 Today, we're going to take your questions on the theme we've been discussing all month, which is how to gain someone else's interest, how to break that ice, and essentially how to start a conversation. Today's guest to help us answer your questions and some of our own is actor, comedian, and he's even a magician, which we'll get into later, Chris Williams. You may know his face and even his voice from national commercials, from TV where he co-stars in Silicon Valley as Hoover, the security guard at Hooli. He was crazy-eyed killer on Curb Your Enthusiasm in the movies. He was in Dodgeball with Ben Stiller and Vince Vaughn, and he's in a new Amazon original pilot called Upload and a movie with Ethan Hawke called Nailbiter, which isn't quite out yet. Exactly. He's a busy guy. We're very grateful he's able to make it to the studio today to help us answer some of your questions and give us some real truth about what it's like to be an actor and face so much rejection. We're going to delve into that and some fun questions from our listeners. As always, it is important to break the ice in any field we're in. Acting is no different. We know the value of who you know and how they know you, as you told me earlier. So we're going to be delving into that. As you recall on our first impression episode, we talked a lot about body language and how important that is when we walk into a room and set the tone. We would love to know what your thoughts are, obviously, with auditions. Before you even say that first line, you're making an impression. Is there something going through your mind to set you up in that room and is there something you're queuing on body language-wise to nail it? One of the first things that you do as you walk into a room, if people are watching you walk into the room, you can actually use the door as a frame. So pausing for a second so they look at you like a picture, which gives you which, especially if you're doing acting or that type of thing, it'll frame you to look so they have an image of you as you walk in the room and you have to walk in with confidence. Any place you go, you have to walk with confidence. You guys know that. The first impressions are so important because it's all either downhill from there or either maintaining or going up. But it's keying in on how you're presenting yourself is so important because you may not even realize that you're slouching or you're slumping your shoulders or fidgeting or something like that. You put your shoulders back and walk in always with confidence. And it's funny you mentioned the doorway because we have a doorway drill that we've been preaching for years on this show that any doorway you walk through, audition or not, you anchor your body language to it, meaning you stand up tall, you roll your shoulders back and down, your arms are uncrossed and you put a smile on your face and just anchoring it to that doorway. When you walk through the door, that's when people are first seeing us. So that is a snapshot in their mind of that first impression. Exactly. It's also that easy cue to remind you that, hey, you're walking into something else or somewhere else in time to straighten it up. Is that an old actor's technique that's been around for a while? I've never heard that before. Well, I've learned it from, there's a couple of different things I've learned from either old acting techniques because I've been doing it for 25 years now. So you develop things on your own as well as hearing from other things. I also did it in terms of breaking the ice is you take control of the room, which I say, how are you? And they usually, no one is going to say nothing. They'll respond to you like, I'm fine. And if it pertains to a character, for instance, I would say, how are you? And they say, well, you know, I'm good. How are you? And I'm like, well, and if it had anything to do with the character, like the character, this woman, Paula, she did pilot after pilot after pilot. And I asked her, like, what, you know, what's your secret? And she said she had an audition where it was a flustered woman who, you know, that's the character. So she said, how are you? She's like, well, I'm fine. So how are you? And she said, oh, well, on my way here, I was getting in my car and I lost the key and I couldn't find it. And I was in the car, so to roll. So she went to this whole thing already setting herself up as that character. And also, you know, like peacocking, wearing something that will draw the attention to and they'll say, well, why do you have that Superman shirt on? Or let me show you my Superman socks, which also keys into remembering something about you that they would not have necessarily put together. Yeah, I was just going to ask you with these auditions, right? There's a moment where you're you. Right. And then there's the moment where they go, all right, now be the character. So it's interesting that she is dropping in character as part of her introduction. Is that something that you've picked up as well? Well, well, it but was it really her or was she telling a story like the character that she was doing? Interesting. So that's that's the when I used to go into an audition that when I was young and going into an audition, I used to call it the vacuum because you walk in there and if you're so nervous and you're trying to figure things out and you're saying the lines and you want to do well and and then suddenly you think and then you're literally out the door. And I feel like you just sucked out of out of a vacuum. You just popped out of a vacuum like what just happened for five minutes? I don't remember a thing that occurred. So it's the breathing, taking your time and taking control of your space and your time. So let's talk about the drive over there. Are there mantras or things you have going on mentally? You know, no matter how how long I've been doing this, I still struggle. You will always find actors in their cars after an audition going, oh, I should have done it this way. Or I should have done it that way, even if they did a great job or or even get the role. So I still struggle with how I approach going to an audition. And it depends on if I know the cast and directors beforehand. If I'm comfortable with them, do I want to have banter with just me beforehand and tell a story or do I want to if it's a specific character like crazy eyes killer when I went in to play a gangster rapper? If you look at me, I do not look like anywhere. I'm from Chaperon, New York, Millwood, New York. I do not look like a gangster rapper. But for me to go into that audition, I left my house. I had a wife beater on some, you know, big old baggy pants. This is, you know, back in 2003, I had two fangs, like silver fangs. And I had a tattoo on my arm. I don't have any tattoos, but I put a big wolf and I call myself the Wolf May, right, because that would be a rapper, the Wolf May. And I and I and I didn't have blue eyes. So I put brown contacts in because it totally changes my look. And I was scruffy. And I, you know, so I left with a with a bandana and a hat to the side. And I left my house like that just to see what it felt like to be in that character. So, you know, when I got in my car, first of all, I was I was afraid of getting pulled over by the cops and be like, no, really, no, it's a character. No, really. I'm Chris. You know, I was a George. No, so, so. But I left and I went into a purposely went into the wrong office as the Wolf May, whatever. And I said, oh, yeah, I'm looking for a curvy enthusiasm and to see the visceral effect that she had. And she was like, um, yeah, it's it's it's down there. It's the rally. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks a lot. You know, you know what I mean? Like you have to go. I was like, oh, it's fucking work. You know, it's working like, oh, my God, it's gonna work. And so in order for me to go into that audition, I had to be that character. Because Master P, Ghostface Killer, Mike Epps, like all these guys, sticky fingers, they all read for the role. Oh, wow. But to but to you have to know the sensibilities as an actor, what makes curvy enthusiasm funny, which is the push and pull. So when I left that audition and I went in, he Larry thought I was an actual a rapper because he's like, no, Larry, he's an actor. But it's that you have to own whatever you're going to go into the room with. And not if you're not an actor, but just own who you are as you enter a room, you know, and what you can contribute and what you bring to the table. Do you feel for large roles that there is a thin line of getting locked into that character? Like we outside looking and we always hear about certain actors who who get stuck and who have found it difficult to find their way out of that character once they have put themselves in it for so long. Well, that's a double edged sword, because for me, I don't have it would be nice sometimes to have that locked in the character. Oh, if we need a gangsta, whatever, or we need this type character, Chris Williams, the guy. But I've done so many different types of characters. I can do anything, but that doesn't necessarily mean that like, oh, if we need this, yeah, Chris can do Chris can do that. But, you know, so I understand that it's a double edged sword. Like sometimes you want to be locked in that way. Sometimes you want to get, you know, be have the freedom to do other roles and stuff like that. Yeah, it's like the mobsters. It's a soprano. Right. Exactly. These Italian guys are casting the exact same roles repeatedly. You're like, I remember him from that other mob movie. Right. And like Marco, the Mexican drug lord. Wasn't he in break? Oh, he's also in this. He plays, there's a guy who has like, I think his name is Marco in like 16, like, like 10 films. He's IMDb. He's IMDb. Oh, Marco, you know, the roles. Exactly. Danny Treya is another one of those guys who always was playing some convict or, you know, some crazy street gangster. All right. So this magician thing. Yeah. How did this get started? Well, when I was 40, I've always done kind of magic stuff. And so going back to, you know, ice breaking and right. This is something that has helped you in the ice breaking rule. It has because when I was 40, I got classes up at the Magic Castle, which is the Academy of Magical Arts here in Los Angeles. So our first client ever just had his first show. Oh, nice. Magic Castle. Yeah. I met him 11 years ago. He was a street performer. Yeah. And we got a chance to see him at the Magic Castle. What's his name? I know the this is what's his street name. It's Frank DeVille. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He did his first long run. It was his first week. That's great. And he's been busking on the Jersey Shore for for years. And now he's made his way out to Santa Monica and he's just loving it. Very cool. So they do classes up there, too. Yeah, they have classes up there. So I got it for my 40th birthday. And I was like, that's the greatest class I've ever taken because, you know, no one wants to go to class. You know, I was so jazzed to be like, teach me, like, tell me things, tell me things. And then I took like three classes. And then to become a magician member, you have to do. You have to learn three skill tricks, not like, you know, fake tricks, but you have to learn three skill tricks and do and perform it in front of a panel of some of the greatest magicians in the world. What would could you define what a skill trick is? Well, they know they can tell the difference between there's gimmicks like you, you can like it'll a card will change or you can buy. Gotcha. These are strictly with your hands and slightly hands. I'll do I'll do one for you later. But so you're you're performing in front of and a routine. You have to pattern. You have to present yourself. And so it was a little easier for me because I was an actor, because I could perform. Sure. But I had four of the greatest magicians, you know, judging me. I fooled one of them, which was cool. But judging me on my work and it's a lot of practice, you know, just like in anything that you do, you've got to practice to make it look like it's not doing anything. The few that I have at Frank being one of them. I mean, he always had something in his hand that he was manipulating and it was just constantly working, whatever that was, whether it was a ball, a cigarette, a deck of cards, a rope, just what can I do with this? How can I like it was wonders of the amount of hours put into those are those objects? That's why you see a lot of nerds who are home by themselves, you know, playing with cards. There's one of my influences was this musician called Richard Turner, who has a movie right now called Delta, a documentary on him. And he said that he practiced for twenty four years, 17 hours a day. And he never he always has a deck of cards. Even when he had heart surgery, he had a deck of cards in his hand. So that's how. And now I'm an amateur magician. Like, don't get me wrong, you know, there's amateur actors. And you know, I'm an I can do some magic, but some of the guys the guys up there are doing mind blowing things, amazing things. So I just like to be in the club. You know, the story is like in the room. Exactly. Yeah, for those who don't know, I mean, the Magic Castle, you can do a little bit of explaining about the tradition of that place. I mean, it's it's it's something just to be in there. Just and just walking in, I finally got the opportunity to go to see a friend. And it was it was a wonderful experience from going in, having dinner and drinks and just how nice everyone was. Right. It's 55 years old. These families just started it because they had a love for magic. And now it's one of the only places in the world where it's dedicated to magic and you have to dress up. Yes. You have to men have to be in a jacket. By standards is pretty rare. Exactly. Well, anyway, exactly. You have to be in it. You can't even take your jacket off in the club. You can't take photos anywhere in the club, no selfies, nothing. The women have to be in dresses so everyone's dressed up. It's like old school. It's taking it back to the times when, you know, people actually dress up to go to the movies or, you know, dress up to fly on a plane. And it's and you can't you can't go unless you're invited by a magician's member or an associate member. So it's a kind of an exclusive exclusivity to it as well. And I've been a member for 10 years now. This being September will be my 10th year. So I'm excited about that. It's it's a fun place to go. And so and whenever I have guests in town, I just, yeah, people blow their blow their minds with some of the great. It's one of those places where if you get an invite, you're going. Yeah, you're not like, I don't know. Maybe next week I'll squeeze you and you're going. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a fun place. And for us, it was so great about it is the rooms are so small, right? You get up there and you're expecting to be in a larger auditorium. But most of the rooms are very intimate. You're in there like 15, 20 other people. And even though Johnny and I were like focused like hawks on their hands and the ropes and everything, still couldn't figure it out. Yeah, that's a total pros. It's a close up gallery. There's a parlor of prestige, prestidigitation. I can. And there's magic tricks and illusions built into the place. So certain walls. I was also told some of the bar stools will raise and come down. And the Irma, the piano, the ghost. Yeah, yeah, you can request a song from her and she will play it. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's the building itself is a part of the act. Exactly. It's a cool place. So we also hear a little birdie tells us you're working on a reality show with your sister. Is this? Well, I'm hoping I like to travel. My sister is Vanessa Williams. I like to hold her younger. She's older. Like to like to travel and like to eat. So trying to incorporate a show where I can travel and eat for free. Yeah, it's this. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. So it's like a cooking competition show with so we're trying to get that off the ground. Was there I? AJ and I both grew up as the older brother and house to a younger sister. And I think pretty much the same thing of there was always at least in my family, my sister, I had found out and AJ as well. We had found things that we were really interested in early in life and went at those things. And younger sister, not having those things always was like, why does the older brothers get all the attention? Or they just seem to have it together all the time or younger sister struggling in your position. It sounds like a family that was with a lot of creativity and art going on. So what was that like growing up? Well, my parents were music teachers. I don't make your school music teachers. So we had music and arts and all over the house. Wrapping. Apparently. You're a rapper now, right? Oh, yeah, exactly. I could play a rapper on TV. And then, you know, with sibling, there's always sibling rivalry between the two of you. And it's weird. Four years apart, just enough to be far, but close enough to be still sibling rivalry. So when she became president of the junior high school, like, you know, I had to become president and then become freshman class president. And so I had a four year, you know, trail to try to get through. And then she did performing arts and musical theater. And then my junior year in high school, she won Miss America. So I'm like, what? I have to start lifting weights now. Like, what? I haven't missed America. Like, what the, you know, and that flew out the window. And I remember watching her win Miss America. Now, I knew she was going to win. I mean, I just knew it. I was like, she's going to win this. And she went, I was like, now is what I got to do? It's like, man, I knew she was going to win. It wasn't like, oh, come on. I know you. I knew she was going to win. And so it was a. It was an interesting thing because you have that as a as a sibling, you have that pride. Of course. But you're like, then it's a reflection on you. So every phone call for. Months on months on end. And, you know, back in the day, I'm an an older man now. You know, so we had one telephone, you know, one line and a whole, you know, no call waiting. So every phone call was for my sister, like every phone call. And I was like, can I get a phone call maybe once from somebody? Did she let you wear the tiara? Funny enough, for my senior picture, my little rebellious self, I was a really small kid as well. I took her dress that she won in. And got in it and put her tiara on and use it as my senior picture. And they wouldn't let me use it because I said it was disrespectful. I was like, but that's the whole point. So, yes, I did. Yeah. But so it. But it's going back to that and going into the same business, you know, she's in the same business paving my to carve out your own way. Is is a hard road when you have an older sibling. And a lot of people don't even realize that we're siblings because I've tried to make my career, my career and been successful doing it that way. But I still get to this to say, hey, you, Vanessa's brother. I go, no, she's my sister because it starts here. That's why you talking to me. It starts. Yeah, my. Yeah. I was wondering if there was a certain point you're just like, yeah, of course she did. Oh, well, of course she got this role. Of course we're just like, I'm done. I'm just going to do my best. I'm just just over it. That's exactly what you had to do. Yeah, it was just like that, because I was like, so I decided to go to George, she went to Syracuse. And as a matter of fact, I always wanted to be a sports broadcaster. And I got into Syracuse, which is the Bob Costas, the Gumbel, the number one sports broadcasting school. And I got into the school, but I was like, you know what? I can't do it. I can't do another four years of being the sister or being the brother of of her. And I was like, you know what? I'm going the other direction. So I went south to Georgetown in a good school. I got a liberal arts degree, a psychology degree and just try to carve my own way. And then I got into, you know, acting after I. So how did that happen? How did you end up going from carving your own way, psychology, into show business? Well, I came out right after I graduated college, Georgetown. And I said it said it brought Italy, which was an amazing experience just to grow as an as an artist and to get in touch with, you know, you look at Florence and I literally walked into the villa. Georgetown owns a villa there and I studied there for a semester and you look at Florence and it looks like a paint. I'm like, oh, no wonder the Renaissance started here because it's so beautiful. So getting a liberal arts degree, I didn't know exactly what I was going to do. So I was like, let me let me go to law school. I was going to go to law school and become a lawyer. My parents are always like your sisters in the entertainment business. We want you to have a real job and took the LSATS and and I applied to Georgetown law and I was like, you know, but I'm going to take a year off, you know, before I go to law school and and then I moved right out to California to and my sister was living out here at the time. So I came out here and then I was on a classic concentration with Alex Trebek game show. Oh, I won 32 grand. I won a Jeep and I went all kinds of stuff. I was like, OK, you know, I kind of like it for me exactly. And and then I was actually in the record industry. I worked. I worked in our for a mercury records wing, wing, mercury records and Tony, Tony, Tony and my sister and well, Brian, well, yeah. Yeah. And then did some promotion, like college promotion like that. You were talking. We were talking about hustling before. Absolutely. As a young 20, you know, 20 or 21 year old kid. Trying to hustle to get where you need to get. Sure. In the in the music industry, just getting any attention, getting people out to the show. And, you know, we were also talking about what the industry looks like today. Now, it's a totally different monster. Totally. So I did, you know, college promotion and trying to get. I had Vanilla Ice's demo tape, which was like, really, like this. And then I was in there. I was going to go, OK, let me be an entertainment lawyer or let me get in the record industry for a while. But you could see the writing on the wall where you could actually fall up, like you get fired and then you get hired somewhere else and get a better job. It was so bizarre. And I always wanted to get into performing because I am a performer. I mean, since I was in nursery school, I've been performing in some some way. And so I came trying to figure out what I really wanted to do. And I did a play and I was 25 and they're like, well, are you going to do this or not? And I literally all my friends from Georgetown were going to law school, doctors, business school, and I'm like, I don't want to be poor. Like I want to have a job and I don't want to, you know, as an actor, you just have to give everything up and throw all caution as the wind. And I was like, OK, let me just do it. As long as I see progress in my career, I'll just keep funding it. So I don't recommend this. But for six years, I had eight credit cards, eight to ten credit cards, and I would put all of my here, pay rent for this one, pay transfer balances, and I was juggling and I got into fifty five thousand dollars in credit card debt. So I was burning about six grand a year in finance charges. But as long as I saw forward progress in my career, I would keep going. And that's a tough, that's a tough pill to swallow. Thinking that, you know, am I going to have to file bankruptcy at 27? That's going to affect my credit. And it got really, really hard. And I used to do a video diary of myself every night from like twenty five to twenty nine, where I would just recap the day or what's going on. And I just found them and I had them converted. And I found a one from when I was twenty seven and I go, I'm broke. I was like, I'm broke. Look at my bills. I showed the bills on the wall. It was a had a video camera, you know, like a little old video camera. I said, look at my bills on the wall. I all, you know, post on the wall. I'm like, I got ten dollars in my wallet. And, you know, it's hard. And and watching that, it actually, I just got chills thinking about it because I was like, oh, wow, that was like real, you know? But I saw as long as I believed