 Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique house. It's your boy, you CEO, and I'm here with the lovely, amazing official, Mr. Mako. What's going on? Not nothing, I'm a dad. Well, I'll go on. Man, hold up, man. Hey, man. I got this lady in here today, y'all. She's special, man. When I first started this podcast, it was a certain group of people that I tried to tap into. And most of them was affiliated with me. You all really know that. Everybody we done had. It's only right that I have Julia Beverly in here. Right? Yes, yes. We don't have a clapper. You actually do, on the roll cast. I don't. OK, when I first. I can clap for myself. When I first started, that my brother, I think he said, turn that off. That sound cheesy. When he just claps. Oh, you had a little sound effect. I like the clapping sound effect. I would feel honored, yeah. So, man, how you doing? I'm good, I'm good. Man, you, you, you something else, man. I when I looked at what you've done, your body of work, everything sticks out that says you are part of this culture. And I'm like, wow, man, where did she come from? She would have a sense, you know what I'm saying? But my wife, I know how you do it, so I'm gonna get back because I don't want to get slapped. Yeah. See, when you look at that, when I look on her social media, I have to see all the traveling. I'm like, oh my God, I wish I, all these places you've been, it's amazing. I'm like. I have been, I have been getting around. It's been, it's been a, it's been a great summer. I actually flew in from Kuwait last night. What? Yeah, I saw that. I was shooting a military tour over there. So that was a really good experience. Cause you were in like in a prison section and you were saying something about. Yeah, they took us on a tour of the jail facility there. Well, actually I was with some Houston folks. Shout out to DJ Hawke and DJ Ebonics. We're out there entertaining the troops. You know, they're serving in the middle of nowhere. They don't have anything to do. So they really appreciate, you know, having a little taste of home. But I like to go back. I want to know you as a young girl growing up, are you born and raised in Houston? No, no. I mean, I'm, my family moved all over the place, but I ended up in Orlando. That's where I, I really wasn't exposed to hip hop until high school. Really? And in my high school art class, there was a, there was a guy who sat next to me. He was a really good artist and he would, he brought in that outcast album that had like the name Louis. Okay. Yeah. Louis was a really good artist who would, he would draw the cartoon from the outcast. Like he was kind of copying their comic strip that they had on the, I think it was ATLians album. I think it was their second album. And so we started, like our teacher was real cool. He was like, oh, you can play music or whatever. So he started playing it and I just loved that album. I was like, what is, you know, I don't think at that point I didn't even really know different genres of music or I was just really, just really just a kid who didn't really know much about music. So you didn't listen to music hardly before that? We weren't allowed to listen to music. Really? Yeah. So tell me about your parents. I had a very, no. She's like, no, I don't. You had a very strict upbringing. I had a very strict upbringing. Yeah, we weren't really allowed to watch movies or listen to music or anything. So you weren't one of those, what you call those? The, they live in their own community. They grow their own. Well, I didn't go to school school until I was like 14. So I was homeschooled and yeah. I mean, kind of just a very sheltered like. So how did that feel to you going, you know, to school compared to when you were homeschooled? I'd never been in school before. Well, I mean, I think being homeschooled, I actually, I learned a lot as far as like education wise. I mean, I turned out okay. I'm like pretty smart, I guess. But as far as like the socialization and like knowing how to interact with other people and other, you know, you definitely miss a little bit of that when you're not in a normal school with other kids. So, but I think it was a good experience overall, but it was definitely like an abrupt, you know, to kind of go to a public school for the first time and be like 14, 15. That's why I asked because. I didn't really know, you know, the music people were talking about or TV shows or whatever. I didn't really know anything pop culture wise. So it was definitely like an abrupt, you know. That's why I asked because I know a lot of people do homeschool their kids nowadays, especially after COVID and so forth. And with all of the, you know, the shooting and stuff like that in schools, a lot of people did choose to raise their kids at home. But I always thought about, you know, socialization. Especially if you're only child, if you don't have any more siblings or you're not around cousins and so forth. Because in reality, yes, you're getting them a book smart, but they're going to get grown and they're going to have to know how to deal with society as they get older. So, you know, I'm always torn between them. Well, I do think it kind of like, it kind of taught me to just be an independent thinker because school is kind of, school is really designed to teach you to like be somewhere 40 hours a week and do what you're told. Okay. You know, the public school system. I mean, that's, it's kind of preparing you for the workplace where you're just going to go there from eight to five every day and kind of put your time in and get your check, you know. But I think, I definitely think a little differently than that, so. Okay. And I like to learn. So if you, if you have a desire to learn things, I think you can learn it in any setting. You don't necessarily have to be, you know, reading a book or in a classroom or whatever to learn. So. Were you an only child? No, I have three siblings. Three siblings? Are you youngest or oldest? I'm the oldest. The oldest. So a lot of things fell on your shoulder. They didn't look, looked up to you? Oh, I would think so. I mean, I didn't really, not that they were like bad kids or anything. I don't think I was responsible for, you know, raising them or anything like that. But I was definitely the oldest who kind of was, you know, they, the, the leader, I guess you could say, when you're the oldest. So would you say that your love for the music, once you got into the music, your first love was outcast? Yeah, definitely. And then when I ended up starting ozone and then I was in Atlanta, they were actually, their, their studio was across the street from us. So we would, you know, I would just see, just see them outside. So that was kind of cool. Like a full circle kind of moment to, you know, even to be able to see their, I forget what year it was, but they did their big like reunion tour and they did two sold out shows in Atlanta at Centennial Park. So I got to go watch them perform. It actually worked out cool. Cause I went one night as kind of like a fan just to watch. And then the second night I brought my camera and did the whole, you know, was able to shoot them VIP status and all that stuff. So I felt like I got the full, you know, it was really cool looking back like, you know, that at that point when I first was exposed to their music, like that really put me on to a lot of other things as far as hip hop. And so I don't, I don't think I would have taken the direction that I did, if not for that, you know, experience. So shout out to OutKast. And then Tupac as well. That was, that was the second, you know, of course Tupac was. Cause that was in that era. I think he had maybe just passed or right around that time was when I started listening to a lot of hip hop. And I mean, it's unfortunate that when, you know, an artist dies, they