 Good morning. Welcome to CSS. I'm John Alderman, the Senior Vice President of the Brzezinski Chair in Global Security and Geostrategy, and most importantly for this program, the Director of the Middle East Program. It is my great honor and pleasure to introduce to you the Foreign Minister of Algeria, Rantan de Mamre, has served as a Minister of Foreign Affairs since September 2013. He has served his country with distinction in a number of key diplomatic posts in the U.S. and Africa as well as in international agencies. He previously was elected and served as the African Union's Commissioner for Peace and Security. As Commissioner, he led the AU's efforts to resolve local conflicts, including the crisis in Libya. If you're looking for a new job, I think that crisis has not yet resolved. Prior to taking up his position at the AU, Ambassador de Mamre served as Secretary General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. From 1996 to 1999, he represented Algeria as the Ambassador to the U.S. after serving for three years as the permanent representative at the United Nations. From 1992 to 1993, Ambassador de Mamre served as Chairman of the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency. He graduated from Algeria's National School of Administration in 1976. We have a lot of key issues for the United States that pass through Algeria. Algeria has a useful role. Algeria has its own concerns and issues. We are delighted the Foreign Minister is here to talk with us about them. I understand that there is enough to keep us through lunch, but he's going to try to just give a short overview to start with and then we'll open it up for discussion. So I give you Ambassador de Mamre. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you, John, for those kind words. You may have guessed from what he said that having been appointed for a minister a year ago, I needed to come here for my graduation. So I was just a trainee for a minister for the last year. So now has come the time for me to get my diploma from this prestigious institution. So thank you for giving me this opportunity to interact with such a group of friends interested in the dynamics developing in our region. The topic, of course, you have it in front of you, but I would like to frame it in such a way that it reflects more what I thought I would have to say. I would suggest that you would allow me to have this discussion centered around Algeria's key role in the Maghreb and Sahel regions as a security-providing country. First, I believe that Algeria and the U.S., because I was supposed to say a few things about bilateral relationship, but I would just overfly the rich common heritage with the U.S. in bilateral relations merely by pointing to few things. First, Algeria and the U.S. have been sharing values relating to independent self-determination. A city like Al Qaeda in the Iowa state refers precisely to that convergence of values. Algeria and GFK, of course, it is well known that as senator in 1957, he stood up in Congress and spoke openly for the independence of Algeria, ignoring, of course, voluntarily the interest of a NATO ally that was France. So we highly appreciated that. And some of the public squares in Algeria named after him are testimony to the gratitude that the Algerian people feel towards GFK. And then Algeria and the U.S. have been joining hands in bringing about in 1979, 1980, a peaceful end to the 444 days of the crisis of the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, Iran, where 52 diplomats, as you know, have been kept hostage for all that month of time. Algeria and the U.S. are sharing strategic interests, building a strategic dialogue launched two, three years ago on a large spectrum of key international and regional issues, including an effective and action-oriented counterterrorism cooperation. I would suggest to you a few key factors of Algeria's, what they would call Algeria's leadership features. They have to be found, obviously, in the geography and history, in the culture, and in the way the Algerian people interact with their partners. First, geographically speaking, you all know Algeria is located at the crossroads between Africa, Middle East, and Western Europe. It has the largest territory in the continent of Africa as well as in the Arab world. It's a country of 38 million inhabitants, which is endowed with huge and diverse energy, mineral and other natural resources. It is a peaceful country, deeply attached, peaceful people as well, deeply attached to their identity, which is, as you know, Arab, Berber, and essentially Muslim people. And I believe for having paid a high ransom to reach independence, it is not only peaceful, but it is also a moderate nation which follows moderate Sunni Islamic teaching. And of course, as you all know, Algeria has led a heroic liberation struggle that nurtures even now a never-growing prestige and soft power with a number of people. Algeria has resolutely adopted and practiced a good neighborhood policy with all our neighbors. As a matter of fact, we have in the 70s when President Bouteflika was the foreign minister, developed a practice of concluding treaties of what we call brotherhood, good neighborliness, and cooperation with all our friends and neighbors. And that has been extended even to some of our southern European partners and friends, concluding treaties with Portugal, Spain, and Italy named friendship, cooperation, and good neighborliness. So as you all know, Algeria has mediated or helped resolve peacefully a number of international disputes and disputes and crises. And I would suggest also that Algeria has, in strategic terms, defeated terrorism. And it is currently developing a vibrant, multi-party democracy outside of the so-called Arab Spring phenomenon. Obviously, Algeria enjoys a high quality, well-experienced, moderate, broad