn't know it anymore. 71% of America doesn't know it. Right. Many people forget, many people forget the truth that they knew, that they knew or they rationalized out of it. Would you tell all of those people that they've been tricked? What's that? Would you say to all 71% of Americans who support same sex marriage that they've been tricked? Yeah, I would call them brainwashed in some form. Yeah. Okay. Would you say that most, that the crowd is generally right? The crowd. If we take like statistics. The crowd, the majority. Would you say that the majority will arrive at the truth? The truth, probably not, but then don't make appeals to the majority. Don't make appeals to everybody. You're the one making appeals to it. No, I'm just saying like. I'm saying everybody. I'm drawing like this distinction. Like if you say, if your reasoning is, everybody knows it's wrong, but we check and know everybody doesn't know it's wrong, well, then you can't just make your arguments. Everyone knows it's wrong because obviously that is itself untrue. You are saying something that is untrue. Because the majority, the majority could think a lot of different wrong things. The majority at one time thought that gay marriage was not okay and they were wrong then and they're right now. So I wouldn't make the appeal to that. I'm going to continue to make the appeal to that because I think even you can relate to this. Even you can relate to this. There have been times where you have the truth, some simple truth staring you in the face and you don't see it and then it comes to you and then you realize, oh, I knew that already. How did I forget that or something? There are many times that people forget or are rationalized out of the truth. Do you think that you might ever one day be convinced? Do you relate to that? Of course, I've been wrong a lot. So do you apply that to yourself? And there has been something that you knew but forgot or you just, you can play with it. There was a time where I didn't support trans people. I thought, nah, you just got to deal with what you got. No, come on. I'm talking about a real thing. I am talking about a real thing. I'm talking about an example of, go ahead and make your point. I thought men could only be men. When women could only be women, I thought trans people were delusional and then I did research. I learned more about it. I had my preconceived notions questioned and they had better data. They had better arguments. They had better rationale for why they ought to be accepted. Now, a full-throttle trans supporter, I get changed my opinion. I was, a truth was staring me in the face and it finally hit. And that's why I think the way I do now. Now, go ahead. I call that a rationalization. It is rationalization. Yeah, there are many intellectuals, which is the same thing as intellect and emotions are both part of that imagination thing that you want to stay out of, like putting yourself in other shoes and stuff like that. These are tricks of the mind to convince you that wrong is right. Intellect is a trick to the mind? Yeah. When you get into like, kind of like the knowledge is poison thing. All that knowledge poisoned you into accepting wrong is right. Apparently. Apparently. I'm assuming that I don't know exactly what you mean by accepting this trans... Oh, yeah. I just looked at a ton of studies. I have a document with, I think it's up to 55, 60 studies on various trans issues. And those people don't have preconceived notions of trying to make something be right. Well, they could. Absolutely. Because I've heard... However, however, I mean, there are, you know, scientists are human. That's why you do a lot of it. You have a lot of inquiry. You get a lot of knowledge. You have to have a lot of intellects run around. And then that is how we find the truth. If you just decide, and then don't investigate further, you'll never find the truth. There is a lot of politics involved in this stuff. And a lot of... I'm not saying anything in particular about whatever studies specifically that you've read or anything like that. I'm just pointing out that scientists and science, like you said, they are human and they need funding. And there's a lot of political motivations. And these are very politically charged issues and ideologically charged issues. There has been... I don't know exactly what I was going to say. How do you come to your conclusions? How do you know what's true? How do you personally? How do you know what's true? I look at it and see if it rings true or not. I look at the people who are telling me something. If they're telling me a story, I read it. I read what they're telling me or listen to what they're telling me and look at them. And I can... Sometimes I can tell what the truth is and sometimes I cannot. So truth is kind of like porn. You know when you see it, right? I'm not always... You don't always know the truth. Well, yeah, I agree. That is a... For a lot of things, that's what we have to do. If you're listening to someone's story about what they did yesterday, you kind of just got to take it on faith. But for important things, big things, we have a method if we're going deeper than that. It's called the scientific method. It's called empiricism. If we have a deeper... We have a method for finding a deeper option to look for that truth. Is it reproducible? Does it happen over and over? Let's put them in different scenarios. Let's change some variables. Let's get some funding to do a bunch of research and see what the actual truth is. That sounds like knowledge. That sounds like end-to-life, but it sounds like you would rather just stick with... Nah, truth is, I don't want to see it. Well, in the case of, let's say, this trans stuff that you've looked into, and that's what convinced you that this trans thing is something to go along with, I don't know what study could exist that would make it seem right to me. What made it seem right to you? The vast overwhelming preponderance of the evidence suggests that when... Two things, when trans people are accepted as a gender they identify with, they are happier, they are more productive lives, have fewer problems related to like drugs, suicidal ideation, abuse, they live a better life that way, and when they have access to gender-affirming care, same thing kind of rings true. They have better lives. They have better outcomes than if they were forced to live in a body that they just cannot stand. And there's a lot of science into looking into why that might be. It's not like this spiritual demon that has infested them. It's like it's a lot of like, we're still learning out the details of it, but there's enough chromosomal evidence and enough evolutionary biology to look at why this might be a case. So that kind of convinced me. It makes sense to me. Now, my worldview will allow for me to be wrong if I'm persuaded with enough evidence, with enough rationale. I'm happy to be wrong because once again, I am an idiot. I've demonstrated that I'm an idiot way too many times in my life for me to reject that truth. However, if I were to just say, trans people are good, oh, it just feels like trans people are who they say they are. That's kind of vulnerable. It's kind of like, that's not a very good justification. I wouldn't use that. No, I wouldn't. This is how you took it. I say that that's, this reminds me, I believe on modern day debate, I discussed gay adoptions with Hunter Avalon and he cited studies that I haven't seen either. And I haven't seen the studies that you've looked at. And I don't know if I would be able to be capable of perceiving them, but maybe I comprehended them. You know, maybe I could. Yeah, for the vast majority of people, the abstracts are fine. The vast majority of people, abstracts are all you need. What I realized is after talking with Hunter about the, he said that the adoptive children of the gays do just as well or better than I assume he was talking about the adoptive children of the straights. I think that what's going on is you're comparing, for one, it's kind of a short term, it's talking about the physical and yeah, the physical is important. It's talking about the feeling, sense of well-being, which can be important, but can also be deceiving. And it's also, what I didn't think to mention to him was that you're comparing an evil situation with an evil situation. People, by and large, I say are not decent. They don't have love. And so when somebody is different or awry or whatever, a freak, if you will, if you'll forgive my saying that, everybody, then people