do get that publicity where, you know, people who might not have been exposed to them previously, you know, started listening, but I started listening to his music and really like related to it on a certain level. Like, I think that, I mean, I was pretty naive to like the topics he was actually talking about, like him being, you know, a black man and the experiences he had, obviously I wasn't experiencing that, but the emotions that he was talking about, I think were things that, you know, everybody can relate to on some level. And so that's why he had the impact that he had, you know, worldwide. And like even now I wouldn't saw his, he has a museum now in Los Angeles. So that was really cool to go and see all his original writings and just the volume of material that he produced, even being, you know, so young when he passed away, they have whole, you know, to have a whole museum of his writings and, you know, not just music, but he had written screenplays and poems and, you know, just to see the volume of stuff that he produced in his short lifetime was pretty cool. Was it, did you have any partners when you first developed Ozone and Ozone Magazine? Was it just you or was it you and Tony? No, well the way that Ozone came about was originally there was a magazine called Orlando Source and Mert Design was the, or Mert Smith, but he went by Mert Design. He was like the Orlando go-to guy that did all the party flyers and he wanted to take those flyers and, you know, basically give people a way to advertise. How old were you when you started it? When I started with, so I started shooting for him, I did some photos for him and I, rather than giving him the photos, I did like a whole layout because I was kind of trying to learn the software in seven. So he was like, oh, well you can come, you know, work for me. And so I did the second issue, like in 24 hours, like I just sat there and designed it. And then for the third issue, I think because he had to pay me by the hour, he was like, why don't you just be my partner? And we'll just, so really he just didn't want to pay me by the hour. But it was a good opportunity for me. So we did that for about a year and I think I was probably 19 at that point. So I was really young. I was actually went to college for like a year and then I dropped out. So just cause I was working and had too much going on and I just finished my degree actually during COVID. So I'm not gonna drop out anymore. Yeah, I went back and finished. What was your major? Psychology. Psychology. I just want to tell you thank you, man, because during that time I really, I watched the awards, I watched all the stuff that you guys were doing. I want to say thank you for the South. You know what I'm saying? Because a lot of times you know and I know how they would leave the South out and I felt that cause I'm older. So I would, I was like, man, you know, I thought like that was big for me. Well, I think the BT Hip Hop Awards, they started doing that cause of the Ozon Awards. Yeah, I agree with you, I agree with you on that. So, you know, at that point, yeah, there was a lot of artists who felt like I think even it might've been GZ or one of the artists that got an award like at the first show got up and was like, you know, I didn't get recognized anywhere else, but Ozon, you know, is for the streets representing for us. So, you know, that first year was kind of crazy. I loved it. To answer your question, yeah, Mert was my original partner with Orlando Source. And I, even with the first issue, he had taken the actual Source logo and just threw Orlando on there. And I was like, you know, we can't do that. Like you can't just take your logo. So we had changed the logo. But me and him, like after it was about a year, I think we did that. And we ended up going our separate ways, but we're still, you know, we're cool now. But at that point, I was going to put out the last issue. And I had a friend who said, you know, why would you stop? Like, why don't you just change the name? So we took the O from Orlando Source and just change it to Ozon. Because that's like a name for Orlando Source. Right. When I look back, I see that picture of me and Benzino right there. Yeah. And you say the source. And I think about this research I was doing and what do you say it on that machine? Oh, yeah, they called me Slut Monkey. Oh my God. I didn't think I was going to get to hear it, but I was listening like, dang, like I didn't know it, you know, until I listen to it. Why would he call you that? I didn't know about that. He was all that pretty bad. Well, they had a whole other story. They had owed me some money. I did some work for the source and, you know, I kept asking them, when I finally ran into Dave in Miami, we were going in the same club. And I said, hey, Ben, I've been calling the office for months, like about my check. What's going on, you know? And he kind of like, he was like smoking or whatever, he kind of blew smoke out and kind of just looked at me and then walked into the club. And I'm like, uh-uh. Wow. So I've just wrote something slick in the next issue, you know. Trying to find the way to them. It's so late one night. And it was just funny, because I forgot all about it. Like by the time you, you know, when you write something and publish it and it comes out and it hits the streets, it's like a month and a half later. So it's like midnight and I get this call and somebody's just cussing, you know. He was cussing up. So yeah, he had actually called me, Benzino had called me that night. And I mean, for a good hour was just, and I'm like. Oh, you talked to him actually. And you didn't hang on the phone on him? I found it kind of interchangely at the time. So what happened was I was telling somebody about it. Like he, I mean, he made all kinds of threats. I'm gonna send, you know, I'm gonna send a bitch after you. She's gonna crack your camera over your head and she's gonna, it was, you know when a guy's trying to insult a female doesn't really have any grounds to go up. You know, he was like, I was probably like 110 pounds at the time. He was like, you fat bitch. I'm like. Uh-uh. Like just, he was just pulling anything out to just throw at me. And I just, so I was just listening like, this is crazy. To get you to react. But I was telling, you know, this was back when we had like AOL, instant messenger or whatever. So I just remember I was listening to him and I was talking to somebody on the computer like a DJ friend of mine. I was like, you won't believe like Benzino's, you know, cussing me out right now. So he was like, oh, I wish you had recorded it. I would put it on a mixtape. So I go to the office and like a few days later check the office voicemail because nobody really checked it that much. But he had called there first and left this message. He was like, called me a slut monkey. Oh, it was tough. I seen it. I was like, I heard it this morning. I was like, what the heck? I had never heard that before. So I sent that to my DJ friend. And so I think the core DJs ended up, you know, Tony Neal had the core DJs, like everybody in the country was on his mailing list or whatever. So he sent it out. What did Benzino say about it when he heard all of that? You know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I've seen him recently. We're, you know. You're cool now. We're cool. I didn't really ever take it that personally. Right. You know. That's good though. It could have went totally opposite. Somebody could have really took it to heart and did talk. Well, he got sued over, you know, Kim Osorio sued them over, you know, I guess a workplace environment, not being friendly to women. Oh, okay. And that was one of the examples that they used. No, I don't know about all the details of that. But yeah. Yeah. You said you had, I can't, you were taking pictures