 Hello, everyone. Welcome to Mind Pump. In the first half of the show, we talk about doing the minimum in the gym to elicit the maximum amount of change. Later, we talk about Sal's deadlift record. He's very proud of that. We also talk about orgasm, Inc. on Netflix. I think that there is a cure and that cure is female orgasm. As well as other topics. In the second half of the show, we coach four live callers on questions such as, how do I transition from bodybuilding to powerlifting? What is the best way to train to have a balance between looking good and performing well? And how can I add some weight without gaining unwanted fat? One more thing. If you haven't subscribed to our Mind Pump Clips channel yet, go over there and subscribe. We have short clips that are easy to watch and to share. All right, enjoy the show. The goal should always be to do the least amount of work to elicit the most amount of change. Wise man once said that. The clips are going to go viral because I said it. Well, I quit after that. No, the truth is, to put it differently, you're always looking for the minimum effective dose. And here's why. Because when you do the minimum effective dose, first off, it's effective. So it works. But second, it takes less resources, produces less damage. And it allows for the normal fluctuations of stressors and issues in life. Because if you're always doing the most you could possibly do one night of bad sleep, one stressful conversation, your diet is off a little bit. Well, now you're not progressing at all. So this allows for regular life to occur and for you to continue to progress. So this is why this is so important. It's one of my favorite things to say because I think it flies in the face of totally the dominant narrative in our space. The dogma. Yeah, it's just, I think we highlight and we celebrate the hype and the motivational quotes and the how hard, how long. Yeah. And I think that that feeds into a bad relationship with exercise and nutrition for a majority of people. Now, does that not mean that I think there's value in pushing ourself past our limits sometimes? Does that mean that I don't think I should ever stretch myself or if I was an athlete, if there's not some value in building mental fortitude by pushing beyond and so that. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm speaking to the general population that is trying to get healthier, that's trying to build muscle, that wants to lose body fat, that wants to be more mobile, that wants to live a better quality life. That's who I'm talking to when I say that and I think that that's the message that those people need to hear more of and less of this hype bullshit. It's a fundamental change in how we view exercise. The way that we tend to view exercise is that the progress and the results and the benefits happen during the workout. So it's the pain, it's the sweat, it's the calorie burn. That's what's important. That's the lead. Those are not important. I mean, there's some value in some of that, but most of the value is in the adaptation that occurs afterwards. So really what you got to do is look at your workout and say, how can I send this signal to my body to get the adaptations I'm looking for and then stop. Anything beyond that, anything over sending that signal. Now it's just taking away resources and requiring more recovery and then this is what happens. You train that way where you go above and beyond what's necessary and your life screws it up because you're going to have days where you're not going to have perfect sleep and have days where you're a little more stress. So the long-term fail rate with this constantly pushing yourself to your limit is super high. Now, if you do the minimum effective dose, it's still effective and over time it's just, it's way more effective because things don't interrupt it. I have the perfect slogan for this. You guys ready? Yeah, go. Don't be a martyr, be smarter. Oh, wow. That was actually pretty good. Deep. Train on a t-shirt. No, but this message has been a tough one for me to adopt. I remember I used to make fun of Adam all the time because he would do like the all show no go and like, you know, he'd like owned all that and, you know, no girl asked me how much I bench in the bedroom, you know. And so like a bunch of stupid lines. This was the first one that's stuck, you know. Yeah. So, but yeah, no, it's so true though, because there's just such this mentality that you need to punish yourself and that's all kind of wrapped into the hype and the like more is better and all of that and, you know, to just kind of pull yourself out of that and actually like really assess what's working for you and like what's moving you forward even with your physique, with your overall health, with your energy, with all these other factors that are important. That's really what you need to be concerned with. It also feeds into the self hate model. Like if I just today all of a sudden I'm motivated, I need to work out. I haven't worked out ever or in 10 years. I'm overweight. I look gross or whatever. I'm going to be drawn to workouts that are going to punish me because I'm already hating myself. So it's going to feel cathartic. Yeah. Let me go to the gym and sweat it out. Let me go make myself sore. That's what I deserve. So the fitness industry knows that and they capitalize on it. And this is how they sell crazy workouts and diet pills and extreme diet plans because people are entering into it hating themselves. When we've talked about this many times, you want long-term success. You have to view this from a self care model. Otherwise exercise sucks and diet sucks. But if you're taking care of yourself through that, they both are great because I'm working on taking care of myself. I'm eating them. I'm nourishing my body. And when you do it that way, you tend to do the right dose and the right dose is the minimal effective dose. That's what people need to realize. The right dose is the minimal effective dose. More than that is the, is the wrong dose. That's when things, I think this is such an important message in particular today, you know, after Thanksgiving, everybody yesterday crushed all kinds of food and probably sat around and watched football. I want to go and make up for it at the gym now. Yeah. And so then the, the reaction to that is the next day or a couple of days later, they get in the gym and it becomes this like punishment and hardcore calorie restriction. And it's like, that's only going to lead you to a failure. Yeah. Let me tell a story around this real quick. If I, I met Doug in the second half of my career as a trainer when I understood this. And thankfully that was the case because I don't think I would have been quite as impactful with Doug had I not. So just to tell the story, Doug came to me, he had a, a recurring back injury, but he'd been working out for years. Yeah. He was no newbie when it came to exercise. I had been working out since he was a teenager. So he comes to me willing and ready to hire me for like five days a week. Like he literally was ready to pay me to train him a lot. Cause he was really serious about getting fit, wanted to build muscle. I don't want my back to her. And I told Doug, and luckily I'm a good sales person. I told him, no, you're only going to work out with me twice a week. Take away clothes. And I know I remember, I remember when I said that to him, he didn't believe me. I had to literally close him on the fact that we're only going to work out twice a week. And then I told him, I said, let's just watch what happens. Let's see what happens. And he trusted me and that two days a week workout for somebody who was already experienced, already been working out, Doug hit PRs in his forties and late forties in deadlifts and squats and bench presses and got the best physique of his entire life. Two days a week, two days a week with that. It was the, it was the right dose of training. And had I not done that, I would have lost Doug. I don't think mine pump would have even started. We wouldn't have created maps, but that was, that's exactly the application. It worked and it worked for him. So pretty crazy. What's up, everybody? Uh, here's the giveaway, the super bundle. Before I tell you how you can enter, we are doing our black Friday sale once a year. It's happening right now 60% off every single maps workout program, including bundles. And you can use the code multiple times. So 60% off everything and anything at maps, fitness products.com, but you have to use the code black friday for the discount. All right. Here's how you can win free access to the super bundle. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode, subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If we choose you as the winner, we'll let you know in the comment section and then boom, you won the super bundle for free. All right. Here comes the show. Let's go, let's get to this, uh, organifi release, bro. This is it, right? Today is, it's like, it's live. It's here. The packaging is all done. Like people can actually go purchase it now. So this, this, so I had the opportunity to put this together with the people of organifi. Um, and they have some really smart people over there that understand, um, you know, how certain compounds affect the body, how to combine certain compounds. They also have a very holistic mindset, which I love because I wanted, you know, loosely a pre workout. Like I wanted something that gave people energy that you could use before workout, before work or creative endeavor, something you could take in the morning, but I didn't want, and I know this, like people, especially people who abuse, uh, pre workouts, they just want more and more stimulants. I said, no, I want something healthy that's going to give people calm focus, the kind that's going to be productive, not the kind where you're kind of, you know, gacked out of your mind. And that's what we did. That's what we put together with, uh, with peak. So I feel like I don't know, I'm more excited about this than even you are, which is crazy to me because how bad you wanted to do this. But I think what's so neat is, and it was you who said this when we all first met, um, you know, when we were, were kind of like laying out what we saw as the vision of the podcast. And one of the statements that you said first out of all of us was that you really wanted to merge health and wellness with performance. And they were, they were separate. There was, there was, you were, you were, if you were a sports performance type of lifter training athlete, it was, there was definitely a, uh, genre of people that, that gravitated towards that. And then if you were the health and wellness type of person, there was a genre of people that grabbed it. And there was so much for each side to learn from each other. And the goal was, could we bridge that gap with this conversation here and teach people that are in, you know, that are doctrine by one of them and explain to them the values on the other side. And this whole idea of peak performance as a supplement and coming from a health and wellness brand is to me such a cool example of something that you envisioned and you wanted eight, nine years ago. Well, obviously I tested it before, but then I didn't use it, uh, until this morning. So you guys know the video I sent you guys this morning. I hit it. I hit a deadlift. I haven't hit in like 10 years. Uh, did five 85. So that's six plates on each side. I pulled it at 43 years old. I haven't done that since I was like in my early thirties, but in the morning saw it to prep for this. First, there's two things. One came out smooth too. I could have hit six. I could have pulled six and I think wisdom is starting to set in a little bit because my ego was like, go for six. And I was like, nah, let's keep it. Let's keep it there. And I didn't hurt myself. Let's keep it there. But the way I've been, uh, what led up to that was I cut the volume of my training. So earlier we talked about minimum effective dose. That is a hard thing to, to follow, especially if you're a veteran or veteran or been training for a long time, even for me, because my training tends to con, it starts here and it's working. And then it slowly moves into more and more and more until I'm overtraining it. It takes me a while to realize I need to scale back, but I scaled back. We, you know, doing kind of the maps, 15 kind of version of type workouts, noticing my strength is going up. I'm feeling good, bumping my calories. I'm feeling great. So last week I pulled five 35 and I'm like, I think I got, I think I got six plates. I think I could do that next week. So I got good sleep, prepared. Then I took three scoops of this bad boy this morning. So I had three scoops of peak power, got on the bar, ripped it, videotaped it. So I have the evidence. So you guys can't say I'm full. I got it in my, I cut it in our texts. I got it on the Instagram. Confirmed. I