 You can now follow me in all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button. Another one of his friends who said, he was sitting outside a pub. With about three of his mates having a drink. And Ron pulled up lovely sunny day and when the wind were down and said, strategy coming for a ride felly mae genful ardechrauuch wedi fy use. Felly roi gim. Fy modd, гynawch i fawn i gyblio os yn ddefnyddio fy m看到. Fy modd iddo yn dod, go modd o'n g� children finnedd. Fyddi gwyndwe, no nida i ad steadily. Fyddi gweithio hefyd ddim iawn. Os mae'n ei dr satisfactory mewnmenau sydd wedi flood Instonell yför le mereu. Fydd wedi cael cychwynnig rhae, fodwn wedi bod ni rhaq yna maca cyn feddwn Sabaitholyn Gweith avoiding. Fi wneud yn gwneud, It went Get In. He said there was a body in the boat. Many people, do you think, run cold? Ron said about 13. I think that was probably about right. It's a mass madr. The judge went, I don't believe a word, anybody said about her. He said, she... They are trying to make me believe she was the smallest cog in the machine. She was the machine. Mae'r maenion hefyd bydda'n taithio hwn. Mae hwn gallai ddadlen yn ddechrau i'ch dal i'r dddorol. Felly er ffordd o'n ddod o'r llwyfer? Felly, felly, ewch i hi'n ddod i'r rai yn ddod i hyn yn ddayl yn candillol, ac yn ddod i'r môl yn ddod i chi. I chi'n popeth yma wrth gyrdd os hynny, dyn i ni, a wedi chi ddweud allan o'r ddweud o'i ddweud, ac yn gallu gwneud y gallu gwybod yn ysbryd yn mynd i'r rhaid. Rhyw gwrs. Yn ymgyrchu hyn, yn ymgyrch yn Llynedd Calffi. Hyw yw Llynedd? Rhaid, yn gwych. Rhaid i'n gwybod. Rhaid i'ch gwybod yn gwybod yn y sŵl, Llynedd. Rhaid i'ch gwybod yn ddiddangos i'n bod. Rhaid i'n gwybod yn gwybod. Yn ymgyrch yn ysbryd, mae'n rhaid i'r amddrwynt. I do. 18 ymddor i'r mydda. Mae'r bwysig, y cerddyn nhw, rwy'n mynd i'r cyfrifio'r ysgol, mae'r cyfrifio'r ysgol yn ymddangos, ac mae'n cael ei ddau. Mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio. Mae'r hwn yn dda'r hwn, mae'r ysgol yn gwneud y Llyfrgell. Mae'r hwn yn ei gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio, reading because obviously very deep very dark yeah very, fascinating story we have met all the criminals of the underworld of London but you were your lady boss of London you were the lady gangster basically yeah whose life now live is wonderful easy no dramas no dramas now enjoy writing books I know a lot of people who know you as well I will be trying to get you on the show for a while. We'll plug your books straight away, which is a locksmith. This is a new book that's out. This is the new book. It comes out tomorrow on the 18th. Or should I not say tomorrow? Yeah, no, it's out anyway, so time this goes out will be out, so we will leave the link in the description. It comes out on the 18th. It starts off as an honest family, and through adversity, things go bad for them, and the daughter decides that to keep him afloat, she decides to step her foot into the murky underworld. It's going to be one little job, and this one job, obviously, it's never one job, because one job becomes two jobs and three jobs, and by the end of the book, they're major players in the underworld. It's not about your true story, but about your life as well. It's not quite as excited as Ruby's, but I suppose there's a bit of me in Ruby, yeah. I always go back to the start with my guests. Where you grew up and how it all began? I grew up in the East End. I actually grew up in Stepney. I was one of nine children. I've got three brothers and five sisters. I had a very normal everyday upbringing. My parents both worked. My mum was a market trader. My dad was a blacksmith. The last thing I ever thought I would be was dealing in the underworld. We spoke earlier, and a lot of people who came on that show had abusive upbringings and a lot of trauma. They kind of go down to the violent route, but you had a strong, steady upbringing. I had a very loving kind upbringing. My parents were lovely. We didn't have a lot. But whatever we had, my mum and dad always made sure that we had enough. As I say, we grew up very honest lives. As in my new book, we all knew the people next door or around the corner that was selling the knocked-off stuff and whatever. Unlike Ruby's parents who wouldn't buy anything, I must admit my mum would buy the occasional thing if it came up. But I actually never got involved in crime until I actually met my first husband. Is that Mickey? That's Mickey. And he was a bank robber? He was a bank robber. You were 11 years old, this red roller, the Rolls Royce. It's very important because you were 11 years old, but that will be connected to what we're going to speak about at the end. I was 11 years old, and my mum and dad were his old fan, his old works fan. And we'd been to visit one of my aunts. And on the way coming back, we stopped at the lights and this beautiful big red car pulled up. And there was a man sitting with a big cigar in his mouth. And this lady sitting with a fur coat. And when I think back now, it must have stunk a smoke and been far inside that car. But to me, this was really magical. And I looked and went, look at that beautiful big red car. One day, I'm going to have a red car like that, and I'm going to have a fur coat. And my dad said, I hope you do darling. He went, because if you do, that's a roller, a Rolls Royce, the best car in the world. He said, and that means you've arrived. And that was my inspiration that I wanted to end up with a Rolls Royce one day. Oh my, I hope you know that. The funny thing was, all through my life when I was doing what I was doing, I bought Mercedes, I had a Porsche, I had all different cars. I never had a Rolls Royce. And I got a Rolls Royce at the end of my sentence with my last husband, who actually was the only honest man I'd ever gone out with. And he had a red Rolls Royce. It's my dad that all the years I've done madness to try and get the money to get a Rolls Royce. You end up getting one that was legit. Because I didn't even know that he had this car. It was towards the end of my sentence and you used to be able to go out on a Sunday. You had to be collected at the time to be taken out. And a couple of my friends, girlfriends came and took me out for a book to meal. And we got in the restaurant and it was a bit early and they said, oh we're busy, do you mind waiting? And he was sitting with a friend and there was an empty seat next to him. And my friend said, do you want to see? And I sat next to him and started chatting. And he said, oh you're out with your friends. I said, yes, I'm out with a friend of mine. You know, you just chat to strangers and all of a sudden he's telling me that he's been divorced twice. And I said, oh well I've been widowed once and divorced once. No telemetry. So I told him this. So then he went, are you with anybody? I said, no. He went, can I take you out for a meal? So I said, yes, you certainly can, but not till next Sunday. So he said, well I'd like to take you out maybe Thursday, Friday. I said, no, I can only go out on a Sunday. So he said, why is that? So I said, because I'm in prison. So he laughed and he went, how can you be in prison? You're in a restaurant. So I said, no, I'm in open prison and explained that I could go out. And he said, OK, that's fine. At that time he never asked me even what I was in prison for. I think he thought if it's an open prison, it must be saying quite minor. And he said to me, I'll pick you up next Sunday. Give me the address. So I was in the prison and it's like a stately home in Sutton Park. And all the staff sit and have their tea break in the hall. And when everybody goes out, they see who comes to collect them. And I was still waiting. I was the last person. And I thought, oh, he's not going to turn up. I've made myself look stupid because I've said to everybody, oh, I'm going at this man's going to come and take me out. So I said to the one of the girls cleaning, will you give me a call if somebody pulls up? So she went, yeah, of course I will. And about five minutes later, she shouted up the stairs, Linus, he got a red roller. And I thought a red roller, it was just so surreal. And I came down and there was this red Rolls Royce outside. And he was standing outside going, waving like this. And I said, yeah, that's him. And one of the staff went, we've took the number. If that's a crook, you know, you're back inside. I said, he's not a crook, he's a businessman. Is that what I said to you? Yeah. Association. Yeah. Because something, they just looked and thought Rolls Royce, that's got to be a crook. Two and two together in it. Majority of people have good rollers are. Dodgy, as sad as it is. So that was it. They checked him out and said, no, he's bona fide. And I got engaged while I was in prison. And when I come home, we had a big wedding. But he said, I told him the story when we were out this first day for a meal. And he said to me, I can't imagine you've ever done anything. You look so lovely and sweet. I said, well, actually, I might as well tell you the truth. And I said to him, I've been in prison for armed robbery. And he was going, I know this is a wind up. And I went, no, it isn't. And then I said, I've been in prison for murder. I said, but I didn't do it. So he went, no, well, I believe that because I can't imagine you'd ever do anything like that. And I