 Good morning. Good morning everybody. I hope you are doing very well and that you are ready to our second meeting well for both the networks As you can see on screen We have some instructions for a fruitful and And smooth running of this meeting So you all have the right to unmute yourself But we would like to ask you to please keep your microphone on mute Until you actually have to talk so we avoid background noise If you want to talk I would also like to ask you to please raise your hand. There is a control Next to your the icon, you know where where you see your face in the screen Where you can raise your hand and we will give you the word for anything You can use the chat So we will answer questions also through the chat and Ultimately, I would like to ask you to please rename yourself so that we know who is Making what statement or or who wants to take the floor or so in this case There is a control next to the icon showing your your face That is named rename so please use it to rename yourself as following So the name of your country or organization followed by your name Fidipa and now taking control over the screen Before going through the agenda, I would like to explain you once more how these Meetings who will will be organized are actually has been organized for Just one second So, you know today we are actually Who is attending the meeting our participants from two networks? We have the Urozolam so Europe and Eurasian Participants so networks participants from this network and Participants from Africa the English speaking countries in Africa So these two networks will be together today and tomorrow and then we will do the training Part all together then on the 2nd of October so Friday We will have only participants from Europe and Eurasia So that day is dedicated only to the Urozolam meeting because it's about decision-making So I would like to ask a free lab participants to please not attend that meeting Well, I did not send you the link to join it too, but just in case you end up in it, please Just just drop the call don't join it why because Afri Africa participants from English speaking countries will have their own decision-making session next week so on the 8th of October Together with French speaking countries with Africa Okay, I hope this is clear. I reported in here also the time schedule So today we have the meeting organized in two sessions a morning session that We run from now so 11 until 1 p.m Then we will have a lunch break and then we will start again at 2 p.m So from 2 to 4 p.m With the afternoon session for the Rosalind this will be all the time for our free lab But this time is applied only today and tomorrow Next week we will follow the time schedule of the French after the meeting So from 9 30 to 1 30 p.m Pay attention GMT. It's a different time zone. I sent you all a calendar invitation Maybe just the ones that have special settings in the calendar did not receive it But please pay attention. There is a change in the time zone Okay, now I would like to go with you quickly through the agenda So today we have the opening by the chair of the Rosalind so mr. Georgie Gamba ships Then the chair of Africa, but we'll take the floor and this is mr. Joseph Uponi then we will have a very nice moment in which I will ask you all to please turn on your camera and We take a group pictures virtual group pictures. So please Remember to turn on your camera and make me a big smile The floor to not money suana the chair of glossolans that we present about Glossalon updates and then we will start with the real training. We have a first training session on external quality control And here we have two countries to present that volunteer to present What they did so the actions they implemented after participating in our PT these countries are Malawi and Nigeria and The session will be moderated by mr. Christian Harmon from IRD France and mr. Michael Watts from the British Geological Survey So the UK that will also give us general guidelines and will moderate the open discussion on how and why it's Important to take actions after participating in a PT After we will still talk about Interlaboratory comparisons. So we will look at downscaling Glossalon pts meaning the organization of national proficiency test Okay, also in this case we have two countries that will tell us a bit about their experience These are Ethiopia and Belgium and the moderator in this case will be Christian Harmon again And I will also help Now we have the lunch break and In the afternoon, we will talk about the establishment of national soil laboratory networks Michael League, Philippa will tell you a bit our plan So the glossalon plans in terms of establishing these national networks and then after we will look at some case studies So they want some countries volunteer to tell us a bit how they establish their network or are Establishing the network or the problems they are facing to establish that their network So we will hear from Mozambique Hungary Zimbabwe Ukraine Nigeria and ultimately Belgium We will close today with a presentation from Portugal and a private laboratory in Portugal That will tell us a bit about their experience in one of the poorest countries in Europe Tomorrow we will have a training session on equipment purchasing use and maintenance I think this is of great interest to you all So we will start by talking a bit about good practices on purchasing and operating laboratory equipment The vice chair of afrilab will tell us about this Referring to a document that is available on the glossalon web page. It's a training manual actually that we published this year On on this topic indeed and it's available in Five out of six u.l. Languages. So please have a look at it glossalon web page under the equipment section Then we will talk a bit about the procurement of laboratory equipment I will be moderating and I will be presenting Um about the experience we had in glossalon on procurement and the vice chair of Rosalind So miss spela velikonia will moderate the discussion session Then we have the lunch break and we close today with really a big training session from a manufacturer So an equipment producer from switzerland the booty the bookie Labo technique that will tell us about equipment installation use and maintenance again good practices And these close the training sessions. So for a rosalind and afrilab So I would like to start now by giving the floor to mr. Georgi gambatsida And we're also on chair for his opening remark. Georgi. The floor is yours We we cannot hear you Please unmute yourself Hello Can you hear me now? Yes So it's my pleasure to welcome all of you for our annual meeting so it's of course Not so good that we do not have capacity to meet each other personally and we are organizing this event remotely but I'm very optimistic. So I hope that these all cycles Related to cobit 19 will be ended soon and we'll Go back to normal life and we can communicate easily and meet each other personally and Do more than we could expect When you think we can do now. So it's my pleasure to Say hello to our afrilab colleagues as well. Not only european and eurasian Countries. So it's our first joint Activities, so it's very good that so we can exchange more as we are doing normally at glossilla meetings. So Yeah, again, many things which we planned maybe we could not accomplish Within aerosol and activities and many we have many plans again Which we postponed for the next year But again, I hope that we can manage to overcome these delays in some activities and we can Do and be more active for the next year when we Have no limitations in activities and moving around So thanks a lot to everyone who managed to Now join us and Are ready not also to our nice colleagues who agree for the providing us Trainings and presentations So thanks a lot to everyone and our gsp colleagues, of course who are organizing lots of meetings not only aerosol and Regional meetings, but many other meetings like it was for spectrum Scopey and other meetings, which is also planned within next weeks So thanks a lot to gsp team For everything because it's a lot of work and we see this how how hard you are working And we are really getting so many Invitations and letters. So it's really hard sometimes to be honest to not to be confused and to manage everything Accordingly. So if I'm sometimes delaying some answers, I'm sorry for this because sometimes really Happened with us as well because we are not also in normal conditions right now. So thanks a lot again So I will not take a lot of your time and wish you a great meeting Despite this is remotely, but I hope we can manage somehow and get used to this As I say, we still have to hey we use this opportunity for next meetings as well So thanks a lot to everyone and wish you nice and virtual meeting Many many thanks Georgie and you need apologies for spamming you all I send a lot of emails This is a very busy period of the year for gloss salon. So apologies because I will send you more in the coming weeks Now Joseph, I would like to give you the floor. Please unmute yourself for your opening remarks Thank you very much Lucrezia and Hello, hello Hello, can you hear me? We can hear you. Yes Okay, it's my breathe Now we can hear you anymore Joseph Hello Joseph It's nothing really so physical anymore. Yeah Uh, I think he lost the connection. So meanwhile, I would like to ask you all to please turn on your camera I will be taking uh, well, let me stop sharing my screen And I will be taking group pictures. So big smile, please Uh, give me just a second. No, I do this Gallery here it is Okay, are you ready? Please remember to keep your microphone