 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We are thrilled that you are here We have a special guest today Jane Pfeiffer from field trip We're going to be talking about reaching your fundraising potential for those of you who joined us in the green room chatter This is really Amazing I almost wanted to say fortuitous, but that's not the right word But Jane is coming to us from Louisville as of this date. The state of Kentucky has been Visited by some terrible storms and there's been a tremendous loss of life more than three dozen people with still many missing President Biden went to visit Kentucky yesterday And so that you are our witnessing You know nonprofit professionals on the ground right now as we speak talking about something and so Fundraising is a big part of this fundraising Changes when we're in the center of a storm. No pun intended Jane So we're really excited to have you you know with us and and talk about this and maybe a more nuanced way than maybe We had thought when we booked you a couple weeks ago So again, if you don't know who I am or you don't remember who I am sometimes I don't remember who I am I've been away for a little bit. I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy My trusty sidekick Jarrett Ransom the nonprofit nerd herself is not with us today. She'll be back tomorrow We want to make sure that we thank all of our presenting sponsors Many who have been with us since day one and we're kind of moving into our third year of this blue Blumerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller nonprofit nerd National University featuring fundraising Academy staffing boutique and nonprofit thought leader If you've missed any of our more than 600 episodes, you can find us in the archives on roku youtube vimeo And amazon fire tv and now we have all of our episodes in podcast forms So wherever you like to consume this content queue us up and you can take us with you Whatever you are doing. So we'd love to see you with us. Okay, jane. I've done my housekeeping Now I get to talk to you Jane Pfeiffer founder and president of field trip talk to me about how you got the name field trip Yeah, well, you know when you think about what we do So field trip focuses, you know our marketing and branding firm and we focus on nonprofits and helping them You know reduce their biggest expense You know that expense doesn't show up on a p&l or a balance sheet and it's the expense of idk's You know, Julia. Are you familiar with that term? I don't know if I do. Yeah You know, it's the I don't know you I don't know what you do. I don't know why it matters to me I don't know if you can help me And so in solving those problems. We realize that the answers Lie outside outside the board room outside the walls of our organization and in outside perspectives We help executive leaders, you know solve really three basic problems first the Relevance and the need for what they do has never been greater But the friction to get the work done Has never been stronger and then You know a lot of executives are just absolutely frustrated with constantly explaining what they do why they do it and why people should care And that takes time away from doing the mission And then finally there's this grand canyon size gap between the people that we help the beneficiaries that are in need And then the lifestyles the mindsets the thinking of the people who have the resources to support us in our work And so if the out if the answers lie by going outside and taking a field trip You know only then can you come back and really have an informed perspective and a fresh look At how you close that gap Um in all those needs between you know awareness and alignment and advocacy That's what creates that mission multiplier, and that's our ultimate goal Wow, I love it. I love everything you've said. I'm totally on board Because I do see us in our sector becoming We have such a heavy yoke of Doing our work and and serving those that we serve that it's really hard to get that thinking time And I love the concept of what you said the field trip When you go out you see and you learn and you witness something different and sometimes it's just a spark So super cool. I I'm like right right in there with you I really really am so one of the first things that I'm going to ask you about And and I really can't wait to hear what you have to say is You say the nonprofit business model must change First what do you see that model and how do you yeah? So I want to tell you what it isn't it's not saying nonprofits need to act like business for profit business because That just makes a lot of assumption But the model itself for nonprofits has to shift When you look at marketing and communications The abundance of nonprofits to think that that is an occasional Operational luxury that they get to have maybe a communications manager Or maybe they get a grant to do a website or we're going to take this exception this one year and you know advertise this or try and do something different to reach to our donors But in this capacity you have to look at marketing Is really the the biggest proactive investment you can make That will yield returns in all areas so it can impact utilization of your services Which would lead to fee generation Programming you know grants federal reimbursements And it can also work into your donors and your volunteers and your community partners Because if people don't know you understand you and believe that you can solve this problem There's no chance that they want to You know align and partner with you and For those people that aren't sitting at the table don't know us The only way to reach them is through advertising And yet I can feel the shoulders tense because well wait a minute That takes money away from the mission and I'm going to get dinged because our operational expenses Are high That is the truth But we have to get comfortable about how to shift marketing forward as an investment strategy And that's the business model and thinking that we're eager to change right and I love that you called that out because I think that this is one of those things that we see a lot That the stress is between the board And then management and the nonprofit management saying yeah, we need to do this. They understand that But then the board thinking oh, well, that's what you do in the