in myself and believed in my and invest. Because I said, OK, look, my friends are going to law school. They're going to they kind of have seventy thousand dollars a year to go to law school. I was like, so this is my law school. This is my this is my grad school. I'm going to spend the money and then hopefully it'll pay off. And then I got a couple. I got a movie here, a movie there and just built up. And I got a TV show called Hype on the WB network before the CWW there with a little frog. Yeah. And I did a sketch comedy show. So I was hustling also doing stand up. Yeah. OK. I wasn't a big I'm not. I don't love stand up comedy. Like these some comics love it, but I did it as an end means to an end. So I had a show over at Luna Park, which is run in Robertson. And like Zach Alfinakis was there, Dane Cook, like they came through. And I was just trying to do my own thing. And then I got on this show called Hype, which is a sketch comedy show with Frank Caliendo, who does all the impressions. And and there was 10 of us and we did 17 episodes. Knock my dead off just like that. Right. So then I could start over. Like I started with nothing and I have something behind me. So it's a lot of a lot of it is about the having faith in yourself and and not not getting I mean, there's it's just trying times when you're trying to get ahead and hustling in your career and trying to get go forward. And well, that hustle has changed so much. I mean, we were just talking about this in the music industry, but we have a lot of friends that do or who are in comedy. And it's so when you were going through all those things to strengthen your acting chops and get some parts, it's well, we're going to do some acting and then we'll do some stand up. And then probably let's do some we'll try to write some sketch. And now it's well, now you've got to have a YouTube channel. You have to have a podcast. You have to have exactly. And it's just it's a different ball game. It's a totally different ball game. And it's interesting, you know, I'm probably 51 this year. So it's to try to transition between the old school mindset of hustle. And there's a lot of great actors out there who are not working. Yes, there's a lot of YouTube, you know, stars, vine stars who got deals. Yeah. So it's hard to wrap your head around. What do I have to do to stay relevant, so to speak? And or, you know, get in on the on the social media platforms or do something to get likes and and not take away from the content of the studying that you did, you know, as an actor. Well, of course, I mean, to have to shovel it all to all of the work that you've put into to get better. And now I'm busking for likes and views and the more outrageous weird shit that I do, the better the views. Like I just saw what I trained for. Right. It's it's right. Totally understand. So it's a but you have to believe yourself. Bottom line and everything is break that down a little further because obviously you got to get in the room. Right. You got to get to know these people. So were there strategies or techniques that you employed, sort of identifying who you had to know or who you had to meet to get things moving? And when you did get that opportunity, were there some strategies that you employed to get to that audition? Because it's far different from, you know, rubbing shoulders with someone at a bar to actually, all right, here's your audition. Right. Well, first of all, no one is a small person. When I when I say that an assistant, if you see an assistant, you you never know what they're going to become and what who they're going to be an assistant, someone, a barista, whoever you always communicate with them and be nice to them and talk to them as individuals, as opposed to what can you do for me, which you find a lot in Hollywood is all about. Well, if you can't do anything for me, why should I care about you? You need to care about everybody because I've seen assistants become heads of of divisions that have come back to me. It's like, I remember you when you came in on Valentine's Day and you brought, you know, chocolate roses for the staff just to say thank you for your hard work. And I remember that. So that's the part of the building the relationships is is always making sure that you treat everybody equally, so to speak. And remember, remember where you were and other people were there and they're just there. Everyone's trying to get to their their own pinnacle. Yeah, we used to have a saying back in the day back in New York when we were running programs. And I know it's kind of silly now because he's actually president. But we would say, you know, Janitor, Donald Trump, get an elevator. You treat him the same. Right. A lot of people get that confused. They go, oh, this person's head of me. He has higher dominance socially. I got to win his impression. But who cares about this guy? Well, you know, that's not the way the world works because one day the janitor could be your boss. And never you're not paying attention and giving value to everyone, which is what we say here. Give value, which would be attention. Perceptance approval. Right. We're going to know whether or not you're a good person based on how you're treating everyone. Right. We're looking at those cues, too. So when you dismiss people below you and this is a town full of social climbers, that person could climb two, three rungs ahead of you. And now they're a decision maker. Exactly. Exactly. So one of my techniques that I use for for that and for interpersonal relationships is if it's a first of all, when I fly, when I go, I fly a lot. I've been to 47 countries now. And so whenever I fly, I buy three bags of Toblerone chocolates, which are like they're expensive. They're like, you know, $30 worth of chocolate. But every time I get on a flight, I have many chocolates that I give to the if I see a service worker, all the people who are doing the flights, the women who take your ticket. When I first get on, I give it to the three front stewards and the pilots. And I go to the back and make sure that they have, you know, chocolate. And people are so appreciative of just people aren't nice anymore. No, I mean, they're not nice in an airport and it even gets my blood boiling. And sometimes I can be a not nice person, the situation. So to be on the receiving end of that constantly, the airplanes are much tighter. They're cramming people in. So, yeah, just that little small gesture of kindness, even even just saying, looking at their name tag and thank you, Anne, people like, oh, like, how do you know my name? Because no one ever pays attention anymore to like, no. How are you serving me right now? What do you take my ticket? You know, do this for me, do that for me as opposed to, oh, you're a human being, too. So let me treat you like a human being and say, oh, thanks, Anne, I appreciate that. So I always make sure. And if I'm being served, if I'm on the phone, especially if I'm on the phone with like customer service, I always write down the first thing I do is like, hi, Denpack, you know, wherever they are, you know, nice. Thank you, Denpack, because people will work harder for you as well. Sure. You know, just because you're treating them like a human being, as opposed to being. So that's one of my big things is asking people their name or, you know, making sure that that they're treated like were equals to a certain extent. What I've found in the world that we're in today, when you go out of your way to be nice, immediately, it was like, what do you want from me? No, I'm just being nice to her. Are you sure? Yeah. OK. Right. Everyone has an agenda. Everyone has an agenda. So I try to do small things like, you know, learn someone's name or bring bring some candy or bring something not to even set me apart, but just to acknowledge it. A lot of people are just not acknowledged now. Yeah. Nowadays, no one acknowledges, you know, people. So I think we have to acknowledge our listeners for their questions. Yes, that's right. Johnny and I have a ton of questions for you, but we have some listeners who phoned in, wrote in some awesome questions all around breaking the ice. So we have those queued up for you. Hey, Jay, Johnny