muted Otherwise the icons on the screen will move and uh, I will miss someone Okay ready First screen three two one smile Okay First picture capture Let me go to the next screen three two one Wait, three two one Smile Next screen ready three two one Smile, and then I don't see cameras on anymore Okay Now I would like to give the floor. We continue with our agenda. We are a few minutes late Actually one minute late I would like to give the floor to the chair of glossel on me It's not my name. So one for the updates on on glossel on so on the global network Knock the floor is yours. I understand that you want to share your screen. So please We can't see your screen yet Okay Okay, so you'll see my screen No No Why You want me to play? Yeah, so you you you put your screen piece To save the time Let me open the presentation Now I can see your screen Ah, okay, good Okay, so So it's okay. Yes, perfect. Please go ahead Okay, so good afternoon from thailand Uh, I'm very happy to be here today to meet our colleague from euro solan and also the first time that I will meet the colleague Many colleagues from afri lab Today I take the opportunity to Provide you the report update of the also land activity Let me remind you about the also land establishment in november in 2017 In order to strengthen the performance of the lab to the use of the standardized methods and the protocols Harmonized soil analysis methods so that the soil information would be comparable and interpretable across lab countries and regions And we also have a hope to provide a certification for the technical competence in lab analysis Now up to now we have almost 500 lab Or allow the word that already already registered in our coastal land The the cable show you the number of the participants from each region You can see that we have a lot of participants from afri lab and also the euro solan And this is the the figure that showed you the increasing of the interest of the participants to register in our network from afri lab from the starting in in 2018 generally until until 21st sept September And this is for the euro solan is the same we have an increasing Participant it is mean that we have a lot of interest that would like to join us So the main area of our work we have divided to The main area of our work to be more easy to work on the topic So in in the first main topic that we would are working on is the quality actual and the quality control We are providing now a basic guideline on how to produce a soil sample for the proficiency testing And all training on the internal and external quality control will be done during the annual meeting like today Or to the annual meeting like this time. We also have a training session about the purchasing of the equipment And also all training material and the PT report will be available in our website Actually, we also execution of the regional and global PT in 2018 we have organized the regional PT in asia and also in latin america And in 2019 we it is the first year that we organize a global PT With a participate allow 100 lap that participate in our PT or region and look at 12 analytical parameters From the result we can see that it is valid to make a global network because the analysis Result do not depend on the region. We have very similar on the mean of the result And we also can calculate uncertainty So compare so comparison at the global level are now possible Low performance of the lab exists in terms of the training by the good performance lab will be giving the opportunity to compete for the equipment So I will give you the detail of this later In the same time coso land is also encouraging the lab to organize their national PT By as the best the first global custom control possible as you may know that now we have more about 500 lap it's what's very difficult for coso land will work With 500 member so we now scale our activity to the national by Provide extra switching to serve them for the first global custom control procedure The resolution on the international exchange of the soil sample for the research proposed under the global soil That network will be present at the 27 committee on agriculture in 2020 So please Ask your member that participate in that meeting support our endorsement So this is the page of our soil import legislation As the interlap comparison is a key tool to access and enhance the standard of the analysis And access to the standardization of the soil analytical method across the country Leading to have more reliable and interoperable soil data But in order to promote the facilitated of the organization of the international interlap Comparison and to exist all those countries with the analytical capacity in sufficient to cover Their national demand to chip the soil sample to be analyzed So we decide to share knowledge and explain on national custom control By organizing them in an online global custom control Proceed data base as you can see here we call simple So in this you can select your country and come to have a look on your information We would like you to cross check for the information in the database and also coordinate the treatment of the sample with all this Let's be left Ask the recipe lab about additional document that you might have to prepare so that will Help us to is the process of the soil exchange sample. This is the The example of the what's one what's one Uh, the document need by the custom country specifically mark additional information because each country will not have the same information that they need so Please Provide to come to have a look and check your data on your country. If it's wrong, you can inform to our security FAO location This is the european union website and the australian website and The interlap may have the opportunity to provide the sample to cosolams pt Becoming a global Cosolams pt sample provider not only benefit to the cosolams activity But it's also give the opportunity for you as a sample provider to have the consensus value aside to the To the sample and then allow you to consider this sample as a left lane method That may be used in your quantity control procedures And on the earlier of the standard operand Operation procedure we are go hand in hand with the execution of the internal and snow quality control exercise We are working now to produce scobery harmonized sop for the known methods And priority is given to the method for the analysis of the soil chemical parameter at this moment But we will start this year. I hope to start on the soil physics and also the biological as well as on soil contaminants very soon The method to harmonize are designed at the annual meeting of the cosolams keeping into consideration the regional priority and the request In 2019 we have harmonized the sop 5 sop that already harmonized on soil sample Total carbon by the mass dry combustion Organic carbon by work rate and back and calcium carbonate we can blame by the rheumatic calcium Method and by type it method and all of these sop you can unleash by our website Without the cost is free How does we make the harmonized process work we identify one leader from the regional harmonized Sop in the work plan regional sop leader work together to prepare the sop form And then jsp will distribute this form to the network and to compile and I know minimize lap information and share this information to the regional sop leader for their regional harmonization Then possible regional harmonized sop will be present and discussed at our less or less meeting Unfortunately, I think that this year we cannot do something like this. So this year maybe we will make a like a harmonized by the email regional sop leader to do the global harmonization and present the draft sop at the annual cosolams meeting So what is op that cosolams will work on 2020? All the cosolams sop will be available in our website for free So this is the all the sop that we will work this year 14 sop that we will work this year you can see that You we have a group of the leader from aflab and also the euro so land that already involved to be the leader of our SOP and I would like to thanks For all the name that mentioned here that support to our activity And I hope that this year we have we will have more and more of the participants that have the skill that we like to take in charge of this role also in the other sop So in the area of the equipment as we may know that in the lab Equipment is very important But remember that the equipment alone does not make the difference in getting the reliable data We believe that the training first is very important So before investing the new lab equipment, the lab manager should make sure that the lab staff is properly And regularly trained and that good lab practice including equipment maintenance and calibration are implemented However, the lab cannot work without the equipment So we decide to provide the lab that have a good pt in this In last year with the new equipment The pt of the lab is access to the goes to land pt report that you can I think The the members that participate in our pt already get the draft report of our activity So based on the result of the goes to land pt 2019 We are now providing the equipment to 21 lab in 21 countries The detail maybe you can see the detail later in the goes to land websites So We are so working on the promotion of the good practice we have a produce Publication on the good practice on purchasing and operating lab equipment Advise what to do and what not to do before during and after the purchasing of the lab equipment or receiving it as a donation Good practice on the management of the console member and husband as substrand are also included on