said, no, I didn't. I said, but I haven't told him how long I'd been in prison. And it never scared him off. Bless him. Then we ended up when I got home having this big wedding. And he unfortunately died five years ago. How many husbands, how many things have you been engaged? I've been engaged four times and married three times. And then everyone dead, every single man? No, I don't think Danny's dead. He was my co-defendant last time. So you've been through a lot of pain as well and a bit of trauma. Seen when you're teenage years, like 14, 15, 16 before you met Mickey? I never met Mickey till I was 19. Oh, so you were still, what was your life like then before the run-up? Before it, it was so ordinary. I left school, I got a job in an office as a receptionist, and I used to go out with my friends on a Friday night and go to the pictures on a Sunday night. And it was just a normal life that everybody lived. So it seemed like Mickey came involved in your life? Was that a turn-on? Did you know who it was? I didn't know. No, what happened? I saw one of my cousins down the market and she had her husband with her. And he said to me, oh, I suppose you're still with that dickhead. So I said, no, I'm not. And I'd finished with this guy that I was with. He went, oh, you're on your own? I said, yeah, you went perfect. You come into a party Saturday. So I said, all right, what's that for? I said, oh, friend of mine, he's just come out of the big house. And at the time, I didn't even know what the big house was. And I went, what's the big house? He went prison. I went, all right. So he said he's just done eight years for arm robbery. He said, and we're having a party for him. But we've all met people. We mean we've got married, whatever, and he's on his own. So will you come so he don't feel out of place? And I went, all right then. And I decided to go and then I decided on the night I got all ready but changed my mind. And my cousin phoned and said, Lynn, please come. Because George is getting embarrassed. He said you were coming. And she said, there's a cab on its way for you. So I had no choice. I did go. And for some reason I just imagined that everybody in prison must be really ugly. It was, I mean such a... You're not fine, I'll have to be fair. No, I mean actually I'm not. But for some weird reason I just presumed because all the films you used to see all the baddies was ugly and all the so-called goodies was all the good-looking ones. And I thought, no, I don't fancy that. It's some ugly man. And he got told that I was going to turn up. And he said to me, I didn't want you to turn up. I thought, what sort of girl hasn't got a bloke at 19 years of age? She must be a right old dog. So Neve Roberts really wanted to go. And when I walked in and I see him talking to George and I thought, oh, he's nice. And he looked across and George went, come over. And walked over and he went, Linda, Mickey, Mickey, Linda. And the rest was history. When did you start finding out that it was... You knew it was an android, wasn't it? I knew that was... The man before that, your boyfriend... Before that it wasn't. I didn't. I went out for him. I know that is how naive I was. I went out for him for a couple of years. And I used to say, why don't we go round your house? I know because my dad don't like people coming in the house and my mum's not well and all these excuses. And my mum went, it's not right. Oh, sorry. That's okay. So you knew. That's okay. You just leave that. We just go with the flow. So you have seen that he was married and you didn't know? No. And then by the time I did find out, well, the way I found out was that my mum had a little boutique at the time. And she used to let people come in and pay off the clothes. And this girl come in with a baby and picked a dress out and she said, oh, can I leave a pound or whatever? It's like five quid or something. And my mum went, yeah, of course you can. And then another woman came in and started talking to her. And she'd already said her surname. And then she was chatting and she said, oh, is your terry still on the coal? She went, yeah, it's on the coal, but it'll be going back to the scrap next week. And my mum thought, I know who that is. So she's come home. My dad's come home from work. And she went, right, I've been waiting for you father. Get your coat on, we're going out. So my dad went, where are we going? Cos my mum was the boss. So she said, right, this address, where is it? My dad said, oh, I know where that is. And she went and knocked on the door with me standing next to her and went, your husband's going out with my daughter. And I thought, oh no, I don't believe this. And my dad, I think, wanted to be swallowed up. And that was my first boyfriend. First heartbreak, your heartbroken. I was actually. What did your mum and dad take off, Mickey? My dad liked him, but he wasn't really happy that he was a crook. My mum said she liked him, but for the same thing, she went, Lord, it's really, she went, he's just done eight years. He's just come home. She went, what future have you got? What is he going to do? What's he going to do for a living? I said, I don't know. He'd probably get a job. And I said to my mum and dad said, what job are you going to do? He said, the job I've always done. I'm an arm robber. And I thought, well, I can't really say that to my mum and dad. And I went, he's looking. He don't know what he wants to share. But that was actually. It's crazy though that a clean cut girl, because the photos are you and your younger, you are a beautiful, beautiful young girl. You can see why all the bad men, it's like a trophy as well, having a good looking girl. So when you were only 19 and 20, do you think you could have been manipulated into that life as well? I think I was because I was actually really quite sheltered. I mean, as my younger sisters got older, they were allowed to sort of go out and do a lot more than me. I was the eldest girl. So it was, no, you've got to be in the 11 and you've got to do this and it was. You were wrapped in cotton wool? Yeah, more so, I think. And especially with my elder brother. If any boys used to walk me home and they'd stand on the doorstep and kiss me, the letter box would come up and go, do yourself some fire. Fuck off. And I was going, Mum, I'll never get a boyfriend with him. How old was Mickey? Mickey was 28 or 27 when I met him. Still young then as well. How many banks did he do? So when he was coming in with money, I had the getting ready, Balaclava's ready, getting the guns ready. Were you there at that time? Was that an excitement for you? Not in the very beginning. Obviously because I was his girlfriend, so I wasn't in that. Circle? Circle. But then when we moved in together and I had my daughter, and Mickey couldn't drive because he'd gone away so young, he never learnt to drive. So he always used to say, I'll be the anchorman, which is the first one that goes in and the last one that comes out, which is the worst job to have when you're doing that. And he went, I don't drive, so I'll step up and I'll always do that. So he was really popular to do. To do the jobs. Can I get yours then a lot more because people knew he was first and then last out? Yeah, I think he had such a good name and everybody used to say, you can stand on Mickey. Mickey goes in first, Mickey comes out last to compensate for the fact he didn't drive. Did you think he had something to prove as well constantly doing that? No, I don't know if he did or not. I don't know. But he was quite proud of the fact that everybody knew that that was his job. He would go in. 100%. Yeah, so you could go in and you don't know what's going to be in there when you first go in and you're still the last one to come out. So it is the worst position to take but he always did do that. But it's the one that gets the most respect. So when you started, when was the first time you'd seen him going to a job? Were you nervous? Were you scared? Yeah, I was actually. And the very first time was when we were living together and my daughter was only young a few months. And he said, look, I'm going to have the guys around here because where he didn't drive, they all drove. And they would come round and sit round the table. And in the end, become quite surreal that they'd be sitting there with big maps out and going, right, we're looking at this one or where there's a possibility of this one. If we have this one, we need free people. If we have this one. And it was like a military operation. And it'd be, well, what's the answer on that one? And I'd be going, anyone want another cup of tea? Anyone want to sandwich and then being nosy? I'd sort of be going and sort of looking at it all. And I sort of started going because I drove. He didn't. So he used to say to me, once we got to that point, Linda had drive me round so I can see what I think for else and whatever. And they sort of see like a building site on their go. There's a hole in there. Yeah, that's a thing we can do. They always planned it as if they were going to get caught. And that is the best way to do it. Well, because if you go thinking, yeah, I'm going to do it and I'm getting away with it. And you go right. And when we come out, we drive down here. Well, you might not be able to drive down there because there might be anything. There could be an accident. There could