and Chris. I'm wondering whether what's the smoothest ice breaking technique that you can come up with? I think you kind of just answered it with the table rounds. That's great. Yeah, I like it. Well, ice breaking techniques is, first of all, people also like to talk about themselves. Asking questions. I love asking questions. I mean, if you ask anybody, you get to know who they are and they will start to relax around you and then you can feel more comfortable with yourself. Even if you're nervous and you put it on someone else. Also, in dating aspects, if you ask a woman a question, guys, we're known for being report talkers as opposed to report talkers. We'll say, and to impress a woman, I'll say, well, I got this, I got this, I got this, I got this. To another guy, they're like, wow, he's got a lot of stuff. So a woman like, I don't want to hear about all your stuff. I want you to talk to us about me. Why don't you, he doesn't want to know about me. But if you ask questions and let them go, telling you. Yeah, we teach the conversation formula and a lot of our clients come from an analytical background. They get paid for their analysis as well, talking to computers. But when it comes to talking humans, they stumble over and much like this question, right? They want to know the ice breaker, the magical combination of words when in reality it's taking interest in the other person. Exactly. So our formula is we ask a question. We have to listen to their answer, which is the other challenging part, right? Exactly. Because a lot of times we play hot potato conversation. I'll just ask a question. I can start thinking about what I was going to eat in Iceland and how we get into the blue lagoon and all this stuff. And then come back, go, oh, what? And then ask another question. And all of a sudden you ask too many questions and now the balance is off. And the person's like, he's not even listening to me. So the third part is always answer their answer in a statement. You have to disclose something. So then they have a little bit to work with. Exactly. Right? And if they want to take more interest in you, they can. But it is key. Being curious and taking interest in other people. So in that situation where you know you got a big audition. Right. You know you got a short amount of time. Right. And you want to stand out. We talked a little bit about what to wear and a little bit about body language. But do you have anything else in the room that you're using conversationally, either at the start or the end of the audition? Well, I always ask, I always ask, how are you, you know, and they will volley something back to you like, how are you? And then you can go into and then you can have a little bit of a rapport because in a lot of situations where there's auditions or even in life, they just want to know, can they work with you? It's not necessarily can you do the job. We can all do the job. There's a lot of great actors out there that can do the job. A lot of them just like, do I want to be on a set with you for three months in Morocco and not be sick of you, you know? So it's a lot of the rapport of just like being comfortable with who you are but talking to them and having some sort of rapport that they know that you can do the job and that you're a capable person as well as an actor. And a lot of times their job is riding on you to be professional and perform, right? If they're the casting director, they're like, oh yeah, you got to choose this guy. He is great for this role. And then you're not on set on time and you're being an asshole. Well, then guess who's going to get the heat? The casting director. So they're being very judicious about who they're selecting. And even in auditions on job interviews and stuff when if you're interviewing for a job to be able to have the mindset of the sooner they find who they want, their job becomes easier. If you can show them, they don't have to look anymore. They don't want to be looking for eight to have 20 people that don't have interviews. We love HR. Johnny and I just line them up. We have to interview. Yeah, no one wants that. No one wants that. They want to fill the role and move on. So show them that you can fill the role and let's call it a day. But having that mindset of like, oh, well, you want me because, you know, it'll make your job easier. Now, this is a good one. We got a great question from Matthew C. Yes, in our Facebook group. Any good tricks for getting people to put down their phones and start talking? I always feel a little odd starting those conversations since I assume they're busy. That's a tricky one. It's because it's a generational thing too. We're so tethered to our phones now. It's hard to not take a break from it. Well, we're losing our manners as we go down this technology rabbit hole and it's getting worse and worse and worse. And it's always, it's funny because of our guys who are coming through, they're looking for opportunities to get better socially. So they're already committed to putting the phone down, breaking out of that, putting themselves out there. And what they're finding, and what I'm seeing, and the question always comes up like, I went out of my way. I'm starting to talk to people, but they're not talking back. Is it something I'm doing? 20 years ago, the idea of having to work to get yourself more extroverted, because it just seemed that everyone had it going on was extroverted. Right. And now here we are in this technology age where everyone is now getting more and more introverted because of that technology. So just because you went out of your way to look to get better socially and put yourself out there, doesn't mean that the rest of the world is ready for that as well. And it's looking, it's now reversed. One of the coolest things that I saw in the last couple of years is you go to a concert now, you go to Jay-Z and everyone is recording their concert. Everyone has their phone up recording it and really not paying attention to what's going on. I went to an Ario Speedwagon in Chicago concert. It's all people in their 40s, 50s, 60s. No one had, like no one, I took a video of people. I'm like, no one has their phone up. Everyone was sitting there enjoying the show. And I think that's, we've really lost that essence of being in the moment. So you really have to force yourself to put the phone down and really enjoy what is going on right now. Because even if you have a memory of it, if you didn't experience it, how, you know, what's it do for you? I've seen it now where people are getting angry because the performer requested that everyone puts their phones and they're like, I'm not going to that show. He won't let me put my film, the show. He's not being rude. You are being rude. Because everyone loves watching low-lit iPhone photos of you and videos of you at the show bouncing around, not even being able to see what's on stage. I've never, I admit, I've pulled out my phone. I've felt dumb afterwards. I've never gone back and watched those videos. I've never gone back and been like, oh my God, this Zed moment where he dropped. Never. So it's reflexive. So the question, I like being a little cheeky and asking a question. Did you get my meme? Did you get my like on that photo? Just calling it out, getting him to snap out of that technology moment. Because a lot of people are aware that they're on their phones, but it's a crutch, right? They don't have the confidence to stand there by themselves. So the second they feel discomfort, they're like, oh, let me get some dopamine. So if you just call it out in a cheeky way, like, hey, did you get my status update there? They'll perk up. What's going on? Oh, OK. He wants to have a conversation. That's a good idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good idea. Well, I think everyone needs to start minding where their attention is socially anymore. I mean, John caught me yesterday. We were in a meeting before we did our interview with Orin. And he's like, do you mind being present for the meeting? I'm like, sorry. It's like in its own. And it was an unconscious thing. It was in my hand. It's reflex now. It's become real. So it's, you know, I think as... Well, in our