this and because Some lab have the problem with the equipment that they have received. So We also act with a barter donation system to give the opportunity to the lab that receive the donation That have the equipment that are that they are not in the condition to operate and all will maintain because of the several factors Like the in situ availability of the service providers of the equipment maintenance provision of the console member For specific equipment brands the same can happen to the lab purchasing new equipment themselves This can result in the misuse Damage and also this use of the equipment So we are now available to support lab willing to bother their real functioning equipment for free Why the solar lab also are asked to replace that still functioning equipment on a regular basis Instead of being this post this equipment can be donated to the lab in this So more information available in our website and interlace lab can send an email to our secret police We also development the guideline on the procurement We are working to develop the guideline on this procurement of the lab equipment This would help lab to better formulate their request to vendor participating to the bid Get the right equipment get trains or is used and receive after-sales service including remote support and maintenance service Moreover, we are also working on the innovative technology like the soil spectroscopy On the apu 2020 we launched off the coast lamp program on the soil spectroscopy And we have the first meeting finally meeting on the 23 to 25 september We have a very large amount of the participants that participate in our meeting 250 from 63 countries And the main conclusion from our our meeting is that the concept note that we have prepared is was revised and 2020 and 2020 one work plan for for soil land on these spectroscopy have been Defied special attention was given to the establishment of the global spectra Caribbean library and the writing of the timeline protocols and unknown on the spectroscopy The modality by which for soil land view interact with the other initiatives And how the project can contribute to the coast land was also defined The modality by which coast land will interact with the countries and lab Institution and organization working on the soil spectroscopy was also defined The go in and of the initiative Also was defined in this meeting Coastland also received a request to look into the fertilizer quality assessment And it is now working on the establishment of the international network on the fertilizer analysis To be launched to online meeting in 2020 The main objective of the meeting is to define the international law and the specific objective of the infar develop the infar work plan identify the international organization Like the fertilizer institute that infar should connect to For this whole operation and also the opportunity to make the collaboration in order to prepare to the meeting The lab and the institute less possible for the assessment of the fertilizer quality in that country are being identified regional and the international organization Association and the institute's working on the fertilizer quality assessment And which agenda compatible with that of the infar are being identified As per the principle of the coast land we try to cooperate and limit the duplication of effort as much as possible Our stakeholder working in the field of the fertilizer quality assessment are invited to compete the questionnaire And this input will be used to open the discussion at the lunch meeting of the infar So I will provide you some input that we have collected from for our survey questionnaire here with the report We have made a survey on the quality of the fertilizer assessment in in that country and 78 percent Say yes for all type of the fertilizer and amendments Then we are talking about the standard that they use to access Most up then 68 percent said that they use the national developed standard And 100 percent said that they would like to have the global standard on fertilizer quality assessment So the expectation for the infar is that they would like to develop the global and then the regional harmonized method on fertilizer quality assessment And also organize the global pt on the fertilizer quality A data on the custom control Positivity will be do in the same as the soil sample Possibility to as a business regional center for the training and doing the assessment of the fertilizer quality and actually Capacity building training and equipment is also very important In order for the country to use the infar method we need to work on infar and also the policy in parallel So I think this is more or less the last slide Now we are downscaling the activity from the global soil lab network goes to land to the national lab network And in this meeting you will hear some discussion on how how they are already Established on on their national network. Do they have the Problem or it's very smooth to organize this. So I hope that you have Some country as an example for the other that cannot be established Thank you very much for your kind attention Thank you. Thank you very much knock Is there any question you if you have any question, please type them in the chat And we will be happy to to answer to them Uh, I would like now to give the word to In this sense, I would like to move to the training session on external quality control and give the floor to Malawi, so Wesley Feldman from Fest Agricultural Laboratory to tell us about Their experience in taking action after participating in a in the gloss alone proficiency test Uh Wesley, are you with us? Yeah, I'm here Yes, um, hi there You can share your screen Let me do that Lucas it says no it's disabled but this bench and screen share I can share for you or you can tell me when uh, I have to move this slide We can share for me then Do you see a screen Perfect. Yeah, thank you. That's good. Tell me when we want me to change this slide But you have to play the presentation. Okay Okay, good morning all, I'm Wesley Feldman and I'm from FES AgriLab a newly developed lab in Malawi Um, can you change quickly? So we are startup agricultural laboratory and we've been operating for one year We opened in september of 2019 and we used the gloss alone proficiency test To Validate our results almost as we opened the lab and started our analyses So the lab's equipped with a number of different pieces of equipment as shown on the slide And we basically our aim is to analyze everything agricultural so from soil leaf water and fertilizer We these are the sample types we're looking to analyze as well as getting into pesticide analyses with the GC and LCMS Can you change please? So what we did here was we used the proficiency test As we opened the lab. So we submitted for four results ph electrical conductivity organic carbon and nitrogen And so as you can see we only got ph correct So this was a sort of call to tell that we needed to implement quite a strong quality control system From the results of the proficiency testing. Okay, can you next slide please? So the actions we took were to do just that we implemented quite a strong um almost checklist approach where we used um the The measures on the slide one to four where we started with reference materials. We first purchased Um a wide scope of reference materials and from that we developed our own internal controls from there We monitor our batches of samples With these internal controls putting the the controls in the beginning middle and end of the batches So then we can see how our results are Um varying if if at all over an extended run of an instrument We then do blind samples and replicates. These are sort of the same thing our replicates rule is to Um duplicate every tenth sample whereas blind samples are taken at a more random Random assortment The third one and possibly one of the most important was to increase our scope of proficiency testing So, of course, we got our results back from blocellan But we also identified two other soil based Proficiency tests being agri-lasa from south africa and wepple from the university of weningen um, and these allowed us to Test the scope of our analyses a little bit more because they quarterly proficiency tests So we can we can check on a three month basis and they agri-lasa for example Test soil leaf water and fertilizer. So these give us Um a wider range of our parameters and sample types so we can externally validate these The final thing we did is to we noticed with our instrumentation We needed to ensure that we were getting the right results with a good level of confidence each time So what we do here is run our internal controls Basically, it beats between five to ten times at the beginning of every month And then we can update our internal controls Plus we can then ensure that our instruments are giving quite a consistent result and then One one thing we've just started to implement now is to use Templates so these are basically Excel spreadsheets with inbuilt macros and these can now Identify things that are grossly out of range or negative results from there. We can then We can then go to Identifying what our corrective actions should be so then we once we've identified that a batch of soil samples for example is out of range we can write a non-conformance Discuss the corrective actions as a team from analyst lab manager and chemist And then we can then we can say what needs to be done. Is it the instruments? Is it bad extraction? There are a couple of different things which Which it can be and then we get to the bottom of it From using that procedure and can you move this slide please? and then then