be anything. So you've got to think, well, I can't go down there. So where do I go? Right. So we can go down this way. But if we go this way, how do we get from here? So they always said to plan three, four routes thinking, well, if that one you can't do, you can do that one or you can do this one. And I think that's why they were so successful because they always planned so many routes. So it wasn't just a kamikaze job? No. A lot of people nowadays just get in and out. Just run in and out. Yeah, they really did it. To perfection, basically. Yeah. And you'd go down turnings where there'd be sort of, you know, like the bollards in the road. So you can't go drive through, but they'd go right, well, we'll have a couple of motorbikes outside. They might not even be used, but they were there in case you had to run through and there's a police car behind you. But if you've got motorbikes, you can carry on their stock. So I learnt from them, listening to them, exactly how you did everything. And I used to actually go out with him so to do the sort of recys. Ysafiolwch. Ysafiolwch. How long was it to plan a job? Couple of weeks, couple of months, days. Sometimes would be a couple of months. Sometimes might only be a couple of weeks. The actual job itself would be like minutes. But the planning of that job was, as I say, like a military operation. Was there ever a number in his head for you if he's got the love of his life, if you've got the kid, he's the love of your life to say, look, let's get a certain amount of money and let's do the tours, maybe go abroad or whatever. But the greed always wins. Was there ever a target in your mind or his mind to get out? Well, he said he wanted a nice house. And it was the beginnings of the times when people were saying about Spain. Up until then it was, you wanted a caravan down wherever. But then it was, people started going, oh no, go to Spain. And it was sort of the ambition, I think, of most villains all get a place in Spain. So his thing was, we get a house and we get a place in Spain. So he sort of had a goal, but whether he'd actually get to that goal and it would have stopped is enough. That's a definite story. Yeah. How many jobs do you think he'd done while you were with you? Oh, quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a gout in any jobs? Not just surveillance but driver? Not with him. I didn't do anything until he died. And how was that then? Because I know when he was putting, we used to take the shotgun shells out, we used to take the gunpowder out and put cotton wool in it. Is that correct? Yes, yeah. On the actual day that he died, the night before he got his gun out and it was so an off-shot gun and he was sitting and he tipped all the pellets out. And then he put wadding in and then he sealed the top back up with candle wax and sealed them. And that was the first time I'd ever seen him do it. And I said to him, why are you doing that? And he said, because it's December, it's a supermarket. There's going to be women and children about. If I've got to pull the trigger, I know I can't hurt nobody. All I'm going to do is make a noise. He said, so there's no way. He said, but if I think I'm going to be confronted by security or police or whatever, he said, I'll just go bump and they can think right. He said it gives you that little bit of an edge. But he said I will not have anything in the cartridges. So that is why the next day when he was shot dead and they tried to tell me, their version was that he faced them like it was the Wild West and when it shoot me or you. It was like, are you for real? And I said, you shot him through the back. And they went, no, no, no, we've already everything's done. I said, no, you shot him through the back. No intelligent person would stand with an empty gun and look at somebody with a loaded gun and go, it's me or you. And I thought, they're talking like it's a film. And that was the start of my battles with the police. So you become an authority then? Well then I really sort of went into it because obviously all these friends were coming round and going, right Lynn, what's the SP? And I said he was shot through the back. And they said, are you sure? And I said yes, because he sat and took all the cartridges out. All the little things out the cartridges. So then we started investigating and in those days everybody knew a copper. So you always got news of what was going on and what was happening. And we eventually found out that yes, he was shot through the back. The policeman who did it was on his own. We were told that he was off duty and he'd still got the gun out so he'd got the gun out illegally. It should have been back in the station. We were told what we were needed to ask for. The duty roster, the gun book. Suddenly there was accidentally somebody had knocked cup of tea over one so it was illegible and the other one had gone astray. But everybody knew what really happened. And they said we've already done the autopsy. He was shot through the front and the bullet come out of his back. And I said I want my own autopsy. So we went to a solicitor and the solicitor said right, I'll get one of those people that does the autopsies. He said we go for the best one in the land and then whatever the answer is it can't be disputed. And they did the autopsies. Oh, first of all we got, told Jess we've got this guy to go and do it. And when he went to the mortuary they said oh the body's lost. What? So he said you can't lose a body what are you talking about? So contacted the solicitor and said I don't know what's going on here but they've said they've lost the body. And we had to go to Colt to get Mickey's body back. I mean these... How long later? It was a few days later and they said you cannot lose a body. This body must be returned for the coroner to do what he has to do. And you've got 48 hours to return the body. So then the body did turn up and our autopsies stated he was shot through the back and the bullet come out the front. See then, but was the copper not as a flying squad? Was it the Sweeney? In those days they were like the Sweeney. They really were. Who was on a job with him? Was that because he was always last out? Yes. There were three and two had got in the car and the people there was quite a lot of witnesses and they said he was locked out of the car and the car drove off and he jumped on the back of the car and when he was spread or eagled on the back of the car that's when he was shot. So some did lock him out the people he was working with. Is this Ron? I never knew that he ended up, it was Ron who locked him out. And this is the man who was obsessed with you. So after Mickey killed how was your life then? What was the plan? Was it just the case of I want to get into crime myself? I think at the time well I was just demented I think because I remember as I got told by Mickey's brother Mickey's dad all I could hear was somebody screaming and screaming and screaming and I heard somebody going slap around the face she's hysterical and I was going slap around the face she's hysterical but it was obviously in my head I was saying it and it was me that was screaming and I think and I still say now something changed in my brain that day and it never changed back until I got arrested all those years later. Did you just kind of have a lot of fuck it button then? Yeah, I think I did. So what kind of who are we involved with after Mickey? Did you have any other girls around you or other women or was it just you and the gangsters? It's funny that how you can be conditioned to end up thinking like they always say but show me your friends and I'll show you your future. You just become part of that no matter what your upbringing was. And they respected me so much and they would really say well what does Linda think? In the end I sort of had the final say on everything. The brains? Yeah, so weird. Did anybody ever say to you that listen you're going down the wrong way or was people too scared of you? No, I mean some people used to say to me Lynn are you doing the right thing and I went yes. That was it, yes I am. What was your mum and dad saying at that time after Mickey? I mean my mum and dad were really really upset when Mickey died and Ron suddenly came into my life and I was really rock bottom from Mickey and all of a sudden Ron was there and he really played a game to get me really did and even there was like a lot of the people they'd done benefits, they did a couple of benefits for me and at the first one I was standing at the door and we were saying oh thank you for coming thank you for coming and Ron came in and he there was a big bottle of Chanel perfume and he went this is for you and I went oh thank you and he went are you okay so I said just thank you and he went in and I mean going back now Mickey's been dead over 40 years so at the when we went into the hole and they said right we're going to do some auctions and there was a case of wine and he said starting the bid off and people I think it was like 30 quid 40 quid and he went £1,000 so they went £1,000 don't suppose anybody's going to top that I mean £1,000 42 years ago it was a lot of money so he went right sold to Ronnie Cook so he walked over put the ground down and he went I'll raffle it again and just went and a couple of people went to me be careful in he's such a dangerous man and I went