 Hello, welcome to the Donahue group. We're delighted you could join us for a half an hour of fast-paced conversation and insightful political insights I'm not going to mention that this is an award-winning show because we've covered that ground I think just a little bit by nauseam But please remember that this is an award-winning show after all joining me Ken Risto social studies teacher with the Sheboygan area school district Tom Panesky math teacher for the University of Wisconsin Sheboygan Cal Potter Excuse me Good boy your head We're having such a good time here even the cameraman laugh along with us former state senator former assistant Superintendent of public education for libraries. I'm Mary Lynn Donahue a simple city lawyer with O'Neill Cannon Holman de Young We're talking about state issues mostly although I will note just for the record and with some sadness in my heart But I doubt in anyone else's that this is probably the day that Hilary Clinton's Campaign for Presidency comes to an end. I think she's been a class act through all of this. I And I'm sorry to see her go enough said and if she doesn't do we retake this program? Well my understanding from all the blogs is that she will concede that she doesn't have The delegates that are necessary to win the race all those Obama Yeah, at this matter officially not officially doesn't have so Anything can happen and I know we're a little off point here But should we take any bets as to who Obama's VP will be? I'm saying John Edwards Sam none Sam none Sam none why? Georgia older white Respected moderate an expert on defense an expert on military He's not even public office now is he that is correct He has been out of public service for for some time now But he's been on a variety of commissions and it's perceived as someone also understands all the Senate works and how Congress works and President-elect Obama if that should happen is going to need all the help he can get in that matter He sure will out there Southwest maybe so yeah Richardson's another good choice I don't know about Edwards because His wife was on public radio the other day and her cancer has spread to her bones. Oh She was I didn't explain her situation and so I don't know if that's going to be a I don't think the situation Yeah, I mean it is a brutal political world Yes, I mean it's always been brutal, but it seems especially so and he's young enough that he is days ahead in Politics I think sure sure Tom any ideas you won't even talk about Democrats from Virginia. Was it a Warner Warner? Well, there's Warner and then there's also web, but web says he doesn't want Okay, there's the Vietnam War veteran who'd be a great choice and Virginia's in play with him, but He said he's not interested in the job He said is he could best serve the country and and Obama if he were president by staying in the Senate But it'll be interesting how about bird Pick up West Virginia or emeritus. Oh my I just wish they that Clinton and Obama had not sort of Poisoned the water between them because that would be a dynamite ticket to have both of them still may happen I think it might happen. I would open wood. I would be just hell for I mean the exit polls that just saw from Virginia and some of the other races Were 30 up to 30% of Clinton supporters were not going to vote for my Obama Just you know sure a certain percentage will not uphold what they said in the heat of the Disappointment or or elation of the campaign But still there's just shows that there are two camps here and I think women particularly I know my wife is very Supportive of Hillary and has always been and really would like to see her continue and be involved And I think there are a lot of women who who really see Allegiance with with the first woman candidate that has gotten this far And I think they're looking for her to be around well, it's hard because I don't think there any None at least to come to mind Although you may have some ideas any viable women who are as as strong as well known As gutsy as as Clinton and so I don't know when this ever happens and not to be president just because You know a woman should do this, but I really do think that the United States is ready for a Woman president and I think women bring some strengths to the political arena that that men do not and it's so close I mean if you were behind by four or five hundred votes in the delegates But when you're behind by maybe 175 or whatever that's nothing when considering you're doing with 4,000 some delegates That's actually a couple of caucuses. Sure because there's been a lot of talk on the I know we get back to state eventually But there's been a lot of talk on the in the blogosphere about the analysis that have been done about How disproportionate the power of the caucuses are in this democratic side? I can't speak to the Republican side and unrealistic to some Yeah, yeah, so the criticism back to my political years I was county chair of democratic party in the early 70s That's when George McCovern ran and George worked the young people and the caucuses and the certain types of things And that's why we got the reforms we did is because it really didn't reflect Accurately the popular vote. He was blown out of the water Come to general election now a couple hundred thousand votes in the state will get you as many delegates as a couple of million votes in a direct primary election It's an interesting process. And of course the Democrats has always God bless their hearts managed to be messy and dysfunctional But they do it with such vigor and such a lawn as opposed to the Republicans who in their tanking just You're looking for the word panache. Thank you Republicans just seem sort of depressed about dysfunction. Whereas the Democrats revel in it Nobody does it better than the Democrats, but that's true in any event I'm I'm thinking it's going to be Hillary as as VP and and I would like to see that although I see I think she's a fine senator, but I don't know We'll we'll be able to predict along with the name of the lobster the name of the vice presidential candidate Call into this TV station, right guys, you know up in the