 And we are back with the breakfast and plus TV Africa. Thank you so much for staying with us and also joining. I'm glad to announce that we've been joined via Zoom this morning for Off the Press. Ezekiel, yeah I took. Ezekiel, thank you so much for joining us. Good morning. Thanks so much for having me. All right, Dan, another day to go through the papers this morning. The headlines are quite interesting. I'd like to start off with the leadership. It talks about the 2023 presidential election. Obede, Labour Party have no case. Aynac tells Tribunal, that's a lot, to grapple with. Says relief sought by petitioners not grantable. President-elect, duly elected. Okay, that's like a rhyme. Chernobyl APC wants petitions dismissed. These are riders you find underneath the caption this morning. The board Heather, ex-annumber of governor dies at 78. And then again you find 22 million dollars call about channel dredging. Intel's contracts cost me my job. It feels like a deja vu. We've probably seen this before. And acting PDP national, national chairman irrelevant. That's what we K is quoted to say on the particular one. I mean, I think we K has been blowing very hot. But let's leave this paper this morning and quickly turn our attention to all the papers that we have has been made available by our paper vendor. So we turn attention to the punch. The punch says, Chernobyl won presidential poll. Aynac tells Tribunal, with your full chest. That's the street language. President-elect clinched one quarter of valid votes cast in 29 state. That's according to the umpire. Losing FCT. I ref hiccups cannot invalidate APC victory. That's what Aynac is saying. I feel like this is a lot. And then again, you find House leadership pro G5 reps plot to scuttle PDP's plan. Again, then you find National Assembly proposes jail time for Ponzi scheme promoters. I'm converse Eric air founder from Airlines premise. 256 stranded Nigerians rescue from Libia and Chad. Again, you ask, Libia is always, what was it? You know, people were trying to just escape the hardship and difficulty. Nigeria wants to go to Libya. Exactly what's going on in Libya, really? And then, well, uh, Rhodes, Vivo, Jando, extra, you know, to sack, uh, so it's like a two-way thing. Then you have, uh, Jando, then you want the other hand, you have Vivo, uh, asking, sack this and sack that. So ask you to sack me. You also have to sack me. So it's, it's a two-way thing. A police to begin a trial of three rivers, uh, canoe corpse. And then, uh, just before move away from that, you have, um, you have mob beats or AU student to debt over Stolen for, uh, the issue of jungle justice continue to remain, uh, in our society. And we don't seem to forget about what had happened, you know, in river state, the aloo for situation. Article did not meet condition to win Inaq tells tribunal. That's according to the nation newspaper this morning, the board caption commission replies PDP candidates and petition. He says, FCT has no special status. Obese petition should be dismissed. It feels like there's no case. Hey, let everyone just, you know, take a breather. Again, uh, we K PDP cannot hijack national assembly leadership. Niger may lose $23 billion to crude oil theft in 2023. Uh, speakers actually won. And just as we move away from this particular paper, I'm a chief firm in fired me from NPA over contract dispute. APC holds parameters anymore. Biosy, Kogi this weekend, 104 stranded in Nigeria as Nigerians, uh, back from Libya. Then, uh, that's the much we can take at this point in time. I mean, there are a lot of interesting headlines, but for the want of time, we just, uh, quickly have to move away from that. But we take the daily trust. He says leaked audio federal government, ACF orders blast to be. And then again, Claire, your several Haneze challenges, the labor party candidate, that's Peter Obey. It's applied to divert attention from obese petition. A Fennie Ferrer leader is quoted to say, our elders won label candidates against unguarded authorances. Uh, it's just more interesting headlines. Reps finger melami, uh, I'm at orders in $2.4 billion or revenue scam. I'm of order CBN to continue increasing interest rates. Okay. 10 national assembly speaker. Why, why is this the best choice? Sounds like an editorial and a moral of an editorial there, but we just ignore that and just move on. Ezekiel, once again, thank you for being with us this morning. So much for having me. It's always a pleasure. Well, quickly, less delving to the papers, right? So, uh, yeah, um, 2023 presidential elections. I mean, we were still grappling with the aftermath of it. The conversation has not ended. You have, uh, persons who were aggrieved with the outcome of that elections. And then Ionic is here saying that, uh, the presidential candidate of the Labour Party does not have a case. That's what they're telling the tribunal. I definitely get to the words where, I mean, how Ionic describes, you know, this particular case. But just before we get to that part, what are your thoughts really on this? The very first thing is that, um, Nigerians need to wake up to the reality of, um, what leadership recruitment is all about. And that if Ionic is vested with the responsibility