well what's he doing he hasn't done anything but I think other people could see what he was doing and I couldn't see it cos you were vulnerable so people always say he's told you so he's always the bastard in it I told you so but you would have probably just needed that other figure there kind of controlling power freak the money as well I don't know how you were with people with money as well money can buy you anything I believe and it's scary how much people love money and how people can be manipulated by it so was he a big strong man very dangerous he wasn't big he was very strong I think he was only about 5 foot 8 5 foot 9 but he was really strong but his strength was that he was a nutcase and even all the big tough mates that was Mickey out at the time when you don't take Ron Cook on because you can't win him if you ever fight with him and you win you've lost cos he will come back and kill you and he was on your leaf waff Mickey before Mickey get killed just only a couple of months prior and Mickey had said to me oh I've got a new guide that I'm working with so I said alright and the only time I'd ever seen him we were going out on a Saturday night and I've got already got dressed just had this sort of pale blue silky dressing gown I'm tired of wearing my waist and there was a knock at the door Mickey was in the shower and I opened the door and he was jogging on the spot in a tracksuit and he said oh it's Mickey there so I said he's in the shower I'll call him so I went Mickey there's somebody here for you he said I'll tell him it's Ron so I said it's Ron so he went I'll tell him don't worry I'll come back tomorrow and Ron said to me from that day he looked at me and fell in love with me he said and it's all your fault everything that happened after that so this is before even Mickey was killed or anything do you think potentially Ron killed Mickey well I think yes he locked him out of the car do you think he could have shot him and I think he was thinking I had to get rid of him and he took that opportunity I don't think maybe to think he would have got shot but to get cold he would have got 15 years so I think he was thinking might I can get rid of you take him off the cars and then he can slip in to make him happy with you but he actually died so so how did the relationship end up starting with Ron as I say he came to this benefit so he bought you basically then he came to the next one and he did the exact same but 1,000 pound done that and he came around and he was look it's a few grand anything you need for the kids anything I can do for you blah blah blah and he was so polite and really gentlemanly he was the complete opposite of what everybody told me he was and he first of all said to me can I take you out for a meal I said oh I won't go out because Mickey's not been dead very long and he said oh no no just as a friend he said ask one of your brothers or one of your sisters I'm saying to come and my younger brother said I'll come and he came out and we went out sort of every week for about 6-7 weeks and then in the end he said to my brother do yourself a favour I don't want you coming out for us no more my brother went he went lean what are you doing but by then it was too late did you fall in love with him not really no do you think that was just for security for yourself as well maybe I don't know it was as I say I was my thoughts in those days were very very different really different did he not used to drive in the car with dead bodies in the boot what were you thinking then though but I didn't I mean he actually came to my house I'm laughing because it's is that not an out is that not your car to say right wait a minute I need to go here or were you scared of him but you couldn't go you couldn't go he said to me you're mine you can't go anywhere was that a turn on for you though that somebody had that power over you really because I thought I don't like this because I've never had this before Mickey was the most easy going person in the world and I could say all my sisters have phoned up can I go out but yeah it's fine do what you want to do and I'd go out my sisters or friends had phoned me out do you fancy doing yeah there you go fine you're going to enjoy yourself Mickey never had to ronded I mean the first he never ever bought anybody into my home and one Saturday he said to me I'm bringing a friend for a meal and I want you to get exactly what I asked you to get and I went God he must be really special you've never ever invited anybody and he said no he is really special and it was such a simple meal he wanted a prawn cocktail he wanted steak with all the trimmings he wanted his cheesecake and he wanted the white wine et cetera and I said yeah that's fine I'll get all that he said but it's just for me and him not for you so I said that's fine so I said okay so done his meal served it all up and I went and sat chatted in with one of my neighbours an hour and then I came back and he said right I've put on the bed what I want you to wear I'll be back about eight so I said yeah okay and this other guy said to me oh it's really lovely to meet you so he said oh we're out tonight then he went well we are me and her I don't know about you and I remember him saying that and this guy the thing I can remember he had really beautiful teeth this guy lovely lovely teeth and Ron came back picked me up we went to the needle gun we went in ordered to drink and he said to me I'm going to be about 30 minutes don't talk to nobody and tell me who comes in and who goes and when he came back he said to me oh if you spoken to I said I haven't spoken to anybody not really anybody coming in and afterwards he said to me I said oh you didn't bring your friend he said yeah I did he was in the boat so the person he was talking about was in the boat there? he said he's not there now I've got rid of him I've put him over acne marshes and then the next day he said to me don't get all the newspapers well Ron never read the newspapers so he could but not very well and he said to me he can't get the newspapers and he ran all through them threw them all on the floor he went that's weird so I said well he said he's not in the papers I went will it won't be in the papers if it happened last night it'd be in tomorrow's papers if they find him and the next day it was in the papers he went oh good I'm glad they found him what were you thinking then did you already know it was a cycle path? well that was it exactly could you not leave then I mean there was one of his friends another one of his friends who said he was sitting outside a pub with about three of his mates having a drink and Ron pulled up lovely sunny day and went the wind down and said trancy coming for a ride and he went no not really I'm having a drink with my friends so he went no come come and have a drink with me and he went go somewhere and he went no no no I'm fine here he went okay then he said oh does the favour if I flip the boat can you get my jacket out he said no I should have realised then why would you want a jacket it's a boiling hot day he clicked the thing he shut it he went get in he said there was a body in the boat any people do you think Ron killed? Ron said about 13 and I think that was probably about right last mother of I don't know a long sentence in the jail to get away from the crackpot man that's nuts to see that but it's like people that knew him all said Lynn he tops people you can't ride with him was it a hit man? I think he would just do it the buzz of it I mean another time I was in a pub with him and my sister-in-law and a guy come in quite a few of them come in there was somebody out on a home leave really drunk and he looked over he went oh Ron and he come over he went hello Ron how are you blah blah blah and Ron was going yeah I'm fine I'm fine and I thought oh he's really drunk this guy and it all of a sudden he stood on my foot and Ron went he stood on my foot so he turned around he went well it's only an old slag isn't it well that was it you could hear a pin drop and Ron went what did you say do you know who that is do you've just insulted he said that's Linda Calvi so he was going like as if he ever knew Linda Calvi right so he said Mickey Calvi's widow and you've just insulted her and you've called her that and he went oh sorry mates he went get on the floor and kiss her feet and ask her to say so ask her to let you off so he ended up getting on the floor kissing my feet I felt so embarrassed and there's all these other big like this all standing over going as if oh what is going on here and he's kissed my feet and went I'm sorry I'm drunk and I didn't know and Ron's standing behind him going so I went no sorry I can't say I can't accept it so he's gone please and that Ron's going to me like this so I've gone I can't say sorry and Maureen with that thank God to come over and went Ron stop it she went get up mate go over with your friends and that was it Do you think he could have killed him potentially? I think he possibly might have done afterwards That was a green light for you to say except your apologies for him to say right I'm going to kill you so I don't know but I don't know never see this this person ever again that's not a good thing though that's not a good thing but I mean it was it's like the sort of things you see in films when you go that's not that kind