before even Ozone started. How did you start being a photographer? I've really just always, I mean, even since I was a kid, I've always had, you know, back when I had disposable cameras, I was going through, you know, rolls and rolls of those. So I just started shooting when I was around the time that I started working with Orlando source. I remember, I remember one of my very, probably the very first show I ever went to, like Mert said, you know, there's going to be the show at Capone and Noriega at this club. And I mean, I'm like 19. I don't know anything about anything. I'm just this white girl. And so I go to the club like, Hey, I'm here for the show or whatever. But I was looking back at my photos cause I'm actually going to put a book out of my photography. But I have this whole like roll of film where I get to the concert or wherever and these two guys came in, these two like, I don't know, Puerto Rican guys and they both had like red sweatsuits on, like matching sweatsuits. And they had a whole bunch of people with them. So I took like a whole roll of film of these guys cause I just thought this must be Capone and Noriega. Like they look like they're rappers or whatever. And then, you know, of course later I realized like, they're not the ones performing. That's, they were just some random guys that showed up. But I took like all these photos back stage. So yeah, I didn't really know what was going on in music at that time. I was pretty green, but I was like the energy of just watching the crowd like interact with the artists. And not only just hip hop, I mean, I used to shoot a lot of like anything that came to town in Orlando, anything I could get access to, I would shoot rock concerts and reggaeton and reggae. And in the beginning, the ozone was actually much like wider genres. Like it was anything that happened in Orlando. And so we would cover, there was, Orlando is a very diverse city. There's a lot of Hispanics. So there's a lot of like reggaeton concerts. There's a lot of people from Haiti and Cuba. I have a lot of family down there. Yeah, Florida is very, you know, you have a lot of influences from the Caribbean and Hispanics. And it's just a really a mix type of environment. So we used to shoot like all different genres. But what I'm curious about is the fact that being white and heading into the hip hop industry. And being a woman. And being a woman. Were you faced with any sort of racism or classism or just feminine? I mean, I mean, there's definitely like isolated incidents where I've gotten some of that. Even recently, like when I went to the Nipsey, we were talking about LA earlier, like the Nipsey funeral, you know, afterwards. You was at the Nipsey funeral. Yeah. How was that? Cause I had a guy on here that said they was smoking weed and everything else and they were like a party. Like the actual service? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't, me personally, I have a belief I don't shoot concerts. I mean, I don't shoot funerals. Like I don't think you should be taking pictures and all that. But I mean, they were live streaming it. So I guess. Anyway, when I was, I took pictures at the memorial and I had people, you know, people making little comments to me like, ah, white bitches, you know, can't be in here or whatever. For the most part, I mean. I mean, in the beginning, I just felt like it was more, more of an asset than a liability because it's just something that makes you stand out. So that's really how I knew a lot of artists was that they would go, you know, like a little John or whatever at the time that was just starting out or just, you know, starting to get his music out there. He would see me at like concert at Miami and then he'd see me in Atlanta and eventually be like, like, who are you? Like, because I stand out. I mean, if you, you know, if you go in the club and there's this white girl with the camera, like you're gonna remember. So I feel like it was in the beginning, it was, it was a good thing because a lot of people would just kind of recognize me because I would just stand out. So I definitely didn't, like I said, I didn't know anything about really the history of hip hop. So there's been artists who, you know, as I started to like get into the game, like somebody like Scarface would be like, yo, I need to, you need to listen to every song. And he's, you know, showing me his iPod. Like you need to learn about, you know, the history and, you know, where this sample came from. And I mean, he's right. You know, if you're going to be the voice for the, for the culture you want to learn. Cause I'm going to say something about him because I saw an article where he did commend you for being one of the one journalists who actually told the whole story about, you know, the whole culture and everything. When people weren't doing that back then, people were only doing being one sided. So he did give you props on that. Oh, that's dope. I didn't see that, but that's, shout out to him. Yeah. Well, he seriously was like, you know, that here's my iPod, like, you know, and even today, like kids hear new music that's, it's not new, like it's just a sample of something else. That's right. You know, it's a generational thing. Like if you don't know that this is the exact same beat that came out 20 years ago with a different artist, you know, you don't know the history of it. So when it came to like, as far as music reviews and stuff like that, I always tried to assign that to somebody else because I don't feel like I'm the right person to do that. So I would have like DJs or really knowledge, knowledgeable journalists, analyze the actual music. But when I would go interview artists, I was honestly just asking questions I was curious about, you know. Let me ask about, cause I'm trying to grab everything I can. You, I've seen you on drink champs with Jay Prince. How did you and him formulate a relationship for, you know, just a business type or whatnot? Just give me the history on how you guys linked up. Well, I guess around the time, Ozone started really expanding cause like we started in 2002, but we were pretty much just in Florida. So Ozone started in 2002, but we were very like central Florida focus. And we didn't have any money. So it was like however many issues we can print up, that's however many we're gonna put out. So the way we started expanding was that I would be surprised. Like I put, I put a few magazines in a box in Miami in a box in Tampa. And we wouldn't really get a huge response, like from the big cities. Like, you know, somewhere like Miami, they've got three radio stations and they've got newspapers and they have outlets. But what surprised me was that like, for example, like that first, you know, we put a box out in Tampa and we started just getting all these calls from Tampa, whether it was DJs or artists or, you know, people who had stores that wanted to advertise like stores like yours. So cities like that, once we started really traveling a lot like cities like Tampa or Birmingham or Mobile, like they didn't have, you know, the artists in those cities, they didn't, it's very hard to get on, you know, the clear channel station or whatever is not gonna play. You know, Rich Boy is trying to come out of Mobile. You know, somebody like that who really does have some, some movement has a fan base, but there's not really, and back then there wasn't Twitter and Instagram and YouTube and all that. So they wouldn't really have a platform to, you know, put themselves out there, especially visually. You know, we take things like YouTube for granted, but back then like, you know, Ply's or somebody like that would have a MixSafe come out and everybody would be playing it, but not know what he looks like or, you know, not really have like that visual aspect. So I guess I'm getting off track from your question, but... It's okay, I'm just glad you're talking. So we started, we had this map on the front of Ozone and it was supposed to represent our, where we were distributed and people started, we started getting these angry calls because we weren't in Texas yet, but so the map didn't have Texas. And so people would always call and send us feedback like how are you, are you saying this is the South? Like how are you not including Texas? So for me, I don't think I had really traveled, you know, to Texas at that point. So I didn't understand like the culture and the reach that you guys have here. Because you're really very kind of insulated, but also have a huge, you know, distribution network. Well, I learned a lot, even researching the PIMC book, I learned a lot about, was it Southwest? Yeah, South by Southwest. No, not the conference, but the distribution network. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's in Houston, isn't it? Yeah, well, I don't think they existed. They're doing no more. UGK was actually the first independent project that they distributed. And so I interviewed a lot of artists who would talk about how they really weren't pursuing major label deals, because they could distribute in Texas and sell like 150,000 albums. So why would you go and give big chunk of your income away? So Texas had this huge network, but it also was like kind of closed off to other, it was very insulated. So I say all that to say we started, like every month we would get the magazines. I would literally like, I think I had like a Corolla back when I first started out. So we would have like 20 boxes of magazines. And you drove? It would just be on the ground. And so we would drive, we had a sort of like independent distributors. So it would be somebody, like it might be somebody like you who has a store and you have people in the community come in or might be like a DJ or a radio station. So we would just go city to city every month and you know, hey, come meet me at Chevron, I got a box for you. So that's how the distribution started out because we tried to get in the beginning when I tried to get an actual magazine distributor, they weren't, you know, they were like, what is this? This is, you know, it's a street magazine. So Rappelot around the time that we started distributing in Texas was around the same time that I think that they had a deal with, was it asylum? I think it was there, asylum, Warner. Cause Rappelot was kind of, you know, of course they were very known like on the streets. Oh yeah, they mill around. In Texas, but they also, they weren't prior to that. I don't think they were doing a lot of like national press, like they didn't really have a market. They weren't really like marketing it in the same way that major labels did. So once they linked up with asylum, you know, that put them kind of under the Warner umbrella and labels back then would do a lot of like press junkets where they would reach out to, you know, all these different media outlets and just really put a push behind the album release. So around the time we started doing a lot of stuff in Texas was when I think they put out definitely the Pimp C solo album. I'm going to be honest, this is going back 15 years or so. So I'm trying to remember all the specifics, but around like 05 is when I started coming out here a lot. So there was, you know, this is when Mike Jones was dropping. Yeah, John Mike Jones, Paul Wilde, and my guys. Who? You said Mike Jones. I know, I know, you've been asking so much this week. I'll make me see you cry now. What did you think about? I'm not sure which were, which were Rappelot, but around that time like 05, there was a lot of material coming out, Swisher House, you know, Rappelot that was previously, of course they had been putting material out, but it wasn't getting like the national kind of look. And so since we were kind of in that system at that time, like Atlantic and Warner and Asylum would, you know, reach out to us. So that's when I started doing a lot of stuff with, with Rappelot. And so of course I would, you know, Jay is very, I mean, I love the fact that Jay is always out. Like he, so that's how he knows what's going on. He works, he knows what's going on. He's not, you know, a lot of executives, you know, kind of will fall back and they'll, they'll just go up in their mansion or whatever. But he'll be in the streets and really know what's going on. I think you have to when you, when you, like, like he was, he's always been the guy to go to guy. And so you have to know what's going on. And I believe he was able to speak to it throughout the years. Probably better than anybody else could, you know, when he come down to hip hop. Especially when, yeah, I mean, I really learned a lot working with him and just, just being able to, you know, kind of observe and see how he handles business and stuff like that. Correct. So I did some work with him. I mean, as far as when we were doing ozone, I would have the opportunity to kind of just tag along with him with certain rap live stuff. And then I ended up helping him with his, his book release into that. Yeah, I was live. I've seen, I've seen. The art and science of respect. Respect. You know, I think he has seen what I did with the PIMC project and, you know, he had, obviously he had all kinds of avenues to put a book out through a major, you know, through a major publisher, but he was weighing the options. Like, could I just put it out myself? And so that's what I, So he self published. Yeah. So, well, basically, I basically helped him set up a rap a lot arm, you know, a publishing arm to actually put the book out. So he was able to keep it all in house. We did everything, you know, the whole design and the whole release and everything. And I told him, you know, I felt like it fit the rap a lot, you know, rather than you just going and getting a check from somebody and then you don't really have full control over the project. You know, that's what they had been doing the whole time all those years with the music. So it made sense to do that with the book. And at that time, you had so much knowledge where that was concerned just to be able to teach him and tell him exactly what to do. Yeah. I mean, I had learned a lot about the publishing side of it. And so we were able to put it out independently and have full control over it. And then I helped him put together the marketing for it. So we ended up, I think originally it was going to be like a three week tour and it turned into like three and a half months. You know, he did tons of press. Oh yeah. He was everywhere. He was everywhere. Yeah. I want to ask you about the PIMC. I want before this. Yeah. Definitely. I know I got to get her out of here, but I got to ask you about PIMC. You met him in prison. I mean, when he was in prison and I wanted to ask you about just the, when you met him, did you ever even talk about doing any book with him or anything like that? Or did something that happened way after? No, that happened later. But he, even as I was researching for the book and going back and reading some, you know, some of our early interviews, he'd even asked me like to help manage him. And I wasn't in a, I had so much going on. When he first got out of prison, you know, he was kind of talking to me about putting a tour together and, you know, getting all these artists. And I kind of was kicking myself. Like, you know, did I, did I slip up and miss some opportunities here? Cause you had a booking agency at that time as well, right? Yeah. I've been doing bookings since 08 as well. So kind of overlapped with the, with the Ozone years. I still, you know, I just have a lot of contacts with, especially overseas. I get a lot of bookings overseas cause they don't know necessarily who do I deal with to get an American act. And they want to know that it's, you know, legit. There's a lot of like scammers who say that they're booking agents. So that's, that's definitely a whole other side of the industry. But yeah, Pimp, I met him when he was in prison and that was part of the whole. You went to visit him? Yeah. It was, it was part of something that asylum warner had put together. You went to the tarot unit? Yep. Damn. Yeah. I wasn't going into the tarot unit. You know, I walked in there with a video camera and I've, I had a, back when I had a day job, my last, I haven't had a day job since I was 19, but my, my boss, back then he used to always say, ask forgiveness, not permission. Yeah. Yeah. So you snuck it in? Not really. I just had it in my hand and I said, well, they didn't tell me that I can't. So I'll just walk him in. So I had it right there signed in. So I have a, I have a video of him in prison. Well, that's gonna come out with the movie or the documentary or something. It should come out at some point. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't really know what to expect. I didn't know a whole lot about the whole history of UGK because like I talked about, you know, kind of the generational aspect of it. You know, for me, somebody who's just starting out in the industry, 2002, 2003, you don't really have a concept of what was going on back in the mid nineties or, you know, so a lot of the research that I did for the book was, was stuff that I was learning for the first time. So when I went to interview him, I had a couple, Matt Sanzala who shout out to him, he's a journalist in Texas. And DJ Wally Sparks was our music editor at the time. So I would try to rely on people who were more knowledgeable than me. And I called them and said, hey, I get the opportunity to go interview Pimp C, you know, tell me everything there is no. And so based on what they, you know, he was kind of wild back in the day. So they had me expecting just this, you know, this guy was just crazy, you know, off the chain. And, you know, I was a little apprehensive like, okay, I'm going to prison. This guy's kind of, kind of wild. Like, what do I expect? But he was just super mellow and chill. And, you know, he had a, his mom talked a lot about, you know, some of his struggles with mental health. And, you know, he had some, some drug issues like prior to him going in. And I felt like she was really open about all that kind of stuff. So, you know, I, how long had he been locked up when you, when you had went to see him? He must have been in there about four years, right? I think it was right around, he probably was in there about three years. About a time. So it was almost time for him to come back. Yeah. Well, it was, it was, so I was seeing him, you know, just who he was without any of the, you know, outside influences. And he was, he was really like in a clearer headspace. And he talked about kind of being grateful. You know, I'm, obviously this isn't a good thing, but it's probably good that it happened to me because I was, I was out of control. And, you know, I don't know what would have happened if I was still on the streets. And so, so he seemed to have like a really good perspective about it. And then he ended up coming out, I think probably, probably it was only a few months after that when he actually got released. And so at that point, you know, there's a whole new generation of kids that are listening to this Texas music that are, you know, listening to Mike Jones and they don't know the whole history of UGK that, you know, that the work that they put in to kind of lay that foundation. But they knew because of Bunn's campaign that he was coming home. They didn't, a lot of them knew because Bunn was so hard for him. A lot of people heard this from PMC, but they didn't really, and I was one of them. I didn't really, I heard that, but I didn't really know why, okay. Why should we free this guy? Like, you know. Bunn, he was killing it though. You like, did you talk to Bunn before or during that time or you didn't talk to Bunn, you just went straight to deal with PMC? Yeah. We had definitely interviewed Bunn as well. Before that. Yeah. Okay. They had, I believe they both had solo albums that came out in the first time. So, you know, for label, if you have a Southern artist that's coming out around this time, 2005, I mean, Ozone was the place to go. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, we had definitely done a lot of stuff with Bunn. And you spoke to his mom before you went and interviewed him in prison and you know, he spoke to his mom after. No, I had never met his mom until after he passed. I mean, I always wanted to write a book. Like I was, I don't really want to publish a bunch of books but I always thought, you know, hey, I should do a book on the right topic. And so when he passed, I really was observing a lot of other things and you know, the level of sort of respect that Biggie gets and that Tupac gets being these hip hop legends who have passed away and I felt like Pimp was not really getting right. Where were you at when he passed? I was in New York. And what did you think when you heard it that morning? I asked these kind of questions. Like when you heard it that... Well, I actually wrote about it in the book. Okay. I was doing a press run for Ozone. So I had done, I think Wendy Williams and a couple other shows. Okay. I had texted him for some reason or called him and he didn't answer like the night before. And so Wendy Day called me the next morning. I always tell her whenever she calls me now she'll text me first and say nobody died. Wow. Cause she's a legend in hip hop as well. I don't know if I'm familiar with Wendy Day but it's kind of unusual for her to call me. You know, I mean, even today usually you'll like text somebody first instead of just calling him out of the blue. But so I was just surprised to see her call me. I was at the airport and or heading to the airport and I just picked up the phone and she said did Pimp see really die? And I was like, I don't think so. Why would he be, you know, why would he be dead? And that's when, you know, started to call people and once it became clear, it was like really, you know, that was really true. It was kind of, it's kind of upsetting to me cause a lot of people I knew were kind of, like a lot of acquaintances were kind of calling me and they sounded like, it was like a new, you know, like this is actually somebody I considered a friend. Yeah. You know, and for people to be kind of, I don't want to say excited, but they were like kind of like, oh, did you hear the news? Like it was, you know, just this. Same way they do today when somebody passed away, they started acting as if they, they already know how to act when somebody passed, especially a rapper. This is sad. It's a pre-stage- Well, I was just turning my phone off because I didn't want to, you know, it was just those conversations you didn't really want to have. And so I just remember feeling very, like kind of like deflated would be kind of, because we had this great like kind of momentum going and when he first got out of prison, like he was on a real positive, like let's get all this out together, let's tour, like let's, you know, show love to each other. It affected Bun, it affected Bobo, it affected Steve Bilo who been on this show, it affected a lot of people, it affected Pimp and Ken. Everybody I've talked to, it affected he's a Leo. It even affected that 17 guy. What I'm telling you is a lot of those guys, and you notice, if you've been studying psychology, it takes a toll on you when you lose something, when you got a momentum, you went through it yourself. You know what I mean? Well, it was like a duel, like I felt sad as considering him a friend, like somebody who lost, but also just looking at it from a journalistic standpoint and what we lost as a culture. Crazy. And even more so, like when I started researching for the book and really understood like how, you know, TI and you know, the big timers, like all these people named him as like, that's the reason why, you know. We do. Man, it affected Jay Prince too. It affected everybody, man. So, it was definitely a big loss for the culture. And so. It affected me. I ain't gonna lie to you, it affected me when he was in prison. I'm a fan, so I'm steadily, I'm anticipating him getting out. And when he gets out, then this happened, it's like, dang, a double whammy, you know. Then I started thinking, everybody up there, it was too short. I knew they had songs together, I followed all that. So it was like, man, you know, it hurt for us. But in the South, you know, like I said, we already had some high heels to climb. I put it like that. Because like I said, without you, there becomes a bigger hole in what's going on down here. You know what I mean? Did you feel the same way that Pimp felt about the South being hated on and the things that he felt about the way that, you know, people looked at us being from the South? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I could really relate to a lot of the stuff he was saying when I first interviewed him in prison. You know, he talked about just this attitude, like originally, I could relate to it because originally when I started out, I wanted to work for, you know, the Soros or Double XL. And I can remember going up there and going to their offices and kind of at that point, it was like, I'm trying to get a job here. You know, I'm trying to get, I'm trying to be a part of this and not feeling welcomed in that sense. And so, you know, Pimp talked about that as well. Like originally he wanted to, you know, be a part of hip hop and he felt like they kind of rejected him. Yeah. And so getting to a certain point where it's just like, well, I don't care what you, I'll just do my own thing. That's the way Ozone was. So that's how Ozone really, you know. That's what I think about. How big do you think they would be if it would have been in New York or in California? Ozone. I don't think it would have worked because the whole reason was that we were providing a service that was not existing. Existing down here. But if you had the concept and you were based up there and you was providing for the South. Well, the difference was, I used to go to shows in the South and like Plyas is one that I remember. I remember going to a show where he had this mixtape out and every, the club was jam packed. You had like 2,500 people rapping every single word and he didn't have a deal. And I remember there's moments like that where I just remember looking around and I was the only journalist, the only photographer there. And I would wonder, like am I missing something? Like why is nobody else? You know, they didn't have people on the ground like how we did. They're in office in New York. So they don't really know. And I carry that with me today. Like I'm, you know, not without getting into politics and stuff and I'm shooting some political campaign stuff like I did last year. But I always, I believe in going on the ground. Like if you're not there, you don't really know what's going on. You could do as much internet research as you want, but you got it. If you want to know the temperature and how people are feeling, you got to like be in front of them. Because being a journalist can be very dangerous. Yeah. I bet she knows that. You don't ever think about it. No, she... Dangerous how? Like... Dangerous, okay. The ones that I feel are dangerous. It's the ones that go like to war just to... Oh yeah. If you're a war photographer for sure. Right. And to write about that. Well they're supposed to be kind of an unspoken. Well there's a storm chase for the same thing. Yeah, storm chase is the same. It can get dangerous. Would you ever do that? Yeah. So you like danger, don't you? To a point. I mean, I did go, I went to Afghanistan during the war with Paul Wall when he went over there and performed. Wow. How did you like it? How did you like it? We were surrounded with, you know, everywhere we went, we had, you know, snipers on the helicopter with us and... But I mean, that was an experience for sure. Did Paul Wall do a good job? Yeah, they loved it. Oh yeah, he killed it? Well, at that point, I think that some of the bases we were on, there were a lot of people who had been stationed at Fort Hood. Okay. So there was a lot of techies. They loved it. So, you know... What song was hot like during that time? You know what I mean? This was probably... I'm gonna break them off real quick. 2009 that we went. I mean, you know, Paul has a bunch of records. Yeah, he got a lot, man. Grills, all his stuff. And he's also like just a genuinely nice guy. He's a very nice guy. He's very approachable. So yeah, I have a lot of people come up and say, you know, I listened to your mix tape and I was stationed at Fort Hood. You know, just give them that taste of home. Being a journalist, what would you say is the pinnacle of your career so far that you've accomplished? Oh, that's a good question. I mean, as a journalist, I just always like to have control over my material. So I don't do a whole lot of writing for other publications. I always just like to do my own so I can have full control over the images and the edits and everything. But I probably have to say the Pepsi book. And so how that came about after he passed, you know, it was kind of something that I was thinking about for a while. And I finally asked Bun, you know, I just called Bun and said, I have this idea. How do you feel? And, you know, he pretty much gave me the green light to go ahead with it. And so I approached his mom next. And his wife agreed in the beginning too. That's a whole other story, but... Yeah, I think I heard you speak on that a little bit. Yeah, we won't get into that too much. But when I went to meet with his mom, I kind of, I was kind of nervous, you know, because I hadn't met her before and I had this whole like kind of, you know, spiel prepared of how I was gonna picture on it. We, you know, took her out to eat. And, you know, from the very first sentence, I said, hey, I've been thinking about, you know, doing this book, she was just all on board with it. And so I was surprised that she was so, you know, enthusiastic about it. And as I got to know her and we spent more time, she kind of explained that he had, you know, spoken so highly of me, like from the beginning, you know, when I first went to visit him, he had called her and said, hey, I met this, you know, she's got this, she's got this magazine. So she had already heard a lot about me. And it's funny actually, because when I went in and I had already sent him some magazines, I think Wendy Day had given me his address or whatever. So when I first sat down, you can like hear it on the video or whatever, when I first sat down and said, hey, I'm here, you know, from Ozone, he was like, who owns this magazine? I thought he was like mad, like we printed something, you know, wrong, whatever. And I said, I said, I do, you know, I'm this young white, you know, young white girl. And he's like, you own this? I was like, yeah, it's my magazine. So, oh, and you asked earlier, but so about partners, I did have a partner early on, Chino. Okay. Shout out to Chino. He was from Orlando and had a record label called DEA. So, but I ended up buying him out. I think it was like a year or two in. I mean, he was never fully active. He had like five or six other. You had a rep here in Dallas named Pookie. Yeah, yeah, shout out to Pookie, right? I'm doing a research here, you know. Well, I think it was Manny Fresh said one time that we had so many reps. He was like, you know, I was in Africa and this guy jumped out from behind a bush and said he