of recruiting a leader for Nigeria, they need to know that it is about the most important assignment that could be vested on anybody. As a matter of fact, the presidency that is seen as the most, um, important office is brought about through Ionic. Ionic, but whoever is going to be the next president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So to that extent, they really need to understand and appreciate the weight of the responsibility that is vested on them. A lot of times I feel very, very sad when I see what goes on. You've conducted elections, you know that you fell short of all your standards. I've been one of the best, um, supports of Ionic over the, over the years. I've, I've heard Ionic in such a way that people sometimes wonder if I was, um, a spokesperson for them. I have a personal relationship with the chairman of Ionic, the national chairman. But on this score, on this account, all the things he was doing, the beavers, the, the soundbite, everything was right, was, was just good. Look, nothing is going to stop us from transmitting results from the polling unit because we sat down. I was the former national chairman and we looked at electoral processes. We interrogated where the problems really were. And we say it was, how can we get the votes to count at the polling unit? Because that evil, called Condition Center, had become a monster that we needed to get rid of. And we all agreed, unanimous, that we need to have a device that can transmit the results from the polling unit to a central server. We all agreed. You know, every party chairman, every party, they say, look, let's have a free unfair game. And Ionic was, was, was in on it. He agreed from the beginning. Now let's fast forward to the election, election day, the presidential election, which was the beginning of the end of the anti-climax. You have two elections at the same time, the National Assembly. We have the Senate and the House of Reps. And then the presidency. All are voted at the same time. All are imputed on the same time, same device. But on different channels so that they can go into the different segments. This channel goes through on the same device. This channel goes through on the same device. The House of Reps goes through. The House of, the Senate goes through. The presidency fails to go through on the same device, on the same network. At the same time, something is wrong. That's the beginning. I now come to the status. There are certain things that are not for Ionic to talk. What is the status of the FCT and what should be? If, if, let me give you a very simple illustration in YAC. They say, for you to get a university entry, you must get six papers and English. Even if you get ten papers without English, you're not going to get admission. Because you must get six papers and English. You must get English as a precondition. Six papers and English. If you like, get ten papers, twelve papers without English, you've not made the condition. Now, let Ionic allow the court to interpret that. Number two, Section 35 is so unambiguous, I can quote it anytime, any day because I'm involved. Anyone that knowingly allows himself to be nominated by two parties or in two constituencies, his nomination shall be void. It's so clear, so unambiguous, and somebody says this person has nomination in two constituencies and you say it doesn't matter. It's not Ionic's call. Let the court interpret that. Section 35 of the Electoral Act, very simple, very straightforward. So for them to come and say Labour Party, they have no case and dismiss everything with the way of the hand is for them to minimize the import of what's going on in the system right now. It's not about Labour Party, it's not about Peter Albi. It's about interrogating the process and some of us are going to sit on it until Nigerians know what the electoral process is, what should be, so that going forward we can have something that we all know what we are I mean at the end of the day because you probably want to say that the cases, this conversation is subjudice, especially when we're just waiting to see, just like you're saying, let the court actually have the interpretation, but one cannot continue to wonder what this would do at the end of the day. I mean, what exactly would happen if this would have an impact, especially when you have Ionic saying, praying to the court to dismiss or strike out the petition for being grossly incompetent, abusive, vague, generic, non-specific, I mean, I feel like it's also a reputation, because more like using different synonyms just to describe you're saying the same thing, but you're just using different words to describe what you're trying to say. So one is just wondering if all of this, you know, statement or prayers by the umpire would have no impact on the tribunal and of course its outcome. You see, the place of the tribunal is to interrogate the process and establish compliance, fairness, justice and equity, and of course the ultimate determination. Somebody says, look, what I am in the tribunal, for instance, and I make a very simple request. When we were counting the votes we recorded, and I had 75 votes here, on the IWF quarter, I have zero. So what happened to my vote? I