book there You would like some phone call. He's gonna be in the cabinet which Why would you leave the Senate to go to a cabinet spot? I mean, that's so we well And my you won't but maybe yeah, why does she want to go back to the Senate? She got meat Let's go a little higher Well, I think being a good senator is a position of huge power huge and I senator Kennedy's pointing out Showing us off. Yes, especially from New York Exactly, exactly and the reality is if McCain's victorious You know, she's not an older one I know an old woman she's got you know four years if she can make the case I told you you know in a way that he probably is gonna be more delicate than the way I'm gonna put it is I told you so he was not elected un-electable. So let's don't resurrect this campaign again He's not up for election right Obama for reelection of the Senate. Yeah, no So he could lose and go back to the Senate. Yes, as as would Hillary And McCain's walley Yeah, we haven't had a senator as a president from the Senate since Kennedy Who's the biography I just finished now? There was an interesting But we are going to move along and we're gonna just rain ourselves back in from the excitement of the National Name name the lobster name the VP, you know I mean this show could really take a good lobster dinner Gentlemen pay attention costume next gentleman pay attention Please if I could have if I could have your attention Good things happening in this state as well as bad. The Great Lakes Compact was finally signed Hurrah Hurrah the vote in both houses as it turned out was pretty overwhelming I don't know what happened to change that but the assembly came through I think with a large majority if I'm not mistaken and Doyle signed it now. We just have to have Three other states and the US Congress Sign I think it may be an uphill battle since in the Senate There are senators from states that want our water. So it'll be interesting to see what happens Any comments on that? Well, I think Congress will go along with it for a simple reason that they've set up the mechanism for which this was going to Play out, you know that the states had a vote on it, and I think it'd be very Sad day and if the Senate reversed itself and said now the process we established for ratify this compact is now reversed We don't agree with it. I think you'd have all kinds of heck breaking loose I would think you'd get 60 senators to stop a filibuster I mean because the senator can't put a hold on they can put holds on appointments, but they can't put holds on on Pieces of legislation where you need cloture, but I don't think this is a filibuster issue Not yet at least The Southwest is drying up and blowing away or something. Maybe you'd see it It is it is It's really it's really pretty remarkable. I think there will be alternatives I mean if you look at the Middle East a lot of its desalinization and so on their Technologies today that I think there will have to be looked at for the Southwest Great even California. Sure. Absolutely We're gonna just talk a little bit about our Judge issues or justice issues on the good side Retired the Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor was in Milwaukee to speak to the Milwaukee Bar Association and business leaders. That's my understanding. They were up to 700 people and I could have gone if I'd cleared my schedule, but I couldn't pull that to couldn't quite pull that off She's distraught about the state of judicial elections and Who can blame her and It really does seem that the She referred in her speech to a group. I believe in Ohio Something of a vigilante group called jail for judges that is really looking to you know Put judges in jail that you know, whatever but it seems like we've lost the The respect for this branch of government that really should be above The the give-and-take of the legislature and the and of the executive branch Well the headlines usually are some seriously abusive case or some heinous crime and the person the judge says Will give you one year or thirty-day or you know six months or something and put you on probation and training or something in people That makes the news and people just get Where is this judge coming from? And my response to that has always been I assume because you have such strong opinions You were in the courtroom and you understand everything that went on and all the issues that were taken into consideration There have been several judges locally that I have disagreed with you know in terms of sentencing of sexual assault victims for perpetrators And I have been personally critical Not that I would say anything Specific and out loud because lawyers really should not do that I mean it's in our code of ethics that we don't criticize judges again trying to maintain the respect for the system But then I realized you know, I wasn't in the courtroom. I don't know all the facts I don't know what happened I don't know what the judge took into account when he or she was making a decision. So well in Schwoing County he And so so it is interesting, but I think you're right and and I think these things have notoriety now that they did not used to have and I mean when you have a guy who's high on prescription drugs who kills a teacher and her baby and Pardon or let go our Probation and then commits another crime and then is on and then commits a third crime and you think Hello, so they get concerned about the judges Well, and and I mean they work within the laws that they have and You know the drunk driving thing, of course I think it's much more of a policy discussion than it is what specific judges do but But I do think that trying to restore some some level of dignity to to the Third branches that were and to accord it the fact that it's not supposed to be a part of the political Mishmash, I think that's what O'Connor was saying and I and I think we're pretty far away from it and we know here with with Gabelman and and Butler and Butler that I mean that was not a dignified campaign by any means It's unraveled on several fronts. It's the type of campaigns that are raged a waged It's looking at the financing of these where the