aren't going to know how to show love to that person. And that person himself or herself also has no love or confidence within. So how would you measure love? So they need an outer thing to feel better. If that's the variable that we're talking about, love. But my point... How would you measure love? No, but my point is, I'll answer that in a second, maybe if I can even answer that. I don't know. But my point is, you're comparing an evil situation, the so-called trans who's forced to stay in the closet or not be trapped in the body. I thought you were talking about a gay adoption. Same thing. The one evil is adopted by fallen state, quote-unquote gay adoptive parents. The other evil is fallen state straight, so-called straight adoptive parents. Same thing with the trans genders. It's bad for kids to be adopted. Well, I mean, it's bad to be subject to the evils of your parents, be they adoptive or otherwise, so-called gay or otherwise. You're comparing bad situations. Where is the evil in, let's say a kid lost his parents in a car accident, and the kid obviously has to be adopted. How is that an evil situation? That's not evil for them to be adopted. I'm saying that people are evil, and people are evil to their kids, their own kids, and people are perhaps even more evil to people who are adoptive kids, whom they aren't their own. Perhaps. Well, you'd have to like that. Maybe. I don't know. But that's beside the point, but people are evil. No, the point was how, what would convince you that children who are adopted into gay families are better or as good as children who are born into straight families? Because we could make that comparison as well. Just, that would be an extra valuable to consider, but what would convince you that it's okay, or do you just intrinsically know that it's evil? Yeah, I don't think I could be convinced. I don't think I would ever accept it. I'm one of those people who, if I have a sense about something, I'm not going to be convinced by people who are trying to convince me, and be they scientists or otherwise. Would you say you're an incurious person? I am. I think I'm a little curious. I would look at the studies maybe. You might be, you know, but I wouldn't look with the mind like, ooh, I wonder if this is right or wrong. Like, I wouldn't really, honestly, I don't think it was necessarily moral to do that experiment on the transgenders with this study or do with that experiment with the kids with this study. Because it's a good thing. It's a good thing. Other people did think it was good because the studies turned out to have helped them a lot. They helped like these kids are doing just fine, based on the measurements that we do have. I'm going to ask you. In fact, I want to ask you. Which is limited. We all grant that that's very limited based on the measurements that we have. I know, but I'm not convinced that you give too much credence to any measurement because you've already decided that it's evil. But how would we measure? How would we have like an objective? How would we have like a, what would your standard be for what we should be measuring in the well-being of kids? That is a good question. And I don't know what or how you would measure it because people aren't, not really honest about themselves. Even the Christians are faking it by and large. It's why so many people are turning away from it. So it is difficult to measure right and wrong. I agree, but we can still measure good and we can still measure good outcomes and bad outcomes. We could decide intersubjectively. We all agree that might not be objective reasoning or objective morality, but as soon as we have, we can say that it's better for a kid to self-report that they are happy than for them to self-report that they are sad. I think that's a reasonable assumption. Yeah, it's a reasonable thing. If you had to choose one, you'd choose happy. You can look at objective measures like what is their health like? You can take a lot of health measurements to see what that would entail. Stress levels, cortisol levels and all that fun stuff. If you wanted to, I'm not sure if that would be a little too invasive for studies like that, but it's something you could do. You could look at income. You could look at the safety of their neighborhood and using a lot of statistics. There's a lot of ways you can make a rough guess at it. And scientists, a good thing about scientists is that they never say, this is the final truth. We're never done. And that's what the cool thing is about my ideology. We're never done. I don't think we sure do. The science is saddled. Well, the science has to be good enough. The science has never settled. I actually hate that term. The science has never settled, but sometimes it has to be good enough to go. I'm quoting Obama about the climate change thing, which I don't want to derail the conversation, but anyway. Yeah. So what else is there? You got any questions for me? Nothing doing all the interrogating? Yeah. Okay. You don't seem to accept that there is a whole lot of malice or I don't. You haven't really acknowledged it anyway that I can tell the whole lot of malice on the side of the radical LGBTs, the radical anti-racists, the radical feminists, if you will, there's I think most women. I can accept that. I can accept that a lot of like marginalized people are very angry in very unproductive ways. And it could actually be called malice. Absolutely. It's not just it's not. However, go ahead. The ideas are still independent of bad people who hold them. I accept that. You would agree that Christianity isn't ruined if there are bad Christians. So you can still have the ideas. You can still have your ideas. And I still have my ideas. Okay. And then it's not just the marginalized. It is the there is a whole lot in the establishment, if you will, you know, elected people and people who are appointed and people who are running companies. I call them commie capitalists because it's like a whole. It's kind of using capitalism and using the government to work against the people who are for morals. And, you know, it's against, like I said, the, well, anyway, you know, they are working for morals. I mean, I think, I think it's a little bit fake, but I do think we're a corporation. Oh, yeah. What I was about to say, like the pride stuff, I think a lot, you know, it's rainbow capitalism, a little bit of its fake, but that's a good moral to have. I mean, it's all, I say it's all fake. But now, well, I mean, there's some things there, but it's still that's good morals. I'm glad when politicians like, I'm glad when they say that I'm, they support my marriage and they think that I'm allowed to live that kind of lifestyle. I'm glad that when politicians embrace that, that we do have a diverse population and we shouldn't be afraid of that because it's very weak minded. We should embrace that and try to make it work. That's the hard thing to do. That's, that is the work that we need to put in to be the best society possible. I approve that. I think that's moral. Now, of course, that's my morals. But you know, you mentioned this diverse society and trying to make it work. There is not an honest, I say that there is not an honest appeal to true unity with these people. You mentioned in your opening statement, and you mentioned the phrase an honest portrayal of our history. And it makes me chuckle because we have what I consider to be very dishonest portrayals of our history now. Like what? And, and, and attempt, such as the, this hyping of the racism stuff. And you, you may accuse me of downplaying it. And I, I accept that. But there's a, come on this. I mean, the, I mean, you said the team project, which, I mean, you said that slavery wasn't racist. I mean, I think a lot of people, I'm, I'm doing, hey, man, I'm weak too. I'm making the appeals. I think most people would say, wait, slavery is not racist. Come on. Right. But that's not, that's. That's not disputing the facts of as a slavery. That's just a judgment like racism. Is the accusation of racism, kind of like the accusation of perversion is a judgment about the slavery. So that's, I'm not disputing. How, how bad are we down with the slavery points and what like moral condemnation, like what level of moral condemnation are we allowed to call slavery before it gets too far in your opinion? So let's say that the slave owners are worse people than we are today. But all of them, then they're all to be condemned. You know what, actually, from like a critical race theory standpoint, they wouldn't say that. They