 Just to summarize what you said, because we went through a lot of things, one of the things that you could compare from back in the Soviet era was that health care was always within reach, and you never really had to worry about the cost. And that's one thing. So poly clinic, as I understand it's a primary care clinic. Is that right. Yeah, so, so that's what the first unit sort of of care. The first unit. Yeah, so we equated with primary care system. So that's what's been missing now since the post Soviet era right the lack of primary care and that leads to increased hospitalizations because a lot of neglected health issues. They're still under utilizing hospital hospitals compared to other averages in the region. So it's not just preventive care it's just for profit care that's the problem. It's the healthcare system set up to be based on who can pay you know so that the only sort of the demand for healthcare to meet that supply that so if you don't have so you don't have the ability to pay. If you don't have the ability to also navigate this incredibly complex world of healthcare that's set up by lots of fraudulent get rich quick schemes kind of place is also a problem. So before you had a guide to help you understand healthcare, your poly clinic. Now that's over, you're no longer tied to a neighborhood poly clinic you can choose your primary care now they called a family doctor which is like American system. So you're like you can choose your family doctor so that means there's going to be tons of family doctors are trying to make money off you and so on and so on. And there's also no monopoly regulations like the people who have the insurance also or close to the insurance companies in reality that own the pharmacies and then they own the hospitals and the primary care. So, and I know this because you can actually go and read the reports where they say this themselves that. Oh, we are business model is great keeps growing because now we do referrals to the hospital so our primary care we buy all the politics up, you know, although, then they are doctors tell them to go to our hospitals and then go to our pharmacies. Right. So, so it's really, it's really insane really the like how this even continues to go on is mind blowing. So, a person doesn't know anything, they will go, they will be told they need to get these and these things. They will go and get them because they're afraid they don't understand they could die or something or have worse problems so of course they're going to sort of be there sort of taken hostage by the system. And this right you know brings up their cost. And that's what the government was paying but now they're only paying partially and if you make a certain amount of makeup they're not paying. You're supposed to get private insurance so it's a really unsustainable model altogether. No one is healthy because of this this literally shows in every possible way that people are much less healthy now than they were before. Interesting. And so you mentioned before about the nurses. Is there anything more you could tell us about the nurses like we want to hear the voice of Georgia nurses. One of the ways to show how this profit system doesn't work is to show how there's been an incredible decline in nurses. So, instead of having the reverse of having 34 nurses per doctor, you have 34 doctors per nurse. We know, I mean, you know, I know. PHM knows that nurses are, you know, the building block of good healthcare, right, without not just nurses but healthcare workers, like having lots of doctors does not make the system automatically better healthcare like doesn't give you like better outcomes. You really need the support staff so the invisible what they call like invisible labor in this sense because nobody sees this a lot is the support staff. So doctor comes in for like maybe two minutes, you know, but the rest of it is being done by the support healthcare support, including nurses and orderlies and so on janitors. Because the way since breakdown Soviet Union nurses as a profession degraded. Nobody cares about nurses anymore. So if you go to a completely profit system, even if they didn't sell off the hospitals at first in the 90s, the hospitals were like a marketplace. They're called public, but they're all private doctors. So you go in and you have to sort of buy health care from the doctors. They're just many of them in one area. So it's actually not a public hospital. It's bizarre like you go to a market, you know, have different sellers under one roof that could be owned by anybody. So this is what in the 90s it looked like. So you, you go this place and like I've read I've read some like horrific reports of like for foreign like investigators the right for some of some of the health reforms, being like outrageous people just like dying on the floor like you don't have money they're like we don't care. So nobody wants to be a nurse because you pay the doctor directly. And someone's like, Oh, I'm going to be a doctor, not a nurse, because that way I can make money. Nurse works for a doctor. So if you get so the doctor gets paid like say per patient, you know per service fee and so on. The nurse gets a tiny part of that. So the demand for doctors medical doctor degree increases because people won't have be able to have money and you know profession where you're not the lowest level you know market workers make more than nurses here you know like grocery store workers make more than nurses completely degraded profession incredible amount of stress and responsibility, and yet absolutely, you know, no, no support no sustainability no money nothing. People leave the nursing profession, and just in general lab lab workers technicians they all leave they all want to be doctors. So you have this incredible rise in doctors and a drop in nurses. And the doctors also do it because then they can also try to go abroad and like, you know, to Germany or what wherever whatever nurses also can and they actually are being recruited as well. So the nurse becomes more invisible so I argue that when like regarding women's work and so the support work post Soviet or pro market development has made what is considered more feminized work like nursing or taking care care work has hidden it more degraded it more, and also because of more outpatient and also not going at all to the doctor has increased a workload for women at home. So then, you know, women have to take care of their mothers or fathers or husbands or whoever, because the hospital won't, or they can't afford to put