got it. There was six of those plates. Holding a newspaper in it and make sure you see the date. Yeah. It's like Wolf Boy, you know, it was, it was legit. It's pretty obvious we've aged. So I don't think there's any fool. It was like, oh, that's from 10 years ago, Sal. I still use newspaper is like, that was a thing too. Yeah. The before and after. It's real. This is the date. This is today. I promise. Well, so you did three scoops. So explain again, like with the like caffeine dosage of that. I think it's so cool. So one scoop is a hundred milligrams of caffeine, but then there's other stuff that's in here, Baobab. That's a 300 milligram hit that you took then. Yeah. So that's just, for me, that's a strong hit, right? But Baobab is in there. Guayosa, there's lion's mane, you know, coffee fruit extract, Bacopa, all these things kind of work together to give you this like improvement in performance. And I wanted to dose it so that you could go low dose. So a hundred milligrams of caffeine is low dose. And that's probably appropriate for most people. And then people who are bigger, who use more caffeine or drink more coffee, could go two scoops or three scoops. So I went three scoops and then, you know, I'm going to try three hitter did my thing or whatever. You might need five. The stupid sub of it doesn't work. Just a week. Justin drinks coffee and dog ears. Seven coffees equals one. Yeah. You know what I mean? But anyway, I mean, you know, that's, that's why I did that. I had a problem. I said your quote the beginning Adam, because, you know, half the time, I think people need to realize this on the show, half the time, I mean, we might sound preachy, but we're actually talking to ourselves half the time. Of course. Because it's all shit. We it's all the same stumbling blocks that we continue to hit ourselves. I think that's why I get annoyed when somebody gets defensive about the stuff that we're saying is like, come on, dude. I mean, this is a lot of this is us sharing our own mistakes with people. That was the idea of the show also was to present it in that context, not as a bunch of dudes that think we're smarter than you that are over here telling you how you need to do stuff. It's like, listen, what we do have is a lot of experience, not only training ourselves, but lots of regular ass people. And we made a lot of mistakes along the way. Of doing things the wrong way. We've troubleshooted a lot, you know, back in the day. It's just kind of funny because I wish we wouldn't have experimented so much in the very beginning because I wasn't very good, you know, but you have to kind of work through that. But like all those, like all the challenges and all the stuff that we had to kind of like figure out, that's what we're trying to convey. Like we personally went through or our clients, like there's always like an example. I think one of us can probably pull from. Oh, 100%. So it's Black Friday. Any guesses on the like the most per... I always like to try and guess into the toy that's going to get bought the most or like a product that is like going to crush. Like, you know, what's, what do you see? So I definitely think I believe that, and maybe Doug can fact check me on this. I believe Meta's second version of the Oculus. It looks better. It does look better. It looks cooler. Yeah. Did you guys figure out some things? Did you guys see that the VR headset that one of the Oculus founders made? It's not for production. The one that like will kill you if in the game? They literally made like a VR headset that if you die in the VR universe, it blows your brains out. It kills you in real life. Nobody has that. I know. They did. They made it. I saw that. I mean, I didn't fact check it or anything. No, it's everywhere. Doug, look it up. It's for reals. Like why? Who's going to use that? Here's the other thing. Like who's to say some crazy tyrannical person? It doesn't like like capture somebody and like this is like some sadistic. This is like a horror movie plot. Yeah, like make you play some virtual game and then the stakes are death. What's that? What's that movie? That horror movie with the clown on the bike? And he does the crazy. Come on. There's like a 50. There's like a million of these. Get event horizon. No. God, you guys are terrible. Saw? Saw. Saw. Saw. It sounds like that's a good job, bro. And you are like scary. I know this guy should have been all over that. Hey, sometimes I have off day. No, look, I found it right here. Doug, did you find it? It's the Oculus founder, Paul Merlucky. He created a VR headset that kills you if you die in the game. He claims he's making that. According to this article here. But why? Why would you make this? Just I mean. Okay. That's gotta be a publicity stunt. Come on. Of course. That's of course. Of course, that's a good call. Yeah. They're getting ready to launch the new one. Oh, we have this. That's a good call. Dummies like us talking about it and debating it. Oh, that's son of a bitch. All we're doing is giving them free commercials. Okay, so that's. Not even a mind pump code. Yeah. So that's my prediction. I predict that it will. You know what I find fascinating? Are you guys looking at the usage and all this stuff? So it did get incredible, right? They made all kinds of money off of the original one. Even I'm tempted to buy the second one just because I'm curious on the tech and I want to see the progress. I was so impressed with the first one as far as like the capabilities and how good it looked that I'm very interested to see the evolution of it. But that being said, the behaviors that are around it are pretty interesting. Like it seems that we all have them, right? I think everyone in here has one. I don't. Oh, you're the one that doesn't have one. Doug has one, Justin, you have one, and I have one. And I think that we actually fall in the category of how most people have used them. Yeah, I don't like a lot at the beginning and then never again. Yeah. Yeah, I've used mine for about 10 minutes. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah, like I. That's why I didn't buy one. A bunch of impulse buyers over here. We bought, we bought. Dude, it's cool, but it's just. Adam closed all you guys. It's a party trick. Adam got this. This is what Adam does. Adam likes to buy shit. Impulsively. My actually. But he likes to bring people in with this. Sell it to everybody. I should have got commissioned. Yeah. What you guys didn't know? I made 20% off of all your sales. His was free. I just want to play you guys in ping pong. I'm like, okay, I'm in. I called Oculus a footsie. Here's the deal. Shoot me. I'm going to sell my friends. Did you tell these guys to be like, play with them? We're going to play P. You're going to play Fox. I mean, I was on a kick for a minute that. One minute. Yeah. No, I for maybe a month. Well, mine did get chewed up by my dog. So that is a part of why I don't have mine anymore. Because I have already had a moment where I was like, God damn it. I wish I had those because I wanted to box because I did like that as cardio. But it is interesting that I do think that we're more common than we're not. I don't think a lot. And which flies in the face of this huge investment that Metta is making on the virtual world that we're all going to get plugged in. Because it's such a commitment to step out of reality. In a sense, you're isolating yourself from everything else. In terms of that versus the augmented reality, where it helps to bring that in to what's already around you. Instead of like, I got to be all isolated. I don't hear anybody else. I'm totally fully immersed, which is cool. But again, that's a big commitment in terms of continuously doing that. I think it's a step. I think it's a step on the way to what's going to be the next big thing. But I don't think it is. You know what's interesting also to me is that it comes at a time when it does seem that the message, at least around our space for sure, is getting more and more people. I don't know if you guys know this or not. Remember when I wanted us to do this a couple of years ago, after of course, after I read those books, how I wanted us to start a trend of shutting all of our tech down and everything for a day and make that a thing? There's a lot of companies that are doing this that are starting to a day off of completely of tech or a week off of tech. So it's interesting that we're right when this company is betting on all of us going all in on being plugged in and being in this virtual world. There's also this kind of pushback from a lot of people, especially in our space, of, hey, you needed to attach from these electronics and we're all becoming so dependent on them. There's all, you have to do something that's innovative and groundbreaking and change kind of people's habits. Otherwise, the data shows that the most played games and the most downloaded games are simple basic games. It's the games, those apps that people play on their phone like Candy Crush or Flashy Bird or whatever. Yeah, shit like that, which by the way, that guy, you know that guy, he took it off. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think one of the most played games in the world and profitable games would be games like that. Profitable is different, but downloaded and played? Yeah. Is there a simple basic? Well, yeah. I mean, it's simple, it's basic, it's cheap, right? So you hit a much larger demographic, but- But that tells you, that's a hint is what I'm trying to say. I mean, okay, but you could also make the case for like, I mean, I would love to see the stats on the average gameplayer that plays Modern Warfare and how many hours they put in. I have grown ass friends that are in their 40s that put hours a weekend still of playing that video game with kids. This is what it's like, you have gamers and then you have everybody else. And gamers are not the majority of the population. So, okay, okay. And I like this conversation because this is where I think the VR world and the things like Oculus are going to appeal more too. It's going to appeal more to the gamer than the everyday person. I think augmented reality is going to be the same. I do see a slight bridge to everyday people. I do think that where it's going, and I believe this was one of the leaps that they made in the new Oculus, is making the interaction with like meetings better. So I think that's going to be kind of cool, like where you're going to have these, we have so many companies now that are working from home and that are like, you know, based with employees all over the country that being able to put a, you know, immersive pair of goggles on and actually have this virtual meeting where we feel like we're all in a room together, I do see some value to that. Did you see, I guess it's popular, but I don't even know if this is an option, like within the metaverse, like people will go in there and they'll play old video games. Like in, like, you're playing a video game, old video game in a video game setting. Just like, what is that? Inception. Yeah, inception, that's what I mean. This is getting ridiculous. So I think augmented is going to be the thing that hits the mainstream. And I think it's going to be everyday stuff, like you go online to shop, well, instead of scrolling through Amazon, you'll be able to have something pop up and you'll be able to kind of rotate it and I don't want that and go through this. I think it's going to be stuff like that. It's going to be like our normal habits augmented through utility. Yeah, well, I think Justin just brought that up. I think he makes a really good point that it's less of a commitment to have things like this, right? I think that that'll be a way that we adopt it faster. I was thinking of a comparison, like, because you remember 3D movies, like they've been pushing that so hard, like this is going to be the next wave. Yeah, but nobody likes them. No, like I just think it's novelty. It's novelty, yeah. Because, okay. I like 3D movies when I was a kid. I like the VR, but I look at it as like a party trick. Like if somebody's coming over, it's company, I'm like, oh, check this out. You know, and it's like, you can kind of experience it again through them, but it's just not as consistent. Part of the reason why you don't like it or why I think you don't like it all the time is because it's a bit annoying. You have glasses on there. You can still see out the side. You get a little bit of a headache or dizzy sometimes from it. It's like you got half your vision is on the 3D, half of it's on your peripheral. It's like, but the Oculus is way, that was one of the things I liked about the Oculus was I was impressed with- Are they getting away? They're getting away from the handles is what I heard with the new one. Yeah, I think so. So it's just you're awesome. So my theory is that the reason why the average person doesn't use them a lot is because we have a