would say they would focus on systems at the time. That was considered normal. These were the norms at the time. And you can't judge individuals for living in the norms set at their time. They could say that the act was evil. They could say rightfully. No, they could say rightfully that the effects of slavery and how they persisted through reconstruction, how they persisted through Jim Crow, they could point like effect by effect causality by causality. Why these things still have impacts today without saying these are evil people because we're looking at systems and people are part of systems. But when you're looking at systems, you can't atomize it to an individual for the purposes of moral condemnation. Should look up some CRT. It's cool stuff. But they evidently, those people wouldn't be for these BLM types and Antifa types and politicians tearing down the monuments and rhinos who are taking down the monuments, the Confederate hero American monuments. They can't be Confederate American heroes. It's a contradiction. It's like comic capitalism as a contradiction. No, it comic capitalism is not a contradiction. Everybody knows who that American is a contradiction. No, it's not because we fought a war to make them stay American. Yeah. So they are American. They decided that they were Americans. They are you as a... What would they be celebrated for? Honor and things like that. Should we celebrate like... I mean, honor is a pretty weird concept that we should celebrate. Like all of our enemies, like they all had honor. They were all brave. But the Confederates are not our enemies. They are our brothers. They are brothers who fought to keep slavery who tried to destroy our country. To ruin our... No, they didn't want to destroy. They wanted to leave. They wanted to leave? Yeah, they wanted to split our country enough. Yeah, but they should... So that they could keep slaves. Constitutionally, constitutionally, they were right because they have the right to secede. All the constitution just a piece of paper doesn't tell you what's right or wrong, does it? So is your marriage? But anyway... Oh, I got you there. No. You did get me. But my point is, where is all this unity talk? And you know this... You're portraying an objective. Let's not blame the people for how they are. But there is a tearing down of... Great, great men. And you can dispute that they were great or not or whatever, but there was a push to... You think Hitler was a great man? I don't know. I'm not into that. Do you under... But could you understand why, even though he had a lot of power? Maybe he had a form of... I don't know, honor. You can see why maybe it would be bad to put a statue up to venerate him, right? You can agree with that, right? Yeah, I mean... So do you think... Okay, you can agree. So it's weird to have statues venerating soldiers who fought and killed Americans who decided to start a war to kill Americans regardless of who they were. They were Americans. They sort of were, yeah. They didn't start the war? Absolutely did. And they did. Wait a minute. And they did to make sure that Black people, not in a racist way, but they made sure that Black people were enslaved, like still were enslaved. I think it's weird to venerate those people. But that your fellow Americans are venerating those people. Why would you tear down the statues that are already there? It's not like we're building news. Well, now... Well, we actually did build new statues at a couple of key points in American history. Yeah, it was decades later. Granted, it was decades later. Decades later, I know. In like the 20s and stuff, like when Black people wanted to vote, and then like... I know. A little bit later, in like the Civil Rights Era, people were like... It was a risk, because it was an obvious response. Like if you were honest about it, it's a response to Black people wanting... Yeah, so it's a response to Black people wanting equal rights. That's why they're... I don't give a shit about it. You're casting it in ways that are... True. And anyway, are you pretending that these are decent people who are tearing down these monuments? I think, yeah. I think if you fight evil, you're a decent person. No, but they're the ones... They're fighting quote-unquote evil with evil. And most of these people are not evil. Like General Robert E. Lee's not an evil man. And... How do you know? Well, by all accounts, he was an honorable man who treated people well. I know that in wartime, it was kind of rough, and he let his soldiers... Do you think... Do you think enslaving people is treating them well? You can treat your slaves well. If you are a slave master, you should treat your slaves well. Oh, okay. But... Yeah, I mean, it's... I'll just let that hang for a second. You can let it hang for a second, but you admitted that that's not a judgment to have upon a person, and we ourselves, we have evils happening today that are, I say, much worse than slavery. Like, you know, like abortion or pretending the spiritual slavery of the LGBT stuff and all that stuff. Hell, it was so good faith for so long. The spiritual slavery. Well, I mean, come on, it is... You think I'm saying that in bad faith? No, no, no. No, I grant you that. I grant you that. I agree that you believe that. I would not want to either be a slave to a person nor would I want to own a slave. Like, I don't even want to own a dog. And I would not want to to have anybody else's vices. Yeah, I mean, buying her plenty or whatever, you know? Yeah, I mean, but what I have is an advice. It's actually awesome. I mean, you're young. You're enjoying it while you're young. I am. I don't know, whatever. Young. Young? Youngish. This may be a good time to go into the Q&A if you guys are ready for it. I think that that's... If you have any questions, Mohawk, go ahead. I didn't want to interrupt your interrogation. No, no, I think that I think I've made all of my points in an honest portrayal of our history, the unnatural and knowing of what's right, bending the truth to make our view. I think that we can accuse each other of doing that, you know, the left and the right. I think I'm done. Thank you. Amazing. Well, we're going to jump right into it, folks. Want to remind you, our guests are linked in the description. So if you would like to learn more about the views of Jengles or Haik, their links are waiting for you in the description box right now. That includes at the podcast, as all of our debates end up on the podcast within 24 hours of the debate being live. You can also find Jengles and Haik's links there in the description box for the podcast episode. So we're going to jump into this Q&A and want to say we do appreciate our guests. They are the lifeblood of the channel. They make it fun. And so thanks for your questions. You guys make it fun as well. With your questions, this one coming in from Mango Tea says James Haik, invite me on your show. Let's discuss manhood in the state of humanity. Thank you. Thank you, Mango Tea. You got to watch out for that guy. I don't know about that guy. I know I've seen him a couple of times on your show and it's, I appreciate the request, Mango Tea. And thank you for supporting modern day debate. That's cool. Thank you. Guy with a good, or a guy with the hair says, if empathy is exclusively a word only existing for liberals, please explain why psychopathy is defined as a person that has a lack of empathy. By your logic, every conservative is a psychopath. First of all, I didn't say that empathy is exclusively for the liberals, but I did say it is a liberal word. I don't know if I would say it's exclusively for the liberals, but it is used for the liberals. It's like a false imitation of love. And liberals came up with the term psychopath. No, I don't, I'm playing around a little bit, but that's all the good words. We have the best words. Yeah, Trump has good words. Coming in from JS Urban Adventure says, Happy Pride Month, Jengles. This one coming in. Thank you very much. By the way, for anyone out there, if you think Jengles is a stupid name, it is. You can call me Justin. You got it. Do you go by Justin? Or should I be calling you Justin? It's fine. I like Jengles. Okay. You know why I picked Jengles? No. You can't make it sound dumber. You can't make fun of my name. What are you going to do? Call me Jengles. I think it's amazing. Yeah. You think it's amazing? Well, thank you. You can call me Justin if you want. Jengles Urban Adventure strikes again, says, I hope you'll celebrate White History Month in July. Indeed. Isn't every