of thing but hearing that if he's killed 13 people that's worse than a film that's worse than a horror film I don't know why none of them would come over and and say anything Yeah fuck Anybody with a right frame I mean they're about five miles away from your gaff Were you scared to leave him in case he killed your dad? No but he said to other people if she leaves me I'll kill her son he said I don't like her son he looks like he's dead He must have really been jealous then and he said that he'll look like his dad he hated him Did that ever give you the fear every night that he could have potentially killed him because the jealousy and envy that you had for your ex-husband? I think possibly he could have You had to stick by it When was the first time you'd done a robbery? After he went away Ron? Yeah, Ron got caught on a robbery he got 16 years How was that a relief for you? Well I thought oh that's a relief that he got caught but he said to me he said you will wait won't you? he said because you've got a lovely son and I went yeah of course I will What a bastard What a manipulation Hello The funny thing was the one person who wasn't frightened of him was Brian Tharragood who had been his friend forever and he was the only one who could say to him shut up you dozy B and he'd go and he would accept it off of him I don't know they just had that thing and when I first met him I never liked Brian and Brian never liked me and so when Ron went away Ron said right he can't stand you you can't stand him so I'm going to get him to look after you while I'm away but Brian ended up falling in love with me Did you fall in love with him? I did actually So that stupid bastard put him on thinking that you hit each other We did at that time he was a favour you want me to look after her so he's put you on to you thinking he's been in watching over you He was an arm robber and that's when I started doing the arm robberies and what was it like doing your first job Were you driving or were you in the bank I was driving What was that feeling for you It was a strange it was sort of as if you were floating it was really I can't explain it it's like your feet wasn't on the floor do you know what I mean I think it was so yeah Was that your hoot That was it What did you get your first job I think we got about 15,000 How many involved Did you pick up the information that you'd learned from Mickey beforehand with escape routes plan A, plan B, plan C and people were just Were you calling the shots Were you telling people what's wrong In the end I was sure because Brian went look I'm brown, she's Brian's So it's like a Bonnie and Clyde kind of thing Fucking hell Linda I know enough I look back and think everybody goes to me we can't imagine you doing anything But you think that's why you got away with so much Probably You filled everybody I used to I used to get out of the car for shopping trolley put the money in there and then just wheel back and walk and I'd walk deliberately past where it happened and go what's happened and they go oh they've just been robbed and I go oh my god there's me with the money in the shopping trolley How was it then and many many jobs do you think you've done back then Oh loads Do you ever do a few in the same day same week Couple of times I mean one we did two in one day it was only just the second one was there and you just you just had to go So it was Brian obviously if you love somebody as well but obviously if you've got that mentality but everything that I do now is for my family I believe I'm going to create something special with what I'm doing is to get my family a better life so I don't want to put anybody in danger I've got a daughter 10 I know what men are like that was one of the worst so it's difficult but I don't think I could be taking my misses along with doing a bank job or doing that Did you ever say look you stay back today in case we get caught I know it just ended up but I mean men used to come say look can I be on something and I'd sort of give them a job interview to see if they were suitable and I didn't even say what I used to ask them tell me no I can't that was an interview for to do a bank job with did you know but who was up for it and who was not because a lot of people can talk you know yourself they talk a lot of shit but you can talk to people and then you can go no so you sensed that straight away so you were ingrained to then know who was real and who was fake so Ron so this is weird because the reason you get caught is not because you are making mistakes because Ron was getting suspicious you had a private detective on you no not Ron it was Brian's ex-wife she got a private detective on him because he told her that he wanted the house to be sold and she didn't want to sell it so she thought I'll get him checked her and I can get anything on him so this private detective followed him and saw us doing a job so he repelted it so that was it we were then put under surveillance but they I've got to have grudgingly give it to them they was very good we didn't know they was there so the private detective that Brian's masses has put on to use a report that to private detective and even the police said used was so good we didn't ever call you on your own merits you were too good so I suppose that was quite a as a compliment do you think you'd have ever stopped if you never got caught though? no I think I'd like to think I would because I've had no razor smith on the podcast it was an absolute diamond I've got so much time for no unless that he's done over 200 banks and every time he tried to quit sock back in I'd say I'd like to think I would but I got caught so and that was it I said that's the finish I will never ever do it again and you got one of the biggest sentences ever? I had the biggest at the time that I got seven years I had the biggest sentence in the Holloway because going back all those years ago women never got big sentences they'd get sort of six months a year 18 months what did Brian get? he got 21 years did they not take their blame though? yeah they did because what happened the three of us got arrested Carl, Gibney, Brian and myself and they said to the police okay we're banked to rights but we can do can we have a little deal here we hold our hands up to other things and you drop her out and they said well we do what we can do so they ended up he said she I want her to have bow so they said okay give us a cut of robberies she can have bow so they said this one this one this one and they sort of started negotiating and it was drop her down to the they said we can't she can't disappear she's got to be on the charge sheet but we're put her as the most minor person and we speak for her so that was the deal so for that Brian told him about 21 armed robberies and he went the froats dried up I can't tell you anymore and I thought I'll bless him and Carl told him me was on 15 of those so they did really did their best to help me what was Ron saying at this time then when he wanted to kill Brian he wanted to kill Brian when did he find out you're getting letters it's not like now you've got mobile phones oh no he didn't find actually read the newspaper and he was a Black Widow gang is that what you used to call the Black Widow gang because the Black Widow name is for you when you lost Mickey you were black for six months which I thought was normal yeah so what happened then when Brian got the jail you get the jail how was life in prison for you well I accepted it I committed the crimes so I accepted it it's not nice prison isn't nice how old were you what was I 30 36 how old were your kids then they were my daughter was 13 my son was 9 and how was that then well my daughter went and lived with my mum and my son went and lived with my older brother that's the heartbreaking thing even though I was a throm and and I said that's it I will never ever ever do anything again to be kept away from my kids I will never ever do it again how did people treat you in prison were you feared well the funny thing is I'm just ordinary really and you get some really tough hard girls in prison but I was never bullied I think my title stood me in good stead and I think the fact that oh she's the big arm robber that all the girls sort of in that world looked up to me and went oh wow she's the big arm robber so I was really treated well but there's a lot of bullying in prison a hell of a lot even more so with and the female prisons because there's no protection wings or anything no not in women's prisons so you're a maxim of everybody well did you do the full seven no I did I got two years knocked off on appeal and I think that was only because everybody else appealed and they all got two years off so I got two years off what did you do my fleef when you got out? I mean the judge when we got found guilty the judge I thought god I don't see no because everybody said in the cult she was the most minor person she was made to do it by these big men and blah blah blah and even the police said no she was made to do this we've truly believed she was a victim etc etc and the judge went I don't believe a word anybody said about her he said she they're trying to make me believe she was the smallest cog in the machine she was the machine and all of those the men were she was the governor he said I'm not fooled at all but I can't sentence her on that