and forward-looking leadership. And President Ablaziz Bouteflika, who has served Algeria as foreign minister for 14 years and who has been deeply involved in international affairs. And he has a very extensive knowledge of the dynamics of international relations as well as history. Algeria in the Sahel first. Algeria is a Sahelian nation indeed. Not only we share with Mali and Niger borders, which amounts to 2,500 kilometers, but our own national territory is partly a Sahelian territory. We did practice, and we continue to do so, a policy of zero bilateral problems with our Sahelian fellow African countries. Our relations with all our Sahelian neighbors are just excellent. We share with them similar hardships. We acknowledge closeness of the people through the borders, including nomadic populations of the same ethnic and cultural backgrounds. Algeria does display effective solidarity in the face of drug, famine, insecurity, organized crime, terrorism that affect those neighboring countries. We do practice or we do abide by principle of non-interference and non-intervention in internal affairs of our neighboring countries. And obviously the principle does not and cannot translate into some sort of indifference to abnormal and threatening challenges developing here and there in our immediate neighborhood. Algeria has a key regional actor in the Sahel. Algeria has an active contribution in efforts aiming at operationalizing the African Union peace and security architecture in the Sahel geostrategic space. It is called the Nwakshot process. It involves political, military, intelligence, economic, and environmental components. Algeria has been a leading partner in building the Nwakshot process. And Nwakshot process, we believe, is very promising in terms of empowering the regional countries to take fully charge of their requirements of their security. Algeria currently is the lead mediator within a mega mediation on peace in Mali. The process is currently underway in Algiers. It has already achieved some initial results, a roadmap for the entire process which codifies the principles that should govern the negotiations that has time frame as well as defines the mediation and the parties declaration on cessation of hostilities. Both important documents were concluded back on the 24th of July this year. Negotiations now in Algiers take place within four negotiating groups, political and institutional issues, defense and security, economic, social, and cultural issues, humanitarian situation, transitional justice, and national reconciliation. A creative and effective mediation mechanism was put in place. It provides for Algeria taking the lead, plus four countries in the region having direct stakes in the process, that is Burkina Faso, Mauritania, Niger, and Chad, and five international organizations deeply involved, the United Nations through MINUSMA led by Berth Condors, the African Union, the ECOWAS, the European Union, and the Organization of Islamic Cooperation. As it stands, there is no room for forum shopping, maneuvering room left to some potential spoilers. As you can imagine, there are some who are well known and others who can be tempted in the course of events to resort to some delaying tactics, but we are fairly optimistic and will proceed with this very important and challenging task. Algeria in the Maghreb. First, as you all know, and I salute my friend, the ambassador of Tunisia for being here. Algeria is the central Maghreb. It was named this way throughout history and today geography assigns to Algeria that location. It is the only country sharing borders with all the other Maghrebian countries. It is the largest in terms of space. It is the most populated. Algeria has a deep commitment to the unity of the people of our region, Maghreb. Algeria displays strong solidarity, mutual respect to all the people of the region. We do acknowledge that we can and we do have differences of views on a number of important issues. We can have also conflicting interests, but those should not, cannot lead to unilateral actions or leaps into the unknown. We believe that wisdom should always prevail as the unity of destiny of all our people engage us to do our utmost to resolve peacefully our differences, whatever their nature and their seriousness could be. Of course, our region, like many other regions, has tried to move towards integration. We have established the UMMA, the Union of the Arab Maghreb. It is an integration tool which, let me be very frank about it, which has not been made in a position to fulfill its potential. So for the last 25 years, the UMMA was there. A big number of agreements, sectoral integration documents have been concluded, but very few things have actually materialized on the ground or changed the lives of the people in the region. One of the reasons perhaps of this, not necessarily the first or the one that has direct bearing on the situation, is the conflict in the Western Sahara. This is a conflict that may be forgotten to some, but it's a highly sensitive issue of principle to others. It's also a test for the UN credibility and when we say UN, it includes those who are making decisions in the U.S., the five permanent members, and the Security Council as a whole. Test of credibility vis-à-vis the UN own decolonization doctrine and human rights creed. As far as Algeria is concerned, it is well known that we have been supporting the right of self-determination for the Saharawi people since the times when the territory was under Spanish rule. We have not changed our position on that. It's a position of principle. And also, from humanitarian point of view, Algeria is a host to over 1,065,165,000 Saharawi refugees. As you know, many distinguished U.S. statesmen, diplomats, have been called to help and to lead the UN process, including James Baker. And today, Ambassador Christopher