just to conclude basically using these proficiency test things to put a More rigorous quality control system in place We want to have a checklist where we need to take off that a range of different parameters are in range good And then we can be confident that the quality is good And that the clients can be happy at the end of the day and so can we Okay, thank you Thank you very much. Wesley. Let me give the floor actually to the moderators of these sessions So mr. Christian Harman and then mr. Michael Watts Christian and Michael the floor is yours for the moderation Yes, thank you In fact, you were so afraid to be late again that You skipped the introduction that we wanted to do to Remind give some reminder to the people who are participating to that meeting But who did not perhaps participate to the proficiency test we we launched So I will share my screen Here Okay Do you see the presentation? Yes, please. Yeah So the item two was how to take action after participating in a in a PT in a proficiency test We before the presentation we wanted to remind to everybody that the laboratory objective Is to produce good quality data? So what can be good called good quality data? It's data that are accurate and precise these two concepts are very important So the accuracy is how close you are from the goal You see for example on this figure the target on on the two top target You are very far away from the middle of the of the goal So your results are not accurate at the bottom you are closer to the middle of the target So your results have increased better accuracy But at the same time precision need to be taken into account This is how close you are for your different replicates If you replicate several times the same analysis of the same hit on the target Where are you so you see on the left? There is low precision on the right. There is high precision And this two concept is two measures because you can measure your precision and accuracy Gives an idea of your performance and So how can we measure the lab performance the proficiency testing or interlaboratory comparison is one way to measure this So what Glossoland did? There are three samples abc That have been prepared, grinded Homogene has been tested and sent to 100 labs around the world They were 14 different parameters to measure including ph, carbon, nitrogen and so on And after making the analysis the labs had to send back the analytical results to the gsp headquarter I think Nock mentioned about the fact that the results are 100% Anonymous The statistical analysis was made So I was one of the person who made the statistical analysis But I do not know the code and where the results are coming from only the the leaders of the gsp knows this So statistical analysis is made blind And after this the Glossoland sent back to each lab that sent the result a document Showing the lab performance the zscore that was just mentioned in in the previous Presentation and the zscore is for each parameter So you see here the kind of document that the lab has received You have the sole name on the right abc and on the x-axis you see the code of the different parameters ocwb is for example organic carbon white clay black and So how can you interpret this? So if you are between the two green line minus two and plus two you are have Satisfactory or acceptable result. This is what has just been said also in the in the previous presentation And between the green and red light your question your results are still questionable That does not mean they are wrong. They are questionable This can be explained during other trainings about statistical analysis And if you are above or below the red line, you have wrong results for sure for statistical reasons and this has also been explained So the objective of this session is after receiving that document What kind of action can you take? And I think we had already a very good presentation on the way the lab manager reacted after receiving the results So this was one first presentation and we will have now the case of nigeria For mr. Ekbe williams that will present here also how in his lab they reacted So I let now philippo manage Oh, mr. Ekbe Yes, can you hear me? Can you see a representation? Can you hear me? Yes, so please let me know when you want me to change the slide Ekbe williams are you there? I think we have a connection problem Yeah, among the participants We lost connection with nigeria We move forward now So kree you want to christian and michael do you want to move to I can hear you now. Can you hear me lucrisa? Yes, please the floor is yours hear me Hello lucrisa. Can you hear me? Yes, please start your presentation Okay now The case of nigeria by be williams I love is a national fertilizer. What's our laboratory cardinat nigeria 2019 proficiency Williams Please Williams we cannot hear you. It's the it's breaking a lot very bad. Yeah over here next talk very bad Ah, okay. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry I can hear you now can hear you now Okay, let's try one more time Hello, can you hear me now? Yes, let's try one more time if it keeps on breaking we move to the next item I'm very sorry, but we really Can't wait long Okay, so the the result of the acid testing by The area of emphasis let's look at the general result is slide six Are you taking cost to slide six? slide six slide six Yes, beautiful Now from the statistical analysis the first thing we try to do was to try to analyze the statistical analysis The zscore for my laboratory And from the parameters I participated in result of pH fell within the the acceptable range organic carbon only minus three results was to Williams And we discovered that it was the way Now if you look at every other results, I think I'm very sorry. It's breaking too much. We we can't follow what you are presenting Filippo is there What is in the next slides? Is there a sample of the actions taken? Yes, let's see the summary of the actions taken Now the first thing I did was to understand the PT evaluation process with the zscore And my general performance and the unusual thing I discovered was in that of nitrogen And a result of calcium Magnesium and a potassium Now the Which analysis I perform usually below above the mean score? analysis of nitrogen plus two a plus Two so I confiscate which we had to Just for the various analysis And I showed they were strictly ahead to a precision Now I Please as the extract Um, Williams. I'm sorry. We still have the same problem But I think we gave enough time to participants to read through the slides What is in the next slide, Filippo? Is still actions taken? Yeah Okay, let's give them a few more number five for this Or maybe we can read it loud for Williams. I'm very sorry Williams because we really we we can't hear anything So are you ready for me? Yes, I ensure that all data reported subsequently for any analysis are cross-checked making sure the right units and actual values are reported And that the data reported correspond to the method used Then I perform recovery test using a crm for every analysis and compare Results we target recovery for the analyte concentration Then I make sure every every sample to be analyzed for any parameter is done in replicate promoting reproducibility Which also help us to carry out precision tests Then perform easy check for distilled and deionized water regularly We entered into laboratory exchange program with the institute of agricultural research In Nigeria for information sharing and interlaboratory comparison We took a training course on iso iec 17 o 24 and then again iso 17 o 20 and iso 17 o 25 to strengthen our capacity capacity and in preparation for accreditation as a reference laboratory That began in august this year and it is going It is ongoing per initiative of the nigeria institute of soil science Foremost the soil science regular regulatory body in nigeria Sad led with the responsibility of ensuring that soil and fertilizer laboratory in nigeria meet up with international standard William do do you want to add something? No, no, no I'm so sorry because the the audio the connection is so bad Okay, so I believe this is the last slide for the case of nigeria So christian and um and michael the floor is back to you Okay christian, shall we uh gauge opinions of everyone for actions Yeah, perhaps Ask if other people would like to say but perhaps I would like to say something I really thank the two people who presented the results Because some of the results were bad and they were not ashamed or afraid to present it This is the daily life of a lab. You cannot make the things perfect And they presented the problems to everybody and I think the way they tried to solve the problem was very interesting So the first thing is thank you very much for presenting what The problems you had and what you did so michael I let you now run The discussion I would agree. Um, it's it's um very very commendable to be honest and open At bgs our quality systems were were established in the late 1990s In working with the nuclear industry So we have a mature system that everybody is familiar with but we still have problems So it is constant work it you don't just solve it with a training course or Telling somebody to run qc's you have to constantly check on procedures and of course every everybody knows that But it's another thing to actually do it and to Keep the interest and the motivation to do it is is the biggest challenge of all It's very easy to set up guidelines What we are not going to do here is actually present guidelines. There isn't enough time to go through that We would appreciate any commentary on from other laboratories and their experience