for-profit world and that's that's excessive and you know That's not a good stewardship of our funds and it is just such a pervasive and negative thought um Talk to me about the difference between the organizations that you see Doing it well. I mean is there a sort of thing where you have to be like super great At marketing and really dominate it or is there is there kind of that place where you could start to begin that trajectory? Do you have a sense of where where nonprofits can lie in that? Yeah, you know, julia. It's it's really simple It's just being open to it Now you likely you know within your nonprofit organization because marketing is not that investment strategy Probably don't have the resources that inside, you know, or on your payroll That can help you think like that but just being open to how do we make this shift? And then finding someone that has that perspective and can show you examples of the implications Um, you know, we see this time and time and all we need is just that open mind and that commitment And then everything else can fall into place. Yes, there's a process You know, there's a lot of work to be done because we have to make sure the systems are in place We can't just spend the money and and spray and pray and hope everything ends in the right place But thinking about are we are we tracking numbers? Do we have a process where we're recording inquiries for our services? Do we we know what our, you know Competition looks like and how they're talking about similar services and how do we stand out? So but once you get that, you know homework done and then, you know, turn it on Not in a, you know, this is not a stage show where you show up on stage and advertise once in the curtain falls But, you know, gradually testing a strategy and then pulling or changing one or two levers at a time To see that the needle is moving in the right direction But if your board of directors says, okay, you got 90 days to see if this works, you know, save the money This is a this is a permanent shift in how we think So maybe the added should be instead of, you know, thinking like a business it should be thinking about, you know, marketing as a retailer would Because no, you know bricks and mortar advertiser would just open the doors and wait for people to come They know that marketing and advertising is a fixed cost It's a percentage of sales and this is it's just always done So that might be a closer comparison in how we need to think, you know, I really appreciate that you Layered in metrics in there and to say, look, we need to understand that there's going to be evaluation that there's going to be change And there's going to be nuance. I love that you said that Um before we move any further Not a lot of nonprofits can do this themselves. So yeah partner with somebody that can help them, right? I mean, is that what you're Yeah, and actually, you know, Julia, that was a painful lesson for me You know Coming into and focusing on nonprofits You know, I can tell you a client story where they made that bold investment They knew they wanted to support this particular program because it was being underutilized They had found the money to do it in a way that was, um, you know, could be continued and sustained And so we did our work and um, you know, I'll own it mistake made that we didn't think through Okay, you know, are you tracking the form submissions on the landing page? Are you tracking the phone calls? Are we even do you have your google page claimed like these very very essential things That should have been in place and assumption made Of course we do this thing and you know, so now our This includes really before we spend the first, you know, external dollar All right, here's going to be the flow of our donor or our beneficiaries And here's what their journey is going to be like and can we measure each step? And it's not always precise, but It's it's a direction and a path. So yes, that measurement matrix has to be in place I love that you I love that you owned up to that and I and I really love that Um, you point out it's not just a matter of writing those checks to the media outlets It's really about, you know, focusing on some things internally before you even get to that point Another big part of this which is, you know, a marketing issue. It's a mindset It's an approach. It's a lot of things. I can't wait to have you share with us How do you get the haves to care about the have nots? How does that work? Yeah, you know, that's a phrase that um, some people get really upset with But it does grab your attention and what we're really talking about Is the the gap in resources and You know, there are people in need, you know, we talked about eastern kentucky and the basic human needs that they have now from organizations that were Taking care of, you know, a number of people in that part of the state. We're talking about, you know, the appellation area And so now those resources are just stretched incredibly thin And the news event brings action But can it drive long term change in thinking? Because people have risen to the, you know, to the need because they identify with oh my gosh It's a horrible flood that no one could foresee or prepare for and so therefore I can help There's that empathy and that compassion But when it comes to everyday hunger or homelessness or You know access to to basic health care You know, I have seen board members on some of the largest nonprofits You know, just say well, we you know, we don't need to speak to people like that We need to tell them to just you know suck it up and go get a job And this is an organization that is focused on empowering people and when You're bored not a member. So this is isolated Has that type of mindset they really Well, they'll never experience what that situation is and you know, thank you god I have not either but You know, taking the time to really strip away what we know in our own life experiences And just thinking about how difficult it would be to take a bus trip from one end of town to other or just get there To the place that might offer them shelter for the night You know, it's it's just not that simple and that that huge gap between the haves and the have nots is Is what we have to close not because we want them to become similar people But we want their minds to come together so that we're all