classroom, we collect everyone's phones. Perfect. And it's so funny because today, because Sandra left the phones on the coffee table, normally she just takes them in another room. And as I'm lecturing, phones are going off and I can see the anxiety in the room. Is that my phone? I think that was... No, I shouldn't... Right. And those things got to go. Yeah. Yeah. You're just so tied to it. It's just habit, right? But how do you break that? Well, your question of like, how do you get... That we got... How do you get someone to stop being on their phone? And I guess it's just in trying to engage them in like asking questions that we were talking about before. That's the only... It seems like that's the only way to... Or the meme or fitting into that, what they're doing and trying to bring it... Bring them out of it. Right. Realize, hey, there's real life over here. Exactly. Well, the other thing is, you know, it's saying a lot about the other person that you're trying to speak to now. They're telling you a lot about how they're viewing things socially. That's a good filter now if I like to. I really want to be dealing with somebody who cannot seem to get off social media who has to scan everyone's Insta and start posting on it for hours at a time. That's something to take into consideration now. Exactly. Well, the new iPhone OS, I don't know if Android is doing it. I'm sure they're probably already doing it. Apple's so far behind these days. But the new OS is supposed to have a feature that actually tracks your usage of these apps. And I think just raising awareness to the number of hours you're on it. I know for myself there was an app where you could plant a tree and if you used an app, the tree died. So the goal was to grow as many trees as possible to build a forest. And Amy and I had a little back and forth. Oh, I'm growing a tree. And she's like, oh, I better put down social and plant one. So I think if we can quantify it and realize how much time it's sinking away, then we can start to take more control. But a lot of us right now don't even realize how much time it's sucking from us. Not only that, people don't even like talking on the phone anymore. Sorry, I'm in that. I'm in that. Don't call me. What do you call me for? Don't call me. Text me. That's been my, there's been a few bandmates who have gotten so mad at me that they're calling me and my text back is, am I sleeping with you? Why are you calling me? Shoot me a text. Another question here from Bruno. Sort of the opposite, right? Instead of getting out of it, instead of getting into a conversation, he'd love to know what's the easiest way to eject out of a low value conversation, especially someone that you realize you're not interested in talking to. And I would assume someone in your position has been approached by some people where you're like, I would like to wrap this up. I gotta go. I gotta get moving. Any tricks to exiting those conversations? Wow. So I usually give them, if you, I think a lot of it comes when you're already trying to resist it and they feel you're resisting so they keep coming back. But if you directly deal with them and talk to them, and then you can do your exit. Does that make sense? So the more that you can, let me give you focus for 20 seconds and complete focus. Yes, nice to meet you. Thank you. It's very nice. And as opposed to, yeah, I got this because they'll be like, oh, he's an asshole, an asshole. You know, engage it with me. But if you can give people, I know it's hard sometimes, but just give them 5, 10, 15 seconds of actual genuine. I am acknowledging you and what you are doing or asking of me right now. But I gotta go. Right. So my thing is, if you can engage them honestly for a limited amount of time and then literally say, I'm busy, I have to go. That was the only thing that I do when people come. I was in Chicago last night at the Cubs game and I'm just standing there on the side also, which is an interesting thing, getting recognized in LA. Everyone, no one recognizes me. They recognize me, but I'm just another actor. In Chicago, people coming up to me going, can I just ask you something? And so a guy came up to me and he was like, oh, I loved you on curbing enthusiasm. He said, can I get a selfie? I'm like, yeah, sure, should you give him a selfie? And his friend's like, no, I don't know who he is. He's like, but can I get a selfie too? I'm like, if you, if you, he's like, I didn't know really, you know who you are, but I'm gonna get it just a case. I'll put it on social media, just a case. I was like, all right. So if you engage with people and then know that you can, you know, get out of there, but give them a genuine engagement for a limited amount of time. So it's funny you should say that because living in LA now for almost 10 years, I'm of that same mind like celebrity, I'm not gonna bother them. They're living their life. And Johnny takes a little bit different of a tact where he wants to, especially his idols, people he looks up to, he wants to give them their props. You know, where is the line for you in that? Obviously you are living a life. You're trying to get some things done here and you're working on a lot of things. Well, I've seen it more with my sister as well. Because my sister is famous. She's world famous. So I've seen it and I've learned how to, from how she handles it as well, she's very genuine and takes it. But it's interesting how people will talk about you while you're standing there. I thought she was taller than that. But if you call them on it a little bit, you know I'm right here, right? I try to do that as much as possible. Like if you're looking, if you're doing the look like, they're trying not to look at you but they're trying to recognize you, like I know him from somewhere. I'll go, yes, yeah, that's me. Whatever it is that you think, it is to me. And they go, where do I know you from? I go, you tell me. Come on, you're not going to tell me? No, I'm not. You tell me. And I said, but in about 30 minutes you can be like, oh, I know that's the guy from Dodgeball. Yeah, so I just kind of, it's fun. I look at it as, first of all it's flattering that people get to see you, you know, your work. Well, it's also tough though because especially as we're talking about this social media world like anything can be taken out of context, right? It's like you can actually be late for an audition and not have the time and someone be like, that guy's an asshole and then it goes viral. Right. Look at this, can you believe this? Right. So I just try to stay out of it because I know how precious time is and living in LA, how difficult it is to get places. So it's like you do you, you have these props to you. Well, I wouldn't know. There's for the most part, there's a, there's if I see somebody who's ban I love or whatnot, there's, there is they, Oh, there's so-and-so and I can let it walk, but there's, there's also certain people that if I see, I just go in the, like conscious brain shuts off and now I have to, it's just like, it's I'm on autopod, don't even realize what's happening to after the fact like, what did I do? And there's only And there's only certain people, like for whatever reason, if I ran into Joan Jett, like it would be over, like I would feel so bad for what was about to happen because you love that woman. And I wouldn't be able to shut it off, like I would just have to go over. It would be an autopilot response. But there's many that I see of like, oh, I'll wave. I remember seeing Henry Rollins having lunch one day and I was like, oh, that's Henry. So I went to the door and I just to give him a wave and he's like, gave me that salty Henry Rollins look like really, bro, I'm trying to eat. Like, yeah, I still want to wave. But you also, you know what it's like to deal with celebrities. So you're not the type of person. I mean, if it was Joan Jett, you'd be like gushing. But you'd have some sort of, some people don't have any kind of decorum whatsoever. It will like sit down at the table and try to have lunch with you. You're like, no, no, no. But you know, if the fact that you gave Henry a little wave, that was good enough that you got an acknowledgement that wherever