On the pt results. So has it changed behavior? Was it a positive experience? Did it worry you was it constructive? um So perhaps if anyone could offer some Feedback on how they found the experience and what actions they have taken And then we can collect opinions together to gradually put together some guidelines from the whole group The experience of putting the sample preparation procedure together was quite painful and I realized At the end it required much more conversation to come up with a A harmonized approach. So please do express your opinions. So you can put them in the chat box or you can unmute yourself And of course we have the whatsapp groups. So does anyone want to offer their experience? Or shall I pick on someone? Yes, I'd like to offer an experience Okay, that's joseph. Joseph Yeah For us it was a very useful experience because although we've been participating in pt programs with Wabne again this global one was interesting for us incidentally we had a problem with nitrogen also and We went back to check what the matter was with the nitrogen results obviously on the day we did the analysis there was some Ammonia in the air somebody opened the bottle of ammonia not too far away So we had higher values than expected by the time we repeated the analysis it came in less than The z-score was less than two. So we are sure that Our analysis was okay. I think it's a good idea to have this proficiency testing exercises and we hope that can start some Proiciency testing locally also to make it easier for distributing samples in country But it was a good exercise Thank you. Okay. Thank you for that example joseph So you you had a problem you investigated it And you came up with a solution. Um, yeah once was that whole process documented and then shared with your staff Oh, yeah, it was a mean we have a documentation process for doing that usually Investigations and things that are documented. Yes Um because because that will help you to um avoid the same problem happening again and again And unfortunately that can be very frustrating and expensive Yeah We have it documented and Also, uh, usually when we when we have experience Uh, such uh things after the troubleshooting we have to mandatory Retrain the staff who is uh Doing the analysis You know, they know to do it for just to make assurance that we sure Okay, and do your individual staff have training records so that you can document your action Yeah, because it's required of course to document the retraining of the staff So it has to be retrained and then satisfied again for the analysis Before you can proceed Okay, so you can assess their competency to do that task. Yeah Okay, thank you. Does anyone else have uh, was that everything joseph? Did you want to say anymore? Take that as a no. Did anyone else want to i'm okay? Okay, does anyone else want to offer their experience? Come on. I'll choose someone on the screen So I have agnes right next to my screen. Why don't we pick on agnes? From hungry Agnes, please admit yourself Yes, sorry Uh, I uh can hear a question. Sorry Could could you um give some uh feedback to the rest of the group on your experience? Much as we heard from uh, f.e.s. And from uh, Nigeria What what uh, was your experience? Did it change any behavior? Was it a positive experience? Was it worrying? Was it constructive? After the PT. Yes We we have some problems with the calculation and we uh, check out our system and we uh, recognize we don't use a multiply for a Potassium and it was useful for us to Take these Experiences after the PT. I think Okay That's a that's a nice example and a very common and easy easy problem is a simple mistake in a formula. Yeah the It's a little mistake, but it's a very uh, big mistake in Results Yeah, yeah, okay. That's a great example. I think there's a considerate contribution from Come here for camera And So Yes, please go ahead. Yes. Good morning everybody or good afternoon depending on the part of the world Yeah, this is rose from Cameroon and I just want to share some experiences we've had in the lab as well when it comes to quality control when it comes to these calls Unfortunately, I did not participate in that first round of PT I'm testing with close to land because I was not present at the meeting but I worked closely with Joseph my colleague in Nigeria and we actually We do a proficiency testing with web par and at some at some point We had some problems with our nitrogen values. We had these calls that were That weren't that weren't that were out of the limits. It was above two and no below two actually I know above you have above That minus three actually and so what we did we started looking back and we we found out that The equipment our digester had had a problem with the with the probe So we got a new probe locally, which was not really the right probe for our equipment Implying that our samples weren't digesting completely And so we're having values that were a little bit that fell short from the mark And so it took us working backwards to pinpoint that it was because of the machine the the the the temperatures weren't You know exactly those temperatures, you know that the machine would give due to the probe that was inappropriate. So in the end we had to I'm gonna readjust the temperature settings for the machine and just at the same time Reordering a new prop for the equipment. So in the end we got it sorted out But it took a lot of working backwards, you know, going through the chain analysis chain to get it fixed Same thing with the ph meter. We got ph values at some point Falling short as well, you know, we had to work backwards, you know, is it that ever a technician problem? Is it and in the end it was the electrode because the filling solution had dropped a little bit Below the mark and so when we topped it up and recalibrated we began So, you know, like i'm a christian said earlier in the lab, you know, you would you cannot tell, you know It would come from one direction One day it's fine another day, you know, because of a little problem with the equipment Or even there's the solutions you prepared something would go wrong And so for us to actually, you know be on top of things we we actually have We also have certified reference material which we have Values for, you know, so we insert that in each batch of our samples and that's like our first line Of control so in a nutshell that's what we do on a daily basis in our laboratory to make sure that we're We're on top of things. Thank you Okay, thank you. That's another very nice example. And of course documenting all of these Examples in your own labs is very important to learn the lessons because people forget Yeah, that's true And it and it's also about communicating this information to your to your groups. Does anybody else have an example? Okay, so the University of Zimbabwe, I think hello Yeah, thank you Michael. It's a term because from the verses of Zimbabwe You know being in a teaching lab is not easy with too many people coming into the lab We're having problems with the our results. We Usually get very high results. So we try and started to investigate What was the problem? Why we were getting too high results? So as a result we ended up finding out That we were using one of our detentions to do the cleaning Which is what you saw them carbonate? So we could get high carbonate results from our soils We could get high results or sodium And so we tried to investigate why we were getting too high results So we managed to find That one of the detergents that we were using Was actually helping some sodium And it was also helping some carbonate so our soils our results we could get high results of carbonates you could get the high results of sodium So as a result we've actually changed Our detentions that we are using To watch we are using the endotinetic acid In order to eliminate That problem or maybe high results from our lab And also we are training our students all alone. We're not using You know The quality controls So we are trying to implement Standards in our labs Those are still a challenge. We we are yet to learn how to make Internal standards and also probably get External standards that we can also incorporate In our day-to-day soil analysis. Thank you Thank you. I think one of your colleagues I worked with on a soil exchange with several labs across Africa and you had a problem with iron results Tommy from your Tomic absorption spectrometer and as we thought about that He realized that his iron standard was 20 years old So of course, you know, there is always an explanation and you can solve the problem. So These are good examples. Does anybody anybody else have an example? Where they've investigated the problem in the PT scheme Maybe someone from Europe or Eurasia because we heard a lot from Africa Don't be shy Or was it a positive experience everything went well Anything else that will anyone else that would like to share their experience? How about in georgia? They look very comfortable Georgie, would you like to share your experience? Poor Georgie Yeah, in general any tests we can say that it's Additional experience to to any external samples and especially then it is like proficiency tests and We are glad that in most cases our result was okay Uh, and of course we we uh, it doesn't mean that everything is ideal and we there's always some room to improve some Results, yeah, because in some cases we have some differences in different samples or some samples were like Well suited to others results some was a little bit out. So So we we in some cases maybe we found just small It could be associated with some small Errors within the process of the