on the same journey of lifting everyone up Right, you know, one of the things I advocate a lot It's very controversial in in board trainings that we do is to ask a board If they have ever engaged in the services that they provide and that means have they spent a night in the shelter? Have they you know um Cleaned the aisles of the auditorium for that for their you know, where they do their performances I don't think that should be controversial at all. I think that's a Brilliant idea. It's a I mean if you ever asked that question people would be like, oh But right, would you have a different attitude if you had to eat the food that you're serving? You would call it. Yeah Exactly. I mean a few weeks ago was sat in the cafeteria Of a place that is helping people who have been incarcerated And helping them, you know a reentry facility that is helping them find a way and just Sitting there and talking to anybody who came by but listening to the conversations and the things they were excited about And where there was tension Again, it's a field trip And I you know You have to expose yourself to that to really, you know start to minimize that gap You know, um, this question comes up a lot in our friday ask and answer segment that we do and that is um, we get questions from non-profits that say they want to go visit another non-profit Maybe in their community, maybe in their region Maybe on the other side of the country to learn what they're doing and what they're seeing And it just made me think of you know, the name of your business and the concept of field tripping Um, how do you what do you feel about that? Like how do you feel about that in terms of that that bigger picture? You know, we we have we've got this kind of wish list of ideas and we'd like to somehow figure out like How to make almost a product where yes, you can you know take a team of leaders And whether it's you know visit another non-profit or even you know Go to a commercial space or something that just maybe it's a dressing hunger, but in a completely different way You know, what could you learn by going to maybe a high-end kitchen about? I don't know. I'm grasping at straws But looking at a problem or just how we consume a meal in a completely different perspective Not because that's the goal, but because there is something there in this maybe, you know, four or five star experience That might be able to be applied to your you know, your Hunger non-profit. So how do we create those opportunities to really just shake things up? And I don't know how yet, but one day we'll get there Well, you know to your point, it's it's really um shifting mindset and and you you made this Wonderful statement in the very beginning. You have to open up your mind To the possibility and just rethinking things. Um, Yeah, it's very very interesting and and we talked about this earlier You know when you're so engaged in just trying to get through the day and serve who you're trying to serve it doesn't leave a lot of room for thought and and You know exploration of new ideas and and that's something we really suffer from in our sector. Don't you think? Oh, we get sucked into the tornado of activity and you know dealing with the crisis of the day and the things that need to do and the Bubonic plague of marketing is that nobody's you know pulling on our You know sleeves saying hey, you haven't come talk to me lately like you you should really come and and you know Send me a message. Tell me something new So therefore the the there's no demand or external forces So those tangible things or the areas that we're more comfortable with that's what gets our attention You know, we all get sucked into that. It's really hard to be you know on the business and not in the business You know Everything is difficult and then when you're faced with dealing with a somewhat Intangible area of your business that again chances are you don't have marketing leadership How would you expect it to get a lot of attention and resources? Right. Oh man, it's it's such a you bring up such an interesting thing and and and how we can temper the the tasks that we need to do With the bigger picture and the mission. Um, wow, it's a huge Piece of this but now I've got to ask you this We understand these these forces at work, but the reality is we have a donor experience We have a donor journey. How do we temper all of that? into You know meeting our fundraising goals Introducing ourselves to the community getting the community to engage in a sustainable way How does this look? Yeah, I wish I had a one sentence answer for that You know the way I would break that down We use this, you know triple a assessment when we're thinking about any audience So in this case, we're going to focus on donors and so there's three stages of a relationship that donors have with us It's awareness alignment and advocacy So, you know, those layers are stacked on top of each other and let's say you have incredible You know awareness in a particular area Um, but people just aren't taking action. They're not engaging so that alignment is off Then there are fewer people who can really become our cheerleaders and ambassadors And so where we often get sucked in is thinking I just need more people to be aware of us And so we're going to focus on this top layer But what we don't realize is that if we don't have the systems the thinking the messaging In place to to help people who become aware of us take action Then we're really just increasing our expenses And creating more awareness, but we're still stuck back in a low You know, if you want to call a conversion rate You know, but funnel and we really need it to be instead of a funnel a pipeline So that you know An awareness is you know, can we get it to be a one to two ratio for every two people that's aware of us? One person takes action For every you know two people that take action one person can be an advocate So sometimes the place to start is at the bottom of that funnel and making sure That it's easy to take somebody who has had an ongoing relation and turn them into an advocate Ask them give them the tools and the messaging And the means to go out and recruit for us because if we can improve that ratio Then yeah, we'll get to a point in time where all we need to do is turn on the funnel And and bring more people into that awareness, which is