he's going to acknowledge it for you, but at least he knew that you knew who he was. Yeah, which is, I think it's fine. That's fine, you know. We got another recorded call coming at you. Hey, AJ, Joni and Chris. This is Nick. Chris, I'm curious to hear how you think approaching and opening people who are used to being approached by many people, so people like celebrities, how you would think that is different from talking with people that maybe aren't used to that level of volume of interaction? Cheers. I think it's kind of two-fold when, first of all, it depends on who the celebrity is or who the person of interest is. And you can usually, body language, as you said, you can usually see how people are reacting to or are they open to anything like that. If you're trying to acknowledge them and they're not into it, don't do it. I mean, pay attention. I think if you pay attention to how people are, whether it's even a woman in the gym or if you're a man talking to a woman, if you can see that she is not there to talk to anyone, it's gonna be really hard to try to talk to her. But if you go to a club, it may be a different vibe. And also with celebrities, remember, celebrities are people too. They're just regular people that just do a job that has high exposure. Treat them like if you were at lunch or something and giving them their proper respect before you launch into, I never do this. But, you know how many times, I never do this, but you're doing it now. Try not to give them their space. If they're with their family or something or they're in the middle of a meeting or something, don't disturb them. But if you have an opportunity that looks like it's an opportunity, just pay attention, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, there are more public opportunities for it. Open body language, the celebrities making eye contact with you, they realize, they know you wanna come up and they're acknowledging it. Versus sunglasses, I'm not even paying attention to you, my arms are crossed, just leave me the hell alone. Those signals are universal. They're the girl in the gym signals, they're the guy in the club, it does not matter. There are signals that are, okay, now's a good time to come talk to me and you know what, now's not a good time. But unfortunately a lot of people aren't paying attention to body language, eye contact and those opportunities. Exactly. There's another piece to it too now with all the internet celebrities and what's I'm finding fascinating about it is there's all these YouTube stars who started these channels with commentary or whatever it might be, unboxing. But it was an opportunity for them to do this thing that they enjoyed and speak to people and they're like the most introverted people and now they are mega YouTube stars and they'll always post a video of having to go to VidCon or some YouTube event and they're just terrified of having to walk out in the crowd because they have all these adoring fans that they don't, it's not like they got into this because they wanted that adulation as a lot of actors enjoy having that. Me as a musician, I love to have just played and talked to everyone after the show or to get recognized out. Exactly. That's a completely different thing. Yeah, yeah, the whole internet thing is in social media is such a crazy new revelation in terms of human interaction, you know, it's... And it's happening so fast. It's so fast. We're all, everyone's dealing with it. Trying to catch up to it and trying to stay ahead of it or it's just incredible. And what it's precipitating is this change in reality consumption, right? It's like now the conflict has to be through the roof because that's the only way to draw an eyeball. Exactly. The same thing with the Instagram story, the instant. I need that snapshot of your life. I need to be in the bathroom with Chris Williams and know exactly what he's reading right now. Right. It's that level of like, hey, come on, you know, I am a person too, I need some space. I don't need to show you everything I do. But there are also people who are making themselves celebrity because they're willing to go that extra mile. They're willing to tell you what they're eating and what's going on in the bathroom. And they're slim T. They're willing to sell this slim T to you. Hear the detox like, you know. Here's a great question from Jeff. He wants to know, what are the signs for when someone finds a question uninteresting? Kind of piggybacking a little bit on the celebrity, right? For example, if you're dating someone and ask what do you do for work and they start going through their cookie cutter response, you could try digging in with more thought provoking how or why questions. But if they hate their job and want to leave it at work, I'm wondering if there's, I'm wondering if it's just better to jump ship and move on to the next topic. I feel like he's answering his own question a little bit here. Kind of like start to ask, he's like, oh, maybe I should, I feel like going back to the body language thing, right? There's first the signal from the body language. I don't really want to be talking about this, right? They're expressionless or negative emotion on their face, crossing their arms, kind of closing off, not making eye contact, looking despondent. And then you can tell them the words, right? If they're not adding any color or emotion and one short word answers, then it's probably not the topic they want you drilling down with how and why questions into. But also the questions are important as well. I mean, if you're going to come with rote questions or just things that people say all the time. And I find very few people right now have a job that they're just so over the moon happy with that they just want to share and talk about with everyone right now. I feel like this is pretty much a universal that most people don't want to talk about their job. And I like people look at me and Johnny and I'm sure they look at you and they're like, you have the greatest job in the world. It's so amazing. I want to be you. And when you're living it, when it's your job, you're kind of like, you know, I just want to punch out. Like that's great. I could use a break. It's 6 PM, great. Exactly. So that job topic, I know it's easy, right? It's a low hanging fruit. Very likely. But it leads to boring conversation that most people don't want to have. Exactly. Another recorded question. This audio question is from Trent. Hey, how's it going? My name's Trent Wilkes. I just want to bring up, I've always had a bit of an issue with eye contact. So if I'm going out with a guy, it's like a whiskey or like a rumbar or something like that. And someone's given an eye contact. It's hard for me to sometimes know, you know, if I'm giving her like the heebie-jeebies or if like there's a sense of attraction. So I would love some pointers about that. Thank you so much and goodbye. Well, there's a difference between eye contact and staring at someone. If you stare at anybody long enough, they will get uncomfortable if you just like glaring at them, you know. I think people also just don't trust their gut enough. Like if you're already saying heebie-jeebies, you're feeling it, they're feeling it. Exactly. It is a guttural response. I'm probably staring too long. I'd probably make it too much eye contact. If you're feeling it, that other person is definitely feeling it. Well, we've always said, listen, if somebody's catching your eye, you want to go talk to them, go make your move. Just get it over with. Because the more time you spend looking at that person, the easier it's, you're going to find yourself in heebie-jeebie role. And the flip side is, if you are in heebie-jeebie role, she's not going to make eye contact again. She is not going to glance back over at you and go, hey, look at that heebie-jeebie guy over there. I should probably look more. Most women, they get that feeling, they're like, I am not looking back over there. You can't pay me to look in that guy's direction. So to your point, if you feel maybe there is something, you break eye contact, you come back and there's a glance, then as Johnny said, make your move. You have to make it there immediately. I