analysis, but it was not as like crucial that we got something very special but of course again, it's it's any Even normally then you do any additional sample you are getting which is different from the normal routine Samples is always Again experienced because you never know what what you can expect from that sample and Therefore More care should be taken normally To avoid any Random errors because normally I think mainly it's it's a case Because other systematic errors if you'll carry it then it's Then it's maybe It's usually reflected on all samples, but some random errors It could be reduced To be more careful to take care of all all steps starting from the digestion of the sample or extraction nutrition and so on and Finally, of course to measure it on the instrument carefully so again Thanks to all of you Your experience and Can I ask if you're if you're happy with your results? Do you share the the The results of the pt scheme with staff in the laboratories that is that communicated? Yes, yes, sure Even now our my staff is here. So we are like jointly attending this meeting and of course we are discussing all these issues internally and Of course each step because otherwise you cannot improve your performance If you will not share and discuss all the details as I mentioned very sometimes very very small Details even temperature in the room for example, which can be slightly different in different Rooms even yeah, it can Make small changes then you are then you want to be more precise and accurate Okay, yeah, it's important to reinforce the positives as well so that people know they are are working well Yes, you are happier than your results are somewhere in line with other laboratory results. Yeah, of course. This is the game confidence In yourself that what you are doing is not very different from that others or more experienced laboratories already Yeah, okay. Thank you. Thank you Okay, does anybody else want to give an example or their feedback on the experience of the pt scheme And the question you have asked michael, I think is very relevant one What is because we have I think mainly lab managers But we can ask them also what is the feeling of the staff when they see the result If the results are good or bad What are the reactions of the staff? I think this I wanted to ask the question. That's when you ask it too Yeah, it's important is are the staff defensive or Is there a culture an environment where people It's not a not a position of blame but a constructive approach To improve performance. So we have some good examples. I mean simple things like calculations can be Can have mistakes Contamination of the laboratories in various ways. There's a good examples Investigating through to an equipment problem having checked that staff are doing Procedures in the correct way. So those are general Um, sort of examples When we do feel free to send us either via the whatsapp groups or email some some Examples that you would want to see in guidelines But what we will do is put together some guidelines and please do provide feedback So that this is a practical document That everyone can use because we can give our experience, but it might be from our Own perspective, which is no good on a worldwide on a global sort of basis Let's say go has their hands priced. So maybe she wants to talk Okay, let's say go Please unmute yourself We can hear you I wanted to make a contribution on the What the benefits from the test results Um, our results were not very bad. They were good. In fact, we had a challenge with our one only one test And the test that I think having had a challenge with it helped a lot because In a lab we have a maintenance plan And usually when you request for funds, it's not easy to get money But the tests that we get the test results that we got from The proficiency testing helped us a lot in Um Justifying to management That it is critical for us to follow The maintenance plan for the equipment Because each of them can only carry a certain load of samples before it can require to be serviced and I think It's also in the sense that we might to save funds to save is that machine And the other thing that we realized cost the problem to challenging results was The overload sometimes our technicians. They just carry too much Too many samples at a go and one is targeting at finishing the job and We we tried getting temporary employees to try and enlighten the workload on the technician so that they may Give more focus to what they are doing and we also Managed to to to get something from from gloss land to replace that equipment that we have that was because in the in the assessment that we were given to To complete I really tried to be as open as I can instead of trying to say we can do a good job I really stated the the state as it is and and I think That's all that I can really say and I also want to support be The gentleman from Zimbabwe that the kind of washing Detisions that we use sometimes we have to be very careful because some of them they are first they're not first faithful That they they also impose contamination to test results And I think that's all that I would like to contribute. Thank you very much Michael yeah One thing that hasn't been mentioned is a frequent mistake is the incorrect use of units That's a classic problem Yeah, often the reporting You may have a different reporting format to the pt team. So therefore you have to change your units Often data is reported without units And you'll see some big commercial labs doing that. So it can happen Okay, um many thanks for suggestions and please do Oh, um Please admit yourself Uh, I just want to add to the discussion that uh indeed for us as well the proficiency testing and the results are very useful And just another thing I want to remark is is the traceability which is has been for us very important And with that I mean You participate in a proficiency testing and after several months you get feedback on the results And then you sit together with your staff to discuss and then it's always very good To have all the procedures all the steps even the equipment that was used Uh to trace back how you came to the result Because we often see that uh what two things First of all, for example, it can be there was a change in use of other reagents or also for example other milling equipment And then it's good to know which all the different steps were used or equipment or reagents Sometimes you can find that for example, there was a contamination or so coming from certain type of thing that you used So therefore I really would like to say that if you Have to find what was the problem. It often helps to find back how you came to that result Uh, and then secondly on the question like how to to how do people react? Well, it's always like doing an exam. Uh, so You and all people react sometimes different on units But I think most important is that you have to be an open mind And give yourself the example to the staff and trying to figure it out together with them And sometimes the well in some cases, it's very obvious like different units. Of course this can happen But this always There are a lot of other where even after one year of search we we we did not find it So just randomly or also that you find it But it was really out of what you were first predicting. So you really have to be an open mind To find solutions and of course do it together with the staff and keeping them involved because that's the most important They did it And they know best where things could have been gone wrong. So this are just the two things I wanted to add Brilliant. Thank you. That's a brilliant example And uh, it's largely about creating the culture, isn't it within your laboratories? So there's that open discussion. Um, and not necessarily fixing the blame For uh, it's a good long-term Uh solution. So thank you for that example Um, christian, I think we're running we're running out of time. So I think the pressure is biting our nails Just one last comment is that I think what we try to explain in in our trainings and that the people must remember Errors are unavoidable You will always make errors. It's impossible to make a perfect job. This is why you need quality control Quality control is here to detect and after this solve a problem But I think it's very important to explain the people it's impossible Totally impossible to have a lab without errors But you can detect them and I think Kristoff's point about being able to investigate the situation traceability Yeah, ultimately everything in the lab is being able to trace back what what has been Undertaken Okay, I think we're at the end of the session Yeah Okay, is that okay? Yeah, okay for me And thank you Lucrezia for a five minute excess time You're muted Lucrezia you're muted Sorry, so I was thanking you all Really thank you all those that That told us their experience and thanks, of course the moderator. It was very interesting Uh, I would like now to move to the next session that is still about pts about downscaling pt We will learn from etiopia and belgium the moderator in this case is again christian and I will support I believe there is no Pre presentation from your side christian for you, right? Okay, so I would like to give the floor to mousseffa ready a begasm from The etiopian institute of agricultural research in etiopia for your presentation Mousseffa the floor is yours. Okay. Thank you My presentation is just We have started a national pt provision in the scheme of soil analysis And the next slide These are the outlines introduction design of professions testing scheme phase of estimated operation of professions testing scheme data analysis and