Ross is the personal envoy of the UN Secretary General, and he enjoys strong support on the part of my country. Tunisia. Tunisia will be completing political transition within the next few months. Before the end of the year, Algeria displays a very strong and brotherly solidarity with Tunisia. The elections, the parliamentary election due to take place during the last part of the month of October and the presidential election a month later, Algeria has been working very closely with the transitional government supporting its economic and financial program and also cooperating very closely with the Tunisian authorities in implementation of their counterterrorism and security plan of action, including border control. Mauritania. With Mauritania, Algeria enjoys an excellent level of friendship, mutual confidence and trust. Libya. Libya is very, very close to the Algerian people. You may know that the Senusi dynasty, which founded modern Libya and ruled the country until 1969 when it was overthrown by Qaddafi. That dynasty went to Libya from Algeria, from Mostangan in the western part of Algeria. So they still have their roots in Algeria. We are not pleading for restoration of monarchy as part of the solution, but it's worthwhile knowing that Algeria has vested interest in the political future of our sisterly Libya. There are tremendous challenges and problems ahead of the Libyan brotherly people. I would say that Libya does not qualify to be called a failed country. It's a country with tremendous problems, but certainly not a failed country. It has vibrant actors. It has big potential to recover and we believe that it's worthwhile believing and working hard to help the Libyans fulfill their God-given potential. The Libyan problem should be resolved by the Libyans themselves, obviously, within an all-inclusive national dialogue. All-inclusive means necessarily excluding few, and I would refer to the groups, the persons who are well known to be part of international terror groups. The objective, the purpose of such a dialogue, should be a genuine national reconciliation and constitution making, a constitutional making process which would lead to ending peacefully and democratically the transition. It is possible. We need to be working hard to achieve just that. You have certainly heard Algerian officials voicing our strong opposition to foreign intervention, military intervention in the country, to interferences that would lead to adding complexity instead of helping to resolve the problem. We do know that the problems are intertwined. They are complex, but with people aspiring to frame a common future, the way they have successfully led their fight to put an end to the Qaddafi regime, we believe that that is possible. Today, as we look at situations, there are a number of key issues affecting Libya. First, the nature of the crisis, we need to be very clear about it. And of course, if we know clearly, understand clearly the nature of the crisis, we would know also about the nature of the solution. For us, it's an internal issue with international dimensions, obviously, terrorism being a aggravating factor, illegal immigration, other set of trans-border crime, but the situation basically remains an issue of governance and security affecting the Libyans themselves. So that is what I should call the security emergency in the country. I believe that Security Council resolutions have defined the framework for putting together a ceasefire that would be lasting, for putting an end to the providing of ammunition, weapons, spare parts. The resolution, I think, speaks very clearly about all these aspects. The third dimension would be to resolve the institutional dimension of the crisis. As you know, today we have two parliaments, we have two governments and several armies in the country. Of course, not all of them enjoy the same level of legality, but when it comes to legitimacy, I think it would be fulfilled once everybody would reach out to others and they would sit together and try to take the decisions that would generate quietness and the willingness to compromise on problems that should not be obstacles to a genuine reconciliation. So the parliament, of course, elected, which has taken its provisional headquarters in Tobruk, is legal and we have to try to extract from this parliament all the measures, including in particular the abolition of the law passed by the previous congress on the exclusion of all the people who have been working for Qaddafi for 42 years at a certain level. We believe that that has generated frustrations and that has led also to adding to the violence which was brought from the outside. So democracy, legality, legitimacy should be key in all our interactions with Libyans instead of thinking in military terms and in militias here and there to be reinforced by foreign aid. We believe that those countries which intend to conduct proxy wars and to express their rivalries on the territory of Libya should refrain from doing so. Algeria has been requested by a number of key personalities and entities in Libya to offer its good offices and to host some initial phase of a national dialogue. And as you know, Algeria, together with all the countries which share borders with Libya, that is Egypt, Sudan, Chad, Niger, Tunisia and Algeria itself, we have established a group of the neighboring countries in the month of May this year. It has had four ministerial meetings up to now and it has developed a plan of action to help and to assist the Libyans to bring about peace and stability and security for their countries. So for their countries. So the group of friends of France of Libya but of neighbors of Libya because we are more than friends, believes that it should be an integral part of all international efforts aiming at helping the Libyans to surmount the current crisis. There is a need