just want to know. So two things, number one, let us go back to the vote which you had collected and kept, and then look at it again to establish if I'm just having a malaria dream or I know what I'm talking about. And you turn around and say that what I'm asking for is vague, because it is untenable. You use all manner of words. You look for dictionary and look for synonyms and just copy all of them. Things don't work that way. Labour Party says, I want to inspect the vote, bring the materials for me to inspect. And they say that is vague. What's vague about that? Like I said, you know, I want to believe that the last hope of this nation right now is the judiciary. And I want the Chief Justice of the Federation to just call all the panel members of all the different tribunals and tell them, please, Nigerians have never been this interested. And not just Nigerians. The youths, they are watching you. Don't do what is unethical. Let it be transparent. Whether wins, wins. Just make sure you are free and fair and firm and stand on the side of justice. Be seen to be free and fair and firm and standing on the side of justice because you don't want the young people of Nigeria to lose faith in the judicial system. It's going to be the bigger problem for us to handle. All right, Ezekiel, let's turn our attention to the punch away from the leadership now. That's on the punch. It talks about strong indicators that a crisis in the people's Democratic Party will or may spill over to the 10th National Assembly. And you understand the G5 governors and the activities and how it impacted on the elections, you know, the national and, of course, the different components. And then there probably might just also still be a continuation of all of this. What exactly would you say about what's going on, especially that you are a party man, and you understand how this, you know, party politics plays? Okay. You know, when you go to the National Assembly, the law is simple. Let the Speaker, let the President of the Senate come from the majority party. Now it's very clear which the majority party is. It's very clear, very, very unambiguous. So PDP really doesn't have a problem. The people that have a problem is APC because the law says that the members of the Assembly or the Senate will choose their leader by simple majority. What that means is that PDP and the Labor Party, NNPP, AGC can say the leadership of APC wants Mr. Say Lawan as the next Senate President. But we, the people, want Mr. Say Acpabio as the Senate President. Now if the others, that's PDP, APC, sorry, PDP, AGC, NNPP, YPP, you know, Labor, if they can come together and have the numbers, they can actually choose Acpabio instead of Lawan. And that is what should give APC the headache. What I will advise APC to do now is not to grandstand, but to go into a strategic understanding with, say, PDP that has a majority party. But a party like NNPP and Labor, they are very dangerous. You've got to, you know, negotiate with them and discuss with them. So it is now for APC to apply what I call emotional intelligence to know the mindset of these other people and appeal to their sentiment. And they may need to make certain concessions, like they did during the time of Salah Ki, where they had to bring a person like Eqel Ahmadu from PDP, Opposition Party, Deputy Senate President, because all those things are just numbers. And right now we have the most, what's the word, the most diverse Senate in the history of the Senate of this country. And for me, I think that things are starting to happen in Nigeria that are going to be irreversible. All the conventionals, all the norms are starting to give way to a kind of different thinking. And the earlier you can adjust to the present realities, the more, the better it will be for you. But if you think, oh, this how we always do it, this how it will always be, you wake up to a very sad reality that is all changed. But, I mean, if you talk about being divers and nationalists, is that not a reflection of what the entire system is, the whole of the country? We're just a reflection of what it's going on in different component units. People are yet to wake up. Let me tell you something. The day you sit down and actually see how an unstructured party gets 6 million votes. And then the conventional party in power gets 8 million, the difference being just for 2 million. Forget all the other things that are being contested as well. Is it really the fact and the figures? Because let me not enter there for now. When you look at Labour Party that was 6 people tweeting and retweeting in a room, taking the FCT, taking the legal state, and dragging the Federal Republic of Nigeria with a PC government in power, they should wake up to the reality that things don't change you, things don't change. And who are the prime drivers of this change? The young people. So I think that when the old people need to wake up and not take this young people granted again, and then find a way of working with them and ultimately transiting because it's their turn, it's their time. When my auger Jagaban keeps talking Emilokon, what do you really want the youth to say? Whose turn is it really? Yours or theirs? Government is for everybody, but