he said because the evidence hasn't been put to me he went but she should be getting 21 years today and I thought what so he said I'm gonna give you the biggest sentence I can and hope you don't get a day off on appeal and I've got seven years but because everybody appealed I appealed and I got two years off as well so it went down to five and then I did three years six months out of that just a long time for your first sentence what did you do with your life when you get out then I started a business with one of my sisters making curtains did you have though, talk to say though coming out to her I had a little bit of a vaccine she said do you fancy setting up something we do it together and I started doing a curtain, bespoke curtains and I was living a straight honest life who was that for you I actually was getting on quite well I mean I'd promised my kids that's it, never ever again and prison isn't nice and I certainly didn't want to go back there so I was quite happy with doing what I was doing were you worried that Dron was going to come out and kill you no I didn't think Ron would kill me I used to still visit him and what was the first visit like when I got taken from Holloway prison to go and see him so you were getting visits from prison I got taken to Franklin prison and when he walked in he had the newspapers under one arm and a box of chocolates under the other and he went put the newspapers down he went he said I'm going to have him killed no I'm not going to have him killed I'm going to kill him he went how could he embarrass me how could you let him do this to you did you play the innocent ghetto bro of course no I don't and he was like see even now he's upsetting you he fell for that and then at the end I thought it's alright I've won him round and then as a way they said I said well am I getting them chocolates are they melting under your arm and he went you can have them I wasn't going to give them to you I didn't believe you gullible bastard even though he's nutcases I've used some nutcases as well when you can tell the vulnerability and how gullible they are as well that's why they're so psychotic as well because they think they're doing nothing wrong so what happened then when you get out then then I wasn't so you were single lucky for men then free men that time so who came into your life next what man well there was no man in my life then there was Ron so just Ron and Ron was coming out like I used to for days out so he was getting home leaves but this day I used to take him home every week and would be indoors and then take him back and that was when he got murdered on one of those days and it was nothing at all to do with me at all and I certainly wouldn't have had somebody murdered in my house and it ended up it was Danny Race but I was not aware of this murder happening and who's Danny again? Danny was a friend of Brian's so were you having an affair with Danny or anything? no he was in prison so Ron get out home leave Danny was in your house no what happened Danny had got to the end of his sentence and I used to visit him for Brian and he said to me oh I'm home next weekend so I said oh lovely I'll come and get you and he went no I'm a big boy I can get on a train I don't need being picked up so I said to him what are you going to do so he said first stop is going to be the cemetery because his son had been killed in a car accident and I said well that's it I'll pick you up I'm not going to let you get on a train and walk around the cemetery and try and find a grave on your own I'll pick you up and that was the only reason I actually picked him up and there was people in court that said oh we saw Danny Rees in the cemetery with a blonde lady and he was sobbing on his son's grave that it was the truth that is the reason I picked him up and because he was so upset I took him to my house to I said go to my house and freshen up and I'll drop you off at your mum's and he was there and my son came in and he'd got a bootleg copy of some film that was there at the time like this sort of action and he went oh I've wanted to I'd like to see that so he went well can he watch it I said we can watch it I said if you like I'd cook you something to eat and you can watch it he said yeah thanks very much so I cooked him a dinner he watched the film with my son so obviously his fingerprints was in my house on the table in the kitchen he walked in he went oh I'll wash up for you I said no he went no no no I'll wash up so his fingerprints was in my house on the Monday I never saw Danny again after that on the Monday I picked Ron up as we walked in my house and I said to him I'll pick the milk up he picked the milk up and I don't even know if he'd put the milk down that's how quick my doll went bang that was the loudest bang and this man running big guy a hat down here and a top up here I didn't even realise it was Danny and he said in an Irish accent get down on please and Ron sort of just looked at him and went what's up mate everything in my life everything in my life is so weird and with that if I had a shot and I thought he'd been shot in the stomach because there was blood filling up this light colour jacket like blue jacket and he just stood there and he went to him like what's that mate and with that I'm in the cold bent in the corner and I'm sort of going like this and I'm thinking am I going to get shot I don't know what's going on now and with that there was another shot and then I heard this really horrible noise and there was blood squirted everywhere in my kitchen it was all down my back it was all over and as I looked round Ron was standing he went like that and it was Danny and he went you'll be alright and run out and he said afterwards I did that for Brian because Brian said he's got to be stopped to re-killer son he said no I lost my son so that's why I did it How was that then like all these men killing each other over you basically do you know what I mean it's fucking nuts like how was that as well seeing Ron dead in your kitchen oh that was awful that was horrible I feel hear that noise it was a horrible noise it was shot in the head no it was shot in the head and it was all over the kitchen and there was just this horrible noise of like I must have been all the blood because you've always pleaded your innocence you could have got out after subbing stretch but you ended up doing an 18 but the tale is as well that Danny was there couldn't kill him he shot him in the head but I had a forensic test done at that time no gun residue no and then they denied doing those tests why because the next day they said you didn't tell us you were going to Calvi and I said yes I did it's on my statement do you not have a lawyer with you no I didn't need one because when I run out of the house there was a copper in the street and he come running over and he sort of held my arm and went oh it's 1228 it's a murder literally a couple of minutes later there were so many police cars and they sang to him right what happened he said a guy run out she's just come out and there's somebody dead in there so they said right so obviously I was the only person left there they said is there a gun in the house no there wasn't so they took me as a witness which is actually what I was and they said right we can eliminate you while you're waiting for they didn't even say put one of those horrible white suits on or anything they said have you got somebody that can get you some clothes I'll phone my brother and my brother said yeah I'll get clothes and I'll get them off my wife and I'll bring them before he arrived they said we can do some gun residue tests on you would you like us to do them so I said just please so he said would you like a solicitor so I said why would I want a solicitor he said well if they come back positive we know it's you I said but I didn't do it he said well we're offering to expecting them to come back negative they done the tests they walked in and went they're negative it's a good thing you had that done two days later the head of the murder squad said what tests we never done no tests you didn't tell us you was that Linda Calvey and that's when they charged me so I said obviously there was a note DNA forensics to see if the blood squad did or anything it was on your back you couldn't have shot him one of the forensic officers who did my coat said the only way she could have killed him is if her arms was eight foot long I still to this day do not know how I got found guilty how were you feeling when you got charged with mother put love shocked really shocked where was Danny and all that to have a get charged they charged him they said we've finger printed we found his finger prints and they went but he's in prison so he said yeah I was around her house she picked me up I had a mill in her house on Friday and I said do you really think I was the only thing to do with this so he would have been in my house to put finger prints all over my house yeah plus you'd be done for conspiracy as well exactly so you ended up getting a seven but you could have got out earlier if you admitted it yeah and I ended up doing 18 years because I wouldn't say I did it so I didn't I didn't do it and it's not because I didn't have anything to go home to I've got a wonderful family I've got my children what did Danny get charged with I put his hands up and got