month like White History Months? No. Most months are anti-white history. That's why people are so quick to smear whites and they think that they know all the negative things or a bunch of negative things. This one coming in from folks, we do have, in case you are like, hey, I don't like the fact that YouTube takes 30% of the Super Chat because I don't like Google. I don't really stand for what they stand for. We, in our description box, do have links for, you could say, handles for our Venmo and our PayPal in case you want to send a Super Chat that way. These are coming in from PayPal. Thanks very much. Pavel says, The Hague Report, The Hague Report, la, la, la, la. Hey, on Josh. Right now, did he give you instructions to say it like that? Or did you just know? I just knew. It's a great song. Did you know you recognized it too? You've been watching Jesse Lee Peterson. Okay. It's like coming up from Josh. Comment or question for Jengles. They say, Sodomy isn't sex, though. They say, did you get married for government benefits that come with marriage, such as taxes and stuff? Can I tell you something very true? I don't know. I don't actually know what all the benefits of marriage are. All I know is I love my husband. And Sodomy, I don't know if it's sex or not. All I care is, they're mine. Could be sex. Might not be sex. Still doing it. Still feels great. I do like it that I don't have to file my taxes because my husband does it. I do like that a lot. I might make a lot of sacrifices in my life to not do taxes again. So we'll toss up on that. You got it. And this is coming in from, do appreciate your question as well. Brent and Langell. All right. Hey, cute old buddy. Brent says, regarding feeling nothing on 9-11, look up, and quotes, avoidant attachment styles. People who have this psychology can turn off their emotions as a defense mechanism. Okay. Thank you, Brent and Langell. Nice to hear from you, man. You got it. And this one coming in from, do appreciate your question as well. Mango tea says, jangles. Okay. I don't know what that means. Nugget man says, jangles. So you are eating. Let's see. Gosh. They asked if you know why. This one coming out. Nugget man, seriously. Can you put it in chat and I'll just respond to it? You don't have to say it. This is too gross. It's not like per se insulting. It's just about your bedroom habits. We're going to come, maybe we'll come back to that one. I can actually answer a lot of things. You know the main thing we do in the bedroom? No. Sleep. Gotcha. 99% of what we do is sleep. This one coming in from dark bags says, hey Hank, may you please say, hi Baba. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. This one coming in from Mark Reed says, great job from jangles, pointing out the hypocrisy of hake's position. Well done, mate. Right on jangles. This one coming in from mango tea says, if being who you are is normal jangles, if every person was like you, humanity would not exist. And therefore your lifestyle is based on desires. Reminds me of old Kantian ethics argument. Yeah, well two things on that. If everyone was gay, it wouldn't be normal. But the second thing is, I'm pretty sure we have the technology to keep humanity going. Do you know how to work a turkey baster? It's really all the technology you need. We'd figure it out. This one coming in from Pineapple. Everyone would be dressed better. Pineapple Platymas says, which America do you both want, one where we're all united with our fellow citizens, or one where we're all united against any foreign countries? First one, easy. I don't want to be united against foreign countries. Those are our brothers as well. I mean, don't you love everybody? Aren't we all God's children? Just because you're born on a different patch of dirt doesn't mean you got to be like my enemy, right? Yeah, yeah. Most of America's main enemies are within. You got it. And thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from Nuggetman. Didn't you talk at some point about doing the hot Carl stuff jangles? That's what their question was. They said, are you doing the hot Carl stuff? We'll just put it that way. I'm going to look. I'm going to look it up real quick. You don't know what a hot Carl is. The hot Carl. No, OK. They say, I just saw like the picture of like that one character from Jimmy Neutronal buff popped up. Is that what a hot Carl is? Don't Google it. They say, are you they say in their words, are you consuming some sort of excrement to be rebellious to your Christian parents and conservative people in general? Do I eat the poo poo? It's a question for the ages. The answer is no, that is. Brent Legle is your question. That's I don't, I don't need to, I don't need to be one to judge. Brent Legle says knowledge puffeth up quote unquote refers to Dunning Kruger. People with a little of it, namely a little knowledge, assume they know more than they do. If you keep learning, you move past it. You do pretty demonstrated. There's there's some truth to that. But even still, people with great learning, if you don't have love, it doesn't mean anything. You got it. And thank you very much. Appreciate your question coming in from Brent and strikes again says quote. Most love is fake unquote. You're breaking my heart, Hank. That's OK, man. Don't be heartbroken. Man up. Brent and Legle says accepting wrong as right quote unquote is a begging the question. Fallacy Hake, you have to assume it's wrong. A priori to say it's wrong. It's just circular reasoning on your part. Well, I'm making an assertion without proving stuff because some stuff you just can't. I don't know if you can prove some of this stuff. Well, it certainly may not. That's pretty important. We're organizing our society. It shouldn't just be guesswork, right? Should be something deeper than that. Right. But I don't think I'm guessing. I don't think I'm some of some of stuff I do guess. But some stuff I wouldn't. Anyway, I think I'm coming in from Long Nights YouTube and thanks for your support says, how is slavery worse than abortion when they killed slaves and aborted babies? When slavery was abolished, they kept killing freed slaves and babies. Hake? The point of slavery is not to kill your slaves, man. It was slavery was not necessarily killing. There was, I'm sure, some killing going on and that was wrong. And there was some raping going on and that was wrong. There was some castrating and I disagree with that. But slavery is not inherently those things. But it is still wrong, right? It's not ideal, for sure. It's not ideal. Huh? Slavery is not ideal. It's not ideal. I don't know if you can call it wrong. Can you call gay sodomy wrong? Can you call that wrong? Confidently. Pretty confidently, man. Okay. It just seems wrong, man. All right. I mean, as a kid, I did think slavery was wrong. So maybe I was right or as a kid, but abortion is always killing a baby or whatever. Just letting that stay out there. Slavery, not ideal. Right. This one coming in from Linyan Chin says, intellect is the sympathetic part of the mind. The regurgitate aspects of the psyche. Its data is indeed bound by and flows through chains of emotion. I think that's interesting. And yeah, I'm a big believer in empiricism. We can only experience the world. And so everything is just based on our own perceptions, including the logical connections between what we make with those perceptions. So we live perfectly good lives with that knowledge. It's almost makes it more exciting. Like we can't know the absolute truth. The best we can do is get as close as possible. That's awesome. There's always more to go. Always more to learn. Always a way to get better. I think that's beautiful in a way. I think it's a lot more exciting and a lot more poetic, if you want a word for it, than just deciding what the truth is and deciding what good and just deciding what good is based on your first gut instinct. So I can accept that. But you have a false confidence about your way of life, man. Or at least you're projecting like a flippant. I am always projecting myself as being flippant. I'm always open to being proven wrong. It's just every time someone has tried, it has been, and this is a moral, emotional word, laughable. I get that. Right. That's why you're more serious with yourself, within yourself. I've been very serious. I actually struggled with my sexuality for a couple of years. A lot of people do. When you live in a place, yeah. I understand that. I know when you live, but I struggled and then I came out the other side as a victor. Now it feels, now