indeed for harmonizing national, regional, international peacemaking initiatives as far as Libya is concerned. I believe that the meeting that took place a few days ago in Madrid bringing together the Libyan acting government or transitional government with five plus five and the number of neighbors or all the members of the neighbors of Libya actually succeeded to put down in its conclusions a number of key guiding principles and objectives to help resolve the problem. As you know within a few days there will be New York another meeting bringing together a set of very influential states. Let's put it this way in addition to the neighbors, the influential being those who have also some direct or indirect contributions in the status quo. So that would be very important and it will be chaired by John Kerry. I understand the U.S. Secretary General also will be having some side event during the first week of the General Assembly that is later next week. So as far as Algeria is concerned we will do everything possible. I think it's our duty towards the Libyan brothers to help bring together all those Libyans who can make a difference through a dialogue putting aside their differences, their ambitions, their ideologies and focusing and of course condemning and considering and rejecting violence and terrorism, accepting pluralism and democratic processes to gain access to political power. Those Libyans will be since that is their wish most welcome in Algeria to sit together and to lay the foundations for a more comprehensive dialogue that hopefully will take place in Libya itself within or around the legal institutions that they have put together. We believe that the key to this process would be sharing power, sharing wealth among all Libyans and obviously providing immediately security to all. That should be the agenda of the day for Libya for the international community and it is certainly high on the agenda of the Algerian diplomatic effort. I thank you for your attention. Mr. Minister, thank you very much for those comments. You have a busy job. I appreciate your taking the time to see us. Am I graduated? You will tell me at the end. If I had a diploma, I'd give you one. I want to open it up to questions as I recognize people. I'd be grateful if you would identify yourself if you would ask only one question until we've had a chance to go around and if you would genuinely ask a question rather than making a statement and saying to the minister what do you think of my statement because that is really my pet peeve. Let me start if I may. I'm John Alterman. I run the Middle East program here. You mentioned in passing the relationship with Morocco which I think from a U.S. perspective it's frustrating that it's not been better. Farm ministers in my experience are trained to be optimists so if you would tell us what is actually going well in this relationship, the Moroccan-Algerian relationship that people in Washington don't know enough about, where's the good news in that relationship? We are the same people. The Algerian and Moroccan people are the same. They share everything and I believe that they are mature enough to know that differences are there and they can be resolved peacefully in a civilized way. There are a number of plans of action resolutions which have been put together and there should be at a certain point to be implemented. But I don't think that it would be fair to encourage the vision of bilateral problem of inability of two neighboring countries that are there that have been together for ages to live together or to develop a shared vision of the future. I think there is a difference on a very important aspect of international relations. It's a legal issue. It's a moral issue. It's also a strategic issue. It affects security in the region and whether if you want to be realistic I think it also affects the prospects for integration in our region. Now if you ask me whether there are solutions to that and I think that is the optimistic part in the work of the Foreign Ministry. I would tell you no problem cannot find the solution provided that the required political will is made available by key actors. And on this one obviously the leadership of the Polisario France, the Sahrawi movement which is standing and leading the struggle for self-determination, have shown that they believe that there is a need to sit together and to look at the future and to be guided of course by international international law, the principles of the United Nations. But we don't believe that everything has to be frozen until such a time when the much needed and the much awaited solution to the Western Sahara issue happens on the ground. We could revive the Maghreb Union. We could improve the bilateral relations between the two countries. We don't have, as far as Algeria is concerned, any linkage with the Western Sahara issue. We are there to express freely our views in the democratic setting and at the same time to develop and to pursue shared interests with all including Morocco obviously. I turn to you. We have a microphone coming, if you would. My name is Charles Dahan. I'm from Morocco. I grew up with also Algerian. I had family from Algeria. Same people. So we are the same people. I just want to follow up on the question about Morocco. I know as a Moroccan I look at Algeria as a brotherhood and a good neighbor. And the question that I have hard, that it's hard to understand is why the border is closed, why there is this tension that could be resolved if everybody, if all the parties would sit down as, do we need a family counselor? You know, as a diplomat I always try to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. So I can tell you about the history of the border. I can tell you the Algerian side of the story. It's quite convincing, believe me. But now we should look at the future. And you