money's coming from and then of course we have the seated Supreme Court judge there's just been what censored for her conflict of interest Situation so I think the thing that Tom mentioned that some of the decisions that the news media play up Plus these other aspects have really put a cloud of the judiciary and the more it does that the more the news media Feels that this is there is no respect that you have to uphold. Let's go after this in this branch of government So it sort of feeds on itself and it just goes lower and lower and how do you resurrect again? This institution that we sort of tried to hell hold with some dignity in the past. Hi, it's tough I really you know, there's there's there seems to be you know the eight degrees of separation between the press and the people they're reporting on seems to have disappeared and Or at least gotten mediated in a way. That's not very positive. So but Well Ziggler was rep read Justice Ziggler was reprimanded by the Court but not suspended for any period of time or or anything like that the Sheboygan press felt that was not sufficient any thoughts Well when the court says that it was a considerably what was the phrase from the court decision serious and significant When something is serious and significant I would expect a little bit more of an action simply a verbal reprimand And that that's what was disturbing when when they talk about that and when you know Justice Ziggler herself admits that well what I did was sort of informally did a little gut check To sort of figure out is this what I'm supposed to do when the code of ethics for lawyers is much more rigid than that and expects Much more from the lawyers. That's that's disturbing too. So I would have I would have expected The justice to receive a little bit more of a sanction or at least a suspension For some time just to set an example for future justices What's expected of them? I mean it's they have to hold themselves to at least the same standard as the lawyers that they referee every day But they're only Seven of those folks and they sit around and get to know each other quite well So I would suspect that some of it is the good old boy type situation that develops with friendships and it's tough It's tough when you got to work with that person you have and you're going to right, you know, I think you Put on paper. This was a bad situation But then when it comes to dealing out the punishment, what are you gonna do see and what I don't know is is What the court has done with similar cases, you know and what their response was as well Isn't that enough of a black mark? Just being censured Well, I think for a judge, you know scream for that. It's kind of a black mark He wouldn't I wouldn't want that on my record. Well, it's certainly a cloud that she's been living under and and that is very tough but I did really column that indicated that Judges tend to be less severe on themselves than they are on the lawyers who may commit similar kinds of violations and Although there have been some justices that Judges and justices who have been suspended for periods of time There was kind of a there was a judge in Milwaukee County who was really just on the other side of something and They actually suspended him for a full year You know, he just really had reached that level of dysfunction that they really couldn't continue on and and So, you know, those things do happen, but I think it is very hard, you know Among among the four of us. Why would I censure you, Tom? Just for your misguided political. No, just kidding Oh, you could find all our reasons for everything If we suspended you from this program, we wouldn't have anybody here Moving on today, not good news the GM plant in Jamesville will be closing down over a period of I think two years as I understand it and I think that sets Jamesville back stunningly, that's 2,100 jobs if I'm if I'm not mistaken and Now we have had gas crises before we've had gas prices go up We've had people shrink their cars and then when gas prices go back down The big cars come back. I mean that certainly happened in Jamesville I mean SUVs and and pickup trucks said, you know, big pickup trucks for a while We're certainly not economical to operate I Don't know what'll happen. Are these gas prices? Permanent, I mean will we go back down to the halcyon days of 259 a gallon or I Don't know Probably not Probably not. There's some supply side issues in the gas side, but Nigeria civil wars causing some difficulties But I mean the reality is is you've got a big chunk of the planet now with India and China I mean that's what one-third of humanity in those two countries One-third of humanity and and they're industrializing and they want to live like Americans and that means they want cars and automobiles as well and When you've got that many people starting to come online asking for those kind of same energy resources It's just going to be difficult to see yourself down to 250 or 280 or whatever it might be in those days What about Jamesville the story one of the lines was 2010 at The latest but they could close earlier if sales Don't pick up for their line. They make the the big SUVs with the truck frames, etc. Etc. So if they don't pick up they might close 2000 well sometime earlier than 2010 And that's that's possible because you know again looking at a crystal ball is looking in a crystal ball And you don't really know what's going to happen But nobody's talking right now at least about this economy in 2009 growing much more than it's growing now And if incomes aren't rising and if energy even if gasoline prices sort of stabilize around $80 a barrel or 85 is probably what some people might think is going to happen You might see 375 or 360 for gasoline, but that's I Think people are really starting as we got the four dollars really starting to do some you know gut checks of their own You know betends just pretend the justice and her people no matter what their affluence Are starting to think green and then saying do I need a vehicle that gets you know 15 miles of a gallon? Maybe it's not such a good idea even though I can afford it Maybe it's not