you away with it he said to me when we first appeared in court he said tell him it was me and I said I can't I can't do that how can I say it was you so you ended up doing an 18 stretch listen there's a lot of men out here who think they're tough men and they're snitches sitting docks and point fingers you've just done an 18 stretch and you could have got away with it by I described him exactly but I didn't say who it was I described him so how was that then but he did say to me Linda tell him it was me I haven't seen him because on my license I couldn't have anything the association what about the craze in that how did they come into your life Reg from when I was away I've got a letter saying can I phone you and I said yeah and we started he used to ring me twice a week I used to get both keys and presence turn up from him every mad man in the world trying to get your number they've asked him are you Charlie Bronson and Reggie Cree Charlie used to ask every six months it's some fucking lists there Linda honestly it's some lists that obviously Reggie and Ron are dead as well Charlie hopefully get out next year but how did it why is that you've got that you must have something that these men fall in love with you you must be you must have some sort of magic that these men are all killing themselves over yourself even though these men are manipulating you but a part of me is saying that you've also manipulated every single one of them I'm sure you'll fit to then even Ron in the prison with his chocolates under his arm never gonna give you them so you in my mind played every single one of these men as well against them to your own advantage I've got to say yeah I probably did well a fair play as well but it's the whole life when you got your 18 then what was that going through your mind knowing that you had kids knowing that you could have admitted I mean the amount of people that said to me I'll just say you did it get home and I went no I cannot say I did it I was nothing to do with it Do you ever think that karma plays a part as well because all this shit you did get away with eventually catching up with you and balancing it out I suppose you can say that How hard was that for you being so stubborn though knowing that you had kids out here I know markets used to cry every time I went up for my parole hearings I used to say I can't say it I can't say it I can't say it Are you still feinting this day to get the election over times? I mean it may be deluded but now obviously everybody involved in that case is all retired long retired or dead I suppose that I think maybe one day especially now that sort of my books are coming out and whatever that somebody might sit there and go do you know what shit you tell the truth that is true and I still think one day somebody might go I was given those tests to do yeah they were negative that wasn't even in that room or somebody one day I really think may turn around and say I never know who's watching this would you need evidence to get a retrial well I don't think you could get a retrial now retrial could have already been done So when you were doing your 18 how was that when you eventually were you just getting used to that institutionalised? I never got institutionalised Why is that? Of course I always kept my head outside but he was in the prison my head wasn't never ever was Did you dream of just taking your mind down inside? No I used to always write to my children my brothers and sisters, my friends everything was, what's going on out there what's happening with you what are you doing I was your holiday I always kept my head outside How was it when Ron was murdered as well was there any remorse towards the man even all the shit that he'd done the bad stuff How you thinking fuck him I still don't know what I think Still numb to it all That could be a dangerous place to bat as well especially if you're bottling all that emotion up Do you know what I mean? Because I know when you were doing your 18 strikes that the worst day that you were when your daughter got married and you couldn't be there I mean she kept putting it off and in the end I wouldn't get married and she had this big wedding with loads of bridesmaids and it was that was my worst day and then when grandchildren were being born and all the things that you sort of take for granted you're going to be there for and you're not Is that when you start looking back in your life and going have I just messed up but again looking back right from the start you're a beautiful young girl for me looking from the outside is if you were groomed from older men you'd be related with money kind of power and people buy into it and that's sad because the amount of people who have grew up with who are in think the materialistic things is people buy into that life but every gangster, every drug dealer every bank robber have ever now grown up or dead or in a jail majority will turn into drugs as well because they can't handle the pain, the trauma that they've put themselves through that does affect them Of course it does and even today I think nothing to do with me but I think it's so sad the way that the youths are gone today and life is so cheap to them that they don't think twice about wanting to stab each other and it's for nothing and they're youngsters, kids and it's awful I mean friends of mine do a charity and that's for for Tony who was a charity call? for Tony Turner and that's to put down your knife yeah take back your life to put down your knife and I think kids don't realise prison is horrible don't think about it don't do it because you were done with some of the biggest monsters though I mean I personally do know a young boy that he got life recommended 25 years and he was he was 20 so for stabbing and another boy lost his life for nothing for a silly little argument yeah a lot of ego gets dented now a lot of people find over post codes which is irrelevant because you were surrounded by the biggest monsters probably the UK has ever seen with Rose West and Myra Hinley how was that as well being from the streets and obviously the crimes you've done you've still done a lot of shit but they were killing kids and killing a lot of people they're unbelievable people they are really our horror stories you're slapped Myra Hinley yeah I did I shot myself I think when I did it because they gave me a job in the library next door to where she was and she was used to do the washing and there was all these black and yellow stripes do not cross here you get put on revolt and one of the officers looked in and went oh Linda you can put your washing in before the factory comes out so I said okay and I sort of just walked straight in and she was pulling washing out the washing machine and she was singing and I just walked up to her and she looked back and I just went whack and she sort of went like this and went I could just get you sent back to Holloway for that and I went Holloway doesn't hold any fears for me do what you like and I thought oh no it took me all this time to get here and I was thinking they're going to come in in a minute and go Linda go and pack your stuff but they didn't in fact the next day they're coming and told me she sits and has her coffee in the library so that was another crazy thing How was it then being in for the 18 years that you have any partners in there or was it difficult to be away for so long No it was difficult I made a couple of friends but very very few to think for all those years A long time as well what do you think looking back at that being that time in prison is it difficult is it difficult to speak about Linda It was I mean I think the maddest question that anybody ever says to me was did it seem very long and it's like what do you mean it was 18 years of course it was long it's a lifetime and the amount of people that have said to me or did it seem a long time 18 years of long time How did you get through it did you do any reading did you do any psych I used to read the newspaper every day and I used to go to the gym and I got really into the gym and I trained as a hairdresser and I trained as a hairdresser in there so I used to keep keep my time Keep busy, keep your head down But you can't ever win the system and that is the truth That's what people need to learn from a very young age You can't beat the system You can't beat the system Nobody can beat the system Once you're in that behind that door and you've been sentenced you can be the biggest artist person going you're not going to beat that system How did Charlie Bronson end up getting a hold of you how did he end up writing to you Oh he just fell in love with me and said to me That seems to be every man that's ever in contact with you though You're the black rose That's a turn-on for people though The same as the bad men and gangsters people love that Well I think I got over 50 wedding proposals Many did you accept None of them Yeah They must be cranks Who would want to write to somebody in a prison and say will you marry me It's nuts though on it Did you ever get married You got married in prison though I ended up marrying Danny and then I got divorced him Danny's the one who gets done for the mother as well so when he was in prison you were in prison both of you got married so that looks suspicious then from the people looking from the outside I suppose it did but it was