tendency to want to keep one foot in reality. And it doesn't feel like you're in a reality yet. You still feel like you're in another place in a game. So until they make it where you're like, oh my God, I'm actually in reality, which is going to take a long time, you want to know that you're still in reality. You want to have one foot in reality and one foot playing a game or being that. When you put the glasses on, you're gone, you're in there and people don't like to be in that. Average person is like to be in that for too long. You know what I mean? Like a little bit, but not too long. You know, you have friends over, you don't want to be in this. So that's my theory. That's what my theory is about. Yeah, it's a shitty theory. I think it's good. I mean, I don't think it's- It's because it's not there yet, bro. That's all. It's not there yet. Your theory was it's annoying. Yeah, well it is. I mean, why do you not like the 3D glasses? Okay, why do you not like- Why do you not use the 3D for all- They're annoying. Yeah, they're annoying. You're right. That's exactly what it is. They're just a little annoying. Science magazine. That will be like- Studies show Oculus is annoying. Yeah. This is like people- No, I am surprised though that it's not taking off like I think that they anticipated. Although I think it's cool, but to your point, it's a bit novel and you don't want- So what were the other gifts that you- Like because you brought up Oculus, but were there other ones you- We're still speculating on- So that's the main one that came to mind for me. I was asking you guys if you had any thoughts around other things that are really public. Like sometimes iPhone does really well, but the iPhone has been a bit lackluster. I mean, the- Well, how many new iPhones? Like at what point? They're not that different. What else are we gonna do to it? That's exciting. It's like a little better camera. I was like nothing. Yeah, the camera is cool. I mean- It's cool, but like how much cooler? It's not enough cooler for the average person. If you're in like our space, I think you and you take a lot of video and pictures and stuff like that because you're on so much social media, which is a big chunk of the population, I think it appeals to. But I think then you have like the whole other population like my mom and stuff like that, who's still like on iPhone 6 or something. Yeah, that's my mom. As long as it works, you know what I'm saying? It takes photos, it takes videos. We just got my mom the new iPhone. And she's like- The blue one. She's funny. She's like, Sal, she called me, she goes, Sal, I can unlock my phone by looking at it. I'm like, man, how many phones back were you? That's been in there for a while, mom. I know. My still has a big button on it. Yeah, I don't have to type in my code or like, did yours have a thumbprint? At least on it, like a four-pack. That's my mom. My mom has like a hella old one. I was like, send her something. She's just like, I can't open this. I'm like, why can't you open this? I'm like, you have an iPhone? But she goes, yes, I have an iPhone. I'm like, what iPhone generation are you on right now? I don't know. I think it's 6 or 7. It's time to update, mom. That's funny. Dude, I have a new fear. I have a new fear. What's that? Avalanches. I watched that. Oh my God. You watched it? Yes. Okay, bro. I know exactly what you're trying to bring up. And I just saw another video. I just saw another video on social media. There's a guy filming a mountain. I don't know if I can find it. I gotta say, I gotta, let me see. I'll find it later. But he's filming from far away, bro. The mountain is like way over there. And he's filming. And there's a huge sea of avalanches. And they're all filming from far away. They're like, wow, that's so cool. And it keeps coming. And it keeps coming. Oh my goodness. That's it, right there. Oh, I've seen this. Look, look, look how far away it is. Hey, that's an old video, right? I've seen that video. Is it? Yeah, it's an old video. I've seen that clip. Look, and the guy, you can tell he started zooming out, zooming out. And then you can tell when they realize like, oh, shit, this is going to hit us, dude. Was this attached to the Nepal earthquake? Oh, I have no idea. I've seen this exact video. But look, at this point, you know, that everybody's like, ah, fuck. It's coming for us, bro. Wait a minute, it's still coming. That is, that's crazy. So anyway, there's that docuseries called Avalanche on, is it on Netflix? Yeah, Netflix. What'd you think of it, dude? Dude, I was so freaked out. Okay. So any, so they did three different locations that they kind of documented and filmed from. So for me, it obviously like scary-wise, like being the ones that were actually traversing up to Mount Everest, like that's got to be the absolute worst place to be. Bro, so they're, they're going, first of all, I didn't know this, but just to get to the base camp of Mount Everest is like three days of like, you're in the wilderness hiking. Like you're going, it's a voyage to get there. And some people, that's their whole thing. That's the whole thing. I'm just going to get to base camp. It's so insane just to get there. Like they really did a good job of like highlighting all the challenges it takes for you just to get to that point. And then from there, there's like these, these not caves, but like tunnel, ice tunnels. You got to go through this like glacier. It's basically an ice like frozen waterfall. And the ice is still moving. Masses you got to cover over these sketchy ladders. Yeah, dude. It's like it's still moving very slowly because you can hear it when they're up on them. Don't you hear that? You hear the ice still moving. Doesn't a certain amount of people die on that every year? Yes. Every year. And they leave the bodies up there. Super dangerous. Yeah. Really? Usually they leave the bodies because you can't find them. They died in an avalanche or they fell down a crevasse or they're, we can't find the body. So people find bodies sometimes when they go up to the top. They find, oh, this is the climber for a man. So, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they said it was like a, I don't know, like a year or six months previous to that or something. They had another avalanche or something. Yeah, an earthquake or something. And it like covered that one area. So they couldn't climb. And so it was like, it was closed. And then it just like reopens. So there's all this interest of like in excess of people wanting to be able to now go so they can get to the top of Everest. They're climbing it. And these are all high performance like people. Like people who go to Mount Everest, everyday people, they tend to be like the kind of people they just like to challenge themselves because it's crazy. So there's just one girl and she's telling her story and she's like a graduate from, I don't know, UCLA. And you can tell she's like a high achiever and that's why she wanted to do Mount Everest. Like I got to do this. Yeah. And so she does it and they're climbing the ice waterfall part which is literally like you're climbing mountains of ice and in between you fall down, you're dead. And sometimes they have to cross these crevasses with a ladder. So they put a ladder flat like this and then walk across the ladder and you're looking at it and you're like, that's 100 feet foot fall if you do. So anyway, they're doing that. She's doing that. She's literally walking across the ladder. She's so proud of herself holding on to the ice and hanging and whatever. And then the earthquake hits. Yeah. And she's just about to go up this huge like cliff and the guy just got up and she's like looking up and they hear this rumbling. And then you just all of a sudden see just this cloud just like coming in and just covers them. Boom. And then everything's just chaos dude. Oh my God. It's crazy bro. It scared the shit out of me. One of the camps lost most of their people. Really? Yeah. Where they, one, so base camp didn't lose very many. They were lucky because of where they were positioned and you hear them on the walkie talkies reaching out to the other camps. Right. And he's like, look, we have very minimal like injuries. Nobody's, you know, we made it out. Okay. How are you guys doing? Mass casualties. That's good. We need as much as you can send. As much help as you can send. A lot of bodies coming. A lot of bodies. Is this a new documentary? It's out on Netflix. I think it's new. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, what's crazy is because I don't think they realized too that, well, maybe they did realize the impact of the earthquake, but they thought it was probably better elsewhere. Right. Like it was just localized there at the mountain. But as you go further out, it was just as bad if not worse, especially into the city. Is it Catman New? Yeah. So there was these apartment buildings that they just kept building up and up and up and. No regulation. No regulation. And so there's all these people that just got smashed and trapped and like literally buried alive, dude. It's crazy. How long ago was that? Was it 2000? It wasn't that long ago. Yeah. Look up, it was a 7.8. Like 10 years ago or something. Was it the 7.8 earthquake in Nepal? You can look that up. Or just look up Avalanche. Did you, speaking of documentaries, did you guys see Orgasm Inca? Gosh, damn it. I was going to watch it. You have to watch it. So this is about, I read the thing. This is like a cult, right? It's in our space. Of course. It's in the health and wellness space. Roll my eyes because of course. Well, because it too. Like you see how like, what's it mean? Gwyneth Paltrow. And like there's all these like celebrities that we're promoting. This lady basically, she had a TED talk. She had a TED talk that went viral. All right. So what's it about? Tell me what happened in this. So it is literally, so the theory is that, and you've definitely heard this theory before in our space that, you know, we are these pleasure monkeys. And like that the ultimate way to live a fulfilled life is to be in pursuit of pleasure. And that you should continue to like always pursue that, right? And in all aspects of life. In order to really connect with other people. So basically you need to be pleasure and give pleasure with like everybody you interact with. So it really started off where she attracted a lot of these people that, you know, struggle with having an orgasm or touch with other people. Okay. So that's like sexual abuse or something. Well, this is why it turned into a cult was because it literally changed hundreds, thousands of people's lives. People that really struggle with human connection and touch. People that really struggled with having their own orgasm or giving an orgasm to somebody else. And she really got these people to let their guards down and become comfortable with touching other people. And even being in these environments, that she would cultivate around strangers to be very comfortable with their sexuality. Well, it started out mainly a women empowerment thing. Right. So it was like very much because it would be immediately creepy. If, if like, it was a dude and also like that, that the guy needs to get the orgasm, you know, so they've centered it all around like women getting orgasm and it became a demonstration thing at a certain point at these. So it's like a group of people. Group of people. I'm going to give this girl an orgasm. They teach a technique and try to use like scientific principles behind it and talk about all their endings. And then certain technique for like 15 minutes, they basically, basically stroke them off in front of everybody. So it was like, they're like, I was so vulnerable. And, you know, every part of me was out there. It felt awkward, but you know, that's weird. And then they're just, if they have this huge orgasm and then it literally just becomes they just get swept into this entire like doctrine that she just created. And then they, they just like start recruiting people. And it just keeps growing and growing, getting more popular amongst celebrities start to be like, wow, like there's something here. Like all these people are experiencing these, this crazy like, like sexual health. Justin had a really important point that I missed was that you're right that they really centered it around like the woman's empowerment movement. And so so many people like the Gwyneth Paltrow and stuff piggyback off of that. Like, yes, this is like strong women. Women are control of their sexuality, can control of their orgasms, take what they want. Like, you know, you, you are, you are the dominant force in this. Like, and so they really, she really. You're the dominant force. So masturbate while my friends and I walk. This is all about you. But I mean, she, I mean, so many people were, the crazy part was how much she got away with and that she's still out. So was it, was