something I want to I want to have well think of the think of the boating industry too for this summer Oh, yeah, you know, I suspect boating price The boating industry will be down or to be depressed this this this time around well our friend Dirk Solomon has a Prius and enjoys it immensely so hopefully at some point those cars will become more affordable and Who knows how that will all play out, but I see you know these these big SUVs or suburbans or whatever they're called I mean if you got a big family or you're carting teams around they serve a good purpose Yeah, they really do well, you'll have to be willing to pay for that. Yeah, you gotta be willing to pay for it. Yeah there was a long article in the Eternal sentinel that we talked about a little bit before we started about the Democrats potentially taking the assembly in November and What that might mean for For the state We have moved out of it a bad tax bracket I did not see that now rather than Sixth which we were at for a number of years. Okay, and That's due to a number of factors one. The state has been very frugal As well as putting caps on local units of government But also all the states have found themselves With populations particularly as people have moved to the south and southwest Demanding more services and so other states have now found themselves Expending more money on services just like Wisconsin did for many years And so the gap between the states as far as what they spend and raise is less And if you look at those rankings, I always point this out to people before you get to hept up on the per capita Difference between number 11 and number five for example is maybe 75 bucks or something It isn't a heck of a lot And so when you look at what you do get in this state for example Even at 11th with the university and tech colleges and primary and second education in parks and all the other things that we have You know, is it worth 75 bucks a year per person? I always say it is but these rankings are Somewhat the states are bunching more together and that's probably one of the explanations for it But it's good news for people who like these rankings and we are not in the top 10 any longer Yeah, the Pew Charitable Trust did their Rankings of states on a variety of criteria in terms of money and infrastructure and education and Wisconsin got a real solid sad B-minus You know not certainly not as bad as other states, but in terms of not being able to keep its young people Because of really significant cutbacks in the state workforce retiring a lot of people who have not only age but who have a lot of experience and and talent to lend to younger people and that's not around and the Pew study at least found that that was one of the main challenges for Wisconsin was maintaining a good viable workforce and And how that happens and so that'll be interesting to see how that plays out My sense is that Obama will be a good co-tail for the Democrats I mean they made certainly wonderful gains in 2006 and my sense is that that they'll that they'll do that again in 2008 and It'll be a all Democrats all the time Tom. I don't know how you're gonna Handle that These things swing these things Bless the system when they when they stubbed their toll then Republicans will come back. I think yeah, I think Presidentially, Wisconsin is going to be very very very competitive. It's always been the last couple of elections already And I think McCain will be a stronger candidate then while some people give him credit at this point in the game I mean because except for you know people like us. Nobody's paid attention anyway till Labor Day. Yeah, that's just the reality of the situation It's gonna take a long time for those two candidates to introduce themselves And they'll be you know all sorts of silliness between then and now too It'll be interesting to see and I think I could I could see Republicans getting energized and turning out the boat in Wisconsin as well as the Democrats clearly the campuses I think are I talked to some of my former students coming back where 18 19 20 and They are really very very much more energized than they were when they were at South for example, and I see the campuses Really getting involved and getting interested in ways. I've ever seen before And it's gonna probably swing more toward Obama than then of course McCain at this point But so the campuses will play a big part. I think this in this election, Wisconsin. You know, it's not just the Cotails of Obama. It's the just the numbers of competitiveness If you look go back the last election when the state Senate went Democrat the assembly, I believe 13 races were Determined by 1,000 votes or less so that's less than a hundred votes in 13 races on an average So you can see once you get a higher voter turnout Then you had two years ago and you do have a co-tail effect You could easily see how things could switch around in the assembly. Oh, yeah And I'm just gonna be interested in that Kagan guard race Because I mean that was very close as I remember yes, it was and I'm gonna have to start more television stations up there to have All the media money that they've kind of be spending Political ads 24 hours a day it's going to be Wisconsin's going to get a significant amount of presidential money Then yeah, you're right guard and garden Kagan is one of those very very competitive house races For the Republicans to gain back They don't have too many and there's always that you know, we had a fundraiser for senator Feingold And which was a great event and I you know, I just turned him at one point I said there's the sweetness of winning that election night and there's probably Hardly a better feeling and then it just all goes downhill from there And because you become the incumbent and all these things are held against you And it's really it's really a very difficult thing to to to try to work out So who knows I mean, I think Kagan's done some good stuff But you know, there's always vulnerabilities and they'll be just interesting to see how the assembly How the assembly plays out? Well, thanks for joining us. We appreciate it and I hope to see you again