I feel like less of a man. I feel like I have less integrity when I don't come out. You have to come out to every new person that doesn't know. And I feel gross. I feel weak when I keep that hidden. I'm proud of having this wonderful husband. This is like the best part of my life. I'm proud of that. I feel ashamed to hide that. So that's where my head is flipped. Because, and I think I'm a better man because of it. I get where you're coming from. This one coming in from R13 says, Hey, was black people, were black people wrong for marching, protesting and boycotting in the 50s and 60s while trying to get equal rights? Sometimes they were wrong and sometimes they were right. I think there were very fine people on both sides and wrong people on both sides, on many sides. You got it. There's a right way to go about things. You got it. Thank you very much for this question. From JS Urban Adventure says, children adopted into those families are statistically more likely to suffer from psychologically negative outcomes such as being suicidal jangles. I'm assuming he's being parents of gay people and that is just not true. It is incorrect. The only study that is referenced is one that was specifically like designed to look like parents of gay people who divorced and then raised their kids. So there's another variable there called divorce. That's the only study that has proven negative qualities. And because it had this externality, it's garbage in terms of what we're able to apply to it. Now, you can look at that. That study still has merits. You just have to apply it. It has to be valid in terms of it has to be measuring what it says it's measuring or if you'd use that study. The vast, again, the vast preponderance of evidence shows no, that is not true. They do fine. Yeah, they do just fine. I have a suggestion. I might be willing to read one or two of y'all's studies. To give you my honest thoughts on them later at a later time. Sure. Hunter can provide you with all his data for gay adoption. I can provide you with my document for trans acceptance. Nice. How's that? Cool. You got it, Anne. Thank you very much for your question coming up. For Millenia and Chin says, Intellect is governed by intention, aka desire, which is emotion. Within one's intention is found their sense of I or individuation, which renders context, namely, meaning to share their regurgitation of intellect. Nicely read. Sure. I like how you read those. You read those like with your best intent. With intent, with desires, how you read those. Like with the best comprehension, because Linian Chin sometimes is deep, although it's unusual wording. Anyway. Very deep. Anne, Guy with the hair says, Can Haik explain the logical and reasonable path he used to come to the knowledge that knowledge itself is poison? I've seen it happen in myself. I've seen it happen in others. That you that you start to think you know something. You may bash others over the head with it. You get pridefully and it's it's it can be quite poisonous. You got it, Linian. I'm curious on that. Like you realize that it's poisonous. Wouldn't that take more knowledge? Like you thought you knew something and then you realize that it's wrong. Doesn't that take more knowledge? Isn't that getting over the hump in the Dunning Kruger effects? You got to get more. Yeah. But that's when that's when you that's more like a realization. And then you you don't hold on to that. And you it kind of sounds like you're advocating for like, no, whatever you get first stop there. No, that's where you want to be. Not necessarily. I mean, sometimes you know and you don't need to keep on. OK, that sounds that sounds pretty similar to what I said, but I know about it. But anyway, yeah, you got it. And thank you very much for your question. This one coming in from Linian Chen strikes again. He says to be intelligent is not the same as being intellectual, a.k.a. impulsive. So they're saying it sounds like being intelligent is OK so far, but it's that intellectual being intellectual is impulsive or bad. Lack of impulse control leaves one lost in spiraling delusion that reflects emotional constipation like this jangles fellow. Wow, I like that point. Do you want to respond to that jangle? So I don't want. I'll say like impulse control. Marriage is a pretty long term commitment. It wasn't an impulse. We were engaged for like. Oh, 40 years. Jesus Christ, we're engaged for 40 years. By the way, while we use we used to watch. Engage, but watch just for anyone curious out there. No, that was like not impulse control. I know I kind of agree. There's like impulse control can be bad. Like I do think that that can be a vice, a vehicle for vices that can be harmful, but can also be a vehicle for like spontaneously trying new things like impulse. You have to control impulses wisely enough to like not fall into traps of a positive feedback loop of self harm, for example. But also you should allow for some impulse to like experience what there is with the world to get out of your comfort zone. Sometimes that can be an impulse. People are wired differently. What I got out of this was kind of the and I don't necessarily think of you when I when I heard this this super chat from Leigh Enchin, but the difference between intelligence and intellect, where the intellect is more impulsive and emotional. You'll notice that when you're trying to tell the truth to a person who just is not open to it, such as like dealing with a woman I might think of sometimes they will say, but aren't you guilty of that too? Or they will say, but what if but what about rather than be calm, be quiet and consider the truth of what you're saying? Consider the truth of what's being said. Okay, I would just encourage whoever that was to like not mistake a lack of impulse control with having a quick response. So you will agree that those are not the same thing. You can have a quick response. There's a there's a way of being open to the truth. And and then there is an argumentative way of being. Okay, are you always trying? Yeah, I think so. You got it. Hey, this is coming in from got more questions. But I want to remind you folks, our guests are linked in the description. That includes jangles and Hake. If you want to learn more about their views, those links are waiting right now. This link or this question coming in from Woody Woodpecker says happy pride, Hake. Happiness and pride are both lies. Thank you though. I wish you well. I don't care if they're lies. I want you to wish me a happy pride. By the way, jangles, you have a base setup. Your lighting and stuff. Yeah. Tremendous. What the secret is I don't want to clean my desk. And so I just keep things. I get the bokeh effect on. So everything's out of focus. And then just get like a cheap like $5 LED light to make it seem like I have my shit together. I like that. Genius. It's all perception, you know. You're right. Linya and Chen says, guy with a good hair. I'm answering your question to Lord good hair. Inner stillness is the catalyst of discernment. Knowledge without sapience is power without purpose. Be still and know all is well. Have we shifted roles? Are they debating in the comments? Are we going to do color commentary on now the new debate forming in the comments? I don't know if I should control my impulses to jump on that or not. Oh, you're well. This is a feisty one from the comments. Nine kid nine tails cosmic fox. Hope you're doing well. And your criticism is always fair game where we're like for real folks. We are open if you want to criticize the channel. I mean, you know, you don't have to go nuts with it. But we do want to let you know we don't want you to ever feel like you're walking on eggshells. So we're going to humor you nine tails says James, why do you keep lying to your audience by calling destiny a leftist? I I thought he was a leftist. That was yeah. So I actually sincerely believe that I could be wrong about that. I maybe liberal would technically be a little bit more appropriate. But I think he's at least left of center. But nowadays, the spectrum is moving. So I interesting perspective. This one coming in from guy with the hair says, you say that you can treat your slaves well. If you're a slave master under that logic, would you like to be Jangle's slave? Not particularly. I don't really want to be a slave. No, but yeah, it's in the Bible. It's a fact that you can slaves obey your earthly masters and masters treat your slaves well because you're a slave of Christ. And anyway, it is a fact that you're free in