it just that they turned into like just. No, so it, okay. So it just kind of escalated and escalated and escalated to a point where like, so it became the women empowerment thing. And then, and then she started to tell her story. So you start to kind of piece together. And I don't know how much of her backstory is true, what she made up or what she didn't. But like basically, I think she was like molested or had some kind of like bad encounter growing up. And she didn't want to be a victim. And so this is another like empowering part of her story that's like, I'm going to regain the reins and take control of this. And like, and this is how. Did she take people's money? Like did she rip people off? Oh, it charged a lot of money for these sessions. So what ended up happening? Okay, so imagine this, right? A place where we're giving all these women orgasms, the amount of men that would be attracted to come to these things. So they would charge the men like a fucking crazy premium to have access to these groups. A lot of women either got free or a discount to be in there because the ratio was like 8, you know. Well, it started out women and then it quickly became old men. Weird how that happened. It's strange. And the way they would balance it out is they would bring, they would recruit other women for either free or for a discounted price. And now she's in the predicament, she doesn't have enough women, right, to be able to pair off because they set the pair them off because one has to do the diddlin. Well, the other one, you know, has the technique. And so basically it got to the point where the staff that first of all got so swept into her doctrine, like now believe in her and her message and all this stuff, now they have to like all of a sudden, you know, provide the diddling and it became more than that. And it became like sex was a part of it. She's like a madam? Yes, it literally became that. And she ended up being where they would, and like Justin's saying they had like these people that were early adopters that were completely drank the Kool-Aid, she would now start to promote them, right? And they would become like, and then she would act like a priesthood. So she started and started. Yeah, exactly. They're like priests. Yeah. So she wrapped in a cult doctrine and she pulled in from other religions and started to literally like, yeah, hodgepodge peace, all these things together that justified like sexual practices. She was using like passages from the Bible, Buddha, she was using, she would use all types of religions and she would mesh it together to promote her message. Damn. And people just gobbled up. Literally, sex cool. Here's the thing, while you gotta watch this, because it still exists. It's one of those documentaries where it leaves you hanging like she got away, she's traveling the world somewhere and cashed out. Like I think she sold the company, sold her shares, got a bunch of money from it, is on the run and out. And then the company has now rebranded as OM. So OM. Yeah, I think something OM. I can't remember. Meditation. Meditation. Look up more guys. Orgasm meditation. Yeah, they like smash it together. Yeah, orgasm meditation. And that was the other thing too, right? It's in San Francisco, this all started. Yeah. So you got all these tech people that are high into like, very much so attracted that female empowerment movement, the hippie kind of culture. All the guys that went over exactly what you think they looked like. Yeah, you do. Yeah, but I'm still like Katrina and I are watching together. And this guy's talking about like, how much it changed. Like, I'm like, his original. I've never had sex before. Yeah, his original interview was like, you know, he's this dude, this tech dude who like, hasn't had sex really. And you know, it's like no experience. And then he's like, then like, you see him like, progress in the show. He's like, Oh my god, I thought it was the greatest thing ever. Like, he was so happy about this cult. He's like, I found a gold mine down here with like, 40 people. It changed my life. He's like, yeah bro, you just fucked like, 30 girls in the last six months. He hit the lottery pal. Yeah. And they're being encouraged to experiment with you inside this place. I mean, he moved, they moved into this. Like, he found a hack. Yeah, he did find a hack. Well, it cost like 30,000 dollars a year or something like that. In his video game, he's like, oh dude. Yeah, that's right. He had to pay a shit little money for it. Yes. So they all, they got the money. Is it, did you find it? One taste, that's it. Yeah, one taste. Yeah, one taste. And now it's the Institute of Ohm, O-M. Yes. And the unconditional freedom project. Yes. Unconditional freedom. Oh, that sounds great. Yes. Dude, but like, okay. So there's other part of it. Like, it got dark though. I mean, like, to go even further, they, she was like promoting rape. Like, what? Yeah, so that was a crazy turning point. At one point, she let out your beast. She used, yeah, she used the, she used the angle of what her being molested as a child to say that they, that never let a man take your power away. You control your sexuality no matter what, even if it's being physically taken from you. So no more of this being raped and then claiming to be a victim from that. You own that. You own that. You take control of that. Let your inner beast come out. Yeah, bro. That's what, that's where it took a hard turn. Oh man, that felt so bad. When you had situations like that, there's a girl that was a, that was a, I believe a victim of rape. And then she tried to, Poor girl. She tried to adopt this message. And then they were like, And she's the forcing of the house. Her boyfriend and her boyfriend was abusive. And they were like encouraging him to be abusive. Oh my God. That's terrible. That's how it all started to unfold. That's terrible. Was that she was starting to push all these other agendas on these. You know what's funny? I almost feel like you're guaranteed to be in a cult if sex is evolved. Like if you're asking, if you don't know, am I in a cult? Well, it just starts with the diddling. You know what I told Katrina this last night. I said, you know, I also think this also highlights how interesting creatures we are, that we have, we all have this internal desire for some sort of higher power spirituality. And when, and it's funny because I feel like the people that are most susceptible to these crazy weird cults are actually the biggest deniers of religion and God. Like they're like, they're always the people that like totally refused like religion or God or anything like that. Or like, and they're like, oh, anti that or they're atheists or agnostic. But then they, something else becomes a religion. Something else becomes it. And then they fall for all the same shit. It's the same stuff that you see in some of these crazy major religions. You know, you know what's crazy is that old wisdom, okay, that thousands of your old wisdom that's found in multiple old religions. So that the world's most practiced religions that have existed for thousands of years, they all say, if you don't worship God, you end up worshiping power or pleasure or I think it's money or honor. I think are the main ones. And that's exactly what happens. Like you people worship drugs or they worship climbing the ladder at business or chasing money or maybe just trying to sleep around or, you know, or they find some weird cult religion that says the way to spirit, you know, spiritual enlightenment is to just have as many orgasms as possible or whatever, right? Yeah, yeah. It's really wild to me. It is innate. I think it is innate in us to have to have that because we're driven by hierarchies. We're driven by decisions. Every day we make decisions and whatever decision you made was obviously better than the alternatives. So ultimately, if you follow that long enough, there's a top value. And if you don't consciously make that top value something good, it's going to become something else. And you'll be ruled by it. I mean, I think that's- It'll become your God. I think that's the positive and the power of going after something that is unrealistic, unattainable, like a God-like figure because they're perfect in every aspect. And so putting that as your highest value, it'll be a forever journey for you. You'll never have the perfect life. You'll never be exactly like Jesus. You'll never be that person. So the pursuit of it for the whole rest of your life is what leads to this fulfilling type of life versus you could reach the top of the corporate ladder. You could reach ultimate as much sex and orgasms as you candidate. Like all those things- Yeah, what happens when you get there? All those things do eventually cap out. And then what happens when you do cap out? Like are you still fulfilled and what happens as far as your pursuit afterwards if you've built most of your worth around that? Yeah, and the religions will tell you that the world religions will say we have a yearning for God. And if you try to fill that with something else, it's like drinking seawater to quench your thirst. You'll need more and more and more and more and it becomes addictive. And this is what they say, but it seems to be true. It really does seem to be true. So anyway, really interesting. We're supposed to mention SleepMe. I want to tell you guys this really interesting. Did your wives body temperatures change dramatically or dramatically changed their preference for hot or cold in the house when they were pregnant? Let's always say you're pregnant. I was like, I'm like, it's funny you're bringing this up, bro. Your wife is pregnant. You do know that's like crazy. Bro, it's like way dramatic. So she's constantly hot. My favorite- We were almost on the same level. We were. So that was actually one of the best things. American Trains and I have been together 12 years, had a kid now for three. So, and the temperature thing has been one of the, you know, the big wedges in the relationship on how hot to keep it or how cold to keep the house. And it's been one of those things that she could just never figure, like just not understand me until she got pregnant. When she got pregnant, she literally felt like I felt where it was she was so hot all the time. And I remember looking at her being like, okay, you see how you feel right now? I feel exactly how you feel all the fucking time. That's how I run like that. Did she change her ruler temperature? Yeah, yeah. She didn't use heat at all during the pregnancy. She does now, right? So she's, and it went back, right? So it was only during the time that she was pregnant that that happened. Because you guys were complete opposite. You were like freezing and she was- She runs hers right now at 80 and I run mine at 55. Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. But when she was pregnant, she brought it down to zero. She brought it down, yeah, with me or wouldn't run at all. Wow, that's wild. Yeah, yeah. You know, speaking of them, we actually, they're the last ones for me to wrap up for the Utah play. So when this goes live, most of, I'm not going to knock on wood, most of the Utah property should be done. I believe we get the last bit of our theater chairs this week. I know Justin just ordered some cool decor for the theater. I know PRX is en route to land there this week. I have contributed zero to the decor. And I think that was by design. I'm pretty sure. You're part of like the deciding, the color of the counter. Actually, I had the blue kitchen as you. Everybody hates the blue kitchen. We'll see it. Do they really? I don't know. I haven't seen how it turned out yet though. I had input on the stonework. That was about it. Yeah. Everything else is stonework. I don't trust my input. You guys have better input than I do. Um, so yeah, so it's, it's pretty much close to being done. So I'm hoping probably the next time that we record a podcast, I'll be giving a link to people. I've had a lot of DMs around people asking. Let's go. When the house will be ready. Most of everything will be there pretty quick. The last things that I'm waiting on, besides the ruler thing I should have are the sleep me. There, it drives me crazy that they changed the name. Sleep me will be there by that, uh, by that time. The one thing that may take a little longer. I'll get the coal plunge in time. The sauna will be the one that will be the, the sauna. This, the, and the jacuzzi will be the two that might be a little late. So that's gonna be rad. You know, I'm excited. Sleep me, bro. What's up everybody? This is just a reminder. Black Fridays right now, 60% off. All maps, workout programs, including bundles. 60% off across the board. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and use the code Black Friday for the discount. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Amanda from Texas. Amanda, how can we help you? Hey there guys, uh, from Texas. Nice to meet you guys. You guys are amazing. Thank you. Uh, I'm listening to you guys. So, uh, just to my question real quick, um, I, I'm a bodybuilder since 2018 and, uh, been doing bodybuilding for so long, but, uh, I recently finished one of my last competitions in September 8th and I noticed that I started losing muscle. I didn't like the feeling of losing strength. So I kind of want to close that chapter and go to powerlifting. What do you guys recommend right now? I just finished y'all's, uh, symmetry. I loved it. I'm doing right now the five by fives, but what do you think I should do next? I'm thinking of competing for powerlifting in the summer, maybe June, July, uh, but what do you guys recommend transitioning from bodybuilder to power lift and, uh, what programs you recommend? Yeah. Are you familiar with our programs? Uh, very much. Yes. Me and my partner, uh, when we can, we try to get it, uh, when you guys have your discounts, try to get your, um, programs. We have a symmetry. We've done pretty much anabolic, everything like that. And, uh, because of you guys, we transitioned to, uh, trainers, actually, and, uh, clients love all your work too. We try to help them and, um, because of you guys, we're, we're doing great things on ourselves and clients and people out there. Well, because, because she's coming from bodybuilding, I would actually, the, the obvious answer is power lift, but I actually would run performance first just because of your, your, your bodybuilding background. I think performance will serve you, uh, better first because we have time too, right? So we have time for powerlifting and you said it's spring. Is that what we're thinking? So what you said? Uh, I'm getting summertime, uh, give me a little bit. Oh yeah. You got plenty of time. So I would, I would run performance first and then transition into power. Yeah. So that's actually excellent advice because what that'll do is that'll protect you from the issues that can arise that almost always arise when somebody trains, uh, powerlifting for a long time, right? Which is you're not doing a lot of lateral movements. There's no rotation. And although you get stronger, you tend to notice aches and pains and bodybuilding training doesn't necessarily address that very well. Now performance will. And so what'll happen is you'll do performance, then you'll get into powerlift and at the end of powerlift, you're going to be much stronger and feel much better than had you not done performance to begin with. So I think that's phenomenal. Yeah. I like that advice mainly because to like, you're going to train these, these full body movements and it's very much more movement based. So coming from bodybuilding to switching over to, uh, powerlift, you're really going to have to understand how, uh, to generate more force and to be able to get your body synchronized. So it's, it's not segmented because that's one thing, especially with deadlifts. I see that a lot with bodybuilders kind of transitioning over. It's a bit tough with that. So yeah, I really like that. Yeah. That's also a great point. So Justin, basically making the point that the switch from bodybuilding to powerlifting is it's like you're switching from feeling the muscle to perfecting the movement. And mass performance is a great segue to powerlift. It really trains you to be movement focused and not muscle focused. Now, what can you expect from training this way? You're going to build muscle. You're going to build muscle, you're going to get stronger, especially if you combine it with a diet where you're feeding your body, where you're eating in a, in a, in a little bit of a surplus. Uh, you're, you're letting yourself eat those carbs, your protein intake is high. Um, and I look, I think that training for strength usually is a much better pursuit, especially for women, because women tend to, more often than men, tend to fall into the trap of trying to be lean all the time and tend to be a little afraid of a scale changing or whatever. And focusing on strength tends to be very healthy. And, and, and there's a lot of strength that women tend to, um, kind of have untapped without realizing. And then when they switch that mentality and train for strength, it's like, Oh my gosh, I feel amazing. I have all this energy. My libido is up. My metabolism is up. I'm building great curves. I've got my butt is building. Everything's kind of coming together. So I think this is a great transition. It's a much healthier one than the one you, you came from, where you were putting your, you know, presenting yourself on stage. Did you compete in bikini bodybuilding physique? Which one did you do? I did a bikini. I started since 2018, but I'm ready to let that go. I noticed since I'm getting older, I'm 35. So I feel like I feel a little weaker and I don't like that feeling. So I kind of want to close that chapter and just move on to something different, especially since us women are, are prone to osteoporosis and being in a, in a strict diet plan, reducing calories up to like, even a thousand two, a thousand four. I know it's not good for me. So I'm ready to transition out of that and just live heavy. You know, be smart, eat smart. And right now I'm, I'm, I'm eating when I'm hungry. So I'm eating protein. I'm eating my veggies, but I'm having carbs in every meal because I want to be able to lift and grow that strength as well. Yeah, you're going to love it. I, you know, I'd love for you to actually just circle back with us after you go through this, because I think you're a perfect person to hear from that's been bodybuilding training and dieting that way for so long. Experiences performance and then goes into powerlifts. I think it's going to be a really cool story to hear after you've gone through that. Yeah. You know what's interesting too, Amanda, that I've experienced with clients like you, is that there's this untapped strength that wants to surface. But what's prevented it from really coming out is the restrictive dieting, the high volume training, the tons of cardio, especially when you're getting ready for a show. So it's like, it's, it's like this, like under the surface is all the strength that wants to just come out. And then when you really train yourself properly and feed yourself, because you've got the training background, because you've been training for so long, it explodes out of your body and it's just, it's going to blow your mind. You're really going to love the way it feels. And in my experience, women that train when they make this transition, they almost never want to go back. And if they do, they go back and get on stage and it's very different. They've got more muscle, faster metabolism. They feel much healthier. So this would be a great experience. You said you were a trainer. Do you have MAPS Prime and Prime Pro? Yes, actually, we've, we've helped a lot of clients with that. And especially on myself, I have a lot of what we notice on clients on myself is just like, I get a stress right here in my upper body, my shoulders and lower back pain. So we do everything with the Prime Pro. And what was the other one that you have? Prime. Prime. Yes, we use both. And that helps, that helps us a lot in the clients. Marty Sol is the one who came, I think, a couple of weeks ago with you guys too. So, you know, everything works with that. And thank you for that. Yeah, good deal. All right. So we're going to send you performance. But then after that, power lift will be, I think, ideal. So I see that you got your Christmas deal. I was just going to say, I actually put it up on Halloween. But I love it. Wow. You're one of those. I'm in one of those people. I'm an early person too. Not that early. Like, we'll go up this week. So that's funny. That's it. Mariah Carey is happy with you. In two weeks is going to be Thanksgiving. And by the time we know it, Christmas is around the corner. So I like to enjoy it. But real quick back to the question. So you recommend right now, finishing symmetry and then going to performance. Yes. And then after performance, what do you guys recommend after that? Power lift. Power lift. Power lift. Okay. That's when you're going to, that's where, that's where you're going to, first of all, you're going to see strength gains with, you're going to see strength gains with power, with performance for sure. But then when you get to power lift. And by the way, that would be the, like the most perfect cycle I would write. Like let's say you go on this kick of like getting into power lifting meets and you want to power lift for the next year or two, running you through perform it or excuse me, symmetry performance and then power lift. Symmetry, performance, power lift, symmetry, performance, power lift would be a great cycle to kind of run you through to get you ready every time for a meet. Just it would, it'll dress everything I would be concerned about as a coach. If we're just mainly focused on power lifting to make sure that you stay, keep those joints nice and healthy and mobile. Sounds good guys. Thank you so much for you. I knew I was stuck. I didn't know who to call and I, I was like, let me message and email mine pump and you guys are awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for calling in. You're welcome. Thank you. Thanks. It's got to be one of my favorite people to train is, is women who go from the, like the dieting. I have to look a particular way mentality. I've been doing this for a long time. Then you get them to switch to training for strength. Yeah. And it blows their mind every single time. Well, they're also, yeah, they're one of my favorite clients to train too. Also because she's already proven she has incredible discipline. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I mean. Yeah. If you, if you competed on stage, you've already, you've already been able to be disciplined with a diet, be disciplined with a training. So if I can just get you to change the focus a little bit now, like in the mobility direction or the power of the totally direction, they see incredible. That's why I wanted to hear back from her. I'd love to hear her experience over the next three to six months. I bet it blows her mind. Our next caller is Dray from Michigan. Dray, what's happening, man? How can we help you? What's going on guys? What up? What's up? What's up, man? Where'd I go? Alrighty guys, man. Hey, I guess one of them, man. Thanks for everything that you guys do. Man, I've been listening to the podcast for shit, man. About three, four months now. My girlfriend actually put me on to you guys because she's into fitness as well. So kind of a fitness couple here. And yeah, I've been a little nervous now. Yeah, apparently. She's a keeper, bro. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. She's actually not working out right now. So yeah, man. I guess really my question is for the last four months, and I've been diving and listening to all of you guys' podcast. And since then, I've personally gotten more dedicated or more serious with the fitness goal. During this, give me a little bit of background for me. During the whole COVID-19 pandemic, all that crap, I actually took that time and decided to actually go crazy in the gym. So I'm not sure we saw those pictures I sent you. The left one is when I first started right before or right during the COVID and the right is a year apart. I've been training and I guess my first goal was to gain mobility and actually lose a little bit of weight there. Now that I've done both those things here, my mobility has definitely increased. I can lose my squats. I can add to grass with great form and posture. Now I want to train more so in the, like an athlete, if you will, with this social power, but I'm nervous because I'm always wanting to work out by myself. I want to train like that, but I don't want to hurt myself. You know what I mean? So I guess any tips or tricks you guys have for me? Yeah, Jordan, did you, when you went through this process, did you start or go through any of our programs yet or have you not used one of our programs yet? Man, I haven't used one of you guys' programs yet. My girl did get, I think it's Maps apps or something like that. I had to train and get that fat off before I did anything with apps. I didn't touch the apps at all, man. So I think the perfect place for you to start is actually our Maps symmetry program and then to work into performance. So the combination of those, the two of those would be really, really good for you. So I'll have Doug send symmetry over to you and then we have a program that is like specific to exactly what you want to do, which is Maps performance, which will lay the foundation. But the idea that, and I don't know how old are you because I'm somebody who is an athlete at heart and I'm also very scared to go train, even with my knowledge to go jump in the gym and start doing explosive movements. How old are you? Yeah, so I'm 