the easiest part But we we got to start in the right place and every organization's ratio or starting point is different Right. So I hear you saying I kind of look within first And not get sucked into that trap that we just need more more more, but really looking internally Now we don't have much time, but I can't wait to have you share your thoughts with us About this wonderful wonderful phrase and that our question I should say and that is are you the hero? Or the advisor What is what are you saying here? Yeah, so hero's journey in brand strategy is not you know a new concept It's a it's an approach to storytelling and branding But what I find in the nonprofit sector and really even in the you know for-profit business Is people often think of the organization itself as the hero and that's really tempting where we're in a space where we are doing Meaningful work. We are changing lives. We are lifting people up and so There is that you know hero moments and and that's part of our passion for the mission But if we're the hero, we're in the wrong position. We need to be the mentor We need to be the advisor We need to be the dumbledore To you know all the students out there and there's a couple ways you can look at this You know a lot of people will then recognize that the hero is actually the beneficiary is the people that we're helping and serving but That is true in a lot of um, you know social and health services But I will also argue that I believe the hero is actually the outcome Because you know a person who's recovering from addiction Yes, there is a story to tell there and we can tell a hero's story But that board member that I was talking about earlier that really doesn't understand why they're in that situation because they made bad choices So just stop making bad choices May have some compassion or empathy for that hero's story But what that likely you know long term business person Will understand more readily is the ripple effect of that that hero story, which is the outcome So this person is now clean and on the road to recovery Which means they can now have custody of their children Which means their children are consistently going to school. They have home They have food on their plate So they're learning and they are leaving, you know, the social services. So is that mother or father There's an economic impact. There's a you know talent pool impact This person is now, you know holding down a job So it's the not just the hero story of the rags to riches or the you know Poor impoverished person that is now in a better place but relating the ripple impact of that outcome and making that outcome the hero is what Somebody everybody can identify with part of that because you can be a mom An educator a business person or you know any type of Any person and find something in that outcome that does resonate with you and moves you to take action Right. Well, I think that you know the the compassion and benevolence factor in the non-profit world has really changed tremendously to data metrics impact And and that is a new level. I think it's a new type of compassion Um, but it's a very interesting Approach in that it's not just benevolence. It's solution based and we're seeing younger donors. They're like, yeah, this is wrong So that's not the discussion. The discussion is how do we solve the problem? And it's it's a fascinating thing because I think older donors have been more like, well This is the compassionate benevolent thing to do Um versus really drilling down And saying what are the solutions and this is hard for nonprofits. It is it is but that Yeah, that advocacy level that we talk about when you have somebody in that level They believe they are part of the solution What you do is part of their identity And they're as committed to you as they are to the the mission of what you do And that's the place we want everyone to be Yeah, so interesting. Well, you have been such a treasure Jane Pfeiffer to come on And then so bizarre to have you Come on and share these amazing thoughts and approaches in a time when your own state is really in a crisis Of of its own and uh, you know, it's it's really been Adjects to position of of what can go on and even at the darkest days We still need to have these thoughts we still we still need to be thinking up here So that we can be more sustainable And so I really appreciate you taking time and and clarifying some of these things During a time of incredible challenge for you and your state. So thank you very much Check out. We are fieldtrip.com Jane. I can't remember. I watched the video and it's it's it's mission mission multiplier mission multiplier fascinating you have a series of Videos you have homework you have drilled down. You're like get out your notes, you know, it was it's really Really good. And so anybody joining us today on the nonprofit show check out we are fieldtrip.com It's an amazing resource. It's free and Really valuable it really amplifies a lot of the things that you were talking about With us today in a very practical very strategic way. So I appreciate you sharing that with us and our viewers Thank you, Julia. Yeah, we aim to be relentlessly helpful I love it. I think that's really super powerful Again, Jane Pfeiffer founder and president of fieldtrip. We are fieldtrip.com check them out There's just an amazing amount of information. Again. I'm Julia Patrick I have not been joined today by my sidekick Jarrett Ransom. She'll be back with us tomorrow We want to make sure that we extend our gratitude to all of our presenting sponsors from Bloomerang American nonprofit academy national university's fundraising academy non-profit nerd your part-time controller non-profit thought leader and staffing boutique These are the folks that are with us day in and day out so that we can present Amazing thought leaders like Jane today to our viewers and to our listeners Jane, this has really been great. What a wonderful way. I mean, I'm coming to you from in the wet from the west coast So I'll I'll say you started my day with a bang. So thank you Thank you, Julia. It's been a lot of fun. Hey everybody as we end every episode episode of the nonprofit show We like to remind ourselves And our viewers and listeners to stay well So you can do well. We're thinking of you our friends in kentucky. We'll see you back here tomorrow