the Bible. You got it. Thank you very much for this one coming in from Zanos. Carthage says, what are the debaters opinions on turtles? Not like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, but just turtles. I'm for him. Thank you. Oh, just to Jangle's, right? OK. No, that's for you, too. Oh, OK. I had turtles and I had to release them. Too much responsibility. I didn't like cleaning the stuff. So I never knew that you did. That sounds fun. This one from Euphoria M says, Hick, get away from your whiteness. You're not a victim. Good advice. Thank you. This one coming in from Mango Tea says, why Jesse Lee Peterson? Does Jesse Lee Peterson love women? Mama Mia. Yes, he loves women. It's true. This one coming in from, do you appreciate it? Euphoria M says, Hick, are you familiar with Roy Masters' Silent Prayer? Yeah, he has like a B still and no thing. Yep. You got it. This one coming in from Aravind. Muriel says, I'd like to ask Hick, what he bases his morality on. Is it religion or his intuition? Perhaps a little of both. You got it. Hey, I got to ask a question. Go ahead. So what are some of like God's laws that you wish were not true? Oh, man. Man, I don't know if I don't know if I more wish that if I wish anything, which I think I do, I think I wish that I were more in line with them, really. So you're loving him first and loving the neighbor. So you would not like, there's no thing that you wish wasn't true. You just wish that you were better at following God's law. If you were to rattle off some, you might catch me on something. But I, but as far as like, is the two main commandments of loving him first and loving your neighbor and your enemy. I only wish different about how I am, not how he set things. I'm always concerned when people tell me like what God thinks. It always coincidentally seems to line up with what they think. So I have the suspicion. True. Yeah, I have the suspicion that people are just justifying their own beliefs by saying that a higher power said them and a higher power that cannot be proven or disproven. So it's just like a get out of having to reason free card. I get you on that. I get you. Juicy. It's a legitimate complaint, I think. And out of curiosity, well, we've got you guys here. People would love to hear your opinion. I know I would. This is a juicy, interesting question. Who do you think is going to get both the Democratic nomination for the presidential run in 2024, as well as the Republican nomination? For me, I don't have no idea in terms of the Democrat. Trump, if he runs, I think he will get the nomination. And I don't know. If he doesn't run, I don't know if DeSantis will run, but there's nobody else who's even close to either of those guys. Trump is far above DeSantis in my mind still. Oddly enough, I have not been keeping up with Democratic primaries for president in 2024 either, but I kind of agree with him. If Trump runs, he's probably going to get it. And if not, I think DeSantis would be number two there, if I had to guess. What about on the Democratic side? There's nobody. Is there anybody exciting jangles that you even want? I don't want someone exciting, man. I want someone sensible. Is there anybody boring that you would want? No, I haven't been keeping up with it. Interesting. You guys, are you not sure? Who's like, are you kind of like, how of course it's going to be fine? As far as Democrats go, like, what can you... Like, Trump came out of nowhere. I didn't see him coming until he came out in mid-2015 for 2016. I thought it was like, oh, Ted Cruz, maybe. I don't know. And then Trump came on the scene and he was like, okay, that's him. As far as Democrats go, there's certainly nobody from the Democrats that I want. Obviously. But even if you didn't like him, your assumption is Biden, right? Oh, oh, yeah. Fuck. I don't even know. The way he asked questions was like, fine, it's not going to be around 24. That's why I was like, whoa, who would replace Biden? I don't fucking know. Man, I mean... It's probably just going to be Biden, man. He seems so, he seems kind of out of it, but he may have that staying power that he can power through and fool the people again or something like that. Yeah, I assume it would be Biden just because it follows precedent. Like, what are the odds that he's going to say, like, all right, I had a good four years. I'm going to step down. I don't think you'd say that. I think he's going to keep going. In terms of, it's interesting to predict whether or not you think Trump will. Like, what's the probability? What do you guys think is the probability that the country is going to light on fire again and that Trump is going to run? I hope we're all tired, but then I don't know. By light on fire, I don't mean, like, literally, I just mean... I know, I know, like, excitement. I think that, I don't know, it's hard to get as excited for the sequel as you were for the, like, I don't know. I hope we're all tired. Is Biden going to be 80... Biden's not going to be, oh, he'll be 82 at the end of his term? He'll both be, I'll say it, too old. Yeah, I have no opinion. I don't, I support Trump in whatever he wants to do. If he doesn't want to run, I totally support that because he did a great job with what he did. I suspect, personally, and the prediction mark could say this, which is why I say it. I suspect it's going to be Biden versus Trump part two. And it's juicy. It's interesting. It is. It's also part of the interesting, for me, is, like, it's interesting what you guys think might happen if DeSantis... It sounds like you guys think, like, ah, if DeSantis and Trump are going to run, Trump will probably get the nomination. And then you think that DeSantis will be cooperative with the party and not threaten to run third... Yeah, there's no way he's going to threaten to run third party. Yeah, I don't see him and Trump not necessarily getting along. I know that they have thrown little darts here and there, but I don't think they are so diametrically opposed to each other. I don't see that at all. But I... It is kind of interesting because I don't know that Pence would be the running mate. And I wonder if, well, I suppose you would keep Kamala on. Actually, I want to ask one more question because you brought up DeSantis and it sort of led to our topic. Do you think it's appropriate to show children a man and a woman kissing in a cartoon? I, uh, I suppose so maybe. Is that sexual? It is a bit sexual. I don't really recommend it. So there's a form of sexuality? I never really liked seeing that as a kid. Maybe even to this day, necessarily. Yeah. Okay. It's wondering. Nice. This one coming in from RagePro. Thanks for your support of the channel. RagePro says, the Dems are running Joe again. Who else? Yeah, I think you're right. The only reason I'm not... Like the only reason I wouldn't say like, obviously he's going to be Biden because who would, you know, it'd be so out of precedent. But the prediction markets, like predict it, the only one that I actually follow is... They say that it's like a 38% chance last time I checked that Biden's actually going to be the nominee and which makes me think like, holy smokes, that's not normal. Usually it would be just because of precedent. Like I said, it would never be... I want to know like, what data they collect. Like, how do they make that decision? It's interesting. I'd be interested in seeing like the methodology behind that. Not saying, I'm not saying I'm just saying, that'd be interesting. How do they do that? It is. And the way predict it works is it's basically, it's a betting website. So it's just like a, almost like a sports book, you're betting on which side's going to win. And in this case, the scent, like because you can buy shares and the scents are usually like roughly equivalent with percentage like probabilities. And so Biden right now, if you want to buy a Biden share, it would be 38 cents. You know, if you want to buy a Biden shares for him winning the Democratic nomination. So these are all gamblers. So like it's not necessarily representative of the US. These are people who are interested in gambling, but like it's, you know, there's something they're generally right. I mean, he seems kind of out of it to be my take. It's oftentimes. What about Sleepy Joe, as I call it. And so while I'm curious, could it possibly be especially jangles? For some reason, I have a feeling you're not excited about this upcoming election, jangles. Do you think that if it is the likely Trump versus Biden part two, do you think that Trump could