36. Be 37 here in March. Yeah, man. And yeah, 36. So yeah, you want to lay a solid foundation first. That's Maps symmetry for you and then transition into performance. That's literally like the next six months of what training should look like for you and follow the program to a T. Yeah, the key, really the key to preventing injury is to scale back. So the exercises should be exercises and movements that you can perform comfortably, that you can perform with good technique and good form. And then when you feel like you master those techniques, then you incrementally advance yourself. So you always want to train below your threshold, train, master that, and then move up a little bit. So you're always kind of moving yourself up slowly. And if you do it that way, your risk of injury is quite low. When people hurt themselves is when they push themselves to their threshold as if they're in competition in the gym. Now there's nothing necessarily wrong with doing that, but the risk of injury goes up quite a bit. When you're testing your capacity, that's when the risk of injury goes up because you're pushing your body to the limit. So if you train below that, whatever that may be, and really master that level to the point where you're like, okay, I can move up a little bit in either tension or in speed or in depth or whatever. If I can progress myself just a bit, but still feel quite comfortable, that'll keep you pretty safe. And that'll progress you. That'll progress you at a really good pace. Yeah, well, you already have the right idea coming back in and realizing that just jumping back into athletics is probably not going to do you all that great. There's no real light way to just jump into whatever you're doing. I don't know, did you play any sports preceding this? Oh yeah, man. So all throughout grade school, I was kind of a two-athlete kind of guy, so basketball, football, and running a little football. My football coach would always make me run a track. So I was forced into that, you know what I mean, but really enjoyed it, man, growing up. And I think what scares me about really training explosively is because I have this, you guys heard it countless times, but that extra gear with the whole, I can go the extra mile, you know what I mean? Especially when I first started my journey, I was really heavy into, I'll pop on the CT Fletcher, audio, and just try to go crazy, you know what I mean? In a sense, so. Yeah, this is a typical athlete's stuff. I'm happy you're coming in with that type of mentality because to lay down the groundwork, to go through and see where you're at right now, currently your body, the state and the shape it's in, like your joints, the functionality, the strength. So you can address all that in symmetry. It's going to reveal itself. You can build strength, support, and stability there, and then move your way back in and sort of climb that ladder back to peak performance, which is the smart way to do it. Yeah, and you can even, once a week, go out to the field or the court. Don't play against other people because that's going to be too tempting for you to push your intensity. But do drills and stuff on your own, light drills, easy drills on your own, just to get your body familiar to moving like you did before. So you go out in 30 minutes, 60 minutes of some of the drills you remember doing when you were in the track or when you played basketball or football and just do them at like 60, 70% intensity. And so literally, you're going to go out there and feel like, well, I could definitely push myself harder. That's okay, that's where you want to start and get your body refamiliar with moving in that particular way. In a perfect world, he would actually combine that when he gets into performance, right, when you get into the mobility days. That's right, the skills training. So if I was actually coaching and training you, I'd have you run through symmetry, literally how we laid it out, that's the program we're going to send to you, right? So we're going to send you that one for free, go through symmetry, then after that, you're going to get into maps performance. When you go through performance, every other day you do these mobility days. And so it's basically like dynamic stretching in a perfect world. I would have you either go down to the local field or go over to the basketball court, whichever one you wanted to do. You'd do those mobility drills and then you would do exactly what Sal's doing, do some of your favorite drills that you do in basketball or football and kind of ease your way in. The combination of that strength training program with that mobility with like light drills would be the perfect way to get you in back into like full speed sport by like, you know, middle, middle of the summer next year. That's right, yep. Okay, I'm not sure if you guys got one more time for another question. I just want to throw some of my numbers to you as far as body fat percentage. I'm at a 15.1% body fat, muscle mass, 145.5, body water, 62.2% lean body, 154.9 pounds, bone mass, 9.4, protein, 17.5, visceral fat, 10, BMR is 18, 88, metabolic age, Reece 34. Okay, that's all good. Yeah, you're in good place. Yeah, that's all fine. 15% body fat's a good athletic body fat. You know, you can get a little lean or two. You can even get a little heavier. You're going to be okay. Right around that 15% is a good body fat percentage for most athletes. You know, some people get down as low as 10, but that depends on the individual, but you're in a good place. You are, and honestly, when you start getting into this program, because it's going to be so different from probably how you train. You'll build muscle. Yeah, you're going to build muscle. You'll naturally lean out. So however you're eating diet-wise right now, I'd probably keep it that way unless you're really trying to cut right now. I wouldn't want you cutting hard while we're doing performance-type stuff. I want you fed, but you don't. Yeah. Yeah, are you fed? I didn't expect y'all. I actually wanted to build a little bit, you know, so I was looking to add calories. Okay, yeah, you're good. You're good. Yeah, add calories. That's, I would rather, I would rather, that's the only thing, I wouldn't want you in a cut right now. I would say, if we're trying to get back into athletic shape, and I'm going to put you on a program like this, I'd rather you be in a slight bulk than actually, you know, in any sort of a cut whatsoever. Yeah, and what'll happen, Dre, is your weight won't change that much, but your body composition probably will. So your weight might change a pound or two on the scale, but you'll drop like a couple percent body fat and gain a few pounds a month. By the way, that's how you know you're doing a perfect job. But this is if you're able to increase calories, say 300 to 500 calories a day, and you not gain weight, and you're following the program, then we have a pretty, I mean, that means we're probably putting on muscle and leaning out at the same time. And if you feel good and feel fed at that, that means you've hit it perfect. Yep. Awesome, man. Appreciate it. Cool. Thanks for calling in, Dre. Awesome, man. Thanks, thanks. All right, man. Good luck. No problem. Yeah, it's, you know what the challenge, the biggest challenge with that is always ego, because... Exactly. Yeah, well, I mean, even look, I, you know, I've done non-conventional sports, but even in the gym, you'll work out, or I'll work out, and I'll be like, okay, I know I've got to keep my intensity. At this level, I haven't done this particular exercise or pushed myself this way. But then you feel good. You do it, you're like, oh, I feel good. And that, that inner, you know, challenge comes out. You're like, let me push it a little further. So that's the big challenge is ego, because he could go out and do drills and be like, oh my God, I feel like my old self. Let me go play a pickup game. Just jump in the game yet. Yeah, that's right. I mean, I love the fact that he's only been listening for a few months and he's already has the right mindset. Totally. I mean, because I think one of the hardest things to convince athletes is to even go through that process or even to become aware that, hey, I probably- There's another way you should do this. Yeah, I have a feeling I shouldn't just go right back into my sport. So the fact that he's already smart enough and aware of that, you know, I just hope he follows the program to it to you. If he does, I think he's going to feel amazing by summertime, I'm sure. Yeah, you really, your body remember, when you don't do a movement for a long time, your last memory of how you did it was with a different body. So you try to apply that to the new body. That's when problems happen. I learned that lesson a few times. Our next caller is Rebecca from New York. Hi, Rebecca. How can we help you? Hi, guys. So I've been listening to your podcast. I'm a recent listener and I appreciate everything you're doing. And my question is this with some context. I am a former professional Latin dancer. I am now a PT and I'm trying to serve the Latin dance community. And one of your recent podcasts, one of you guys said, if you're training for your sport, right, maybe you have to sacrifice a little bit of your aesthetic. If you're training for your aesthetic, maybe you sacrifice a little bit of your performance. So my question is as a dancer, that's like not really possible. The aesthetic and the performance kind of have to marry each other. So I'm wondering if there's a way you guys recommend training so that these dancers are not only strong, but also have the aesthetic that they want to achieve. Yeah. Well, okay. So I'm so glad you brought that episode up because there's a little bit of confusion around that. When we talk about sacrificing performance for aesthetics or vice versa, we're talking about the extremes. That's right. And what you're talking about is a sport that requires both. You want to have performance. You also want to look good. And with dancing, there is an element of improved performance when you're also leaner. When you also have some of the aesthetics, right? Because you could train as a dancer to just get maximally strong but get a little bit too thick and heavy, which will also impede on your performance in dancing as well. So in your particular case, I would focus on the performance and then I would eat healthy. And the aesthetics will follow with that. When we talk about what we talked about, we're talking about people who are so extreme in their pursuit. Like if you want to be like a, the strongest power lifter, you're not going to be shredded, right? Or if you want to be on stage as a bodybuilder at 2% body fat, well, you're not going to be the strongest you're going to be, and you're not going to have the health that you want. So, but in your particular case, when it comes to a sport like dancing where the visual and the performance are both important, it's not a bad balance. It's actually not a bad balance at all. So I would focus just on the performance, eat healthy, and you'll, and you experience this as a competitor yourself. Like if your diet was good and you were just practicing your movements and dancing quite a bit, you looked the part, right? It wasn't like you had to sit there and really focus on, you know, getting shredded or anything like that. Like let's say a physique competitor, what it was really about keeping the balance between the two. So that's kind of, that's kind of the idea. How much, how much dancing are we, are we talking about like as far as practice? How often? So I don't, I don't do this anymore, but I serve clients to do, I mean, they're nonstop. They're dancing or performing or teaching every weekend, rehearsing every night. So it's pretty intense in terms of how much they're doing. And I'm trying to come in with the education on rest, hydration, nutrition, all that stuff, on top of getting away from the passive stretching and moving more towards strength training. You know, the other thing to consider is at a very high level of competition in dancing, you are going to sacrifice a little bit of health in the sense of maybe joint health. Like I'm sure at the highest level of competition, most dancers probably have issues with their feet or their ankles or their knees or, you know, so at that level, there is a bit of a trade-off because you're trying to push yourself to be the best in the world. Now, if you're working with somebody that's kind of doing this as a hobby and, you know, they like doing it, it's fun, they do it on the weekend, then I wouldn't sacrifice one or the other. But are you talking about high, super high level competitors? Yeah, I'm talking about people who travel, perform internationally. They are, this is their job, they're high-level performers, athletes. So I've trained a handful of clients like this and, you know, what I found as a coach was one of the most challenging