can say that the two governments at certain point not long ago have decided to discuss systematically a number of problems that whose solution would lead to the opening of the ground border because we are talking about ground border. Others are open. I mean, the trade between Algeria and Morocco, by the way, is higher than the trade by Morocco with most of the African countries. So the trade is going on. It would be wrong to have the perception that everything is frozen in the relations between the countries. No. There are still people engaging and getting married to, from both sides. So don't worry. I mean, life continues now. But these are serious issues. They involve security, economic interest, and so on. And we believe that if the technical working groups which the two governments have established were allowed to work, to complete their work, and to make recommendations, and if, of course, those recommendations were accepted by both governments, there would have been a solution to the border situation. So it's not something that is to remain closed forever. But I would not also be telling you the truth if I tell you that I can see an immediate prospect for that because the work has not been completed. Thank you, Mr. Minister. It's great to have you here at CSIS. I'm Chai Malkam, senior fellow with the CSIS Middle East program. Earlier, before your presentation, we were talking about how the Maghreb is interacted with the Middle East, the broader Middle East, in many more ways than people recognize or understand. And you spoke about the Maghreb and the Sahel, but I wanted to ask you about what's going on farther to the east in Syria and now Iraq, and the attraction of many young North Africans going to fight in the Jihad in Syria and Iraq. And we hear about the Tunisians, the high number of Tunisians, the high number of Moroccans. Can you tell us a little bit about the numbers, your assessment of the numbers of Algerians that are going to fight with the Jihadi groups in Syria and Iraq, and then what impact that will have on Algeria and the Maghreb more broadly when they start to return? Thank you. Well, I think we, all of us in North Africa, in the Maghreb, we feel very much involved in the Middle Eastern issues. We certainly share the feelings of our Palestinian brothers, especially this summer, the 51 days of bombing and the tragedy that has developed. Most of our people in the streets of Algeria and elsewhere have been demonstrating and have been showing their full solidarity with the Palestinians. And it has a link with your question, because most of these extremist groups were born out of frustration and directly or indirectly they have a link with the Palestinian issue. So if we want to handle seriously this issue, let us join hands and work very seriously to bring about a lasting peace in the Middle East with the two states living side by side, peacefully, as you know. So that is the first answer. Focusing on individuals participating in this terrible adventure is one way of looking at it, and it's quite understandable for the intelligence community here and there for all of us. After all, Ministers of Foreign Affairs are in charge of managing their communities abroad, so we need to know what our people are doing outside of our borders. But obviously this is a phenomenon that is linked to deeply rooted causes and you need to address the underlying causes if you were to resolve the problem. So jihadism is well known. I mean, it has become very famous and a phenomenon of big magnitude during the Afghanistan war. We know all how did it develop, and most of the terrorists then who came back to Algeria carrying proudly the name al-Afghani attached to their first name were responsible for the tragedy in Algeria. So clearly foreign combatants, foreign terrorists coming back to their national countries is a very serious danger, and it has to be taken that way. I believe, I cannot be 100 percent certain, I believe that the Algerians have come to realize that terrorism does not have future, that extremism will be defeated at one point. I think it has been defeated in Algeria. If you look today at elections, you will see that those moderate Islamist parties, some of them have even colleagues in the cabinet, in the government sitting next to me, but they are decreasing in terms of share in the electorate. They are losing seats, they are losing in terms of voices that they, ballots that they collect within the people. I think this is a reaction by the Algerian people to what they have seen in our own recent history, and that is likely to develop also elsewhere throughout the Arab world, given the magnitude of the crimes which are attached directly or indirectly to the ideology that nurtures Islam. So if you're asking me about numbers, from Algeria it's in the hundreds, few hundreds, it's not three, four hundred people. But the phenomenon has, I think, now a very, very far-reaching significance with the non-Arab people, citizens who are now attracted in this dangerous adventure. I think in the past, people tended to say that it was among the North African communities, let's call this with Europe, that these extremist groups could hire people, although they carry citizenship from those European countries, but they are still linked to their countries of origin. But now you have people whose origin is European or American and who are attracted to extremism, and you see the way they behave in these horrendous killings that they commit in front of cameras. So I believe that it is an issue for everybody now. Obviously I should have said it before anything else, terrorism is not inherent to any religion or to any country in particular. Terrorism is terrorism and a number of factors lead to that, including marginalization, frustration, lack of education, lack of opportunity, you name it. So one has to take