actually win when he when he lost last time? Like have things changed in America that much? I don't know what I hope we're sick of it. That's what I just hope that we have fatigue. Because, you know, Biden didn't, Biden did not excite anyone, but I think it's better to have like a milk toast. He hasn't done a whole lot than someone who's like causing like active harm, active division and active like there is so, I said about like opening statement, I care about truth a lot. As someone who has that much of a flippant disregard for the notion of truth, I'm glad is far, far outside. I'm glad that he got beat. It was like, it was like that, that hopeium came in, the sun came up on the horizon and shined on my face. And I smiled for the first time in four years. So I don't know, I hope not. I hope that Trump doesn't have a chance. I hope we're all fucking tired of it. That's how I felt when Trump got elected. That I was, finally we have a person who's telling the truth in a big way and not backing down rather than all these phony politicians. Well, there, there you go. Truth is, truth is what you feel. Juicy. Well, we're going to let our guests go. Want to say we are thankful for our guests and their links are in the description box, both here and in the podcast episode. You can learn more about their views by clicking on those links below. One last thank you. Jengles and Hake, it's been a true pleasure to have you here. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me back on. Pleasure was all mine and I'll be back in just a moment, folks, with some updates on upcoming debates. You don't want to miss it. So stick around for that post-credits scene. Crazy. My dear friends, I am very excited. Don't worry, I'm still here. I'm just loading up another Zoom window. As I've got to tell you, it has been so fun. You guys hosting this debate, it's always a blast. I really do enjoy it. You guys know this, but I want to say hello to you in the old live chat. Master Jim, glad to have you with us, as well as Euphoria M, Jeffrey, Rodrigo, Acheverea. I have to roll the R, right? Acheverea? We're glad you're here. Thanks for being with us. And Kimba94. Good to see you again. My dear friends, I've got to tell you, we're excited about some upcoming debates. You're kind of wondering, oh, what kind of upcoming debates do you mean? We had mentioned this weekend it is going to be a true slobberknocker, infrared returns, along with Jackson Hinkel, as they take on Destiny and Adam. It is going to be a tremendous debate. Let me just pull that up for you right now so that way you can see it. That's on screen right now. The bottom right, tankies versus leftists, namely, as I said, that's going to be on the war on Ukraine. So you don't want to miss that one, as well as, let me show you another one. If you like religion debates as well, as we found at Modern Day Debate, most people tend to like more than one topic, because you know our main three topics are science, religion, and politics. Most people are like, oh, I like political debates. Like, I'm here for this hate versus jangles debate, but you know, I also like religion debates or science debates. This one is going to be, is Islam true? I think that's what it was. Let me double check. Is it's actually going to be, I know it's not that already, I can tell, but I'm going to check on the title. It is, I know it's against apostate prophet and perfect Dawa. It's been a long day. They're going to debate atheism versus Islam. So that you don't, you don't want to miss it, you guys. It's going to be tremendous. It's going to be amazing. Now I've got to tell you, we have got some other upcoming debates. So let me show you these. In particular, I had told you, we have a controversial one next week, Vash versus Dr. Bogartis on whether or not trans women are women. You don't want to miss these debates. Hit that subscribe button if you haven't already. My dear friends, as we are excited about the future, modern day debate is just getting rolling. We're just getting started, you guys. We have a lot of big debates that we're trying to put together right now. A lot of projects in terms of in-person panels, for example, if you guys have ever seen middle ground from the Jubilee channel, have you? Let me know in the chat. I'm actually curious. I would guess you guys have probably run into it before. If you like debates, which you probably do because you're here, you probably have, you know, YouTube at some point has recommended that to you, I would guess. If that's the case, well, you have a good picture of what's to come because we are going to try to do our own middle ground debates slash panels. So it's going to be awesome. We're working on doing that right here in my hometown. And so, well, not hometown technically. But we are going to be working on that right here in good old Colorado. It is going to be amazing. And you don't want to miss it. Those are going to be, it's going to be a huge project. We're excited about that. And I think that's going to really refresh or you could say, keep things fresh at modern day debate. Want to say hello to Get The Down. I see you there in the old live chat. Good to have you with us as well as Mark Reed. Thanks for coming by as well as Captain Butt. Glad you're here. Sinfinity Love. Happy to have you here. Lord Dave Dyer. Thanks for being with us. Lord H Sizzle. Happy to have you with us. Lord Luca Music. Glad you're here. Colled Ahmad. Thanks for dropping in. As well as What Is Truth? Good to see you again. J S Urban Adventures. Happy to have you with us. Squirrel Wrestler. Happy to have you here. They met. Glad to have you with us. As well as Great Bowls of Fire. We're glad you are with us. Willie Powell. Glad to have you here. Billy Bob. Happy you're here. Jay Hunt. Says Amazing. I couldn't agree more. Glad to have you here, Jay. Colin Gaines. Glad you're with us. Says Thank You, James. Thank you. Colin, I appreciate that. Means a lot. As well as Uriel Giovanni. Happy to have you here. I like turtles. Glad to see you back. 33% Done. Says Well Done, James. Thank you. And thank you for your channel support. Seriously, I don't know if you guys knew. We do have channel memberships. We turned those on. It was maybe about less than a year ago. So it hasn't been over. You know, it's kind of a relatively new thing. We're excited about that in case you dig those. Willie Powell. Glad to have you here. Says Amazing. Haha, James. Thank you for being with us. We're glad to have you here. Danimal. Glad to have you here. Says Peace. All take care. Thanks, Danimal. Radical Coder. Glad you are with us. As well as General Maximus. Glad you're here. Evolved from Iraq, 1859. Thanks for dropping in. As well as Full Cannelly. Glad you are with us. Then this is an interesting one. I've never seen this username. It's just a dot for their name. So I want to say thanks so much for being with us. My dear friend, we're glad you're here. And Woody Whitpecker. Good to see you as well. Christoph K. Happy you are with us. Roscoe Jones. Glad you're here. Ty, thanks for coming by. As well as Willie Powell. Now, in terms of the poll and the live chat, it's got 158 votes. It says, did you know we have a podcast? Only 32% of people know. It's ad free, by the way. So if you listen to it, like right now, I mean, you could, if you wanted, you could pull out your favorite podcast app. So I'm pulling out mine now. I've got one on here somewhere. And then you search for modern day debate. I use podcast addict. Maybe you use Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Whatever it is, we're on every podcast app. So open up your favorite podcast app. If you search modern day debate, you will find us. Because we have worked hard to get modern day debate on every podcast app out there. I'm not joking. Seriously, I, as far as I know, we are on every single podcast app. So if you, if you Google or not Google, if you search for us on your favorite podcast app and you don't find us, let me know. Because we really do try to get on every single one. And it's ad free. So no ads. If you start listening to it, it just, boom, it jumps right into it. We're gonna say, hey, everybody, today we're debating LGBT race and gender. And we're starting right now with so-and-so's opening statement. And it just right into it. So there are no ads because, hey, if you're like me, let's say you listen to the Joe Rogan podcast and you're like, wow, this is a lot of ads right at the start. So sham sham, thanks for coming by. Says, is the debate over? Yes, it