things was actually getting them out of like poor eating habits. So because they do have to have like a lean physique, they restrict a lot of food and then they train in a dance a ton. And so they keep their weight in check but then they don't have like the tightest, most aesthetic physique they could have because of the way they diet. They don't eat enough protein intake, they go for maybe off-season, not eating the best and then they go also and they cut and they're eating celery sticks all day long and they're eating low, low calorie just to keep the body fat down. So a lot of my conversation was educating them on the importance of a high-protein diet. They really didn't need that much strength training. I was only strength training them like one time a week full- Because of all the dancing. Because they're dancing so much but really trying to teach them how to feed the body properly and that they could and they can eat. So that was my experience at least. I mean they tend to have that I can't weigh, I can't be this much and so when they're in season dancing they would like restrict the calories but then I'd look at the diet and it's like a salad and celery and all these like low calorie, low nutrient foods. And then they're doing all this and then they're pushing their bodies at extreme levels of dancing. And so teaching them how to feed their body properly, how to strength train one time a week so that we can have some muscle mass on us and have a good metabolism. But then again still focusing on their sport because their sport is dancing. To me that's kind of the balance or the dance that you have to do as a coach is how do I keep them fed properly and then teach them and educate them the importance of strength training like one time a week so they can perform at optimal levels for their dance. Yeah the other thing too is you're training in a very rare demographic. These are high level, I mean so you're training high level competitors. Your job as a trainer or a coach is number one to prevent injury. It's not to improve their performance. You want to just manage and make sure that they don't hurt themselves. So a lot of their exercise is going to be kind of correctional exercise. That's going to be the majority of it. And if you do any strength training it's going to be very minimal and basic because of the amount of volume that they're already doing with the amount of training that they're doing. Like if you throw too much strength training on top of what they're doing then you really run the risk of increasing the risk of injury. Did you listen to the episode that we did with Corey Schlesinger the NBA strength conditioning coach? No. You should listen to that episode. That would be very valuable. It's a really good episode and the way I want you to listen to it is to think as his NBA athletes like your dance athletes like in season. And he does a lot of what's called microdose training with his athletes in season because obviously basketball is the highest priority in their sport while they're in season so like your dancers while they're in season that's of the highest priority. And so the way he strength trains them is in these micro sessions. Very, very short couple exercises. You know what would be good for this is MAPS 15. Yeah, it's thinking the same thing. MAPS 15 would be perfect. Spreading the load out in the stimulus so that way they're still getting those kind of strength exercises but it's not too much in terms of volume intensity because they already have all that excess of movement and activity that they're working on performance-wise so that would just help to aid into strengthening, supporting their joints. Yeah, it's literally 15 minutes a day of strength training and I think that would probably just based off of the feedback that we get from top-level strength coaches who are training athletes in season this is they say the best approach and I agree with them. I think... That's during the season. What about when there's that off season or can they do a little bit more strength training like days a week? That's right, that's right. Especially if you can bring down a bit of the dancing. There you go. Yeah, like take some of that volume down you can focus on more strength training. I know it sounds impossible but that would be ideal. But I mean that's again that's the dance that you have to do as a coach is if they're doing hours of dancing every single day I can't be... Yeah, a lot of cardio and then some tricks. So here's the thing, they have to be strong enough as the guy and the girl to do tricks as well because they're lifting each other they're basing and supporting they have to fly. So they're like, I want to be stronger but then also there's so much cardio in this world of Latin dancing too. Yeah, well here's... Okay, so I mean a lot of the strength based movements that are done in sports are highly technical. Like for example, like I could lift 200 pounds over my head. Okay, but if you give me a 105 pound dancer and tell me to lift her the way that a dancer supposed to I'm probably going to fail because there's so much technique that's involved. So then practicing these lifts and their dancing is really going to maintain that. As far as adding more strength in season it's going to be these micro dose workouts. You're not going to do an hour of strength training with them. Now off season I would reduce the dancing a little bit and then I'd introduce more traditional strength training dead lifts, overhead presses, bench presses, rows and that kind of stuff. But if they're in season I really think maps 15 is going to is going to be your best approach for sure. We'll send that to you by the way. Oh, thank you. Yeah. And then after that when you're off season maps that are Bollock is good. Maps Strong is good. Maps Symmetry is good. Those are all good programs that I think that are mass performance. Those are all great programs for off season. Rebecca, are you in our private form? No. I'm going to have Doug give you access to our private form too. That way you can get because here's the thing too. Like when you're talking about the type of athlete you're talking about like every case is very individual too. So like it might help to be able to have access to us and be like, hey I have a client. This is the condition. This is the issue. This is the challenge. And then we can be more specific. Then I know right now we're talking very general. And I think I would give you different advice based on each case, right? On what their challenge is because there are so many moving parts and so many different exceptions to the rule on what I might advise someone based off of what's happening with that current client of yours or that athlete. So we'll give you access to that and then send you Math 15 also. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thanks for calling in. No problem. Thanks. Bye. Thank you. Good edition Adam because the more advanced the athlete is the more specialized the advice and the training. Why did you lie to her though about the dance moves and lifting over your head? I literally walked in yesterday and you were doing the dirty dancing thing with Justin. Yeah, I was really I mean that part where he jumps and runs and lifts him above my head. Yeah. That was we're getting better. We are. We're getting good. We finish it with a kiss and slowly lower him. I don't like that part. Hey, it's only way I'll practice with you. We got to do the whole thing. Fine. No, I mean, you know, I mean, that's another point too is I mean, she's a physical therapist. She said so I'm sure she knows some of that but so much skill. She had a physical therapy background and even that's what she said. Oh, I didn't catch that. Or maybe I read it. I read in her question. That, you know, that so much of strength moves in sports is technique. It's not necessarily like, Oh, I can lift this much weight. Therefore, I can do this. Yeah. I mean, I mean, not not really, not necessarily. Well, also, I mean, she's got to have an off season. I know like that's that's another one of the things because they're constantly traveling and it's like a year round. It's tough. It's tough to really focus hyper focus on strength training when you don't like present it with adequate time to really focus on it. You know, when you get to athletic any sport at this level, this high level is like training a professional football player or a basketball player. The micro tweaks for them are so so individual. So it's really hard to give like this. This I mean, this was a bunch of 15 year old kids that were just trying to build general strength. Right. Real easy advice. Right. So I want to go back to what you address in that. That I mean, what we say, what we said in that episode is still very true. Like this as far as the, if you are a super hyper focused athlete and you're dancing two hours a day, every single day, you're going to sacrifice a little bit on body sculpting. You're not going to have a women's bikini competitor physique. Now, does that not mean that there's not anomalies that look like a bikini competitor and isn't a great dancer because she has great genetics? No, of course there's those anomalies, but if you're trying to train to look like a bikini competitor and also a dancer, something's got to give. Yeah. And so those same rules apply. And then to Justin's point, when you're an athlete like that, you do need to have somewhat of an off season. You know, you can't be doing dance. Also, this is a unique sport because you know what it reminds me of? It reminds me of old, the old school bodybuilding competitions, the very first bodybuilding competitions, you would come out and you would do a feet of strength and then you would flex and pose. And if bodybuilding was like that today, there's no way these athletes would hit the stage at 2% body fat. They wouldn't be able to, because they wouldn't be able to do the feet of strength. So there's a balance when it comes to these dance sports. You got to have the aesthetics and the performance. So you got to kind of balance the two out. Unlike, you know, like you said, football, like there's no balance. Here's what you look like. Go play and let's see if we can make you play better. Well, and I think too, really the nutrition is the biggest thing that you can have control over in this situation and present your body, you know, a little more aesthetically, like you can manipulate. So I think that if you put a little more emphasis in that during the season, I think that'll go far. So this has been my experience, okay? I've only trained a handful, but in my experience, they, when they get into season and they have their outfits and they got to be performing on stage and that they all want to look a certain way. And so they go into this like extreme diet. And they just, it's just all about calories. They cut their calories are crazy. And they're already doing so much activity. So they definitely reduced weight, right? They dropped down, but they do it in such an unhealthy manner that they don't have the best looking physique they potentially could have. They don't have the healthiest, the strongest, because they're not feeding their. So most of my effort with these clients was around like teaching them how to feed their body properly and how to balance out their macros. That to me was the biggest game changer in their supporting them. And what helps you avoid inflammation and all these other things. Joint pain, like if you're, you know, if you're just not eating ideal foods and like processed foods and things are making their way in, it really affects the performance. Oh, well, there's a high rate of things like osteopenia and like dancers, like ballet dancers. I mean, these are people who are training their bodies hard. Yet how are they getting bone loss? Let's see. They don't eat. Yep. They're not eating enough nutrients. So that's, I mean, you hit the nail on the head with that. Our next caller is Josie from Indiana. Hi, Josie. How can we help you? Hi. So I am an artist in a florist. And I've been lifting weights since eighth grade with decent progress beginning in 11th grade. I've been listening to your show for about two years. And I've gone through the whole back catalog. I've really enjoyed it. And with using your info and your advice when my brother started lifting, I was able to teach them like how to go to the gym and how to lift weights. So now they're a lot stronger than me, which is a bummer, but I guess it means I did my job all right. I'm now a freshman in college and I'm struggling with my fitness goals. I love weightlifting and I really enjoy seeing my physique change from lifting weights and getting stronger. And I also really enjoy walking and running. I run like two to 10 miles a week. It really depends how I'm feeling. And then I walk probably about 28,000 steps a day right now with some... I'm kind of expecting that to change since