quite a few years down the line we'd been away and I in the end thought there's only one person who knows what this is like and that's him and he said to me there's only one person who knows how I feel and that show and we were always fighting to get back to coal whatever and they used to bring in for visits we used to have visits and we said about one day do you know what we might as well get married no one else will ever have us and said to the girls and they went oh yeah we can have a wedding so it was all yeah alright we get married and then when we just said like this is mad what are we doing this for that's it we went alright we get married to keep the girls happy so we got married and then we got divorced a couple of them later what was Brian saying to you the guy that ended up taking the prime as well and doing a 21 for you what was he saying did he ever in contact with you while you were doing your 18 oh he used to write to me yeah do you think you probably kept all these men as well as with you like Brian's, Danny's still in contact, Charlie's Reggie but all these men probably thought that they were yours and only yours and then when they probably found out that that's why they ended up fucking killing each other it was like a wild wild west over Llynda so when you eventually when did you realise you were getting your release date because the law changed when you were doing your 18 and the law changed to say you didn't have to admit your guilt to be released you were judged on your behaviour in prison your sort of plans for your release etc so without having to say which I didn't, I would never have said that I did it everything else they said well she's a model prisoner she's never done anything wrong she's got a fantastic family to go home to so all the criteria to be set free once they took that one thing away would you have died in prison Llynda? yeah I would have done stubborn, stubborn and I would have even though you could have get out just by saying putting your hands up and saying I did it I would never have said it so when you got your release date what was going through your mind well I met George didn't I and I got collected him up he got picked up that's what I was talking about this red roller you visualised when you were 11 years old coming out after doing an 18 stretch for murder get picked up in a Rolls Royce in that Mad Toe Life King Dickens that's what I'm saying that he's mad and Jos died four years later he was cancer there was no any poison no, bless him people will be thinking fuck me it just shows you that he died of cancer and it was him that said to me write your life is so amazing and write your book and by writing the first book which is a Black Widow which will leave the links in the description from doing that one and it was really well acclaimed and I realised I really enjoyed writing that then I created the locksmith how was it writing the Black Widow was that a bit of therapy for you to eventually put your story straight I was really pleased that I could do it because everybody had an opinion on me and everybody so I thought no I've sat back and let everybody say this, this, this now I'm going to write and put my side were you nervous about doing the book no, I wasn't because I thought whatever I've written in there nobody can challenge me on it because it's all true so and as I say because of that I've now created my locksmith and my Ruby and there's a little bit of me in Ruby I think so you're enjoying right because there's going to be more books coming out after this yes, this is the first one and there's a month of the part 2 what do you think looking back you see because you've lived it it might not seem as nuts but for people listening because you're the first kind of lady boss kind of people who you were a gangster you're the first, you're probably the one and only that I've ever came across that there is something about your energy where it can be quite intimidating so men would have probably felt fear from you really? yeah, which is probably a strange thing I think you would have had men you would have had them eating out your hand for some reason which is mad, you probably know what I'm talking about in the past yeah what about the love life now well I'm living a nice quiet life now who knows what the future holds you must be a strong man anyway is there anybody brave enough I think that is the golden question I definitely think that so we'll put that in your dating app but is there anybody brave enough that with the men who I think you've came across in your life I think there is men out there that think every man thinks they can tame a woman they can't people need to take years of your living proof of that so when you started going through your life and started making changes getting about a family life together how was it trying to change what age did you get out Linda? um I was 59 so how was it then coming out to society with everything kind of changing was it weird? was it? that very next day I was driving did people try and get you back involved? no two old people the people that I used to do even villains retire they get tired they do who's the maddest person you've ever came across? Ron Ron Cook haven't I ever heard of this man either? no was he friendly with any of the Richardson's craze was he he knew everybody was people scared of him? yeah everybody was scared of him everybody and it's funny because when it happened they set an incident room up in the school behind and my sister worked in that school and everybody was going oh my god who was it and she thought no it's my sister's house that she didn't want to say because she was in the school and when the police come round and went you're not going to believe it it's only Ron Cook who's dead and she said the caretaker sweeping went oh the East Enderby celebrating to now I heard that's mad on it people that feared of him they really were 5 feet 8 not a kiss what do you think now walking by a bank do you think man I could still take that on or do you think where do you think the cameras in that now and everything already technology oh you couldn't do you couldn't do what we used to do that's a bygone era but do you ever walk by and think I could odd occasions no I don't think that but sometimes I'll drive past somewhere and go and I might say to everybody oh god I robbed that they go you know it's sort of you think looking back in your life I know we have a laugh and a joke but obviously some serious stuff what do you think like looking back and thinking wow rollercoaster can't change it can you so you just got to make the best of it that's all you can do I've always been a glass half full which is you've got to be you've got to be man you've got to concentrate on the positives you're led down that life that's the cards you've been dealt you're still breathing though so it's all down to you how you want to play the rest of your hand that's all I mean so what about for anybody watching I've never says issues like the men I say for any of the youth for any girls as well because girls look up want to be bad as well and angry and do bad shit but for any advice for the youth yeah please don't there's nothing glamorous about being locked in the prison cell with that door shut behind you and you're stuck there you've got people bullying you or you being the bully and you're getting treated like rubbish a lot of the times there's nothing glamorous think about it especially as I say with Tony is this culture nowadays with this stabbing so it's terrible don't even think about it kids there's nothing good one minute and you're in prison and they say you're there for years what do you think of the generation now to 40 years ago do you think it was more even though it was still violent then but do you think there was more respect then it was violent then but there was respect and I know people go oh yeah alright but there was there was I don't know why there's not in just everyday life there's not the respect that they used to be I mean I remember when I was young and if you see somebody old get on a bus you'd stand up for them to sit down or somebody pregnant or holding a child or a man with older door open for you to walk through and all those sort of things it's very rare now that you actually do see these things and I think I don't know there's a lot of kids that have been brought up and they've had drug addict parents they've not had broken homes or they've had or stepmums that have been crapped to them and they hate the world and they think so what I can do this and I can do that it's not the right thing to do What Linda now, what advice would you give for Linda at 19 Linda at 19 don't go to that part You mean I'm going to go as well fuck me my water rock after that it has been in the last 50 years 40 years Felly yna rhyw ffordd. Tynnu wedi bod yôl â'r byd fod yn ei wneud. Felly byddwn ni'n rhannu hynny. Felly mae'r byd yn teimlo bod ysgol yn ei ffordd. Rwyf wedi meddwl. Prydym wedi bod gwneud 200 yn ei falch. Swyaf. Felly mae yw drafodaeth. Modd yn fan gweithio'r byd yr holl. Felly galla rwyf yn iechyd yn gwneud ahog, a roedd ddim yn bryd iddo, mae'n sgwr ydi'r ysgol, felly'n bod yn y gofyn. A'r byd yn cynnig fod yn ei bwg. Felly, yn ymddych yn ystod yn ystod, rydyn ni'n gweithio'n gweithio. Rydyn ni'n gweithio. Rydyn ni'n gweithio. Rydyn ni'n gweithio.