is. We're glad you're here, sham sham. Lord H. Sizzle says James Coons much love. I appreciate that. Seriously, that really does mean a lot. And Long Nights YouTube and says, soy boy, thanks for coming by Long Nights YouTube and good to see you. I'm glad we got to meet down there in Dallas. I remember that. That was a good time. And I've got to tell you, we are so thankful. You guys are so supportive. Seriously, 99.9% of the people that come into contact with modern day debate, you guys are so supportive. And don't worry, that other 0.1%, that'd be 0.1%, we'll win them over. And I've got to tell you, it motivates me. Like, I hate mentioning them. Because people, I worry sometimes that you guys would be like, James, you always talk about these people, all the haters. But they motivate me so much. It gets me excited when people are like, all triggered and like, modern day debate is bad. How dare you host hate or jangles or whoever? Because we've hosted some controversial people. And it just motivates me so much to wear, not only because of their publicity, their free publicity that they give when they cancel us or talk on Twitter about us. That actually, I have seen in our stats on YouTube, we actually grow from that, which is ironic, because they're trying to thwart us and yet they're accidentally helping us. The other thing, though, is it motivates me and it gets me excited. I'm not one of those people that's like, oh, someone yelled at me or someone said I'm bad. I'm going to be discouraged and quit. It just makes me work harder. It makes me more fired up and excited. So it's a weird, there's some sick part of me that really likes it. I don't know, it's nasty. But I just, yeah, I like it. But yeah, I want to say, though, the truth is, even though I talk about it a lot, because it gets me excited and I also, you know, it's true. There's a part of me that likes kind of saying, hey, we're going to go where other channels won't go. This is not your grandma's debate channel. Look out. If you're looking for a channel that's going to be politically correct and that's like never going to host someone controversial, frankly, that it's going to be boring. We're not the channel for you. Like if that's what you're looking for, at least you've been warned. Willie Keenan, thanks for being with us, has any way to get Alex Jones. We're working on it. No joke. So I have gotten in contact with Alex Jones' contact, one of his contacts. They say that they could talk to him regularly and work for him, though, in particular. And so it is in the works. It may take a while. It may take a little bit, because, you know, things like that, setting up big ones like that. It's a, you know, it's a challenge, but we're working on big stuff, big moves for this summer. Axel, fully glad to have you here, as well as Brassman. Thanks for dropping in. Uriel Giovanni, happy to have you here. Mark Reed, thanks for your support, says LOL James Yousico. You're right. Noel Espiritu, thanks for coming by. We're glad you were with us. Zaldrizzo says, Howdy James, fantastic all as always. Thanks for that support. Appreciate that. Now, none of you guys are talking about middle ground. Let me see here. Have you guys really never seen middle ground? Because, whoa, if you haven't, it's going to be quite the surprise. Because we are, like I said, we're working on our own version of middle ground debates, like if you've seen from the YouTube channel Jubilee, we're working on doing basically exactly the same thing. So we're excited about that. It's going to be our own topics and things in our own prompts and things like that. So the intellectual content, you say, will be different, but it will be similar in terms of, like, professional level lighting, professional level audio, all that good stuff. So, Cytonav says, The future's so bright, you all better have shades. It's true. And it's also true. Cytonav, no joke, I'll give you my address right now. Because I do, if you're able to, for those in-person panels that I plan on doing, right here in, I forgot, what is it called? Well, I won't say my city. We'll say in Colorado. I'm going to give you my address. I think you might have it, but nonetheless, in case you don't, sideshow. My base address is And I'm not joking, Bob, if you can do me a solid and if you can mail me, that in the cheapest way possible, it does not have to get here fast. So don't use first class because you know I'm very cheap. If you can just send it in the cheapest way possible, I will be, it'll be valuable to me as I work on doing these in-person panels that we're going to upload onto YouTube. But we're going to shoot them. They're not going to be live. They're going to be done like and then edited and then uploaded to YouTube. So if you can, Bob, I'd be super grateful and I'll pay you back in terms of whatever it costs you for shipping. And then radical coders is glad to be here, James, been watching for years and while I am often troubled by the framing of debates, I think the discourse can be valuable. You do amazing work, King. I'll be on eventually. Thank you for that radical coder. That means a lot. And yeah, we hope you feel comfortable. We want people to know that you can, constructive criticism is welcome. We will be the first person to admit. I'll be the first person to admit. We have things that we can improve on but we're going to work on them and they're going to get better. Modern day debate is going to keep on growing. We are optimistic about that as we pursue the vision. Our vision, our purpose, the thing that we are on fire for, determined to make happen is we are providing a neutral platform so that everybody on YouTube has their chance to make their case on a level playing field. That's important to us and we're making it a reality. The debate world deserves a better class of debate channel and we're going to give it to them. That's a modern day debate and so we're giving everybody their fair shot, even the controversial people. Tommy Guns, three, two, seven, glad you were here. I see they're in the old live chat. And yes, we appreciate you guys. Thank you for your support. I just want to have a nasty guy. Gosh. He says, I'm not even going to read it out loud. But let's see. Jeffrey Noel Espiritu. Thanks for coming by. It says 1 a.m. Wow. It's pretty late where you are. Is it really 1 a.m. there? But yeah, I am pumped you guys. I have to actually run because we're trying to set up a lot of debates and there are, there really are going to be some big ones, some epic ones coming up. And so I am pumped about that. Want to say thank you guys for your support. We're excited about the future. We love you guys. You guys make this fun. It's always a blast. We love our guests too. We really do hope that they feel welcome. We love jangles. We love Hague. We appreciate them. And yeah, in the chat, you know, we're okay with some teasing. If you want to, you know, rib, you know, rib a little bit in the old chat. I do want to always at the same time say, you know, but take it easy. Don't go nuts. Because if, if you're trashing our guests, we don't, we don't want them to be trash. Like they're our guests. Like we, we appreciate having them that they're willing to come on and chat with us and hang out. And, and likewise, it's even just, frankly, you're not only is it just that we, you know, we want to treat them well. But likewise, I mean, like for them, like would they want to come back to a channel that were people in the, you know, in the, in the comments, like just maliciously trashed them. Probably not. And so Tommy Gunns, let's see. Thanks to, says, you know, I appreciate your brother. Thanks so much Tommy. Appreciate that. Love you guys. And like I said, you guys in the chat, 99.9% of you are very well behaved and we appreciate that. So you guys do a fantastic job. We appreciate that. And want to say, I love you guys. Seriously, you make it fun. Thanks for being with us. Black Diamond to see there in the old live chat. Be alum crooks. Glad to have you with us as well. I want to say, thank you guys. We hope you feel welcome. No matter what walk of life you were from, whether you be a Christian, atheist, Muslim, you name it. Black, white, gay, straight, Biden backer. You name it. We are glad that you were here. We thank you guys for hanging out with us. We appreciate you guys. I hope you guys have a great rest of your night or day, depending on where you are. And we'll see you for the next one. Thanks everybody. I'm excited for these upcoming debates. They're going to be amazing.