 We want to welcome John, who really is one of the, perhaps the bravest, the most significant film maker, journalist, author, critic that I've stated to 20 films, documentaries, I've probably got my mental arithmetic slightly incorrect, as many books. So welcome to Politics and the Pardon, particularly welcome to John. I want to start the conversation with two particular dates in mind, John. One is 2009, when he won the very significant Sydney Peace Prize, and followed in the steps of people like Archbishop Tutu, Mary Robinson, Bill Dean, Patrick Dodson, Hans Blix and Aaron Darcy Roy, and the wonderful Palestinian leader Dr. Hanan Ashrawi. So that's one date. The other date I have in mind, John, is 1821, almost 200 years before that, when another significant person arrived in Australia, but in Legons from Ireland. Your great, great, great grandfather, to be punished for insurrection and uttering unlawful oaths. Now, I mean, John has been uttering unlawful oaths for over 70 years. I just wonder if you think the legacy of that great, great grandfather has given you the guts and the skills to do what you do? Well, I think it's interesting the uttering unlawful oaths was the same charge the 12 bottle martyrs got, but I think Francis McCarthy, who is my great, great, great grandfather, was really objecting to starving to death, as a lot of Irish people then were. And I traced the records of his trial in Cork, and he did make quite a spirited speech about not going to Australia, which I thought was quite significant. But he did go, and the good news that he married another convict, Mary Palmer, the two of them lived incredibly to almost 90, and had about a dozen children, several of whom died. But the fact that they survived was quite extraordinary. She arrived at the age of 17. She was only, she was called a prostitute in the trial report in the London Gazette. She was an Irish below stairs woman and was sacked from a number of jobs. She went on the streets as part of an old female gang. They used to rob their prospective clients before any transaction could happen. How come they did it afterwards, John? Well, they may have done it afterwards a lot, but anyway, poor Mary, she ended up, she was only spared the noose at Ugate prison because she was pregnant. And the extraordinary thing is both of them survived the trip out. So that's the history. How much of that has tripped down to me? I don't know, but I must say, if we can be proud of a bit of history, I think I'm proud of both.