was from Ozone. So, but I hate partnerships anyway. I always feel like if you're own, if you're able to own it right, right. write out, own something, do it, because two people or three people never have the same passion for it. Well, I had so many people try. I mean, like, I had other people try to buy it. And I was never too enthusiastic about that idea because I just like the creative, you know, having the creative control. I wanna ask you about you in Dallas, okay? And that was a song that PMC talked about. I know you strapped, okay? I've asked about this song. I've had a lot of different things. Hits put out all count out and got all kind of people. I gotta ask you that. And then I gotta ask you about the six tape. I gotta ask you, had you ever heard of there being a six tape? Of Pimpsy? Of Pimpsy? No, Daddy had. Daddy had a Pimpsy. Daddy had a Pimpsy. Of somebody else. Of somebody else. It was crazy in here. That sounds like somebody made that up. Made that one up. I say, what am I? Pimping Ken and Bobo was on it. Oh, you don't put it in my damn. And Bobo was on it. They spoke about it. And Pimping Ken said he showed it to him. She got her sources down, be honest with you. When you went and got the sources, how did you pick who you was gonna talk to about Pimp and who would you not wanna talk to? Well, I would interview people and then I'd go back to Mama West and say, hey. What about this guy? How reliable is it? I mean, me and her had conversations about this because I remember saying one time like, why would you just make that up? And she was like, Julia, you know how these people are. Like people want clout. You know what I mean? Like people wanna be the one to be, you know. So she would give me honest opinion. Like, hey, I wouldn't take everything he says. Really? Because she would pick certain words and tell you. But would she know everything that she, did she know everything? She doesn't necessarily know everything, but she knew a lot. She knew a lot though. Yeah, I know that part. And see, she wasn't only his mom, she was their manager for decades. So I mean, she was around. Like she wasn't, you know, cause I've had people give me that kind of feedback before too, like, well, you know, they're picturing like just some old lady that doesn't really know what's going. No, she was in the streets like she knew. I remember like Big Git from Goodie Mom talking about like just seeing, yeah, I would just, you know, they'd be out on the road doing shows and she'd be the one driving the escalator, you know, pulling up to, she was. LaRonna said she was the one getting the money too, baby, out of the money, right? She made her the money came. I gotta ask you. That's one of my favorite stories from the book. Actually, she talked about the first time she went on the road with them cause their road manager went to jail. And these, so they're like 18, 19 going to do this show. And she gets to the club and she said the promoter shorted them. Like, shorted them like $250 or whatever. And she said, I need the rest of the money or are we not going on stage? Man. And, or. I heard something like that. This was it, honestly. Yeah, I heard that. I always tell, it was, who told us this story? Somebody told that story. I heard that story. Ronnie Spencer told us about that too. She said the club owner was being pissy with her and there's all the security around. She's like a grandma, you know, she's this little old lady. And she said the club owner finally, you know, he peeled off the other 250 and he threw it at her. What? And she said she was so nervous cause it's all this security around. She said, she told him, when you find a bitch to pick that money up, you let me know. That was like one of the first stories she told me and I was like, I love her already. Oh yeah, I got to know what I know you strapped. Before you say that, how long did it take you to write the book from start collecting till end? So I spent probably three years researching and then another two years kind of filtering it all out and actually, you know, it's crazy cause I spent the first three years when I was researching. I tend to get distracted a lot. Like I travel a lot. So during that time, I also, you know, I work on it for a week or two but then I'd be, you know, off in Alaska or, you know, Europe or wherever. And so I was not making steady progress like I should have been. So I actually went to interview somebody for the book and I had my cameras in the car and somebody broke in and stole my cameras. Have them. They have them. Insurance covers it. But I said, no, I mean, insurance will cover it. Well, your homeowner's insurance will cover it. It sure will. But then they're gonna jack your rate up. There you go. It sure will. Yeah, you know, I got a little, I got a few dollars. I had to re, basically I had to re-buy all my equipment. And so during that time, it kind of, I kind of looked at it as a, like a forced, like sit down and write the book, you know? And so I, so I sat down for, you know, six months or whatever. And, but it's crazy because if that had not happened, I probably wouldn't have finished because she, she passed away right before it came out. And the last time I saw her, she gave me all this. We had talked about like this stuff he wrote in prison. And it's the last time that we, the last time that we visited. Like, you know, sometimes you feel like there's an urgency about something and you're not sure why, you know? So I was kind of feeling that an urgency to, to spend the last time I was here, I had been with her like for a couple of days and something told me like you should stay longer. So I ended up staying like three more days. And she gave me just this huge stack of, you know, all this lyrics and stuff that he wrote while he was in prison, a lot of like, a lot of stuff that really ended up being crucial in the book. And so she had seen like, you know, some of the early drafts or whatever. But when she was literally like in the, I went to see her in the hospital when she, you know, when she was, you know, in her, in her last days. And that was, that was something she really wanted was for her son's story to be told. And so that gave me that extra like, you know, emotional push to be like, you better, you better stop, stop traveling every, we sit down and finish, you know, put, she wanted this book to, she wanted his story to be told, you know, accurately, that was something she really wanted to pass on. Last two questions. I miss Mama West. She was, she was awesome. She used to cook me dinner and everything while we were doing it. I guarantee you, I guarantee you she, she looking down on you, she proud of what she see. Because you, you know, man, you, you, you basically, you, you did everything right in my eyes. And I didn't, I mean, I be much. She was great to work with. I mean, as, as a journalist, when you go interview people, some people are just, some people have that, that very, that very vivid, you know, I would start asking her about stuff. And she'd be like, yeah, you know, he was wearing this hat and he turned to me and he had this expression on his, and this is stories about stuff that happened 15, 20 years ago. So her input was, was invaluable. She was sharp as a whip. She really was. Yeah. So she, she was, and she was there for everything. I want to ask you about, I know you strapped. You got to answer that before you get off this show. Okay. I know you strapped. You got to tell me, was that about, was that, about, was that about something locally here in Dallas? Yeah. Was it about Master P? Was it, it was a bunch of rumors. I got to offer the disclaimer again, that this, that when we talk about the research I did, we're talking about 2010. Yeah, that was a long time ago. This was 12 years ago. Yes. Yes. So you're not as sharp as a whip as she is. I'm not as