was always caught up in the whole looking and then make the move and like, but should I? And I look again, you know, not the heebie-jeebie, but then I would be like, well, you talk yourself out of. Yes, you do. Oh, she's behind me. Yeah, she's right here. Oh, and then it gets to, well, now I've blown it. I should have went over there when I had the chance. Or is she looking at me again because she still wants me to do that? It's, you have to make that move. And it's funny, a lot of times, you can tell the attractiveness of a woman too by how much I can't see because you're back. Because some of the most beautiful women will not look at you at all. But some of the other ones will be like, yeah. It's usually the girls you don't want looking at you that'll go crazy eyes on you, right? So here's a question from Johnny and I and it really follows a theme that a lot of our listeners have and obviously it's that fear of rejection. No one wants to be rejected. Rejection is terrifying. You're in a career where it's a part of the game and it's a full contact sport. So I would love to hear some of your mindsets for handling that rejection. You talked a little bit about after the audition you go back to your car like I could have done better. Is there a timeframe you give yourself to go through that process and then table it? How are you handling rejection in your career? As I said, I've done this for 25 years now. And what I've learned is especially in my business I'm a product, I'm a commodity. What am I bringing to the show? So if you wanna hire me, I've been hired because of me and I've been hired because I fit the role. You can't take it personally, if that makes any sense. Even though it's a personal thing, if they want someone else, they want someone else that may have nothing to do with you. And the thing about my business also is you don't know why they rejected you. So they could have rejected you because you were bad. They could have rejected you because they already had a deal with someone else. They could have, you don't know that. So the sooner that you can get it out of your head that it's just not what it's meant to be. And it's a hard thing to own the fact that, especially if you really want something badly and you don't get it, why, why, why, why? But you have to give it, acknowledge it. Acknowledge that feeling. Don't suppress it or, you know. Well, you gotta say, wow, I really wanted that. I really wished it was me. Okay, on to the next thing. Because a lot of times I've found when something doesn't happen, if you were doing that, you would not have gotten this opportunity down here. Sure. So always have a flip side, or you didn't want that job because that job, even though it seemed great, it was a nightmare compared to this job that you just got. And you look back and you go, oh, wow, wow. One of the things that I've learned also in my sagacious age is really taking the time to not waste your energy on things that you have no control over. If you can't control it, why are you getting upset about it? I remember I was, and one of the crystallized times that had happened to me was I was with my sister, we were going flying back to LA from New York. And we both had separate flights. Mine was leaving like 30 minutes before hers. And we were taking the same car together. She was late and I was in the car with her and I'm looking at it. She's gonna make her flight just because she has someone taking her and I'm going, I'm not gonna make my flight. And that whole time down there, I'm rocking on my seat and I'm upset. And I'm like, God, what am I gonna do now? I gotta do this, I gotta do this. And I'm so upset and I'm like, you know what? You can't make the traffic go away. You can't make this car go faster. You can't just, if you make it, you make it. If you don't, you don't. And I remember I was like, I just gave it up and they dropped her off first, of course. And then I got dropped off and I just like, you know, didn't lolly gag, but you know, I did my stuff and I made the flight. And I was like, wow, all of that wasted energy, all of that stress and gnawing of the teeth and sweating, that was all wasted energy. Why get upset about something you can't control? And I was like, oh wow, now it's hard to keep that into practice because you'll get triggered by something right away. But the more that you can know that if you can control it or if you're in control of it, that's what you can do. But if it has nothing to do with you, let it go. Try to let it go as much as possible. So as from rejection standpoint, if I don't get something and someone else got it, I can't stress over it. I'll get mine. And I was on a TV show, just coming off a TV series, just shot a big pilot and was on two recurrence on something. And I was like, well, it's just, you know, what's the next job for me? It's coming up. I didn't work for six months in anything. And I'm going like, and I have a long career of, you know, solid work. And I did not work for six months. And you only got a mortgage and you try to get uncomfortable. But I was like, okay, you know what? But you'll get a job, it will come. You keep doing what you're doing and you'll get a job. And then I went on a big role. And then after I got one job, then I got, but that's also the part of this business is I call it right in the wave. It's just like surfing. Acting is just like surfing to me where you go out on your paddle, you get a good board, you're in shape, you're ready. You know, you've been done enough stuff and you wait for your wave. And your wave may come, you may see other people right in there, the big wave, but you try to get up and if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But you'll get your wave. But in the meantime, enjoy the sun, enjoy being out on your board and just, you know, try to make the best. And with that metaphor, right? And then what happens in the wave, you get thrown into the ocean, right? So you can't ride the wave too long. You gotta realize that it's an opportunity to make the most of it and there'll be more. Your long game, and I think going in with the mindset is, as long as I do the best I can, and I nail this, even if I don't get this role, hey, that person on the other end, they saw something in me, they saw me bring it, there are other roles down the pipe. Silicon Valley, I read from Mike Jott, Mike Judge for Idiocracy, which was 12 to 13 years ago? Sure. That movie, and Terry Crews became President Camacho. I was just gonna ask you for that role. I read for Camacho, you know, and I thought I did a great job, but Terry Crews is President Camacho. I mean, you look at Terry Crews and you're like, oh, well, there you go, that's what it is. And Mike, and when I put myself on tape for Hoover, he said, I remember you from your audition. So it just goes to show you, you're like, oh, wow, you know, people do pay attention if you're doing what you can control and the best that you can. And you never know, you never know when people are watching. And this is another thing of, you know, in today's day and age, the having to go out and build resiliency, isn't what, it wasn't a family, or like a parental thing that they made you do when you're 20, 30 years ago. It's like, you need to go out, you need to play on a sports team, you need to get knocked around a bit, you need to take some lumps, and you need to build that resiliency as a young child. We're just not seeing that too much in today's, how children are being raised. In fact, it seems like they're just wrapped in bubble wrap and nothing can happen to them. And of course we're seeing when they are now on the world, the idea of rejection, not getting a job is like terrifying. That is, that is. This is awesome, Chris. Oh, thanks so much. That's so much fun, guys. Although I'm not sure John and I are gonna be able to get the Miss America image out of our head of you, we're in the Tierra. And we may show you our magic trick of letting some Tolbarone disappear. Yes, so thank you for stopping by. Thanks for having me, guys. Awesome information for our listeners, handling rejection, breaking that ice, it was a lot of fun. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you.