a very broad vision at this phenomenon. But I share of course the concern that when these people come back to our countries, it's definitely a major problem. Just to pick up, do you have a sense for how many Algerians may be active fighting in Libya and how many Libyans maybe who are militants are finding refuge in border areas of Algeria? It seems to me that the Algerian terrorists are Francophone. They tend to be seen in the Sahel region more than in the Middle East. It seems to me. But yes, we do have some in Libya and Tunisia. There are some Algerian terrorists in both Libya and Tunisia. And any spillover back into Algerian territory in your judgment? Well, here again, it's impossible to certify that a border, a land border in Saharan landscape can be closed hermetically. But I think we are just trying to achieve that. The means and resources that the Algerian government has mobilized to that effect is just beyond any calculation. I mean, you cannot tell you about the numbers and the resources and the logistics that are involved. And that is why, quite frankly, we say that we want to be seen and to be felt as a security and stability provider in our region. If you consider that Algeria has 7,200 kilometers to monitor and that most borders are not quite, they are quite animated, it shows the degree of mobilization of the security apparatus, the armed forces, and also the sacrifices which are made in terms of budget appropriations, resources and so on. So it's the fight against terrorism is one of our priorities. And they believe that we have, we are very much encouraged by the results that we have achieved at home. And therefore believe that there is no reason why our immediate neighboring countries could not succeed in defeating terrorism. But they will have to make sacrifice as well. Thank you. Mr. Minister, welcome back to Washington. It's nice to have you here again. John, thank you CSIS for hosting this. My name is Gary Smith. I'm with the law firm Foley-Hoag and I previously in the Clinton administration served at the State Department. Algeria has shown significant regional leadership with respect to resolving the crisis in Mali in supporting international human rights standards with respect to the rights of the Saharawea to self-determination and most recently with respect to the crisis in Libya. I know that you will be meeting with Secretary Kerry and I wonder in your mind what is the most constructive role that the U.S. government can play in helping, working with Algeria to resolve the crisis in Libya and to ensure that the Saharawea's rights to self-determination are protected through the United Nations and other international organizations. Well, I have already seen Secretary Kerry last night, so if you have a good piece of advice, I'll be seeing him again in New York, so please share it with me. You can be helpful, Gary. Not quite frankly, the partnership that Algeria is developing with the U.S. is an all-encompassing partnership. It's a strategic dialogue. Secretary Kerry was in Algeria back in April. He has had extensive discussions with President Bouteflika, who has developed in front of him his vision of our region as well as the vision of extremism and all these things, and we did agree that there is a room for not only common thinking upon all these issues, but also reinforcing our action-oriented partnership in counterterrorism and in promoting just and fair solutions to all these issues that we have in mind and which have been mentioned during this discussion. So the sky is the limit. I mean, our bilateral relations from Shell Gas now, which is something new on the agenda to promoting our cooperation in the area of defense and security, but also an American school opening its doors in Algeria. It's reopening its doors in Algeria, signaling that the perception in the States is that situation in Algeria is back to normal. So many issues, very concrete issues, but obviously the focus is on the crisis that we have been discussing on Libya, what to do concretely in the near future, because time is of the essence on Mali, what contribution the U.S. can bring to push forward the process. We enjoy good support from the U.S. from the security council in general. We need them to be seen as encouraging or pushing the parties to be more flexible and more ready to compromise on the number of issues. Obviously on Palestinian issue, we appreciated highly the efforts made by Secretary Kerry and we deeply regret that those efforts have not been crowned with the success that they deserve. And we do hope that such an effort will be resumed at a certain point and the sooner the better. So, of course, Iraq, Syria definitely are high on the agenda and we develop very candidly with our American friends, our vision, which perhaps is broader than what we generally hear about. It's not the kind of Maniki approach that you usually see in some places. Ours is more nuanced and it tends to take on board some key factors that were forgotten not long ago and which have produced the foreseen effects that we were talking about not long ago, three years ago about Iraq, about Libya. We have had a chance to warn some of our partners about the consequences of some ways of terminating the crisis instead of building on a peaceful and inclusive transition. In both cases, I believe the other options have been taken. As far as Syria is concerned, we continue to believe that some peaceful and inclusive transition is possible and some dialogue with everybody in charge should be contemplated. So there is a variety of issues that we try to bring our friends and partners to address thinking outside the books. Amal Moudalleli, it's very good to see you on Washington, your Excellency. My question is to the last, I mean follow up on the last question on Syria. The Congress yesterday approved helping and equipping the