evaluation of peter results We have long to do one pilot pt provision for about eight participant laboratories And finally we have reported and we have conducted evaluation workshop and This are the outlines and the next slide This is an introduction For it in etiopia case. We have started agricultural research for about 50 years for the last 50 years and those technologies are Those research technologies were released based on field and laboratory experiments and the soil laboratories are play a fundamental role in producing agricultural technologies in analysis of soil plants fertilizer and so on and the next slide Currently there are about 68 soil laboratories exist in etiopia You can see the map The old laboratories dispersed in the northern western and eastern parts of the country And however the data generated from etiopia laboratories are not reliable enough and Need to improve their analytical service quality And reliable results will be generated based on fulfilling the ISO 17 of 2 and 5 for standard And also after getting our accreditation certificate Consecrated since the last five years few very few soil laboratories who feels this standard and able to get accreditation certificates Among the few accredited soil laboratories Our laboratory quality architecture research center soil laboratory has been accredited since 2014 And one of the major reasons behind main soil laboratories were not accredited is behind because of difficulty in professions testing participation Uh, in our national accreditation office in compliance with AILAC rules They have definitely they have the policy for participation in PT activities, but participating in PT is difficult due to reasons of getting foreign funds and also so on And the professional testing is Is a significant component in the laboratory accreditation process as it allows laboratories to monitor the quality of their analytical results As stipulated in ISO 17 of 2 and 5 there are a number of benefits. These are benefits You know all the benefits furthermore regular participation in a PT program provides an external quality assurance Accordingly those accredited soil laboratories have been circling in soil PT provider from outside of the country, especially in our country No local PT providers exist Due to the absence of local soil PT provider It's the fact that participating for foreign PT provider demands the hard currency That makes difficult for the developing country particularly Ethiopia that lacks hard currency And also the poorest country in the world In general fees from PTs from industrialized countries and Transportation costs are often high and Ethiopia soil laboratories could not afford it. So With these justifications There should be a local PT provider And hard hard soil laboratory has been selected to be soil PT provider Through Ethiopian laboratory association with a PTB There's a project PTB project And that based on the with the help of PTB project and Ethiopian laboratory association Zark soil laboratory has been selected with a competitive based Accordingly a pilot PT provision was conducted for HL laboratories of AR during the first quarter of 2019 This is the design. I think there's no need to tell you about the design But just to tell you about some pointers the frequency of participation is like a WEPAL WEPAL frequency of participation is four times a year And we have adopted that frequency of participation from the WEPAL And currently we do not Pay we do not need any kind of fee for PT participation So no no payment is expected from participating participant laboratories However, probably after two years of getting and getting in a participants some payment procedure could be devised In each round participating laboratories will receive one to two samples representing one to two soil types of Ethiopia and each sample With 300 to 500 grams Then results of each test items will be requested during result submission to the PT provider All eight soil laboratories of AR will be necessarily Participate in each round This is mandatory In addition other interested soil laboratories will be encouraged to participate Samples will be first sampled from a criteria fields representing a homogeneous soil type And the sample depth will be mostly from the root depth of 0 to 20 centimeter care will be taken during sampling Then samples will be sieved with 0.5 mesh size millimeter mesh size And then the the next step is homogeneity and stability studies So particles are difficult to mix with snow and need to be repeatedly subsampled and therefore after grinding Droid samples and sieved with 0.5 millimeter sieves The bulk sample will be divided into subsamples by using rotary sample divider Each sample will be subjected to homogeneity and stability test before dispatching to each participating laboratories Then homogeneity will be Studied and One parameter from the soil parameter is selected. That's the parameter is organ carbon analysis And stability test will also be performed And in general appropriate statistical design will be followed for the homogeneity and stability studies These are the choice of test methods the test methods commonly Used by Ethiopian soil laboratories. For example, moisture tester pH into methods EC exchangeability, ammonium, nitrogen, phosphorus with three methods And there is a unit and laboratories expected to report with these decimal digits And the rest Parameters are here, total phosphorus, sulfur, sodium, potassium, calcium, magnesium Organic carbon with wear clay and black weight addition method Organic matter, loss of ignition method, CEC, micronutrients and also heavy metals And all eight laboratories of air usually use above mentioned methods and also if other laboratories Use different meters They they can report with other method space requirement And during reporting the test result is test parameters need to be reported with Specific unit of measurement and number of significant figures. This is this all are will be included in the instruction And When we see the operation of professional testing scheme, these are the packaging, labeling handling and storage And also distribution packaging, zipper plastic bag and waterproof cardboard will be used Labeling, appropriate labeling will be used with a code And therefore each laboratories will receive sample with unique code Samples will be dispatched using a core or service And appropriate safety transport requirements and environmental conditions for the transport of pit items will be determined And communicated to the core or service All participant laboratories will be instructed on how to store samples and After analyzing the test results need to be reported before the deadline These are the deadlines in general procedures for dispatch and the receipt of pit samples will be established When the pity sample is suspected in homogeneity enough instability contaminated or deterioratory safe disposal mechanisms will be followed And in the data analysis and evaluation of results The results of sale pity will be collected either email or through fax Or etep and postal service after collecting the results the data set will be validated by Defining a range with which the result is assessed as satisfactory Consensus value for from participant laboratories will be Used as an assigned value, but it's difficult to To use those consensus values as an assigned value Due to the small participant laboratories And in general I saw 35 to 8 2005 version statistical methods will be used for analyzing the results During the results of the results values differing too much from me are marked as outliers And microsoft excel software Will be used but Definitely we have we have got some excel type of software from dr. Michael koh from stuttgart university And we are using that self-programmed software and all data will will have a Backup to eliminate potential loss of electronic data detail work instruction will be prepared During the statistical analysis And the participants performance will be evaluated by the obviously z score The following criteria will be used absolute value of z square less than or equal to two satisfactory And between two and three questionable performance and between Less than Three greater than series unsatisfactory performance the evaluation will will constitute variation between participants variation between methods or procedures possible source of error improvement suggestions recommendations and general comments The performance of the labs will be reported to To them through different mechanisms with maintaining confidentiality The report will enable the participating laboratories to compare the performance of The emitters with the result of other methods used Reports will be sent to each participating laboratories Sorry To each participating lab with within three weeks after the delay the final report will be authorized by the pt coordinator And this is the communication Usually we use the english language as a communication and we use we usually we will use the email for the communication And in the confidentiality each participating laboratories will have a unique lab code throughout communication The lab code is only used in order to keep confidentiality. Therefore all information provided the Participants treated as confidential unless a participant has Weaved this confidentiality when the result is the result is issued to uninterested third party The participant will be notified in writing and The first pilot pt for about a trail laboratories first. We have prepared the pt samples The sample is sampled from mithisols from hark station All the time culturally search center and the samples were air