we've got to know that right now they are the principal officers who are just supporting us. And earlier we do it such that we give them their space and guide them properly and let them know that they are being introduced gradually into the system so that they can mature into what it is. Politics is not about hothead, it's about very settled mature approach to things which is the governance. So we need to bring them in in a way they can come in, gradually learning, understanding. A lot of them are really ready for this, but some of them are not. It's hotheads, you understand me. So we need to bring them in in a way that we are fair to them. When that is done, there's going to be a good system transition without system shock. But when we do not appreciate the place of the youth, and they are right to be where we are today, then one day they will rise up and they will take it. How they will do it, I don't know. But I pray that we just let it be a peaceful transition. But away from all of that, let's delve into the economy and that's on the daily trust newspaper as we close this review down. It talks about the International Monetary Fund, that's the IMF urging the Central Bank of Nigeria to continue to tighten the monetary policy rate just in ruin of inflation. So continue to increase the interest rate. Do you think that that's actually good for our economy? You see, I'm not an economist, but I've been a private setup player all my life, I've never set it in the appointment. So there are things that you really need to look at. There are two things. First is that government is not a business, it's not an enterprise. Government has a specific objective. It's just like when you have a body like Red Cross, they have a specific objective to help. If you go to government, you look at chapter 2, section 14, subsection 2b, it gives you what is the matching order of the government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. It says the security and welfare of the people shall be the primary purpose of government. To that extent, government sits down to take decisions that will make sure that the generality of the people are not disenfranchised or they are not put at harm's way or they are not in any way unprotected. Within that context, you now come into our system, you can either drive a capitalist system where you make sure the rich always have more than enough so that whatever falls down can benefit the poor. We are now receiving from that capitalism. Or you go to extreme socialist tendency where you think of the poor without being able to build a system. But what is happening in the world today is being able to do what is called cut and fill. What I've brought up as social governance, which is a bottom to top approach to governance and development with the primary objective of bringing the people out of poverty. When you do that, you realize that when the interest rate is too high, they cannot borrow. If they cannot borrow, there will be no production because production works a lot on being able to get facilities from the bank. By the time that your returns on investment does not match the amount of money that's or the interest that you are paying, then you discover that you're working for the bank. And sooner or later you're going to give up and say it's not worth it. But when you can get interest factors at a lower rate, it becomes easier for the producer to go and borrow and do business and economy runs on the production platform, which is what Mr. Peter Albee has been saying. Let us move from consumption to production. You can't go into production when you do not have the funds. You can't have the funds when the interest rate is too high. So we need to now put on the thinking cap and say, how can we segment the society such that you do not disenfranchise the lower people? IMF should know that Nigeria is not America, America and Europe and all those people, they have systems and structures already in place for you to borrow money in America. It's not the same terms and template that you borrow in Nigeria because somehow a boring culture where they will borrow and return, we really don't have a work culture. We really don't have a boring culture for you to borrow is easy, but for you to return the money is more difficult. So we need to come to a point where you balance between the two. You need extremely creative minds to be in government and in governance to be able to know IMF. Yes, you say this way, but for now we can't go that way. Let's rather go this way. There are many roads that lead to the markets, not just one road. That road has to be the one that your people can assess easily. Well, definitely. That's a great analogy right there from you. Thank you so much. This is a point where we have to take a break because we will continue with all the lineup of our conversation this morning on the show. Isakone, I took many thanks for joining us. Always a pleasure. Thanks and my God bless you. All right, then. Have a great day. That's the size of it this morning on Off the Press. We take a breather when we return. We delve straight to our first conversation. Now the elections have come and they have gone, but of course the partitions continues. Stay with us.