rebels in Syria and the president announced a strategy to defeat ISIS or ISIL. I was wondering what you think of that strategy. Do you think the coalition that has been assembled will be able to defeat ISIS? And is this the right way to go to solve the problem? Thank you. Well, as far as the so-called ISIS, I believe that the coalition, I mean the Iraqi government seeking support of a coalition and the regional countries also playing an active role alongside the U.S. and others can be considered as quite natural, giving the magnitude of the threat. Then the emergency of some of the measures that need to be applied to stop the overwhelming move of the military units of ISIS towards some strategic places in Iraq. So I don't think that no one would question the timeliness or the necessity of a measure of military use because without such level of military use, the situation can get out of hands. Now, whether that would be enough to defeat ISIS is another question. And we tend to believe that it needs to be supported by a more comprehensive set of measures. Other steps need to be taken. They can be moral, religious in nature. I think our clerics have a role to play, moderate clerics to help. I think some governance-related issues in both countries should also be addressed very seriously. Again, majority is legally titled to implement policies, but I think legitimacy requires also to listen to the minority, especially when you get out of a crisis, when you live in a situation in which democratic pluralism has not yet taken roots. So I believe that it's important to satisfy some legitimate aspirations and requirements of the minorities in all, in the countries that you mentioned. As a longtime partner of the United States, you've talked about Algeria's role as a mediator in a number of conflicts. What advice would you give the Obama administration, which has been criticized by people here for not knowing how to build coalitions, not knowing how to lead, being out of position? You are in the region, you are in the midst of all these conflicts. Here you are in Washington. What does the administration need to do? How does it need to focus? How does it build this coalition to deal with the ideology, deal with the governance? I think they sort of know the headings, but as a friend, what would your advice be for here's how to lead? I think the advice has always been to listen to us, and I think that has started to happen. We are being listened to, so that's promising. And I'm listening. Well, I mean, a certain degree of discretion is useful if you want to have an impact on the administration, as you know. I do. That's your final answer. Okay. Karim. Hi, Karim Mizran. I'm a senior fellow for North Africa, the Atlantic Council. Thank you very much for the frankness of your intervention, Mr. Minister. My question in particular regards what is going to happen and what your position will be now in the next meeting that you said is going to happen in New York regarding Libya. We know that the House of Representatives have defined the Operation Fajr, the Operation Dawn, and Libya as terrorists and as enemies of the state. Are you going to advocate a position that on the other hand forces or pushes the House of Representatives in Libya and the international community to include in the negotiations the authorities in Tripoli, the Operation Dawn or the Misradi into a future negotiation? And second, you have taken a strong position regarding foreign intervention. Now we have seen this continuous bombing by strange airplanes against Fajr-Dibya positions. The Americans say that that's come from the Emirates planes and coming from Egyptian bases. What is your position in that case? How strong will you advocate the non-intervention into the country? Thank you very much. On the last portion of your question, I would be very surprised if those countries involved in the bombing would not find their place around the table next week in New York. So I believe that they will be there and Secretary Kerry has certainly launched an invitation to them and so they will be there ready to contribute I think in a spirit of resolving the problem, not escalating it. As far as Algeria is concerned, we stand firmly with those who believe that there is room for dialogue. Exclusion has never been a good recipe for success. Of course, it is one of the problems to identify the people who are willing to dialogue and to then have an impact on their respective camps. We think that we have been interacting recently with a number of them as neighboring countries, bilaterally also as Algeria. And it is quite possible to have not necessarily everybody that has a gun in Libya, but some people who can have an influence, moderating influence on the militias and other armed groups with the exclusion of those who exclude themselves, those who are affiliated to Al Qaeda or to Daesh or those nobody wants to invite them anywhere, at least not to any civilized place. They can be invited to jail if they are ready to go in, except for those people, I believe, everybody else, including the former Qaddafists who are here and there. Some of them also have been playing military role recently. Others are ready for a political role, so those people should be participating alongside the Liberals and the Islamists. I think it's quite important. I think we're all just in awe of the variety of things you have in your plate, and maybe this is just sympathy saying you should get a rest, because next week is going to be brutal. You've told us about all the meetings, and you told us everybody's going to be listening, which is a nice change, which means you have to think about what you're going to say. Thank you very much for coming and spending time to visit us. We hope to see you back, and we hope to talk about some successes you've had in the last year. Thank you very much.