 Yellow. Hello? Yes, Clarence. Mr. President, how are you? Oh, I'm pretty good, still grinding away. I hope you're doing all right. Well, we're your kind of inspiration. The whole country is doing fine, and I'm right along with it. Well, we're doing the best we know how. Looks like you're telling me today we're going to try to move on closer about next Saturday as maybe Monday. Yes, well, I was hoping very much I could have. I know you're so busy that you're having some time seeing people, but I was hoping we'd get a chance to tell you the way we size up the situation on this poll tax amendment. And I think we can win on that, and I think we can win in a way that will keep everybody happy. And I hope so much we have a chance to say a word or two with you about that. Well, you sure will, Clarence. I'm not a lawyer, and I left it up to Nick. I told him in drafting the bill that I would like to lower it to 18 years, and I would like to repeal poll tax. And he said that he would see what he could do about it, and he came back and told me he thought that we would be less likely to get what we wanted if we followed those steps, because he didn't believe that you could do it and make it stand up by statute. And I'd had an old solicitor. He used to be a case under Secretary Alvin Words, who was my lawyer always, and he made me vote against repealing by statute about 15 times on that ground. And so when Nick came back and said that he didn't believe that that could be done, that's why the bill went up that way. I would like to see it repealed if it could be repealed. I was hopeful that he and y'all could get together somewhere and get something that would stand up and would satisfy his doubts and y'all's hopes. Good. That's a nice combination that we've been working along that line. I think that Nick has about concluded that under the present state of the law the Supreme Court could declare the poll taxes unconstitutional if it deprives people of the right to vote because of race. And I believe that the court's position would be strengthened if the Congress would make a finding that the poll taxes discriminatory and would say that it is banned as a result of the statute. I really don't think we'd lose on that basis. After all, nobody can know what Supreme Court will do until the case gets up there. I think Nick has modified his position somewhat and I imagine it wouldn't be too hard for him to come the rest of the way. There are a great many people up in Congress who feel that there's very good reason for getting rid of the poll tax by statute and some of them are, as you know, good lawyers. Well, I'm very anxious to get rid of it any way you can legally and constitutionally. I'm in a pretty budgeted box because for 15 years I've been voting for the constitutional amendments campaigning on radio and television. I bought $2,400 worth of time when Mr. Rayburn and I, eight to ten years ago were trying to get Texas to repeal it and we lost a campaign last time trying to get them repeal it and we lost. I went down to Jack Brooks' district campaign and went to Dallas all over it. But if he can ever get the point or any good lawyer that I have to trust that he says that we can legally do it, I would have another approach to it. Well, Paul LaFloyne, who's up at Harvard University... Yes, I know he's very distinguished. I didn't give a Felix Frank for the funeral oration of the day. Well, he has taken the position in a memorandum that she sent to Senator Ted Kennedy that this can be done by a statute. And as I said, in our conversations with Nick, he's been very friendly and I think his position has changed a little, particularly because it's the latest Supreme Court decision, the latest Supreme Court decision Well, Virginia Post, you know, and in it the court said that historically this tax was used in Virginia for the purpose of discriminating against Negroes. To me, that seems like a pretty good signal that the court would uphold a statute passed by Congress. Will you concentrate your efforts and reasoning on him? Because I'm not a lawyer and I don't want him to feel that I'm trying to override him and run out on him because I picked him primarily because I thought you all had confidence in him and I thought that he was the best to do it. I had some Texas fellows they wanted me to bring in and I finally concluded that he would be the best of the nation. That's what I did. Well, we were delighted, Mr. President, when you appointed them and we have a wonderful relationship. Our disagreements are intellectual, not emotional. I know that. I know that. I talked to a fellow a while ago that I was quite impressed with. I asked him if he knew you and he said he did and I asked him if he knew you favorably. And he said, yes, he thought that you were friendly. But I'd like to have your evaluation of him. His name's Jackson and he's from Kansas. Yes, Mr. President, I can give you a funny quote called an enthusiastic endorsement of him. He worked with us and when we were trying to get the Civil Rights Bill through he came up here at his own expense and worked with the members on the Republican side. He helped us get it through, get the bill through the rules committee. You know, we had to do a little maneuvering with other Republicans over there and he did a wonderful job on that. And he has just consistently tried to be for constructive things not only in his own state but around the country. He has a wonderful reputation out in