dried and crushed with mortar and pestle and finally sieved with 0.5 millimeter size And unfortunately, we didn't get At this time, we didn't get a rotary sample divider from our donor from ptv But we we we we divide the samples manually into eight parts through repetitive paste With a stepwise of a small portion of the sample from bulk sample and finally ready for homogeneity test And we we we test the homogeneity by using the organic carbon analysis And this is a And this is the homogeneity test This is the homogeneity test We have we have tested the samples for For about eight times And these are the results duplicate analysis and tested by Using the homogeneity test according to ISO 13528 And we get this homogeneity test self-programmed Excel software from Dr. Michael Koh from Stuttgart University And after testing the using this this procedure final is homogeneity test is okay And after getting this result, we have dispatched those samples to each participating laboratories And after getting The result is from eight participating laboratories. These are these are some parameters reported from eight Participant laboratories and For example pH organic carbon Bray 2 phosphorus total metrogen And these are the methods reported from each participant laboratories and To to see some some results of statistical analysis, for example organic carbon We can we can see from the next slide When we see the organic carbon results of eight participants laboratories, by the way, this This is analyzed by using a self-programmed software that we get from Michael Koh from Stuttgart University And these are the results reported from From Each participant laboratories. This is the mean the method is one which is a well-cleaned black method This is the z score And from the z square the assessment is s ss means satisfactory Q women's question heaven and There's no unsatisfactory performance evaluated from reported from eight participants laboratories So with this we have evaluated we have conducted a workshop After gathering all eight participants laboratories With the through the help of ptb project This is a detailed analysis organic carbon analysis Unfortunately, we didn't use the Consensus value Because participants laboratories are few And here we can see you can see pt provider harxella And this is the first round 2020 not 2019 we have planned 2019, but we have conducted in 2020 And this is the detail of analysis and pictorial representation of the results of the score The laboratory c Is good performance It's below 0.5 between 0 and 0.5 And when we see the laboratory e It's questionable in between minus two and minus three And the rest laboratories performed well in the case of organic carbon Musefa, can I ask you to please end your presentation in Okay, please Yeah And we have an experience visit pt coordinators i myself and Mr. Mehretu We do is the laboratory head Visited the international pt providers from september 1 7 2019 At la nuff disburg germany at wepall one indonesia netherlands At eastward stuttgart germany and the purpose was to just organize a local pt proficiency testing to intepia I think this My last slide the way forward just The rotary sample divider is purchased from the ptb projects And this is under the custom clearance in the And in the next purchase of certified reference sample for the assigned value because we have difficulty to get assigned value And also the next lapis pt launch workshop to gather most of sale labs of utopia To get just enough participants But currently we have only eight participant laboratories, but to increase The participant laboratories out of 68 sale laboratories exist in tepia we should Have a launching workshop And then definitely after getting the rotary sample divider We will conduct the second pt provision for more than 10 sale labs Thank you very much Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm sorry to put you in hurry Because we are getting late on the agenda Thank you Maybe we can take some question now I see a hands up From alan evans from portugal Alans, you have any question for musefa? Hello everybody It wasn't really a question. It was more of a comment as the gentleman from the british geological survey mentioned that The units really need to be harmonized And I think if I was reading and watching the presentation correctly I think Mr. Musefa had two different units for the exchange Capacity of soils. I think he added in milli equivalents per 100 grams and also in centimoles of charge per kilogram And if that is true Perhaps just a suggestion that maybe is it should be harmonized to Just use the the international standard organization units To make things easier for whoever participates in the scheme to know which units they're reporting in it and even though the Results themselves Exactly equal. I think maybe just consistency. You should consider something like that That's it. Sorry Thank you. I don't know if musefa or anyone else wants to rebuke to it If not, we can read the question for you musefa Why we're only eight participations on the pt You mentioned that at the start you mentioned at the start of the presentation That there are 68 soil laboratories in etiopia or did i misunderstand something? Yes. Yes There are about 68 soil laboratories, but the first pilot pt provision was For only eight participant laboratories But why is that because of financial resources? Because you started to test your capacity in organizing the pt What's the reason behind working with only eight laboratories? Yeah for two reasons the first one is uh All all laboratories did not have any kind of information Whether there's a local pt provider That's why I mentioned there should be a launching workshop With the help of ptb and minister of art culture Because such kind of starting in pt provision locally Is so much interesting So there should be a pt launching workshop and the second reason is we are we are exercising So exercise should be started with a small number And after getting much experience, we will increase the number of participants Okay, thank you very much another question for you very quickly because we are getting late What do you see of your soil at 0.5 millimeters? I don't I do know that for particulate organic methods. So pom 4000 53 micrometer 0.4 millimeter is often required. I always have duty to explain why when submitting papers to the international journals many. Thank you for the response Usually Different journals in different papers For example organic carbon and total nitrogen should be analyzed by using 0.5 millimeter Cif sized samples I just take this reference And also to get a homogeneous samples Normally a soil is defined When it is below two millimeter But we use only 0.5 millimeter sift soil samples because we didn't analyze texture analysis or clear sand infraction That's why we use only 0.5 millimeter Okay, there is another question about the units of measure. I don't know if this was already answered in the chat Yeah, but the question about the pt value. I think is very interesting And also and why using two different units for the same thing? Yeah, I don't know if that was already answered Yeah, how do you get the true value of pt? Is it mean of a participating lab? But I think you said no or one of reputable lab I wanted to ask that question. The way is the reference coming from? We set the true value with the help of Dr. This this is a very important point because It's impossible in fact to get The true value in the soil because you you have to have a consensus value or refer to a reference lab And I think when you said you have not enough lab We come back to the presentation that knock made not money The chairperson of a gloss land made at the beginning One benefit for you Would be if you can provide enough sample to gloss land But we spread your sample in a gloss land pt And you have the analysis made by sometimes 100 labs around the world So you would have a consensus value Calculated from a large set of labs and you still have the soil in your country So it can be a reference material Valuable for you and all the countries of the region because I have seen one of the neighboring country Djibouti that asked to have some contact with you And I think it would be good if you can make some contact with them and they can participate to your lab also Because so one more country in the region or some other countries in the region can join with you But I think this will be discussed later in in the in that meeting For for for your information For the next pta round We definitely we will use a certified reference for example That that most probably we get from weapon For the assigned value Not the consensus value because This is Expensive and and the financial aspect I think is one of the things that the gloss land that is feo that united nation Would like to solve to have just like let's say participatory research and participatory Helping and networking to avoid All that financial problem that all the countries and all the labs cannot face It's a very important point and Really congratulation to the way you have organized the things. It's very professional I'm very much impressed Congratulation Okay, is there any other question for Ethiopia? So for musefa Either in the chat or by rising your hand If not my proposal is that we stop here and we start at two again with the case of belgium So that uh, we we close on schedule and we break for lunch All fine okay, so We we close it here for this morning and I see you again using the same link at two p.m Okay, and we start with belgium See you in one hour. See you in one hour. Thank you very much. Bye. Bye everybody All right, see you