them in in other care. So, this is for me privatization of health care, though they say this is more efficient actually has set back the visibility of women's work. And nurses are actually even even better condition because we start getting paid nothing but it's still like shows that like they actually do work, because women who do all the care work don't get paid at all. Like who takes care of that rest at home for five days or whatever when the doctor tells you, that's, that's women who take care of them. And so they are they've become even more vulnerable, especially in conditions of no labor code or very weakening labor code, especially in 90s and 2000s, where you don't have time off medically from work, you do now, but it's still like just one and like strengthening as far as labor code goes. So a woman would have to miss work and not get paid or be afraid of even losing her job to take care of her family members. And as somebody who's a housework like a informal worker in a market or so, or a domestic worker like, you know, informal as well. Or just a regular house, housewife will be doing extra work without any kind of compensation at all. So for nursing, I think it's been one of the worst things that happened to the nursing profession is that so they have like professionalized. So they make doctors more important in the sense. They've moved them up from being just workers under the Soviet Union to now sort of middle class. But they actually have degraded nurses, leaving all the other workers behind. Yeah. Understood. So, thanks for sharing that. What, what can we look forward to, you know, in the near future with regard to healthcare in Georgia. Any positive news? Looking really bad. They just one of our I consider one of our victories after so much of our of our unfortunately, we couldn't do it like strikes or anything but a lot of our worker advocacy and work that we have done over the years, especially during pandemic, the government just issued a minimum wage for for nurses, which is not a lot but it's still pretty much better like people's like income, especially in the regions like tripled and quadrupled. We're getting such low pay so it's not like it's not great but it's like it's like $200 or something 250 300 something like that, but like, but they were making like less than 100 so for a lot of people, especially nurses in the regions were the most neglected and abused. They really felt the increase. But it's really bad, mostly it's nurses are trained here. And then they will leave, most of them will leave even the either they will leave leave for another country to be a nurse there, or they will leave the profession because it's so horrible, and choose something else. And so, it's a very vulnerable position for a profession and this minimum wage is not enough to reverse the trends. We need to strengthen to make sure that Georgia, especially because we were just on like some kind of list, I don't know if it's like the red list of like countries where you shouldn't recruit from but I think we're like close to that. Yeah, yeah, I don't think we should have any recruitment I think nurses should be given, you know, so much money, I think to actually start fixing our health care that should be one of the first steps we take. And it's just to read, you know, nationalize a lot of these private places I would totally get rid of the private sector, or at least limited to a certain level. Before even making it like free for everybody as far as like the price for the insurance because we saw what just happened. Definitely nationalization increase in wages and also just coordination it's a chaotic system it's straight up like a market where everyone's just trying to make money as much as possible knowing that the population is really sick. It's a model that once people sick, lots of elderly lots of sick people, of course of praying, we have one of the highest the Syrian rates, Syrian section, like, it's like 45% or something. And, and it's funny because even the most like, like health, well, health experts who generally favor the market, even they're like, I think this is because of money. Even they come to those conclusions now that where you don't, there's no justification for that kind of high cesarean rates, just no justification. You have like, needless enter intervention, I've seen it too they scared my sister told her that it was dangerous to give vaginal birth, completely twist her head and she says she was she was worried that we're going to kill her baby and hurt her baby, that C section was the best thing for the child. I could not even talk her out of it because she's like the experts are telling me, they've been told how to get. You still have to like make it official whiteness C section, you know, I told her to go get her eyes checked to make sure that you can justify to make sure that her eyes were in bad shape that like, this like vaginal birth would blind her and just like whole scheme of how to make sure she had a C section. And of course C sections are much, much more expensive, and also much more convenient for the doctor you schedule it you go in two seconds and you're out. So, yeah, of course, you know the side effects of having only profit care is having, you know, really needless interventions C section and of course we see section we know that's dangerous could be even more dangerous especially to get subsequent ones. It hinders, or it can actually hinder breastfeeding bonding, you have to recover from childbirth and, you know, major surgery, and it's really hard on your body it's absolutely not necessary. But it also probably relates back to you know the lack of health workers to take care of normal birth. If there were more doctors and nurses, probably if one doctor has to go then you know there's another doctor in the house we can look after the woman so they don't have to force a C section. It's you know, like a chicken and egg question, which is which it just goes around and around. So, I guess like you just said before it's with the experience of the nurses in Georgia, the minimum wage was a good progress but it's not enough. It's not just about the money, you need to improve the whole system whole health system to actually encourage them otherwise it would just give them more resources to leave. Yeah. So, thank you. Thank you very much so both for sharing your experience and the experience of the health workers in Georgia. With close the interview here and give our regards from phm to all the health workers in Georgia. I will. Thank you. Bye.