sharp as a whip. No. But I did, if you read the book and the book, the book is called Sweet Jones. Yeah. It's correct. Pimpsies true life story. You can get it on Amazon. Yeah, thank you so much. Actually, when you just put out the hardcover, the hardcover will be out in November. You can buy the hardcover. I have it here in a minute because you got to take care of it. The paperback has been out for a couple of years now, but when I researched for the book, everything is meticulously sourced. So you can even go to the back and reference which chapter, you know, where did this information come from? Cause I'm very serious about making sure that the story we're telling is accurate. So I know you strapped. So there was a situation with somebody in Dallas. Again, this has been 12 years, so I should have refreshed all the details, but I believe it was Ron Robinson was his name. Yeah, I heard that. So there was some kind of, I never really got the full, there was an original dispute over something about a show that they did here where they felt like they were underpaid or there was some kind of dispute. And then he had paid them to do a track and then there was a dispute. It was some kind of money or disrespect kind of issue. And yeah, that song was supposedly he had contacted Jay Prince and asked for permission to kill him. That's what I heard. And Jay said, no. Or, you know, arranged for some kind of conversation where they could work out, you know, whatever. But where the confusion came about, I think, because he did, and then there was the issue with Master P came later. So, but a lot of people heard that record and thought that Master P, that it was about Master P. The majority of the song is about this guy, Ron Robinson, a promoter. And so there was a point in time where, and then there was some other confusion too, because their former manager had tried to sue them. And so he sent the like U.S. Marshals to this show in Dallas to try to serve them. And so they thought that it was related to this other situation. So yeah, Pim had a lot of exciting life. That's what he did for sure. He shot us some K-Ru and some old people out on this song. He had some specific names. This guy, Ron, there's actually an episode of Swartz. I think it's one of those reality show Swartz where he actually, I think he killed himself on the show live. So I actually, I think I went back and watched it. But Pimp saw this episode air like years later. So that's the guy. Wow, crazy. He had been involved in a murder, I think. He had been charged with murder. And he killed himself. Was about to be charged with murder. And so he barricaded himself in a hotel. And they had the hostage negotiator out. Yeah, it's crazy. A lot of stuff on the internet talks about Master P and Pimp C and what happened between them early on. A lot of people knew to it being money, some money, all kind of stuff. Did you ever get to the bottom of that? You wrote the book? So I interviewed Master P and he wouldn't talk about it. So when you're a journalist, and like I said, I try to meticulously source stuff. So I interviewed probably, there were several people who were there with, well, not with Pimp, but they got the call that night and said something that happened to him. There was an incident at the hotel room. So something really did happen, you think? Well, yeah. I mean, when I have five or six people telling me, his mom said she saw him in the hospital and he was just beat up. Okay, he was beat up. Yeah. Big Court, I asked him, was he a part of, he said no. I don't think he was around back then. He was around, but he wasn't with him. But he'd been knowing him a long time, but that was a long time ago. You might be right. Well, if I have five or six people telling me that this happened and they have first or secondhand information, and then I have this person who doesn't want to comment on it. I mean, as a journalist, I have to write, and I probably put a little disclaimer that they wouldn't speak on it. Yeah, there was definitely a physical altercation that took place. But that song is mostly not about masterpiece. No, no, no. I know it's about a Dallas thing because he actually talks about it in the song. He kind of specific in that song about what he's talking about. I had a little something to say to Pete because he mentioned it. He spoke on it on the Breakfast Club. I see that. But he called me like some white girl. And I said, listen, you could say whatever, you could think whatever you want to think about me, but if you're gonna speak on me as a journalist, you're not gonna try to make me sound like I don't know what I'm talking about. How did you get the message to him? He came out to a signing that we had. And you went up on him? You went up on him? He came out to a J-Prince signing. Oh, I can't eat something. He just, he made a comment about something and I felt like I had to respond. I mean, you're not trying to say whatever's on your mind, don't you? But I feel strongly about that because there are, the journalists standards have definitely declined where people on blogs and stuff will just hear anything. I take it seriously, if you're gonna put something in print, it needs to be accurate. Or it's all about how you word it. So what may say, this person claims that this happened, we don't know this for a fact, but this is what was alleged. But you gave him an opportunity to speak on it. And I didn't give him an opportunity. So that shows that you're trying to have balance in what you were doing. Exactly, yeah. If you're gonna write about anybody, you gotta, that's a journalistic standard that you need to give them a chance to respond. Where's journalism going? Like I said, I feel like it's definitely declined with the internet because it's all about clicks and people wanting to get, they just wanna be the first one to post about something. I would say it's going away, but people, it also depends on the audience. I mean, people have to have a little longer attention span. Balance. If you're going to really research a book and dig into it and get the accurate information, it's probably gonna take you a couple years. Yeah, but the last question I had, hold on. People don't necessarily have the attention span. The last question I had is, other than your own book, you say you're gonna come out with your own book. Who else, what other book, what other public figure are you planning to write for sometimes more? Would you like to write for? Oh, that's a good question too. I don't know, I don't have any other plans like right now. What I've been working on, my book is like a photography book, so it's like a kind of coffee table. That's a lot. Yeah, my photography, but I tell some kind of behind the scenes stories. Yeah, stories of what happened. Yeah, give a little narrative to it, but that's mainly what I'm working on right now. Are you Sony Canada Nikon? Sony. Used to be Canon, but Sony switched me on. Everybody's loving Sony now. Yeah. The Sony mirrorless are. They go on it, but you see we black magic and all other stuff in here. I see you got all kinds of. No mixing black magic, that's what you see. Well, shots, you guys, congrats on your, man, you've had a story going 15 years. That's a long time. And marriage going 20 years, thank you Julia. Julia, we working over here, man. We thank you, man. I thank you for coming on this platform. I want to thank Bobo for show. I hope I didn't say anything too. You did a good job. Bobo and big court, but Bobo first and big court for sure. Two people that I was, I was say, hey, look, man, you need to get me, Julia. She answered my email, but I don't think she coming, man. You need to make sure to figure it out. Thank you so much. We love you. Yeah, I'm glad we can make it happen. It's been another great segment of boss talk one-on-one. What a boss is talk. And we out.