winter is coming and in Indiana the winter is rough. I can get above 40,000 steps without really trying that hard. I lift weights five to six days a week averaging about 90 minutes per session. And my problem is this. I lost weight that I couldn't afford to lose this summer. I'm five to five hundred and four pounds and I lost about 15 pounds. So for me the 120s is way healthier. And I'm currently averaging out to about 2,000 calories a day like I eat more or less depending on the day. And I'd like to bulk up sooner rather than later. And I know your programs are great. And I've heard a lot of your information but the problem is knowing what direction to go because I know an incremental approach would be generally the best direction. But my weight right now is just not sustainable. So I need to get it up faster. And I can't do the don't look at the scale approach because my weight is just not right for my height and not right for my body. So I would love to know how to gain weight in the healthiest way possible and just boost my metabolism and make it work with the amount of steps that I take every day. Because I'm not a person who would like to be a 10,000 step maximum. Okay, I have to know more about that. The only time I've ever seen steps consistently that high was when I trained a professional soccer ref. So what are you doing to get 28 to 40,000 steps a day? That is insane. I'm a commuter on a college campus. And so I have some time before and after classes. And I love walking and listening to podcasts. And that's I live in a really walkable town. So I just I just get out there a lot. And then I fall asleep if I try and read sitting down. So I just tend to read my college stuff, like walking on the treadmill. And it just kind of accumulates. But like I said, during the winter, I don't think I'll be hitting it like really getting it that easy. So well, the okay. So and the goal is for us to get our weight up a little bit and build some muscle. I actually think it's going to naturally happen. If I mean, that is so many steps that you reducing that by 50 percent, it's going to change your your your calorie deficit so dramatically that you'll probably start to see a little bit of waking. And if not, we increase our calories a tiny bit and we focus on strength with like a maps, anabolic type of a program. Josie, are you noticing any any do you have any signs of hormonal imbalances? Is your your menstrual cycle off? Are you noticing any changes in hair and skin, cold, hot tolerance, energy, libido, anything like that? Yeah. So that that is why I know I need to gain weight. Like right now is because my menstrual cycle has been off for a couple years. And it just like my skin is always on and off. So I know that that is off. Okay. Look, so I'm going to give this is an easy answer. So what I'm going to give you is actually very simple. The challenge is going to be following through because you love exercise. You have a bit of a, you know, I'm going to say this very lightly, but a bit of an unhealthy relationship with exercise. And I'm speaking from experience. This is the challenge that I have as well. So the answer is very simple. And if you do what I tell you, you're going to get what you want. The challenge is going to be doing it. Okay. So what I'm going to, what I would do, if you were my client, and if I could get you to do what I want you to do, I would tell you to take the next week off completely. So you do no exercise, no running. You can keep walking, but I would do no exercise whatsoever. Continue to eat the way you are. And then when you get back the following week, I would have you lift twice a week. That's it. Two days a week of lifting. I would do no running, especially with the amount of steps that you're taking. And you will see, if you follow that, first off, when you get back to lifting, the following week you'll be stronger than you were immediately because your body needs that rest and that recovery. And then following that, you will see the strength gains and you will see improvements. And your menstrual cycle will come back within a few weeks, probably, maybe at most within six weeks, if you follow that. But the challenge is going to be, can you do it? Can you do just two days a week? Okay. So I have a question on the nutritional side of that because I understand what you're saying and I will try to, I'll write it down and try and follow that next week. What I've been having trouble with recently is trying to get my calories up and then it's kind of led me into this binging cycle at night because I'm like, well, anything works. So then I end up eating a cup of peanut butter. And I am just like, what, the information is so conflicting. I'm like, do carbs, do fats, eat whatever you want, make it strict. You're overthinking it. So just like in this scenario, I'm overthinking it, but like, if I eat what I want, I'll eat a cup of peanut butter every night. So it's like, I need a little bit. That's because you're so depleted and you're probably starving for that fat. You're body starving. Starving for that fat. You're severely over-trained and underfed right now. So that's where you're at. You just need to bulk the, build the calories up throughout the day. Can you have, can you have dairy? Or are you, is dairy okay for you? Yeah. So you can have a glass of milk that wouldn't bother your tummy. Yeah, what does your breakfast look like too? Well, I'm going to give you this because this is going to be easy. If you could have milk, if milk doesn't bother you, just do this, eat like you're doing and have a eight to 10 ounce glass of whole milk with breakfast, lunch and dinner. That will add the right amount of calories, fats, proteins, a little bit of sugar that you're buying. And it's got, it's nutrient dense. So whole milk, eight to 10 ounces with breakfast, lunch and dinner. And that's it. That'll do it for you right there. And then two days a week of strength training. We're going to send you maps on a Bollack, follow the two day a week option. Thank you. And take next week off. So I would add the milk now and then I would take next week off completely. No cart, no running, no lifting. And here's what you'll notice. Your sleep is going to get better. You're going to get better energy. You're going to start to feel like, man, I'm on fire. Then you're going to come back and work out the following week and you're going to be stronger. And you're going to be tempted to ramp things back up. Don't do that. Stick to two days a week for a while until you get your menstrual cycle back, which is a great sign. When your period comes back, that's like a very good sign that your body feels healthy enough to be fertile. And I would stay with that for a while. And the challenge is going to be when you start to feel great and you start to get that energy, the challenge is going to be keeping yourself out of the gym and keeping yourself from doing way more stuff. But you got to follow the process. I know you said try. So I'm going to give you a quote from one of Justin's favorite movies. There is no try. There is only due. So don't try. Just do it. Just blindly do it. Because here's what's going to happen. Here's the challenge, Josie. You're in this state of relationship with exercise where if you listen to yourself, you're not going to do what I say. So what you're going to have to do, and you've been listening to us for two years, is you're going to have to just be literally, I trust what they say. I'm going to blindly follow because it's going to go against every feeling in your body. Everything in your body is going to tell you to do more. So just blindly, literally, just blindly follow what we say and then you'll get where you want. And then once you start to get there, it'll get a little easier because you'll start to feel a lot better. But you got to blindly follow it for a little while, okay? Okay. All right. Let's do that. We'll say you got this. We'll send you a map, send a ball, and then- Follow up with us, Josie. And then to follow maps at a ball with mass performance and map symmetry if you want more programming after that. But maps at a ball like two days a week, perfect. Do that not next week, but the following week. Okay. All right. All right, Josie. All right. Sounds good. Thanks, Josie. Thank you. You got it. All right. You know, this is like- Bro, I- One person in my entire career. Yeah. That's a lot. Do you understand how many 28,000 or 40,000 steps every day is? He was a professional soccer ref. Doing multiple- You're running up and down all day long. For multiple games. Or a mail carrier. Mail carriers. Yeah. You know what? I can't remember turning too many mail carriers, but you're right. I did. They were like 25 to 35. Yes, dude. Like I'm talking about- When she said- She could easily hit 40. Yeah, I've never trained anybody that- You are not- Is at that level. You are not sitting still all day long, yeah. Exercise and movement is a drug for her. 100%. There's something she's avoiding or it's- You're running from something. It's a very hard- It's a very hard thing to break, which is why you literally have to go into it and blindly trust and just follow it and just fight every feeling in your body. And then it'll get a lot easier, but she's in that state. Like I could- I know. I've been, you know, not that bad, but I've been there. Even the craving that she has for peanut butter. Almost always when I have somebody who's really deputed like this, the female client of mine that's just not getting enough healthy fats in their diet, that your body is telling you that. No wonder you love a cup of peanut butter. It's all the fat in there. The body is telling you like- These are calories. I want it. I need it. And then you just let go and it's like, whoa. Yeah. And simply just, I mean, reducing the amount of activity, increasing a little bit of calories. But you're right. The hardest- It's easy advice, hard to take. Yeah. So here's why I gave her the advice of milk because- So I've trained people like her exactly, like females in this position. They've got this kind of unhealthy relationship with exercise and nutrition. And so long as they can tolerate milk, I like it because it's liquid. And it doesn't feel to them like they're overeating because you're drinking it. You don't feel stuffed. It's just part of the meal. But three, eight ounce or 10 ounce cups of whole milk, that's like 400 calories. A lot of protein. There's some carbs in there, good, healthy fats, nutrient dense. Usually it's fortified with vitamin D. She gets the calcium. That will be, that's like the perfect addition. And then she drops her training and gets rid of the running. She can keep walking. She'll, her body will respond. It's like, it's like waiting. Her body's like, please do this for me. Please let me recover. Yeah. And then watch what happens. So, but the hard part is going to be doing it because whatever she's running from or the reason why she's using exercise the way she is, and maybe she doesn't realize this, but when she stops, it's going to surface. She's going to have to deal with some of those feelings and some of those challenges in other ways. Yeah. You're keeping your body that busy. You are trying to stay distracted from something. I don't know what it is. Only she knows that. Only she's the one that's going to be able to work on that. And you're right. Like this is the beginning. We can solve it temporarily by getting the calories up, but then eventually whatever it is that I'm running from or staying busy so I don't have to think about, we'll serve. Josie, if you're listening to this, do what we say and then follow. If you need help, follow. In fact, Doug, put her in the forum too. We're going to put you in the forum. I want, I want you to give us updates because this is going to be a challenge for you, especially week four, five, six, when you start to feel really good. This will be a bit of a challenge. So just keep us updated. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all our free giveaways. We got a bunch of guides that can help you with fat loss and muscle building and strength gains. They're all free, mindpumpfree.com. You can also find all of us on social media. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump Adam. And you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. This one's really important. And that is to phase your training. If somebody trains for a full year doing a bench press and they're always aiming for five reps, if you compared that person to a person who did a bench press where they did three or four weeks of five reps, but then they did three or four weeks of 12 reps and then three or four weeks of, let's say, 15 to 20 reps and then they'll throw in some supersets, at the end of that year, you're going to see more consistent progress from the person who's moving in and out. And less injury. That's another thing. You'll see less injury as well.