Kansas and a very good military record. He was in the Judd-Atkins office of the Air Force. In fact, still is a reserve officer in that area. I think he would be very hardworking in fine addition. A lot of might put him on this equal opportunity commission. But this would be wonderful. I wanted Marjorie Lawson on there. I thought she was judicious enough and able enough and I wanted the woman and she didn't want to take it. Well, I was hopeful that you would make that kind of decision too with President because I have a tremendous amount of respect for her ability. I'm sorry to hear that. Why don't you give her a hand? Why don't y'all get me some good people? I want to try to get this fellow Abrams up in New York. Do you know him? Yes, I don't know him well but I know he is. He's exceptional but he couldn't do it on his wife's health. I tried to get Marjorie. She can't do it. None of them want to do it. I've got to get some good people. But would you care to have me call Marjorie? I just wish you would. I wish you'd just call her in and tell her you want to buy her lunch. And just saying how you can't emancipate people unless you emancipate. You can't do it over here sitting on some judge. You come and do this. There'll be something else coming along the year too. She'll want to be an ambassador, a judge or something else. We're going to be here a while and tell her that she'll shove her for something bigger and better but let's get this started off. Get it started off right. She's reasonable. She knows how to get along. She's my confidence and I think she likes me. She's worked on my Equal Employment Committee for four years. And she was, I felt very confident. I had four or five people that I could put on. I got to have a woman. I'd prefer to have a Negro woman. I would like to, I like Marjorie first. I'd like to take Patricia Harris. But I kind of thought I might get her some State Department because she's got such a hell of a legal background. She's got all the five-eighth capital in the country and all the order to call us and everything you got she would be, could use there. I could take Ms. Watson who was on the appointment for the New York husband to judge. She's not as aggressive as they are but she's got a master's degree and she was a social worker and she stands up and slugs and fights. So when you, when you have to she got me up time at two to three o'clock in the morning right now about things, right? They wanted two others. I could take Edith Sampson out in Chicago. Marjorie is really my pick. I had that wonderful pick but I can't get her done. Well, I certainly don't think of anybody in the country more persuasive than you but I'd be happy to make another try at it. Take her to lunch tomorrow, go say her and tell her that I was talking to you on some other matters and I told you I was disappointed in her. I thought she'd take this to get started off and then go to something else and she's gonna have to live with it a lifetime. Just the first year is gonna be the real test and we got to have people that can be firm and fair and diplomatic enough not to just have the roof falling and she's got all those qualities. Well, I agree with you and I've been hoping to tell you about a wonderful experience I had in Texas which shows how people can change. I was down in Longview about two or three weeks ago at a Freedom Fund Center of the NAACP and a few years ago I had tried to go to that community and all of our officers were under arrest and there was an injunction issued by a judge that said that if anybody came to town the whole meeting he'd be arrested so we couldn't hold a meeting and I was talking about it and my speech and saying how wonderful it was at times of change. There was a judge sitting next to me and somebody told me afterwards that this was the same judge who had tried to put it to jail before. There's a law that... One notice done again, wasn't it? I forget what his name is. He's a young fellow, very pleasant. The notice done again he tried to put me in jail in 1948 when I beat him but he's a state district judge. Yes, I think he is. It doesn't seem to be about one of the federal judges. No, no, no, he was... Yes, that's all just done again. But that's the problem. You think about that and call me back and I'll go to Johnson and you all talk to Nick and I'll talk to him tomorrow and see what we can do there. I don't want to go over his head. I don't want to poll tax. I told him I didn't. I said I'd been against it all my life. I don't want to repeat it. Well, I think that we could work out a little formula that would be a graceful way of doing it and not hurt anybody's feelings. It's not going to hurt mine. No, I didn't mean you have to make another who might have had different conclusions. I know that. I just told him to ruin the bill. That's all. No, we don't either. The Lord knows that because we're so happy the way you think. I was up there that night. I don't know whether you heard all that loud applause when I was up there clapping. Well, I'm sure it did. Sure it did. It was a better evening for us than that one. It was really great. The timing was right, too. I thought so, too. The thing that abused me was that some of these people were supposed to be segregated from Senator Allen and others. I don't know if they were the first ones to go on the back and be graduated here. I think they've been it. Well, I bless you. Let me hear from you. All right, Mr. President, thank you.